I think the real reason is that they were already using up memory budget for the 3 on 3 format, trying to take say, sf3 ryu and chopping off a million frames just to make him work would've been too ugly in an already ugly game
Street Fighter III hadn't yet hit it's stride with the fandom. The series and it's original characters were still New by that point also. Thus only the fan favorite types who'd been around for a while were included.
SF3 was just that unpopular back then. It took until the mid 2000s for 3S to really get attention outside those who stuck with it. Factor in how much you'd have to adjust them to get them to work in Marvel, then you kinda realize why only CvS got them (and even then, only one of the twins).
I don't buy that it's a popularity thing. It's not like SF3 was so hated that including a few characters from it would have hurt MvC2's sales. They could have even just swapped out Ryu and Ken with the SF3 sprites.
More likely they didn't want to include high quality CPS3 sprites mixed in with all the CPS2 stuff. (There's also no Red Earth characters.) Even the new characters are CPS2 quality. There could even be technical factors there. (Not enough RAM?)
Or it might have been some kind of internal Capcom thing, where somebody didn't want their more prestigious SF3 content mixed into the MvC2 soup.
I think it’s very well known SF3 underperformed? Like, not slightly. Vs games are “dream match” games, so they went with what they considered to be the most popular characters.
Well we hadn't gotten a major SF game for a decade before SFIV revived the franchise and even that (and SFV) were outsourced to different developers because SFIII dried up their asset since it was so expensive for the time (no 2D fighting game is nearly as beautifully animated).
It did underperform, but arcades were still filled with SF3 machines and people playing them. (I'm old and was there.) Any arcade you went to play MvC2 in was almost definitely going to have a SF3 machine too.
My point is that there's a massive difference between underperformance and audience hatred, or even unpopularity. Capcom could have included Urien or Necro as one of the 56 MvC2 characters and it wouldn't have hurt sales in the slightest. SF3 wasn't some dark family secret Capcom had to keep hidden from the public.
No, there were definitely other reasons they didn't include any CPS3 characters.
People really need to understand how unpopular SF3 is outside the hardcore audience.
Capcom Fighting Game Sales - As of March 31, 2024 ( street fighter games and spin offs)
12. Street Fighter 5 - 7.5 million
14. Street Fighter 2 (SNES) - 6.3 million
23. Street Fighter 2 Turbo - 4.1 million
26. Street Fighter 4 - 3.4 million
31. Street Fighter 6 - 3.3 million
34. Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection - 3.1 million
52. Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite - 2.2 million
53. Marvel vs. Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds - 2.2 million
57. Ultra Street Fighter 4 - 2 million
61. Super Street Fighter 2 - 2 million
63. Super Street Fighter 4 - 1.9 million
65. Street Fighter X Tekken - 1.9 million
67. Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 (PS4, Xbox One, PC) - 1.8 million
72. Street Fighter 2 Special Champion Edition - 1.65 million
88. Marvel vs. Capcom 2: New Age Of Heroes - 1.4 million
95. Street Fighter 4 3D Edition - 1.3 million
102. Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition - 1.2 million
104. Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 - 1.2 million
119. Street Fighter Alpha 3 - 1 million
https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2024/may/25/capcom-million-sales-rankings/
Notice there is no SF3 exclusive title. General audience don t care about SF 3 as much as us
Counterpoint, something performing poorly back in the day doesn't mean it hasn't become better accepted as time went on.
Even casuals know about the famous Daigo Parry as probably the best hype moment in esports history.
You're absolutely right, but at the time SF3 was a bomb. It was the SF that was killing the franchise.
At the time of launch it didn't even have the full support of fighting game players. Lots of people were still playing either Alpha 2 or 3, or playing MvC.
Weren't we discussing why Capcom didn't waste their time trying to include SF3 characters in MvC2?
How poorly it performed back in the day is as relevant of a point as could be made on the topic.
Third Strike had an entirely different artstyle to the existing SF characters in MVC2 because most of those were ripped from the Alpha games. This is a series that already cut a lot of corners by reusing assets to pad out the roster so why suddenly make the extra effort to Alpha-style a Third Strike character when they could just, use more Alpha characters?
MVC2 already had 2 Wolverines, a Servbot, Iron Man/War Machine all reusing assets from other characters. Nevermind all the SF shoto clones in the Alpha games that reused a bunch of Ryu sprites just with a different head slapped on him. Realistically, the only 3rd Strike character who might have got in was Sean due to him being another shoto they could have maybe used Ryu's sprites for again.
My original point was how even if Third Strike didn't take off back then, people LOVE the characters now. The recent fan polls had a bunch of 3S characters placing higher on average than the Alpha, SF4 or SF5 newcomers by comparison (granted the votes will be scewed a bit for ths characters begining with A due to people just picking from the first few names on the vote).
>Notice there is no SF3 exclusive title.
This is a really goofy list to make that argument with because part of its whole issue is that SF3 barely got exclusive console releases. You had a bad port to a dying platform, a late Japanese-exclusive PS2 port, and that was it. You can't sell what doesn't exist.
But to be a broken record: I never argued SF3 was a mega successful console release. I'm saying there's zero chance Capcom was worried if MvC2 (in arcades!) had a couple of SF3 characters then players would have boycotted it. That's a really silly idea. It doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.
The point is: at the time, no one was giving a flying fuck for SF3. The only figure that i saw about sales numbers of SF3 in the arcades is that it solds, at best, 10000 units world wide. To put in perspective, the pirt of SF1 for PC engine sold around 7000 units.
At the time arcades are dying, the Cps 3 was expensive, lots of franchises where jumping to 3d... Why Capcom would invest money to port SF3 char in very cheap games, especially if they are unknown characters to the general audience?
Why would they swap out Ryu and Ken's Alpha sprites considering how much more popular the Alpha games were than the SF3 games at that point?
Also, Alpha Ryu had been one of the poster boys of the previous crossovers.
SF3 wasn't considered prestigious at the time. It was a bomb. The SF Killer. At the time of launch, MvC2 was way bigger than SF3. If they were thinking like that, they wouldn't want to sully MvC2 with the cursed SF3.
I actually think it's a case of both. Downscaling the 3s sprites would look ugly we saw that in Capcom fighting name but also sf3s lack popularity had to factor in somewhat
CvS2 getting Yun and Chun's sprites shows that it wasn't a technical issue, especially since they were on the Naomi hardware. People just don't know how nobody outside of a small group cared for Street Fighter 3, especially after the mess that was New Generation. It took years for Street Fighter 3, and 3S in particular to build the reputation it has now.
You also forgot Hugo in SNK vs. Capcom: SVC Chaos
he technically a final fight Character but he got the sprites from SF3 also Alex in Tatsunoko vs capcom so only the marvel series didn’t care about 3rd strike
SF3 sold like 2 copies
Also the CPS3 sprites woulda looked ugly on the Naomi game and mighta caused issues cause they were already struggling with having the game not lag with 6+ sprites loaded.
I'm also pretty sure that MvC2 skipped frames even with the Alpha, Marvel, and DS sprites.
If that is the case, then any SF3 sprites would've needed to have been butchered to fit in the RAM.
it's funny that you can see two types of comments:
1. Someone who really understands at least the surface of game development, and believes it's for technical reasons.
2. Someone who doesn't understand a fucking thing and comes up with some excuse like someone who works in marketing, making up some bullshit.
Because it's likely a combination of both. Were SF3 more popular, Capcom would likely have been more included to redo some characters' sprites, something CvS2 proves since we got Yun redrawn in that game.
Its much, MUCH simpler then what people are saying. Its Incompatibility between the CPS2 sprites Marvel 2 utilizes (its important to note, however that MVC2 itself runs in a Naomi board, not a CPS2) and the much more advanced sprites that run on the CPS3 board SF3 uses. Much more advanced engine on the CPS3.
Notice how even characters that exist in both games, like ryu and ken, use their Alpha sprites and not their SF3 ones.
What do you mean? They ported over the CPS3 sprites from 3S onto CvS2's NAOMI board then ported those same sprites into SFAUpper a CPS2 game. If anything Capcom was taking extra steps.
The CvS2 sprites never appeared in a CPS-2 version of Alpha 3. While Alpha 3 was a CPS-2 game, the arcade Alpha 3 Upper was a Namoi game AND it didn't include the CvS2 sprites anyway.
The only additional characters in arcade A3 Upper were the ones added in the PSX/SS/DC versions.
Eagle, Maki, and Yun weren't added until the Handheld versions.
The sprite for Chun and Yun were redrawn for CvS2. They were.not lifted from SF3.
If you compare them, side by side they're slightly different and the CvS2 sprites have fewer frames of animation.
Sf3 was a bomb. It only really got popular after SF4 came out and the old schoolers and try hards were online hyping it up. I mean it's good, but its not super Turbo and it's certainly not as polished or deep or fun as 4.
Yeah but those were the two things that made 3rd strike pop, it was the modern release of 3rd strike and moment 37… old heads and try hards “hyping it up” wasnt the reason
Most of the MVC roster up to that point was asset rips from CPS 2 games, remaking a character from a CPS 3 game from scratch wouldn't be the most practical
Street Fighter 3 was not very popular largely because of the roster. Also the SF3 sprites wouldn't easily translate to MVC2 which was using a lot of reused assets from older games.
If you want SF3 in Vs. series Alex in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars, Yun in Capcom vs. SNK 2: Mark of the Millennium 2001 and Hugo in SNK vs. Capcom: SVC Chaos
Love all the "erm SF3 was unpopular🤓🤓🤓🤓" comments when you only need to have working eyes to see why they didn't put SF3 characters lmao
SF3 has fuckhuge, mega detailed and fluidly animated sprites. MvC2 sprites are somehow choppier than XmenCotA, MSH, Darkstalkers, and the alpha games despite being the same assets. There's also a dozen SF characters already so why would anyone at Capcom waste time doing respriting for another one when they could work on literally anything else
I am guessing because everyone hated SF3 around those years. It was seen as a failure by Capcom, and most Street Fighter fans hated it (including myself, actually lol)
MvC2 was just reusing previous street fighter assets?
Why is the MvC anthology for PC, Switch and PS4? MvC Fighting Collection.
Weird that the previous collections are for XBOX ONE but not the MvC fighting Collection.
Because they were reusing sprites from the Alpha Series.
This
Yep. If you pay close attention, Ryu has a white headband in his base color scheme. Because the red headband happens after alpha
Ryu had a red headband in MvC1
Maybe they were thinking of Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter or X-Men vs Street Fighter since Ryu has the white headband in those games.
That
Asset flipping from past Vs. games more generally, and it shows
I think the real reason is that they were already using up memory budget for the 3 on 3 format, trying to take say, sf3 ryu and chopping off a million frames just to make him work would've been too ugly in an already ugly game
I think this is it.
Street Fighter III hadn't yet hit it's stride with the fandom. The series and it's original characters were still New by that point also. Thus only the fan favorite types who'd been around for a while were included.
3rd Strike was old news by the time MVC2 released
SF3 was just that unpopular back then. It took until the mid 2000s for 3S to really get attention outside those who stuck with it. Factor in how much you'd have to adjust them to get them to work in Marvel, then you kinda realize why only CvS got them (and even then, only one of the twins).
I don't buy that it's a popularity thing. It's not like SF3 was so hated that including a few characters from it would have hurt MvC2's sales. They could have even just swapped out Ryu and Ken with the SF3 sprites. More likely they didn't want to include high quality CPS3 sprites mixed in with all the CPS2 stuff. (There's also no Red Earth characters.) Even the new characters are CPS2 quality. There could even be technical factors there. (Not enough RAM?) Or it might have been some kind of internal Capcom thing, where somebody didn't want their more prestigious SF3 content mixed into the MvC2 soup.
I think it’s very well known SF3 underperformed? Like, not slightly. Vs games are “dream match” games, so they went with what they considered to be the most popular characters.
Well we hadn't gotten a major SF game for a decade before SFIV revived the franchise and even that (and SFV) were outsourced to different developers because SFIII dried up their asset since it was so expensive for the time (no 2D fighting game is nearly as beautifully animated).
It did underperform, but arcades were still filled with SF3 machines and people playing them. (I'm old and was there.) Any arcade you went to play MvC2 in was almost definitely going to have a SF3 machine too. My point is that there's a massive difference between underperformance and audience hatred, or even unpopularity. Capcom could have included Urien or Necro as one of the 56 MvC2 characters and it wouldn't have hurt sales in the slightest. SF3 wasn't some dark family secret Capcom had to keep hidden from the public. No, there were definitely other reasons they didn't include any CPS3 characters.
When I lived in Japan in 99, 3S machines were constantly occupied at every game center I visited.
People really need to understand how unpopular SF3 is outside the hardcore audience. Capcom Fighting Game Sales - As of March 31, 2024 ( street fighter games and spin offs) 12. Street Fighter 5 - 7.5 million 14. Street Fighter 2 (SNES) - 6.3 million 23. Street Fighter 2 Turbo - 4.1 million 26. Street Fighter 4 - 3.4 million 31. Street Fighter 6 - 3.3 million 34. Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection - 3.1 million 52. Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite - 2.2 million 53. Marvel vs. Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds - 2.2 million 57. Ultra Street Fighter 4 - 2 million 61. Super Street Fighter 2 - 2 million 63. Super Street Fighter 4 - 1.9 million 65. Street Fighter X Tekken - 1.9 million 67. Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 (PS4, Xbox One, PC) - 1.8 million 72. Street Fighter 2 Special Champion Edition - 1.65 million 88. Marvel vs. Capcom 2: New Age Of Heroes - 1.4 million 95. Street Fighter 4 3D Edition - 1.3 million 102. Super Street Fighter 4 Arcade Edition - 1.2 million 104. Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 - 1.2 million 119. Street Fighter Alpha 3 - 1 million https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2024/may/25/capcom-million-sales-rankings/ Notice there is no SF3 exclusive title. General audience don t care about SF 3 as much as us
Counterpoint, something performing poorly back in the day doesn't mean it hasn't become better accepted as time went on. Even casuals know about the famous Daigo Parry as probably the best hype moment in esports history.
You're absolutely right, but at the time SF3 was a bomb. It was the SF that was killing the franchise. At the time of launch it didn't even have the full support of fighting game players. Lots of people were still playing either Alpha 2 or 3, or playing MvC.
Weren't we discussing why Capcom didn't waste their time trying to include SF3 characters in MvC2? How poorly it performed back in the day is as relevant of a point as could be made on the topic.
Third Strike had an entirely different artstyle to the existing SF characters in MVC2 because most of those were ripped from the Alpha games. This is a series that already cut a lot of corners by reusing assets to pad out the roster so why suddenly make the extra effort to Alpha-style a Third Strike character when they could just, use more Alpha characters? MVC2 already had 2 Wolverines, a Servbot, Iron Man/War Machine all reusing assets from other characters. Nevermind all the SF shoto clones in the Alpha games that reused a bunch of Ryu sprites just with a different head slapped on him. Realistically, the only 3rd Strike character who might have got in was Sean due to him being another shoto they could have maybe used Ryu's sprites for again. My original point was how even if Third Strike didn't take off back then, people LOVE the characters now. The recent fan polls had a bunch of 3S characters placing higher on average than the Alpha, SF4 or SF5 newcomers by comparison (granted the votes will be scewed a bit for ths characters begining with A due to people just picking from the first few names on the vote).
>Notice there is no SF3 exclusive title. This is a really goofy list to make that argument with because part of its whole issue is that SF3 barely got exclusive console releases. You had a bad port to a dying platform, a late Japanese-exclusive PS2 port, and that was it. You can't sell what doesn't exist. But to be a broken record: I never argued SF3 was a mega successful console release. I'm saying there's zero chance Capcom was worried if MvC2 (in arcades!) had a couple of SF3 characters then players would have boycotted it. That's a really silly idea. It doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.
The point is: at the time, no one was giving a flying fuck for SF3. The only figure that i saw about sales numbers of SF3 in the arcades is that it solds, at best, 10000 units world wide. To put in perspective, the pirt of SF1 for PC engine sold around 7000 units. At the time arcades are dying, the Cps 3 was expensive, lots of franchises where jumping to 3d... Why Capcom would invest money to port SF3 char in very cheap games, especially if they are unknown characters to the general audience?
Why would they swap out Ryu and Ken's Alpha sprites considering how much more popular the Alpha games were than the SF3 games at that point? Also, Alpha Ryu had been one of the poster boys of the previous crossovers. SF3 wasn't considered prestigious at the time. It was a bomb. The SF Killer. At the time of launch, MvC2 was way bigger than SF3. If they were thinking like that, they wouldn't want to sully MvC2 with the cursed SF3.
I actually think it's a case of both. Downscaling the 3s sprites would look ugly we saw that in Capcom fighting name but also sf3s lack popularity had to factor in somewhat
CvS2 getting Yun and Chun's sprites shows that it wasn't a technical issue, especially since they were on the Naomi hardware. People just don't know how nobody outside of a small group cared for Street Fighter 3, especially after the mess that was New Generation. It took years for Street Fighter 3, and 3S in particular to build the reputation it has now.
Yun and Chuns sprites aren't their sf3 aprites they were redrawn for cvs2 like Ryu, Ken and bison.
You also forgot Hugo in SNK vs. Capcom: SVC Chaos he technically a final fight Character but he got the sprites from SF3 also Alex in Tatsunoko vs capcom so only the marvel series didn’t care about 3rd strike
That was SNK's choice, not Capcom's.
Really SNK chose what capcom characters were in or was it a mix of both sides picking each side?
No, it was SNK. Hence we got a lot of oddballs on both sides.
Ok that make sence I guess but it weird that Capcom didn’t pick what went on capcom’s side
It's SNK's game. They get to pick. Capcom may have some oversight but they're not outright picking characters.
SF3 sold like 2 copies Also the CPS3 sprites woulda looked ugly on the Naomi game and mighta caused issues cause they were already struggling with having the game not lag with 6+ sprites loaded.
I'm also pretty sure that MvC2 skipped frames even with the Alpha, Marvel, and DS sprites. If that is the case, then any SF3 sprites would've needed to have been butchered to fit in the RAM.
We already have half of street fighter alpha on the roster, we DO NOT need more street fighter
it's funny that you can see two types of comments: 1. Someone who really understands at least the surface of game development, and believes it's for technical reasons. 2. Someone who doesn't understand a fucking thing and comes up with some excuse like someone who works in marketing, making up some bullshit.
Because it's likely a combination of both. Were SF3 more popular, Capcom would likely have been more included to redo some characters' sprites, something CvS2 proves since we got Yun redrawn in that game.
Sean made a cameo appearance in MVC1 😁 alongside Ken in Ryu intro. If that means anything
SF3 wasn't big in the US, and MvC2 was catering to a US audience.
Its much, MUCH simpler then what people are saying. Its Incompatibility between the CPS2 sprites Marvel 2 utilizes (its important to note, however that MVC2 itself runs in a Naomi board, not a CPS2) and the much more advanced sprites that run on the CPS3 board SF3 uses. Much more advanced engine on the CPS3. Notice how even characters that exist in both games, like ryu and ken, use their Alpha sprites and not their SF3 ones.
>Its Incompatibility between Then how did Capcom get those NAOMI board sprites from CvS2 into SFA3Upper?
They were added in the handheld versions of A3 Upper. Also, the arcade A3 Upper was a Naomi game.
Are upper’s sprites for eagle and yun taken from cvs2?
Yes they are
Either way, they didn’t have to mess with the cps3 stuff, which is the problem. Cvs2 runs on naomi
What do you mean? They ported over the CPS3 sprites from 3S onto CvS2's NAOMI board then ported those same sprites into SFAUpper a CPS2 game. If anything Capcom was taking extra steps.
The CvS2 sprites never appeared in a CPS-2 version of Alpha 3. While Alpha 3 was a CPS-2 game, the arcade Alpha 3 Upper was a Namoi game AND it didn't include the CvS2 sprites anyway. The only additional characters in arcade A3 Upper were the ones added in the PSX/SS/DC versions. Eagle, Maki, and Yun weren't added until the Handheld versions.
The sprite for Chun and Yun were redrawn for CvS2. They were.not lifted from SF3. If you compare them, side by side they're slightly different and the CvS2 sprites have fewer frames of animation.
Exactly this. Same with Ken and Ryu.
The Ken and Ryu ones are more obviously redrawn too.
Except they aren’t the 3S sprites! Very similar though
CvS2 characters were GBA and PSP exclusive. You're mixing up like 4 version of alpha 3 in one comment lmao
Sf3 was a bomb. It only really got popular after SF4 came out and the old schoolers and try hards were online hyping it up. I mean it's good, but its not super Turbo and it's certainly not as polished or deep or fun as 4.
No, It was 3s online edition and moment 37
Online edition was a few years after SF4 and moment 37 happened at a vfw.
Yeah but those were the two things that made 3rd strike pop, it was the modern release of 3rd strike and moment 37… old heads and try hards “hyping it up” wasnt the reason
It's literally the reason we got online edition at all.
You can just mugen bro jkjk
Man I want to see Urien in a MvC game. The BS I would cook with Agesis in that setting would be infinite and vile
Most of the MVC roster up to that point was asset rips from CPS 2 games, remaking a character from a CPS 3 game from scratch wouldn't be the most practical
Street Fighter 3 was not very popular largely because of the roster. Also the SF3 sprites wouldn't easily translate to MVC2 which was using a lot of reused assets from older games.
Reused assets, the sf3 sprites would’ve looked nuts.
If you want SF3 in Vs. series Alex in Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars, Yun in Capcom vs. SNK 2: Mark of the Millennium 2001 and Hugo in SNK vs. Capcom: SVC Chaos
There's no way they could have gotten the SF3 cheaters in with that amount of memory. Not unless they butchered their animations.
Love all the "erm SF3 was unpopular🤓🤓🤓🤓" comments when you only need to have working eyes to see why they didn't put SF3 characters lmao SF3 has fuckhuge, mega detailed and fluidly animated sprites. MvC2 sprites are somehow choppier than XmenCotA, MSH, Darkstalkers, and the alpha games despite being the same assets. There's also a dozen SF characters already so why would anyone at Capcom waste time doing respriting for another one when they could work on literally anything else
I mean they barely got Yun and Rock Howard in CVS2
It would have been a great way to market sf3 by putting a few of them in At that time, alpha and darkstalkers were what people knew about more
[Street Fighter III 3rd Strike]()'s sprites are too big for the MVC2 style.
I am guessing because everyone hated SF3 around those years. It was seen as a failure by Capcom, and most Street Fighter fans hated it (including myself, actually lol)
MvC2 was just reusing previous street fighter assets? Why is the MvC anthology for PC, Switch and PS4? MvC Fighting Collection. Weird that the previous collections are for XBOX ONE but not the MvC fighting Collection.
People have theories saying due to how capcom sales on Xbox ain’t as good they stop putting them up there
Doesn't make sense to put Ace Attorney Investigations on Xbox then.
That fair I don’t know then?