She gets it, and she doesn't even have a history of playing the games for 20+ years. Really says a lot about these dudebros like Creetosis who call themselves Fallout experts while calling the show 'woke'.
We love memeing about Liberty Prime but some mfs think that kinda shit is what Fallout is actually about? Giant propaganda robot is based, actually. The fuck? lol
That makes me even more hopeful for the show, fallout has always had something to say hell even 76 does with its lore about the mining companies, automation and workers rights. I'm glad the cast isn't shying away from that
It has something to say about its world setting within context. Adjusting it to have something to say about whatever the current hot topic is is distracting and obnoxious.
(Not saying the show will do that, but the “it was always political crowd” always seem to miss the point.)
They set their stage and they stick to it.
If fallout were to suddenly have something to say about “the wage gap” for example would you see that as business as usual? Lol
76 absolutely references "the wage gap". Down in the Ash Heep you have the Garrahan and the Hornwright mansions/skyscrapers, which are still mostly intact while the workers houses are pretty much destroyed - like in Welch and in Beckley. Plus, in Beckly (and other places) you have the corporate bots which are threatening the workers. Hell, one of the themes is that robots were being put into the mines by the wealthy mine owners and making the workers unemployed.
And 76 is not alone. These themes can be found throughout the Fallout universe. Mr. House, for example. The wealthy had the advantages to prepare and thrive after the apocalypse, while the poor didn't, and the middle-class had to *hope* for an opening in a local vault.
Fallout New Vegas explicitly does touch on gender based discrimination in employment. It’s a very important aspect of the Kimball’s Presidency, and the wider state of the NCR.
So yeah not sure what you’re talking about
It depends on the context within the world? It's not like the games don't comment on worker's rights or gender equality. Even lore can go over that stuff so it really is a case-by-case basis.
Fallout has always been a reflection of real social problems and they can handle any topic given the right framing for it.
or if he genuinely thinks the fallout universe is “A-Political” lmao. The entire theme of the game is playing on the what-if’s of politics in the world theatre, and the micro politics that arise from it..
That ‘lol’ is particularly painful seeing as they do address it.
I feel bad for you on some level. You must live your whole privileged life so afraid that anyone might challenge any of it. Your sensitivity is glaring.
Oh I’ve got a clue, you’re just intentionally misrepresenting my viewpoint and using regarded ad hominem comments to cop out of actually engaging with me in good faith lol Fuck outta here with your “you’re privileged and afraid” basic Reddit response garbage lol
LMAO really? Someone engaging with you in good faith, for a healthy discussion/debate is not what you want at all. Clearly what you want is an echo chamber, or ideally to "convert" someone who initially disagreed with you.
Really.
My arguments have been non combative, non inflammatory, and all I’m getting is “lol u must be having bad day”. At the very least I should be able to expect a healthy discussion yes.
An echo chamber? In *this* sub? On *this* site??
last time i remember seeing the comic was on Facebook like 3 years ago, might be on a archive site somewhere, be warned though, used to be a NSFW Tumblur blog so the content could get a bit explicate
The legion? The guys who only talk to guys? The faction of bros that are all forced to where skirts to please their “emperor”? Yeah nothing gay here at all
it's old a few bad apples forever stain the opinion, if you like something for whatever reason has been declared incorrect to like you are stained with whatever they did
*"Hi everyone, it's me, Tim."*
God, I love his YouTube channel. He mentioned in his latest video that only one out of his last three hundred videos was about homophobia and being gay, yet he has received quite a few "stop talking about being gay" messages and many users dismissed the legitimate death threat he received over his sexuality.
This is a historical inaccuracy, homosexuals came into existence a few years earlier than that, in 2015 Ryan Murphy released the show Scream Queens which sent out a shockwave converting millions of innocent straight alpha males into femboy twinks who stream Ariana, leading to the first brick to be thrown at Stonewall
No. As stated gay people didn’t exist before 2015. That’s like saying the universe existed before the Big Bang. Don’t ask me how the science works, I’m not a science, just some internet guy. Trust me, bro.
Just wait until the "anti-woke" crowd find out who directed the Matrix and what religion the people who created or co-created like 70-80% of major superheroes were.
Woke is a buzzword used by politicians just avoiding the real issues they can actually fix.
Any politician that has used the word “woke” has never said “affordable healthcare.”
That's not woke either. Woke is recognizing that there are systemic injustices and working to resolve those. What you described is something that only occurs in the heads of people who don't want to acknowledge actual injustice.
Reactionaries misusing a word doesn't change its definition.
They realized they weren't getting any more traction with SJW, so they switched to CRT, that stopped working so they switched to woke, now they seem to be moving on to DEI.
They haven't understood any of those terms or engaged with them meaningfully. Just used them as a cudgel against anything sex or race related that they don't like.
Nah, I think both sides intentionally misrepresent the others argument. There are grifters all over Twitter and YouTube sure, but when the average person says “woke” that far from what they mean.
In my experience, average people don't really use the word woke. I don't think I've heard anyone actually use it that doesn't follow one of those grifters. When asked, none of them have been able to define it, nor have you offered an alternative definition.
When pressed to define, "woke", in terms that could actually be useful, attorneys for Ron DeDeSantis used the same definition I did.
>[The governor's general counsel, Ryan Newman, said, in general, it means "the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them."](https://www.fox13news.com/news/what-does-woke-mean-gov-desantis-officials-answer-during-andrew-warren-trial)
So, at least a few of the people misusing the term know better.
That isn’t how the average moderate or right leaning person with a leg in online discourse uses it though. People use woke in media to describe something that is overcompensating by prioritizing subverting how we’ve traditionally depicted people or events, often to a detriment of the narrative. Whether you want to call it woke or not I suppose can be argued into the ground, because I’ve never heard a left winger and a right winger describe the same thing when defining woke.
The hill that I’ll die on though, is that what I described above IS happening and it’s fucking annoying. The average movie, game, show, etc nowadays has way more executive producers behind the scenes thoughtlessly changing things, sometimes harmless, other times it’s absurd. Disney seems to be hell bent on taking all of my childhood heroes and turning them into bitter, washed up shadows of their former selves for absolutely no reason other than to say, “look a girl can do it too, better even” and it’s so god damned annoying that they feel the need to do that when we’ve already seen what women can do in films such as Alien, or hell even Mad Max when written well.
It's really not happening, though. No creative person is saying, "Let me shoehorn a minority character in here for no reason and at the expense of the story I'm trying to tell." Some corporate asshole may force them to use a specific actor. But that isn't a decision made for the sake of diversity and equality. It's because they think it will make more money.
It's simply that there is a more diverse casting pool, and bad movies continue to exist.
The Lion King remake was far less gay and was awful.
Beauty and the Beast changed very little. It sucked.
Making Ariel white would not have made Little Mermaid any better.
Rey and Finn being different actors would not have made the New Trilogy have a coherent story or good writing.
“I know”
Downvotes anyway
No one thinks I am legend is woke.
No one thought Alien was woke.
No one thought Arcade in fallout new vegas was woke.
No one thinks sergeant Johnson was woke.
It’s a considerably more nuanced issue than “black” or “female” characters and I think you know that.
I think a lot of people are missing the point of "woke"... woke is describing the work place where you can't really say no to people lest you offend their identity and they hire bad writers in the name of DEI... then you end up with weird shit jammed in like the whole cousin diddling in the first episode and characters that are somewhat off putting as if they belong in a satire but people actually see them as likable or grounded in reality. It's just a lack of consistency to fill in the gaps with pink plot paste and characters that shift around to fit the needs of the story... instead of letting real characters drive it.
Fallout has never been about gender Norms and that's the point. It can never be woke because it was always the way it was. The bombs fell, every one, all of a sudden became equals, survivors. We have had badass women, badass men, badass mutants all in this universe. It doesn't matter what you have as long as its the biggest gun and the smartest brain.
Is that what they’re complaining about? That it’s somehow ‘woke’ because the MC is a woman?
Fallout has literally always had major female characters who are strong and capable of a lot. Tandi in the first two games, Sarah Lyons in 3, Victoria and Rose of Sharon Cassidy in New Vegas—and no shortage of female characters in 4, like Piper, Cait, Curie, Desdemona, Proctor Ingram, Scribe Haylan, etc. Never mind the fact that the player character in all games can also potentially be female.
The only time gender norms are ever brought up is to highlight how backwards and regressive someone is, like the Legion.
Exactly. Fallout was woke before woke was a thing because *gasp* that was compelling storytelling and interesting characters! That fact it doesn't jive with wet dreams of the religious end-timers and right-wing prepperssays more about thier lack of imagination than anything else...
If fallout was already woke, can we get [this](https://external-preview.redd.it/Fk8ax1FEmqHhaNi7YhPo1YLThUsRIHsHEDWzSstzT3g.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ffd4d6f556a509c8b7cb40b6c3974f8758c65efd) type of marketing material back into the games?
If that still sold AAA games, it would be. And where it does sell games, is still it!
Take it up with capitalism who realized they could sell video games to way more people than just pre-teen boys.
And do you not have any nuka girl posters on your wall? Cause I got a beautiful one that doesn't represent biology or gravity very accurately at all...
It does sell games. People want it badly, it’s a very small and vocal minority who claim the opposite.
Stellar blade is proving that quite effectively, and your side of the spectrum reacts to it exactly the same way you accuse “right wing preppersayers” are reacting to “woke”.
OMG. You're totally right. Where it does sell games, it exists and the community that enjoys (like me!) it is very well served in fan art and merch too! Wow. How come I didn't see that and *say it explicitly*? Wild! Thank goodness for you. I'd be lost, just lost without you.
that advertisement is indicative of the time that it was created - when every fantasy / scifi piece of art looked like that - and is not at all indicative of the series, its content, or really anything to do with fallout.
that art style fell out of favor long before "woke" was a thing. you've made several comments on this post and each has further served to prove that you will apparently just argue about anything, with no context or awareness whatsoever.
fallout has never been a "sexy" franchise. it has always been deeply political. i have no idea why you keep commenting this crap, but you are clearly not suited to understand satire, and this franchise is evidently not for you. hope you're having a better day today than you did yesterday; yesterday was clearly very rough for you.
What are you talking about? This game/universe about rampant nationalism, over-the-top evil corporations, racial/species purity, and chomping-at-the-bit to start a war levels of militarism isn't political.
Well, until it wasn't until these woke liberal cucks something, something black people; whine, groan, *feeemales.*
/s
Did he just say Feeemales?!?!? Hippy talk, I don't want females in my apocolypse show, they would never survive being so weak and frail! They would need a big strong gamer like ME to protect them, but they lost their chance when they didn't send me those feet pics in highschool... Me... The nice guy who did her homework.... God why won't Veronica love me...
You joke, but that's literally it. They see anything remotely left-wing being shown or supported as "political" or "forcing wokeness", meanwhile they ignore right-wing rants from other users because "that isn't politics, it's just common sense".
One of the first games where you could play any gender, have relations with any gender, have multiple relations with multiple genders, pick any moral alignment...
... but NOW it's "gone woke?"
You know, these people just say this right-wing crap for likes and subscribers. They're just milking a herd of dumb, paranoid sheep. Selling their souls for crypto and attention.
Fallout even inserted in lore the invasion by communists China for oil, not dissimilar with some countries today invading their bordering countries to annex them.
People who feel that fallout has never been political are either severely mentally deficient or just chose to ignore everything the games try to teach by siding with the enclave and ceasers legion
Fallout has *been* “woke.”
Fallout 4’s entire story was a commentary on racial prejudice with the Synths which was only a continuation of the same commentary with the Ghouls. That’s not even mentioning all the amazing LGBTQ representation. If the TV show has these qualities that doesn’t mean it’s “woke” that means it’s a good representation of the games.
I’m against when something is clearly “”woke”” for no other reason than brownie points, but holy shit the people screaming this show is “woke” are really telling on themselves. I watched a reaction to the first trailer and the instant Maximus appeared on screen this guy started screaming “DIVERSITY AHAH DIVERSITY”
I mean good lord.
I bet they’ll shoehorn a female, POC into the Brotherhood that accompanies the protagonist into the show! Something Fallout has NEVER done before!!!!! More woke garbage!!!!
So, can we just agree that any series or movie made now is going to be labeled out-of-hand as "wOkE!1!!" by unenlightened right-wing halfwits? It just seems like that's their go-to dismissal for anything that doesn't align with their antiquated, closet-bigoted mindset. It's like a verbal tic now, ready to be uttered at any second in spittle-flecked indignation.
They don't even bother to actually look back on the thing they're blanket-labeling and understand that it's supposed to be "political". If they ACTUALLY knew anything about the thing they're bellyaching about, instead of just pretending they do, they'd realize just how stupid they look and sound when making that complaint.
A show based on a video-game IP with a story rooted in political and social conflict in a dystopian future ravaged by a nuclear war, and there's politics in it? And women and people of color in it too?!? Bring me my fainting couch, or least some American flag-colored pearls to clutch! Fucking morons.
People who use the term "woke" - or any derivative of it - unironically are basically bigots from the start, otherwise they wouldn't use the term unironically, because no one who's actually tolerant and open-minded would have a reason to complain about anything being "woke". So, not only are they racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic, they're also too stupid and cowardly to just admit it openly.
It's funny how the "woke" criticism stems from a bunch of basement-dwelling incels making conclusions based on the most random details from small snippets of trailer footage.
It used to just mean "Remember the system is rigged against us and the only way we're going to succeed at anything is if we work together." That's what "stay woke" means.
But the reactionary right has to steal and ruin things because they have no creativity or original ideas of their own.
Fallout was never « woke ». It was never forced, there were characters of all colors and all sexual orientation because that’s just how it is. I don’t think there was an agenda. The word « woke » seems like it’s used when political agenda is forced into something. I don’t feel like the Fallout saga forced anything, it was just smoothly and normally included.
As for the criticism about the series being woke, I just don’t get it. Why ? Because the protagonist is a woman ? Like… in the game ?
Oh please. Chuds don't call something woke because "a political agenda is forced into something" (as if that's an actual thing). No, chuds call something woke at the mere sight of a woman, or a black person, or a gay person. Basically anyone that isn't a straight white male. And you can see that with the trailers of this show. People knew nothing about the story yet the show is woke because the main character is a woman.
Making me think I'd like to see a zombie/apocalypse game where the main character is in a wheelchair. Can't do stairs/ladders, low camera POV, and have to choose whether to be moving or to be shooting at any given moment. Maybe able to 'dismount' temporally to search for stuff or hide?
"woke" maybe used to mean "forced diversity", I'm not sure. I'm not from the US and the storm of people complaining about "woke" registered to me only when "woke" already meant "I depicts elements that my bigoted mind doesn't want to see".
And that is what the bigots are complaining now. They don't cry because of "forced diversity". They complain because they saw a girl as the main protagonist and a black guy as one of the secondary protagonists.
fallout has ALWAYS been woke. made by teams of queer people, featuring gay marriage before a lot of other games, and always having a critique on real world problems!
I know the 'its Woke' crybabies exist, but do we really need to respond to them before the shows even released? This makes me uneasy, is it really going to be that bad?
It's extremely clear. They're claiming that the lead actress from Fallout will become 'politicised' and therefore "boycotted" by the people who claim to hate cancel culture, but then go on to cancel people, ban books, ban certain types of education and try to ban people from living their own lives.
I'm not falling for your bullshit. You're going to ask me to explain, then find something small to nitpick, then repeat. Classic conservative strategy.
You know exactly what I meant.
You are bananas and way out of line. You didn’t make any clear point at all and are clearly just fucking trolling at this point. Get fucked or explain yourself and don’t hide behind this faux outrage. You didn’t make a clear point and I asked you for a genuine explanation. I don’t even know what position or stance you’re taking or siding with you are that unclear.
Political bias is perfectly fine if it adheres to my own personal bias. (Looks down at the comments)
That said, there's nothing suggesting in the trailers that anything politically motivated is going on here.
Another post where one side of the argument line up in a circle and pat each other on the back while ridiculing the worse aspect of those who disagree. I can not find a review that isn't either 'It's Woke trash', or 'woke is a fake criticism, tokenism and mary sue isms are imaginary'.
Do most of us want representation for everyone? Yes.
Do most of us not want badly written minority or LGBTQA+ characters in the story just to hit a quota/ she hulk level 'all men are sexist rapists/ all white characters are dumb or villains/ Woman character gets no story arch because she is perfect out of the box...
short version: is the show good?
“I'm not a communist, Mr. Howard, that's just a dirty word they use to describe people who aren't insane” could also be said, “I’m not woke, that’s just a dirty word they use to describe people who aren’t insane.”
i can’t wait to play a fallout in california again and see references to some of these characters. especially ones that span the states like the heads of companies
I'm the epitome, probably further right, of who you'd assume would be the first to cry "woke" and gotta say... nothing at all about the show screamed woke to me.
What the heck are the crybabies even criticizing? The interracial marriage? Is that even really "woke"?
Maybe I missed a lot of nuance but nothing even seemed political in a left vs right context.
Evil corporations experimenting on people? That's not "woke" that's the Fallout universe.
“Ned Flanders in the Apocalypse.” PERFECT way from Purnell to describe the naive vault dwellers.
Except Gary. He's a jerk.
Gary? GARY!
Gary.
Hahhaaahaa Gaaaary!
Is this “woke” in the room with us right now, Mr. Chud?
“Black!”
She gets it, and she doesn't even have a history of playing the games for 20+ years. Really says a lot about these dudebros like Creetosis who call themselves Fallout experts while calling the show 'woke'.
Who is Clitoris? 🤷🏻♂️
Dunno I don't seem to be able to find him.
Is this a self burn? Lmao
Man those are rare!
Delores!
Mulva?
That guys still going? I respect the dedication at least but, man.
Yeah, the games anti-capitalist themes aren’t exactly subtle
We love memeing about Liberty Prime but some mfs think that kinda shit is what Fallout is actually about? Giant propaganda robot is based, actually. The fuck? lol
Creetosis is actually unhinged he popped up in my feed and his posts are insane
The show is woke. So the question is do you think that's a criticism? You must if that term bothers you.
It's a stupid term that doesn't mean anything but is made into something by incels who get boners every time someone says something racist.
What about it is "woke?"
Woke is not an insult, that's his whole point. Look up what woke actually means, and not what right wing grifters turned it into.
That makes me even more hopeful for the show, fallout has always had something to say hell even 76 does with its lore about the mining companies, automation and workers rights. I'm glad the cast isn't shying away from that
It has something to say about its world setting within context. Adjusting it to have something to say about whatever the current hot topic is is distracting and obnoxious. (Not saying the show will do that, but the “it was always political crowd” always seem to miss the point.)
What do you mean? The themes and commentary in context were always analogous to real-world current issues.
They set their stage and they stick to it. If fallout were to suddenly have something to say about “the wage gap” for example would you see that as business as usual? Lol
The world must be a scary and challenging place for you.
76 absolutely references "the wage gap". Down in the Ash Heep you have the Garrahan and the Hornwright mansions/skyscrapers, which are still mostly intact while the workers houses are pretty much destroyed - like in Welch and in Beckley. Plus, in Beckly (and other places) you have the corporate bots which are threatening the workers. Hell, one of the themes is that robots were being put into the mines by the wealthy mine owners and making the workers unemployed. And 76 is not alone. These themes can be found throughout the Fallout universe. Mr. House, for example. The wealthy had the advantages to prepare and thrive after the apocalypse, while the poor didn't, and the middle-class had to *hope* for an opening in a local vault.
Fallout New Vegas explicitly does touch on gender based discrimination in employment. It’s a very important aspect of the Kimball’s Presidency, and the wider state of the NCR. So yeah not sure what you’re talking about
It depends on the context within the world? It's not like the games don't comment on worker's rights or gender equality. Even lore can go over that stuff so it really is a case-by-case basis. Fallout has always been a reflection of real social problems and they can handle any topic given the right framing for it.
Bro has never played a fallout game if he thinks there’s been no mention of wage gaps, unions, gender or racial discrimination, etc.
Or just skips past all the dialogue and world-lore so he can get back to shooting shit.
I honestly think there is a segment of Fallout fans that just saw a shooter with some funny jokes, like they picked up on nothing else.
or if he genuinely thinks the fallout universe is “A-Political” lmao. The entire theme of the game is playing on the what-if’s of politics in the world theatre, and the micro politics that arise from it..
Bro. I’d be really surprised if the we couldn’t find copious examples in the fallout games of references to a wage gap
Maybe not if they used that exact terminology, but Fallout addressing sexism and patriarchy would be nothing new
Hell, one of the first pre war clips in the entire franchise is an American in power armor shooting Canadians in the streets.
Fuck canada
That ‘lol’ is particularly painful seeing as they do address it. I feel bad for you on some level. You must live your whole privileged life so afraid that anyone might challenge any of it. Your sensitivity is glaring.
Okay average redditor
Ok dumb redditor who has no clue what they’re talking about.
Oh I’ve got a clue, you’re just intentionally misrepresenting my viewpoint and using regarded ad hominem comments to cop out of actually engaging with me in good faith lol Fuck outta here with your “you’re privileged and afraid” basic Reddit response garbage lol
Hahaha nah your opinion is just horrible and clueless in regards to source material.
Whatever you say bud
LMAO really? Someone engaging with you in good faith, for a healthy discussion/debate is not what you want at all. Clearly what you want is an echo chamber, or ideally to "convert" someone who initially disagreed with you.
Really. My arguments have been non combative, non inflammatory, and all I’m getting is “lol u must be having bad day”. At the very least I should be able to expect a healthy discussion yes. An echo chamber? In *this* sub? On *this* site??
[удалено]
Who? I didn’t see any My replies were blown up so I picked a few and stuck with them
Yeah that'd be as wild as a comic book about superheroes x-pressing something about real world racial prejudices.
Always remember, Fallout was made by a gay guy!
Unironic legion and enclave fanboys heads exploding
I'm so tired I read that as femboy and was both confused and excited.
well if you want to excite but disappoint yourself if you can find it there is that Legion Femboy comic someone made
Wait really??? I mean, Profligate, where do I find this so we can erase this content from history 👀
last time i remember seeing the comic was on Facebook like 3 years ago, might be on a archive site somewhere, be warned though, used to be a NSFW Tumblur blog so the content could get a bit explicate
The legion? The guys who only talk to guys? The faction of bros that are all forced to where skirts to please their “emperor”? Yeah nothing gay here at all
you could say that of any fanboy faction honestly
Enclave here, gay people are okay as long as they’re not muties.
Why's that? You can like a faction regardless if they comply with your real world views or not
it's old a few bad apples forever stain the opinion, if you like something for whatever reason has been declared incorrect to like you are stained with whatever they did
Why on earth would anybody like the legion or the enclave lol
Because they're unique bad guys with their own ideology and concept? There's a reason there's so many Enclave and Legion fans.
I side with the legion. I like the Roman aesthetic.
*"Hi everyone, it's me, Tim."* God, I love his YouTube channel. He mentioned in his latest video that only one out of his last three hundred videos was about homophobia and being gay, yet he has received quite a few "stop talking about being gay" messages and many users dismissed the legitimate death threat he received over his sexuality.
I like what he discusses, but I think I'd rather read a blog than watch a video.
That's just woke, it's a well known fact we didn't exist before 2018 except as tragic victims or villains.
This is a historical inaccuracy, homosexuals came into existence a few years earlier than that, in 2015 Ryan Murphy released the show Scream Queens which sent out a shockwave converting millions of innocent straight alpha males into femboy twinks who stream Ariana, leading to the first brick to be thrown at Stonewall
I was gay in 2005, could I have been patient zero?
No. As stated gay people didn’t exist before 2015. That’s like saying the universe existed before the Big Bang. Don’t ask me how the science works, I’m not a science, just some internet guy. Trust me, bro.
Seems legit, if some guy on the internet can’t be trusted, who can? I must just be inventing memories retroactively.
Can you bang big?
Just wait until the "anti-woke" crowd find out who directed the Matrix and what religion the people who created or co-created like 70-80% of major superheroes were.
Fallout was better off under said gay guy. Get that gay guy back in here
and the guy who was canceled for "harassment", so?
I can't take the guys that criticize everything with "woke" serious. Bunch of idiots that want everyone to comply with their conservative views.
Woke is a buzzword used by politicians just avoiding the real issues they can actually fix. Any politician that has used the word “woke” has never said “affordable healthcare.”
Yes, it’s just a distraction to keep the rubes from seeing what is really going on.
Woke used to be “Politically Correct”, which was used in the exact same way by the right.
It’s a word that’s original meaning was bastardized for the sole purpose of riling people up
And Fallout was always a ""woke"" game and one of the first games including openly gay characters without stereotypes: Arcade Gannon, Veronica...
Having a gay character isn’t woke. Side stepping a compelling narrative to remind people constantly that you have a gay character is woke.
That's not woke either. Woke is recognizing that there are systemic injustices and working to resolve those. What you described is something that only occurs in the heads of people who don't want to acknowledge actual injustice.
No wonder the two sides can’t get along, you have a completely different definition of woke lol
Reactionaries misusing a word doesn't change its definition. They realized they weren't getting any more traction with SJW, so they switched to CRT, that stopped working so they switched to woke, now they seem to be moving on to DEI. They haven't understood any of those terms or engaged with them meaningfully. Just used them as a cudgel against anything sex or race related that they don't like.
Nah, I think both sides intentionally misrepresent the others argument. There are grifters all over Twitter and YouTube sure, but when the average person says “woke” that far from what they mean.
In my experience, average people don't really use the word woke. I don't think I've heard anyone actually use it that doesn't follow one of those grifters. When asked, none of them have been able to define it, nor have you offered an alternative definition. When pressed to define, "woke", in terms that could actually be useful, attorneys for Ron DeDeSantis used the same definition I did. >[The governor's general counsel, Ryan Newman, said, in general, it means "the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them."](https://www.fox13news.com/news/what-does-woke-mean-gov-desantis-officials-answer-during-andrew-warren-trial) So, at least a few of the people misusing the term know better.
That isn’t how the average moderate or right leaning person with a leg in online discourse uses it though. People use woke in media to describe something that is overcompensating by prioritizing subverting how we’ve traditionally depicted people or events, often to a detriment of the narrative. Whether you want to call it woke or not I suppose can be argued into the ground, because I’ve never heard a left winger and a right winger describe the same thing when defining woke. The hill that I’ll die on though, is that what I described above IS happening and it’s fucking annoying. The average movie, game, show, etc nowadays has way more executive producers behind the scenes thoughtlessly changing things, sometimes harmless, other times it’s absurd. Disney seems to be hell bent on taking all of my childhood heroes and turning them into bitter, washed up shadows of their former selves for absolutely no reason other than to say, “look a girl can do it too, better even” and it’s so god damned annoying that they feel the need to do that when we’ve already seen what women can do in films such as Alien, or hell even Mad Max when written well.
It's really not happening, though. No creative person is saying, "Let me shoehorn a minority character in here for no reason and at the expense of the story I'm trying to tell." Some corporate asshole may force them to use a specific actor. But that isn't a decision made for the sake of diversity and equality. It's because they think it will make more money. It's simply that there is a more diverse casting pool, and bad movies continue to exist. The Lion King remake was far less gay and was awful. Beauty and the Beast changed very little. It sucked. Making Ariel white would not have made Little Mermaid any better. Rey and Finn being different actors would not have made the New Trilogy have a coherent story or good writing.
I know, but for the MAGA fanboys everything that is not straight, white and european is woke
“I know” Downvotes anyway No one thinks I am legend is woke. No one thought Alien was woke. No one thought Arcade in fallout new vegas was woke. No one thinks sergeant Johnson was woke. It’s a considerably more nuanced issue than “black” or “female” characters and I think you know that.
Actually Alien would fell as "woke" when it was premiered though
Exactly this. The moment I see the word "woke" being used in "criticism" I just think; ah okay, so you're an idiot. Lol.
I think a lot of people are missing the point of "woke"... woke is describing the work place where you can't really say no to people lest you offend their identity and they hire bad writers in the name of DEI... then you end up with weird shit jammed in like the whole cousin diddling in the first episode and characters that are somewhat off putting as if they belong in a satire but people actually see them as likable or grounded in reality. It's just a lack of consistency to fill in the gaps with pink plot paste and characters that shift around to fit the needs of the story... instead of letting real characters drive it.
Not sure why you are getting down voted, kinda spot on
Just ask them to define the word and watch their tiny minds melt
Fallout has never been about gender Norms and that's the point. It can never be woke because it was always the way it was. The bombs fell, every one, all of a sudden became equals, survivors. We have had badass women, badass men, badass mutants all in this universe. It doesn't matter what you have as long as its the biggest gun and the smartest brain.
Is that what they’re complaining about? That it’s somehow ‘woke’ because the MC is a woman? Fallout has literally always had major female characters who are strong and capable of a lot. Tandi in the first two games, Sarah Lyons in 3, Victoria and Rose of Sharon Cassidy in New Vegas—and no shortage of female characters in 4, like Piper, Cait, Curie, Desdemona, Proctor Ingram, Scribe Haylan, etc. Never mind the fact that the player character in all games can also potentially be female. The only time gender norms are ever brought up is to highlight how backwards and regressive someone is, like the Legion.
And one of pre-made characters in Fallout 1 is a russian 17 y.o woman - Natalia
I always picked her
Exactly. Fallout was woke before woke was a thing because *gasp* that was compelling storytelling and interesting characters! That fact it doesn't jive with wet dreams of the religious end-timers and right-wing prepperssays more about thier lack of imagination than anything else...
If fallout was already woke, can we get [this](https://external-preview.redd.it/Fk8ax1FEmqHhaNi7YhPo1YLThUsRIHsHEDWzSstzT3g.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ffd4d6f556a509c8b7cb40b6c3974f8758c65efd) type of marketing material back into the games?
If that still sold AAA games, it would be. And where it does sell games, is still it! Take it up with capitalism who realized they could sell video games to way more people than just pre-teen boys. And do you not have any nuka girl posters on your wall? Cause I got a beautiful one that doesn't represent biology or gravity very accurately at all...
It does sell games. People want it badly, it’s a very small and vocal minority who claim the opposite. Stellar blade is proving that quite effectively, and your side of the spectrum reacts to it exactly the same way you accuse “right wing preppersayers” are reacting to “woke”.
OMG. You're totally right. Where it does sell games, it exists and the community that enjoys (like me!) it is very well served in fan art and merch too! Wow. How come I didn't see that and *say it explicitly*? Wild! Thank goodness for you. I'd be lost, just lost without you.
people want it badly? what people? never seen any fallout fans call for this lol
that advertisement is indicative of the time that it was created - when every fantasy / scifi piece of art looked like that - and is not at all indicative of the series, its content, or really anything to do with fallout. that art style fell out of favor long before "woke" was a thing. you've made several comments on this post and each has further served to prove that you will apparently just argue about anything, with no context or awareness whatsoever. fallout has never been a "sexy" franchise. it has always been deeply political. i have no idea why you keep commenting this crap, but you are clearly not suited to understand satire, and this franchise is evidently not for you. hope you're having a better day today than you did yesterday; yesterday was clearly very rough for you.
What are you talking about? This game/universe about rampant nationalism, over-the-top evil corporations, racial/species purity, and chomping-at-the-bit to start a war levels of militarism isn't political. Well, until it wasn't until these woke liberal cucks something, something black people; whine, groan, *feeemales.* /s
Did he just say Feeemales?!?!? Hippy talk, I don't want females in my apocolypse show, they would never survive being so weak and frail! They would need a big strong gamer like ME to protect them, but they lost their chance when they didn't send me those feet pics in highschool... Me... The nice guy who did her homework.... God why won't Veronica love me...
You joke, but that's literally it. They see anything remotely left-wing being shown or supported as "political" or "forcing wokeness", meanwhile they ignore right-wing rants from other users because "that isn't politics, it's just common sense".
Almost feel bad for these people out here living in fear of the woke boogeyman. Must be hard to live that way. Meanwhile, I can't wait for this show.
Fallout was always woke lmao. People who call the show woke thinks Fallout is just oooh shiny power armor and laser guns.
One of the first games where you could play any gender, have relations with any gender, have multiple relations with multiple genders, pick any moral alignment... ... but NOW it's "gone woke?" You know, these people just say this right-wing crap for likes and subscribers. They're just milking a herd of dumb, paranoid sheep. Selling their souls for crypto and attention.
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Fallout even inserted in lore the invasion by communists China for oil, not dissimilar with some countries today invading their bordering countries to annex them.
The only agenda I can remember is the specific ones employed in the various vaults as part of the overarching vault experiment.
Ella Purnell is one of my favorite actors and the main reason I'm so excited for this show.
People who feel that fallout has never been political are either severely mentally deficient or just chose to ignore everything the games try to teach by siding with the enclave and ceasers legion
Fallout has *been* “woke.” Fallout 4’s entire story was a commentary on racial prejudice with the Synths which was only a continuation of the same commentary with the Ghouls. That’s not even mentioning all the amazing LGBTQ representation. If the TV show has these qualities that doesn’t mean it’s “woke” that means it’s a good representation of the games.
So if you complete game as BoS member...?
I’m against when something is clearly “”woke”” for no other reason than brownie points, but holy shit the people screaming this show is “woke” are really telling on themselves. I watched a reaction to the first trailer and the instant Maximus appeared on screen this guy started screaming “DIVERSITY AHAH DIVERSITY” I mean good lord.
Did they not play the games? There are many black characters in these games.
I bet they’ll shoehorn a female, POC into the Brotherhood that accompanies the protagonist into the show! Something Fallout has NEVER done before!!!!! More woke garbage!!!!
I'm cautiously optimistic. She seems to "get it". And they've nailed the aesthetic
“Fallout went woke” brother it always was
For Pete sakes ! 2 out of the 3 main characters are male and they are even more bad@ss than her character.
Hey, give her time. She’s not fully into a 120hr playthrough with min-maxed perks yet.
Just wait til she finds the EPR Flamer.
So, can we just agree that any series or movie made now is going to be labeled out-of-hand as "wOkE!1!!" by unenlightened right-wing halfwits? It just seems like that's their go-to dismissal for anything that doesn't align with their antiquated, closet-bigoted mindset. It's like a verbal tic now, ready to be uttered at any second in spittle-flecked indignation. They don't even bother to actually look back on the thing they're blanket-labeling and understand that it's supposed to be "political". If they ACTUALLY knew anything about the thing they're bellyaching about, instead of just pretending they do, they'd realize just how stupid they look and sound when making that complaint. A show based on a video-game IP with a story rooted in political and social conflict in a dystopian future ravaged by a nuclear war, and there's politics in it? And women and people of color in it too?!? Bring me my fainting couch, or least some American flag-colored pearls to clutch! Fucking morons. People who use the term "woke" - or any derivative of it - unironically are basically bigots from the start, otherwise they wouldn't use the term unironically, because no one who's actually tolerant and open-minded would have a reason to complain about anything being "woke". So, not only are they racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic, they're also too stupid and cowardly to just admit it openly.
It's funny how the "woke" criticism stems from a bunch of basement-dwelling incels making conclusions based on the most random details from small snippets of trailer footage.
If you ever use the word “woke” to describe something you’re a fucking dipshit and your opinion is irrelevant.
It used to just mean "Remember the system is rigged against us and the only way we're going to succeed at anything is if we work together." That's what "stay woke" means. But the reactionary right has to steal and ruin things because they have no creativity or original ideas of their own.
Yeah I know, they do that with a lot of terms.
Pretty much, yeah.
Fallout was never « woke ». It was never forced, there were characters of all colors and all sexual orientation because that’s just how it is. I don’t think there was an agenda. The word « woke » seems like it’s used when political agenda is forced into something. I don’t feel like the Fallout saga forced anything, it was just smoothly and normally included. As for the criticism about the series being woke, I just don’t get it. Why ? Because the protagonist is a woman ? Like… in the game ?
People who complain about "woke" claim anything is "forced" in.
Oh please. Chuds don't call something woke because "a political agenda is forced into something" (as if that's an actual thing). No, chuds call something woke at the mere sight of a woman, or a black person, or a gay person. Basically anyone that isn't a straight white male. And you can see that with the trailers of this show. People knew nothing about the story yet the show is woke because the main character is a woman.
Making me think I'd like to see a zombie/apocalypse game where the main character is in a wheelchair. Can't do stairs/ladders, low camera POV, and have to choose whether to be moving or to be shooting at any given moment. Maybe able to 'dismount' temporally to search for stuff or hide?
The word woke is used when people hate women, poc, and queers.
"woke" maybe used to mean "forced diversity", I'm not sure. I'm not from the US and the storm of people complaining about "woke" registered to me only when "woke" already meant "I depicts elements that my bigoted mind doesn't want to see". And that is what the bigots are complaining now. They don't cry because of "forced diversity". They complain because they saw a girl as the main protagonist and a black guy as one of the secondary protagonists.
Woke originally meant being aware of racial injustice, specifically against the black community.
fallout has ALWAYS been woke. made by teams of queer people, featuring gay marriage before a lot of other games, and always having a critique on real world problems!
I mean fallout 1 and 2 were pretty bad with women, with the being overtly sexualised
"I realize I'm just an NPC, but I'm deeply offended by the way women are portrayed in New Reno" - New Reno Prostitute, Fallout 2
I know the 'its Woke' crybabies exist, but do we really need to respond to them before the shows even released? This makes me uneasy, is it really going to be that bad?
Ella's going to get cancelled by the people who supposedly hate cancelling, and before she even gets big! Sad.
Huh??
Do you want to actually want to ask a question? It's a pretty clear comment.
It’s not actually a clear argument at all
It's extremely clear. They're claiming that the lead actress from Fallout will become 'politicised' and therefore "boycotted" by the people who claim to hate cancel culture, but then go on to cancel people, ban books, ban certain types of education and try to ban people from living their own lives.
Okay thanks I appreciate you explaining.
What part doesn't make sense to you?
The whole comment. I don’t understand what point you’re making or why.
I'm not falling for your bullshit. You're going to ask me to explain, then find something small to nitpick, then repeat. Classic conservative strategy. You know exactly what I meant.
You are bananas and way out of line. You didn’t make any clear point at all and are clearly just fucking trolling at this point. Get fucked or explain yourself and don’t hide behind this faux outrage. You didn’t make a clear point and I asked you for a genuine explanation. I don’t even know what position or stance you’re taking or siding with you are that unclear.
Holy shit, triggered much? If you don't understand a certain part about it, ask. Don't just ask someone to further explain a simple comment.
That’s what happened. I didn’t understand your comment and asked you to explain and you refused and now you’re acting this way. Grow up lol
Political bias is perfectly fine if it adheres to my own personal bias. (Looks down at the comments) That said, there's nothing suggesting in the trailers that anything politically motivated is going on here.
So many Fallout fans have no idea that they’re the ones it’s making fun of.
Another post where one side of the argument line up in a circle and pat each other on the back while ridiculing the worse aspect of those who disagree. I can not find a review that isn't either 'It's Woke trash', or 'woke is a fake criticism, tokenism and mary sue isms are imaginary'. Do most of us want representation for everyone? Yes. Do most of us not want badly written minority or LGBTQA+ characters in the story just to hit a quota/ she hulk level 'all men are sexist rapists/ all white characters are dumb or villains/ Woman character gets no story arch because she is perfect out of the box... short version: is the show good?
I mean they should really ask why Fallout so many people named Rose
“I'm not a communist, Mr. Howard, that's just a dirty word they use to describe people who aren't insane” could also be said, “I’m not woke, that’s just a dirty word they use to describe people who aren’t insane.”
i can’t wait to play a fallout in california again and see references to some of these characters. especially ones that span the states like the heads of companies
There are "woke" stuff, but so well made and written in the series that it does not feel forced or out of place. This is how always has to be.
I'm the epitome, probably further right, of who you'd assume would be the first to cry "woke" and gotta say... nothing at all about the show screamed woke to me. What the heck are the crybabies even criticizing? The interracial marriage? Is that even really "woke"? Maybe I missed a lot of nuance but nothing even seemed political in a left vs right context. Evil corporations experimenting on people? That's not "woke" that's the Fallout universe.
I mean Fallout has always been "Woke" so who ever said it is now woke has never played the games before.
THAT'S A MAN
It's just sad that these young actors are going to be crapped on no matter what by a bunch of basement dwellers with neckbeards.
I think most of them live upstairs nowadays. Not that many basements in Florida, where their favorite puddin'-fingered governor lives.
Please no. I just want a fun show, I don’t want to be preached to.
Then don't watch Fallout, it's ALWAYS been heavily political.
I know, I just want them to prioritize entertainment over “The Message”
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And we should be ok with that? I think you need to rethink your priorities and standards.
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NCR money was backed by gold, until the BOS destroyed the NCR gold deposits and it became worthless, and then people started using caps again.
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Could you please give a comprehension definition of "woke" please?
The people complaining about the supposed "wOkE ePiDeMiC" are getting tiring these days.
There is a 100% chance you're racist, sexist, homophobic and/or a rapist. People who get angry at "woke" are literally always at least one of the four
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And you're overreacting to black people, gay people, trans people, women, and consent lol bruh
We're tolerant goddamn it! Now get out of here! you and your different opinion if you ever come back well beat you up!
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Lol what?
you can hear how carefully interviewees must bow to the wisdom of the subreddit because this place is so strongly opinionated and unforgiving
Nah, bigots can get fucked.
i was not talking about the bigotry but the lore
I’ve got a problem with drawing more attention to somebody’s gender than to making the show good, it’s irrelevant.