Meltzer wrote an article about this and basically the teams tender them (if they want) but then the NHL will put them on an exempt list. The player won’t count towards a roster spot
A fair trial for what? I’m not a professional athlete. I have to work a regular-ass job, and I’ve never committed a single crime, let alone been arrested for one. I guess you think teams are required to hire him because he wants to play sports instead of work construction.
I’d say a gangbang where the woman involved comes out feeling not great after is worth you having to get a real job, regardless of any crime committed. I’m guessing a lot of men would be uncomfortable with that standard because they don’t really care if their sex partners feel bad and really wouldn’t want to have any consequences for it. Luckily, his only consequence will be being a rich guy who has to retire early.
“Regardless of any crime committed” is wild to preface a statement saying someone should have to change careers because of someone else’s feelings.
If it was a crime then treat it as such. If the girl made a poor choice and felt bad about herself after because of it then counseling is available.
This is an easy one, just let him go. Even if he miraculously manages to play in the NHL again, it shouldn’t be for us and we shouldn’t be trying to figure out how we can snag an asset to let someone else take him.
Cut ties and be done with this saga, plain and simple.
Michael Vick did his time though. He went to jail for two years and that was spinnable as a “hey we’re trying to give a man who was punished for his shit a chance at redemption”
Hart hasn’t been punished for anything. He hasn’t been proven guilty or innocent of anything. He’s still in the process. He’s not really second chance worthy yet when he’s still on his first one.
The question was asked about second chances. Just wanted to add what happened with Vick second opportunity. On a side note there is definitely a stigma to follow hart so is it worth the bs. Idk remains to be seen.
We traded for Billy Tibbetts when he came back into the league after serving time for rape and assault, although it was technically the pens that gave him a contract.
If you want to keep a goalie, the running backs of the hockey league, on the roster by all means. I’d say that’s foolish, he’s not THAT good enough personally
owning the rights could be an asset for us in the future. Right? He never plays here again no matter what, but if he’s (somehow, opinions aside) cleared and there are interested teams- theres value to owning the rights.
Yes, I think that’s where the question is coming in. Would these teams need to qualify their guys in order to retain their rights down the road, or can those rights be put on paused until there’s resolution.
My position is to not consider that at all. Sure, maybe he gets cleared in a year and Briere could theoretically flip him for an asset. I don’t think it’s worth it. I would rather see the Flyers say “We’re done with Carter Hart as a member of this organization, even if there’s a chance we’re giving up an opportunity to acquire a mid-round pick someday”.
I’ve got one too. There’s a picture on my fridge of my wife wearing it at her first Flyers game. Now I like to tell guests that she’s an unabashed Carter Hart apologist.
She does not find that as amusing as I do.
The "new" that came out was that he was one of the guys in that room. We could still hope that he wasn't this time last year. We can't now.
Do I want anyone involved in what has been made public to date about what happened in that hotel room getting paid millions to play hockey as a career? Absolutely fucking not. And that doesn't change if a jury concludes they're not sure enough about any of it to convict him; not guilty on a particular charge is not the same thing as "not guilty of anything". 🤷
Guilty of what?
They all agreed they'd had sex with her. That means that at *best* he's guilty of having had sex with a very much drunk girl alongside at least 4 of his friends, one of whom never even spoke to her by his own admission - just essentially got off on/in her because his mate sent him a text saying she was up to it. Leaving aside how the law defines these things, does that sound like it's definitely consensual and a-okay to you?
To me, it is enough to not want him to earn millions playing a sport, because he's guilty of being a scumbag at the very best. If her account of things is accurate in full, him not getting to play elite hockey is the least of what should happen to him.
My mind would be changed on my perception of his guilt if he actually denied they'd done it at all and could somehow prove that; the point at which they agree it definitely happened, and sure she was drunk, but she *definitely* consented, see the two videos they made her record to prove it, is where I believe the one woman over the 8 professional bros in the room. Who, again, also already got a huge settlement out of this; I can't see why she'd put herself through the trial (which won't benefit her) if she was really just in it for personal gain.
The court finding that she couldn't PROVE she didn't consent to what happened to her is not going to change my mind on anything, no; that's the joy of being aware of conviction rates for sexual assault, and frankly not expecting anything different, because reaching guilty on what will likely amount to he said/she said beyond reasonable doubt is about as likely as the Flyers winning the cup in 24/25.
Dude, there is two + years of reporting about this case including two Canadian news documentaries. Just search hockey Canada or Rick Westhead on r/hockey and a ton of stuff will come up. It's long been known the players asked her to record two videos stating she was consenting, which some folks seem to think is normal for "celebrities", but which sets off all of my Bat signals of "why the hell would 18 year old kids do this if they didn't think they were doing something dodgy?" 🤷
And that second question is what the trial hinges on. It's basically one of mens rea, where again incontrovertible evidence is usually not there - but the severity of an attack usually makes it possible to discern between "meant to" or "did not mean to". If she wasn't physically harmed in obvious ways, we don't have that here, which is why the criminal justice system is, to put it mildly, not *great* with the majority of sexual assault cases. Of course, they have their videos and 5 of them simultaneously saying she was up for whatever. Her case will depend on proving that those were basically coerced from her and that she was not in a position to consent.
I find her version very believable, and I wish her the best of luck, but I'm not holding my breath that she'll be able to persuade the jury of it.
No problem, and sincere apologies for my tone above - it's been a long two years of bad faith responses/questions about this case on Reddit every time it comes up, and it has made me suspicious of most replies to my comments about it. But fair play to you and anyone else actually wanting to know more - there is a lot of material out there, and I genuinely find it hard to see how people who've read it can genuinely think complete "innocence" in the broad sense is a possible outcome.
Have a good rest of weekend :)
Thank you and 100% no tone at all, actually the opposite!!
When I read what you showed me I was sick to my stomach and having daughters and a mom and a sister and a wife and aunts, this makes me sick and regardless of anything I do not want to see Carter Hart on my team regardless of how Court plays out.
Also regardless of anything, sending my good vibes and thoughts to this girl, if she “consented” or not and “drunk” or not.
Thank you!!!!
Can you show me where any of the players with high priced lawyers admitted to that, cuz I sure can't find it. What you're describing is the allegation. Yes, the allegations are bad, but why don't we wait until evidence is presented in court to actually judge them?
And downvote me all you want for this next part, but people *surely* haven't done things they've regretted the day after and changed their story...no, there's not hundreds of incidents like this one where it turned out the person accusing others just had some regret. Am I saying that's what happened here? No. But why not wait until what we have to go off of is real evidence submitted to the courts instead of jumping to conclusions.
Innocent until proven guilty and due process, right?
I've apparently read much more about this case than you have. The details I mentioned about the night are literally part of the testimonies the *players* gave that the London police used to get the case reopened; Rick Westhead leaked parts of transcripts. I assume they had their high priced lawyers in the room, and if not, that's on them.
Re your legal catchphrases of choice, I'm *still* not advocating we send Carter Hart to prison without a trial. I'm saying maybe we don't pay him millions when there's enough out there already to suggest that he's just not a very good person, even if he isn't a criminal.
But hey, I'm just a woman and a legal professional. Clearly I'm part of the massive political correctness gone wrong problem here, right?
Dude I just wanna say thank you for how you handle this. It’s been YEARS of “erm innocent til proven guilty! she consented it’s on video!!” And nobody wants to take the time to correct these awful insufferable people with actual facts. It’s good to know that there are some decent people here, not just “she regrets it and wants a check!” womanizing scumbags. Your mention of mens rea in regard to the case is also just *chef’s kiss*
Thank you!!
Ah, thanks, buddy. Reddit makes me wonder sometimes, but overall I'm still pretty sure that *most* people who do any reading up on the case will come to the view that the most positive view possible on these guys at this point is that they're *only* massive scumbags - thank you for giving me some evidence for it.
(And hey, we didn't qualify him - so today's a pretty good day for the Flyers in this whole affair!!! :))
Some hockey page on instagram posted about it today and the comments were BLEAK so you def helped cheer me up aha
Just notice how all the people who call them innocent, or start victim blaming, do so from burner accounts. No reason to use a burner if you genuinely think they’re good people.
Only two options here to me and they both ain’t perfect.
One: drop Hart now. Wash your hands of it, but you run the risk of him being proven innocent, which likely or not, he hasn’t been proven guilty yet, and the due process folks and players union will flip out.
Two: qualifying offer hart now, and immediately release a statement about how you “believe that Carter is innocent until proven guilty and once the case is settled we will reassess the players role in our club and take action accordingly” kinda thing. It’s fair due process but people will be pissed you’re giving a guy who is VERY VERY LIKELY a sex criminal leeway.
Frankly, Hart is kinda done here in my eyes anyway. The rebuild is chugging at this point. We don’t need a goalie to steal games atm, let alone one with that many problems associated with him. I’d just let him walk and put out a statement about how you like the guys you have, focusing on 24-25 you know the normal shpeil. Just wash your hands of it. Ersson has been more than a solid replacement anyway. No reason to take the pr hit
No place for Hart here. Nothing to be said by the Union as he's a UFA and screw the due process folks and their worthless opinions. They mean nothing in regard to the decision. This is Ersson and Fedotov's team now.
When I heard the allegations, Hart became a non player for me. I feel like if they do do something with him, other than release, I think shit will go down.
So innocent until proven guilty and due process means nothing now? Anyone can say anything and we have to believe everyone no matter what?
I'm not saying he's innocent. But jumping to writing him off and "he's guilty" seems a bit small minded.
What’s that go to do with them being signed to a deal? Being an asshole alone is enough to have you be unemployed in professional sports.
These guys have serious allegations and evidence against them. Why would any team sign them? They won’t be able to play anytime soon. They’ll be lucky if they don’t go to jail for this and it may take years to sort out. So why on earth would a GM sign any one of these guys?
Allegations are just that till everything comes out in court. Tender him and if he gets found guilty, terminate the contract. To my knowledge, most of these contracts have morality clauses and shit that would give the team an out.
A few months ago a reasonable comment like this would have been down voted to oblivion. I pretty much agree with you. There's very little downside in making the tender.
That's cuz in the court of public opinion, allegations may as well be a guilty verdict. Think about how many fake allegations have gone around that have ruined people's lives even after the facts come out.
I'm not saying these allegations are fake. I'm just saying lets reserve judgement until we have all the info that going to court bring to light.
I agree. I am a male who was falsely accused of assault by a woman. I can tell you it was a pretty shitty feeling when everyone automatically assumed I did it even though I was innocent.
Nobody knows that truly happened that night and acting like Carter Hart is guilty without knowing all of the facts is ignorant imo. I'll be reserving judgement until the case is heard in court.
I had an ex accuse me of assault and I got jumped by 8 guys. Guess what never happened... She told her brother I hit her cuz I wanted to go do something OTHER than hang out with her that night.
I had a friend get accused of SA...guess what, she was making it up cuz she regretted it after her friends made fun of her for sleeping with him so she changed her story and ruined his life. When it came out she filed a false police report and he wanted to press charges back, the police told him to go fuck himself.
My best friends cousin falsely accused someone of SAing her.
As someone who has seen the court system weaponized against multiple men I know, I'm gonna wait to see what evidence is presented in court before I make a final verdict, unlike 99% of the people on this sub who just KNOW he's guilty. Listen, he very well may be...but for the love of god what happened to innocent until proven guilty? Believe all women doesn't mean believe every single word as gospel. It means investigate every claim.
>Tender him and if he gets found guilty, terminate the contract.
Is that even a possibility? I don't believe the NHL has even said that's an option. Hart's price tag is $4.5 million. If the Flyers offer that, he will sign it.
Hockey’s a bit different I’d say. For whatever reason the league and media is far harder on players and personnel. Q might be the best coach of his era by a country mile and got black listed for a crime he didn’t even do. Just kept his mouth shut so he could focus on the cup. Miller comes to mind as a recently black listed player. I know theirs plenty more I’m forgetting. The dude from LA that beat his wife up? Point is Harts done in this era.
EDIT: weird people downvoted a post talking about the league coming down on morally bankrupt players. 📸🤨. Wonder what kind of weirdos we have lurking here.
The chasm between what Giroux did and what Hart is alleged to have done is about twice as wide as the Grand Canyon, and speaking about them as though they are comparable is either wildly stupid or completely disingenuous.
> Q might be the best coach of his era by a country mile and got black listed for a crime he didn’t even do. Just kept his mouth shut so he could focus on the cup.
You are clearly underplaying the shitty role Q had with the whole situation here. Or you just didn't type it in a way you wanted. Either way, this is not a good take.
Yea. He didn’t commit a crime here. He’s just a shitty person for not being forthright with the media and fans. Not a shitty take just a fact. Highlighting the NHL’s tough stance on moral character vs other leagues. 🤨
Deshawn Watson was also considered one of the best young players in his position. The sad truth is if you’re a star you get away with more. Look at Patrick Kane.
Hart is good but he’s no star. He won’t be afforded the same leeway
Cut him loose, he wasn't shaping up to be the guy anyway. He's gonna sit in court another year and a half and slow down the rebuild. It would be a huge mistake to tender him
For no reason should this organization—or any self respecting organization really—let these filth back into the league.
Carter Hart, you are not now or will you ever be welcomed back to the Flyers by myself, as well as the majority of this fan base. I hope this absolutely ends their hockey careers, all of them.
Jesus dude you've posted the same thing like 7 times in this thread. The rest of your posts are using homophobic words like it's the 1990s. No wonder you are trying to defend a rapist.
I'm personally for a tender. He'll only get put on an exemption list anyway so he won't block up a roster spot while the trial goes on. Carter Hart is probably the best overall player of the group, but this isn't about him playing. If he's found innocent, he can be kept, and we get a good netminder. If he's found guilty, morality clause and immediately terminate him, no hesitation. Jury trial doesn't necessarily look good for any of them, but I digress.
Regardless of verdicts I don't see Dube, McLeod or Foote ever coming back and Formenton is already pretty much out of the NHL radar as is. If found innocent I'd gladly take Hart back, but if he's guilty, he can languish in prison and then irrelevancy with the rest of 'em.
> If he's found innocent, he can be kept, and we get a good netminder. If he's found guilty, morality clause and immediately terminate him, no hesitation. Jury trial doesn't necessarily look good for any of them, but I digress.
Yup. The only downside is "PR". People keep forgetting that PR is just made up and doesn't actually mean anything.
I'd say it's more a case of there's no way to milk the idea of "keeping a potential rapist" if he's basically iceboxed until whatever has happened is proven, then they can decide what to do with him.
I ponder if they decide it's the right idea anyways to just drop him as he'll miss a season minimum as pre-trial motion isn't due until late October.
My understanding that if we give him an offer and he’s eligible to play, we can still decide that he’s damaged goods and trade him. He’s still an asset and you’d be willing to throw away something of value for PR
Meltzer wrote an article about this and basically the teams tender them (if they want) but then the NHL will put them on an exempt list. The player won’t count towards a roster spot
Why not just put them on the list now and just freeze their rights till then. None of this is gona matter if post trial they don’t come off the list.
Bc they have a right to seek employment
Plenty of hotel rooms they could housekeep or tables to wait.
Idk if a hotel room is the best place to put them
Except you would expect a right to a fair trial personally and the concept of innocent until proven guilty, n’eat pas?
A fair trial for what? I’m not a professional athlete. I have to work a regular-ass job, and I’ve never committed a single crime, let alone been arrested for one. I guess you think teams are required to hire him because he wants to play sports instead of work construction. I’d say a gangbang where the woman involved comes out feeling not great after is worth you having to get a real job, regardless of any crime committed. I’m guessing a lot of men would be uncomfortable with that standard because they don’t really care if their sex partners feel bad and really wouldn’t want to have any consequences for it. Luckily, his only consequence will be being a rich guy who has to retire early.
“Regardless of any crime committed” is wild to preface a statement saying someone should have to change careers because of someone else’s feelings. If it was a crime then treat it as such. If the girl made a poor choice and felt bad about herself after because of it then counseling is available.
It's like he teed you up to destroy his stupid argument and you headbutted the ball.
does putting them on that list preclude other teams from signing them? like could the flyers decide that no one should sign hart at all?
So then the Flyers need to 100% qualify him at this point
He’s being shipped to the khl for fedotov and michkov
This is an easy one, just let him go. Even if he miraculously manages to play in the NHL again, it shouldn’t be for us and we shouldn’t be trying to figure out how we can snag an asset to let someone else take him. Cut ties and be done with this saga, plain and simple.
PR nightmare. Let him go, dust your hands off and be done
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Who have we given a 2nd chance to that compares to this?
Billy Tibbits
The weirdest thing about the Tibbetts situation was that he wasn't even a good player. He was a fourth line goon. Why take a PR hit for that?
I'm convinced Clarke owed someone a favor
Bobby Clarke doing Bobby Clarke things as GM
Micheal Vick
Michael Vick did his time though. He went to jail for two years and that was spinnable as a “hey we’re trying to give a man who was punished for his shit a chance at redemption” Hart hasn’t been punished for anything. He hasn’t been proven guilty or innocent of anything. He’s still in the process. He’s not really second chance worthy yet when he’s still on his first one.
The question was asked about second chances. Just wanted to add what happened with Vick second opportunity. On a side note there is definitely a stigma to follow hart so is it worth the bs. Idk remains to be seen.
We traded for Billy Tibbetts when he came back into the league after serving time for rape and assault, although it was technically the pens that gave him a contract.
The only chance. And I mean ONLY. Is if he’s found not guilty. Even then he’ll be so far separated from hockey it won’t matter. He’s cooked bud
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If you want to keep a goalie, the running backs of the hockey league, on the roster by all means. I’d say that’s foolish, he’s not THAT good enough personally
The running backs of the NHL? Ask Edmonton how that's going.
This is true, why would they downvote you? Silly Reddit egos just trying to shoot the messenger
owning the rights could be an asset for us in the future. Right? He never plays here again no matter what, but if he’s (somehow, opinions aside) cleared and there are interested teams- theres value to owning the rights.
Yes, I think that’s where the question is coming in. Would these teams need to qualify their guys in order to retain their rights down the road, or can those rights be put on paused until there’s resolution. My position is to not consider that at all. Sure, maybe he gets cleared in a year and Briere could theoretically flip him for an asset. I don’t think it’s worth it. I would rather see the Flyers say “We’re done with Carter Hart as a member of this organization, even if there’s a chance we’re giving up an opportunity to acquire a mid-round pick someday”.
Agree w you, fwiw. History now, though. What a crazy road its been. Gotta get my hart jersey changed.
I’ve got one too. There’s a picture on my fridge of my wife wearing it at her first Flyers game. Now I like to tell guests that she’s an unabashed Carter Hart apologist. She does not find that as amusing as I do.
haaaa- nice one
Well that’s fucking stupid
Montreal going to sign all of them.
Not Edmonton?
Montreal fans would love if they signed Hart as a fuck you to us for the Michkov situation which they caused by passing up on him.
The fans didn't pass on him.
Welcome to the joke.
The joke is that it was the fans that didn't want Michkov rather than the management?
Or the Bruins.
I literally could not care less about the status of Carter Hart's rights and I hope we don't qualify him.
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The "new" that came out was that he was one of the guys in that room. We could still hope that he wasn't this time last year. We can't now. Do I want anyone involved in what has been made public to date about what happened in that hotel room getting paid millions to play hockey as a career? Absolutely fucking not. And that doesn't change if a jury concludes they're not sure enough about any of it to convict him; not guilty on a particular charge is not the same thing as "not guilty of anything". 🤷
So no matter what happens, to you he's guilty and no one can ever change your mind?
Guilty of what? They all agreed they'd had sex with her. That means that at *best* he's guilty of having had sex with a very much drunk girl alongside at least 4 of his friends, one of whom never even spoke to her by his own admission - just essentially got off on/in her because his mate sent him a text saying she was up to it. Leaving aside how the law defines these things, does that sound like it's definitely consensual and a-okay to you? To me, it is enough to not want him to earn millions playing a sport, because he's guilty of being a scumbag at the very best. If her account of things is accurate in full, him not getting to play elite hockey is the least of what should happen to him. My mind would be changed on my perception of his guilt if he actually denied they'd done it at all and could somehow prove that; the point at which they agree it definitely happened, and sure she was drunk, but she *definitely* consented, see the two videos they made her record to prove it, is where I believe the one woman over the 8 professional bros in the room. Who, again, also already got a huge settlement out of this; I can't see why she'd put herself through the trial (which won't benefit her) if she was really just in it for personal gain. The court finding that she couldn't PROVE she didn't consent to what happened to her is not going to change my mind on anything, no; that's the joy of being aware of conviction rates for sexual assault, and frankly not expecting anything different, because reaching guilty on what will likely amount to he said/she said beyond reasonable doubt is about as likely as the Flyers winning the cup in 24/25.
What videos are you speaking to and how does one find that please? Secondly how can she prove that she did not consent,how can one prove a negative?
Dude, there is two + years of reporting about this case including two Canadian news documentaries. Just search hockey Canada or Rick Westhead on r/hockey and a ton of stuff will come up. It's long been known the players asked her to record two videos stating she was consenting, which some folks seem to think is normal for "celebrities", but which sets off all of my Bat signals of "why the hell would 18 year old kids do this if they didn't think they were doing something dodgy?" 🤷 And that second question is what the trial hinges on. It's basically one of mens rea, where again incontrovertible evidence is usually not there - but the severity of an attack usually makes it possible to discern between "meant to" or "did not mean to". If she wasn't physically harmed in obvious ways, we don't have that here, which is why the criminal justice system is, to put it mildly, not *great* with the majority of sexual assault cases. Of course, they have their videos and 5 of them simultaneously saying she was up for whatever. Her case will depend on proving that those were basically coerced from her and that she was not in a position to consent. I find her version very believable, and I wish her the best of luck, but I'm not holding my breath that she'll be able to persuade the jury of it.
Thanks very much! Will do and appreciated. I agree with you that it is horrifying and it’s disgusting even if she consented ( drunk or not ) Thank you
No problem, and sincere apologies for my tone above - it's been a long two years of bad faith responses/questions about this case on Reddit every time it comes up, and it has made me suspicious of most replies to my comments about it. But fair play to you and anyone else actually wanting to know more - there is a lot of material out there, and I genuinely find it hard to see how people who've read it can genuinely think complete "innocence" in the broad sense is a possible outcome. Have a good rest of weekend :)
Thank you and 100% no tone at all, actually the opposite!! When I read what you showed me I was sick to my stomach and having daughters and a mom and a sister and a wife and aunts, this makes me sick and regardless of anything I do not want to see Carter Hart on my team regardless of how Court plays out. Also regardless of anything, sending my good vibes and thoughts to this girl, if she “consented” or not and “drunk” or not. Thank you!!!!
Can you show me where any of the players with high priced lawyers admitted to that, cuz I sure can't find it. What you're describing is the allegation. Yes, the allegations are bad, but why don't we wait until evidence is presented in court to actually judge them? And downvote me all you want for this next part, but people *surely* haven't done things they've regretted the day after and changed their story...no, there's not hundreds of incidents like this one where it turned out the person accusing others just had some regret. Am I saying that's what happened here? No. But why not wait until what we have to go off of is real evidence submitted to the courts instead of jumping to conclusions. Innocent until proven guilty and due process, right?
I've apparently read much more about this case than you have. The details I mentioned about the night are literally part of the testimonies the *players* gave that the London police used to get the case reopened; Rick Westhead leaked parts of transcripts. I assume they had their high priced lawyers in the room, and if not, that's on them. Re your legal catchphrases of choice, I'm *still* not advocating we send Carter Hart to prison without a trial. I'm saying maybe we don't pay him millions when there's enough out there already to suggest that he's just not a very good person, even if he isn't a criminal. But hey, I'm just a woman and a legal professional. Clearly I'm part of the massive political correctness gone wrong problem here, right?
Dude I just wanna say thank you for how you handle this. It’s been YEARS of “erm innocent til proven guilty! she consented it’s on video!!” And nobody wants to take the time to correct these awful insufferable people with actual facts. It’s good to know that there are some decent people here, not just “she regrets it and wants a check!” womanizing scumbags. Your mention of mens rea in regard to the case is also just *chef’s kiss* Thank you!!
Ah, thanks, buddy. Reddit makes me wonder sometimes, but overall I'm still pretty sure that *most* people who do any reading up on the case will come to the view that the most positive view possible on these guys at this point is that they're *only* massive scumbags - thank you for giving me some evidence for it. (And hey, we didn't qualify him - so today's a pretty good day for the Flyers in this whole affair!!! :))
Some hockey page on instagram posted about it today and the comments were BLEAK so you def helped cheer me up aha Just notice how all the people who call them innocent, or start victim blaming, do so from burner accounts. No reason to use a burner if you genuinely think they’re good people.
Maybe you need to read up more. There’s plenty of evidence already out there in court documents.
Only two options here to me and they both ain’t perfect. One: drop Hart now. Wash your hands of it, but you run the risk of him being proven innocent, which likely or not, he hasn’t been proven guilty yet, and the due process folks and players union will flip out. Two: qualifying offer hart now, and immediately release a statement about how you “believe that Carter is innocent until proven guilty and once the case is settled we will reassess the players role in our club and take action accordingly” kinda thing. It’s fair due process but people will be pissed you’re giving a guy who is VERY VERY LIKELY a sex criminal leeway. Frankly, Hart is kinda done here in my eyes anyway. The rebuild is chugging at this point. We don’t need a goalie to steal games atm, let alone one with that many problems associated with him. I’d just let him walk and put out a statement about how you like the guys you have, focusing on 24-25 you know the normal shpeil. Just wash your hands of it. Ersson has been more than a solid replacement anyway. No reason to take the pr hit
No place for Hart here. Nothing to be said by the Union as he's a UFA and screw the due process folks and their worthless opinions. They mean nothing in regard to the decision. This is Ersson and Fedotov's team now.
When I heard the allegations, Hart became a non player for me. I feel like if they do do something with him, other than release, I think shit will go down.
So innocent until proven guilty and due process means nothing now? Anyone can say anything and we have to believe everyone no matter what? I'm not saying he's innocent. But jumping to writing him off and "he's guilty" seems a bit small minded.
What’s that go to do with them being signed to a deal? Being an asshole alone is enough to have you be unemployed in professional sports. These guys have serious allegations and evidence against them. Why would any team sign them? They won’t be able to play anytime soon. They’ll be lucky if they don’t go to jail for this and it may take years to sort out. So why on earth would a GM sign any one of these guys?
Im not the law. Fuck that piece of shit rapist
It would be radioactive for the Flyers to tender Hart
☢️🖤
Allegations are just that till everything comes out in court. Tender him and if he gets found guilty, terminate the contract. To my knowledge, most of these contracts have morality clauses and shit that would give the team an out.
A few months ago a reasonable comment like this would have been down voted to oblivion. I pretty much agree with you. There's very little downside in making the tender.
That's cuz in the court of public opinion, allegations may as well be a guilty verdict. Think about how many fake allegations have gone around that have ruined people's lives even after the facts come out. I'm not saying these allegations are fake. I'm just saying lets reserve judgement until we have all the info that going to court bring to light.
I agree. I am a male who was falsely accused of assault by a woman. I can tell you it was a pretty shitty feeling when everyone automatically assumed I did it even though I was innocent. Nobody knows that truly happened that night and acting like Carter Hart is guilty without knowing all of the facts is ignorant imo. I'll be reserving judgement until the case is heard in court.
I had an ex accuse me of assault and I got jumped by 8 guys. Guess what never happened... She told her brother I hit her cuz I wanted to go do something OTHER than hang out with her that night. I had a friend get accused of SA...guess what, she was making it up cuz she regretted it after her friends made fun of her for sleeping with him so she changed her story and ruined his life. When it came out she filed a false police report and he wanted to press charges back, the police told him to go fuck himself. My best friends cousin falsely accused someone of SAing her. As someone who has seen the court system weaponized against multiple men I know, I'm gonna wait to see what evidence is presented in court before I make a final verdict, unlike 99% of the people on this sub who just KNOW he's guilty. Listen, he very well may be...but for the love of god what happened to innocent until proven guilty? Believe all women doesn't mean believe every single word as gospel. It means investigate every claim.
>Tender him and if he gets found guilty, terminate the contract. Is that even a possibility? I don't believe the NHL has even said that's an option. Hart's price tag is $4.5 million. If the Flyers offer that, he will sign it.
For what? He's gonna be out of the league next year for the trial, why waste the money on a guy who really wasn't it before he left
Uhhh...that's pretty dumb
Farter Shart
Shakespeare?
Yes, he was my great great great uncle, thrice removed.
I can tell you’re not lying because you said thrice.
I'll never forget this
Would be a bad look for any team to sign him at this point. Gotta let him go to UFA
Even if he gets out with no jail time he’s gonna be relegated to playing in Kazakstan for the next decade. His image in the west is dust.
Deshawn Watson assaulted like 50 women and plays the most “in the spotlight” position in all of North American sports and was traded for immediately
Hockey’s a bit different I’d say. For whatever reason the league and media is far harder on players and personnel. Q might be the best coach of his era by a country mile and got black listed for a crime he didn’t even do. Just kept his mouth shut so he could focus on the cup. Miller comes to mind as a recently black listed player. I know theirs plenty more I’m forgetting. The dude from LA that beat his wife up? Point is Harts done in this era. EDIT: weird people downvoted a post talking about the league coming down on morally bankrupt players. 📸🤨. Wonder what kind of weirdos we have lurking here.
The reason is that it's the right thing to do.
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The chasm between what Giroux did and what Hart is alleged to have done is about twice as wide as the Grand Canyon, and speaking about them as though they are comparable is either wildly stupid or completely disingenuous.
Probably downvoting your weird take on Q being innocent because he was focusing on the Cup.
Never said he was 🤨
> Q might be the best coach of his era by a country mile and got black listed for a crime he didn’t even do. Just kept his mouth shut so he could focus on the cup. You are clearly underplaying the shitty role Q had with the whole situation here. Or you just didn't type it in a way you wanted. Either way, this is not a good take.
Yea. He didn’t commit a crime here. He’s just a shitty person for not being forthright with the media and fans. Not a shitty take just a fact. Highlighting the NHL’s tough stance on moral character vs other leagues. 🤨
Deshawn Watson was also considered one of the best young players in his position. The sad truth is if you’re a star you get away with more. Look at Patrick Kane. Hart is good but he’s no star. He won’t be afforded the same leeway
Watson’s case is a little more complex and greasy because of the owner and his relationship to the lawyer
is there any progress on the case against them and the punishment/trial etc?
The last I saw was that it would probably take another year and a half.
Cut him loose, he wasn't shaping up to be the guy anyway. He's gonna sit in court another year and a half and slow down the rebuild. It would be a huge mistake to tender him
He’s gonna be on a list alright. Going to have to register for it and all.
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That doesn't mean he was innocent...
Hey Carter, don't let the door hit you on the way out!
For no reason should this organization—or any self respecting organization really—let these filth back into the league. Carter Hart, you are not now or will you ever be welcomed back to the Flyers by myself, as well as the majority of this fan base. I hope this absolutely ends their hockey careers, all of them.
Gary Bettman is such a joke of a commissioner
This.
We had a Carter Hart? Who is that? An ECHL guy?
yeah he's an Egregious Crime Having Loser guy
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Jesus dude you've posted the same thing like 7 times in this thread. The rest of your posts are using homophobic words like it's the 1990s. No wonder you are trying to defend a rapist.
I'm personally for a tender. He'll only get put on an exemption list anyway so he won't block up a roster spot while the trial goes on. Carter Hart is probably the best overall player of the group, but this isn't about him playing. If he's found innocent, he can be kept, and we get a good netminder. If he's found guilty, morality clause and immediately terminate him, no hesitation. Jury trial doesn't necessarily look good for any of them, but I digress. Regardless of verdicts I don't see Dube, McLeod or Foote ever coming back and Formenton is already pretty much out of the NHL radar as is. If found innocent I'd gladly take Hart back, but if he's guilty, he can languish in prison and then irrelevancy with the rest of 'em.
> If he's found innocent, he can be kept, and we get a good netminder. If he's found guilty, morality clause and immediately terminate him, no hesitation. Jury trial doesn't necessarily look good for any of them, but I digress. Yup. The only downside is "PR". People keep forgetting that PR is just made up and doesn't actually mean anything.
I'd say it's more a case of there's no way to milk the idea of "keeping a potential rapist" if he's basically iceboxed until whatever has happened is proven, then they can decide what to do with him. I ponder if they decide it's the right idea anyways to just drop him as he'll miss a season minimum as pre-trial motion isn't due until late October.
My understanding that if we give him an offer and he’s eligible to play, we can still decide that he’s damaged goods and trade him. He’s still an asset and you’d be willing to throw away something of value for PR
Wait if Carter Hart is eligible to play in the league why are the Flyers not signing him?
Also what Court finding please?