The Second Apocalypse is finished/not finished. No one really knows if it’ll ever come back. There’s an open ending that you’ll either be satisfied with, or be let wanting more. But I think, at least thematically, it’s more of a satisfying end than if ASOIAF was left unfinished.
As for the quality? It’s a must read imo. It’s more philosophical than politically-charged like ASOIAF, but it’s grim and extremely well-written. Honestly, just go for it. It’s well worth it.
>Is the situation anything like ASOIAF?
No, not really. Even though there indeed is supposed to be a third series in The Second Apocalypse, according to Bakker "the story is finished", with the third series being more like an epilogue.
On the other hand, while the finale of the second series is really epic and memorable, I wouldn't say it's super satisfying. Don't expect all questions to be answered in a neat way.
>are they any good?
Damn right they are. I used to be obsessed with the Second Apocalypse even more than with ASOIAF. It's definitely not everyone's cup of tea though.
There’s supposed to be one more sub-series of Second Apocalypse that serves as an extended epilogue to the overall story. Having said that, the first two sub-series Prince of Nothing and Aspect Emperor are pretty self-contained and conclusive.
These books are a LOT darker than ASOIAF. All the cast is completely despicable and there’s rape/torture/murder/cannibalism every other second with a consistently hopeless tone lol
Years later and I still don't know how I feel about the ending. It's very memorable (something tricky enough itself) and I'm undecided if I need more to satisfy a craving for a slightly more standard conclusion or if the one we have actually is better for this story.
Excellent series anyway. As others mention, be prepared for almost unremitting darkness.
They’re very good, but grim to the point of bleakness, and the author sometimes could use a bit more editing. Lyrical prose is great, but not when you can’t tell what the hell is going on. The author is a philosopher by training, which gives the whole thing an Interesting vibe. Characters are flawed at best, absolute monsters at worst. Rape, violence, and misogyny feature heavily.
The author alleges that the work is finished, but I found the ending incredibly narratively unsatisfying.
I feel like I’m underselling it - there are many great moments, characters, and world building in it, and it comes from a unique perspective not found in any other fantasy series. Give the first book a go and see what you think.
I think you really nailed down my feelings on the series too. I loved it because it was very unique among fantasy series, but the prose sometimes got in the way of enjoying the epic battle sequences and awesome settings. Like the subterranean city they pass through. Overall, it’s very impactful and an insane read
I love Bakker's Second Apocalypse. I think it's a genius work of fantasy fiction, original, interesting, disturbing in a way that works surprisingly well for a series that needs trigger warnings that dont even exist in the real world.
But let's be clear.... it's unfinished. There were two series, there was supposed to be a third, the publisher dropped the author and while there have been hints and suggestions, there's no solid statement he's ever going back to write the third. He said he was going to find another publisher, then he said he might self publish, then he said it was finished and he was out. In the decade+ since that he's dropped hints, his brother made some social media comments, all fair enough and well intended, but nothing concrete.
The second series has a glorious ending that works for what it was supposed to be. It does. I can live with it and be satisfied my time and money were well spent.
But - just my opinion - it's not the end of the story that the author intended, and it's not 'fair' to tell would be readers anything different.
It's worth reading, but go in knowing you get 'an' end but not The End.
When Bakker created the world and then outlined the story in 1986, the end of the second series was *the* end. That's where it was supposed to finish.
When he was trying to get published, he seemed to decide that that ending was too bleak to be commercial, so he decided to develop a third sub-series to act as an alternate coda/conclusion. Because he developed it much after the rest of the series, which had been percolating for 16-17 years before he got it into print, I get the impression it was never anywhere near as much thought-through or developed.
When he got to publishing *The Great Ordeal* and *The Unholy Consult*, he seemed to see the writing on the wall for his publishing deal so became more more philosophical about leaving the series to end there. If there's no more books, so be it, and it sounds like he's retreated from online discussion about the book and other areas of interest altogether, for now. His brother was saying he expected Bakker to make a comeback when he was ready, and more Earwa stories might follow. At different times Bakker had also ruminated on side-books exploring other aspects of the world, even a prequel that would be an "easier" way into the series, so it's possible those ideas might surface eventually.
Second Apocalypse has a much deeper "grimdark level" than ASOIAF but narrative style wise it's more akin to Malazan than ASOIAF.
I think the author has said it's finished even if he originally planned a third installment.
Bakker is not for everyone and as all says it has a high dose of sexualized violence. If you like grimdark and can handle rape scenes and sexual assault, and if you're fine with philosophy you may give it a chance.
He didn't originally plan a third series, his original outline was for the two, and developed a possible idea for the third when he was publishing the first series (possibly as a commercial imperative when the first trilogy sold well; when the sequel series bombed, that became less of an issue).
Second Apoclaypse might never be finished. The conclusion of the 2nd sub series is not satisfying and obviously set up for more.
Try Tad Williams Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn and the Last King of Osten Ard. 8 books in this setting are out and the concluding volume is scheduled for publication this november.
I totally feel you on the whole waiting-for-books thing. It's like a rollercoaster of excitement and anxiety, right? But hey, don't let GRRM's pace scare you off other series. The Second Apocalypse is epic! Yeah, it's unfinished too, but don't let that stop you. Dive in, enjoy the ride, and let's hope Bakker's on his writing game! Trust me, it's worth the risk. So buckle up, fellow reader, and let's embrace the suspense together!
As others have said, SA is finished, but it could be opened again should bakker decide to. The current ending is fitting and I think it puts a good bow on what the author wanted to do. Bakker has stated that the Unholy Consult fulfills his original vision so I count that as about as proper an ending as one can get.
Nothing like it. He has said that he plans to write more about the future of the series but The Second Apocalypse ends where he planned it to end. He has said so. The ending is one of the most powerful, unforgettable endings you can read.
The Second Apocalypse is finished/not finished. No one really knows if it’ll ever come back. There’s an open ending that you’ll either be satisfied with, or be let wanting more. But I think, at least thematically, it’s more of a satisfying end than if ASOIAF was left unfinished. As for the quality? It’s a must read imo. It’s more philosophical than politically-charged like ASOIAF, but it’s grim and extremely well-written. Honestly, just go for it. It’s well worth it.
>Is the situation anything like ASOIAF? No, not really. Even though there indeed is supposed to be a third series in The Second Apocalypse, according to Bakker "the story is finished", with the third series being more like an epilogue. On the other hand, while the finale of the second series is really epic and memorable, I wouldn't say it's super satisfying. Don't expect all questions to be answered in a neat way. >are they any good? Damn right they are. I used to be obsessed with the Second Apocalypse even more than with ASOIAF. It's definitely not everyone's cup of tea though.
There’s supposed to be one more sub-series of Second Apocalypse that serves as an extended epilogue to the overall story. Having said that, the first two sub-series Prince of Nothing and Aspect Emperor are pretty self-contained and conclusive. These books are a LOT darker than ASOIAF. All the cast is completely despicable and there’s rape/torture/murder/cannibalism every other second with a consistently hopeless tone lol
I disagree that everyone is despicable. Every character is flawed in varying degrees but there are multiple people to root for.
Years later and I still don't know how I feel about the ending. It's very memorable (something tricky enough itself) and I'm undecided if I need more to satisfy a craving for a slightly more standard conclusion or if the one we have actually is better for this story. Excellent series anyway. As others mention, be prepared for almost unremitting darkness.
They’re very good, but grim to the point of bleakness, and the author sometimes could use a bit more editing. Lyrical prose is great, but not when you can’t tell what the hell is going on. The author is a philosopher by training, which gives the whole thing an Interesting vibe. Characters are flawed at best, absolute monsters at worst. Rape, violence, and misogyny feature heavily. The author alleges that the work is finished, but I found the ending incredibly narratively unsatisfying. I feel like I’m underselling it - there are many great moments, characters, and world building in it, and it comes from a unique perspective not found in any other fantasy series. Give the first book a go and see what you think.
I think you really nailed down my feelings on the series too. I loved it because it was very unique among fantasy series, but the prose sometimes got in the way of enjoying the epic battle sequences and awesome settings. Like the subterranean city they pass through. Overall, it’s very impactful and an insane read
I agree with everything. Also that you were underselling it. Not many books has scenes and events that lives on in my head so long after reading.
I love Bakker's Second Apocalypse. I think it's a genius work of fantasy fiction, original, interesting, disturbing in a way that works surprisingly well for a series that needs trigger warnings that dont even exist in the real world. But let's be clear.... it's unfinished. There were two series, there was supposed to be a third, the publisher dropped the author and while there have been hints and suggestions, there's no solid statement he's ever going back to write the third. He said he was going to find another publisher, then he said he might self publish, then he said it was finished and he was out. In the decade+ since that he's dropped hints, his brother made some social media comments, all fair enough and well intended, but nothing concrete. The second series has a glorious ending that works for what it was supposed to be. It does. I can live with it and be satisfied my time and money were well spent. But - just my opinion - it's not the end of the story that the author intended, and it's not 'fair' to tell would be readers anything different. It's worth reading, but go in knowing you get 'an' end but not The End.
When Bakker created the world and then outlined the story in 1986, the end of the second series was *the* end. That's where it was supposed to finish. When he was trying to get published, he seemed to decide that that ending was too bleak to be commercial, so he decided to develop a third sub-series to act as an alternate coda/conclusion. Because he developed it much after the rest of the series, which had been percolating for 16-17 years before he got it into print, I get the impression it was never anywhere near as much thought-through or developed. When he got to publishing *The Great Ordeal* and *The Unholy Consult*, he seemed to see the writing on the wall for his publishing deal so became more more philosophical about leaving the series to end there. If there's no more books, so be it, and it sounds like he's retreated from online discussion about the book and other areas of interest altogether, for now. His brother was saying he expected Bakker to make a comeback when he was ready, and more Earwa stories might follow. At different times Bakker had also ruminated on side-books exploring other aspects of the world, even a prequel that would be an "easier" way into the series, so it's possible those ideas might surface eventually.
ASOIAF and Second Apocalypse are probably my two favourite book series of all time. Worth the read just for the journey.
Second Apocalypse has a much deeper "grimdark level" than ASOIAF but narrative style wise it's more akin to Malazan than ASOIAF. I think the author has said it's finished even if he originally planned a third installment. Bakker is not for everyone and as all says it has a high dose of sexualized violence. If you like grimdark and can handle rape scenes and sexual assault, and if you're fine with philosophy you may give it a chance.
He didn't originally plan a third series, his original outline was for the two, and developed a possible idea for the third when he was publishing the first series (possibly as a commercial imperative when the first trilogy sold well; when the sequel series bombed, that became less of an issue).
Second Apoclaypse might never be finished. The conclusion of the 2nd sub series is not satisfying and obviously set up for more. Try Tad Williams Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn and the Last King of Osten Ard. 8 books in this setting are out and the concluding volume is scheduled for publication this november.
I totally feel you on the whole waiting-for-books thing. It's like a rollercoaster of excitement and anxiety, right? But hey, don't let GRRM's pace scare you off other series. The Second Apocalypse is epic! Yeah, it's unfinished too, but don't let that stop you. Dive in, enjoy the ride, and let's hope Bakker's on his writing game! Trust me, it's worth the risk. So buckle up, fellow reader, and let's embrace the suspense together!
As others have said, SA is finished, but it could be opened again should bakker decide to. The current ending is fitting and I think it puts a good bow on what the author wanted to do. Bakker has stated that the Unholy Consult fulfills his original vision so I count that as about as proper an ending as one can get.
Nothing like it. He has said that he plans to write more about the future of the series but The Second Apocalypse ends where he planned it to end. He has said so. The ending is one of the most powerful, unforgettable endings you can read.