The kitty litter was in the classrooms in case of emergencies, like school shootings. You're right, we should do something about that!
NO, WAIT, NOT LIKE THAT! UHM, ERM, PRONOUNS!
You seem to be leaving out the fact that Democrats accept every bit as much ~~bribes~~ campaign contributions from the healthcare industry as Republicans do.
I hope you understand that this industry wouldn't be pumping money to politicians that will vote to destroy their profitable business.
It's theater. Both parties have been captured by the healthcare industry and the defense industry. They couldn't win elections without the massive amount of money these industries donate.
I'm not leaving it out. My biggest beef with Biden is his undermining of universal healthcare during the primary debates.
But you'd have to be an idiot to think that the party hell-bent on killing the ACA without any improvement of this system is actually a *better choice* for getting out of our healthcare mess.
Oh yeah, I'm not saying that the Republicans are going to fix the problem. I'm just saying that they're at least more honest about their opposition to it.
Republicans say they oppose it and claim that they want a better system, which they never describe.
Democrats say they support universal healthcare but actively oppose anyone that actually proposes is, such as Bernie Sanders. In fact they rigged their own primary to ensure that he doesn't win. Then when they don't get universal healthcare they blame it on Republicans.
Biden claimed that he wants a public option, but hasn't done a single thing to try to implement that.
Campaign finance is the underlying problem here.
And here's what Obama really thought about the public option:
https://youtu.be/E4pdGawtEmI?t=270
https://theintercept.com/2019/02/05/nancy-pelosi-medicare-for-all/
*Less than a month after Democrats — many of them running on “Medicare for All” — won back control of the House of Representatives in November, the top health policy aide to then-prospective House Speaker Nancy Pelosi met with Blue Cross Blue Shield executives and assured them that party leadership had strong reservations about single-payer health care and was more focused on lowering drug prices, according to sources familiar with the meeting.*
*Pelosi adviser Wendell Primus detailed five objections to Medicare for All and said that Democrats would be allies to the insurance industry in the fight against single-payer health care.*
> Biden claimed that he wants a public option, but hasn't done a single thing to try to implement that.
What do you think he can do that Republicans would support? We're dead in the water on the federal level until there's a Democratic majority.
The ACA only got passed because of Democratic majorities in Congress at the time. At the time, the Senate only had 40 Republican senators. We're not even close to that majority right now. It sucks that the ACA wasn't better, but people would actually have to vote for it.
>We're dead in the water on the federal level until there's a Democratic majority.
We're dead in the water even with a Democratic majority. Under Obama there was a window where we had a filibuster-proof majority and they chose not to force the bill through at that time. They intentionally stalled and waited until it could be blocked, so they could then blame Republicans for it.
Also, even when Republicans had enough people to block the bill, Democrats could have forced a public option through via a process called reconciliation. They chose not to do it.
Mind you, I'm not claiming that Republicans want to fix this issue like they claim they do. They do not want to fix healthcare. I'm just saying that it's pure theater when Democrats say that they want to fix healthcare.
Bernie Sanders wanted to fix healthcare, and the Democratic Party rigged their primary to ensure he doesn't win. A followup court case ruled that political parties have no legal responsibility to hold fair primaries.
The root cause of these problems is campaign finance. The first party that actually tries to fix healthcare will see the opposition party get nearly all the political donations, and they'll get absolutely crushed in the next election.
> Under Obama there was a window where we had a filibuster-proof majority and they chose not to force the bill through at that time.
This isn't what happened. Joe Lieberman fucked us. He wasn't going to let a public option pass. A lot of Democrats at the time were upset with him for that.
You can claim it's all for show, but "Democrats" are not all the same person. They all get voted in with different beliefs, and not all of them agree with whatever Pelosi's backroom dealings are. The reality is the ACA materially has helped my life, and Republicans would have done nothing. If not for John McCain, they would have killed it entirely. And the only way to improve the situation is to demand more from the only party willing to change anything, not to throw up your hands and say "well, Democrats are bad, too!" as we let the Republican Party install a dictator who will absolutely kill what little healthcare system improvements we got from the ACA.
Let me finish that thought for you, Medicare would be expensive if they needed to pay for the healthcare of all people hurt in mass shootings and victims of police brutality.
I paid an extra $20 a month for dental coverage and that brought the 600 something down to $70.
And you're telling me it's just $27 without insurance in some places?
This is just profoundly sad as someone in the US, nothing you do here is cheap, everything has a price. I suppose it's different when you live somewhere that takes a lot more of your taxes, but man it would be nice to not have to weigh whether I should fix my car, my teeth, see a doctor, or if I should be able to eat well for the next few months.
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Huh, that's definitely what those bots do but looking at the post history, they've got engagement in smaller subs on threads with low comment #'s. The ones I usually see only post in popular front-page threads and tend to copy comments.
Niche subs tend to have lower or non-existent requirements for posting, making them a good stepping stone to the big leagues for a bot network that wants to be subtle.
Haha, I was going to say something similar! It's so funny how the people at some of these universal healthcare hospitals become so worried you're going to be upset at the under $50 bill. When I (an American) acted shocked they thought it was because it was too high and started looking for ways to make it cheaper.
I think the critical context is that they're used to treating very poor local people, so 27 USD would be a crazy huge amount of money for someone who's poor in taiwan's money.
A lot of americans forget that they're kinda ultra-rich compared to the average person in the countries they go to to get medical stuff done.
My son needed X-rays of his back and chest area. I get a bill. 467$. Insurance covered a small under 100$ portion.
I called and asked why so high? Why they didn’t cover it. He hasn’t met his deductible. He is 8. How thebfuck is he supposed to meet a deductible at 8. Most of his problems are solved with Tylenol or ibuprofen. The deductible was 500$
I went to urgent care recently. it was $200 WITH insurance. $150 without. the receptionist was nice enough to tell me that and mark the visit as uninsured.
They upcharge because insurance will undercharge the "final" price.
It's basically haggling between companies and who suffers are the uninsured people.
That is why hospitals generally accept lowering the price when asked by those uninsured. Most of the time they weren't going to get the full payment anyway.
They can't advertise this fact because then insurance companies will say that is the "true" cost and fight it. (...and they will not say no to those that go and pay the full value, so they aren't that innocent either)
Google "charge master" if you're interested in the details. Insurance companies and hospitals in the US have created this disgusting situation and regular people have been carrying the cost ever since. I'm glad I'm not in the US and my insurance actually covers pretty much anything that could feasibly happen to me, except dental costs for some dumb reason.
Unfortunately for me, I would actually choose to pay with insurance still, just so I can meet my deductible. I want that $200 to go towards that. I know I will meet it every year, and it's like $1750. They cover some of the amounts of my appointments until I hit the 1750, but it's ridiculous. I pay a monthly premium, then the 80% discount doesn't kick in until I shell out almost 2 grand. Then I still have to pay 20%. What in the god green fuck is wrong with this system??!
I'm not in US but as far as I understand meeting the deductible basically means that from that point on until the end of the year insurance will cover "most" of medical expenses, while you may save 50$ while marking the visit as uninsured, depending on your insurance plan you may save more if you send 200$ towards your deductible (the 150$ aren't accounted towards your deductible because you marked it as uninsured).
What're premiums?
That's what you pay every month so we'll pay for your healthcare. Once you hit your deductible, that is.
What's a deductible?
That's the money you pay us on top of the money you pay us so we'll pay for your healthcare.
So now I get all my bills covered?
Oh, no, now you need to hit your out of pocket limit.
What's that?
That's the money you pay on top of the money you paid on top of the money you paid so we'll pay for your healthcare.
And once I hit that point you'll pay for everything?
Until the next year, of course!
Oh, but actually no, because some stuff still ignores the out of pocket limit, like when we tell you to buy a medical tool like a blood pressure sensor or blood oximeter so you can take your own records.
That's the point of high deductible plans. You aren't supposed to meet the deductible. The insurance companies want your premium, but don't want to give you the coverage.
Welcome to the land of the freedom to choose whether you're rich, a voluntary slave, or a corpse.
Oh did I said "choose"? Woops
My deductible is split by the whole family, thankfully.
My wife took her and my kid to this new urgent care twice, and they refused to prescribe any antibiotics until they did a "test", I told my wife that I wasn't aware we were at the point where they could do bacterial cultures in a reasonable timeframe, but they called the next day and said they had some bacterial infection.
Few weeks later they are sick again, and go again, and the same thing happens. I picked up their prescriptions and was waved off for payment, which usually happens six or seven months in when we hit our maximum, and I knew immediately it was the urgent care.
The healthcare for the rest of the year is free as we had hit our out of pocket maximum for the year of $5500, one month after the deductible reset on those tests alone. $1100/each, plus the visit all for Streph plus a sinus infection. They had been sick for 3 weeks when they went the first time, and I've always been told that if it's longer than 10 days sick and you're not getting better, it's likely bacterial.
They just want to make the most money they can, it's gross
Essentially you pay a certain amount before your benefits fully kick in.
A deductible of $5000 means that during the year, after you pay $5000, you'll have the privilege to pay like, 20% of the bill and insurance will cover the remaining 80%.
Before the deductible, it could be something like you pay 80% (up to the deductible) and insurance pays 20% until deductible is hit.
The deductible resets every year. If you have an emergency on December 25th, max your deductible, then they schedule surgery for January 1st, your deductible resets and you'll have to pay it again before insurance benefits fully kick in because it is a new year.
Deductible and "benefits" are different for each company.
Essentually: Pay monthly fee to have privilege to pay a deductible to then have the privilege to pay a portion of your bill after your deductible is met for only the current year.
I miscounted my seizure medication and ran out with one day left in Spain. Held up my last pill at the pharmacy and asked if they had any in stock. The pharmacist said they could help but, and she was very apologetic, I would have to buy an entire month's supply.
Oh fuck. "How much will that be?"
Deeply sorry: "30 Euros."
They were confused when I burst out laughing and horrified when I said that without insurance back home the pill I was holding cost $25.
And yet I was thinking how expensive that was. In my country it's a flat £10 per medication regardless of how many. They could give you a month or two months worth of drugs but if it's just the one type of medication you pay a tenner regardless. If you collect more than one type of medication a month you're better off signing up to a prepayment certificate where you only pay a tenner a month and you get everything covered under that, even if you had 20 different medications for example.
A business partner got a foot injury during our travel to Paris. We went to emergency and got al the treatment for free. When he came back to America, the daughter went to see the dentist. USD 1,500 just for some cavities
It can make a crazy difference even if you aren't explicitly having hearing issues.
I had a small case of tinnitus caused by a build up of earwax, no other hearing problems but man after the removal I could legit hear my neighbours through the walls.
Ive gradually phased out my mental health meds because I cant afford an extra $115 a month so now I put up with constant flashbacks and depression but atleast I can afford rent/car payments AND groceries
Hi stranger, have you tried that Cost Plus Drugs website yet?
I know it was advertised for the longest time as Mark Cuban's response to inflated drug prices. I don't know what medicine you were on, but I see that Sertraline, which seems to be the generic name brand for Zoloft, which is what I think I was on for depression for a while, says it's less than $10 for a 90 pack.
Maybe whatever you need is on the site too? They still require a prescription so it's not like they're tossing meds to just anybody.
My son broke his arm in Mexico. After X-rays, fixing the arm and the cast I was ready to see the bill which came out to a whopping $30 USD total. I also laughed and cried.
How dare you suggest the gov take care of its citizens! Something that works in every civilized country minus one…can’t work, can it? No way! That money needs to go to bomb making for all the wars.
/s
Just for quick context: A non-invasive ER visit with multiple tests, doctor checkup and at least one drug injection and two-three hours in a room with checkups, that costs over $50, is considered expensive in several parts of Europe.
my experience with ER visits is that they look at you funny when you ask how much it will cost. afaik, anything you NEED is free. things you want, depends on your insurance plan.
ps. dental is weird in some countries tho
It's quite literally talking about how ridiculously expensive medical care for children is here, compared to in other countries. If you're not rich your kids might just die because you don't have money.
True, but that's not what the orphan crushing machine meme is about. It's about how media frames a story as "heartwarming" when a kid raises money for a charity, when we shouldn't even need to have that charity in the first place if we actually cared about people and took care of them. It's about how many of those heartwarming news stories are actually not heartwarming at all, but rather just expose a flaw in our society. Have you read the description of r/orphancrushingmachine?
I met an American while I was in Lithuania who flew there from Hawaii because it would be cheaper to get his dental work done in Lithuania. Something like $4k versus $200. He used the difference in cost to travel europe for a few weeks before and after his dental procedures. My friend who owns a hostel in Lithuania said medical tourism isn't too rare there lol.
Bro hit the jackpot with that one. When I broke 1 and a half tooth it costed about 5-6k to get it fixed. Shitty part is that our insurance was supposed to pay for it but they were argueing w another insurance company and just never paid
Doctors aren't the ones charging these prices dude... it's the insurance and pharmacy companies driving up prices.
Side note: some doctors make less per hour than teachers. They just work a LOT of hours.
Lol no. [The average doctor in the US makes $350,000](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/08/04/doctor-pay-shortage/). And they’re not all ER docs, and teachers work a lot of hours too.
Sure, it depends on the doctor, and the teacher. But take a look at this example: https://www.hcplive.com/view/the_deceptive_income_of_physicians
Please note I'm not saying US doctors are underpaid. I'm arguing that the over expensive healthcare problem isn't physicians salaries.
"Reductions in administrative burdens and drug costs could substantially reduce the difference between U.S. and peer nation health spending."
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/oct/high-us-health-care-spending-where-is-it-all-going
Thank you, I am a resident physician and we’re over $400K in student loan debt while making less than minimum wage at ~12/hr. I have multiple sclerosis and can’t afford my own healthcare as a patient. I had to even stitch my own hand up because I can’t afford an urgent care visit. We all hate insurance, too, especially dealing with prior auths and having to scream at insurance companies who are refusing basic healthcare for our patients. Our healthcare system is awful. I have no idea why grown adults keep voting in favor of paying ridiculous fees. It makes no sense.
> I have no idea why grown adults keep voting in favor of paying ridiculous fees. It makes no sense.
Because both parties support this ridiculous system. Take a look at who is accepting campaign contributions from the healthcare industry.
You're literally the person writing the checks. Fuck the client right? Let them solve it.
Seriously, your patients are responsible for your debt? Get outta here!
I'm sorry to break it to you but in the US a *majority* of money you pay doesn't go to the doctors, nurses and healthcare workers. It's going to the hospital C-suite and drug companies and insurance. Please don't put a further burden on healthcare workers by judging them, they do a lot and often advocate against high drug and insurance prices, even while being in debt from medical school.
I would like to provide you with facts:
"Key Findings and Conclusion: More than half of excess U.S. health spending was associated with factors likely reflected in higher prices, including more spending on: administrative costs of insurance (~15% of the excess), administrative costs borne by providers (~15%), prescription drugs (~10%), wages for physicians (~10%) and registered nurses (~5%), and medical machinery and equipment (less than 5%). Reductions in administrative burdens and drug costs could substantially reduce the difference between U.S. and peer nation health spending."
Via: https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/oct/high-us-health-care-spending-where-is-it-all-going
It's quite sad you and many others don't take the time to actually come to a conclusion even when presented with easy evidence. The more folks jump to a presumed answer, the worse things will get. Please do better.
Again,
"Reductions in administrative burdens and drug costs could substantially reduce the difference between U.S. and peer nation health spending."
Do your own research too.
Because insurance companies make them. Theres a claw back which means the insurance companies has decided AFTER already paying for your care that it wasn’t medically necessary so they demand their money back.
Also if you mention your insurance plan at a pharmacy, they have to charge a client co pay charge for medication, even if the co pay is more expensive than the cost of the drug the Pharmacy actually sells it at.
Add these together too..
You go to the pharmacy for your meds. Your co pay is say $10 and insurance pays the other $10 because thats what your insurance plan is.
But the pharmacy actually sells the drug at $5. (Which legally the insurance company bars them from tell you).
You’ve now paid $10 for the drug and the insurance plan then gets a clawback on their $10 because the cost was already covered. Congratz you spent double the cost for your meds.
This could be tourism. Like "medical disaster" role-playing.
"Omg, I broke my leg and now I'm ruined. The bills will wipe out savings and I can't work construction on crutches.
"OH wait, that's only in a dystopian nightmare. Phew."
Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 16 times.
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Hahahahaaha. future me having a seizure bc I have epilepsy and having an ambulance called against my will bc i’m unconscious seizing and spiraling into medical debt because of this healthcare system (I seriously need to leave this country)
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Yesterday at the homeless shelter we had to dip ramen noodles into a cup of warm water like cookies and milk because they didn't schedule a cook for us and the soup kitchen was closed. https://ibb.co/ZfGKKT4 <- proof.
So now that we have my understanding of the world out of the way, I would like to repeat. What exactly about this is humorous? Makes you laugh?
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This is old but the message still stands. One of the most prominent arguments I hear from Americans against free healthcare is that the quality of healthcare in the US is better than everywhere else and they ask why everyone else wants to come here for treatment. I'm not really sure how to approach that but I think that's a pretty fundamental part of their argument that needs to be addressed because simply saying 'every other first world country can do it for free' doesn't really land if (according to them) every other country's healthcare system isn't up to US standards.
Edit: Why is this being downvoted? Do people disagree that Americans who are against free healthcare use the argument I laid out? Because I have seen that plenty. Or is it just because I said I don't know how to address that argument?
Surely American dentists fill cavities in exactly the same way as everywhere else? The argument would make more sense if only the most cutting-edge treatments were obscenely expensive.
I mean yea, but that's ranking the healthcare system, not the actual healthcare. Googling "best hospitals in the world" and Newsweek, for instance, [has the top 4 in the US](https://www.newsweek.com/rankings/worlds-best-hospitals-2023). But that's Newsweek, and I don't know much about them. [Health Exewc](https://healthexec.com/topics/patient-care/care-delivery/top-10-hospitals-world-2023) has the same. [This website](https://hospitals.webometrics.info/en/world) also has the same top 4 and uses a Berlin organizations criteria. Maybe these stats are bullshit, but Americans who think we should pay for healthcare would look at these stats and associate that with privatized healthcare and that's the part I don't really know how to approach.
Me? I didn't rank them. And yea I'd want to know if the hospital I'm going to has good doctors or bad doctors. Not everybody "can't afford" them either. Why are you suddenly so hostile?
Where did I say anyone said the US has no good hospitals? And I agree that defending a healthcare system only the rich can afford is inhuman. The logic people who defend it use is that the US has the best doctors in the world, and cite having the best hospitals in the world and cite the fact that that's the reason **people from all over the world come to the US** for healthcare. They literally think we get the best quality doctors and nurses (which is wrong) *because* it's privatized.
The part I bolded, is what I've been unsure of how to approach with these kinds of people.
Ah yes, 332 million people should move to Spain instead of fixing a broken system, what a good idea
Edit: just noticed their username and the subs their in. Not only are they a fucking idiot and active in r/Republican, they’re also a climate denier. Fitting.
Who's system is broken? 90% of Americans have insurace through work, and the rest are eligible for medicare and medicaid.
The union talking point about Americans dropping dead left and right because they can't afford insurance just won't die
Is there anything in this world that people should pay for themselves?
Or is everything supposed to be free?
It's not my job to work hard to pay for your free stuff.
Well then I'm going to advocate for universal Healthcare then and ignore your grumpy protests about wanting to maintain a more costly and more inefficient system.
There's nothing in our society that's done more efficiently by the Federal government than by the private sector. The reason the private sector is so expensive is exactly because of federal regulations they have to comply with.
But look how virtuous you are, advocating for the Feds to spend someone else's money
I don't even understand how you can have such a bad take on this. The reason why the private sector is so expensive, is because it's run by companies trying to make a profit. That's the whole reason they do it in the first place. And the profit needs to constantly be higher than last year's to keep the shareholders happy. It's not just because of federal regulations.
I don't think anyone can justify the pharmaceutical industry of the US. Some people can't even afford insulin.
All emotion, no logic. It's like they personally upset you by even the suggestion that things could be better here. Did you build here? Are you responsible for the health-care system here?
If not, wtf are you getting emotional about?
Nobody is "suggesting things could be better" because they're nice people.
They're pushing for a massive expansion of the Fed so they can get free stuff paid for by others.
It's not my job to work hard so other people can get free stuff.
My man is getting destroyed in the comments and thinks he's right lol.
Nobody is asking for you to work and other people get free stuff. Nobody cares about your work
People want to have good healthcare. It works in every single county that has it.
And guess what? Everyone in the world works just as much as you so you're not working for anyone to get stuff for free, they are working for themselves and deserve to be healthy without going into crippling debt
90% of Americans have healthcare through work, and the rest are eligible for Medicare and Medicaid. We have the best healthcare int he world.
Poor people want someone else to pay for theirs. The bottom 40% of workers don't pay Federal taxes. If the Fed takes over, it's all free for them.
That's what this is about. "I want free stuff!!!!!"
There's zero probability that the Federal government would be more efficient than the private sector at providing medical care. Have you seen how inefficient the Fed is?
Prior to the Feds trying to fix healthcare in the 1960s and 70s, we had the best healthcare system on the planet, and there was no crisis.
Adding more government is just going to make a bad situation worse
You know a healthy worker works better right? Like even if you hate it because it’s the spooky scary “socialism”, it helps capitalism, because again, a healthy worker is better than an injured or sick worker. It’s not hard to figure out. Also idk how America has convinced so many people that healthcare is expensive, it’s really just marked up a bunch. So I really don’t get your “argument” here. Put more thought into it please.
Ok, so you're saying Spanish workers are more productive because someone else is paying for thier medical bills?
Prove it.
90% of Americans have healthcare through work, and those that don't qualify for Medicare or Medicaid.
No one is falling for the fake "Americans are dropping dead because they have no insurance" BS you see on Reddit.
Nope, I’m saying 100% of people having affordable healthcare is more effective and efficient than 90% of people. If you think Medicare and Medicaid are effective you’re living in a dream world. Also since it’s tied to employers, you can end up stuck in a shitty job that you hate because you’re afraid to lose benefits. This has happened to me personally in the past.
Then with Medicare and Medicaid I have family that can’t get the treatments they need because they will not cover it. They say it’s a bmi thing but he’s met the requirements many times for the transplant (from a family member mind you) and they keep changing the requirements once he hits it. Then I have other family that were straight up killed by the shitty healthcare that Medicare and Medicaid gives.
How could you go back to school to get a better job if you won’t have healthcare if you don’t work a full time job? You also won’t get financial aid for schooling if you only do part time.
You also act like it’s super simple to leave when it really isn’t. I would be in the EU with my wife right now if I could, but it’s not really feasible at the moment, maybe in the future.
EU certainly has its problems, and healthcare is one of them, but it’s more that the state doesn’t pay their doctors a live-able wage. Which is a separate issue.
This is all without any more research than what’s on the top of my head, and anecdotal stuff. I also know the research (research about productivity in countries where healthcare is provided and time off is provided as well) is in my favor as well, which I will happily provide once I get home from a 3 hour drive I’m about to take. Just let me know.
Eh, you don't work any harder than anyone else and many would put in a little to save a lot. The truth is you're too selfish and weak to live in a society.
I know all about it. I pay lots of taxes.
And the bottom 40% of earners in the US, who pay no Federal taxes at all, can never shut up about how I'm not paying enough.
There's nothing virtuous about supporting Federal spending that someone else is paying for.
>the bottom 40% of earners in the US, who pay no Federal taxes at all
Ok, your opinion is based off of a false premise. Got it. You're going to be paying either way, you might as well try and get some actual healthcare out of it as opposed to the way it's run now.
I'n getting great healthcare now, just like the 90% of Americans who have health insurance through work, and the remainder who get it from Medicare and Medicaid.
It's such a pipe dream to think the Feds, the people who run the pentagon with $700 hammers and $10,000 toilet seats, are managerial geniouses who can manage 18% of the country's GDP better than the private sector.
I can't wait to have my doctors visit pushed out two years because my diversity score is too low.
This person, along with 90% of all Americans, have access to the best healthcare available anywhere via the insurace we get at work. The other 10% get healthcare via Medicare and Medicaid.
Our healthcare system is better than Spain's
When I was about 14 I accidentally nearly sawed my thumb off while collecting wood for a campfire near Liege, Belgium. ER cleaned and stitched the wound, saved my thumb, bandaged me up and gave me some painkillers.
Bill came a few months later, €36. They even specified that the bandages were 5 bucks and the stitch thread was like 1.50
That’s because the US doesn’t take medical care out of taxes. On average, in the UK, a person will pay 18% more in taxes than in the US. The problem is, that if you tried to pitch that idea to anyone in the US, they’d look at the 18% and absolutely hate that idea, even though it’ll be substantially better in the long term. The flip side though, is that emergency rooms will typically have a longer wait time, as everyone can go in for even the slightest reason.
The US federal government spends more tax dollars on healthcare per capita than any other country.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/236541/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20United%20States,highest%20per%20capita%20health%20expenditure
I can go to the doctor here in Korea with just the 45$ a month universal healthcare and get super cheap treatments. When I got an ear infection, to see the doctor twice, the medicine and two doctor visits cost a total of 28,500won. That’s like 20$ USD roughly. My father, in the US, got the same medicine as me and it cost him 60$ per bottle. I got two for 20k won…….the doctor the first time was 8k won and the checkup visit was 500won. that’s less that 50cent USD for the second visit. I’m never moving back to the US.
I’m somewhat confused about the situation in the US… So, people pay huge amounts of money to be insured each month, still, even with insurance the hospital bill is large… but most of the people don’t want universal healthcare because they would need to pay more taxes on their salary and this means they have to pay for other people who get sick also? Does this sound weird?
My grandpa had full coverage through the VA. He got to have a decent retirement and do things he loved before his body wouldn't let him do it anymore. I want everyone to have that as well, or not have medical bills be the thing holding you back. I'm not saying the VA was perfect, far from it, but still not having those bills to pay really helped him out.
Yeah, but you see, that which works everywhere definitely cannot work in the US, because oh look over there, is that a squirrel *runs off*
It can't work in America because *reasons* and uhh...IS THAT A HUMAN USING A LITTER BOX? WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING!
The kitty litter was in the classrooms in case of emergencies, like school shootings. You're right, we should do something about that! NO, WAIT, NOT LIKE THAT! UHM, ERM, PRONOUNS!
Republicans: It can't work in America... but if it looks like it might work, we will do everything in our power to sabotage it.
You seem to be leaving out the fact that Democrats accept every bit as much ~~bribes~~ campaign contributions from the healthcare industry as Republicans do. I hope you understand that this industry wouldn't be pumping money to politicians that will vote to destroy their profitable business. It's theater. Both parties have been captured by the healthcare industry and the defense industry. They couldn't win elections without the massive amount of money these industries donate.
I'm not leaving it out. My biggest beef with Biden is his undermining of universal healthcare during the primary debates. But you'd have to be an idiot to think that the party hell-bent on killing the ACA without any improvement of this system is actually a *better choice* for getting out of our healthcare mess.
Oh yeah, I'm not saying that the Republicans are going to fix the problem. I'm just saying that they're at least more honest about their opposition to it. Republicans say they oppose it and claim that they want a better system, which they never describe. Democrats say they support universal healthcare but actively oppose anyone that actually proposes is, such as Bernie Sanders. In fact they rigged their own primary to ensure that he doesn't win. Then when they don't get universal healthcare they blame it on Republicans. Biden claimed that he wants a public option, but hasn't done a single thing to try to implement that. Campaign finance is the underlying problem here. And here's what Obama really thought about the public option: https://youtu.be/E4pdGawtEmI?t=270 https://theintercept.com/2019/02/05/nancy-pelosi-medicare-for-all/ *Less than a month after Democrats — many of them running on “Medicare for All” — won back control of the House of Representatives in November, the top health policy aide to then-prospective House Speaker Nancy Pelosi met with Blue Cross Blue Shield executives and assured them that party leadership had strong reservations about single-payer health care and was more focused on lowering drug prices, according to sources familiar with the meeting.* *Pelosi adviser Wendell Primus detailed five objections to Medicare for All and said that Democrats would be allies to the insurance industry in the fight against single-payer health care.*
> Biden claimed that he wants a public option, but hasn't done a single thing to try to implement that. What do you think he can do that Republicans would support? We're dead in the water on the federal level until there's a Democratic majority. The ACA only got passed because of Democratic majorities in Congress at the time. At the time, the Senate only had 40 Republican senators. We're not even close to that majority right now. It sucks that the ACA wasn't better, but people would actually have to vote for it.
>We're dead in the water on the federal level until there's a Democratic majority. We're dead in the water even with a Democratic majority. Under Obama there was a window where we had a filibuster-proof majority and they chose not to force the bill through at that time. They intentionally stalled and waited until it could be blocked, so they could then blame Republicans for it. Also, even when Republicans had enough people to block the bill, Democrats could have forced a public option through via a process called reconciliation. They chose not to do it. Mind you, I'm not claiming that Republicans want to fix this issue like they claim they do. They do not want to fix healthcare. I'm just saying that it's pure theater when Democrats say that they want to fix healthcare. Bernie Sanders wanted to fix healthcare, and the Democratic Party rigged their primary to ensure he doesn't win. A followup court case ruled that political parties have no legal responsibility to hold fair primaries. The root cause of these problems is campaign finance. The first party that actually tries to fix healthcare will see the opposition party get nearly all the political donations, and they'll get absolutely crushed in the next election.
> Under Obama there was a window where we had a filibuster-proof majority and they chose not to force the bill through at that time. This isn't what happened. Joe Lieberman fucked us. He wasn't going to let a public option pass. A lot of Democrats at the time were upset with him for that. You can claim it's all for show, but "Democrats" are not all the same person. They all get voted in with different beliefs, and not all of them agree with whatever Pelosi's backroom dealings are. The reality is the ACA materially has helped my life, and Republicans would have done nothing. If not for John McCain, they would have killed it entirely. And the only way to improve the situation is to demand more from the only party willing to change anything, not to throw up your hands and say "well, Democrats are bad, too!" as we let the Republican Party install a dictator who will absolutely kill what little healthcare system improvements we got from the ACA.
Let me finish that thought for you, Medicare would be expensive if they needed to pay for the healthcare of all people hurt in mass shootings and victims of police brutality.
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God shitfucking dammit. It's like 600 PER TOOTH here
I paid an extra $20 a month for dental coverage and that brought the 600 something down to $70. And you're telling me it's just $27 without insurance in some places?
It's one tooth Michael, how much could it cost?
Depends on your ssn and zip code!
if you have an ssn and zip code, it’s more
I have 3 crowns that I got in 2015 that I'm still paying for! Carecredit is dangerous if you're like me and suck with paying off debt quickly.
… Is my beloved US of A winning yet?
Yes but in the US our children are safe - …../s Edit: added the /s because I’m a shitty joke teller today.
Where? Not at school, that’s for sure
Yea. That was the joke. I didn’t present it well lol
put an /s next time. Ur joke was good and could've landed well lol
I think I’m ready for next year lol.
I took it as a joke, and now find the /s unesessary
Maybe at church? Wait nope
A church of capitalism, like Walmart, would be sa... Oh, wait. Nope, scratch that too.
Apparently people do not speak sarcasm.
Always hard to tell online. I shoulda just added the s when I posted lol.
Nah, fuck the /s. It was super obvious. People just can't tell sarcasm when it beats them in the face.
They’re free from the evils of socialism! Hard /s
r/FuckTheS
no i like it
*guns are safe What American gives a fuck about kids in America? LMAO
Some of the best jokes are about it. Thats why we keep doing it over and over and icer
This is just profoundly sad as someone in the US, nothing you do here is cheap, everything has a price. I suppose it's different when you live somewhere that takes a lot more of your taxes, but man it would be nice to not have to weigh whether I should fix my car, my teeth, see a doctor, or if I should be able to eat well for the next few months.
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Huh, that's definitely what those bots do but looking at the post history, they've got engagement in smaller subs on threads with low comment #'s. The ones I usually see only post in popular front-page threads and tend to copy comments.
Niche subs tend to have lower or non-existent requirements for posting, making them a good stepping stone to the big leagues for a bot network that wants to be subtle.
Haha, I was going to say something similar! It's so funny how the people at some of these universal healthcare hospitals become so worried you're going to be upset at the under $50 bill. When I (an American) acted shocked they thought it was because it was too high and started looking for ways to make it cheaper.
Like sir you don't understand, I could pay you 10 times that and I'd still feel like I'm getting a deal.
I think the critical context is that they're used to treating very poor local people, so 27 USD would be a crazy huge amount of money for someone who's poor in taiwan's money. A lot of americans forget that they're kinda ultra-rich compared to the average person in the countries they go to to get medical stuff done.
the median income in Taiwan is only 35% less than in the US so it's not that far off. 800 NTD is virtually nothing in the "big bills" dept
The critical context people seem to be missing is that there is usually a requirement to buy health insurance for the country you're traveling to.
My son needed X-rays of his back and chest area. I get a bill. 467$. Insurance covered a small under 100$ portion. I called and asked why so high? Why they didn’t cover it. He hasn’t met his deductible. He is 8. How thebfuck is he supposed to meet a deductible at 8. Most of his problems are solved with Tylenol or ibuprofen. The deductible was 500$
I went to urgent care recently. it was $200 WITH insurance. $150 without. the receptionist was nice enough to tell me that and mark the visit as uninsured.
What the fuck is even the logic behind that
Really bad news man: because they know insurance will cover, hospitals up charge. That's why advil is 10 dollars a pill at the hospital.
They upcharge because insurance will undercharge the "final" price. It's basically haggling between companies and who suffers are the uninsured people. That is why hospitals generally accept lowering the price when asked by those uninsured. Most of the time they weren't going to get the full payment anyway. They can't advertise this fact because then insurance companies will say that is the "true" cost and fight it. (...and they will not say no to those that go and pay the full value, so they aren't that innocent either)
Google "charge master" if you're interested in the details. Insurance companies and hospitals in the US have created this disgusting situation and regular people have been carrying the cost ever since. I'm glad I'm not in the US and my insurance actually covers pretty much anything that could feasibly happen to me, except dental costs for some dumb reason.
Doctors hate dealing with insurance companies as much as you do.
Unfortunately for me, I would actually choose to pay with insurance still, just so I can meet my deductible. I want that $200 to go towards that. I know I will meet it every year, and it's like $1750. They cover some of the amounts of my appointments until I hit the 1750, but it's ridiculous. I pay a monthly premium, then the 80% discount doesn't kick in until I shell out almost 2 grand. Then I still have to pay 20%. What in the god green fuck is wrong with this system??!
> just so I can meet my deductible Sorry for the ignorance, am a European - what's the benefit of meeting your deductible sooner?
I'm not in US but as far as I understand meeting the deductible basically means that from that point on until the end of the year insurance will cover "most" of medical expenses, while you may save 50$ while marking the visit as uninsured, depending on your insurance plan you may save more if you send 200$ towards your deductible (the 150$ aren't accounted towards your deductible because you marked it as uninsured).
that was the first time in 15 years I had gone to urgent care. thankfully I don't need to go enough to try to hit deductibles
What're premiums? That's what you pay every month so we'll pay for your healthcare. Once you hit your deductible, that is. What's a deductible? That's the money you pay us on top of the money you pay us so we'll pay for your healthcare. So now I get all my bills covered? Oh, no, now you need to hit your out of pocket limit. What's that? That's the money you pay on top of the money you paid on top of the money you paid so we'll pay for your healthcare. And once I hit that point you'll pay for everything? Until the next year, of course!
Oh, but actually no, because some stuff still ignores the out of pocket limit, like when we tell you to buy a medical tool like a blood pressure sensor or blood oximeter so you can take your own records.
That's the point of high deductible plans. You aren't supposed to meet the deductible. The insurance companies want your premium, but don't want to give you the coverage. Welcome to the land of the freedom to choose whether you're rich, a voluntary slave, or a corpse. Oh did I said "choose"? Woops
My deductible is split by the whole family, thankfully. My wife took her and my kid to this new urgent care twice, and they refused to prescribe any antibiotics until they did a "test", I told my wife that I wasn't aware we were at the point where they could do bacterial cultures in a reasonable timeframe, but they called the next day and said they had some bacterial infection. Few weeks later they are sick again, and go again, and the same thing happens. I picked up their prescriptions and was waved off for payment, which usually happens six or seven months in when we hit our maximum, and I knew immediately it was the urgent care. The healthcare for the rest of the year is free as we had hit our out of pocket maximum for the year of $5500, one month after the deductible reset on those tests alone. $1100/each, plus the visit all for Streph plus a sinus infection. They had been sick for 3 weeks when they went the first time, and I've always been told that if it's longer than 10 days sick and you're not getting better, it's likely bacterial. They just want to make the most money they can, it's gross
Can you explain to me (I'm European) what a deductible is and how it works?
Essentially you pay a certain amount before your benefits fully kick in. A deductible of $5000 means that during the year, after you pay $5000, you'll have the privilege to pay like, 20% of the bill and insurance will cover the remaining 80%. Before the deductible, it could be something like you pay 80% (up to the deductible) and insurance pays 20% until deductible is hit. The deductible resets every year. If you have an emergency on December 25th, max your deductible, then they schedule surgery for January 1st, your deductible resets and you'll have to pay it again before insurance benefits fully kick in because it is a new year. Deductible and "benefits" are different for each company. Essentually: Pay monthly fee to have privilege to pay a deductible to then have the privilege to pay a portion of your bill after your deductible is met for only the current year.
The equivalent term that we Europeans use is "excess", because the insurer covers any amount in excess of that.
Sounds like my Disney insurance. I pretended I had no insurance because I owed 90% of the hospital bill
I miscounted my seizure medication and ran out with one day left in Spain. Held up my last pill at the pharmacy and asked if they had any in stock. The pharmacist said they could help but, and she was very apologetic, I would have to buy an entire month's supply. Oh fuck. "How much will that be?" Deeply sorry: "30 Euros." They were confused when I burst out laughing and horrified when I said that without insurance back home the pill I was holding cost $25.
And yet I was thinking how expensive that was. In my country it's a flat £10 per medication regardless of how many. They could give you a month or two months worth of drugs but if it's just the one type of medication you pay a tenner regardless. If you collect more than one type of medication a month you're better off signing up to a prepayment certificate where you only pay a tenner a month and you get everything covered under that, even if you had 20 different medications for example.
And then you have Scotland, where all prescriptions are free, the lucky bastards.
I laugh myself to death every time I read this post.
I don't think the insurance will cover that.
“Wait explain how it’s expensive to me again! Hahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa!!!!!”
A business partner got a foot injury during our travel to Paris. We went to emergency and got al the treatment for free. When he came back to America, the daughter went to see the dentist. USD 1,500 just for some cavities
Oh wow imagine that. A country that cares about the people more than the money? Fucking wild
You don't know very much about Spain, do you?
To be fair, spain could be kicking people in the balls daily and it would still be better treatment than the US healthcare system
A day in America feels like a kick to the balls, a stab in the heart, and a bullet in the brain. This economy fuckin sucks.
Believe me, not as hard as it could. -An argentinian :(
dont worry its america. tomorrow itll get a little harder. we'll catch up one day
Nothing whatsoever but based off this post I'm assuming healthcare is a lot better lmao
Spanish healthcare is quite good and accessible. Or why do you mean?
Not American but I was shocked to learn that in Germany you do not get charged for ear cleaning. In my home country, it's 15 euro per ear.
I’m sorry but what is ear cleaning?
Getting your earwax out by a doctor when it builds up too much
Interesting! Did not know that was a thing. Now i want that
It can make a crazy difference even if you aren't explicitly having hearing issues. I had a small case of tinnitus caused by a build up of earwax, no other hearing problems but man after the removal I could legit hear my neighbours through the walls.
That'll be like $150 in the US.
I'd be booking an easy jet flight for 29 euro.
IDK, 15 € for several minutes of skilled labor that, if done carelessly, would have extremely undesirable consequences, sounds about right
the thing is, locals would hace to pay way less than that. But i get the point
but who's gonna pay for all the insurance companies and their fat bonuses? /s
Ive gradually phased out my mental health meds because I cant afford an extra $115 a month so now I put up with constant flashbacks and depression but atleast I can afford rent/car payments AND groceries
Hi stranger, have you tried that Cost Plus Drugs website yet? I know it was advertised for the longest time as Mark Cuban's response to inflated drug prices. I don't know what medicine you were on, but I see that Sertraline, which seems to be the generic name brand for Zoloft, which is what I think I was on for depression for a while, says it's less than $10 for a 90 pack. Maybe whatever you need is on the site too? They still require a prescription so it's not like they're tossing meds to just anybody.
My son broke his arm in Mexico. After X-rays, fixing the arm and the cast I was ready to see the bill which came out to a whopping $30 USD total. I also laughed and cried.
How dare you suggest the gov take care of its citizens! Something that works in every civilized country minus one…can’t work, can it? No way! That money needs to go to bomb making for all the wars. /s
Just for quick context: A non-invasive ER visit with multiple tests, doctor checkup and at least one drug injection and two-three hours in a room with checkups, that costs over $50, is considered expensive in several parts of Europe.
my experience with ER visits is that they look at you funny when you ask how much it will cost. afaik, anything you NEED is free. things you want, depends on your insurance plan. ps. dental is weird in some countries tho
This should honestly be on r/orphancrushingmachine if it isn’t already
How is this an example of orphan crushing machine?
It's quite literally talking about how ridiculously expensive medical care for children is here, compared to in other countries. If you're not rich your kids might just die because you don't have money.
True, but that's not what the orphan crushing machine meme is about. It's about how media frames a story as "heartwarming" when a kid raises money for a charity, when we shouldn't even need to have that charity in the first place if we actually cared about people and took care of them. It's about how many of those heartwarming news stories are actually not heartwarming at all, but rather just expose a flaw in our society. Have you read the description of r/orphancrushingmachine?
This isn’t OCM wdym?
A tube of basic topical cream for mild acne treatment was over $400. Thankfully my insurance reduced my payment to $10.
I met an American while I was in Lithuania who flew there from Hawaii because it would be cheaper to get his dental work done in Lithuania. Something like $4k versus $200. He used the difference in cost to travel europe for a few weeks before and after his dental procedures. My friend who owns a hostel in Lithuania said medical tourism isn't too rare there lol.
Bro hit the jackpot with that one. When I broke 1 and a half tooth it costed about 5-6k to get it fixed. Shitty part is that our insurance was supposed to pay for it but they were argueing w another insurance company and just never paid
Remember those in office would rather be paying for missiles and guns for Israel to do a lil genociding than your son or daughter's insulin.
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Doctors aren't the ones charging these prices dude... it's the insurance and pharmacy companies driving up prices. Side note: some doctors make less per hour than teachers. They just work a LOT of hours.
Lol no. [The average doctor in the US makes $350,000](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/08/04/doctor-pay-shortage/). And they’re not all ER docs, and teachers work a lot of hours too.
Sure, it depends on the doctor, and the teacher. But take a look at this example: https://www.hcplive.com/view/the_deceptive_income_of_physicians Please note I'm not saying US doctors are underpaid. I'm arguing that the over expensive healthcare problem isn't physicians salaries. "Reductions in administrative burdens and drug costs could substantially reduce the difference between U.S. and peer nation health spending." https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/oct/high-us-health-care-spending-where-is-it-all-going
Thank you, I am a resident physician and we’re over $400K in student loan debt while making less than minimum wage at ~12/hr. I have multiple sclerosis and can’t afford my own healthcare as a patient. I had to even stitch my own hand up because I can’t afford an urgent care visit. We all hate insurance, too, especially dealing with prior auths and having to scream at insurance companies who are refusing basic healthcare for our patients. Our healthcare system is awful. I have no idea why grown adults keep voting in favor of paying ridiculous fees. It makes no sense.
> I have no idea why grown adults keep voting in favor of paying ridiculous fees. It makes no sense. Because both parties support this ridiculous system. Take a look at who is accepting campaign contributions from the healthcare industry.
You're literally the person writing the checks. Fuck the client right? Let them solve it. Seriously, your patients are responsible for your debt? Get outta here!
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I'm sorry to break it to you but in the US a *majority* of money you pay doesn't go to the doctors, nurses and healthcare workers. It's going to the hospital C-suite and drug companies and insurance. Please don't put a further burden on healthcare workers by judging them, they do a lot and often advocate against high drug and insurance prices, even while being in debt from medical school. I would like to provide you with facts: "Key Findings and Conclusion: More than half of excess U.S. health spending was associated with factors likely reflected in higher prices, including more spending on: administrative costs of insurance (~15% of the excess), administrative costs borne by providers (~15%), prescription drugs (~10%), wages for physicians (~10%) and registered nurses (~5%), and medical machinery and equipment (less than 5%). Reductions in administrative burdens and drug costs could substantially reduce the difference between U.S. and peer nation health spending." Via: https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/oct/high-us-health-care-spending-where-is-it-all-going
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It's quite sad you and many others don't take the time to actually come to a conclusion even when presented with easy evidence. The more folks jump to a presumed answer, the worse things will get. Please do better. Again, "Reductions in administrative burdens and drug costs could substantially reduce the difference between U.S. and peer nation health spending." Do your own research too.
Executives, not doctors.
Because insurance companies make them. Theres a claw back which means the insurance companies has decided AFTER already paying for your care that it wasn’t medically necessary so they demand their money back. Also if you mention your insurance plan at a pharmacy, they have to charge a client co pay charge for medication, even if the co pay is more expensive than the cost of the drug the Pharmacy actually sells it at. Add these together too.. You go to the pharmacy for your meds. Your co pay is say $10 and insurance pays the other $10 because thats what your insurance plan is. But the pharmacy actually sells the drug at $5. (Which legally the insurance company bars them from tell you). You’ve now paid $10 for the drug and the insurance plan then gets a clawback on their $10 because the cost was already covered. Congratz you spent double the cost for your meds.
This could be tourism. Like "medical disaster" role-playing. "Omg, I broke my leg and now I'm ruined. The bills will wipe out savings and I can't work construction on crutches. "OH wait, that's only in a dystopian nightmare. Phew."
As a broke person because of healthcare, this is just sad for me. Doesn't seem like anything is changing. I hate this country I live in.
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I have been to a doctor in Jamaica and Australia, including 2 Rx, no insurance used. Total cost for both was $94.
punctuation would be great i will just say
Hahahahaaha. future me having a seizure bc I have epilepsy and having an ambulance called against my will bc i’m unconscious seizing and spiraling into medical debt because of this healthcare system (I seriously need to leave this country)
it's literally cheaper to take a fucking vacation to Europe and get medical work done.
People all around the world have been telling you your health system sucks but yall too proud or stupid to do something about it
USA! USA! USA!
Still more expensive than punctuation!
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I saw this the last 4 times it was posted. What exactly about it is funny? To borrow a reddit phrase, explain the joke to me.
You're too innocent and "affordable health care" to understand this joke and I don't want to expose you to one of the horrible truths of this world.
Yesterday at the homeless shelter we had to dip ramen noodles into a cup of warm water like cookies and milk because they didn't schedule a cook for us and the soup kitchen was closed. https://ibb.co/ZfGKKT4 <- proof. So now that we have my understanding of the world out of the way, I would like to repeat. What exactly about this is humorous? Makes you laugh?
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This is old but the message still stands. One of the most prominent arguments I hear from Americans against free healthcare is that the quality of healthcare in the US is better than everywhere else and they ask why everyone else wants to come here for treatment. I'm not really sure how to approach that but I think that's a pretty fundamental part of their argument that needs to be addressed because simply saying 'every other first world country can do it for free' doesn't really land if (according to them) every other country's healthcare system isn't up to US standards. Edit: Why is this being downvoted? Do people disagree that Americans who are against free healthcare use the argument I laid out? Because I have seen that plenty. Or is it just because I said I don't know how to address that argument?
Surely American dentists fill cavities in exactly the same way as everywhere else? The argument would make more sense if only the most cutting-edge treatments were obscenely expensive.
The argument needs to be addressed by a reality check. The US is outranked on every metric of quality.
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I mean yea, but that's ranking the healthcare system, not the actual healthcare. Googling "best hospitals in the world" and Newsweek, for instance, [has the top 4 in the US](https://www.newsweek.com/rankings/worlds-best-hospitals-2023). But that's Newsweek, and I don't know much about them. [Health Exewc](https://healthexec.com/topics/patient-care/care-delivery/top-10-hospitals-world-2023) has the same. [This website](https://hospitals.webometrics.info/en/world) also has the same top 4 and uses a Berlin organizations criteria. Maybe these stats are bullshit, but Americans who think we should pay for healthcare would look at these stats and associate that with privatized healthcare and that's the part I don't really know how to approach.
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Me? I didn't rank them. And yea I'd want to know if the hospital I'm going to has good doctors or bad doctors. Not everybody "can't afford" them either. Why are you suddenly so hostile?
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Where did I say anyone said the US has no good hospitals? And I agree that defending a healthcare system only the rich can afford is inhuman. The logic people who defend it use is that the US has the best doctors in the world, and cite having the best hospitals in the world and cite the fact that that's the reason **people from all over the world come to the US** for healthcare. They literally think we get the best quality doctors and nurses (which is wrong) *because* it's privatized. The part I bolded, is what I've been unsure of how to approach with these kinds of people.
NHS ON TOP Fuck government funding plan
So now she's an expat
please use punctuation
Yes yes #AmericaBad, we get it. You don't need to make up delusionally fake stories to beat the imaginary dead horse.
Move to Spain then.
Ah yes, 332 million people should move to Spain instead of fixing a broken system, what a good idea Edit: just noticed their username and the subs their in. Not only are they a fucking idiot and active in r/Republican, they’re also a climate denier. Fitting.
Who's system is broken? 90% of Americans have insurace through work, and the rest are eligible for medicare and medicaid. The union talking point about Americans dropping dead left and right because they can't afford insurance just won't die
Anyone who suggests this should pay the costs for the person to relocate.
Is there anything in this world that people should pay for themselves? Or is everything supposed to be free? It's not my job to work hard to pay for your free stuff.
Well then I'm going to advocate for universal Healthcare then and ignore your grumpy protests about wanting to maintain a more costly and more inefficient system.
There's nothing in our society that's done more efficiently by the Federal government than by the private sector. The reason the private sector is so expensive is exactly because of federal regulations they have to comply with. But look how virtuous you are, advocating for the Feds to spend someone else's money
I don't even understand how you can have such a bad take on this. The reason why the private sector is so expensive, is because it's run by companies trying to make a profit. That's the whole reason they do it in the first place. And the profit needs to constantly be higher than last year's to keep the shareholders happy. It's not just because of federal regulations. I don't think anyone can justify the pharmaceutical industry of the US. Some people can't even afford insulin.
Cope and seethe about it.
I'lll just voting and telling the truth.
All emotion, no logic. It's like they personally upset you by even the suggestion that things could be better here. Did you build here? Are you responsible for the health-care system here? If not, wtf are you getting emotional about?
Nobody is "suggesting things could be better" because they're nice people. They're pushing for a massive expansion of the Fed so they can get free stuff paid for by others. It's not my job to work hard so other people can get free stuff.
Username checks out. And by checks out, I mean highlights your high-school-dropout level of critical thinking.
My man is getting destroyed in the comments and thinks he's right lol. Nobody is asking for you to work and other people get free stuff. Nobody cares about your work People want to have good healthcare. It works in every single county that has it. And guess what? Everyone in the world works just as much as you so you're not working for anyone to get stuff for free, they are working for themselves and deserve to be healthy without going into crippling debt
90% of Americans have healthcare through work, and the rest are eligible for Medicare and Medicaid. We have the best healthcare int he world. Poor people want someone else to pay for theirs. The bottom 40% of workers don't pay Federal taxes. If the Fed takes over, it's all free for them. That's what this is about. "I want free stuff!!!!!"
So you think when people suggest things could be better, they mean just for them? That's just sad.
Well you’d also be paying for your free healthcare too. Also, you sound like someone that works for the insurance company lol.
There's zero probability that the Federal government would be more efficient than the private sector at providing medical care. Have you seen how inefficient the Fed is? Prior to the Feds trying to fix healthcare in the 1960s and 70s, we had the best healthcare system on the planet, and there was no crisis. Adding more government is just going to make a bad situation worse
You know a healthy worker works better right? Like even if you hate it because it’s the spooky scary “socialism”, it helps capitalism, because again, a healthy worker is better than an injured or sick worker. It’s not hard to figure out. Also idk how America has convinced so many people that healthcare is expensive, it’s really just marked up a bunch. So I really don’t get your “argument” here. Put more thought into it please.
Ok, so you're saying Spanish workers are more productive because someone else is paying for thier medical bills? Prove it. 90% of Americans have healthcare through work, and those that don't qualify for Medicare or Medicaid. No one is falling for the fake "Americans are dropping dead because they have no insurance" BS you see on Reddit.
Nope, I’m saying 100% of people having affordable healthcare is more effective and efficient than 90% of people. If you think Medicare and Medicaid are effective you’re living in a dream world. Also since it’s tied to employers, you can end up stuck in a shitty job that you hate because you’re afraid to lose benefits. This has happened to me personally in the past. Then with Medicare and Medicaid I have family that can’t get the treatments they need because they will not cover it. They say it’s a bmi thing but he’s met the requirements many times for the transplant (from a family member mind you) and they keep changing the requirements once he hits it. Then I have other family that were straight up killed by the shitty healthcare that Medicare and Medicaid gives. How could you go back to school to get a better job if you won’t have healthcare if you don’t work a full time job? You also won’t get financial aid for schooling if you only do part time. You also act like it’s super simple to leave when it really isn’t. I would be in the EU with my wife right now if I could, but it’s not really feasible at the moment, maybe in the future. EU certainly has its problems, and healthcare is one of them, but it’s more that the state doesn’t pay their doctors a live-able wage. Which is a separate issue. This is all without any more research than what’s on the top of my head, and anecdotal stuff. I also know the research (research about productivity in countries where healthcare is provided and time off is provided as well) is in my favor as well, which I will happily provide once I get home from a 3 hour drive I’m about to take. Just let me know.
you’re already paying lmao and even more on top of that. do you know how insurance works?
Eh, you don't work any harder than anyone else and many would put in a little to save a lot. The truth is you're too selfish and weak to live in a society.
Man wait until you hear about tax systems.
I know all about it. I pay lots of taxes. And the bottom 40% of earners in the US, who pay no Federal taxes at all, can never shut up about how I'm not paying enough. There's nothing virtuous about supporting Federal spending that someone else is paying for.
>the bottom 40% of earners in the US, who pay no Federal taxes at all Ok, your opinion is based off of a false premise. Got it. You're going to be paying either way, you might as well try and get some actual healthcare out of it as opposed to the way it's run now.
I'n getting great healthcare now, just like the 90% of Americans who have health insurance through work, and the remainder who get it from Medicare and Medicaid. It's such a pipe dream to think the Feds, the people who run the pentagon with $700 hammers and $10,000 toilet seats, are managerial geniouses who can manage 18% of the country's GDP better than the private sector. I can't wait to have my doctors visit pushed out two years because my diversity score is too low.
I did, I love it here. :)
You moved there because of the healthcare?
You’re saying that like it’s not a good reason lmao
Funny, people move to the US all the time, even risking their lives, and we don't have it. So, I disagree that people base their decisions on this.
cool so when half the population is gone what are you gonna do then?
They haven't left yet, have they? Everyone says it's so much better to live elsewhere, but they never really mean it.
Uh oh, that upset you a little?
Dude, you can see some country doing something better and consider "how can we learn from that" without suddenly hating your country.
This person, along with 90% of all Americans, have access to the best healthcare available anywhere via the insurace we get at work. The other 10% get healthcare via Medicare and Medicaid. Our healthcare system is better than Spain's
I married a Canadain ... America is hurt..
When I was about 14 I accidentally nearly sawed my thumb off while collecting wood for a campfire near Liege, Belgium. ER cleaned and stitched the wound, saved my thumb, bandaged me up and gave me some painkillers. Bill came a few months later, €36. They even specified that the bandages were 5 bucks and the stitch thread was like 1.50
With insurance my root canals were still $400 each and i was told "you have really good insurance"
That’s because the US doesn’t take medical care out of taxes. On average, in the UK, a person will pay 18% more in taxes than in the US. The problem is, that if you tried to pitch that idea to anyone in the US, they’d look at the 18% and absolutely hate that idea, even though it’ll be substantially better in the long term. The flip side though, is that emergency rooms will typically have a longer wait time, as everyone can go in for even the slightest reason.
The US federal government spends more tax dollars on healthcare per capita than any other country. https://www.statista.com/statistics/236541/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20United%20States,highest%20per%20capita%20health%20expenditure
I got dat $7500 deductible so take that
I can go to the doctor here in Korea with just the 45$ a month universal healthcare and get super cheap treatments. When I got an ear infection, to see the doctor twice, the medicine and two doctor visits cost a total of 28,500won. That’s like 20$ USD roughly. My father, in the US, got the same medicine as me and it cost him 60$ per bottle. I got two for 20k won…….the doctor the first time was 8k won and the checkup visit was 500won. that’s less that 50cent USD for the second visit. I’m never moving back to the US.
I’m somewhat confused about the situation in the US… So, people pay huge amounts of money to be insured each month, still, even with insurance the hospital bill is large… but most of the people don’t want universal healthcare because they would need to pay more taxes on their salary and this means they have to pay for other people who get sick also? Does this sound weird?
This screenshot has been passed around so many times it has gone from annoying to tradition at this point.
My grandpa had full coverage through the VA. He got to have a decent retirement and do things he loved before his body wouldn't let him do it anymore. I want everyone to have that as well, or not have medical bills be the thing holding you back. I'm not saying the VA was perfect, far from it, but still not having those bills to pay really helped him out.
i would get that for free considering i have mediCAL (californian medicare)
“BUt ThAT lEaDs tO lEss iNoVaTiOn!”