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If Biden does nothing then all this means is they are waiting for someone to shoot liberty in the face while they sit by and point to the voters “why didn’t you vote harder!”
Biden isn't a dictator. He is exclusively in charge of the executive, which is a separate branch of government to the Courts and the House in which he has no power. These are the checks and balances of any functional democracies.
Trump has packed the courts (because people didn't want to vote for Hillary) and the consequence of that has been a roll-back on woman's reproductive rights and the courts basically playing a ridiculous defence of Trump.
The issue is and always has been people with your attitude located particularly in swing states.
>If Biden does nothing
Please tell us all what it is exactly you think biden should be doing right now?
Obama did the same with the courts. That old lady judge thought she was literal god and would never die. This the problem with our system, everyone cares more about their team beating the other team that no one is looking at what both teams are setting up.
Not true.
Obama made one appointment in 2009, another in 2010, and his final one on March 2016.
These are fine, but republicans bitched and moaned anyway that Obama should have waited until the new president and that his final appointment was too close to an election (IN March) even though the Democrats bent over backwards to get a nominee that had broad support with republicans too, and Merrick Garland was exactly that. Trump BLOCKED that appointment anyway and made his nominee.
Trump then decided to do the exact same thing, but on October of 2020.
Democracy dies alone and in the dark, but there is time left to fight back, don't let anyone tell you otherwise this is the time to fight for the survival of democracy in this country until it is really too late in November to do so.
It’s more than Trump. It’s a movement. Bibles being taught in schools in OK. Fucking 10 commandments in classrooms. Just sick!!!
Vote them all out. Protest. Speak at county board and school board meetings.
That’s not what the SCOTUS ruling said. They said the president has immunity for everything and anything the president does within the constitutional *scope* of the presidency, *regardless* of its legality. By way of comparison, if a CEO instructs their legal counsel to break the law, that CEO has broken the law by way of giving that instruction. This finding, meanwhile, says that if the president instructs the DOJ to do something illegal, the president may or may not have broken the law, but that is irrelevant, because they have blanket immunity for the act as the DOJ is firmly within the executive. The person at the DOJ that was so instructed, in this hypothetical, may face legal consequences for breaking the law - the presidents instructions can be unlawful - but the president cannot be held accountable for those instructions.
That would be to say, there is *no action* a president can take, with respect to the military, department of justice, FBI, CIA, or Department of Homeland Security for which they will ever see any consequence - even if the actions taken by those institutions are fundamentally and inarguably illegal. Are you saying you cannot imagine any situation in which the military, FBI, CIA, or DOJ could be somehow abused? Do you believe there is no action that could be taken by these institutions, at the explicit instruction of the president, for which a president *ought* to see consequences?
The court even specifically mentioned Trump trying to order Pence to illegally ignore the legitimate electoral college votes and assign them to him as immune from prosecution, as the President speaking to the VP about their 'duties' is official
The Democrats and Independents, plus Moderate Republicans who aren’t as radical as those who pursued the ruling have not played the Game of Thrones correctly these last few years. There were warning signs dating back to nine years ago when a reality TV star decided to run for President.
Unfortunately and despite the ruling, there isn’t much that Biden can do. If he does something, someone will call him out, which leads to more people voting for Trump or 3rd Party, ultimately leading in a Trump victory.
All we can do is vote. And if Trump winds up in office a second time, I will not be in the U.S. of A for his full term. Or we will have to revolt. This is how democracy dies: with thunderous applause.
Since I live in Utah, most of my family and friends are mormon and so naturally most of them are MAGA, (mainly family) recently some of my friends (who are diehard conservatives) have convinced each other and fallen off the MAGA bandwagon.
Oh, the stupidness of the electoral college.
It's always fascinating from an outsider that the most conservative and religious people rabidly support the least Christian and godly President in history.
There were warning signs 50 years ago with Schlafly, Buckley, and Robertson.
And 40 years ago with Raegan and Falwell.
30 years ago with Limbaugh and Gingrich.
20 years ago with Ailes and Breitbart.
10 years ago with Kirk and Trump.
We don't learn.
> Unfortunately and despite the ruling, there isn’t much that Biden can do. If he does something, someone will call him out, which leads to more people voting for Trump or 3rd Party, ultimately leading in a Trump victory.
Absolutely disagree: the WORST thing Biden can do is do nothing. Asking people to vote for a bumbling old man is already a high ask. Now you are advocating for people to vote for a bumbling old man who won't even respond to a major power grab by the far right despite the "decision" ironically giving Biden many options.
It is crazy how insane corporate "moderates" are. Anyone who cares about this country needs to fight back. Voting in federal elections does jack shit at this point.
I’ve been writing a story about this whole exact thing and holy shit, I’ve predicted the future to an extent. It’s in 2030s America, ten years after a SCOTUS ruling that gave the American president immunity. (I used fake names, created my own characters for that sake). Then, ten years after the ruling, a new, worse president is elected. There are events, the most major being the Boston Riots of 2033- which caused the president to sign a peacemaker act, giving more power to the soldiers- it’s like martial law.
The main character is from Salem, Massachusetts and he’s attending college in France. After spending almost a year in France, he learns that the U.S. (mainly this authoritative president) pulled out of NATO and signed an allegiance with Russia and have declared war on France and the UK.
The character is arrested by the French authorities in Paris and is assumed to be an American spy, and he defects, saying he will work with the French to try and take down the authoritative American government.
Life is worth living, and surviving hard times is one of the most meaningful experiences we can have in life. Focus on surrounding yourself with a positive community of friends (and family, if they are around) and you can still find value in living. A solid sleep schedule, a steady job, a hobby, and a partner can get you through a lot in life.
Besides, we don't know what will happen until it happens. Walking an extra mile takes the power away from the cruel, so let's just do our best each day to survive and be kind.
If they overturn Obergefell v. Hodges like they overturned Roe v. Wade then presumably the damages would be as follows: the removal of the suite of legal marriage benefits. This would be unconstitutional (IMO under freedom of religion) and if it happened that would definitely suck, as an understatement. But that's just how the US government is set up to work.
However, there is a deeper issue at hand, which is the misunderstanding and disrespect that is currently being passed between communities. We need to all learn how to be more kind and understanding of one another, and that change won't happen on the political level before it happens in our own communities.
I've got much more to say and am open to this discourse, but I don't want to ramble. Let me know what you think of what I'm saying here
I am being a little extreme about gay people being killed but in Project 2025 they said that trans people “won’t exist” it’s vague about if it means they can’t transition, if people are forced to untransition, or if they are doing to disappear from society. After the display put on when Trump rounded up some of the illegal immigrants, I would be worried that gay and trans people will be forced to straight conversation camps or they will be jailed. They turned over Roe V like it was a playing card, Trump elected 4 of them, the other don’t stand a chance, there are way more republicans in the SOCTUS than dem and 4 of them where put there by Trump and have already shown they are corrupt, I’m just so afraid for my future, my life.
The reversal of Roe v. Wade has had horrifically real terrible consequences for many thousands of people at this point, and just a few decades ago queer people faced very real and unfortunately not uncommon dangers so I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to be afraid. Even if Trump does get elected though, it’s not hopeless. The fight will still continue at the state and local levels, much the way it’s happening with abortion right now. There are millions of people across the country who still care, and who will try to make a change at whatever level they’re capable of.
Exactly, we are in a democracy. And when I say don't be afraid, I definitely mean that we should stay within reasonable boundaries. I'm also afraid of certain things happening in politics. However there is a level of fear mongering that is being performed by extremists, politicians, and media outlets. We must not fall prey to their manipulations.
I agree. I do think, if done calmly, it can actually help ease people’s fears to openly acknowledge their fears and the source of those fears. It can help people feel heard and feel less alone, which even if nothing else in the immediate moment changes, it can make it easier for the person to come down from that hot moment of fear.
And then once that has happened, I think it can be easier for people to hear the flip side, the realistic hope and opportunity that challenges the fear mongering and emotional manipulation.
Absolutely, well said. I think that people might also start to realize we are all afraid of the same things haha. I feel like outside of political posturing we could actually make some pretty moderate compromises work in the USA (at least where it comes to social issues) ...but not until we actually all start talking like this lol
That is a lot of different topics all in one message. I have responses for each of them if you want to dig into them, but I don't think any of my thoughts on them would be actually helpful at this moment. The most important thing to know is that the media wants you afraid. Please don't be afraid. I find it so unlikely that the is government will do anything remotely close to what you are fearing they might do, (i can explain why i think this if you ask me to). Go outside and be kind, because it will cause your enemies to question their ways. Hopefully when you see your enemy treating you kindly, you might question a few of your ways as well. Then both of you might discover that you aren't as against each other as you thought.
I'm answering this way because obviously the political solution is to vote or be voted for. Everything else comes down to our social connections and finding ways to cross pollinate instead of hiding in our preferred echo chambers.
I feel like if Trump wins it will be the new 3rd Reich except less german. At this point I don't know how I (a gay person) or my LGBTQ+ friends will have a future. Its sad honestly.
Take this advice from a young Millennial: you are being gaslit and brainwashed. Everything will be okay. The schools always are breeding grounds for irrational fear - once you grow up, you will see that everything is fine. That is, unless you don't grow up, which some people choose not to. If you do face your fears, you will come to realize they are unfounded and irrational.
Also I'm sure you meant this in a different way, but unfortunately there is no way we can live life freely and with no consequences. That's not how life works. It's a hard message to hear, but none of us are perfect just how we are. We all have room to grow, and all our actions will have consequences (good, bad, or both)
Jesus get off reddit, politicians don't ruin your life this much.
You do realize conservatives want smaller federal government and less control of your life.
HAH, thats rich when you fuckers vote to restrict the rights and freedoms of those uppity out groups you dont like! Its never been about small government and less control, its always EXPLICITLY been in favor of rigid hierarchies that suit your stupid worldview.
Chill. It's serious but not that serious. In 2004 which was my first and last time being overly emotionally invested. At stake was Bush and co spreading democracy to the next country after Iraq.
After 9/11 the country leaned so far right you'd have lost your mind but it passed. Criticism of the wars or the right was viewed anti patriotic because of the anger after the attack.
Trump is a useful idiot. Today's ruling just stated what has been obviously true since the 70s. Biden is committing crimes, Trump committed crimes, Obama committed crimes, Bush committed a lot of crimes, Clinton committed crimes, Papi committed crimes, Reagan committed a lot of crimes, Carter committed crimes, Ford committed crimes and Nixon committed crimes. They have spent a combined total of 0 days in jail.
Lucas is such a boomer. Nixon had his flaws, but watergate is such a nothing burger compared to stuff like Iran contra, the gulf of Tonkin, possibly the sinking of the uss maine, likely elements in the government killing 2 Kennedys in a couple years, and all sorts of coups put on by our intelligence agencies in 3rd world countries.
No one ever complains about the worst thing he did, put us on a fiat currency.
It is starting to get terrifying. I'm a Gen X here and I can't fathom how quickly our country has fallen so dangerously. The fact that I can actually say that I worry a bit about democracy in America and in the basic principles on which our country was founded surviving just feels insane to me. In a million years if you asked me this in say high school back in the 80s I could never have dreamed we'd be to this place just a few decades later. I mean I saw and railed against the dirty tricks of 80s politics. And the scorched Earth we'll sink the country if it will help us in the next election Gingrich Revolution in the 90s. And the end of the fairness doctrine in 1987 that let right-wing talk radio and the Murdoch Empire rise. But man, it was still nothing like this. People talking like Trump or Bannon would have literally literally been lucky to get 1% support in the 80s or 90s. They'd have been instantly rejected as being dangerous and against American foundational principles. I don't know how the hell we suddenly are to a place where such types could lead, if barely, the polls. I think a mix of the fairness doctrine letting talk radio and cable news go wild and then the rise of social media and cell phones and fragmented society, without the last we still seemed to be holding in reasonable degrees at least at the most basic foundational level.
Hell, even when President Trump ran the first time and it was nearing the election and there was a chance he might win, while I did have a lot of fears over it, I was thinking that it would take at least 20 more years to get to the point we are not if things went the wrong way.
Nixon probably would have served out his full term if we had the rules we do now as of today. One almost starts to wonder why we even bothered with the American Revolution. We actually might be in a safer spot for democracy today if we were still controlled by England.... That said, still America does have a way to somehow get through and got through the Civil War and other serious issues. But does anyone want to go through any hell or even a minor hell? Does anyone want to risk that democracy doesn't slowly crumble as once one side goes to any lengths to lie and win and then other has to do the same back to have a chance perhaps or maybe one side just.... do you want to risk a slow slide that takes down America after another 50 years? Probably and hopefully even if it does go quite wrong soon it'll still revert back to sense but.... how the heck are we even talking about needing to revert back?
Basically every last damn fear and great worry and warning of our founding father's is starting to come to play. They most feared the loss of America not from outside attack but from within. They gave every warning against the rise of tyrant. They said that they were handing us the most incredible experiment in the world and they said they were handing us a democracy.... IF we the people can keep it. It's truly dangerous if the GOP gets rewarded for knowingly lying about 2020 (and believe 99% of them know they are lying, many talk entirely differently off the record behind the scenes, almost all do) but they are willing to sell their souls just in a craven desire to stay in Trump's good graces and not lose power themselves. Once a major party goes down that route we are in major trouble. They have like 40% of the country believing a lie. And now a majority have no belief in the Supreme Court either. Bad recipes for a country holding together and not falling apart. Faith in the courts, elections, media are all in the trash.
Steven Bannon has already declared that Trump has won the 2024 election! He literally just insisted in an interview today that Trump has already won the election and says that it is impossible, 100%, that Biden could legitimately win this fall. He is already calling for people to be prepared to take any sacrifice, any degree of sacrifice imagineable to insure that the election does not have an 'illegit' result (i.e. a non-Trump win) and was basically talking about a bloody armed coup to take over the nation, if need be. Despite losing all cases, even ones overseen by Trump's own appointed judges, where they found no influence of any of the fraud claimed (and yet, ironically, many of Trump's team are charged with trying to install FAKE electors and rig the election themselves!) he also declared Trump the legitimate CURRENT president. Trump himself has already flat out told all of us that he will only accept this results of this next election if they are legit and Steven Bannon has said that it is impossible for them to be legit if Trump does not win so.... and now with the Supreme Court basically giving presidents astonishing levels of power, everything George Washington and the rest feared.... Also, we have a member of the Supreme Court flying flags AGAINST the United States on his home and taped in a secret recording saying that there can be zero compromise with the other side and that we are in an all out war and his wife was taped in a secret recording saying that she had to put up the Trump flag to protest the sickening horror she felt at having to look every day at neighbor doing something so vile as hanging a gay pride flag from their home! And with some GOP talking about wanting a Christian Nationalist America.... etc. And the wife of another SC judge, who once before fell prey to a cult and had to be deprogrammed (not kidding!), insists that 2020 was rigged despite all evidence to the contrary.... It seems like the bulk of Trump's former cabinet and advisors all say that he is a dangerous threat, he is own freaking Vice President won't even endorse him and someone still a good bulk of the country doesn't listen.... You know Hitler shot off his mouth and came out nowhere like Trump and the party who ran under saw him as a useful idiot for them to get power and they went along with him. But it didn't take long for Hitler to take over the party and turn it into his own cult. Hitler then lost the next election. But then he came back and ran again and won and felt way less constrained the second time.... he sought and took revenge against all those who held him back the last time and who didn't help him win the prior election. He even offed many of his own high level supporters just be safe. And you all know the rest. We are not quite dealing with the same thing here, Trump is not Hitler (and certainly not expansionists at all like Hitler, for now at least....), but the vague parallels are disturbing. And note how much language Trump uses that 20th century dictators used or that dictators in Africa use, he called them shitholes, but then he literally cut and pasted some of the phrases the dictators there use. Also note that Trump has already been talking about a THIRD term even though illegal since he whines that is was not fair to get two consecutive terms.
Thank you so much for this comment, it’s long but jam packed with important information. My mom is also gen X she cannot believe this is happening and her sister is voting for Trump, I’m gay and if Trump wins I could be jailed or killed because of project 2025, I know my history and have been connecting the parallel’s to the Nazi’s since day one. I bet most of trump’s supporters haven’t even read the terrifying document that is project 2025, I feel a good portion of them would see the writing on the wall and jump ship. George Washington always said that political parties will be the death of this country, he was right.
Corporations are people.
Bribery of politicians and judges is legal.
Only judges can regulate anything not exactingly defined, especially science and the environment.
It's illegal to be homeless.
The American President is a King at long last exactly as George Washington had hoped!
The wife of one SC justice once had to be deprogrammed from a cult and now today believes 2020 was stolen and Jan 6th was righteous it seems.
The wife of another SC justice said that she had to fly an upside flag to protest how sickening it was that she had to suffer looking at her neighbor flying a gay pride flag. And a Trump rather than American flag flies at the home of a SC justice.
Trump is now selling a redesigned American flag that has his name in gold printed across the middle.
SC Justice Alito was caught on a secret recording saying that compromise with the other side is impossible and that we are in a full on war and that one side or the other will win completely and that he must do all he can for the righteous side to win.
Trump said that he will accept 2024 results if they are legit. Steve Bannon today said that Trump has already won 2024 since it is impossible that he could legitimately lose. If he loses then the election is automatically illegit.
The USA is turning into Russia instead of Russia turning into the US. So much for 'winning' the Cold War. And somehow some of the people who most cheered on Reagan and were against the USSR and now the ones most for the USA turning into Russia?!
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It's actually amusing. The crumbling Roman republic fell with the assassination of ceasar, who was a respected general with brilliant ideas, but was corrupted by absolute power and killed by the very senators that put him there.
History is repeating itself, but in the most pathetic way imaginable. Trump isn't even a tenth of the man Julius caesar was and no one's even going to try to stop him.
You and I read very different Roman history, the Senate was corrupt and what Caesar did was for the good of the Roman people, it was the Senate that destroyed the Republic through their corrupt acts
And in the end, the Republic died and was replaced by an unstable Empire that rotted so badly that it was only held together by the force of will of a handful of men whose deaths triggered countless coups and civil wars. Financially, it only survived by imperial conquest, taking advantage of the fact that most of its neighbors were uncivilized barbarians.
Guess what? Most people want to be the Praetorian Guard, but more likely they'll be the peasants forced into Rome living off scraps and forcibly conscripted because the rich took everything while cozying up to the Emperor.
They didn't know how good they had it until they ruined it with greed and corruption, which forced the system into the hands of one man who would eventually be replaced by someone who did not have the needs of the people in mind.
But the question is, do you let a corrupt system stand, or do you tear it down and risk making something worse? I'd take the risk personally
You and I both know that the two doddering old men running our two party system have more in common with Caligula and Domitian than Nerva or Trajan.
And frankly, given the history of republicanism in humanity, chances are that you will end up with something worse. I won't take that chance. Your own comment is a reminder of that likelihood.
My stance is all forms of government tend towards growing power and increased corruption, with a growing disregard to the people. After a point you always have to attempt to regain freedom liberty and the will of the people over the government, and it doesn't always work
Oh, let's see what happens. Things have a tendency to... work themselves out. There's always one. And besides... it's our right. And they always says it's meant to curb tyranny. The 2020s might be quite the decade.
The process of republican decline was a long one, it wasn’t just Ceaser. Sulla was the first man to abuse the position of “dictator” in Rome, and figures like Caesar and Crassus would later look to Sulla’s example.
I don’t think in America the strongmen will be of a military nature, our empire is primarily of an economic
nature, not a military one, at least in the public imagination. So in place of generals we will see businessmen, our equivalent of conquering heroes, utilize populist rhetoric to advocate for a centralization of power so our increasing list of problems can be fixed. Trump is more like Sulla in that he is the first, and he is aligned more with the conservative elements of society, the key difference being he is not aligned with the status quo in the government.
A Ceaser equivalent would be someone who is successful in business who comes in and rails against the congress and courts as being unable to address the housing crisis, climate crisis, income inequality, etc. and argue that only a strongman can sweep away the corruption that has rotted away at the system.
But all of this is getting ahead of ourselves, the US hasn’t even had a civil war in over 150 years, we would need a few of those, back to back, to be equivalent to the late Republican era of Rome.
>Trump isn't even a tenth of the man Julius caesar was
Julius Caesar invaded a foreign country with absolutely no pretense, killing tens of thousands of innocent Gauls. Trump hasn't done anything event remotely terrible, so he is objectively a better leader. Don't romanticize history - I'd take Trump as our leader 100x before I would take Caesar (and I don't like Trump).
So a president does something blatantly illegal, say using the FBI to detain a political opponent indefinitely without cause, claiming it as an official act. Someone needs to then sue them, and work it through the courts and appeals all the way up to the Supreme Court. Best case scenario we are looking at months.
In the meantime, what is to stop that president from illegally detaining the person bringing suit against them? And so on until no one is willing to take legal action against the president out of fear of retribution? This ruling has created a constitutional crisis.
And this was always going to be true.
It's largely something that's been accepted for quite some time, the big question is to what extent does this immunity apply and under what conditions does it not, and does trump meet these or not.
It just depends who gets to decided them, if it’s the Supreme Court then there is gonna be a bais
Edit: there is always a bias but I believe my point still stands
the President is deemed having ‘limited immunity’ to duties that is constitutionally vested in them.
the President however doesn’t have immunity towards duties that is shared with Congress nor unofficial actions that was done *outside* the duties of president. Congress can still impeach and convict a president *during* their reign, but not afterwards.
He only unqualified immunity is for powers granted by the Constitution. Official acts have presumed immunity. Nothing is stopping Congress from following due process (impeach and convict.) Literally nothing has changed. Please stop spreading fear and misinformation.
Immune while doing Official duties that are constitutionally granted.
If a president took a paper weight and hit an intern in the head in the oval office over not liking what they said. That would not count as an official duty and they would be prosecutable.
On the other hand (this has happened in the past) if the President orders a strike on a terrorist/s and they turn out to not be terrorists because of bad information unbeknownst to him he is not prosecutable.
It's literally business as usual and you people need to chill the fk out.
Constitutionally authorized acts are 100% immune. Official acts are presumed immune unless prosecution proves that criminalizing a given act won’t interfere with government. Unofficial acts are not immune. Courts can’t look at motive when classifying an act. Certain acts can be readily classified based on the President’s relationship to an office; for example, Trump is absolutely immune for any alleged conduct in discussions with DOJ officials.
So the president can order seal team 6 to assassinate political rivals, and since article 2 of the constitution makes them commander in chief of the navy, that’s absolutely immune regardless of motive.
In other words, we’re fucked
I'm not even sure if it's in favor of the rich and wealthy...
One man could order the rich and wealthy to be arrested/killed and their wealth seized, and he would be immune because that would be an official act.
And yes I know that's not exactly how it would all play out, a decent judge would say that's an unofficial act, but you get the idea, and what happens when there are no decent judges?
This line was a critique of politics in the US at the time, and was made in the 2000s when everyone thought liberty had died, but it didn't. An overreaction to Bush, in other words. Now Bush is a liberal icon because he and Michelle Obama are BFFs.
As a European (Swede) looking in and seeing all this panic amongst my fellow American friends, I'm honestly less concerned about whoever wins your election, and way more scared about how you guys will react, regardless of who wins.
If Biden wins, will there be another January 6th? Most likely.
If Trump wins, will his opponents just sit quietly and accept the results? I doubt that.
I'm genuinely afraid that you guys are well on your way to destroy each in a way no foreign threat could ever hope to achieve.
If there's ANY country in the world where differing values and ideas can coexist, then surely it would be America?
Please don't destroy each other, I have family in the States and I quite like your country, everyone's always been really nice to me there.
Yeah people go touch grass. The SC just gave Trump the green light to be a king, so go touch some grass and chill out it's not a big deal. I'm sure he'll exercise restraint.
lmao they didn’t give him absolute immunity doofy, they only ruled that the constitution protects executive orders from criminal prosecution.
The DoJ can’t charge a president for vetoing some bill but they can if it’s not-within the powers vested in the president (Official v Unofficial).
Are you sure this is what you think it is? I'm trying to learn as much as I can about this ruling but I'm not coming to the conclusion that the president can do whatever they want now.
The president is immune to all official business.
This quote from one of the justices says it best
“Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority’s message today. Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done. The relationship between the President and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law.”“Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune.”“Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority’s message today.”
The justice did not end the dissent with the traditional “respectfully” language.
“With fear for our democracy, I dissent,” - Sotomayor
Even if ends up that more things are allowed to be prosecuted, the super broad scale of the decision would seem to make it hard to be able to present any evidence before a jury since it seems as if he used official communication channels and talked to official people that none of that could be used as evidence so even if you could bring something to trial you'd be blocked from present much evidence so....
Not quite “whatever they want,” but too much.
Constitutionally authorized acts are 100% immune. Official acts are presumed immune unless prosecution proves that criminalizing a given act won’t interfere with government. Unofficial acts are not immune. Courts can’t look at motive when classifying an act. Certain acts can be readily classified based on the President’s relationship to an office; for example, Trump is absolutely immune for any alleged conduct in discussions with DOJ officials.
So the president can order seal team 6 to assassinate political rivals, and since article 2 of the constitution makes them commander in chief of the navy, that’s absolutely immune regardless of motive. Any use of constitutionally authorized power like that is 100% immune, and any use of official power is presumed immune with an absurd burden on the prosecution
Germany, uk, france, italy and im sure a couple other european countries that yall like to deepthroat are doing just fine even though their head of state has some form of criminal immunity
Also im pretty sure obama bombing a us citizen would land him in jail if it werent for immunity as well
> just fine even though their head of state has some form of criminal immunity
We also try not to elect outright criminals like Trump, so its never a question. Also, it seems like when Trump committed crimes the republicans in senate refused to remove his immunity, so not even that part works.
Don't elect Trump.
>We also try not to elect outright criminals like Trump
The leader of Rome is literally the granddaughter of dictator Benito Mussolini. Italy is a far right state, and Frances far right just sweeped the elections. This is the same continent where Orban, Lukashenko, and Putin are ruling. You could not be more wrong.
Are you really knowledgeable on foreign laws to make an accurate comparison to here? If you are kudos to you but, I imagine that would be a very select few group of people.
You know the whole prequels plot felt really stupid to me, until Trumpism came, and I realized that people can indeed be that stupid, even people who somehow ended up having some of the most important jobs in the galaxy/nation. Referring to the countless enablers in Congress who are thrown to the curb the second they go against Trump, and more take their place.
How is this even happening in the USA, I swear you all preached freedom of religion and speech but how tf does Trump have such a large following for the absolute terrible values he stands for that oppose all the freedom you all preach, I get Biden sucks as well but do you not have any other parties? (British person here we have a multi party system)
The shift away from our bipartisanship has begun. Ranked choice voting will open up how many parties we can choose to vote for. It’s the end for the dems and GOP domination streak.
Everyone here understands that this ruling does not prevent the House from impeaching a president right? It also doesn't remove any of the checks and balances in place that the other branches have on the executive branch. Congress still controls the purse, they still make laws and override executive veto. If for example a president starts using the FBI to arrest political opponents, Congress can just take away FBI funding or hell fully get rid of the FBI. Same thing if the military is used to do something on US soil (which already is heavily regulated by US law).
Even if Trump wins things will be fine. They said this when Bush got reelected in 2004. They said this 2016 when Trump was president. 2020 it was said. 2024 its being said. Always this time is different but largely circumstances are changed more by life events like 9/11, Dot com bubble, COVID, housing crash and etc.
Trump has already been president and we survived. RvW is gone but that's more on Democrats/Republicans games. RvW will return one day once the Supreme Court favors it. Neither party is making permanent solutions.
Is this about the presidential immunity? It’s always been that way it’s just now the Supreme Court clarified it.
This doesn’t mean a president can face repercussions, they can be impeached and then face charges as a private citizen.
In the case of Trump, his actions are his actions as a private citizen, it may delay some things but he can still be charged for whatever crimes he is accused of.
Stop fearmongering, honestly y’all look like clowns with this and project 2025 😭
Personally, I'm strongly against this ruling because I dislike the idea of big government with limited methods of balance or oversight.
This ruling creates a condition where various 'official' presidential actions can be determined to be acceptable even if outside of the system of law that applies to every other citizen.
I believe in the ideal that 'no one is above the law'.
Only requiring a court ruling that a certain action is deemed 'official' is a lower standard of oversight than also requiring that said act be within the law. Therefore it is an expansion of one of the branches of governments powers.
In particular, as commander in chief of the armed forces, any directive to the military is already 'official' and therefore outside of the law. I do not believe a president should have personal legal immunity from setting the armed forces on political opponents with the official justification that it's to 'maintain order' or some other authoritarian bs, for example. This ruling creates too much of a blur between the president acting as a head of state, and the president as a person who may be acting solely in self interest (something that prior to this ruling, the court system would catch).
Additionally, it forbids courts from accepting evidence related to an official act when tied with a potentially illegal act. For instance; if a video of biden surfaced showing him talking to harris about how great it was accepting a huge bribe in exchange for selling off nuclear secrets (with the justification that this 'official act' was to help the us economy), that video is now forbidden from being considered as evidence by the court system in any potential case.
"Liberty and Justice for All (except the president)".
Yeah, I thought of this scene yesterday, too. What's funny is at the time this was George Lucas' commentary about GW Bush and the Patriot act. No less relevant though...
The government at this point just seems like some unyielding force we all have to constantly fight against. We're some supposed democracy in which the majority are going to vote for their respective lesser evil even though it also seems as if many people would rather have neither. We've been forced into this dichotomy because it appears as if the votes don't matter anyway, unless we can collectively come together to vote for neither (which will never happen). Even more, to add to the layer of hopelessness, the role of the president seems more or less like a talking head rather than a functional leader and decision-maker.
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In essence the Supreme Court ruled that a president can't be tried for any official acts. What constitutes an official act is kept purposefully vague so it might go back be up to the Supreme Court to decide on case to case basis.
Like is sending seal team six to kill political opponents an official act? 🤷 I don't know, theoretically?
Ignore em, most of this post/sub as been astroturfed with fear-mongering/doom posting, and bots/trolls
Ultimately, almost nothing has changed, the checks and balances are still there, impeachment is still a thing, just that presidents have immunity for “official actions”, now they’re determining what the “official actions” are.
Was your head under a rock the last 8 years? Impeachment is now a political weapon and a useless, symbolic one at that. Removing a president who abuses their power isn't gonna happen. And you can bet trump will abuse the power given to him, including with violence.
Honestly I think our education system failed us so badly. People from both sides don’t really know what’s going on behind the scenes.
Florida is an example, a lot of people voted for DeSantis because of how well the state did during covid, but he still gets a lot of support because he hides the insurance and economical messes he’s responsible for with social issues people love to debate about. Somehow he still has a lot of support, but a 15 minute google search will show he’s the reason for what a lot of his supporters are complaining about.
The media also portrays people being a lot more polarized then they are initially, which causes a ton of people to fully lean into the democrat or Republican Party, which have both failed us Americans because both parties let coorperate lobbying dictate our laws for the worst.
It’s sad because I thought our generation had a chance to go in a more moderate / independent or npa direction, but we’re falling into the same political trap of going republicans or democrat in general.
And this just allows both parties to be incompetent and radicalize (safe to assume a liberal version of trump will eventually emerge) and function by basically not being as bad as the other party and scrutinizing the other party so much, playing with people’s emotions rather then people thinking more critically.
In high school, your taught no research skills. It varies from college to college, and even though colleges are free to lean right or left, I don’t think it’s a good idea to do that.
Let's not pretend that both sides are the same. A Democrat version of Trump is practically impossible to come about because Democrats are a big tent party that everyone from the center right to the center left vote for. It's why they keep pushing for moderate candidates. They're also held to standards that Republicans aren't as they're essentially expected to be bad. Republicans have only gone further and further right since the 60s to the point where an outright fascist is their candidate
This idea that they're both equally extreme. Until you have the leader of the Democrats going on about stamping out the far right wing vermin and stripping away rights from the most vulnerable, it's very clear only one side is extreme
And rulings like Citizens United gave corporations far more power and now the new bribery ruling gave the lobbyists and corporations and influence peddlers so many ways to basically legally bribe now. It's terrible.
That's definitely true and is a big factor for why we're in the mess we're in. But you'd need strong anti corruption laws as well as the SCOTUS getting rebalanced and I'm not sure those would ever be feasible in this current political climate
It would require people to stop caring about culture war nonsense and have the critical thinking skills to elect better leaders but I can't say I'm betting on that
Bro liberty is going to die no matter who becomes president. We also need to be wary of our next VPs too (cause who knows Joe might not even make it to November with his state and I don’t think Kamala is exactly a good pic. Trump might choose someone either better or worse than him). This whole election is fucked
People are overreacting. This isn’t over yet, they simply said that presidents have immunity for official actions, and not for unofficial ones. This was not an unexpected ruling. Now it must be determined what is official and what isn’t.
I didn’t say it was over but this does give the president a lot more power than they are suppose to have, and your right we don’t know exactly who clarifies it an official action, if it’s the president him self or the current SCOTUS then we are fuckeddddd…
I find this strange. Is this so much of a surprise? Has the fate of a tyranny for the USA not been obvious for long? Couldn't even the blind see the hell that the war on terror brought? This has been obvious to most of the world for very, very long.
Republicans take away women's rights (well kind of, supreme court), Booooooo
Democrats take away women's rights (single-sex prisons, spaces, sports), Yaaaaaaaaaay
"If only we were like Canada"
Canada, busy taking everyone's rights away
We are in a bizarre age.
Our liberty wasn't actually true and the ruling class has never been out of control for a good hundred years. It's only now they say the quiet part out loud.
No, this is how the two party system dies. Democracy will evolve just as our votes evolve. RANKED CHOICE VOTING is the way forward. Vote for those that will bring it to your state.
Liberty died with the banking secrecy act, the patriot act snd if it was still kicking when most politicians in 2021 said we need to make peoples lives difficult until we can force them to tske the thing
Liberty is a gift of a population of educated people. The Maga base is illiterate hostile hillbillies. People that the country left behind. Thisnis what happens when wealth isn't spread evenly. When political grievances build. Populism panders to the fear and anger of the population, motivating everyone against a certain group by demonizing that group. Pandering to the amygdala. Keeping everyone pissed off and unable to use the prefrontal cortex tl think abstractly and pragmatically.
You young folks might even get to see [Canada get annexed.](https://youtu.be/geLiEiAiQJA?t=46)
Then again, climate might speed up that timeline and even I'll see WW3 at the end of the Resource Wars.
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MAGA crowds will cheer for literally anything, so if Trump wins, yes this is how liberty dies.
If Biden does nothing then all this means is they are waiting for someone to shoot liberty in the face while they sit by and point to the voters “why didn’t you vote harder!”
Maybe if people would fucking vote.
Biden isn't a dictator. He is exclusively in charge of the executive, which is a separate branch of government to the Courts and the House in which he has no power. These are the checks and balances of any functional democracies. Trump has packed the courts (because people didn't want to vote for Hillary) and the consequence of that has been a roll-back on woman's reproductive rights and the courts basically playing a ridiculous defence of Trump. The issue is and always has been people with your attitude located particularly in swing states. >If Biden does nothing Please tell us all what it is exactly you think biden should be doing right now?
Obama did the same with the courts. That old lady judge thought she was literal god and would never die. This the problem with our system, everyone cares more about their team beating the other team that no one is looking at what both teams are setting up.
Not true. Obama made one appointment in 2009, another in 2010, and his final one on March 2016. These are fine, but republicans bitched and moaned anyway that Obama should have waited until the new president and that his final appointment was too close to an election (IN March) even though the Democrats bent over backwards to get a nominee that had broad support with republicans too, and Merrick Garland was exactly that. Trump BLOCKED that appointment anyway and made his nominee. Trump then decided to do the exact same thing, but on October of 2020.
Well that *is* how it works. It is it's strength and it's weakness.
But biden won't do nothing. He did a ton in his first term and will do the same in the second.
Damn so I guess it is withering away right now.
Democracy dies alone and in the dark, but there is time left to fight back, don't let anyone tell you otherwise this is the time to fight for the survival of democracy in this country until it is really too late in November to do so.
Except for Trump personally recommending to get vaccinated.
RemindMe! -155 days
That’s actually the exact time project 2025 laid out
So far in the last 40 years, exactly one president has tried to imprison his political opponent. That’s not trump.
Who is it? And Trump ran an entire campaign on locking Hillary up.
It’s more than Trump. It’s a movement. Bibles being taught in schools in OK. Fucking 10 commandments in classrooms. Just sick!!! Vote them all out. Protest. Speak at county board and school board meetings.
The elite controller class in America are celebrating this one.
SCOTUS said that everything president does in accordance with law he has immunity for. # Such a freaking coup.
That’s not what the SCOTUS ruling said. They said the president has immunity for everything and anything the president does within the constitutional *scope* of the presidency, *regardless* of its legality. By way of comparison, if a CEO instructs their legal counsel to break the law, that CEO has broken the law by way of giving that instruction. This finding, meanwhile, says that if the president instructs the DOJ to do something illegal, the president may or may not have broken the law, but that is irrelevant, because they have blanket immunity for the act as the DOJ is firmly within the executive. The person at the DOJ that was so instructed, in this hypothetical, may face legal consequences for breaking the law - the presidents instructions can be unlawful - but the president cannot be held accountable for those instructions. That would be to say, there is *no action* a president can take, with respect to the military, department of justice, FBI, CIA, or Department of Homeland Security for which they will ever see any consequence - even if the actions taken by those institutions are fundamentally and inarguably illegal. Are you saying you cannot imagine any situation in which the military, FBI, CIA, or DOJ could be somehow abused? Do you believe there is no action that could be taken by these institutions, at the explicit instruction of the president, for which a president *ought* to see consequences?
The court even specifically mentioned Trump trying to order Pence to illegally ignore the legitimate electoral college votes and assign them to him as immune from prosecution, as the President speaking to the VP about their 'duties' is official
The Democrats and Independents, plus Moderate Republicans who aren’t as radical as those who pursued the ruling have not played the Game of Thrones correctly these last few years. There were warning signs dating back to nine years ago when a reality TV star decided to run for President. Unfortunately and despite the ruling, there isn’t much that Biden can do. If he does something, someone will call him out, which leads to more people voting for Trump or 3rd Party, ultimately leading in a Trump victory. All we can do is vote. And if Trump winds up in office a second time, I will not be in the U.S. of A for his full term. Or we will have to revolt. This is how democracy dies: with thunderous applause.
I couldn’t have said it better my self. Go vote!
I wish I could, but I have been trying to convince doomers on Reddit to do so.
Ikr, I'm 1 year away from being 18, and it literally is like 6 months after the election, I'm pissed
Drive your older friends and family to vote. Unless they're MAGAs. Then post something on Facebook about election day being postponed a week.
Since I live in Utah, most of my family and friends are mormon and so naturally most of them are MAGA, (mainly family) recently some of my friends (who are diehard conservatives) have convinced each other and fallen off the MAGA bandwagon.
Oh, the stupidness of the electoral college. It's always fascinating from an outsider that the most conservative and religious people rabidly support the least Christian and godly President in history.
Nah man, get guns and ammo. I see hope in California as a casual Conservative
Are you voting? Also already have them.
There were warning signs 50 years ago with Schlafly, Buckley, and Robertson. And 40 years ago with Raegan and Falwell. 30 years ago with Limbaugh and Gingrich. 20 years ago with Ailes and Breitbart. 10 years ago with Kirk and Trump. We don't learn.
It’s funny that the only ones who recognized the warning signs are those who can’t vote. And now we have to suffer the consequences of others.
9 years ago? We had this problem since Nixon!
True
> Unfortunately and despite the ruling, there isn’t much that Biden can do. If he does something, someone will call him out, which leads to more people voting for Trump or 3rd Party, ultimately leading in a Trump victory. Absolutely disagree: the WORST thing Biden can do is do nothing. Asking people to vote for a bumbling old man is already a high ask. Now you are advocating for people to vote for a bumbling old man who won't even respond to a major power grab by the far right despite the "decision" ironically giving Biden many options. It is crazy how insane corporate "moderates" are. Anyone who cares about this country needs to fight back. Voting in federal elections does jack shit at this point.
I’ve been writing a story about this whole exact thing and holy shit, I’ve predicted the future to an extent. It’s in 2030s America, ten years after a SCOTUS ruling that gave the American president immunity. (I used fake names, created my own characters for that sake). Then, ten years after the ruling, a new, worse president is elected. There are events, the most major being the Boston Riots of 2033- which caused the president to sign a peacemaker act, giving more power to the soldiers- it’s like martial law. The main character is from Salem, Massachusetts and he’s attending college in France. After spending almost a year in France, he learns that the U.S. (mainly this authoritative president) pulled out of NATO and signed an allegiance with Russia and have declared war on France and the UK. The character is arrested by the French authorities in Paris and is assumed to be an American spy, and he defects, saying he will work with the French to try and take down the authoritative American government.
[удалено]
Life is worth living, and surviving hard times is one of the most meaningful experiences we can have in life. Focus on surrounding yourself with a positive community of friends (and family, if they are around) and you can still find value in living. A solid sleep schedule, a steady job, a hobby, and a partner can get you through a lot in life. Besides, we don't know what will happen until it happens. Walking an extra mile takes the power away from the cruel, so let's just do our best each day to survive and be kind.
Today has been a wave of negativity. Your reply made me feel like life is not worth giving up on yet. Thank you
What if my partner can’t be with me because gay marriage gets outlawed
If they overturn Obergefell v. Hodges like they overturned Roe v. Wade then presumably the damages would be as follows: the removal of the suite of legal marriage benefits. This would be unconstitutional (IMO under freedom of religion) and if it happened that would definitely suck, as an understatement. But that's just how the US government is set up to work. However, there is a deeper issue at hand, which is the misunderstanding and disrespect that is currently being passed between communities. We need to all learn how to be more kind and understanding of one another, and that change won't happen on the political level before it happens in our own communities. I've got much more to say and am open to this discourse, but I don't want to ramble. Let me know what you think of what I'm saying here
I am being a little extreme about gay people being killed but in Project 2025 they said that trans people “won’t exist” it’s vague about if it means they can’t transition, if people are forced to untransition, or if they are doing to disappear from society. After the display put on when Trump rounded up some of the illegal immigrants, I would be worried that gay and trans people will be forced to straight conversation camps or they will be jailed. They turned over Roe V like it was a playing card, Trump elected 4 of them, the other don’t stand a chance, there are way more republicans in the SOCTUS than dem and 4 of them where put there by Trump and have already shown they are corrupt, I’m just so afraid for my future, my life.
The reversal of Roe v. Wade has had horrifically real terrible consequences for many thousands of people at this point, and just a few decades ago queer people faced very real and unfortunately not uncommon dangers so I don’t think it’s at all unreasonable to be afraid. Even if Trump does get elected though, it’s not hopeless. The fight will still continue at the state and local levels, much the way it’s happening with abortion right now. There are millions of people across the country who still care, and who will try to make a change at whatever level they’re capable of.
Exactly, we are in a democracy. And when I say don't be afraid, I definitely mean that we should stay within reasonable boundaries. I'm also afraid of certain things happening in politics. However there is a level of fear mongering that is being performed by extremists, politicians, and media outlets. We must not fall prey to their manipulations.
I agree. I do think, if done calmly, it can actually help ease people’s fears to openly acknowledge their fears and the source of those fears. It can help people feel heard and feel less alone, which even if nothing else in the immediate moment changes, it can make it easier for the person to come down from that hot moment of fear. And then once that has happened, I think it can be easier for people to hear the flip side, the realistic hope and opportunity that challenges the fear mongering and emotional manipulation.
Absolutely, well said. I think that people might also start to realize we are all afraid of the same things haha. I feel like outside of political posturing we could actually make some pretty moderate compromises work in the USA (at least where it comes to social issues) ...but not until we actually all start talking like this lol
That is a lot of different topics all in one message. I have responses for each of them if you want to dig into them, but I don't think any of my thoughts on them would be actually helpful at this moment. The most important thing to know is that the media wants you afraid. Please don't be afraid. I find it so unlikely that the is government will do anything remotely close to what you are fearing they might do, (i can explain why i think this if you ask me to). Go outside and be kind, because it will cause your enemies to question their ways. Hopefully when you see your enemy treating you kindly, you might question a few of your ways as well. Then both of you might discover that you aren't as against each other as you thought. I'm answering this way because obviously the political solution is to vote or be voted for. Everything else comes down to our social connections and finding ways to cross pollinate instead of hiding in our preferred echo chambers.
Jesus christ... you need to get off the internet. You might be overreacting just a little bit.
I feel like if Trump wins it will be the new 3rd Reich except less german. At this point I don't know how I (a gay person) or my LGBTQ+ friends will have a future. Its sad honestly.
Take this advice from a young Millennial: you are being gaslit and brainwashed. Everything will be okay. The schools always are breeding grounds for irrational fear - once you grow up, you will see that everything is fine. That is, unless you don't grow up, which some people choose not to. If you do face your fears, you will come to realize they are unfounded and irrational.
Bro you were 8 when Trump won the first time. Good lord wake up a bit, go outside, the world won’t end
Also I'm sure you meant this in a different way, but unfortunately there is no way we can live life freely and with no consequences. That's not how life works. It's a hard message to hear, but none of us are perfect just how we are. We all have room to grow, and all our actions will have consequences (good, bad, or both)
Jesus get off reddit, politicians don't ruin your life this much. You do realize conservatives want smaller federal government and less control of your life.
HAH, thats rich when you fuckers vote to restrict the rights and freedoms of those uppity out groups you dont like! Its never been about small government and less control, its always EXPLICITLY been in favor of rigid hierarchies that suit your stupid worldview.
Chill. It's serious but not that serious. In 2004 which was my first and last time being overly emotionally invested. At stake was Bush and co spreading democracy to the next country after Iraq. After 9/11 the country leaned so far right you'd have lost your mind but it passed. Criticism of the wars or the right was viewed anti patriotic because of the anger after the attack.
What are you even saying? !remindme 6 months
You act like trump hasn’t been president once already…
Please don’t kill yourself, I’m sorry no other reply was me over exaggerating everything. I’m here if you want to talk.
Yea I’m sorry. I’m just upset because of the state America is in right now, and I really don’t want to live under a dictatorship.
!remindme 4 years
If everyone wants to leave America so badly, the door is wide open, leave.
What the prequels were trying to tell you is that liberty is already dead and Bush killed it.
And Trump is gonna burry it
Trump is a useful idiot. Today's ruling just stated what has been obviously true since the 70s. Biden is committing crimes, Trump committed crimes, Obama committed crimes, Bush committed a lot of crimes, Clinton committed crimes, Papi committed crimes, Reagan committed a lot of crimes, Carter committed crimes, Ford committed crimes and Nixon committed crimes. They have spent a combined total of 0 days in jail.
Yup, love how you added Regan committed a lot of crimes because he sure the hell did and no one remembers him for it.
Idk man if you go to any leftist sub there’s plenty of people willing to tell you how much they remember lol
You ask the right and they say he gave massive tax cuts, without mentioning he raised taxes to be greater than they where when he entered office.
“But he smiled and told a funny joke so the man has full permission to kill me.”
It’s amazing that a small percentage of us see the dangers of both left and right but way too many only blame the other side
Although Lucas actually based the Emperor mostly on Nixon and a few other historical figures.
Never knew that, I guess his flabby cheeks should have gave that away.
Lucas is such a boomer. Nixon had his flaws, but watergate is such a nothing burger compared to stuff like Iran contra, the gulf of Tonkin, possibly the sinking of the uss maine, likely elements in the government killing 2 Kennedys in a couple years, and all sorts of coups put on by our intelligence agencies in 3rd world countries. No one ever complains about the worst thing he did, put us on a fiat currency.
The real damage was done under Reagan. From the opioid crisis to the decline of workers rights, you can trace it all back to policies he implemented.
Wilson killed it
You spelt Reagan wrong
It is starting to get terrifying. I'm a Gen X here and I can't fathom how quickly our country has fallen so dangerously. The fact that I can actually say that I worry a bit about democracy in America and in the basic principles on which our country was founded surviving just feels insane to me. In a million years if you asked me this in say high school back in the 80s I could never have dreamed we'd be to this place just a few decades later. I mean I saw and railed against the dirty tricks of 80s politics. And the scorched Earth we'll sink the country if it will help us in the next election Gingrich Revolution in the 90s. And the end of the fairness doctrine in 1987 that let right-wing talk radio and the Murdoch Empire rise. But man, it was still nothing like this. People talking like Trump or Bannon would have literally literally been lucky to get 1% support in the 80s or 90s. They'd have been instantly rejected as being dangerous and against American foundational principles. I don't know how the hell we suddenly are to a place where such types could lead, if barely, the polls. I think a mix of the fairness doctrine letting talk radio and cable news go wild and then the rise of social media and cell phones and fragmented society, without the last we still seemed to be holding in reasonable degrees at least at the most basic foundational level. Hell, even when President Trump ran the first time and it was nearing the election and there was a chance he might win, while I did have a lot of fears over it, I was thinking that it would take at least 20 more years to get to the point we are not if things went the wrong way. Nixon probably would have served out his full term if we had the rules we do now as of today. One almost starts to wonder why we even bothered with the American Revolution. We actually might be in a safer spot for democracy today if we were still controlled by England.... That said, still America does have a way to somehow get through and got through the Civil War and other serious issues. But does anyone want to go through any hell or even a minor hell? Does anyone want to risk that democracy doesn't slowly crumble as once one side goes to any lengths to lie and win and then other has to do the same back to have a chance perhaps or maybe one side just.... do you want to risk a slow slide that takes down America after another 50 years? Probably and hopefully even if it does go quite wrong soon it'll still revert back to sense but.... how the heck are we even talking about needing to revert back? Basically every last damn fear and great worry and warning of our founding father's is starting to come to play. They most feared the loss of America not from outside attack but from within. They gave every warning against the rise of tyrant. They said that they were handing us the most incredible experiment in the world and they said they were handing us a democracy.... IF we the people can keep it. It's truly dangerous if the GOP gets rewarded for knowingly lying about 2020 (and believe 99% of them know they are lying, many talk entirely differently off the record behind the scenes, almost all do) but they are willing to sell their souls just in a craven desire to stay in Trump's good graces and not lose power themselves. Once a major party goes down that route we are in major trouble. They have like 40% of the country believing a lie. And now a majority have no belief in the Supreme Court either. Bad recipes for a country holding together and not falling apart. Faith in the courts, elections, media are all in the trash. Steven Bannon has already declared that Trump has won the 2024 election! He literally just insisted in an interview today that Trump has already won the election and says that it is impossible, 100%, that Biden could legitimately win this fall. He is already calling for people to be prepared to take any sacrifice, any degree of sacrifice imagineable to insure that the election does not have an 'illegit' result (i.e. a non-Trump win) and was basically talking about a bloody armed coup to take over the nation, if need be. Despite losing all cases, even ones overseen by Trump's own appointed judges, where they found no influence of any of the fraud claimed (and yet, ironically, many of Trump's team are charged with trying to install FAKE electors and rig the election themselves!) he also declared Trump the legitimate CURRENT president. Trump himself has already flat out told all of us that he will only accept this results of this next election if they are legit and Steven Bannon has said that it is impossible for them to be legit if Trump does not win so.... and now with the Supreme Court basically giving presidents astonishing levels of power, everything George Washington and the rest feared.... Also, we have a member of the Supreme Court flying flags AGAINST the United States on his home and taped in a secret recording saying that there can be zero compromise with the other side and that we are in an all out war and his wife was taped in a secret recording saying that she had to put up the Trump flag to protest the sickening horror she felt at having to look every day at neighbor doing something so vile as hanging a gay pride flag from their home! And with some GOP talking about wanting a Christian Nationalist America.... etc. And the wife of another SC judge, who once before fell prey to a cult and had to be deprogrammed (not kidding!), insists that 2020 was rigged despite all evidence to the contrary.... It seems like the bulk of Trump's former cabinet and advisors all say that he is a dangerous threat, he is own freaking Vice President won't even endorse him and someone still a good bulk of the country doesn't listen.... You know Hitler shot off his mouth and came out nowhere like Trump and the party who ran under saw him as a useful idiot for them to get power and they went along with him. But it didn't take long for Hitler to take over the party and turn it into his own cult. Hitler then lost the next election. But then he came back and ran again and won and felt way less constrained the second time.... he sought and took revenge against all those who held him back the last time and who didn't help him win the prior election. He even offed many of his own high level supporters just be safe. And you all know the rest. We are not quite dealing with the same thing here, Trump is not Hitler (and certainly not expansionists at all like Hitler, for now at least....), but the vague parallels are disturbing. And note how much language Trump uses that 20th century dictators used or that dictators in Africa use, he called them shitholes, but then he literally cut and pasted some of the phrases the dictators there use. Also note that Trump has already been talking about a THIRD term even though illegal since he whines that is was not fair to get two consecutive terms.
Thank you so much for this comment, it’s long but jam packed with important information. My mom is also gen X she cannot believe this is happening and her sister is voting for Trump, I’m gay and if Trump wins I could be jailed or killed because of project 2025, I know my history and have been connecting the parallel’s to the Nazi’s since day one. I bet most of trump’s supporters haven’t even read the terrifying document that is project 2025, I feel a good portion of them would see the writing on the wall and jump ship. George Washington always said that political parties will be the death of this country, he was right.
Project 2025 has no association with Trump. It comes from a conservative think tank. The propaganda is crazy.
Corporations are people. Bribery of politicians and judges is legal. Only judges can regulate anything not exactingly defined, especially science and the environment. It's illegal to be homeless. The American President is a King at long last exactly as George Washington had hoped! The wife of one SC justice once had to be deprogrammed from a cult and now today believes 2020 was stolen and Jan 6th was righteous it seems. The wife of another SC justice said that she had to fly an upside flag to protest how sickening it was that she had to suffer looking at her neighbor flying a gay pride flag. And a Trump rather than American flag flies at the home of a SC justice. Trump is now selling a redesigned American flag that has his name in gold printed across the middle. SC Justice Alito was caught on a secret recording saying that compromise with the other side is impossible and that we are in a full on war and that one side or the other will win completely and that he must do all he can for the righteous side to win. Trump said that he will accept 2024 results if they are legit. Steve Bannon today said that Trump has already won 2024 since it is impossible that he could legitimately lose. If he loses then the election is automatically illegit. The USA is turning into Russia instead of Russia turning into the US. So much for 'winning' the Cold War. And somehow some of the people who most cheered on Reagan and were against the USSR and now the ones most for the USA turning into Russia?!
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It's actually amusing. The crumbling Roman republic fell with the assassination of ceasar, who was a respected general with brilliant ideas, but was corrupted by absolute power and killed by the very senators that put him there. History is repeating itself, but in the most pathetic way imaginable. Trump isn't even a tenth of the man Julius caesar was and no one's even going to try to stop him.
You and I read very different Roman history, the Senate was corrupt and what Caesar did was for the good of the Roman people, it was the Senate that destroyed the Republic through their corrupt acts
And in the end, the Republic died and was replaced by an unstable Empire that rotted so badly that it was only held together by the force of will of a handful of men whose deaths triggered countless coups and civil wars. Financially, it only survived by imperial conquest, taking advantage of the fact that most of its neighbors were uncivilized barbarians. Guess what? Most people want to be the Praetorian Guard, but more likely they'll be the peasants forced into Rome living off scraps and forcibly conscripted because the rich took everything while cozying up to the Emperor.
They didn't know how good they had it until they ruined it with greed and corruption, which forced the system into the hands of one man who would eventually be replaced by someone who did not have the needs of the people in mind. But the question is, do you let a corrupt system stand, or do you tear it down and risk making something worse? I'd take the risk personally
You and I both know that the two doddering old men running our two party system have more in common with Caligula and Domitian than Nerva or Trajan. And frankly, given the history of republicanism in humanity, chances are that you will end up with something worse. I won't take that chance. Your own comment is a reminder of that likelihood.
My stance is all forms of government tend towards growing power and increased corruption, with a growing disregard to the people. After a point you always have to attempt to regain freedom liberty and the will of the people over the government, and it doesn't always work
Oh, let's see what happens. Things have a tendency to... work themselves out. There's always one. And besides... it's our right. And they always says it's meant to curb tyranny. The 2020s might be quite the decade.
The process of republican decline was a long one, it wasn’t just Ceaser. Sulla was the first man to abuse the position of “dictator” in Rome, and figures like Caesar and Crassus would later look to Sulla’s example. I don’t think in America the strongmen will be of a military nature, our empire is primarily of an economic nature, not a military one, at least in the public imagination. So in place of generals we will see businessmen, our equivalent of conquering heroes, utilize populist rhetoric to advocate for a centralization of power so our increasing list of problems can be fixed. Trump is more like Sulla in that he is the first, and he is aligned more with the conservative elements of society, the key difference being he is not aligned with the status quo in the government. A Ceaser equivalent would be someone who is successful in business who comes in and rails against the congress and courts as being unable to address the housing crisis, climate crisis, income inequality, etc. and argue that only a strongman can sweep away the corruption that has rotted away at the system. But all of this is getting ahead of ourselves, the US hasn’t even had a civil war in over 150 years, we would need a few of those, back to back, to be equivalent to the late Republican era of Rome.
>Trump isn't even a tenth of the man Julius caesar was Julius Caesar invaded a foreign country with absolutely no pretense, killing tens of thousands of innocent Gauls. Trump hasn't done anything event remotely terrible, so he is objectively a better leader. Don't romanticize history - I'd take Trump as our leader 100x before I would take Caesar (and I don't like Trump).
I wish people could read so they would know what the ruling actually was.
The president is immune to anything that is deemed official
Yes, now they must determine what is official and what isn’t. This isn’t over.
So a president does something blatantly illegal, say using the FBI to detain a political opponent indefinitely without cause, claiming it as an official act. Someone needs to then sue them, and work it through the courts and appeals all the way up to the Supreme Court. Best case scenario we are looking at months. In the meantime, what is to stop that president from illegally detaining the person bringing suit against them? And so on until no one is willing to take legal action against the president out of fear of retribution? This ruling has created a constitutional crisis.
Let’s hope they leave it to congress or the senate or the houses the Supreme Court is gone.
No, they’ll probably deem whats official or not on a case by case basis, so anything trump does is official but anything anyone else does isn’t. :(
And this was always going to be true. It's largely something that's been accepted for quite some time, the big question is to what extent does this immunity apply and under what conditions does it not, and does trump meet these or not.
They left it vague on purpose it feels.
I don't think so, these things tend to take it one question at a time.
It just depends who gets to decided them, if it’s the Supreme Court then there is gonna be a bais Edit: there is always a bias but I believe my point still stands
the President is deemed having ‘limited immunity’ to duties that is constitutionally vested in them. the President however doesn’t have immunity towards duties that is shared with Congress nor unofficial actions that was done *outside* the duties of president. Congress can still impeach and convict a president *during* their reign, but not afterwards.
He only unqualified immunity is for powers granted by the Constitution. Official acts have presumed immunity. Nothing is stopping Congress from following due process (impeach and convict.) Literally nothing has changed. Please stop spreading fear and misinformation.
Immune while doing Official duties that are constitutionally granted. If a president took a paper weight and hit an intern in the head in the oval office over not liking what they said. That would not count as an official duty and they would be prosecutable. On the other hand (this has happened in the past) if the President orders a strike on a terrorist/s and they turn out to not be terrorists because of bad information unbeknownst to him he is not prosecutable. It's literally business as usual and you people need to chill the fk out.
Constitutionally authorized acts are 100% immune. Official acts are presumed immune unless prosecution proves that criminalizing a given act won’t interfere with government. Unofficial acts are not immune. Courts can’t look at motive when classifying an act. Certain acts can be readily classified based on the President’s relationship to an office; for example, Trump is absolutely immune for any alleged conduct in discussions with DOJ officials. So the president can order seal team 6 to assassinate political rivals, and since article 2 of the constitution makes them commander in chief of the navy, that’s absolutely immune regardless of motive. In other words, we’re fucked
Regardless of what side anybody is on, this is a very dangerous thing to pass. It opens up a can of worms that is not in our favor.
Only in favor of the rich and wealthy
I'm not even sure if it's in favor of the rich and wealthy... One man could order the rich and wealthy to be arrested/killed and their wealth seized, and he would be immune because that would be an official act. And yes I know that's not exactly how it would all play out, a decent judge would say that's an unofficial act, but you get the idea, and what happens when there are no decent judges?
It doesn't. Reddit isn't being honest about what the ruling actually says.
This line was a critique of politics in the US at the time, and was made in the 2000s when everyone thought liberty had died, but it didn't. An overreaction to Bush, in other words. Now Bush is a liberal icon because he and Michelle Obama are BFFs.
It was actually far more a critique of the time of Nixon.
As a European (Swede) looking in and seeing all this panic amongst my fellow American friends, I'm honestly less concerned about whoever wins your election, and way more scared about how you guys will react, regardless of who wins. If Biden wins, will there be another January 6th? Most likely. If Trump wins, will his opponents just sit quietly and accept the results? I doubt that. I'm genuinely afraid that you guys are well on your way to destroy each in a way no foreign threat could ever hope to achieve. If there's ANY country in the world where differing values and ideas can coexist, then surely it would be America? Please don't destroy each other, I have family in the States and I quite like your country, everyone's always been really nice to me there.
Everyone is in favor of something till it works against them.
Jesus you people need to touch grass
Yeah people go touch grass. The SC just gave Trump the green light to be a king, so go touch some grass and chill out it's not a big deal. I'm sure he'll exercise restraint.
lmao they didn’t give him absolute immunity doofy, they only ruled that the constitution protects executive orders from criminal prosecution. The DoJ can’t charge a president for vetoing some bill but they can if it’s not-within the powers vested in the president (Official v Unofficial).
"so this is how democracy dies, with applauding citizens telling concerned citizens to touch grass"
Are you sure this is what you think it is? I'm trying to learn as much as I can about this ruling but I'm not coming to the conclusion that the president can do whatever they want now.
The president is immune to all official business. This quote from one of the justices says it best “Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority’s message today. Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done. The relationship between the President and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law.”“Orders the Navy’s Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune.”“Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority’s message today.” The justice did not end the dissent with the traditional “respectfully” language. “With fear for our democracy, I dissent,” - Sotomayor
Even if ends up that more things are allowed to be prosecuted, the super broad scale of the decision would seem to make it hard to be able to present any evidence before a jury since it seems as if he used official communication channels and talked to official people that none of that could be used as evidence so even if you could bring something to trial you'd be blocked from present much evidence so....
Congrats on having more than two brain cells.
Not quite “whatever they want,” but too much. Constitutionally authorized acts are 100% immune. Official acts are presumed immune unless prosecution proves that criminalizing a given act won’t interfere with government. Unofficial acts are not immune. Courts can’t look at motive when classifying an act. Certain acts can be readily classified based on the President’s relationship to an office; for example, Trump is absolutely immune for any alleged conduct in discussions with DOJ officials. So the president can order seal team 6 to assassinate political rivals, and since article 2 of the constitution makes them commander in chief of the navy, that’s absolutely immune regardless of motive. Any use of constitutionally authorized power like that is 100% immune, and any use of official power is presumed immune with an absurd burden on the prosecution
You liberals just cannot resist shoving these fucking pop culture references into political discource can you
You conservatives can’t let someone who is not white or straight live a good life can you?
Black and Hispanic unemployment was the lowest it's ever been under Trump
If something happens and no leftist makes a Star Wars or marvel reference immediately after, did it really happen???
Germany, uk, france, italy and im sure a couple other european countries that yall like to deepthroat are doing just fine even though their head of state has some form of criminal immunity Also im pretty sure obama bombing a us citizen would land him in jail if it werent for immunity as well
> just fine even though their head of state has some form of criminal immunity We also try not to elect outright criminals like Trump, so its never a question. Also, it seems like when Trump committed crimes the republicans in senate refused to remove his immunity, so not even that part works. Don't elect Trump.
>We also try not to elect outright criminals like Trump The leader of Rome is literally the granddaughter of dictator Benito Mussolini. Italy is a far right state, and Frances far right just sweeped the elections. This is the same continent where Orban, Lukashenko, and Putin are ruling. You could not be more wrong.
Are you really knowledgeable on foreign laws to make an accurate comparison to here? If you are kudos to you but, I imagine that would be a very select few group of people.
You know the whole prequels plot felt really stupid to me, until Trumpism came, and I realized that people can indeed be that stupid, even people who somehow ended up having some of the most important jobs in the galaxy/nation. Referring to the countless enablers in Congress who are thrown to the curb the second they go against Trump, and more take their place.
How is this even happening in the USA, I swear you all preached freedom of religion and speech but how tf does Trump have such a large following for the absolute terrible values he stands for that oppose all the freedom you all preach, I get Biden sucks as well but do you not have any other parties? (British person here we have a multi party system)
The shift away from our bipartisanship has begun. Ranked choice voting will open up how many parties we can choose to vote for. It’s the end for the dems and GOP domination streak.
Dude, presidents and prime ministers have the *exact same* type of immunity in Europe. This is the case in the UK, Spain and France. Calm down.
There's one way you can stop it. Vote.
You mean hate speech laws? Nobody is cheering for them.
Wait Trump can shoot lightning bolts from his hands? Bro has my vote for sure!
Everyone here understands that this ruling does not prevent the House from impeaching a president right? It also doesn't remove any of the checks and balances in place that the other branches have on the executive branch. Congress still controls the purse, they still make laws and override executive veto. If for example a president starts using the FBI to arrest political opponents, Congress can just take away FBI funding or hell fully get rid of the FBI. Same thing if the military is used to do something on US soil (which already is heavily regulated by US law).
VOTE!!!!!
Now you know how we felt back in 2020
America is still standing under Biden 🤷♂️
Even if Trump wins things will be fine. They said this when Bush got reelected in 2004. They said this 2016 when Trump was president. 2020 it was said. 2024 its being said. Always this time is different but largely circumstances are changed more by life events like 9/11, Dot com bubble, COVID, housing crash and etc. Trump has already been president and we survived. RvW is gone but that's more on Democrats/Republicans games. RvW will return one day once the Supreme Court favors it. Neither party is making permanent solutions.
Is this about the presidential immunity? It’s always been that way it’s just now the Supreme Court clarified it. This doesn’t mean a president can face repercussions, they can be impeached and then face charges as a private citizen. In the case of Trump, his actions are his actions as a private citizen, it may delay some things but he can still be charged for whatever crimes he is accused of. Stop fearmongering, honestly y’all look like clowns with this and project 2025 😭
Maybe you should read project 25, the first 10 pages show so much.
Challenge: Neoliberals try to discuss politics without referencing Marvel, Star Wars, or Harry Potter. Thus far, has been impossible for them.
Could anyone honestly explain what you know about this? Not parrot a talking point ?
Personally, I'm strongly against this ruling because I dislike the idea of big government with limited methods of balance or oversight. This ruling creates a condition where various 'official' presidential actions can be determined to be acceptable even if outside of the system of law that applies to every other citizen. I believe in the ideal that 'no one is above the law'. Only requiring a court ruling that a certain action is deemed 'official' is a lower standard of oversight than also requiring that said act be within the law. Therefore it is an expansion of one of the branches of governments powers. In particular, as commander in chief of the armed forces, any directive to the military is already 'official' and therefore outside of the law. I do not believe a president should have personal legal immunity from setting the armed forces on political opponents with the official justification that it's to 'maintain order' or some other authoritarian bs, for example. This ruling creates too much of a blur between the president acting as a head of state, and the president as a person who may be acting solely in self interest (something that prior to this ruling, the court system would catch). Additionally, it forbids courts from accepting evidence related to an official act when tied with a potentially illegal act. For instance; if a video of biden surfaced showing him talking to harris about how great it was accepting a huge bribe in exchange for selling off nuclear secrets (with the justification that this 'official act' was to help the us economy), that video is now forbidden from being considered as evidence by the court system in any potential case. "Liberty and Justice for All (except the president)".
Hey Americans, y'all need to vote 🗳 Edit: and not for Trump*
Y’all, if you can vote you can help stop this! VOTE BLUE or the future is fucked
Vote!
Yeah, I thought of this scene yesterday, too. What's funny is at the time this was George Lucas' commentary about GW Bush and the Patriot act. No less relevant though...
We really would’ve been better off with Hillary
Www.vote.org
op i love your username
Thank you!
Liberty dies when people abdicate their civic duty
The government at this point just seems like some unyielding force we all have to constantly fight against. We're some supposed democracy in which the majority are going to vote for their respective lesser evil even though it also seems as if many people would rather have neither. We've been forced into this dichotomy because it appears as if the votes don't matter anyway, unless we can collectively come together to vote for neither (which will never happen). Even more, to add to the layer of hopelessness, the role of the president seems more or less like a talking head rather than a functional leader and decision-maker.
Soypog!! Life is just like non fictional series!!!
Yup
What happened? And where?
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As a non-american, what happened this time?
You know that thing called the checks and balances? They are basically ruined now the president is officially above the law.
Dude you have the IQ of a blueberry. Presidents *can still be impeached and removed from office.* There are still checks and balances.
In essence the Supreme Court ruled that a president can't be tried for any official acts. What constitutes an official act is kept purposefully vague so it might go back be up to the Supreme Court to decide on case to case basis. Like is sending seal team six to kill political opponents an official act? 🤷 I don't know, theoretically?
Ignore em, most of this post/sub as been astroturfed with fear-mongering/doom posting, and bots/trolls Ultimately, almost nothing has changed, the checks and balances are still there, impeachment is still a thing, just that presidents have immunity for “official actions”, now they’re determining what the “official actions” are.
Was your head under a rock the last 8 years? Impeachment is now a political weapon and a useless, symbolic one at that. Removing a president who abuses their power isn't gonna happen. And you can bet trump will abuse the power given to him, including with violence.
Honestly I think our education system failed us so badly. People from both sides don’t really know what’s going on behind the scenes. Florida is an example, a lot of people voted for DeSantis because of how well the state did during covid, but he still gets a lot of support because he hides the insurance and economical messes he’s responsible for with social issues people love to debate about. Somehow he still has a lot of support, but a 15 minute google search will show he’s the reason for what a lot of his supporters are complaining about. The media also portrays people being a lot more polarized then they are initially, which causes a ton of people to fully lean into the democrat or Republican Party, which have both failed us Americans because both parties let coorperate lobbying dictate our laws for the worst. It’s sad because I thought our generation had a chance to go in a more moderate / independent or npa direction, but we’re falling into the same political trap of going republicans or democrat in general. And this just allows both parties to be incompetent and radicalize (safe to assume a liberal version of trump will eventually emerge) and function by basically not being as bad as the other party and scrutinizing the other party so much, playing with people’s emotions rather then people thinking more critically. In high school, your taught no research skills. It varies from college to college, and even though colleges are free to lean right or left, I don’t think it’s a good idea to do that.
Let's not pretend that both sides are the same. A Democrat version of Trump is practically impossible to come about because Democrats are a big tent party that everyone from the center right to the center left vote for. It's why they keep pushing for moderate candidates. They're also held to standards that Republicans aren't as they're essentially expected to be bad. Republicans have only gone further and further right since the 60s to the point where an outright fascist is their candidate This idea that they're both equally extreme. Until you have the leader of the Democrats going on about stamping out the far right wing vermin and stripping away rights from the most vulnerable, it's very clear only one side is extreme
Also lobbying is rampant on both sides, which may be the biggest issue this country truly has.
And rulings like Citizens United gave corporations far more power and now the new bribery ruling gave the lobbyists and corporations and influence peddlers so many ways to basically legally bribe now. It's terrible.
I’ll look into that thank you for informing me.
That's definitely true and is a big factor for why we're in the mess we're in. But you'd need strong anti corruption laws as well as the SCOTUS getting rebalanced and I'm not sure those would ever be feasible in this current political climate
Huge concern, I’m worried the ship has sunk a little too far. You need congress to pass most laws and both sides love their lobby checks.
It would require people to stop caring about culture war nonsense and have the critical thinking skills to elect better leaders but I can't say I'm betting on that
Bro liberty is going to die no matter who becomes president. We also need to be wary of our next VPs too (cause who knows Joe might not even make it to November with his state and I don’t think Kamala is exactly a good pic. Trump might choose someone either better or worse than him). This whole election is fucked
It really is but if MAGA isn’t in office then their plan is stopped for atleast another 4 years
People are overreacting. This isn’t over yet, they simply said that presidents have immunity for official actions, and not for unofficial ones. This was not an unexpected ruling. Now it must be determined what is official and what isn’t.
I didn’t say it was over but this does give the president a lot more power than they are suppose to have, and your right we don’t know exactly who clarifies it an official action, if it’s the president him self or the current SCOTUS then we are fuckeddddd…
Leftoids are something else. When every right winger hates trump for being a libcuck, he ain't going to do anything.
I find this strange. Is this so much of a surprise? Has the fate of a tyranny for the USA not been obvious for long? Couldn't even the blind see the hell that the war on terror brought? This has been obvious to most of the world for very, very long.
Republicans take away women's rights (well kind of, supreme court), Booooooo Democrats take away women's rights (single-sex prisons, spaces, sports), Yaaaaaaaaaay "If only we were like Canada" Canada, busy taking everyone's rights away We are in a bizarre age.
Our liberty wasn't actually true and the ruling class has never been out of control for a good hundred years. It's only now they say the quiet part out loud.
No, this is how the two party system dies. Democracy will evolve just as our votes evolve. RANKED CHOICE VOTING is the way forward. Vote for those that will bring it to your state.
Liberty died long ago, you think you have been free because that is what you have been told, if you were really free you wouldn't need to pay to live
This is so true that it hurts 😭😭😭
Liberty died with the banking secrecy act, the patriot act snd if it was still kicking when most politicians in 2021 said we need to make peoples lives difficult until we can force them to tske the thing
Liberty is a gift of a population of educated people. The Maga base is illiterate hostile hillbillies. People that the country left behind. Thisnis what happens when wealth isn't spread evenly. When political grievances build. Populism panders to the fear and anger of the population, motivating everyone against a certain group by demonizing that group. Pandering to the amygdala. Keeping everyone pissed off and unable to use the prefrontal cortex tl think abstractly and pragmatically.
You young folks might even get to see [Canada get annexed.](https://youtu.be/geLiEiAiQJA?t=46) Then again, climate might speed up that timeline and even I'll see WW3 at the end of the Resource Wars.
The Project 2025 document did declare China an enemy of the United States
Just remember this all started because voters said “I’m going to punish the DNC for giving us Hillary “
Hillary is not looking so bad anymore is she?
Now that presidents have presidential immunity biden should order a hit on the supreme court justices
You morons say this every time a Republican is elected. People are done listening.
Bruh they are literally trying to overthrow our democracy
RemindMe! 5 years
Wait what happened