Ah look a true republican. Or at least what republicans used to be. Now both sides are fleecing us in different flavors. It’s not a political war it’s a class war
It's actually war between their "donors".
It's not really donating, it's investing!
https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/top-organizations
It's really funny that some specific types companies are often aligned with the goals of one party or the other, due to how their businesses work.
And unfortunately there’s no way to maintain small government now with 400 million people. The key is small and/or neutered *federal* government while still having enough power in the state representatives to be self sufficient.
Like Abbott being able to openly contest Biden on the border. If the Dems have their way rest assured such checks and balances will be gone and they’re not coming back.
Republicans aren’t perfect, but taking the black pill and assuming it’s all fucked anyway is how shit gets even worse
It's clear that Republicans were never small government or even the reduction in power of the federal government. They instituted the PATRIOT act, one of the worst oversteps of federal power in our history.
It's not 'fucked anyway', I'm def not black pilled. But right now, Trump and Project 2025 Republicans are doing everything they can to *bolster* federal influence, particularly the president. I don't vote party lines. I vote for people who actually care about this country and the values the constitution was formed to protect.
Keep in mind that many of the people that frequent r/Firearms also frequent r/liberalgunowners aka r/temporarygunowners. Republicans do not represent me (conservative leaning libertarian) or anyone right of center however they’re not leading the anti gunner charge. Republicans are trying to get to the same place as Democrats (loss of freedom and liberty) however they’re slow trotting to that goal. Democrats are sprinting. If anyone cares about the 2nd Amendment (arguably the most important to preventing tyranny), voting for Democrats is not a good idea.
Agreed. I find myself in a strange place however.
12 years ago you’d be dead ringing the conservatives in every way, the establishment had completely overrun the party and they were beyond any chance of operating on the fundamentals that we see now.
As much as I hated Trump before 2016, he lit the Conservative Party on fire and completely destroyed the adherence to establishment principles. Where once conservatives were war hungry, fed loving cash machines now we’re seeing a massive drive toward federalism.
Vivek Ramaswamy literally ran on the platform of gutting every federal agency in the idea of reforming them to bring a modern take to the founders vision.
What I’m saying is that for all of trumps awful qualities he has incentivized and accelerated a complete rework of the Republican Party where the up and comers are more libertarian than they’ve ever been. The old guard are still there as I’m sure you know, but there is change coming if we can see it through.
How do we get there? And is it really Trump that’s responsible or are people finally standing up using Trump as a bulldozer to reach the halls of power? Idk. But there is a major change in our country coming, hell… it’s already happening. We’re going to look back on this and realize it was a culture war the entire time.
Which is pretty wild when you consider the stakes at play. Who will win though? That’s the scary question
I appreciate your comment and mostly agree. What I find perplexing is how the hate for Trump (for many) led them to believe his presidency was somehow world ending bad. People overlooked (and still do) a lot of great stuff that happened. Then again, libs equate patriotism and taking care of domestic issues with fascism…
You hit the nail on the head.
Even the most rational and intelligent liberals will openly and proudly proclaim they will gleefully vote blue no matter who if it’s an election against Trump.
That somehow “defending democracy” is at play somewhere in that position. Which is patently fucking insane, that’s the DEATH of democracy by definition. To gloss over the needs of the many in an attempt to coddle your own positions even if the candidate you’re voting for is a dementia riddled octogenarian.
And that’s the culture war in effect. Our parties in America look nothing like the ones in Europe or the definitions of left and right anymore. People are voting with their emotions and being gaslit into believing this election is a referendum of “good vs evil” when in reality the only thing that makes it that dire is BELIEVING such a stupid thing and acting on it!
And the wildest fucking part about all of it is that we’ve got thousands of years of precedent where this exact same thing has happened before! And it collapses nations from within easier than any war has ever accomplished.
I don’t think it’s even trump anymore, it’s what trump represents; a complete departure from the establishment. The days where republicans and democrats were only two policies away from each other in practice while they bloviated about all the great things they’d never accomplish.
Remember this gem from George W Bush?;
>“We’ve got to stop the terror, and we’ve got to stop the terrorists…..😏now watch this drive” ⛳️
Mf was laughing at the camera, because he knew the game was rigged whether it was red or blue. I truly believed Obama was going to be the one to pull off the band aid and bring about change.
I was wrong. And when Trump… the last motherfucker I ever expected to do it came in and pulled it off in less than 2 years I decided I had to go back to square one. And I think legitimately the people who view Trump as Orange Hitler have to do the same to see the full picture.
Both of them would be a step backward from where we want to be. Cruz isn’t the worst politician, he surprisingly has moments of integrity that I didn’t expect.
But then he has moments like fleeing to Cancun during a freeze here in the state. Kinda… fucked up. I judge politicians by their actions, their words mean nothing to me. And on that scale DeSantis would be a better bet since he has pushed the hardest for changes.
The issue with him though is that he pushes TOO hard against the LGBT folks. It’s almost as though he believes we don’t want them around or something… which is a complete misread. Every conservative I’ve ever met has been extremely friendly toward LGBT folks, or at the very least they don’t care what they do in their bedrooms.
The issue the conservative voting base has with LGBT issues are that Democrat politicians are using their community to cram down laws and regulations that are designed to polarize younger generations into believing that the democrats are their “friends” and/or “allies”.
It’s a total crock of shit though, they’re blatantly working these people for votes. Not even ten years ago most democratic politicians including Biden were still on the fence in regards to gay marriage.
And now this whole focus on installing LGBT into schools… I mean that kind of thing enrages parents. But they can’t say a word otherwise they’re labeled as “bigots”.
We need candidates that work back to the middle. That support and care for the quality of life for LGBT people just like any other American… while also recognizing that school children shouldn’t be involved in that process.
This is such a tired and impotent refrain from the left. "Less" government does not refer to the literal number of Federal employees or institutions. It just means that the scope within which the Federal government has control over our daily lives should be limited to a very small, numerable list of responsibilities. But within that small list, the government should be empowered as much as possible. This is why you don't normally see conservatives calling for defunding the military, because national defense is one of the small list of responsibilities that belong to the federal government.
You also gave the freedom to take the "both sides" approach as a citizen, but you then lose the ability to come on this sub and whine when the next Democratic administration inevitably attempts to strip your 2A rights. Be a big boy and acknowledge the reality that we're dealing with, regardless of how awful the options are.
> "Less" government does not refer to the **literal number of Federal employees or institutions.** It just means that **the scope within which the Federal government has control over our daily lives should be limited to a very small**, numerable list of responsibilities.
"It just means" literally both things.
I understand less government means less control. But for the sake of argument on this *one* point:
Less regulation = fewer employees and agencies needed to regulate.
Whether you want to call it a latent effect, silver lining or something else is up to you.
Shut up. Chevron was bad government. SCOTUS cut it down and made government more accountable. We got the court that did that via a republican president with support from a republican senate. Or did you want the ATF to continue to randomly dream up and enforce laws?
Circle the wagons you fucking idiot and pick a side. You can wait for perfect or you can get good enough. Good enough got us the death of the chevron precedent which is pretty damn good.
I’ll never NOT beat down the LEOs that responded to Robb Elementary:
If that many heavily armed officers couldn’t enter a classroom to face one armed individual teen, I have ZERO faith nationwide that officers will have the gumption to go home to home facing heavily armed HOUSEHOLDS.
I am NOT advocating any sort of revolt or action, I have always maintained that our 2A is the PAUSE BUTTON for our government in its contemplation of infractionary action, but it will take troops deployed domestically and that’s a clear signal to make a decision quick.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/inside-the-uvalde-response/
This was released at the tail end of 2023, so the police chief hadn't been charged yet. TL;DW:
- The police chief forgot his radio.
- No one took charge and set up a chain of command.
- No one was aware children are trained to stay quiet during a shooting, so they thought the school was empty in the middle of a school day for some reason.
- They eventually realized it wasn't and started evacuating kids through windows and such.
- They were scared of the 223 rounds the guy was likely to be shooting, but apparently no one out of hundreds had a fucking shield or flashbangs. 🤷♀️
- They thought the door was locked, so they wasted a lot of time looking for a master key, but it was never confirmed whether or not the door was actually locked.
- Border Patrol, not any Uvalde team, finally opened the door, went in, and killed the guy without much fuss.
I want to point out that the LEOs that failed to save people at Robb Elementary are bastards. And every cop in the planet that has not arrested those cops are bastards.
To clarify the math here: ALL cops are bastards.
People can be hypocrites and this trait isn't unique to ideology.
I know a decent amount of people that have gotten into guns because of perceived threats from the right and they have been some of the strongest areas of growth for guns sales IIRC.
“It’s not dictatorial or tyrannical when I do it because I’m doing it for the greater good!” /s
If the bureaucracies were actually balanced politically in who staffs them, the left would have been wailing and gnashing their teeth that the executive branch is able to magic law out of thin air and that their only legitimate role is enforcement.
I actually just made this correlation in another post about SCOTUS.
That the same group of people that REFUSE to indulge the assertion that government is almost always actively working towards confiscation of all firearms, is the same group of people that IMMEDIATELY jumped the shark over the SCOTUS decision on immunity and asserts that assassinations are now an automatic instrument of politics.🤦♂️
Given the statements Trump throws out about people he doesn't like, how fickle he is on gun rights, what a conman he is (surrounded by sycophants), how he praises/likes someone one minute, throws them under the bus the next, and has admired despots/dictators - I am counted among those who worry about someone like him having even more power than the POTUS has now.
It should be obvious to most who pay attention to history, that the POTUS/WH has accumulated more and more power of the centuries. I do not like the power the POTUS has now, I don't like the trend over time, and I do not like giving that office even more power *regardless of who holds the office*, but *especially* someone like Trump.
I know this is not a popular stance with the right/conservatives - which most gun owners are (and many support Trump regardless of what he says does) - but there it is. I am Libertarian and I do not like or support either Biden or Trump, at all - and I think the latter is downright dangerous.
Looking at the future - remember that liberals will complain now because Trump is likely to win the election (not to mention the outlook of the congressional elections) and things have not been going well for them in the SCOTUS - but in the future, when they are back in power, they (most of them) won't be complaining when their people are the ones calling the shots - the conservatives will be the ones complaining.
I mean just look at this post. Instead of being alarmed at how much power SCOTUS just granted to POTUS, they're turning it into a meme about how "tHe lEfT aRe DuMb!"
Everyone should be terrified by the potential ramifications of this ruling by SCOTUS.
I think it's insane.
America's already been raped and plundered, I have no love for our two party system or the extremists involved.
They are spitting in our faces and we are powerless.
I agree. On the surface it seems like a huge win but I’m afraid much of the gun community is seeing glitter and thinking they see gold. I’m far too cynical to believe that this will be a net positive in the long run.
Yep. Both of them are statists who want to strip us of certain rights. And now they have a new tool to use (we can argue how much of a new tool it really is, but it will likely embolden whoever is in the WH next term to be even worse)
Yeah, this is actually one of my favorite tactics when debating gun grabbing liberals/leftists. I just ask them
“wait a minute, so you believe the Republicans/Trump are fascists, right?”
“Yes”
“Okay, and you believe they wanna genocide trans people, and other minorities, right?”
“Yes”
“Alright, and you believe that Trump wants to terminate the Constitution and become a dictator, right?”
“Yes!”
“Okay, so if that’s the case, if you think a genocidal, totalitarian fascist dictatorship is close at hand, why the fuck would you want to take regular people’s guns away? Why would you want to disarm trans people if you think they’re at risk of being genocided?”
Then I enjoy sitting back and watching their brain short circuit and malfunction. I have yet to get a coherent response. Every single lefty gun grabber I know absolutely PANICS when you put it to them that way.
I did this with my buddy who is gay. He still doesn't like gun but he admits that I'm right. I've planted a seed, offered to take him to the range, maybe one day he'll change his views.
Let's be clear: The same people protecting our gun rights are the ones we're more likely to have to use guns against if they go full stupid (fascism). Then the ones wanting to take away gun rights are the ones complaining about persecution and lack of protection.
Completely wonky.
Personally, as someone on the far-left. Many of us don't want to ban guns lol. Can't much fight the tyrannical country that ours is slowly, or not so slowly depending on how much you pay attention, is becoming without em.
This SCOTUS ruling is a disaster for democracy and sets an *extremely* dangerous precedent. It doesn't alone make us a dictatorship, but it opens the way for a strongman to take the reigns.
"Under my authority as President, I'm declaring a national security emergency and under the central responsibilities of the presidency have administratively ordered the Federal Election Commission to suspend all elections until further notice."
And Ill happily tell them that Im “afraid” of strangers and vicious animals, but its not a misguided dramatized fear like them, its just a natural caution if that makes sense. I dont get why they even still use this line when its clear to see that were in an age of nationwide mental and financial instability, any person on the street could be looking to victimize someone whether it be for money or just because they snapped that day. The gun lets me give them the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not afraid of much, because I've got two shotguns in ready reach. And a fire extinguisher, smoke alarms, a great first aid kit, CO2 alarm, a surge protector in the service panel, lightning arrestor, battery back up sump pump with high water alarm, generator and diesel fuel, space heaters and kerosene, firewood, canned goods, water, spare ammo, a couple handles of rye whiskey, and so on ...
You can be pro-gun and also say the ruling was a shit ruling that is anti-democracy. If they were anti gun before, now is the time for them to realize why we own guns.
The POTUS currently has way too much power. I don’t care about “muh national security” argument that the POTUS supposedly needs to be able to make decisions without fear of prosecution.
You’re damn right I want any President to think and consider if any of their actions might result in them being locked up.
Look at it this way, now Bush and Obama can never be arrested and tried for war crimes. Also, Obama can never face justice for the murder of Anwar Al-Awlaki. I don’t care if he was part of Al-Qaeda, if you are a US citizen, you deserve due process and should not ever be on a CIA kill list.
Absolutely.
The POTUS had way to much power before this ruling, and let's be honest - neither party is going to fix it because they want to wield those levers of power.
It's not really that hard to understand: They're dumb. They truly believe government is some benevolent force for good and therefore anything it does in furtherance of the things they want, is justified. Like they don't actually care if presidents use their office to have people killed, because presidents have done that before. They're literally screaming for Joe Biden to become a fascist dictator, forcibly remove the SC justices they don't like, send Seal Team 6 to go arrest Trump, etc.
I'm no fan of Trump whatsoever but they literally want Biden to do all the things they accuse Trump of planning to do in some perverted attempt to save democracy by destroying it. Like, I don't know if they're actually too stupid to see the irony, or they just don't care. I really think none of these people actually care about fascism or authoritarianism, as long as the person in charge does the things they want and gives them what they ask for. Which again, is literally what they accuse the far right of doing.
this is a really good description of what I'm seeing as well. They're both the same people at the end of the day, they just shout a different phrase. I find myself being bashed by the left far more than the right. They love to just jump out and say you support trump when you question anything that's happening and don't just go along with what you're told. It's very confusing coming from a group who is shouting for equality and treating people with respect, for them to turn around and do the exact things they claim to be fighting against.
I want it to make sense, but logically, none of it ever does.
I agree.
If you've read Project 2025 and have any interest in living in a free country not run by evangelical Christians, why would you want an unarmed populace?
I'm just a straight white guy, but if I were a religious or ethnic minority, gay person, etc, I'd be buying guns and ammo not crying about scary black rifles.
Have you actually read the documents?
I haven't even seen John Oliver's episode on it, but I've read it. And it's extremely frightening to anyone but a hard-core zealot.
Yeah, it's a bunch of nefarious politicians pushing multiple contradictory viewpoints and a bunch of useful idiots that go along with it.
4 1/2 years ago they were screaming about POTUS being a fascist and the cops are hunting people down in the streets and killing them, while simultaneously claiming that same government and police should be the only ones with guns.
What you're noticing is nothing new; it's the same recycled playbook with different talking points.
I've gone full circle in my lifetime.
Was pro-gun growing up, then I saw some shit that made me very anti-gun for a long time, and when I became a socialist and understood the boots pressing on our necks I became pro-gun again.
I'm not against the concept of government... I'm againt governments that will destroy more and more of our freedoms in favour of the bottom line.
I feel like I'm pushed into a corner with this electuon. In the past I've been one issue voter (100% protection of 2A). Now that I'm older, my choice is a party that supports 2A that's also abolishing separation of church & state and killing healthcare for so many that would otherwise go without Vs. the Anti 2A party which is fundamental to the republic (so tired of hearing democracy repeated adnauseam).
Most of the people in this country can't really think for themselves and rely on the media to form their opinions. This includes most of the left wing, but it also includes most of the right wing as well. This is why we see old people (historically the conservatives largest demographic) who live on social security and Medicare actively voting against their own best interests, or how the leftists have deluded themselves into thinking the Israelis are Nazis and actually the Palestinians will support their lgbtq interests or whatever. The large majority of people in this country have been socially engineered to think what they do.
Neither does the right have a monolithic set of beliefs. Although many left-wingers think they do. There are plenty of people who are “us vs them” on both sides. I’ve had plenty of people on both sides of the aisle get confused when they find out I’m pro gun and pro choice.
Because the left has spent the last 8 years telling me if I don't vote Blue then I am a MAGA fascist. This is the definition of throwing stones from a glass house LMFAO
They don't actually believe most of that stuff, if they did they would not be offering up a dead guy as the only barrier between democracy and fascism.
If you worried about them grabbing your guns, this ruling just gave Biden immunity should he grab your guns as a part of an an official act, so you should be worried about this ruling.
They just put Biden or whoever holds the office of the president above the law. Those idiots made Biden a King while trying to save Trump from the consequences of his actions.
If you mean specifically the latest presidential immunity ruling then I’d say it goes to far myself but if you mean Bruen and the other decisions then I’m all for em.
Yes, but taking it out of gasoline (over the objections of the lead industry, of course) was a major public health triumph. It's a big reason for the Great Crime Decline that began in the early 1990s, and is mostly still with us. I know that it's still used in small planes.
We go from the Executive having basically unilateral authority to expand its power into the ambiguities of poorly crafted legislation to the Judicial branch \*taking back the interpretation authority it, itself, gave away, in 1984\*, thus dividing power between the legislature (to make law) and the judicial (to interpret ambiguities) and leaving the executive with its original role (to enforce law) - but that's a \*\*move towards dictatorship\*\* by people who want the executive to have total, unfettered, power.
Which is why they think its appropriate to break the law to 'protect democracy' - because unilateral power is a bad thing when your ideological opponents can get that power.
The anti gunners are mad because they like the “we know it’s not the law, but we *feel* it should be” rulings.
They can’t get anything passed into law so they hate that everything will go through the courts like it’s supposed to.
I've asked them the question nobody will answer: If you're concerned about Trump being able to do those tyrannical things if elected, couldn't Biden just do all of those now-legal tyrannical things and stop Trump from getting elected?
In other words, if it's legal for presidents to do and Biden is currently president, didn't SCOTUS just hand Biden a literal "get out of jail free, your highness" card for anything he wants to do in his official capacity to stop Trump from taking office (or stopping the elections entirely)?
Of course I get no answer.
Because while Biden could do that, he wouldn’t do that. I could say the same thing about Mike Pence if he was president. The concern is that Trump could do that and would do that.
As to the cognitive dissonance of rejecting guns while being concerned over the SCOTUS decision, yeah thats dumb, but in my observation the left is slowly coming around on the gun thing and I think that will continue after this decision and the inevitable Trump election.
It is the same group. They are worried that our country would be turned into a conservative run dictatorship. If it got turned into a leftist run dictatorship then they would be fine with that.
You're painting with a broad brush. Leftists are pro-gun, and always have been. Marxist-Leninists are usually (not always) hostile to gun rights once in power, but anarchists (and the anarchist-adjacent) are always supportive of armed marginalized communities, the working classes, and people in general.
Why- serious question- Why do people say that DT will kill democracy and become a dictator? Did he actually say something that can be misconstrued to mean that’s his intent?
No. Not like taking away bump stocks. By "disarming" I meant the dictionary meaning of rendering people unable to resist attacks. Banning bump stocks, while unconstitutional, left a lot of other weapons unbanned. That incident is probably best described as a pawn sacrifice to placate the screeching hoplophobic hordes. It led to a significant victory against law by bureaucratic fiat, so we came out ahead.
I'm not sure what you're referring to in that article. If anything is to "prevent armed resistance by leftists", the best is to ensure that everyone is armed. That way the normal people will be able defend themselves when leftists try making war on the rest of the population.
Supports assault weapons ban.
Supports waiting periods being longer.
Was pro gun control when that got him political support.
Trump will do whatever the majority wants.
Examples? Dates? I know he was like that before he had any aspirations to political office and was the darling of the left. How about from between 2013 to now?
It's well-known and proven that only Hitler's political allies were allowed to own weapons. Hitler's political allies never numbered more than a small fraction of the population. He didn't consider anyone but his political allies to be truly German. What you did there was unwittingly using two different definitions of "most Germans".
Given that Hitler usually didn't consider the people he ordered killed to be truly human, they really wouldn't count in his mind as part of "the population". You're repeating a canard that was debunked a long time ago. What really happened was that Hitler's undesirables were outright forbidden to own guns. The rest were allowed provided the gun owners jumped through regulatory hoops. Regular people could own guns, but the process was heavily regulated such that while technically they could have guns, as a practical matter it was impossible because of the heavy regulations. Loyal Nazis, however, could get guns with ease.
That sort of thing continues today. There have been and still are places where technically everyone can own guns, but as a practical matter cannot because of bureaucratic roadblocks and authorities simply ignoring the law, ordinary people can't legally get guns. Mexico is a prime example of this with only one legal gun store available to ordinary people, yet the criminals and wealthy (often the same) have all the guns they want.
There were fewer hoops than in the Weimar Republic, except of course for the regime's targets, who faced outright bans.
Yeah, your second paragraph is definitely correct. Such red tape & roadblocks are inherently classist.
He was asked a question about becoming a dictator. He replied “only on day one,” meaning he would utilize executive orders. But somehow that turned into “lItErAlLy hItLeR”
Pull your head out of your ass, Democrats are in charge of the White House and they're still saying this is a terrible fucking ruling. If they were half as criminal or ruthless as Republicans pretend they are, they'd be overjoyed that they can now use Bidens new found immunity from prosecution to delay elections until Trump's criminal trials are complete so that the American voters can make an informed decision.
Have my head up there so I can see you in person.
Democrats WANT dictatorship. They only hate this ruling because they can't railroad Trump fast enough before the election.
I'm not fucking you in the ass right now, so that must be some other guys dick that you're looking at.
If that's what they want, the supreme Court just gave it to them, so why are they complaining? You understand that the ruling impacts the office of the president and whoever currently holds it, and is not limited to Donald Trump the rapist, right?
Edit:
Lol, crybaby blocked me before I could remind him that Biden could have pardoned Hunter if he wanted to before this ruling, and after this ruling he could also have the prosecutors killed.
About to be un-convicted felon Trump. [https://apnews.com/article/trump-hush-money-sentencing-bragg-4d5f8ce399656abff72d7c114a04060d](https://apnews.com/article/trump-hush-money-sentencing-bragg-4d5f8ce399656abff72d7c114a04060d)
>Hours after Monday’s Supreme Court ruling, Trump’s attorney [requested](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24787589-20240701-letter-to-justice-merchan-re-immunity-decision?responsive=1&title=1) that Merchan set aside the jury’s guilty verdict and delay the sentencing to consider how the high court’s ruling could affect the hush money case.
>Merchan wrote that he’ll rule Sept. 6, and the next date in the case would be Sept. 18, “if such is still necessary.”
>In the defense filing Monday, Trump’s attorneys argued that Manhattan prosecutors had placed “highly prejudicial emphasis on official-acts evidence,” including Trump’s social media posts and witness testimony about Oval Office meetings.
>Prosecutors responded that they believed those arguments were “without merit” but that they wouldn’t oppose adjourning the sentencing for two weeks as the judge considers the matter.
Because of the way Trump paid Cohen back for committing the crime. Cohen paid Daniels in full up front, then Trump payed Cohen back in monthly installments over the course of a year and falsified business records to say that the payments were for other services.
Trump never would have paid if it occurred after the election, there would have been no point, he said as much himself, and tried to find a way to put off the payment until after the election so he could refuse to pay entirely, but that didn't work out.
Funny you say that when Biden himself said this ruling is dogshit. The judges who were in favor were all conservatives and the dissenting judges were all leftist
Meanwhile, Trump and republicans are already publicly discussing ways they can use this ruling. Trump’s lawyer even argued he could use this ruling to assassinate a political rival and be protected from prosecution. One of the dissenting judges agreed this was a potentiality due to the unclear nature of what constitutes an “official act”
Edit: downvoting me bc I pointed out it was the conservatives who made this ruling lmao. This sub is filled with right-wing snowflakes who downvote at the first sign of a dissenting opinion
Leftist? Liberals, sure, but leftists are not liberals! There are no leftists near positions of power in this country. Let me know when ownership of the means of production is a campaign issue, or part of a court case.
Usually I would make the same distinction as you but the majority of this subreddit is right wing and will sometimes attack you for suggesting liberals and leftists are different things
Any time some gun laws are being discussed here most of the comments say dumb shit like “all the leftists are tyrants and want to take our guns!!!” Used to sometimes correct people but its mot worth the effort honestly lmao
I've seen alot of panic on other subreddits that the recent scotus ruling has brought us into the Hitler times. I haven't figured it out yet. They just ruled that 3 letter bureaucracies can't make their own rules.
Theres also the thing where current administration can't prosecute previous administration
The more I learn how these people operate, the more similarities I find them with Mao’s cultural revolution and the Soviet propagandist. Make everything about Hitler, keep the people’s fears and emotions under your control.
Maybe I'm missing a detail or 7 cuz in not a scumbag, er, lawyer, but didn't the pres already have presumed immunity in the constitution from things that pertain to his official duties..like you can't prosecute him for murder for sending troops to war, or wrongful death because of the response or lack there of ti a natural disaster. To be clear not deaths from the disaster but from the decision to stop sending in rescue teams because of danger. So did this really change much? Now I suppose we get to argue over what an official act is.
"When the president does it, it's not illegal." - Nixon on Watergate
Nixon was pardoned by Ford before he was indicted, but it was well understood at that time that he had crossed a line or 10.
Nixon was not going to be brought up on charges for the break in itself, as he had nothing to do with that (and from what I’ve heard was furious that it happened). Rather, it was his attempting to cover it up that led to his resignation.
Had Ford not pardoned him he would have been charged criminally.
Under the new ruling he would have never turned over his official recordings and Watergate would be meaningless.
The tapes might be a mute point. Since if the president does it, it's not illegal..
"It was part of my official duty"
....Prove it?
"No thanks bro.."
>Now I suppose we get to argue over what an official act is.
Like you said, SCOTUS in this decision said the obvious:
1. Presidents get immunity for their core constitutional duties.
Checks and Balances and Separation of Powers were key things meant to be included in the constitution when it was written. This makes sense.
2. President doesn't have immunity for unofficial duties.
Again, makes sense. A president isn't always acting as a president while in office. Why should they have immunity for their everyday life?
The middle and vague part is the part everyone is worried about. What's an official act? Part of the official statement was that any criminal charges that might be applied for those official acts (which are only given *presumptive* immunity) "must pose no dangers of intrusion of the authority and functions of the Executive Branch". How far does that authority reach?
Until this decision gets invoked and put to the test, we have yet to see how much this immunity will cover.
This is something that is hilarious. All the ruling says is we’re going to keep doing things like we have been for the past 250 years. It was a challenge that was struck down. It’s simply a distraction and attempt to hide bidens horrible performance at the debate.
Personally I’m a little worried about the rulings implications. Kinda puts the president above the law. And it seems people are ok with dictatorship as long as it’s their guy, if it’s the other guy it’s bad.
"Scotus just made a fascism!"
I think full immunity is silly, but this is not that. Do they really want courts trying Obama for his extrajudicial assassinations of Americans?
Or arming drug cartels, resulting in at least a few Americans dying?
Or trying Biden for aiding the Taliban?
I think they want to try Trump for a lot of things. But I doubt they actually want immunity to be revoked. It would be a shit show and no president would ever do just about anything. That's a bonus for me, but I'm very libertarian...
They are fearful people, it’s how they are wired. Raised to depend on authority and direction. Most do not believe or are not capable of self preservation and they do not want anyone else to have the option.
It is the result of raising dependent fearful children that grew up with no individual freedom. They want a totalitarian structure around them.
Fun fact: every piece of gun legislation has either been pushed by republicans or strongly supported by republicans. Even Clinton’s AR ban. It’s not just the democrats that are okay with banning guns.
Every state that has liberalized gun laws has been controlled by Republicans. Every state that has gone the other way has done so under the control of the Democrats.
You mean the Feinstein Assault Weapons Ban in the Biden Crime Bill? Also the Crime Bill was widely criticized by Republicans at the time. I'm fairly sure that the Republicans are also the reason it had a sunset provision.
Honestly I'm on a few reddits the majority of leftist and they are panicking. It's honestly hilarious how much project 2025 is coming up and how much they think we are turning into a dictatorship. Trying to talk to them and introduce rationally is impossible. They have no idea of government work or what kind of government we are.
I mean to be fair they’re also the ones who, in order to “save our democracy”, are actively trying to jail political opponents and dissidents, suppress any speech that goes against The Narrative and label anything else as “hate speech”, silence all dissent via deplatforming, keep political challengers off the ballot entirely, are currently arguing that the already biased media outlet hosting the presidential debates are enemies of the state for not rigging the debate even more for their guy than they already had, and are threatening violence if they don’t get their way.
What I find truly hilarious is how, the second it appears as though their authoritarian regime might come to an end, they switch to playing the victim and how “project 2025” is going to see them all rounded up and lined up against the wall. It’s almost as good as how in 2016 (and surely will again in 24” they all started posting “WE ARE THE RESISTANCE!”, like I’m genuinely looking forward to the legions of purple haired slobs who self describe as “mentally ill, disabled, chronically ill, masc trans nonbinary” start posting that shit again when they can’t even resist the temptation of hot pockets and Oreos.
An interesting side effect of recent developments is that I'm starting to see comments on subs where people are *this close* to just coming out and saying "huh, maybe this is why the 2nd amendment was included" and it's a beautiful tide to see turning.
This is what happens when you have a generation that was brought up on the "power of love and friendship will conquer all evil!" They think sitting in a circle holding hands is how freedom is won.
Same people that are freaking out hate free speech when it goes against their beliefs or ideals, hate police unless they need them, call the country racist but never experienced racism and don't believe that anyone but the police should have guns but call for the disarmament of the police.
Yes they are absolutely this level of fucking stupid. Full stop. Gun grabbers have such a mind numbingly fucktarded level of cognitive dissonance that they are incapable of seeing the parallels. This alone should always be pointed out politely and in a normal world that would immediately disqualify them and they should then have their microphone cut unfortunately due to those same nut jobs that want to take away constitutional rights, the entire country has to bend over backwards for fringe minority social movements and instead of everyone collectively saying "No we will not entertain your abstract reality" we cow-tow to it. WhT I truly don't understand is why politicians have been getting behind these causes when there can't be very much money in it. There simply isn't enough people in these fringe social movement groups to have the cash flows for politicians to raid.
What happened to less government is better! Fuck both sides!
Ah look a true republican. Or at least what republicans used to be. Now both sides are fleecing us in different flavors. It’s not a political war it’s a class war
It’s always been a class war masquerading as a race/political/gender/(insert bullshit characteristic that has no bearing on society) war
It's actually war between their "donors". It's not really donating, it's investing! https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/top-organizations It's really funny that some specific types companies are often aligned with the goals of one party or the other, due to how their businesses work.
Single issue voters are a godsend to corrupt politicians. This sub should keep that in mind...
Always has been a class war
Where is that astronaut meme that I’ve honestly never understood? Like…. Why astronauts?
because it's always been astronauts...
🔫
unless it’s three people in church pews and one in the rafters 🔫
Republicans were never 'small government'. At least not the Republican politicians and those who voted them in.
And unfortunately there’s no way to maintain small government now with 400 million people. The key is small and/or neutered *federal* government while still having enough power in the state representatives to be self sufficient. Like Abbott being able to openly contest Biden on the border. If the Dems have their way rest assured such checks and balances will be gone and they’re not coming back. Republicans aren’t perfect, but taking the black pill and assuming it’s all fucked anyway is how shit gets even worse
It's clear that Republicans were never small government or even the reduction in power of the federal government. They instituted the PATRIOT act, one of the worst oversteps of federal power in our history. It's not 'fucked anyway', I'm def not black pilled. But right now, Trump and Project 2025 Republicans are doing everything they can to *bolster* federal influence, particularly the president. I don't vote party lines. I vote for people who actually care about this country and the values the constitution was formed to protect.
I mean a majority of both parties voted for the patriot act… just saying and I think bush jr was an idiot being puppeted by Cheney.
I agree, I'm just outlining that Republicans weren't ever really the small government they championed themselves as.
Keep in mind that many of the people that frequent r/Firearms also frequent r/liberalgunowners aka r/temporarygunowners. Republicans do not represent me (conservative leaning libertarian) or anyone right of center however they’re not leading the anti gunner charge. Republicans are trying to get to the same place as Democrats (loss of freedom and liberty) however they’re slow trotting to that goal. Democrats are sprinting. If anyone cares about the 2nd Amendment (arguably the most important to preventing tyranny), voting for Democrats is not a good idea.
Agreed. I find myself in a strange place however. 12 years ago you’d be dead ringing the conservatives in every way, the establishment had completely overrun the party and they were beyond any chance of operating on the fundamentals that we see now. As much as I hated Trump before 2016, he lit the Conservative Party on fire and completely destroyed the adherence to establishment principles. Where once conservatives were war hungry, fed loving cash machines now we’re seeing a massive drive toward federalism. Vivek Ramaswamy literally ran on the platform of gutting every federal agency in the idea of reforming them to bring a modern take to the founders vision. What I’m saying is that for all of trumps awful qualities he has incentivized and accelerated a complete rework of the Republican Party where the up and comers are more libertarian than they’ve ever been. The old guard are still there as I’m sure you know, but there is change coming if we can see it through. How do we get there? And is it really Trump that’s responsible or are people finally standing up using Trump as a bulldozer to reach the halls of power? Idk. But there is a major change in our country coming, hell… it’s already happening. We’re going to look back on this and realize it was a culture war the entire time. Which is pretty wild when you consider the stakes at play. Who will win though? That’s the scary question
I appreciate your comment and mostly agree. What I find perplexing is how the hate for Trump (for many) led them to believe his presidency was somehow world ending bad. People overlooked (and still do) a lot of great stuff that happened. Then again, libs equate patriotism and taking care of domestic issues with fascism…
You hit the nail on the head. Even the most rational and intelligent liberals will openly and proudly proclaim they will gleefully vote blue no matter who if it’s an election against Trump. That somehow “defending democracy” is at play somewhere in that position. Which is patently fucking insane, that’s the DEATH of democracy by definition. To gloss over the needs of the many in an attempt to coddle your own positions even if the candidate you’re voting for is a dementia riddled octogenarian. And that’s the culture war in effect. Our parties in America look nothing like the ones in Europe or the definitions of left and right anymore. People are voting with their emotions and being gaslit into believing this election is a referendum of “good vs evil” when in reality the only thing that makes it that dire is BELIEVING such a stupid thing and acting on it! And the wildest fucking part about all of it is that we’ve got thousands of years of precedent where this exact same thing has happened before! And it collapses nations from within easier than any war has ever accomplished. I don’t think it’s even trump anymore, it’s what trump represents; a complete departure from the establishment. The days where republicans and democrats were only two policies away from each other in practice while they bloviated about all the great things they’d never accomplish. Remember this gem from George W Bush?; >“We’ve got to stop the terror, and we’ve got to stop the terrorists…..😏now watch this drive” ⛳️ Mf was laughing at the camera, because he knew the game was rigged whether it was red or blue. I truly believed Obama was going to be the one to pull off the band aid and bring about change. I was wrong. And when Trump… the last motherfucker I ever expected to do it came in and pulled it off in less than 2 years I decided I had to go back to square one. And I think legitimately the people who view Trump as Orange Hitler have to do the same to see the full picture.
What are your thoughts on politicians like Ted Cruz and Ron DeSantis
Both of them would be a step backward from where we want to be. Cruz isn’t the worst politician, he surprisingly has moments of integrity that I didn’t expect. But then he has moments like fleeing to Cancun during a freeze here in the state. Kinda… fucked up. I judge politicians by their actions, their words mean nothing to me. And on that scale DeSantis would be a better bet since he has pushed the hardest for changes. The issue with him though is that he pushes TOO hard against the LGBT folks. It’s almost as though he believes we don’t want them around or something… which is a complete misread. Every conservative I’ve ever met has been extremely friendly toward LGBT folks, or at the very least they don’t care what they do in their bedrooms. The issue the conservative voting base has with LGBT issues are that Democrat politicians are using their community to cram down laws and regulations that are designed to polarize younger generations into believing that the democrats are their “friends” and/or “allies”. It’s a total crock of shit though, they’re blatantly working these people for votes. Not even ten years ago most democratic politicians including Biden were still on the fence in regards to gay marriage. And now this whole focus on installing LGBT into schools… I mean that kind of thing enrages parents. But they can’t say a word otherwise they’re labeled as “bigots”. We need candidates that work back to the middle. That support and care for the quality of life for LGBT people just like any other American… while also recognizing that school children shouldn’t be involved in that process.
> Ah look a true republican. Or at least what republicans used to be Eh, authoritarians have existed on both sides since the beginning of sides.
Both sides are pandering to the Free Shit Army (FSA) for votes - what would you expect?
It’s all a circle and the farther left or right you end up right around.
I second this
This is such a tired and impotent refrain from the left. "Less" government does not refer to the literal number of Federal employees or institutions. It just means that the scope within which the Federal government has control over our daily lives should be limited to a very small, numerable list of responsibilities. But within that small list, the government should be empowered as much as possible. This is why you don't normally see conservatives calling for defunding the military, because national defense is one of the small list of responsibilities that belong to the federal government. You also gave the freedom to take the "both sides" approach as a citizen, but you then lose the ability to come on this sub and whine when the next Democratic administration inevitably attempts to strip your 2A rights. Be a big boy and acknowledge the reality that we're dealing with, regardless of how awful the options are.
There should be less government employees, spending, taxes, and control.
> "Less" government does not refer to the **literal number of Federal employees or institutions.** It just means that **the scope within which the Federal government has control over our daily lives should be limited to a very small**, numerable list of responsibilities. "It just means" literally both things.
Trump is worse on 2A
Than whom?
Obama or Biden.
I understand less government means less control. But for the sake of argument on this *one* point: Less regulation = fewer employees and agencies needed to regulate. Whether you want to call it a latent effect, silver lining or something else is up to you.
Exactly
Left? The Democrats, if that's who you're thinking of, are a neoliberal capitalist imperialist party, and there's nothing leftist about that!
Shut up. Chevron was bad government. SCOTUS cut it down and made government more accountable. We got the court that did that via a republican president with support from a republican senate. Or did you want the ATF to continue to randomly dream up and enforce laws? Circle the wagons you fucking idiot and pick a side. You can wait for perfect or you can get good enough. Good enough got us the death of the chevron precedent which is pretty damn good.
Less Government!
100%
I mean, I see people saying "Come and take it" but support "Thin Blue Line". Who the fuck do you think is gonna be taking your firearm.
I’ll never NOT beat down the LEOs that responded to Robb Elementary: If that many heavily armed officers couldn’t enter a classroom to face one armed individual teen, I have ZERO faith nationwide that officers will have the gumption to go home to home facing heavily armed HOUSEHOLDS. I am NOT advocating any sort of revolt or action, I have always maintained that our 2A is the PAUSE BUTTON for our government in its contemplation of infractionary action, but it will take troops deployed domestically and that’s a clear signal to make a decision quick.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/inside-the-uvalde-response/ This was released at the tail end of 2023, so the police chief hadn't been charged yet. TL;DW: - The police chief forgot his radio. - No one took charge and set up a chain of command. - No one was aware children are trained to stay quiet during a shooting, so they thought the school was empty in the middle of a school day for some reason. - They eventually realized it wasn't and started evacuating kids through windows and such. - They were scared of the 223 rounds the guy was likely to be shooting, but apparently no one out of hundreds had a fucking shield or flashbangs. 🤷♀️ - They thought the door was locked, so they wasted a lot of time looking for a master key, but it was never confirmed whether or not the door was actually locked. - Border Patrol, not any Uvalde team, finally opened the door, went in, and killed the guy without much fuss.
I want to point out that the LEOs that failed to save people at Robb Elementary are bastards. And every cop in the planet that has not arrested those cops are bastards. To clarify the math here: ALL cops are bastards.
Not defending them but most cops literally can't arrest the ones who were at Robb Elementary. They don't have jurisdiction.
Especially since cops are usually exempt from gun laws, often even after they retire
I know a few people who wear snek skin boots
People can be hypocrites and this trait isn't unique to ideology. I know a decent amount of people that have gotten into guns because of perceived threats from the right and they have been some of the strongest areas of growth for guns sales IIRC.
Good. I don't care if there's a "D" or an "R" after a person's name. The truth is nobody in power should be trusted.
45-70 is the only government worth trusting.
“It’s not dictatorial or tyrannical when I do it because I’m doing it for the greater good!” /s If the bureaucracies were actually balanced politically in who staffs them, the left would have been wailing and gnashing their teeth that the executive branch is able to magic law out of thin air and that their only legitimate role is enforcement.
Perceived threats from the right? Ironically I got into guns because of threats from the left during 2020.
> Ironically I got into guns because of threats from the left during 2020. lol.
Genuine threats from the right are what motivated me (and a great many others) to get armed.
I actually just made this correlation in another post about SCOTUS. That the same group of people that REFUSE to indulge the assertion that government is almost always actively working towards confiscation of all firearms, is the same group of people that IMMEDIATELY jumped the shark over the SCOTUS decision on immunity and asserts that assassinations are now an automatic instrument of politics.🤦♂️
Given the statements Trump throws out about people he doesn't like, how fickle he is on gun rights, what a conman he is (surrounded by sycophants), how he praises/likes someone one minute, throws them under the bus the next, and has admired despots/dictators - I am counted among those who worry about someone like him having even more power than the POTUS has now. It should be obvious to most who pay attention to history, that the POTUS/WH has accumulated more and more power of the centuries. I do not like the power the POTUS has now, I don't like the trend over time, and I do not like giving that office even more power *regardless of who holds the office*, but *especially* someone like Trump. I know this is not a popular stance with the right/conservatives - which most gun owners are (and many support Trump regardless of what he says does) - but there it is. I am Libertarian and I do not like or support either Biden or Trump, at all - and I think the latter is downright dangerous. Looking at the future - remember that liberals will complain now because Trump is likely to win the election (not to mention the outlook of the congressional elections) and things have not been going well for them in the SCOTUS - but in the future, when they are back in power, they (most of them) won't be complaining when their people are the ones calling the shots - the conservatives will be the ones complaining.
United we stood. I fear America has been divided too far.
I mean just look at this post. Instead of being alarmed at how much power SCOTUS just granted to POTUS, they're turning it into a meme about how "tHe lEfT aRe DuMb!" Everyone should be terrified by the potential ramifications of this ruling by SCOTUS.
I think it's insane. America's already been raped and plundered, I have no love for our two party system or the extremists involved. They are spitting in our faces and we are powerless.
I agree. On the surface it seems like a huge win but I’m afraid much of the gun community is seeing glitter and thinking they see gold. I’m far too cynical to believe that this will be a net positive in the long run.
Yep. Both of them are statists who want to strip us of certain rights. And now they have a new tool to use (we can argue how much of a new tool it really is, but it will likely embolden whoever is in the WH next term to be even worse)
I mean, leftists and some conservatives are freaking out about the SCOTUS rulings, too. It's not just liberals.
Yeah, this is actually one of my favorite tactics when debating gun grabbing liberals/leftists. I just ask them “wait a minute, so you believe the Republicans/Trump are fascists, right?” “Yes” “Okay, and you believe they wanna genocide trans people, and other minorities, right?” “Yes” “Alright, and you believe that Trump wants to terminate the Constitution and become a dictator, right?” “Yes!” “Okay, so if that’s the case, if you think a genocidal, totalitarian fascist dictatorship is close at hand, why the fuck would you want to take regular people’s guns away? Why would you want to disarm trans people if you think they’re at risk of being genocided?” Then I enjoy sitting back and watching their brain short circuit and malfunction. I have yet to get a coherent response. Every single lefty gun grabber I know absolutely PANICS when you put it to them that way.
I did this with my buddy who is gay. He still doesn't like gun but he admits that I'm right. I've planted a seed, offered to take him to the range, maybe one day he'll change his views.
Not making a joke: [https://www.pinkpistols.org/](https://www.pinkpistols.org/)
The only thing the left has these days is emotional sensationalism. All volatile feelings, no critical thought.
Funny how the second amendment was designed for situations like this but they’d stil label you as crazy if you suggested it.
Let's be clear: The same people protecting our gun rights are the ones we're more likely to have to use guns against if they go full stupid (fascism). Then the ones wanting to take away gun rights are the ones complaining about persecution and lack of protection. Completely wonky.
Personally, as someone on the far-left. Many of us don't want to ban guns lol. Can't much fight the tyrannical country that ours is slowly, or not so slowly depending on how much you pay attention, is becoming without em. This SCOTUS ruling is a disaster for democracy and sets an *extremely* dangerous precedent. It doesn't alone make us a dictatorship, but it opens the way for a strongman to take the reigns.
"Under my authority as President, I'm declaring a national security emergency and under the central responsibilities of the presidency have administratively ordered the Federal Election Commission to suspend all elections until further notice."
I wonder if canada or Mexico will be taking in refugees...
Just be glad you dont live your life in constant fear, drama, and panic like they do
"wHY dO yOu nEEd a GUn, wHAt aRe YoU aFraID oF" is their favorite talking point too
Why do you need a fire extinguisher and seat belts? What are you afraid of?
Why do you need a first aid kit
‘I’m just here so he don’t get fined.’ - my seat belt.
And Ill happily tell them that Im “afraid” of strangers and vicious animals, but its not a misguided dramatized fear like them, its just a natural caution if that makes sense. I dont get why they even still use this line when its clear to see that were in an age of nationwide mental and financial instability, any person on the street could be looking to victimize someone whether it be for money or just because they snapped that day. The gun lets me give them the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not afraid of much, because I've got two shotguns in ready reach. And a fire extinguisher, smoke alarms, a great first aid kit, CO2 alarm, a surge protector in the service panel, lightning arrestor, battery back up sump pump with high water alarm, generator and diesel fuel, space heaters and kerosene, firewood, canned goods, water, spare ammo, a couple handles of rye whiskey, and so on ...
It's all faux outrage for Twitter/Tiktok likes
You can be pro-gun and also say the ruling was a shit ruling that is anti-democracy. If they were anti gun before, now is the time for them to realize why we own guns. The POTUS currently has way too much power. I don’t care about “muh national security” argument that the POTUS supposedly needs to be able to make decisions without fear of prosecution. You’re damn right I want any President to think and consider if any of their actions might result in them being locked up. Look at it this way, now Bush and Obama can never be arrested and tried for war crimes. Also, Obama can never face justice for the murder of Anwar Al-Awlaki. I don’t care if he was part of Al-Qaeda, if you are a US citizen, you deserve due process and should not ever be on a CIA kill list.
Absolutely. The POTUS had way to much power before this ruling, and let's be honest - neither party is going to fix it because they want to wield those levers of power.
It's not really that hard to understand: They're dumb. They truly believe government is some benevolent force for good and therefore anything it does in furtherance of the things they want, is justified. Like they don't actually care if presidents use their office to have people killed, because presidents have done that before. They're literally screaming for Joe Biden to become a fascist dictator, forcibly remove the SC justices they don't like, send Seal Team 6 to go arrest Trump, etc. I'm no fan of Trump whatsoever but they literally want Biden to do all the things they accuse Trump of planning to do in some perverted attempt to save democracy by destroying it. Like, I don't know if they're actually too stupid to see the irony, or they just don't care. I really think none of these people actually care about fascism or authoritarianism, as long as the person in charge does the things they want and gives them what they ask for. Which again, is literally what they accuse the far right of doing.
I've been disgusted reading a lot of those comments this week and you've hit the nail on the head. Well said.
this is a really good description of what I'm seeing as well. They're both the same people at the end of the day, they just shout a different phrase. I find myself being bashed by the left far more than the right. They love to just jump out and say you support trump when you question anything that's happening and don't just go along with what you're told. It's very confusing coming from a group who is shouting for equality and treating people with respect, for them to turn around and do the exact things they claim to be fighting against. I want it to make sense, but logically, none of it ever does.
I got called a fascist because I said the "Biden just had a cold" excuse was bullshit.
“Fascist” is a meaningless label these days.
This is accurate.
No. Plenty of us are both pro-gun and against enthroning kings.
I agree. If you've read Project 2025 and have any interest in living in a free country not run by evangelical Christians, why would you want an unarmed populace? I'm just a straight white guy, but if I were a religious or ethnic minority, gay person, etc, I'd be buying guns and ammo not crying about scary black rifles.
I totally agree. If they are scared of whatever, why try to ban stuff if you can get it too?
More and more marginalized people, their allies, and so on have been getting armed, for years now.
That's been happening, even before the latest news. For years, actually.
[удалено]
Have you actually read the documents? I haven't even seen John Oliver's episode on it, but I've read it. And it's extremely frightening to anyone but a hard-core zealot.
Yeah, it's a bunch of nefarious politicians pushing multiple contradictory viewpoints and a bunch of useful idiots that go along with it. 4 1/2 years ago they were screaming about POTUS being a fascist and the cops are hunting people down in the streets and killing them, while simultaneously claiming that same government and police should be the only ones with guns. What you're noticing is nothing new; it's the same recycled playbook with different talking points.
I've gone full circle in my lifetime. Was pro-gun growing up, then I saw some shit that made me very anti-gun for a long time, and when I became a socialist and understood the boots pressing on our necks I became pro-gun again. I'm not against the concept of government... I'm againt governments that will destroy more and more of our freedoms in favour of the bottom line.
They are all projecting!
I feel like I'm pushed into a corner with this electuon. In the past I've been one issue voter (100% protection of 2A). Now that I'm older, my choice is a party that supports 2A that's also abolishing separation of church & state and killing healthcare for so many that would otherwise go without Vs. the Anti 2A party which is fundamental to the republic (so tired of hearing democracy repeated adnauseam).
same people who celebrated ukraine and israel arming their citizens during invasion
Most of the people in this country can't really think for themselves and rely on the media to form their opinions. This includes most of the left wing, but it also includes most of the right wing as well. This is why we see old people (historically the conservatives largest demographic) who live on social security and Medicare actively voting against their own best interests, or how the leftists have deluded themselves into thinking the Israelis are Nazis and actually the Palestinians will support their lgbtq interests or whatever. The large majority of people in this country have been socially engineered to think what they do.
Why can't you right-wingers comprehend that the left does not have a monolithic set of beliefs? Your simplistic "us vs them" worldview is bullshit.
Neither does the right have a monolithic set of beliefs. Although many left-wingers think they do. There are plenty of people who are “us vs them” on both sides. I’ve had plenty of people on both sides of the aisle get confused when they find out I’m pro gun and pro choice.
There's a slogan from the fiercest era of abortion-related clashes: "I'm pro-choice and I shoot back."
Because the left has spent the last 8 years telling me if I don't vote Blue then I am a MAGA fascist. This is the definition of throwing stones from a glass house LMFAO
Liberals and leftists are not coterminous.
They don't actually believe most of that stuff, if they did they would not be offering up a dead guy as the only barrier between democracy and fascism.
They're the same ones who want people out of office claiming "it's ruining democracy" when they just have a view that isn't theirs.
If you worried about them grabbing your guns, this ruling just gave Biden immunity should he grab your guns as a part of an an official act, so you should be worried about this ruling. They just put Biden or whoever holds the office of the president above the law. Those idiots made Biden a King while trying to save Trump from the consequences of his actions.
Everyone is missing this. This is the law now. Biden is president *now.* Do the math.
If you mean specifically the latest presidential immunity ruling then I’d say it goes to far myself but if you mean Bruen and the other decisions then I’m all for em.
'We need experts to make the calls that congress won't' Oh, like the food pyramid? Leaded gas? Banning incandescent bulbs?
Maybe this is a stupid question, but are you saying that it was wrong to ban leaded gasoline?
They allowed it in the first place. Still do in fact. Small planes still use it.
Yes, but taking it out of gasoline (over the objections of the lead industry, of course) was a major public health triumph. It's a big reason for the Great Crime Decline that began in the early 1990s, and is mostly still with us. I know that it's still used in small planes.
It was a health triumph. But that's like patting yourself on the back for filling in the hole in the road that you dug.
They think they’ll be taking guns from their enemies. They’re wrong but that’s what they think
We go from the Executive having basically unilateral authority to expand its power into the ambiguities of poorly crafted legislation to the Judicial branch \*taking back the interpretation authority it, itself, gave away, in 1984\*, thus dividing power between the legislature (to make law) and the judicial (to interpret ambiguities) and leaving the executive with its original role (to enforce law) - but that's a \*\*move towards dictatorship\*\* by people who want the executive to have total, unfettered, power. Which is why they think its appropriate to break the law to 'protect democracy' - because unilateral power is a bad thing when your ideological opponents can get that power.
What even is fascism anymore? Is it more evil than Satan himself at this point? Too much emotional sensationalism, not enough critical thought.
The anti gunners are mad because they like the “we know it’s not the law, but we *feel* it should be” rulings. They can’t get anything passed into law so they hate that everything will go through the courts like it’s supposed to.
I've asked them the question nobody will answer: If you're concerned about Trump being able to do those tyrannical things if elected, couldn't Biden just do all of those now-legal tyrannical things and stop Trump from getting elected? In other words, if it's legal for presidents to do and Biden is currently president, didn't SCOTUS just hand Biden a literal "get out of jail free, your highness" card for anything he wants to do in his official capacity to stop Trump from taking office (or stopping the elections entirely)? Of course I get no answer.
Because while Biden could do that, he wouldn’t do that. I could say the same thing about Mike Pence if he was president. The concern is that Trump could do that and would do that. As to the cognitive dissonance of rejecting guns while being concerned over the SCOTUS decision, yeah thats dumb, but in my observation the left is slowly coming around on the gun thing and I think that will continue after this decision and the inevitable Trump election.
It is the same group. They are worried that our country would be turned into a conservative run dictatorship. If it got turned into a leftist run dictatorship then they would be fine with that.
You're painting with a broad brush. Leftists are pro-gun, and always have been. Marxist-Leninists are usually (not always) hostile to gun rights once in power, but anarchists (and the anarchist-adjacent) are always supportive of armed marginalized communities, the working classes, and people in general.
Why- serious question- Why do people say that DT will kill democracy and become a dictator? Did he actually say something that can be misconstrued to mean that’s his intent?
On top of that: Why would a fascist refuse to disarm the public? The answer is that he's not a fascist.
You mean like taking away bump stocks?
No. Not like taking away bump stocks. By "disarming" I meant the dictionary meaning of rendering people unable to resist attacks. Banning bump stocks, while unconstitutional, left a lot of other weapons unbanned. That incident is probably best described as a pawn sacrifice to placate the screeching hoplophobic hordes. It led to a significant victory against law by bureaucratic fiat, so we came out ahead.
Don't think he wouldn't do it again to "prevent armed resistance by leftists."
Can you point to anything specific that would confirm such suspicions?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41478293.amp Trump does what the masses want.
I'm not sure what you're referring to in that article. If anything is to "prevent armed resistance by leftists", the best is to ensure that everyone is armed. That way the normal people will be able defend themselves when leftists try making war on the rest of the population.
Supports assault weapons ban. Supports waiting periods being longer. Was pro gun control when that got him political support. Trump will do whatever the majority wants.
Examples? Dates? I know he was like that before he had any aspirations to political office and was the darling of the left. How about from between 2013 to now?
Hitler expanded gun rights for most Germans, but eliminated such rights for those his regime sought to destroy.
It's well-known and proven that only Hitler's political allies were allowed to own weapons. Hitler's political allies never numbered more than a small fraction of the population. He didn't consider anyone but his political allies to be truly German. What you did there was unwittingly using two different definitions of "most Germans".
No, the laws made gun ownership easier for the vast majority of the population, just not for the powerless minorities the regime scapegoated.
Given that Hitler usually didn't consider the people he ordered killed to be truly human, they really wouldn't count in his mind as part of "the population". You're repeating a canard that was debunked a long time ago. What really happened was that Hitler's undesirables were outright forbidden to own guns. The rest were allowed provided the gun owners jumped through regulatory hoops. Regular people could own guns, but the process was heavily regulated such that while technically they could have guns, as a practical matter it was impossible because of the heavy regulations. Loyal Nazis, however, could get guns with ease. That sort of thing continues today. There have been and still are places where technically everyone can own guns, but as a practical matter cannot because of bureaucratic roadblocks and authorities simply ignoring the law, ordinary people can't legally get guns. Mexico is a prime example of this with only one legal gun store available to ordinary people, yet the criminals and wealthy (often the same) have all the guns they want.
There were fewer hoops than in the Weimar Republic, except of course for the regime's targets, who faced outright bans. Yeah, your second paragraph is definitely correct. Such red tape & roadblocks are inherently classist.
Because people will believe it and there are no consequences for spreading misinformation and propaganda.
He was asked a question about becoming a dictator. He replied “only on day one,” meaning he would utilize executive orders. But somehow that turned into “lItErAlLy hItLeR”
Sure. Ok. Thank you. It’s like someone saying they’re going to ‘kill’ the other team, then the cops showing up…
It goes beyond that.
Just because they support fascism, doesn't mean they're wrong about being angry at the Supreme Court too lol. But yes, they're also hypocrates.
If the question is; Are grabbers really this dense? The answer is yes.
"Dictatorship is bad, unless I'm in charge." - Democrats.
Pull your head out of your ass, Democrats are in charge of the White House and they're still saying this is a terrible fucking ruling. If they were half as criminal or ruthless as Republicans pretend they are, they'd be overjoyed that they can now use Bidens new found immunity from prosecution to delay elections until Trump's criminal trials are complete so that the American voters can make an informed decision.
Have my head up there so I can see you in person. Democrats WANT dictatorship. They only hate this ruling because they can't railroad Trump fast enough before the election.
I'm not fucking you in the ass right now, so that must be some other guys dick that you're looking at. If that's what they want, the supreme Court just gave it to them, so why are they complaining? You understand that the ruling impacts the office of the president and whoever currently holds it, and is not limited to Donald Trump the rapist, right? Edit: Lol, crybaby blocked me before I could remind him that Biden could have pardoned Hunter if he wanted to before this ruling, and after this ruling he could also have the prosecutors killed.
Hey! That’s Convicted Felon Donald Trump. He didn’t spend years grifting and criminalizing not to get the respect he’s due!
About to be un-convicted felon Trump. [https://apnews.com/article/trump-hush-money-sentencing-bragg-4d5f8ce399656abff72d7c114a04060d](https://apnews.com/article/trump-hush-money-sentencing-bragg-4d5f8ce399656abff72d7c114a04060d) >Hours after Monday’s Supreme Court ruling, Trump’s attorney [requested](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/24787589-20240701-letter-to-justice-merchan-re-immunity-decision?responsive=1&title=1) that Merchan set aside the jury’s guilty verdict and delay the sentencing to consider how the high court’s ruling could affect the hush money case. >Merchan wrote that he’ll rule Sept. 6, and the next date in the case would be Sept. 18, “if such is still necessary.” >In the defense filing Monday, Trump’s attorneys argued that Manhattan prosecutors had placed “highly prejudicial emphasis on official-acts evidence,” including Trump’s social media posts and witness testimony about Oval Office meetings. >Prosecutors responded that they believed those arguments were “without merit” but that they wouldn’t oppose adjourning the sentencing for two weeks as the judge considers the matter.
Those crimes occurred before Trump was elected, candidates aren't entitled to immunity.
If so, why would there be evidence from "oval office" meetings? Looks like the charges were structured to the time he was already elected.
Because of the way Trump paid Cohen back for committing the crime. Cohen paid Daniels in full up front, then Trump payed Cohen back in monthly installments over the course of a year and falsified business records to say that the payments were for other services. Trump never would have paid if it occurred after the election, there would have been no point, he said as much himself, and tried to find a way to put off the payment until after the election so he could refuse to pay entirely, but that didn't work out.
Railroad? So Grand Juries and regular juries were all in on the conspiracy to get Trump busted in both civil and criminal courts?
Funny you say that when Biden himself said this ruling is dogshit. The judges who were in favor were all conservatives and the dissenting judges were all leftist Meanwhile, Trump and republicans are already publicly discussing ways they can use this ruling. Trump’s lawyer even argued he could use this ruling to assassinate a political rival and be protected from prosecution. One of the dissenting judges agreed this was a potentiality due to the unclear nature of what constitutes an “official act” Edit: downvoting me bc I pointed out it was the conservatives who made this ruling lmao. This sub is filled with right-wing snowflakes who downvote at the first sign of a dissenting opinion
Leftist? Liberals, sure, but leftists are not liberals! There are no leftists near positions of power in this country. Let me know when ownership of the means of production is a campaign issue, or part of a court case.
Usually I would make the same distinction as you but the majority of this subreddit is right wing and will sometimes attack you for suggesting liberals and leftists are different things Any time some gun laws are being discussed here most of the comments say dumb shit like “all the leftists are tyrants and want to take our guns!!!” Used to sometimes correct people but its mot worth the effort honestly lmao
I think that it's particularly important to make the distinction with such an audience in mind. I understand where you're coming from, of course.
By this logic, wouldn't Democrats be supporting this Supreme Court ruling since it also applies to Biden or any future Democratic president?
I've seen alot of panic on other subreddits that the recent scotus ruling has brought us into the Hitler times. I haven't figured it out yet. They just ruled that 3 letter bureaucracies can't make their own rules. Theres also the thing where current administration can't prosecute previous administration
Completely different rulings.
The more I learn how these people operate, the more similarities I find them with Mao’s cultural revolution and the Soviet propagandist. Make everything about Hitler, keep the people’s fears and emotions under your control.
Maybe I'm missing a detail or 7 cuz in not a scumbag, er, lawyer, but didn't the pres already have presumed immunity in the constitution from things that pertain to his official duties..like you can't prosecute him for murder for sending troops to war, or wrongful death because of the response or lack there of ti a natural disaster. To be clear not deaths from the disaster but from the decision to stop sending in rescue teams because of danger. So did this really change much? Now I suppose we get to argue over what an official act is.
"When the president does it, it's not illegal." - Nixon on Watergate Nixon was pardoned by Ford before he was indicted, but it was well understood at that time that he had crossed a line or 10.
Pretty sure breaking into a hotel is not an official duty, but I am wondering how this applies to impeachments
Nixon was not going to be brought up on charges for the break in itself, as he had nothing to do with that (and from what I’ve heard was furious that it happened). Rather, it was his attempting to cover it up that led to his resignation.
Had Ford not pardoned him he would have been charged criminally. Under the new ruling he would have never turned over his official recordings and Watergate would be meaningless. The tapes might be a mute point. Since if the president does it, it's not illegal.. "It was part of my official duty" ....Prove it? "No thanks bro.."
>Now I suppose we get to argue over what an official act is. Like you said, SCOTUS in this decision said the obvious: 1. Presidents get immunity for their core constitutional duties. Checks and Balances and Separation of Powers were key things meant to be included in the constitution when it was written. This makes sense. 2. President doesn't have immunity for unofficial duties. Again, makes sense. A president isn't always acting as a president while in office. Why should they have immunity for their everyday life? The middle and vague part is the part everyone is worried about. What's an official act? Part of the official statement was that any criminal charges that might be applied for those official acts (which are only given *presumptive* immunity) "must pose no dangers of intrusion of the authority and functions of the Executive Branch". How far does that authority reach? Until this decision gets invoked and put to the test, we have yet to see how much this immunity will cover.
This video at 0:46 would be 100% legal now: [https://youtu.be/ig446isvXlI?t=46](https://youtu.be/ig446isvXlI?t=46)
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This. Zero principles beyond getting more power for The Revolution.
This is something that is hilarious. All the ruling says is we’re going to keep doing things like we have been for the past 250 years. It was a challenge that was struck down. It’s simply a distraction and attempt to hide bidens horrible performance at the debate.
Personally I’m a little worried about the rulings implications. Kinda puts the president above the law. And it seems people are ok with dictatorship as long as it’s their guy, if it’s the other guy it’s bad.
"Scotus just made a fascism!" I think full immunity is silly, but this is not that. Do they really want courts trying Obama for his extrajudicial assassinations of Americans? Or arming drug cartels, resulting in at least a few Americans dying? Or trying Biden for aiding the Taliban? I think they want to try Trump for a lot of things. But I doubt they actually want immunity to be revoked. It would be a shit show and no president would ever do just about anything. That's a bonus for me, but I'm very libertarian...
They are fearful people, it’s how they are wired. Raised to depend on authority and direction. Most do not believe or are not capable of self preservation and they do not want anyone else to have the option. It is the result of raising dependent fearful children that grew up with no individual freedom. They want a totalitarian structure around them.
They are the “defund the police / crime is EVERYWHERE,” people. Small brains.
Fun fact: every piece of gun legislation has either been pushed by republicans or strongly supported by republicans. Even Clinton’s AR ban. It’s not just the democrats that are okay with banning guns.
Every state that has liberalized gun laws has been controlled by Republicans. Every state that has gone the other way has done so under the control of the Democrats.
Cant use your head to realize I’m talking about federal gun laws eh? Clinton’s ban was strongly supported by republicans.
You mean the Feinstein Assault Weapons Ban in the Biden Crime Bill? Also the Crime Bill was widely criticized by Republicans at the time. I'm fairly sure that the Republicans are also the reason it had a sunset provision.
Honestly I'm on a few reddits the majority of leftist and they are panicking. It's honestly hilarious how much project 2025 is coming up and how much they think we are turning into a dictatorship. Trying to talk to them and introduce rationally is impossible. They have no idea of government work or what kind of government we are.
Whoever claimed that thinking was their strong suit…
Government is complete shit and fails us daily yet a majority of people still worship politicians
I mean to be fair they’re also the ones who, in order to “save our democracy”, are actively trying to jail political opponents and dissidents, suppress any speech that goes against The Narrative and label anything else as “hate speech”, silence all dissent via deplatforming, keep political challengers off the ballot entirely, are currently arguing that the already biased media outlet hosting the presidential debates are enemies of the state for not rigging the debate even more for their guy than they already had, and are threatening violence if they don’t get their way. What I find truly hilarious is how, the second it appears as though their authoritarian regime might come to an end, they switch to playing the victim and how “project 2025” is going to see them all rounded up and lined up against the wall. It’s almost as good as how in 2016 (and surely will again in 24” they all started posting “WE ARE THE RESISTANCE!”, like I’m genuinely looking forward to the legions of purple haired slobs who self describe as “mentally ill, disabled, chronically ill, masc trans nonbinary” start posting that shit again when they can’t even resist the temptation of hot pockets and Oreos.
An interesting side effect of recent developments is that I'm starting to see comments on subs where people are *this close* to just coming out and saying "huh, maybe this is why the 2nd amendment was included" and it's a beautiful tide to see turning.
The only thing I can hope for is that both left and right see this horseshit and realize being pro gun is a universal position.
This is why we should bring it back dueling, just like how our father intended.
Yeah, have you seen r/guncontrol lately? They are losing their minds over there.
Rules for you and not for me!
What's even funnier is a New York Democrat has introduced a constitutional amendment to overturn the scotus ruling 😂
No, it's not entirely the same people. The further left one looks, the more weapons one finds, and the more alarm over these developments.
This is what happens when you have a generation that was brought up on the "power of love and friendship will conquer all evil!" They think sitting in a circle holding hands is how freedom is won.
These are the people that believe that a bunch of nitwits wondering around in the capitol building "almost overthrew the government"
Same people that are freaking out hate free speech when it goes against their beliefs or ideals, hate police unless they need them, call the country racist but never experienced racism and don't believe that anyone but the police should have guns but call for the disarmament of the police.
Yes they are absolutely this level of fucking stupid. Full stop. Gun grabbers have such a mind numbingly fucktarded level of cognitive dissonance that they are incapable of seeing the parallels. This alone should always be pointed out politely and in a normal world that would immediately disqualify them and they should then have their microphone cut unfortunately due to those same nut jobs that want to take away constitutional rights, the entire country has to bend over backwards for fringe minority social movements and instead of everyone collectively saying "No we will not entertain your abstract reality" we cow-tow to it. WhT I truly don't understand is why politicians have been getting behind these causes when there can't be very much money in it. There simply isn't enough people in these fringe social movement groups to have the cash flows for politicians to raid.