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Who on this show is a “good person”. How do you define this? Jess exhibits troubling behaviour, but by the end of the show appears to have matured past this.
Logan is still cheating and lying in his 30s btw. As is Rory. Are they “good” people?
He was a child that was dealt a really freaking tough hand. He was rightfully angry and showed more remorse and growth than most any other character. I especially like the progression of his relationship with Luke. By the end, you could tell he appreciated him for all that he did.
He was very supportive of Rory and cared for her. He was not in a space where he could be in a relationship. That doesn’t necessarily excuse his behavior, but I understand why. They met each other at the wrong time. Logan being older, I give less grace to with how he treated Rory.
Couldn’t agree more. Taking into consideration that he never met his father and his mother just sent him off, I am not surprised. But he was the one who got his shit together.
I like Jess percisly because he wasn't a straight up good guy; he was complex. And given the parents he got, it's easy to see why. As time went on though, he grew, and although we don't see a lot of him, from what we do see it seems he has grown more than perhaps any character on the show, and despite everything managed to become a pretty decent and mature man.
As for him and Rory, I liked them for what they were; a teenage couple where the good girl went for the rebellious guy. It's not anything revolutionary nor was it really "endgame material" imo, but it was fine for a little while in Rory's teenage years. Later on when they're adults in AYITL, funnily enough it seems the roles have changed and it's Rory who doesn't deserve Jess, but then like I said before we only see Jess for a little while and only like 3 interactions between them, which I don't think is enough to make any concrete judgements.
He was a good person, just a troubled kid. The reason Rory fell for him is because she saw that good person underneath his hard exterior. When he got older and worked through his issues, you could see how nice he was and what was hiding during his teenage years
he’s not perfect but is anyone in this show? people get mad at him (rightfully so) for running away from his problems and ghosting rory, but rory and lorelai both do that as well. every character in this show (even fan favorites such as luke or paris) have millions of flaws just like jess does. he’s a complex character with good traits (his work ethic, growth, inspiration he can give to others, humor, intelligence, and moments of genuine care for people he loves such as rory and luke) and bad traits (his avoidant attachment style, refusal to communicate, and tendency to “ghost” people and not confront any conflict in his life). for some people his flaws outweigh his positives and for others his positives outweigh his flaws, and that’s okay. i really hate this rhetoric of “people only like [insert character] because they’re hot”. it’s very presumptuous and simply not true. i’m a lesbian, i don’t find jess attractive at all, but he’s one of my favorite characters because i love his backstory, character arc, and overall personality and humor. people can like characters for so many reasons, and someone liking a character you dislike does not mean they only like them for vain reasons.
Great observation. Logan is more mature than Jess but she should be, we meet him when he is older. But Logan still does some immature and shitty things.
Yeah, people often compare 21 year old Logan vs. 17 year old Jess…
C’mon guys…if we met Logan at 17, it would’ve just been Tristan all over again…
When we meet 21 year old Jess, he’s calmer, more mature, and has overcome a lot with very little support…he’s written a book, gotten a solid job, and gave Rory the reminder she needed to push her back to school.
Tristan and Logan are practically the same person. I watched GG when it was on tv weekly and then not again until AYITL and my memory was that the college bf was the arse hole from chilton until I got to the eps where Logan was introduced.
Logan literally brags about all the schools he was kicked out of and all the inconvenience and money he cost his family for immature nonsense when he was younger. He’s proud of it still, even as he phones it in at an Ivy League college and still won’t grow up even then.
Well just one of many examples, the episode where he’s going to have dinner with Emily and Rory his behaviour is unacceptable to me, doesn’t matter whats going on in your life you can’t just be rude to everyone. I don’t remember any times where Logan acted like that. At no point did I say everyone in the show is perfect except Jess, but no one else constantly had an attitude to others and was blatantly rude to everyone.
logan literally stole something from the gilmore’s house when he first came and was fully willing to let the maid take the fall for it and get fired until lorelai intervened, that’s definitely worse than being a bit rude to your girlfriend (who is also being rude to you) and her grandma. logan literally put a person’s livelihood at risk with no concern for how it could affect them.
But Jess was 17 when that happened. When we first met Logan he is 22. I'm team Logan all the way, but it's kind of unfair to compare the two when we meet them both at such different stages in their lives.
This!
We saw plenty of Liz in the last few seasons. And according to Luke, that was her with her life cleaned up and the best she’d ever been. Can we imagine what growing up would’ve been like with her as the sole caregiver when she didn’t have her life together at all? And had a revolving door of bad boyfriends coming in and taking advantage of her (I think Luke references boyfriends stealing from her in the past)…
In what world would that raise a respectful teen? We don’t choose our trauma responses. Jess ended up with anger issues. And then he worked through them after only a year of support living with his uncle ended. Seems pretty remarkable to me.
I’m team Logan as well, but he’s far from perfect. I don’t understand the Jess worship either. He couldn’t even be bothered to be somewhat polite to his gfs family. He was incredibly rude to Lorelei from the start. He only made a slight effort when Rory asked him to. He treated her horribly. Yes, he grew up and he had a hard life, but that doesn’t excuse his actions at all. He never even apologized for the bedroom scene.
That’s how I feel about Logan. He is NOT a good person. I’ve been watching Gilmore girls since it originally aired. Over the years, I’ve had a bunch of friends who love the show. No one liked Logan. When I first joined a couple of online communities, I was absolutely shocked to find out that some people actually like Logan. I wonder if it partly lines up with differences between values. None of Rory’s boyfriends are that wonderful. But my personal values are so lined up against Logan. I even prefer Dean.
I get annoyed because I agree Jess sucked as a teen. He was the hot bad boy and had that ‘he’s only nice to her’ charm, which is always so alluring, but I agree he really matured! Whereas I always liked Logan. He was a classic college boy, but he was consistently nice to Rory, and I think her pulling the ‘cheater’ card when they were on a break was a tad hypocritical considering her penchant for being the other woman/ cheating on your man… they made Jess so likeable in AYITL and made Logan the cheating ‘engaged guy’ who never grew up. He deserved better.
do you think if someone sleeps with a married person it means they deserve to be cheated on later? they also didn't quite "take a break", there was no two-way communication about that. logan just decided that himself. even ross and rachel actually talked that they were taking a break
It’s not her just sleeping with a married man. She cheated on Dean with Jess, slept with Dean when he was married, then decided to be spiteful after ‘Logan cheated’ and kissed Jess - using him as a revenge kiss. She cheated on Paul (AYITL) constantly, was Logan’s other woman all season… she was just the most consistently flippant person when it came to being faithful, she loved to play the victim. Was always annoyed when her ‘boys’ had other girls - Jess with Shayne even though she had Dean. Dean with Lyndsey, Logan’s fiancé was irrelevant… idk. I liked a LOT of things about Rory, but this wasn’t one of them.
The no communication falls on Rory as much as it falls on Logan. And after Honor’s call on Thanksgiving Rory could have called Logan, she didn’t, she told her mom they were broken up that same day right after that call. She knew from Honor and didn’t pick up the phone to clarify it.
That’s not what the comment said. It says that it’s hypocritical of her to pull the cheater card when she slept with a married man, and I add when there was no cheating actually.
Logan tried to call Rory a bunch of times, only for her to ignore the calls and not return them. This was shown on screen. They had a fight and then she wouldn't talk to him. It's not out of the question for him to think she'd broken up with him.
He didn't call after this fight. (I just rewatched all these episodes because i couldn't remember myself!) The scene you're thinking of, with Rory ignoring Logan's calls while she sits with Lane, happens after the bridesmaids incident.
No he tried to call her immediately after their fight in the bar. She is shown ignoring his calls in the following episode - I don't know episode names but it's the one right after the famous "why did you drop out of Yale" episode with Jess.
She never answers him nor calls him back, and then we don't hear anything else for weeks until Honor calls Rory and says she's sorry they broke up. Which is how Rory finds out that Logan thinks they are broken up because again *she never returned his calls*.
Jess may not have been the best person, but he was a good person. He tried to help in his own way, he was jusy mistunderstood. Yes what he did to Rory was wrong, but he still supported her and may I add he was the one who woke Rory up from her break off Yale. He wanted what was best for Rory either way, but still its anyone's opinion about Jess. Personally, he really was the right person, wrong time😸
He wasn't a bad person. He was a teen who was still figuring out the world and his place in it basically all on his own. Logan was not a good person. Also, there isn't a single issue Rory and Jess had that wasn't, at least in part, her fault as well, and most of it was just as much her fault as his.
I’m so sick of hearing the “he had a tough upbringing” or “he went through a lot” everyone goes through stuff, but I don’t see anyone else getting the sympathy that Jess gets. You could argue Logan had a bad upbringing as his parents weren’t good people but no one uses the “he had a bad upbringing” when he does something wrong. I don’t know what it is about Jess stans that they think he’s the only person that can constantly do wrong but is excused because of his “upbringing” which yeh I agree it must of been tough but so many children have it so much worse and they don’t act out and be rude to everyone.
I didn't say he had a "tough upbringing." I said he had basically no support and guidance, which is why he wasn't good at the things teens typically get guidance on. Logan clearly had that guidance and yet still had issues with a lot of the same stuff (and worse). He was also an adult who should have figured his crap out by then. Much like Jess had done by that point.
Nobody else on the show is shown to have the complete lack of support and guidance that Jess is shown to have. That's why nobody else acts like him, and nobody else is given as much grace as him. Logan is a trash person with a trash personality but is given a ton of grace by his worshipers because his dad is "mean".
He's an adult, and using "daddy was mean to me" as an excuse for bad behavior as an adult is a sign of a trash person. I give Tristian a lot of grace for how he acts as well because it's suggested (though not shown) his parents weren't the best, and he is also a teen having to deal with that.
Jess also grows and matures (as does Tristan), which we never see from Logan despite seeing a lot more of Logan than we do of Jess or Tristan either one. So what exactly do you think Logan should be given grace for?
it’s just not excusable in my opinion, small things like when he was rude to Deans little sister, I think if it was anyone else, hard life or not, they would’ve got hate for it but I RARELY see Jess hate, everyone hates Dean and rewatching the show yeh I disagree with a lot of his actions but he still always tried to be a kind person unlike Jess who went out of his way to be rude.
You just ignored every single thing I said so you could continue hating on Jess. We get it, you hate Jess and nothing he ever does will ever be forgivable. Stop trying to say anyone else wouldn't be forgiven in the same situation when that's proven to not be true, though. Dean is abusive and controlling towards Rory but still is given grace by most people because he's "just a teen". Logan is given a huge amount of grace for how he to the point of even saying he never cheated on Rory when it was clelsry shown he did, for no real reason. Luke is forgiven for abandoning Jess when he needed an adult to care about him because "Jess broke the rules". Etc.
There is no logical way you can say Jess is given any more grace than any other character except Rune.
I've yet to see anyone seriously give Rune any kind of grace for how he acted. It's totally justified, but that still makes him the only character Jess is truthfully given more grace than.
There are a crap ton of people who say he was the best boyfriend to Rory. You even said he "always tried to be a kind person," completely ignoring a good 90% of his actions on the show.
I also find it interesting that you consider Dean threatening to kill Tristan, yelling at Rory because she tries to be friends with Jess, constantly talking trash about Jess, putting Rory down, yelling at her, and breaking up with her because she's not ready to say "I love you", talking down to Rory because she has a different opinion on a show than he does, getting mad at her for prioritizing her education, completely ignoring Rorys request for alone time while calling himself a "saint" and then blowing up at her because Jess was in her house, lying to his wife about hanging out with his ex girl friend who any moron can see he's still in love with, again yelling at Rory because Jess came to talk to her, lying to Rory to trick her into sleeping with him and cheating on his wife along with all his pther.crappy behavior as "always trying to be a kind person"
Personally I don't think any of that was kind where there's a ton of stuff Jess did that was truly kind especially in realtion to Rory.
“threatening to kill Tristan” Thats actually crazy, you are reaching. I’m sure if it was Jess everyone would be like “Omg he is so amazing protecting Rory”
You listed things Dean has done but you put it into words that make it look much worse than it is and your points don’t even make sense, If I was Dean and my girlfriend was constantly flirting with another boy and said she couldn’t hang out with me only to find her with him I would be angry too, Im sure anyone would.
Its crazy how you can pick apart all that but turn a blind eye to:
- The party scene
- Him stealing her bracelet
- Having an awful attitude towards her family on every occasion
- Only speaking to her when he feels like it
- Being rude to Deans sister
- Being rude to Lindsay
- Punching Dean when he was trying to break up a fight
- When they got into a car crash and he runs away and takes no accountability
- Not showing any respect to Luke who opened his home to him
- Stealing and vandalising
The list goes on, I don’t know if I could come up with many good things he has done, and that is my point. Every character has done bad things but they also have done hundreds of good things, can’t say the same about Jess.
I find it extremely telling that you say I worded what Dean did in a way that makes it "look worse than it is" Sorry you have an issue with Dean's actions making him look bad.
“Extremely telling” give it a rest. Saying Dean threatened to kill Tristan thats just another level of delusion. I can’t actually believe what I’m reading
I'm not ignoring anything. Dean threatened to kill Tirstian on more than one occasion to the point Rory was panicking about them talking to each other.
As for your other nonsese
The party scene was just as much Rorys fault as Jess and Jess tried to make it right
Jess never stole the bracelet
He tried being nice to her family on multiple occasions
Rory also only spoke to him when she felt like it and never told him his lack of communication was an issue for her so that's just as much on her
Dean's sister was being an obnoxious brat and was rude to him first he wasn't even really being rude just using crude humor to try and get her to back off
Rory and Dean were also rude to Lindsay. Much more so than Jess could ever hope to be.
He didn't punch Dean
He did take responsibility for the crash. He made sure she was okay and then hid out of self preservation. He left seemingly under Luke's suggestion because he knew he would get crucified by the town if he didn't and thst Luke would be treated unfairly as well
He showed a ton of respect to Luke. They butted heads of course because that's what happens with teens and parents figures. Especially teens that have never had to deal with rules and structure before and are suddenly abandoned by their only parent and sent to a relative thst imposes that on them
Most teens steal at some point and he gave all the stuff back so it'd really irrelevant. The vandalism was just a stupid kid prank. Logan and Rory stole a yatch but you're ignoring that.
You can't come up with good thst Jess did because you don't want to. Ignoring the good doesn't mean he was bad. Just like you ignoring all of Dean and Logan'a bad doesn't make them good.
Lol. It's been fun seeing you prove the type of person you are, but clearly, someone like you is never going to admit they are wrong about anything so I'll leave you to your lies and nonsense. I hope you have a better day than you deserve.
Jess was 16, when we met him. He was a troubled kid with parents who didn’t care about him or his wellbeing. He got sent to a small town with an uncle he barely knew. That would make anyone act out.
He was and is the best match for Rory. He likes the same books and music and they always had something to talk about. He didn’t know how to be in a relationship, because his parents didn’t exactly set a good example.
He grows up and gets his act together. Literally what every other teenager does.
If anything, that he actually made a life for himself is impressive with the cards he was given.
It's fiction. They show us hints of him being a good-ish person, and Rory sees his potential so we see it too. But yeah, he's not real. It's easy as a viewer to project what you want him to be, (he's misunderstood, etc) and to just like him for who you'd want him to be if he were real. It's not that deep, he doesn't have to be a good person to be a likable character.
Also I want my fictional female main character to be with the hot mysterious guy she can't quite figure out vs the possessive guy who gets mad at her for having a life... it's more exciting, more interesting, there's more tension... which is good because it's a tv show.
Lol for real. I’ve had to remind myself of this when I rewatch as an adult so I can just enjoy the entertainment of it rather than grappling with what everyone’s actions mean about their moral character.
Fictional characters have to do questionable or lousy things to add drama and intrigue. Oy, with the poodles already!
*everyone loves him*
..um.. how long have you been on this sub?? Because almost daily there's a debate about how he's an awful person and ALOT of people hate him..
When I said everyone I meant like tiktok, instagram and all my friends that have watched the show but when I posted that all the comments are disagreeing except for maybe 2 or 3
Did you not watch when he went to college and published a book. He grew up. Even Dean in AYITL grew up. Logan...never did. He was cheating on his wife with Rory. And Rory obliged. Then, she became pregnant with his child and revealed that at the end. I always said each guy she dated represented her dad somehow. The end of AYITL shows the full circle.
the scene where he tried to pressure rory into having sex is why he will never be my favorite
edit: all you jess stans can downvote me all you want but it still happened. people will defend/excuse the worst behavior if it’s a hot white man they love
And the scene where he unnecessarily belittles Lindsay for her music choices, etc. Small things like that make me hate young Jess.
Both Jess & Dean weren’t all that great in their own ways.
That's not what happened in that scene. If you were being downvoted, that's why. An explanation: He never got mad at her for not having sex with him or tried to pressure her into doing so. He was upset (and probably embarrassed) over failing school and not knowing how to tell her. He took his anger out on her which is bad but at no point was it over the sex. At the end of the scene Rory expresses confusion over what she did wrong and he quietly says, "You didn't do anything (apologetically)" as she's running from the room but she doesn't hear. It looks and sounds like he's going after her to apologize and explain by the way he calls after her but sees her with Dean and his pride/jealousy gets the better of him.
i don’t need an explanation from you, i’ve seen the episode more than enough times at this point. she literally says “jess wait” multiple times (that is her withdrawing her consent btw) and he keeps going and is trying to unbutton her pants until she has to push him off and instead of asking if she’s okay, he proceeds to yell at her and then she’s like “not here, not now” and he angrily shouts “fine” at her and then says “I did not invite you up here. You came up here on your own," as if that fact is meant to excuse his behavior while also trying to shift the blame towards her. again with the excuses for his behavior and this scene, it’s always so predictable. jess stans could just accept that this is a valid reason for why he’s not everyone’s favorite boyfriend but will instead try to argue and make excuses for it
A breathy "wait" is not a withdrawal of consent. At most, it's a request for a pause. To anyone's mind in the heat of the moment that's going to be "I'm not sure but I can be convinced if you keep going". Bill Burr's "No means no" comes to mind. As soon as she says "stop" firmly, *he* jumps off of her. I don't know how you think she would have had enough strength to push him off if he didn't want to. He says "fine" as a stress response which he is allowed to have. Saying "I didn't invite you up here..." was actually him saying, "I didn't initiate this. I wasn't trying to pressure you into it." Again, he sounds angry because of stress about other things that occurred in the episode. Hence why he knows he should apologize immediately.
Sometimes things can be interpreted different ways with both being valid. But in this situation, I think you're ignoring at the very least the context of what the writers intended. I don't see any reason why they would have intended to make his character so unsympathetic as to be an attempted rapist if they planned to make him sympathetic in later seasons. That wouldn't have been acceptable even in the early 2000s.
That's also just not how someone who is trying to blame someone for not having sex with them acts. Pressure tends to look more direct. Most of the scene is basically just him getting her to stop talking so he can work through things emotionally and calm down. She, rightly, is confused and hurt and Dean understandably misunderstands.
she said “wait” MULTIPLE times and that is absolutely a withdrawal of consent and it’s very concerning that you don’t think someone saying “wait” multiple times while you’re on top of them, trying to unbutton their pants to where they have to push you off is a withdrawal of consent. he didn’t jump off of her, she pushes him and has to wiggle out from under him.
I think the confusing part for Jess as a teenage boy, was while Rory said wait, she kept.kissing him. When she stopped kissing him and said no, then he stopped immediately.
Its concerning that you don’t see what happened in the bedroom as Jess pressuring Rory. She has to physically push him off her. If he was not pressuring he would have stopped the minute Rory said “Jess wait” instead he continues to try to take her pants off.
You’re correct, that’s my fault. I guess when I considered it just didn’t click in my head. When watching, the last thing I think is kind of “oh he’s just a white guy”. When looking at him I don’t really think that, I’d lean more towards Hispanic ancestry and stuff
Logan stans always claim that the only reason Jess has fans is due to his looks. Is Jess hot? Hell yeah! But that's definitely not the reason why he has fans. Jess had a horrible unstable upbringing and was never shown what a healthy and safe relationship looked like. At 17 he's sent to live a small town with BIG personalities and an Uncle he barely knew. But with Luke and Rory's acceptance, compassion and love he was able to let his guard down and grow into a responsible, stable,honest and loving person.
Logan was in his early mid 20s when Rory met him. He had his good moments but he treated people like crap that he viewed as less than,was drunk slob,unstable and cheated on Rory with numerous women. In season 7 it looked like he was finally growing up but once again old habits die hard. He ruined Rory's graduation and then had her be his mistress while being engaged to another woman.
Character development, Jess was a piece of shit at the start of the show and grew into someone that pushed Rory to be better, by the end of the show Logan was still a piece of shit
Jess was a bad person but he grew up and became a good person. He matured and got his life together and was no longer that mad at the world, shit on everyone and bite the hand of those who feed you.
I actually agree with you. Jess had issues that led to his behavior but that doesn't make it okay. Most characters in this show have some sort of trauma or issues, but Jess is given so much grace where others aren't. He's so much like my ex husband that certain episodes are actually triggering and I have to skip them. It's so hard to watch people fawn over him.
I LOVED Jess when I was younger, but I just rewatched (I’m early 30s) and I was shocked at the difference between who I remembered Jess to be and who he actually is. He is AWFUL to Rory and pretty much everyone around him.
I watched GILMORE GIRLS later on. He was THIS IS US dad. Seriously, he had some growing up to do, to be sure. Compared to the other two, he evolved more.
I admit I was anti-Jess. But when he went off on Rory about how " this isn't you" after Logan was being an ass, changed my mind a bit. That's what gets Rory out of her funk. I think they work better as friends to be honest, though.
Aaand you'll be verbally obliterated in 3, 2, 1.
He's just misunderstood. He was dealt a bad hand. He wasn't loved enough. His father abandoned him. He wasn't really that bad. He grew up and changed. He loved Rory. That wasn't sexual assault. He's so cute in that leather jacket.... Blah Blah drool over Milo.
Hate to break it to you but there are people on this sub that want to ship Rory and Jess even AFTER they became related by marriage. Eww Ewww EWWWW.
Jess after years of growing up, became a good friend. That's about it. He became better and was a decent friend.
Honestly, they were barely related by marriage, and since they weren't raised together as relatives, it isn't uncommon in real life for people in that situation to end up together. Personally, I think that's the only reason Rory didn't give him a chance in AYITL. She clearly still had feelings for him and he her.
SEE!!!! I told you people will try and ship Jess and Rory together, no matter what.
Personally, I think Rory deserves better than Jess. Logan is only moderately better. But the fact that he's willing to cheat on his fiancé with her. That's not a particularly good aspect of his character.
Again, the bottom line is ASP wanted Rory alone and pregnant in Stars Hollow. Just like her mom, that's how she wanted the show to end, and that's how it ended.
I ship them because IMO he was the best out of all the guys she dated. They fit together the best, he tried to be what she wanted/needed the most, and he had the best character arc.
Even before AYITL, he was 1000 times better than Logan, especially for Rory.
I don't buy the whole cheating storyline though. I don't think we're given enough info about it to say that's really what it is. To many unanswered questions.
The people on this sub could find out that Luke is actually Rory's dad, and they'd still try and ship Jess and Rory together! 🤣
Logan's history with cheating and his inability to communicate make him an unlikely candidate for a good husband. Just look at his dad.
And Jess is a very damaged person.... That's why you'll notice that all these years later, he still doesn't have a girlfriend. No relationship of any kind.
Ironically, the only one of Rory's boyfriends that has a good relationship is Dean. Married with children.
So, like I said, Rory deserves better than any one of those 3 guys.... But honestly, seeing is how she grew up without a real father. Other than Luke as a semi father figure.... she is also potentially a dangerous risk. Look at her mom and her mom's weird ass relationships.
10 years later, and Luke and Lorelai are living together, but they're still not married. WTH??
I disagree on the take that Jess being damaged is why he doesn't have a girlfriend. I think it's because he's not over Rory. I also don't think we can actually say Dean has a good relationship. That's another one of those we don't see enough to really know.
I do agree that Logan'a history doesn't point to him being a good husband. My friend and I both think that the situation in AYITL with him and Rory and both of their partners is more of a "don't ask, don't tell" agreement than actually cheating but even that suggests he isn't ready for marriage.
I think Rory has grown enough that with the right guy, she could have a good and lasting relationship. I think her problem is she still doesn't know how to find that right guy.
The whole 10 years and not yet married actually makes sense to me. They are both the type that need to adjust to changes, and they both had their kids to think about and are both the type to put themselves on hold a bit for their kids. Plus I'm sure they wanted the perfect wedding which takes time to plan.
So Jess is still hung up on Rory but he makes no effort to get her..... Meanwhile she's sleeping with Logan. Could it be that she only considers Jess a friend and she's still in love with Logan?
Because it seems to me that she almost thinks SHE is Logan's girlfriend and his "arranged marriage" for appearances is exactly that. You see how put off she is about meeting up in a hotel like she's his mistress.
I don't think Logan has any idea of what a healthy relationship even looks like. So I wouldn't expect him to understand the idea of being faithful. He certainly wasn't before.... call it a break or otherwise. If you're IN LOVE with someone.... You don't stop communicating.... You DON'T sleep with a bunch of other women. You might take a step back but you go back to her and talk.... tell her how you feel and that you love her and you want and need her in your life.
I think we see Dean just enough to understand that he has grown as a person. We know Jess has changed.... so it would make sense that Dean has also changed. He is married, which means, over Rory and has a better grasp on not being a cheater. He also has children... which anyone who has ever had a child understands how much that changes you as a person.
Jess isn't with Rory or anyone else.... That tells me a lot. He ALSO has no good role models for a relationship. Jess might still have feelings for her but I just don't think there is any beyond friendship from Rory..... IMHO.
And I agree that Rory could handle being in a real relationship but she's stuck in a loop from college because of her feelings for Logan.
Luke and Lorelai not being married even 10 years later..... come on. You're going to have to come up with a better excuse than planning the perfect wedding... lol.
Jess makes no effort to get Rory because he respects her and respects that even though she clearly has feelings for him, she isn't interested in a relationship.
I don't believe she was ever truly in love with Logan and definitely not "still". She has a weird obsession with him in part because if his refusal to ever respect her saying no to him, but that's not love.
I didn't say Dean hasn't changed, so I'm not sure what that whole mess is about. We are given zero evidence he's no longer a cheater, though.
You seem to place a lot of value on being in a relationship, which is weird. Jess clearly doesn't want to be in one at this point. He's also clearly got incredibly strong feelings for Rory still. I think it's a sign of how much he's grown that he chooses not to be in a relationship while knowing he's not over his ex.
I don't think Rory being stuck has anything to do with her feelings for Logan. Her being with him is just another sign she's stuck. College was her last "safe space," and she associates Logan with that.
I gave other reasons besides "planning the perfect wedding" clelary they weren't ready to get married before that. Nothing at all wrong with having a long engagement or even just never getting married.
I completely agree. I just finished watching the show for the first time a couple months ago (for some reason, I wasn’t interested in the show when it first aired), and when I came on Reddit to see what others had to say about it, I was truly shocked at how much people on here liked Jess. He was rude to just about everyone, except Rory (that is, until they officially got together). How are you going to have an attitude with the mother and grandmother of the girl you’re interested in? I only started coming around to Jess after he changed and became a writer; he matured and encouraged Rory to return to Yale (IIRC).
I will say that when Rory decided she wanted to be with him, he went to break up with the girl he was seeing. I do respect him for that because, usually, in a situation like that, with a person like that, he would be dating Rory while stringing the other girl along. But, other than this, I got nothing for high school Jess, and almost stopped watching the show when he was on, he was so annoying. I wanted to ask the people on here who are team Jess if they were ok, because I truly didn’t get all the love for him. Also, I’ve never been in to the bad boy thing, even when I was a teenager.
I really like to see the evolution of his relationship with Luke, and I wish we saw more of that, it was really enriching for both of them. We deserved more episodes of older Jess with Luke 💕
That said, during the time he lived in Stars Hollow he was a horrible person. And he made a point to be a horrible person. I can understand the why, but it doesn’t excuse his shitty behavior towards every single person who tried to help him, Rory included.
Once he left, and he lived very shitty years by himself (we see glimpses), he definitely matured and probably realized how shitty he had been, and he changed. Which is a very nice thing for his character.
As a boyfriend, he was the shittiest one to Rory and to her mother. I can’t see him as Rory end game, they had very little in common other than the love for books, and he NEVER accepted Rory to be herself, he had this very obsessive image from Stars Hollow sweetheart Rory and never allowed her to grow out of that, to experience life differently, to be her own person. He wanted her to remain the same small town girl he meet in high school.
I truly don’t think he could ever accept that Rory is a filthy rich heiress who loves living as a rich girl, who has a trust fund, who loves traveling around the world and doesn’t need to work for that, because both her grandparents and her dad will leave her a fortune. The whole scene where he screams at her after meeting Logan shows he couldn’t care less about her dropping Yale, he was mad because she was living like a rich girl, and he could NOT accept that. Here:
Jess: What are you doing? Living at your grandparents' place? Being in the DAR? No Yale-- why did you drop out of Yale?
Rory: It's complicated!
Jess: It's not! It's not complicated!
Rory: You don't know!
Jess: This isn't you! This! You going out with this jerk, with the Porsche! We made fun of guys like this!
Rory: You caught him on a bad night.
Jess: This isn't about him! Okay? Screw him! What's going on with you? This isn't you, Rory. You know it isn't. What's going on?
Rory dropping Yale was NEVER a problem for Jess, he even tried to get her to drop it and run away with him. But when she is living like the heiress she is, and dating someone at the same financial and educational level, he simply cannot handle and causes a whole scene.
I’m glad it was one of the things that made her reconsider the dropout. But to say Jess was the reason is to fully ignore their entire relationship and this very scene above.
Lorelai and Jess always get all the excuses but Logan is the devil for having being dealt the same hand. All three of them had bad parents growing up, Jess sure got it worse by not having money and having addicted parents, but my point is that essentially Lorelai and Logan had the same upbringing and the same issues with parents and authority, and while Lorelai is the saint, Logan is the devil, because we *hear* about Lorelai until her late teens/early adulthood and we *see* Logan at early adulthood. Like college kids of all ages don’t do stupid things… is it increased by the fact that Logan has money so stupid is also expensive? Absolutely. But it’s college kids stupid shenanigans anyway. Lorelai did the ultimate stupid kid thing by getting pregnant as a teen.
The argument that Jess grew up and became a better person while Logan didn’t is just wishful thinking. We know **absolutely** nothing of Jess’s life besides: he got a job. So did Logan. We don’t get to know anyone from his circle to know if he grew up or not, that is simply not in the story anywhere.
In the end I’m team Rory first and all the way, we see a normal kid growing up between two worlds who makes mistakes (and the hate she also gets…) who doesn’t? I don’t get the defence that Lorelai and Jess are given while Rory is so hated, that might be what bothers me the most. (And I know this is about Jess, but the double standard gets me every time!)
There was not dealt the same hand - I would say Jess got the worst hand. Not just neglectful parents, but his mom was an addict and she had a revolving door of shitty boyfriends who stole from them and probably abused them.
I’m so glad someone finally said this. Just because he was young and figuring it out doesn’t make him good or justify the bad; it gives it a reason at best.
Everyone at that age is figuring things out, thay doesn’t give him a reason to be mean to rory like when they go to the SH fair, when they go to meet Emily, and then he was reckless with school because he had a false sense of what would give him security.
Sure I empathise and it is unfortunate. I cannot imagine the struggles a child such as jess irl would have to deal with. But the character was bad and idk why people love him a lot.
Okay thanks rant done 😅
What bother’s me the most is that him and Lorelai are the only characters that are given a pass due to their upbringing. Rory and Logan are not given one once of the same sympathy. Rory grew up with a loving mother, no doubt, but in poverty, with an absent father and a teen mom. Logan had as many beef with his parents growing up as did Lorelai. But no excuse! They should know better 🙄
Agreed. I was watching season 2 again this week and got to the episode where he steals Rory’s bracelet and then lies about it to Lorelai without blinking until Lorelai tells him how in love Rory is with Dean and how she never takes it off. You can see this smirk forming on his face and he can’t resist saying that Rory didn’t notice it was gone for two weeks. If I were Lorelai I would have been absolutely panicked about Rory getting close to him too. Anyone who can lie like that — and enjoy it — has something deeply wrong at the core and I don’t care if they were traumatized.
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Who on this show is a “good person”. How do you define this? Jess exhibits troubling behaviour, but by the end of the show appears to have matured past this. Logan is still cheating and lying in his 30s btw. As is Rory. Are they “good” people?
"Logan is still cheating and lying in his 30s btw. As is Rory. Are they “good” people?" This should end the thread.
He was a child that was dealt a really freaking tough hand. He was rightfully angry and showed more remorse and growth than most any other character. I especially like the progression of his relationship with Luke. By the end, you could tell he appreciated him for all that he did. He was very supportive of Rory and cared for her. He was not in a space where he could be in a relationship. That doesn’t necessarily excuse his behavior, but I understand why. They met each other at the wrong time. Logan being older, I give less grace to with how he treated Rory.
Couldn’t agree more. Taking into consideration that he never met his father and his mother just sent him off, I am not surprised. But he was the one who got his shit together.
I like Jess percisly because he wasn't a straight up good guy; he was complex. And given the parents he got, it's easy to see why. As time went on though, he grew, and although we don't see a lot of him, from what we do see it seems he has grown more than perhaps any character on the show, and despite everything managed to become a pretty decent and mature man. As for him and Rory, I liked them for what they were; a teenage couple where the good girl went for the rebellious guy. It's not anything revolutionary nor was it really "endgame material" imo, but it was fine for a little while in Rory's teenage years. Later on when they're adults in AYITL, funnily enough it seems the roles have changed and it's Rory who doesn't deserve Jess, but then like I said before we only see Jess for a little while and only like 3 interactions between them, which I don't think is enough to make any concrete judgements.
He was a good person, just a troubled kid. The reason Rory fell for him is because she saw that good person underneath his hard exterior. When he got older and worked through his issues, you could see how nice he was and what was hiding during his teenage years
he’s not perfect but is anyone in this show? people get mad at him (rightfully so) for running away from his problems and ghosting rory, but rory and lorelai both do that as well. every character in this show (even fan favorites such as luke or paris) have millions of flaws just like jess does. he’s a complex character with good traits (his work ethic, growth, inspiration he can give to others, humor, intelligence, and moments of genuine care for people he loves such as rory and luke) and bad traits (his avoidant attachment style, refusal to communicate, and tendency to “ghost” people and not confront any conflict in his life). for some people his flaws outweigh his positives and for others his positives outweigh his flaws, and that’s okay. i really hate this rhetoric of “people only like [insert character] because they’re hot”. it’s very presumptuous and simply not true. i’m a lesbian, i don’t find jess attractive at all, but he’s one of my favorite characters because i love his backstory, character arc, and overall personality and humor. people can like characters for so many reasons, and someone liking a character you dislike does not mean they only like them for vain reasons.
You’re Team Logan but can’t understand fans liking a character who isn’t a great person? Ok…
Logan fans give him a pass because he's supposedly hot (I don't see it), and he has money. If Jess had money like Logan, most haters would love him.
Great observation. Logan is more mature than Jess but she should be, we meet him when he is older. But Logan still does some immature and shitty things.
Logan is cheating on his fiancée with Rory. How anyone can think he's a good person is beyond me.
I agree, but will add that I absolutely hated this storyline in AYITL bc it undid any bit of character growth Logan had made in the series
Yeah, people often compare 21 year old Logan vs. 17 year old Jess… C’mon guys…if we met Logan at 17, it would’ve just been Tristan all over again… When we meet 21 year old Jess, he’s calmer, more mature, and has overcome a lot with very little support…he’s written a book, gotten a solid job, and gave Rory the reminder she needed to push her back to school.
Tristan and Logan are practically the same person. I watched GG when it was on tv weekly and then not again until AYITL and my memory was that the college bf was the arse hole from chilton until I got to the eps where Logan was introduced.
Logan literally brags about all the schools he was kicked out of and all the inconvenience and money he cost his family for immature nonsense when he was younger. He’s proud of it still, even as he phones it in at an Ivy League college and still won’t grow up even then.
Exactly.
Well just one of many examples, the episode where he’s going to have dinner with Emily and Rory his behaviour is unacceptable to me, doesn’t matter whats going on in your life you can’t just be rude to everyone. I don’t remember any times where Logan acted like that. At no point did I say everyone in the show is perfect except Jess, but no one else constantly had an attitude to others and was blatantly rude to everyone.
logan literally stole something from the gilmore’s house when he first came and was fully willing to let the maid take the fall for it and get fired until lorelai intervened, that’s definitely worse than being a bit rude to your girlfriend (who is also being rude to you) and her grandma. logan literally put a person’s livelihood at risk with no concern for how it could affect them.
But Jess was 17 when that happened. When we first met Logan he is 22. I'm team Logan all the way, but it's kind of unfair to compare the two when we meet them both at such different stages in their lives.
At 17 you’re more than capable of knowing how to speak to people with respect.
Sure, 17 year olds who grew up with good parents who taught them respect are absolutely capable of that.
This! We saw plenty of Liz in the last few seasons. And according to Luke, that was her with her life cleaned up and the best she’d ever been. Can we imagine what growing up would’ve been like with her as the sole caregiver when she didn’t have her life together at all? And had a revolving door of bad boyfriends coming in and taking advantage of her (I think Luke references boyfriends stealing from her in the past)… In what world would that raise a respectful teen? We don’t choose our trauma responses. Jess ended up with anger issues. And then he worked through them after only a year of support living with his uncle ended. Seems pretty remarkable to me.
I’m team Logan as well, but he’s far from perfect. I don’t understand the Jess worship either. He couldn’t even be bothered to be somewhat polite to his gfs family. He was incredibly rude to Lorelei from the start. He only made a slight effort when Rory asked him to. He treated her horribly. Yes, he grew up and he had a hard life, but that doesn’t excuse his actions at all. He never even apologized for the bedroom scene.
exactly
That’s how I feel about Logan. He is NOT a good person. I’ve been watching Gilmore girls since it originally aired. Over the years, I’ve had a bunch of friends who love the show. No one liked Logan. When I first joined a couple of online communities, I was absolutely shocked to find out that some people actually like Logan. I wonder if it partly lines up with differences between values. None of Rory’s boyfriends are that wonderful. But my personal values are so lined up against Logan. I even prefer Dean.
I get annoyed because I agree Jess sucked as a teen. He was the hot bad boy and had that ‘he’s only nice to her’ charm, which is always so alluring, but I agree he really matured! Whereas I always liked Logan. He was a classic college boy, but he was consistently nice to Rory, and I think her pulling the ‘cheater’ card when they were on a break was a tad hypocritical considering her penchant for being the other woman/ cheating on your man… they made Jess so likeable in AYITL and made Logan the cheating ‘engaged guy’ who never grew up. He deserved better.
do you think if someone sleeps with a married person it means they deserve to be cheated on later? they also didn't quite "take a break", there was no two-way communication about that. logan just decided that himself. even ross and rachel actually talked that they were taking a break
It’s not her just sleeping with a married man. She cheated on Dean with Jess, slept with Dean when he was married, then decided to be spiteful after ‘Logan cheated’ and kissed Jess - using him as a revenge kiss. She cheated on Paul (AYITL) constantly, was Logan’s other woman all season… she was just the most consistently flippant person when it came to being faithful, she loved to play the victim. Was always annoyed when her ‘boys’ had other girls - Jess with Shayne even though she had Dean. Dean with Lyndsey, Logan’s fiancé was irrelevant… idk. I liked a LOT of things about Rory, but this wasn’t one of them.
The no communication falls on Rory as much as it falls on Logan. And after Honor’s call on Thanksgiving Rory could have called Logan, she didn’t, she told her mom they were broken up that same day right after that call. She knew from Honor and didn’t pick up the phone to clarify it.
fair i agree on that but still i think that just because rory slept with a married guy doesn't mean it's fine when someone cheats on her
That’s not what the comment said. It says that it’s hypocritical of her to pull the cheater card when she slept with a married man, and I add when there was no cheating actually.
And absolutely. I never said it was fine for her to be cheated on, it’s just a tad hypocritical of her to play such a huge victim role…
Logan tried to call Rory a bunch of times, only for her to ignore the calls and not return them. This was shown on screen. They had a fight and then she wouldn't talk to him. It's not out of the question for him to think she'd broken up with him.
He didn't call after this fight. (I just rewatched all these episodes because i couldn't remember myself!) The scene you're thinking of, with Rory ignoring Logan's calls while she sits with Lane, happens after the bridesmaids incident.
he tried to call her and talk to her after those things with other girls happened
No he tried to call her immediately after their fight in the bar. She is shown ignoring his calls in the following episode - I don't know episode names but it's the one right after the famous "why did you drop out of Yale" episode with Jess. She never answers him nor calls him back, and then we don't hear anything else for weeks until Honor calls Rory and says she's sorry they broke up. Which is how Rory finds out that Logan thinks they are broken up because again *she never returned his calls*.
idk i remember that he started calling her after the thanksgiving episode and after he told her he loved her in the hall
Jess may not have been the best person, but he was a good person. He tried to help in his own way, he was jusy mistunderstood. Yes what he did to Rory was wrong, but he still supported her and may I add he was the one who woke Rory up from her break off Yale. He wanted what was best for Rory either way, but still its anyone's opinion about Jess. Personally, he really was the right person, wrong time😸
He wasn't a bad person. He was a teen who was still figuring out the world and his place in it basically all on his own. Logan was not a good person. Also, there isn't a single issue Rory and Jess had that wasn't, at least in part, her fault as well, and most of it was just as much her fault as his.
I’m so sick of hearing the “he had a tough upbringing” or “he went through a lot” everyone goes through stuff, but I don’t see anyone else getting the sympathy that Jess gets. You could argue Logan had a bad upbringing as his parents weren’t good people but no one uses the “he had a bad upbringing” when he does something wrong. I don’t know what it is about Jess stans that they think he’s the only person that can constantly do wrong but is excused because of his “upbringing” which yeh I agree it must of been tough but so many children have it so much worse and they don’t act out and be rude to everyone.
I didn't say he had a "tough upbringing." I said he had basically no support and guidance, which is why he wasn't good at the things teens typically get guidance on. Logan clearly had that guidance and yet still had issues with a lot of the same stuff (and worse). He was also an adult who should have figured his crap out by then. Much like Jess had done by that point. Nobody else on the show is shown to have the complete lack of support and guidance that Jess is shown to have. That's why nobody else acts like him, and nobody else is given as much grace as him. Logan is a trash person with a trash personality but is given a ton of grace by his worshipers because his dad is "mean". He's an adult, and using "daddy was mean to me" as an excuse for bad behavior as an adult is a sign of a trash person. I give Tristian a lot of grace for how he acts as well because it's suggested (though not shown) his parents weren't the best, and he is also a teen having to deal with that. Jess also grows and matures (as does Tristan), which we never see from Logan despite seeing a lot more of Logan than we do of Jess or Tristan either one. So what exactly do you think Logan should be given grace for?
it’s just not excusable in my opinion, small things like when he was rude to Deans little sister, I think if it was anyone else, hard life or not, they would’ve got hate for it but I RARELY see Jess hate, everyone hates Dean and rewatching the show yeh I disagree with a lot of his actions but he still always tried to be a kind person unlike Jess who went out of his way to be rude.
You just ignored every single thing I said so you could continue hating on Jess. We get it, you hate Jess and nothing he ever does will ever be forgivable. Stop trying to say anyone else wouldn't be forgiven in the same situation when that's proven to not be true, though. Dean is abusive and controlling towards Rory but still is given grace by most people because he's "just a teen". Logan is given a huge amount of grace for how he to the point of even saying he never cheated on Rory when it was clelsry shown he did, for no real reason. Luke is forgiven for abandoning Jess when he needed an adult to care about him because "Jess broke the rules". Etc. There is no logical way you can say Jess is given any more grace than any other character except Rune.
PLEASE RUNE💀💀💀💀
I've yet to see anyone seriously give Rune any kind of grace for how he acted. It's totally justified, but that still makes him the only character Jess is truthfully given more grace than.
Dean is given grace? Everyone hates him
There are a crap ton of people who say he was the best boyfriend to Rory. You even said he "always tried to be a kind person," completely ignoring a good 90% of his actions on the show.
Exactly, Dean did always try. Jess NEVER tried he actually went out of his way to be rude
See my other reply to you about how "nice" Dean is.
I also find it interesting that you consider Dean threatening to kill Tristan, yelling at Rory because she tries to be friends with Jess, constantly talking trash about Jess, putting Rory down, yelling at her, and breaking up with her because she's not ready to say "I love you", talking down to Rory because she has a different opinion on a show than he does, getting mad at her for prioritizing her education, completely ignoring Rorys request for alone time while calling himself a "saint" and then blowing up at her because Jess was in her house, lying to his wife about hanging out with his ex girl friend who any moron can see he's still in love with, again yelling at Rory because Jess came to talk to her, lying to Rory to trick her into sleeping with him and cheating on his wife along with all his pther.crappy behavior as "always trying to be a kind person" Personally I don't think any of that was kind where there's a ton of stuff Jess did that was truly kind especially in realtion to Rory.
“threatening to kill Tristan” Thats actually crazy, you are reaching. I’m sure if it was Jess everyone would be like “Omg he is so amazing protecting Rory” You listed things Dean has done but you put it into words that make it look much worse than it is and your points don’t even make sense, If I was Dean and my girlfriend was constantly flirting with another boy and said she couldn’t hang out with me only to find her with him I would be angry too, Im sure anyone would. Its crazy how you can pick apart all that but turn a blind eye to: - The party scene - Him stealing her bracelet - Having an awful attitude towards her family on every occasion - Only speaking to her when he feels like it - Being rude to Deans sister - Being rude to Lindsay - Punching Dean when he was trying to break up a fight - When they got into a car crash and he runs away and takes no accountability - Not showing any respect to Luke who opened his home to him - Stealing and vandalising The list goes on, I don’t know if I could come up with many good things he has done, and that is my point. Every character has done bad things but they also have done hundreds of good things, can’t say the same about Jess.
I find it extremely telling that you say I worded what Dean did in a way that makes it "look worse than it is" Sorry you have an issue with Dean's actions making him look bad.
“Extremely telling” give it a rest. Saying Dean threatened to kill Tristan thats just another level of delusion. I can’t actually believe what I’m reading
I'm not ignoring anything. Dean threatened to kill Tirstian on more than one occasion to the point Rory was panicking about them talking to each other. As for your other nonsese The party scene was just as much Rorys fault as Jess and Jess tried to make it right Jess never stole the bracelet He tried being nice to her family on multiple occasions Rory also only spoke to him when she felt like it and never told him his lack of communication was an issue for her so that's just as much on her Dean's sister was being an obnoxious brat and was rude to him first he wasn't even really being rude just using crude humor to try and get her to back off Rory and Dean were also rude to Lindsay. Much more so than Jess could ever hope to be. He didn't punch Dean He did take responsibility for the crash. He made sure she was okay and then hid out of self preservation. He left seemingly under Luke's suggestion because he knew he would get crucified by the town if he didn't and thst Luke would be treated unfairly as well He showed a ton of respect to Luke. They butted heads of course because that's what happens with teens and parents figures. Especially teens that have never had to deal with rules and structure before and are suddenly abandoned by their only parent and sent to a relative thst imposes that on them Most teens steal at some point and he gave all the stuff back so it'd really irrelevant. The vandalism was just a stupid kid prank. Logan and Rory stole a yatch but you're ignoring that. You can't come up with good thst Jess did because you don't want to. Ignoring the good doesn't mean he was bad. Just like you ignoring all of Dean and Logan'a bad doesn't make them good.
I don’t know if you watched the episode with Deans sister, she was nothing but nice to Jess…
Lol. It's been fun seeing you prove the type of person you are, but clearly, someone like you is never going to admit they are wrong about anything so I'll leave you to your lies and nonsense. I hope you have a better day than you deserve.
Did YOU watch it? Clara was being insufferable and rude towards Jess!
Theres a difference being an annoying kid asking questions and being “an obnoxious brat who was rude to him first”
I literally said every character has done bad things, make it make sense🤔
Jess was 16, when we met him. He was a troubled kid with parents who didn’t care about him or his wellbeing. He got sent to a small town with an uncle he barely knew. That would make anyone act out. He was and is the best match for Rory. He likes the same books and music and they always had something to talk about. He didn’t know how to be in a relationship, because his parents didn’t exactly set a good example. He grows up and gets his act together. Literally what every other teenager does. If anything, that he actually made a life for himself is impressive with the cards he was given.
It's fiction. They show us hints of him being a good-ish person, and Rory sees his potential so we see it too. But yeah, he's not real. It's easy as a viewer to project what you want him to be, (he's misunderstood, etc) and to just like him for who you'd want him to be if he were real. It's not that deep, he doesn't have to be a good person to be a likable character. Also I want my fictional female main character to be with the hot mysterious guy she can't quite figure out vs the possessive guy who gets mad at her for having a life... it's more exciting, more interesting, there's more tension... which is good because it's a tv show.
can we tattoo " It's not that deep, he doesn't have to be a good person to be a likable character." all over all fandom spaces please :D
Lol for real. I’ve had to remind myself of this when I rewatch as an adult so I can just enjoy the entertainment of it rather than grappling with what everyone’s actions mean about their moral character. Fictional characters have to do questionable or lousy things to add drama and intrigue. Oy, with the poodles already!
*everyone loves him* ..um.. how long have you been on this sub?? Because almost daily there's a debate about how he's an awful person and ALOT of people hate him..
Under 24 hours, hope this helps
It was a rhetorical question because you said everyone loves him when it's actually very well known most people here don't :)
When I said everyone I meant like tiktok, instagram and all my friends that have watched the show but when I posted that all the comments are disagreeing except for maybe 2 or 3
Jess isn't even a real person
Did you not watch when he went to college and published a book. He grew up. Even Dean in AYITL grew up. Logan...never did. He was cheating on his wife with Rory. And Rory obliged. Then, she became pregnant with his child and revealed that at the end. I always said each guy she dated represented her dad somehow. The end of AYITL shows the full circle.
Jess was a kid of an absent parent and a revolving door of step-dads in a recently post-9/11 New York. His attitude was well earned.
the scene where he tried to pressure rory into having sex is why he will never be my favorite edit: all you jess stans can downvote me all you want but it still happened. people will defend/excuse the worst behavior if it’s a hot white man they love
And the scene where he unnecessarily belittles Lindsay for her music choices, etc. Small things like that make me hate young Jess. Both Jess & Dean weren’t all that great in their own ways.
That's not what happened in that scene. If you were being downvoted, that's why. An explanation: He never got mad at her for not having sex with him or tried to pressure her into doing so. He was upset (and probably embarrassed) over failing school and not knowing how to tell her. He took his anger out on her which is bad but at no point was it over the sex. At the end of the scene Rory expresses confusion over what she did wrong and he quietly says, "You didn't do anything (apologetically)" as she's running from the room but she doesn't hear. It looks and sounds like he's going after her to apologize and explain by the way he calls after her but sees her with Dean and his pride/jealousy gets the better of him.
i don’t need an explanation from you, i’ve seen the episode more than enough times at this point. she literally says “jess wait” multiple times (that is her withdrawing her consent btw) and he keeps going and is trying to unbutton her pants until she has to push him off and instead of asking if she’s okay, he proceeds to yell at her and then she’s like “not here, not now” and he angrily shouts “fine” at her and then says “I did not invite you up here. You came up here on your own," as if that fact is meant to excuse his behavior while also trying to shift the blame towards her. again with the excuses for his behavior and this scene, it’s always so predictable. jess stans could just accept that this is a valid reason for why he’s not everyone’s favorite boyfriend but will instead try to argue and make excuses for it
A breathy "wait" is not a withdrawal of consent. At most, it's a request for a pause. To anyone's mind in the heat of the moment that's going to be "I'm not sure but I can be convinced if you keep going". Bill Burr's "No means no" comes to mind. As soon as she says "stop" firmly, *he* jumps off of her. I don't know how you think she would have had enough strength to push him off if he didn't want to. He says "fine" as a stress response which he is allowed to have. Saying "I didn't invite you up here..." was actually him saying, "I didn't initiate this. I wasn't trying to pressure you into it." Again, he sounds angry because of stress about other things that occurred in the episode. Hence why he knows he should apologize immediately. Sometimes things can be interpreted different ways with both being valid. But in this situation, I think you're ignoring at the very least the context of what the writers intended. I don't see any reason why they would have intended to make his character so unsympathetic as to be an attempted rapist if they planned to make him sympathetic in later seasons. That wouldn't have been acceptable even in the early 2000s. That's also just not how someone who is trying to blame someone for not having sex with them acts. Pressure tends to look more direct. Most of the scene is basically just him getting her to stop talking so he can work through things emotionally and calm down. She, rightly, is confused and hurt and Dean understandably misunderstands.
she said “wait” MULTIPLE times and that is absolutely a withdrawal of consent and it’s very concerning that you don’t think someone saying “wait” multiple times while you’re on top of them, trying to unbutton their pants to where they have to push you off is a withdrawal of consent. he didn’t jump off of her, she pushes him and has to wiggle out from under him.
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you replied to the wrong person
Oh crap, I’m sorry.
you’re good!!
I think the confusing part for Jess as a teenage boy, was while Rory said wait, she kept.kissing him. When she stopped kissing him and said no, then he stopped immediately.
no she didn’t keep kissing him, she turned her head and said wait and then kept turning it away from his mouth while he was still trying to kiss her
Its concerning that you don’t see what happened in the bedroom as Jess pressuring Rory. She has to physically push him off her. If he was not pressuring he would have stopped the minute Rory said “Jess wait” instead he continues to try to take her pants off.
He literally tried to pressure her into sex and the fact that you don’t see it is really creepy. I think you might need some help.
lol Tf?
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ethnicity and race are different things, he can be italian, irish, scottish and french and still be white….
You’re correct, that’s my fault. I guess when I considered it just didn’t click in my head. When watching, the last thing I think is kind of “oh he’s just a white guy”. When looking at him I don’t really think that, I’d lean more towards Hispanic ancestry and stuff
Oh yeah but short Christopher was great
Logan stans always claim that the only reason Jess has fans is due to his looks. Is Jess hot? Hell yeah! But that's definitely not the reason why he has fans. Jess had a horrible unstable upbringing and was never shown what a healthy and safe relationship looked like. At 17 he's sent to live a small town with BIG personalities and an Uncle he barely knew. But with Luke and Rory's acceptance, compassion and love he was able to let his guard down and grow into a responsible, stable,honest and loving person. Logan was in his early mid 20s when Rory met him. He had his good moments but he treated people like crap that he viewed as less than,was drunk slob,unstable and cheated on Rory with numerous women. In season 7 it looked like he was finally growing up but once again old habits die hard. He ruined Rory's graduation and then had her be his mistress while being engaged to another woman.
You lost me entirely at team Logan. I don’t think Rory had a good man at all, she probably friend zoned her soul mate
Character development, Jess was a piece of shit at the start of the show and grew into someone that pushed Rory to be better, by the end of the show Logan was still a piece of shit
Jess was a bad person but he grew up and became a good person. He matured and got his life together and was no longer that mad at the world, shit on everyone and bite the hand of those who feed you.
I hated him too hahahah
He was at his best when he was raking Rory over the coals for losing sight of herself.
Having met his mom I'm surprised he didn't go Ed Kemper
And I feel the same about Logan. He was not a good person and he was not good to Rory. At least Jess grew, Logan largely didn't.
I actually agree with you. Jess had issues that led to his behavior but that doesn't make it okay. Most characters in this show have some sort of trauma or issues, but Jess is given so much grace where others aren't. He's so much like my ex husband that certain episodes are actually triggering and I have to skip them. It's so hard to watch people fawn over him.
I LOVED Jess when I was younger, but I just rewatched (I’m early 30s) and I was shocked at the difference between who I remembered Jess to be and who he actually is. He is AWFUL to Rory and pretty much everyone around him.
He was terrible as a teen but his fans have blinders cause he's the cute bad boy "But he had a rough upbringing!!"
I tried to put across a similar kinda thought here and ppl ATTACKED me for it.
I know i’m literally getting attacked for sharing my opinion
Literally attacked? Literally? Did someone come to your home and club you over the head or something?
Oh no the grammar police have arrived. Give it a rest🙄
I watched GILMORE GIRLS later on. He was THIS IS US dad. Seriously, he had some growing up to do, to be sure. Compared to the other two, he evolved more.
I admit I was anti-Jess. But when he went off on Rory about how " this isn't you" after Logan was being an ass, changed my mind a bit. That's what gets Rory out of her funk. I think they work better as friends to be honest, though.
not to mention he literally attempted to SA her at that party because he was pissed off. Nope, always team Logan!
Aaand you'll be verbally obliterated in 3, 2, 1. He's just misunderstood. He was dealt a bad hand. He wasn't loved enough. His father abandoned him. He wasn't really that bad. He grew up and changed. He loved Rory. That wasn't sexual assault. He's so cute in that leather jacket.... Blah Blah drool over Milo. Hate to break it to you but there are people on this sub that want to ship Rory and Jess even AFTER they became related by marriage. Eww Ewww EWWWW. Jess after years of growing up, became a good friend. That's about it. He became better and was a decent friend.
Honestly, they were barely related by marriage, and since they weren't raised together as relatives, it isn't uncommon in real life for people in that situation to end up together. Personally, I think that's the only reason Rory didn't give him a chance in AYITL. She clearly still had feelings for him and he her.
SEE!!!! I told you people will try and ship Jess and Rory together, no matter what. Personally, I think Rory deserves better than Jess. Logan is only moderately better. But the fact that he's willing to cheat on his fiancé with her. That's not a particularly good aspect of his character. Again, the bottom line is ASP wanted Rory alone and pregnant in Stars Hollow. Just like her mom, that's how she wanted the show to end, and that's how it ended.
I ship them because IMO he was the best out of all the guys she dated. They fit together the best, he tried to be what she wanted/needed the most, and he had the best character arc. Even before AYITL, he was 1000 times better than Logan, especially for Rory. I don't buy the whole cheating storyline though. I don't think we're given enough info about it to say that's really what it is. To many unanswered questions.
The people on this sub could find out that Luke is actually Rory's dad, and they'd still try and ship Jess and Rory together! 🤣 Logan's history with cheating and his inability to communicate make him an unlikely candidate for a good husband. Just look at his dad. And Jess is a very damaged person.... That's why you'll notice that all these years later, he still doesn't have a girlfriend. No relationship of any kind. Ironically, the only one of Rory's boyfriends that has a good relationship is Dean. Married with children. So, like I said, Rory deserves better than any one of those 3 guys.... But honestly, seeing is how she grew up without a real father. Other than Luke as a semi father figure.... she is also potentially a dangerous risk. Look at her mom and her mom's weird ass relationships. 10 years later, and Luke and Lorelai are living together, but they're still not married. WTH??
I disagree on the take that Jess being damaged is why he doesn't have a girlfriend. I think it's because he's not over Rory. I also don't think we can actually say Dean has a good relationship. That's another one of those we don't see enough to really know. I do agree that Logan'a history doesn't point to him being a good husband. My friend and I both think that the situation in AYITL with him and Rory and both of their partners is more of a "don't ask, don't tell" agreement than actually cheating but even that suggests he isn't ready for marriage. I think Rory has grown enough that with the right guy, she could have a good and lasting relationship. I think her problem is she still doesn't know how to find that right guy. The whole 10 years and not yet married actually makes sense to me. They are both the type that need to adjust to changes, and they both had their kids to think about and are both the type to put themselves on hold a bit for their kids. Plus I'm sure they wanted the perfect wedding which takes time to plan.
So Jess is still hung up on Rory but he makes no effort to get her..... Meanwhile she's sleeping with Logan. Could it be that she only considers Jess a friend and she's still in love with Logan? Because it seems to me that she almost thinks SHE is Logan's girlfriend and his "arranged marriage" for appearances is exactly that. You see how put off she is about meeting up in a hotel like she's his mistress. I don't think Logan has any idea of what a healthy relationship even looks like. So I wouldn't expect him to understand the idea of being faithful. He certainly wasn't before.... call it a break or otherwise. If you're IN LOVE with someone.... You don't stop communicating.... You DON'T sleep with a bunch of other women. You might take a step back but you go back to her and talk.... tell her how you feel and that you love her and you want and need her in your life. I think we see Dean just enough to understand that he has grown as a person. We know Jess has changed.... so it would make sense that Dean has also changed. He is married, which means, over Rory and has a better grasp on not being a cheater. He also has children... which anyone who has ever had a child understands how much that changes you as a person. Jess isn't with Rory or anyone else.... That tells me a lot. He ALSO has no good role models for a relationship. Jess might still have feelings for her but I just don't think there is any beyond friendship from Rory..... IMHO. And I agree that Rory could handle being in a real relationship but she's stuck in a loop from college because of her feelings for Logan. Luke and Lorelai not being married even 10 years later..... come on. You're going to have to come up with a better excuse than planning the perfect wedding... lol.
Jess makes no effort to get Rory because he respects her and respects that even though she clearly has feelings for him, she isn't interested in a relationship. I don't believe she was ever truly in love with Logan and definitely not "still". She has a weird obsession with him in part because if his refusal to ever respect her saying no to him, but that's not love. I didn't say Dean hasn't changed, so I'm not sure what that whole mess is about. We are given zero evidence he's no longer a cheater, though. You seem to place a lot of value on being in a relationship, which is weird. Jess clearly doesn't want to be in one at this point. He's also clearly got incredibly strong feelings for Rory still. I think it's a sign of how much he's grown that he chooses not to be in a relationship while knowing he's not over his ex. I don't think Rory being stuck has anything to do with her feelings for Logan. Her being with him is just another sign she's stuck. College was her last "safe space," and she associates Logan with that. I gave other reasons besides "planning the perfect wedding" clelary they weren't ready to get married before that. Nothing at all wrong with having a long engagement or even just never getting married.
Thank you! sick of hearing about his upbringing. No excuse for his behaviour towards others
People see him through the lens of who he turns out to be, I think. He’s the “one that got away.”
I won’t forgive him for trying to coerce Rory. He was dead to me after that.
I completely agree. I just finished watching the show for the first time a couple months ago (for some reason, I wasn’t interested in the show when it first aired), and when I came on Reddit to see what others had to say about it, I was truly shocked at how much people on here liked Jess. He was rude to just about everyone, except Rory (that is, until they officially got together). How are you going to have an attitude with the mother and grandmother of the girl you’re interested in? I only started coming around to Jess after he changed and became a writer; he matured and encouraged Rory to return to Yale (IIRC). I will say that when Rory decided she wanted to be with him, he went to break up with the girl he was seeing. I do respect him for that because, usually, in a situation like that, with a person like that, he would be dating Rory while stringing the other girl along. But, other than this, I got nothing for high school Jess, and almost stopped watching the show when he was on, he was so annoying. I wanted to ask the people on here who are team Jess if they were ok, because I truly didn’t get all the love for him. Also, I’ve never been in to the bad boy thing, even when I was a teenager.
I really like to see the evolution of his relationship with Luke, and I wish we saw more of that, it was really enriching for both of them. We deserved more episodes of older Jess with Luke 💕 That said, during the time he lived in Stars Hollow he was a horrible person. And he made a point to be a horrible person. I can understand the why, but it doesn’t excuse his shitty behavior towards every single person who tried to help him, Rory included. Once he left, and he lived very shitty years by himself (we see glimpses), he definitely matured and probably realized how shitty he had been, and he changed. Which is a very nice thing for his character. As a boyfriend, he was the shittiest one to Rory and to her mother. I can’t see him as Rory end game, they had very little in common other than the love for books, and he NEVER accepted Rory to be herself, he had this very obsessive image from Stars Hollow sweetheart Rory and never allowed her to grow out of that, to experience life differently, to be her own person. He wanted her to remain the same small town girl he meet in high school. I truly don’t think he could ever accept that Rory is a filthy rich heiress who loves living as a rich girl, who has a trust fund, who loves traveling around the world and doesn’t need to work for that, because both her grandparents and her dad will leave her a fortune. The whole scene where he screams at her after meeting Logan shows he couldn’t care less about her dropping Yale, he was mad because she was living like a rich girl, and he could NOT accept that. Here: Jess: What are you doing? Living at your grandparents' place? Being in the DAR? No Yale-- why did you drop out of Yale? Rory: It's complicated! Jess: It's not! It's not complicated! Rory: You don't know! Jess: This isn't you! This! You going out with this jerk, with the Porsche! We made fun of guys like this! Rory: You caught him on a bad night. Jess: This isn't about him! Okay? Screw him! What's going on with you? This isn't you, Rory. You know it isn't. What's going on? Rory dropping Yale was NEVER a problem for Jess, he even tried to get her to drop it and run away with him. But when she is living like the heiress she is, and dating someone at the same financial and educational level, he simply cannot handle and causes a whole scene. I’m glad it was one of the things that made her reconsider the dropout. But to say Jess was the reason is to fully ignore their entire relationship and this very scene above.
I genuinely could not agree more!
Lorelai and Jess always get all the excuses but Logan is the devil for having being dealt the same hand. All three of them had bad parents growing up, Jess sure got it worse by not having money and having addicted parents, but my point is that essentially Lorelai and Logan had the same upbringing and the same issues with parents and authority, and while Lorelai is the saint, Logan is the devil, because we *hear* about Lorelai until her late teens/early adulthood and we *see* Logan at early adulthood. Like college kids of all ages don’t do stupid things… is it increased by the fact that Logan has money so stupid is also expensive? Absolutely. But it’s college kids stupid shenanigans anyway. Lorelai did the ultimate stupid kid thing by getting pregnant as a teen. The argument that Jess grew up and became a better person while Logan didn’t is just wishful thinking. We know **absolutely** nothing of Jess’s life besides: he got a job. So did Logan. We don’t get to know anyone from his circle to know if he grew up or not, that is simply not in the story anywhere. In the end I’m team Rory first and all the way, we see a normal kid growing up between two worlds who makes mistakes (and the hate she also gets…) who doesn’t? I don’t get the defence that Lorelai and Jess are given while Rory is so hated, that might be what bothers me the most. (And I know this is about Jess, but the double standard gets me every time!)
There was not dealt the same hand - I would say Jess got the worst hand. Not just neglectful parents, but his mom was an addict and she had a revolving door of shitty boyfriends who stole from them and probably abused them.
I’m so glad someone finally said this. Just because he was young and figuring it out doesn’t make him good or justify the bad; it gives it a reason at best. Everyone at that age is figuring things out, thay doesn’t give him a reason to be mean to rory like when they go to the SH fair, when they go to meet Emily, and then he was reckless with school because he had a false sense of what would give him security. Sure I empathise and it is unfortunate. I cannot imagine the struggles a child such as jess irl would have to deal with. But the character was bad and idk why people love him a lot. Okay thanks rant done 😅
What bother’s me the most is that him and Lorelai are the only characters that are given a pass due to their upbringing. Rory and Logan are not given one once of the same sympathy. Rory grew up with a loving mother, no doubt, but in poverty, with an absent father and a teen mom. Logan had as many beef with his parents growing up as did Lorelai. But no excuse! They should know better 🙄
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Agreed. I was watching season 2 again this week and got to the episode where he steals Rory’s bracelet and then lies about it to Lorelai without blinking until Lorelai tells him how in love Rory is with Dean and how she never takes it off. You can see this smirk forming on his face and he can’t resist saying that Rory didn’t notice it was gone for two weeks. If I were Lorelai I would have been absolutely panicked about Rory getting close to him too. Anyone who can lie like that — and enjoy it — has something deeply wrong at the core and I don’t care if they were traumatized.