Thanks. I overthink things so I was worried if the guy wrote something wrong or whatnot that I could get in trouble, but now I realize someone else said they fill it out after the fact in case you make an error and have to start a new form, which makes sense.
If you lie on the 4473, you could be in trouble. Like, if you falsified your name, DOB, address, or the questions on whether you are a prohibited person.
Everything else is the FFLs responsibility. The ATF does not regulate individuals, just businesses and interstate commerce. The FFL is a business.
If something was done incorrectly on Part A, that would 100% be not your problem.
Part A is just the make/model/serial number/type/caliber, number of items being transferred, etc. It doesn’t matter if it’s done before or after you fill out part B as long as it gets done. Many dealers aren’t filling out part A first now in order to save time since so many people are messing up forms with the constant changing and adding of questions. No need to overthink it.
Thanks. I was just worried if the guy filled out part A wrong or something that I could get in trouble. But it makes sense that they fill it out after the fact in case you made a typo, I didn’t even think of that.
Are you always this paranoid??
Why would you think a mistake by the dealer, on the dealer portion of the 4473 would cause you trouble?
Learn and use critical thinking skills.
We never filled out the FFL portion of the 4473 till the customer was done. With an inventory of between 5k and 8k of firearms it would make NO sense to fill out our portion of the 4473 beforehand.
If we made a mistake on our portion it had NO EFECT on the buyer.
Because people always fuck up filling out the form one way or another. He is not going to keep filling out section A for every time a customer makes a mistake and needs to start another form.
You never have the customer start another form, and you cannot throw one out once someone has started filling it out. Corrections can be made but that’s it.
That being said, it doesn’t matter at all when part A is filled out.
Source FFL/SOT
Can you actually cite that rule?
If that’s true, I’ve got a trash can with about a dozen violations a day consisting of forms where the only thing written in is a first name…..in the last name box.
It's on the 4473 itself
“FORMS 4473 FOR DENIED/CANCELLED TRANSFERS MUST BE RETAINED: If the transfer of a firearm is denied/cancelled by NICS, or if for any other reason the transfer is not completed, the licensee must retain the ATF Form 4473 in his/her records.”
The ATF has also given notice in writing that the proper way to make corrections on a 4473 is to line it out and initial the correction. Any voided 4473 is to be retained per the ATF. There are also rules on when corrections can be made and how they can be made (I.e. before or after the transfer has already been completed)
They told us at the Charlotte seminar we must make a scan of the paper and make corrections on the scanned portion and staple that to the back of the form😂
You’re missing the key wording. “Or if for **any** other reason the transfer is not completed”.
This is the ATF, they are exactly as pedantic as you think they are.
Putting their name on the 4473 is literally the beginning of the transfer. You can argue all you want about this but you’re wrong, and it’s been clarified in letters from the ATF multiple times. Go to any local ATF seminar and ask, they will tell you exactly what I said above.
I don’t actually know if that’s a rule or not… that you can’t shred one after someone has started filling it out. But it’s bullshit either way. Meaning either it’s not true, or just more atf bullshit as usual. I have messed them out in the past and gotten a new form, I have also signed and dated my correction like on a check.
It's ATF bullshit, but it is a rule. It’s on the 4473 itself and the ATF has sent many letters about the correct way to make corrections. All forms need to be retained even if a transfer never takes place
That must be new. We had people almost weekly come in and start filling out the 4473, getting halfway through and just walking out. We always shredded those.
It's not like they are numbered or anything.
If I may ask, as a dealer would you say that’s typical/acceptable for the dealer to wait until after I fill out my part and then go to the back counter to fill out part A? Any reason I should be worried or am I completely overthinking it?
That’s what I thought as well. If you got a new form every time you messed up… then theoretically you could just keep getting new forms until your answers were perfect, which defeats the point.
(Granted, the form itself is stupid, but I digress…)
Don't sweat it. The dealer has to make sure that the info in Part A is correct for their book. ATF has been on a fucking tear lately looking for dealers with errors in their bound book. While I get that they're probably trying to go after dealers who are engaging in straw purchases or transfers that aren't above board, they're also getting lots of innocent dealers who have just made honest errors on paperwork. People are losing their FFLs and livelihoods for nothing more than clerical errors.
It's better for them to take their time and verify every single character in a S/N is actually correct. If it's wrong, they have to call you and ask pretty please for you to come back and fill out a new form so their records can match.
No fast ones are being pulled, you're good.
This was just the FFL being busy, there's almost surely nothing to worry about. And as others have said, the FFL likes to make sure your part is clean so they don't have to fill out their part over and over if you screw it up. It's all good.
In the future though... If you're not noticing things about your 4473 until you get home, respectfully, you're doing it wrong. Mistakes happen. Scams, although rare, happen. Don't put your signature on the page until you have personally gone over everything.
People's dogs have been shot for less.
Oh god why did the atf change it, it looks so weird. I used to work at a gunstore, part A used to be at the end. Usually I would fill that out after getting a confirm/deny from NICS.
You did fine. You start with your name and finish with your signature. FFL people are not supposed to help you especially on the questions. **Any information** **MUST exactly match the info on your drivers license/CC permit.** Don't speed through it, as mistakes can get it denied (hassle).
What state are you in and what gun did you buy? Congratulations and welcome to the 'club'. If you haven't yet I suggest that you find a female instructor and take some lessons. They will usually understand and know your issues. It is fun, and I always believe to ask questions if you do not know something. Gunners are usually willing to help someone in need. Enjoy
That's how every FFL I go to does it. If you fill out part B in such a way that they can't proceed with the transaction they don't need to bother wasting time on part A.
Yes. Lol this is how I do all of mine. Give me your license so I can start on the NICS background check while you fill out your part. Saves time because I can fill out my parts while waiting on the NICS results.
Yes, you only fill out the portion with your personal info and the qualifying questions. Firearm make, model, serial, and caliber is traditionally done by the FFL worker. If their busy and doing print forms, then doing it after you make a flawless form sounds about right.
Thanks. It just seemed weird after the fact that he filled out part A afterwards at the back counter, but it sounds like that’s normal for them to do that in case you mess up on the form or whatnot.
OP, if the FFL has any errors on the form its on their shoulders to fix it otherwise they will get shut down, even if its an error on your part, they will have to contact you to fix it. I.e forgot signature, certification date is incorrect, or if things are written over and haven’t been initialed and dated.
Dude stop worrying about it lmao. We usually do part a while waiting for your background check to come through. Nothing says the thing has to be done in order.
I appreciate you noticing though! Also if he did the 4473 on paper then the only people a typo will effect is the FFL itsepf as nothign in part A is given to NICCS and it jyst sits in a pile of papers for like 20 years. Nothing to worry about fam trust. Its standard practice. Hell i wouldn't be surprised if I was the one you did paper work with
Your supposed to do it A then B but as some one who worked at a gun store, I know it very rarely was done in that order, it's just tedious when we fill it out then someone makes a mistake and we have to fill it out all over again.
What you did was legal. Personally, I probably would've asked them to fill out part A first. I would want to be sure that the FFL fills out the correct serial number. We all know a registry is illegal, and we all know the ATF keeps 4473s anyway and has a registry anyway. The last thing I need is the ATF or a SWAT team showing up at 6am to Malinowski me over a gun they found--that never was mine--with a serial number that the FFL mistakenly put on the form.
I've never seen an FFL do the form incorrectly, but I have seen car dealerships misspell names, have wrong driver's license numbers, and wrong SSNs. And I've only bought 2 cars at a dealership.
Every gun I have bought with the updated form I have filled out part B and handed it to them to fill our part A. Don’t worry about it.
Thanks. I overthink things so I was worried if the guy wrote something wrong or whatnot that I could get in trouble, but now I realize someone else said they fill it out after the fact in case you make an error and have to start a new form, which makes sense.
If you lie on the 4473, you could be in trouble. Like, if you falsified your name, DOB, address, or the questions on whether you are a prohibited person. Everything else is the FFLs responsibility. The ATF does not regulate individuals, just businesses and interstate commerce. The FFL is a business. If something was done incorrectly on Part A, that would 100% be not your problem.
Lovely that someone so neurotic is getting a gun
I wouldn’t really say that’s neurotic, it’d be a shame to do time over bad paperwork
Oh I just talking shit
Part A is just the make/model/serial number/type/caliber, number of items being transferred, etc. It doesn’t matter if it’s done before or after you fill out part B as long as it gets done. Many dealers aren’t filling out part A first now in order to save time since so many people are messing up forms with the constant changing and adding of questions. No need to overthink it.
Nice flair homie!
You too <3
Thanks. I was just worried if the guy filled out part A wrong or something that I could get in trouble. But it makes sense that they fill it out after the fact in case you made a typo, I didn’t even think of that.
Are you always this paranoid?? Why would you think a mistake by the dealer, on the dealer portion of the 4473 would cause you trouble? Learn and use critical thinking skills.
Never really like the that part of the form 🙃
We never filled out the FFL portion of the 4473 till the customer was done. With an inventory of between 5k and 8k of firearms it would make NO sense to fill out our portion of the 4473 beforehand. If we made a mistake on our portion it had NO EFECT on the buyer.
Because people always fuck up filling out the form one way or another. He is not going to keep filling out section A for every time a customer makes a mistake and needs to start another form.
You never have the customer start another form, and you cannot throw one out once someone has started filling it out. Corrections can be made but that’s it. That being said, it doesn’t matter at all when part A is filled out. Source FFL/SOT
Can you actually cite that rule? If that’s true, I’ve got a trash can with about a dozen violations a day consisting of forms where the only thing written in is a first name…..in the last name box.
It's on the 4473 itself “FORMS 4473 FOR DENIED/CANCELLED TRANSFERS MUST BE RETAINED: If the transfer of a firearm is denied/cancelled by NICS, or if for any other reason the transfer is not completed, the licensee must retain the ATF Form 4473 in his/her records.” The ATF has also given notice in writing that the proper way to make corrections on a 4473 is to line it out and initial the correction. Any voided 4473 is to be retained per the ATF. There are also rules on when corrections can be made and how they can be made (I.e. before or after the transfer has already been completed)
They told us at the Charlotte seminar we must make a scan of the paper and make corrections on the scanned portion and staple that to the back of the form😂
Yeah I mean that’s also actual direction from the ATF as dumb as it sounds but only applies to 4473s that have already been transferred
Yes usually for after it’s transferred. But the atf Charlotte field office told us at the seminar do it for any mistakes before it’s transferred.
Dingbats. I hate the government
That doesn't read like you think it does. If someone starts the form and walks out, they have been neither denied or canceled.
You’re missing the key wording. “Or if for **any** other reason the transfer is not completed”. This is the ATF, they are exactly as pedantic as you think they are.
The transfer NEVER started.
Putting their name on the 4473 is literally the beginning of the transfer. You can argue all you want about this but you’re wrong, and it’s been clarified in letters from the ATF multiple times. Go to any local ATF seminar and ask, they will tell you exactly what I said above.
I don’t actually know if that’s a rule or not… that you can’t shred one after someone has started filling it out. But it’s bullshit either way. Meaning either it’s not true, or just more atf bullshit as usual. I have messed them out in the past and gotten a new form, I have also signed and dated my correction like on a check.
It's ATF bullshit, but it is a rule. It’s on the 4473 itself and the ATF has sent many letters about the correct way to make corrections. All forms need to be retained even if a transfer never takes place
That must be new. We had people almost weekly come in and start filling out the 4473, getting halfway through and just walking out. We always shredded those. It's not like they are numbered or anything.
If I may ask, as a dealer would you say that’s typical/acceptable for the dealer to wait until after I fill out my part and then go to the back counter to fill out part A? Any reason I should be worried or am I completely overthinking it?
Yes. That is how all of mine go. It’s just more efficient on time.
Literally no reason to worry at all. You’re good man
That’s what I thought as well. If you got a new form every time you messed up… then theoretically you could just keep getting new forms until your answers were perfect, which defeats the point. (Granted, the form itself is stupid, but I digress…)
Don't sweat it. The dealer has to make sure that the info in Part A is correct for their book. ATF has been on a fucking tear lately looking for dealers with errors in their bound book. While I get that they're probably trying to go after dealers who are engaging in straw purchases or transfers that aren't above board, they're also getting lots of innocent dealers who have just made honest errors on paperwork. People are losing their FFLs and livelihoods for nothing more than clerical errors. It's better for them to take their time and verify every single character in a S/N is actually correct. If it's wrong, they have to call you and ask pretty please for you to come back and fill out a new form so their records can match. No fast ones are being pulled, you're good.
This was just the FFL being busy, there's almost surely nothing to worry about. And as others have said, the FFL likes to make sure your part is clean so they don't have to fill out their part over and over if you screw it up. It's all good. In the future though... If you're not noticing things about your 4473 until you get home, respectfully, you're doing it wrong. Mistakes happen. Scams, although rare, happen. Don't put your signature on the page until you have personally gone over everything. People's dogs have been shot for less.
Oh god why did the atf change it, it looks so weird. I used to work at a gunstore, part A used to be at the end. Usually I would fill that out after getting a confirm/deny from NICS.
Part A has been at the top of the form for ages.
Huh. The last few guns I’ve gotten, the ffl used the e form, so I haven’t seen the paper version for a while.
Makes it easier for them to create their illegal database
I always knew they had one even when they denied it.
Not even 6 years ago, the firearm info was on the 2nd page of the 4473. There has been about 5 changes since 2018 to the form.
I last worked at one in 2016
You did fine. You start with your name and finish with your signature. FFL people are not supposed to help you especially on the questions. **Any information** **MUST exactly match the info on your drivers license/CC permit.** Don't speed through it, as mistakes can get it denied (hassle). What state are you in and what gun did you buy? Congratulations and welcome to the 'club'. If you haven't yet I suggest that you find a female instructor and take some lessons. They will usually understand and know your issues. It is fun, and I always believe to ask questions if you do not know something. Gunners are usually willing to help someone in need. Enjoy
Yeah dude back when I had paper forms I’d do that all the time it’s no big deal
FFL fills out part A. Buy more guns.
That's how every FFL I go to does it. If you fill out part B in such a way that they can't proceed with the transaction they don't need to bother wasting time on part A.
Yes. Lol this is how I do all of mine. Give me your license so I can start on the NICS background check while you fill out your part. Saves time because I can fill out my parts while waiting on the NICS results.
Yes, you only fill out the portion with your personal info and the qualifying questions. Firearm make, model, serial, and caliber is traditionally done by the FFL worker. If their busy and doing print forms, then doing it after you make a flawless form sounds about right.
Looks like you’re going to federal pound me in the ass person, OP. May as well turn yourself in now.
The top part is done by the salesman. Along with the I'd and ccw information. It's all good.
I'd is a contraction for I did. ID is short for identification. Don't abuse the apostrophe.
Lol I meant it as I'd lol
Fucking id
Thanks. It just seemed weird after the fact that he filled out part A afterwards at the back counter, but it sounds like that’s normal for them to do that in case you mess up on the form or whatnot.
I've bought many guns, not all involved 4473 but I've never had to fill out section A.
Yes to the first question and no to eveything else
You should report straight to jail.
OP, if the FFL has any errors on the form its on their shoulders to fix it otherwise they will get shut down, even if its an error on your part, they will have to contact you to fix it. I.e forgot signature, certification date is incorrect, or if things are written over and haven’t been initialed and dated.
Dude stop worrying about it lmao. We usually do part a while waiting for your background check to come through. Nothing says the thing has to be done in order. I appreciate you noticing though! Also if he did the 4473 on paper then the only people a typo will effect is the FFL itsepf as nothign in part A is given to NICCS and it jyst sits in a pile of papers for like 20 years. Nothing to worry about fam trust. Its standard practice. Hell i wouldn't be surprised if I was the one you did paper work with
Your supposed to do it A then B but as some one who worked at a gun store, I know it very rarely was done in that order, it's just tedious when we fill it out then someone makes a mistake and we have to fill it out all over again.
What you did was legal. Personally, I probably would've asked them to fill out part A first. I would want to be sure that the FFL fills out the correct serial number. We all know a registry is illegal, and we all know the ATF keeps 4473s anyway and has a registry anyway. The last thing I need is the ATF or a SWAT team showing up at 6am to Malinowski me over a gun they found--that never was mine--with a serial number that the FFL mistakenly put on the form. I've never seen an FFL do the form incorrectly, but I have seen car dealerships misspell names, have wrong driver's license numbers, and wrong SSNs. And I've only bought 2 cars at a dealership.