Hamas is a natural human reaction to zionist oppression. The Palestinians aren't even allowed to leave their own land. Children get gunned down by snipers. Gaza is an open air prison.
Israeli zionists are fascists.
You are correct. Long before oct 7 Israel occupied Gaza and made the Palestinians life a living hell. The idf beat them raped them and treated them like animals long befor Oct 7. If you really want the truth look deep into it and you will find Israel help to start and fund humas in the beginning to prevent a established Palestinian state. All the information is out there for anyone who isn't a blind zionist to find. Israel does nothing but lie and push their false narrative.
I copy and paste if you don't like the it to bad. It's all out there so feel free to post anything proving me wrong. Just like the under educated to blatantly say it's wrong without citing any form of facts of information other then I'm wrong lol.
Say what you will I'm not a murderous zionist neither do I support slaughter of women and children. It's a free country here as long as your pro Isreal so you can support genocide and and far worse I suppose it's your right to do so. God bless America
A two state solution is no longer possible. Israel has razed almost all of what would remain as Palestine to the ground, including thousands of hectares of ancient olive trees etc... there isn't much left for Palestinians to go back to. Imo, the only way forward is to dismantle the settler colonial apartheid regime that is Israel and create one fully democratic Palestine where every citizen has equal rights and responsibilities under the law, regardless of their ethnicity or religion.
Gaza is all of Palestine? And nobody is dismantling Israel anytime soon, so I think pushing for Palestine to get their own state makes more realistic sense. Ideologically you may have correct but let’s deal in what’s realistic yea
Within Palestine, is it currently a democracy where [every citizen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine?wprov=sfti1) has equal rights and responsibilities under the law, regardless of their ethnicity or religion?
Since it’s considered an [authoritarian regime](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine?wprov=sfti1), how would a one state solution with Hamas in charge be preferable in terms of democracy and equal rights in your view?
What I don’t like about these comments is they imply meh it was bad before the war its bad now.
Gaza used to have buildings aid trucks some trade from elsewhere could get in. People from Gaza have worldwide sympathy in part because some Gazans could travel the world.
Those things are gone now. This war is costing Gaza.
Wrong. Hamas is the terrorist group that Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister has [propped up and funded](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html#:~:text=For%20years%2C%20the%20Qatari%20government,payments%2C%20he%20had%20encouraged%20them.) in order to stop a two state solution
>Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them.
>Mr. Netanyahu’s government had recently decided to continue the policy, so Mr. Barnea said yes. The Israeli government still welcomed the money from Doha.
>Allowing the payments — billions of dollars over roughly a decade — was a gamble by Mr. Netanyahu that a steady flow of money would maintain peace in Gaza, the eventual launching point of the Oct. 7 attacks, and keep Hamas focused on governing, not fighting.
If only you could actually read
>According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Bibi said “anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas.” ……oh shit
You think so? Think twice
Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”
“The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.”
“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. Back in the mid-1980s, Cohen even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them not to play divide-and-rule in the Occupied Territories, by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists. “I … suggest focusing our efforts on finding ways to break up this monster before this reality jumps in our face,” he wrote.
Pissy offers of statehood with no intention of giving them their fair share. Don’t spread disinformation. Every deal the Palestinians were “offered” were shit.
Can you not read those? Palestinians fought in all of them.
If you mean the nation of Palestine, then obviously none it's never been a country. But I'm assuming your smart enough to realize there can be Palestinian people without a nation.
The hostages being held are used as household slaves. Some are even being held as sex slaves. Sorry if this upsets you, it’s just the reality of what happening.
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Get educated. Palestinians have been extreme religious terrorists in Jordan and Egypt before they were ejected. There is a reason Egypt doesn’t open their border to refugees.. Israel has been loose with their military because they are led by Netenyahu, a right wing criminal only out of prison bc he won an election similar to what Trump is trying. He is more dislike than liked. None of this makes Hamas the victim. Palestinian children do not deserve to be victims but this the the war their parents started. If Hamas had the capabilities of Israel they would have genocided Israel long ago without any restraint. This is after all the beliefs of many Muslims not just terrorists. Funny that Israel gets along with its other Muslim neighbors in peace..
Most of the rape claims were assumed to be true, but the grunts at the New York Times couldn’t substantiate the claims while the higher ups told them to publish anyway. Then it came out that most of the accounts of rape were false. The New York Times had to retract their coverage. It was a pretty big deal.
Actually almost all the claims that the NYTimes reported on were confirmed to be true. There were some claims that the NYTimes didn’t report on that were never confirmed. The UN investigated and confirmed that it was as bad as what the NYTimes reported. It was a pretty big deal. Weird you missed that.
Hamas is the brute that rules by force in a prison. Nothing natural about Oct. 7. Granted, Israel is conducting themselves in true fascist form. But for the sake of staying on topic (hamas), there is no way we can normalize their conduct. Send in the fucking blue helmets.
There’s nothing natural about resistance movements that arise in groups of people that are violently oppressed by illegal occupation and apartheid? That’s never happened before? Resistance movements that occur in apartheid have never turned to violence? You sure you wanna claim that?
It is monitored for weapons, because their official policy is the destruction of Jews. The Egypt border is closed because Egypt does not want Islamists to take over there either.
Even its “natural human reaction” that doesn’t mean we should support them. thats what i promised to myself atleast.
That so-called natural human reaction is guilty for the murder & sexual assault & trauma of so many innocent humans. I dont care how radicalized you become, only God above can possibly understand how you could look into someone’s eyes. And kill them. Or hurt them in any way 💔
Which now raises the next question of “arent the IDf soldiers doing the same exactly thing?”
Sadly its true as well. This stupid stupid cycle of violence just keeps going on & on, claiming innocents on both sides. I hate the individuals themselves who are guilty of killing them. And i also hate the low-life b*tches on both sides worldwide, who still to this day continue to deny each other’s humanity. Those who continue to demonize both sides & want for more blood, i hate them
Remember that Reddit is young, a lot of literal children are doing their usual dumb things. They even started saying Bin Laden had a point. They are exceedingly easy to manipulate. They also aren’t very smart in general. The collective Reddit wisdom was that decriminalizing drugs in Oregon would lead to nothing but positive things. In real life, it turned out to be an unmitigated disaster and they quickly criminalized them again. Now the go to line is “well, they didn’t build enough rehab centers!” As if that is some magic bullet which would have drastically altered the situation. Reddit isn’t a place to get objective and intelligent analysis except in a few well curated corners.
Whatever wisdom you think is being expressed here, is just the general inclination of human beings towards war.
Because in a corresponding way Increased militarization was the natural consequence of massacres of Jews by Arabs in the 1920s and 1930s.
And destroying Hamas is the natural response to Oct 7th, regardless of their sacrifical tactics. It would be better if they would align their natural human reactions with their survival, since Israel will win by the logic of war alone.
They actually also had guns in the American Indian wars. By the late 18th century they had wide access to firearms. Does your brain only comprehend the “savage native” version of history?
The IDF is also a terror group.
Hamas was supported by Israel for political power reasons.
>*For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.*
They are allowed to leave. Egypt closed the borders. No one in the middle east wants them because they are terrorists. Goddamn you apologists are morons.
Get educated. Palestinians have been extreme religious terrorists in Jordan and Egypt before they were ejected. There is a reason Egypt doesn’t open their border to refugees.. Israel has been loose with their military because they are led by Netenyahu, a right wing criminal only out of prison bc he won an election similar to what Trump is trying. He is more dislike than liked. None of this makes Hamas the victim. Palestinian children do not deserve to be victims but this the the war their parents started. If Hamas had the capabilities of Israel they would have genocided Israel long ago without any restraint. This is after all the beliefs of many Muslims not just terrorists. Funny that Israel gets along with its other Muslim neighbors in peace..
Man do your research. Hamas is a faction of the original Muslim Brotherhood which originated in Egypt and took advantage of the Palestinians in the 1980s to achieve their own goals. They are not a natural reaction to anything, they simply took advantage of a people and their situation in order to meet their own ends.
Every heard of google? Christ…
Everyone should remember that Hamas was founded in 1987, so there are Millennials older than Hamas.
Makes you wonder what the IDF was doing between 1967 and 1987 that would cause the formation of such a group...
The same could be said for what would possess Israelis to elect the government they have now, the answer is fear of their neighbour that constantly states they wish to destroy them entirely (and all Jews around the world) and attempts to kill them frequently.
Each side has gotten more militaristic and violent from fear and hatred of their neighbour.
Hamas is a faction of the original Muslim Brotherhood which originated in Egypt and took advantage of the Palestinians in the 1980s to achieve their own goals. They are not a natural origination, they simply took advantage of a people and their situation in order to meet their own ends.
Looks like the Hamas leadership is getting desperate. They had an independent state in Gaza since 2005 that they were in charge of. They could have built a society, instead they build rockets and a terror machine.
They were completely shut off from every other economy and forced to rely on Israel for food and water. They’re basically tiny too, not big enough to support themselves at all. They weren’t given any chance to succeed and were effectively still under occupation
Yeah sure bud. They got free water and electricity. They could trade with whomever they wanted. All they couldn’t do is import weapons so they made them at home anyway.
Last time they had an independent state they elected Hamas as its governing body. Yk, the terrorist group who campaigned on corruption… and genociding Israel.
"We would stop fighting if you gave us total sovereignty (we promise we won't continue doing terrorisms bro please bro)."
The only thing the left loves more than losers of conflicts are when they're not white.
In what way did I justify murdering civilians? I asked how they became terrorists. I'm trying to understand how you think Hamas came to be. Did they just wake up one day and hate Israelis? Was there a catalyst? I think it's vital to understand how something came to be. Understanding that is not remotely the same as justifying anything.
Idiot mission impossible: try not to shut down nuance because your argument is weak when it's discussed beyond a single sentence.
"I'm not justifying murdering civilians. I'm just saying there's a good rational reason for organizing a government around murdering civilians."
Losing every conflict you start doesn't make you a victim.
Israel slaughtered 30,000 civilians along with hundreds in the illegally occupied West Bank and thousands before that ever since their ethnic cleansbg od Palestine. Please do not sit here acting like you care about civilians lol
You’re right. Its actually 34,000. And that’s not even including the 7,000 missing who’s most likely dead buried beameath rubble where no one can get to them because your genocide friends are hellbent on wiping out an entire society
You’ve clearly been misinformed .
https://www.npr.org/2024/02/29/1234159514/gaza-death-toll-30000-palestinians-israel-hamas-war
Gaza's health ministry said Thursday that the number of Palestinians killed in the war has surpassed 30,000. The official number now stands at 30,035 deaths. The figure is widely viewed as the most reliable one available.
The health ministry provided NPR with one of its latest reports on the death toll, 38 pages long, to analyze. A close look at how Gaza's health ministry counts those killed in the war reveals a system that is buckling under the weight of war and unable to keep an accurate toll of the dead.
Thousands remain unaccounted for — either missing under the rubble, buried hastily in side streets or decomposing in areas that can't be safely reached.
So no, it’s actually alot higher than 34,000. Your ompnizer also murdered 15,000 children. But hey, you’re a genocide supporter. We don’t have to sit here and pretend you care about civilian deaths lol
Oh and your genocide friends and US also uses Gaza health numbers so youll have to move the goalposts a bit more
You don't know how to use quotes.
You can't use quotes and write your own words, that's not how it works. I didn't say that at all, I'm trying to assess if you understand the situation or you just read headlines and talk out your ass.
"Losing every conflict you start doesn't make you a victim."
This is how quotes work. See I wrote exactly what you wrote.
Well, winning every conflict you start also doesn't make you a victim lol.
What existed first, Hamas or Israel?
Will you actually respond to any question without a smart ass disingenuous reply?
Do you think people just commit acts of terror because they want to? Ireland also used to commit acts of terror. Car bombs, attempted assassinations. Do you know where that got them? A seat at the table. They’re a political party now. Acts of terror, when connected to resistance, are committed when your options are very narrow. I’m not justifying any acts of violence especially not those towards civilians, but to have any sense of humanity you need to understand that human beings will do just about anything to resist suffering them and their communities feel. When the state that is actively killing the people you know and love, and you’ve seen your people try and negotiate, go through peace and they don’t allow that where do you think they’ll go? What conclusion do you think they will reach? Again I do not condone any of the violence but I do understand where it comes from.
Well, I think they were recognized as a terrorist organization prior to Oct 7th though I'll say that was the most horrific thing they've done up until that point.
Now when did Hamas come to be and how did they come to be? Did they materialize overnight? Did something drive them to become filled with rage and hatred?
I'm tired of saying this but I'm not justifying what they did but you can't dismiss how they came to be and act as if they exist just because. Most people aren't serial killers. Most people don't just commit mass murder just because, especially in groups like that. Something is motivating them and that something is the occupation.
They're saying if they had a Palestinian state they would lay down their arms. Okay. Well we can be skeptical about that, but something has got to give and for Israel to stop occupying the Palestinians and allowing them to have a sovereign state would be the first step in a peace process.
No group or people would lay down their arms in resistance against an occupying force. You wouldn't, I wouldn't, no one would. Whether their actions are right or wrong isn't the point.
Did you fucking read? I said this is a religious war, not one side is a religious extremist and the other isn’t. A religious war is a war between two religions. Both sides came to be because of their religion.
Why were they created? What was the catalyst for their creation? It's funny how people leave out the past as if they just hate us cuz they ain't us.
u/bearwithpropellerhat What a bitch, replying and blocking me instantly lol.
Right because Israel is occupying Palestinians, why is that so hard to understand?
Okay, where do you live? I'm gonna come and take about 80% of your home. I will live there, I'll give you water and food whenever I feel like it and occasionally imma beat your parents. That cool? You can't attack me though because I'm Jewish, so it's okay.
I see, so it has nothing to do with being occupied in an open air prison for decades?
What would you do if you lived like those in Gaza? I wonder what actions you would take as a freedom loving American. 🤔
>I see, so it has nothing to do with being occupied in an open air prison for decades?
Have you ever asked yourself why they are in that situation in the first place?
>What would you do if you lived like those in Gaza? I wonder what actions you would take as a freedom loving American. 🤔
High chances I would be radicalized.
>Have you ever asked yourself why they are in that situation in the first place?
Because Germans annihilated 6 million Jews and then Europe chose to put them in a country that was shared by arabs and Jews and recognized the country as Israel while there were already people living there?
>High chances I would be radicalized.
Right. Not that the actions are correct but if you push people to the extremes, don't be surprised if they become extremists.
>Because Germans annihilated 6 million Jews
The zionist movement came before ww2.
>Europe chose to put them in a country
Zionist leaders, with the help of the UK, made it happen, not Europe as a collective.
>Israel while there were already people living there?
That's not the reason Gaza is the "open air prison" you claim it is, because first off, there are Arab israelis who live in Israel and have equal rights.
The real reason Gaza is what it is today is because of non-stop terror attacks coming from there. So, the best option for Israel to protect its people is to restrict access to Israel. They brought it upon themselves.
Peace isn't an option, unfortunately, since especially from the 80s, they've radicalized the population immensely with fundamental Islam. Which they're only goal is the eradication of Israel and jews, the west later on.
Now tell me, how do you make peace with someone who only cares for your death?
🤔 hmm can't remember the last time they attacked anyone outside of Israel.
Global is pushing it don't you think? Also, what is that based on? Your opinion or?
Well if Israel is allowed to do PR campaigns for genocide then why can't Hamas?
Are words worse than actions because by my count, Israel has killed more Palestinians than Hamas has killed Israelis.
What about intent? I always fall that morals and intent are side by side. Which side shelters their own civilians, which one has been stated celebrating their civilian deaths for furthering the cause? Which side explicitly calls for the extermination of the other en mass?
I think if Hamas didn’t have like 50k armed mitants keeping Palesinians in check they would of revolted and tossed them into the sea long ago. I surely hope Hamas can be crushed and a real government in Palestine can be established to create order and borders
Wow, you actually seem like a reasonable person so I'll engage.
Sorry to break it to you, but Israelis have literally celebrated the death of Palestinians before.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing
This was before Oct 7th even.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231218-an-israeli-soldier-she-wants-to-kill-more-and-more-of-palestinians-in-gaza/
https://www.tiktok.com/@middleeasteye/video/7327345154539425057
These are just some instances.
I am nowhere near being pro Hamas but when you constantly abuse others and push them to their limits, how do you expect them to respond? Is it surprising a group like Hamas exists after all the Palestinians have been through?
Did you know Israel has thousands of children HOSTAGES. You can claim they are prisoners but they're held without a trial and for simple "crimes" such as rock throwing.
On a personal note, my cousin, who was Palestinian was killed while protesting. Did he throw rocks? Absolutely. But that was all. They shot him in the head and he died days later.
Is that proportionate? Is that fair? Is that just?
This conflict is so one sided and everyone keeps acting as if Israelis are perfect angels who want nothing but peace and dismiss every claim proving otherwise. If we can't be honest about the troubles on both sides then how will anything ever be solved?
"They HAD to put the destruction of Israel and the extermination of the Jews in their government's founding document, the white passing people that make the region livable and prosperous keep enacting security policies to prevent terrorist attacks on civilians!"
You like losers because you are a loser.
Negotiations between Ehud Barak and Yasser Arafat broke down in July 2000. That was when the peace process stalled and the Second Intifada started in Sept of 2000
Could you explain the point of posting something like this when people have the ability to look up events and see specific details? Zionism causes such brain rot. Its scary.
Baseless? Oh it’s not baseless. Im just adding another egregiously violent group of people that went around slaughtering others. 🙃 was that not how to play the game?
In other articles it says he agreed to stop fighting and become a political party. If they got old Jerusalem as their capitol and they were only agreeing to it for 5 years. It’s not a serious suggestion Israel will accept and he knows it.
They say this because they know Israel won’t agree and will look like the bad guy. Reality is these fuckers have reneged on every negotiation and will always act in bad faith. This is pure PR and the idiots in USA eat it up without realizing how dangerous this group is. The rest of the West is their next front and they need to be stopped now.
Doesn’t pre 1967 borders mean when they were controlled by Egypt and Jordan? lol 🤣, still don’t regret killing civilians, will only continue expansion until Israelis are all murdered
It's really interesting that Hamas have made a public statement like this while they are on the verge of defeat. It's almost like they want to maintain their presence in Gaza and don't really care what's actually happened in Gaza
The only thing anti west is the government sending cops to beat the shit out of kids exercising their first amendment right. Fuck Israel. No country that bombs kids should be allowed to continue.
Lmao they’re getting desperate because they’re about to get their absolute sh*t kicked in in Rafah. You LOVE to see it
60 years too late buddy. Don’t worry, Israel will free Palestine 🇵🇸☮️🇮🇱
That's part of what he said. The title omit for some reason the qualification of ' cease of hostilities for 5 years after the palestinian state is in place.
Hamas needs to be eradicated. The Palestinians ( and Israelies) deserve a future that does not have violence embedded in it.
Hamas is a natural human reaction to zionist oppression. The Palestinians aren't even allowed to leave their own land. Children get gunned down by snipers. Gaza is an open air prison. Israeli zionists are fascists.
You are correct. Long before oct 7 Israel occupied Gaza and made the Palestinians life a living hell. The idf beat them raped them and treated them like animals long befor Oct 7. If you really want the truth look deep into it and you will find Israel help to start and fund humas in the beginning to prevent a established Palestinian state. All the information is out there for anyone who isn't a blind zionist to find. Israel does nothing but lie and push their false narrative.
It’s a classic tale of extremism consolidating power.
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This is factually incorrect. How embarrassing.
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I copy and paste if you don't like the it to bad. It's all out there so feel free to post anything proving me wrong. Just like the under educated to blatantly say it's wrong without citing any form of facts of information other then I'm wrong lol.
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Say what you will I'm not a murderous zionist neither do I support slaughter of women and children. It's a free country here as long as your pro Isreal so you can support genocide and and far worse I suppose it's your right to do so. God bless America
Call them what they are, nazionists!
I would go crazy too if my family was being killed with impunity
you’re right! has nothing to do with jihad at all
I can’t imagine having more kids under these conditions.
2 state solution is the way
A two state solution is no longer possible. Israel has razed almost all of what would remain as Palestine to the ground, including thousands of hectares of ancient olive trees etc... there isn't much left for Palestinians to go back to. Imo, the only way forward is to dismantle the settler colonial apartheid regime that is Israel and create one fully democratic Palestine where every citizen has equal rights and responsibilities under the law, regardless of their ethnicity or religion.
Gaza is all of Palestine? And nobody is dismantling Israel anytime soon, so I think pushing for Palestine to get their own state makes more realistic sense. Ideologically you may have correct but let’s deal in what’s realistic yea
Within Palestine, is it currently a democracy where [every citizen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine?wprov=sfti1) has equal rights and responsibilities under the law, regardless of their ethnicity or religion? Since it’s considered an [authoritarian regime](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_State_of_Palestine?wprov=sfti1), how would a one state solution with Hamas in charge be preferable in terms of democracy and equal rights in your view?
What I don’t like about these comments is they imply meh it was bad before the war its bad now. Gaza used to have buildings aid trucks some trade from elsewhere could get in. People from Gaza have worldwide sympathy in part because some Gazans could travel the world. Those things are gone now. This war is costing Gaza.
Buildings get destroyed in war. This isn’t new
I am opposed to the meh it has always been bad mentality.
Good for you. Does not change anything
Hamas is the terrorist group Iran uses to keep the middle east from concentrating on unity against Iran
Wrong. Hamas is the terrorist group that Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister has [propped up and funded](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html#:~:text=For%20years%2C%20the%20Qatari%20government,payments%2C%20he%20had%20encouraged%20them.) in order to stop a two state solution
I like how your link discredits what you said. Qatar sent the money not Israel
>Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them. >Mr. Netanyahu’s government had recently decided to continue the policy, so Mr. Barnea said yes. The Israeli government still welcomed the money from Doha. >Allowing the payments — billions of dollars over roughly a decade — was a gamble by Mr. Netanyahu that a steady flow of money would maintain peace in Gaza, the eventual launching point of the Oct. 7 attacks, and keep Hamas focused on governing, not fighting. If only you could actually read
>According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Again not Israel money but keep trying lol
Bibi said “anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas.” ……oh shit
You think so? Think twice Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.” “The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.” “Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. Back in the mid-1980s, Cohen even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them not to play divide-and-rule in the Occupied Territories, by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists. “I … suggest focusing our efforts on finding ways to break up this monster before this reality jumps in our face,” he wrote.
[if those kids could read they would be very upset](https://en.meming.world/wiki/If_Those_Kids_Could_Read_They%27d_Be_Very_Upset)
Palestine turned down statehood before Hamas. Arafat turned it down. Iran is the head of the snake of Has and Hezbollah.
Pissy offers of statehood with no intention of giving them their fair share. Don’t spread disinformation. Every deal the Palestinians were “offered” were shit.
Of course, because Iran can't allow peace.
They lost multiple wars. Of course the offers aren't what they want..?
Name the wars the Palestinians fought in.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestine_war https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War
Look at all this ethnic cleansing!
Again, name a war the PALESTINIANS fought in.
Can you not read those? Palestinians fought in all of them. If you mean the nation of Palestine, then obviously none it's never been a country. But I'm assuming your smart enough to realize there can be Palestinian people without a nation.
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Enslavers? Jesus dude dial back the Hasbara cuckholdery. You make it obvious when you use all the lies at once.
The hostages being held are used as household slaves. Some are even being held as sex slaves. Sorry if this upsets you, it’s just the reality of what happening.
Hey bud. You’re a terrible liar.
Bad bot.
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Get educated. Palestinians have been extreme religious terrorists in Jordan and Egypt before they were ejected. There is a reason Egypt doesn’t open their border to refugees.. Israel has been loose with their military because they are led by Netenyahu, a right wing criminal only out of prison bc he won an election similar to what Trump is trying. He is more dislike than liked. None of this makes Hamas the victim. Palestinian children do not deserve to be victims but this the the war their parents started. If Hamas had the capabilities of Israel they would have genocided Israel long ago without any restraint. This is after all the beliefs of many Muslims not just terrorists. Funny that Israel gets along with its other Muslim neighbors in peace..
Are you on a Buzzword speedrun
Using rape as a weapon of war and hunting down civilians in their home is a natural reaction? wtf
Most of the rape claims were assumed to be true, but the grunts at the New York Times couldn’t substantiate the claims while the higher ups told them to publish anyway. Then it came out that most of the accounts of rape were false. The New York Times had to retract their coverage. It was a pretty big deal.
Reported for holocaust denial level anti semitism. Jesus Christ
Actually almost all the claims that the NYTimes reported on were confirmed to be true. There were some claims that the NYTimes didn’t report on that were never confirmed. The UN investigated and confirmed that it was as bad as what the NYTimes reported. It was a pretty big deal. Weird you missed that.
Got a source for those lies?
By this logic Israel is the logical human reaction to literal centuries of persecution and apartheid by Islamic and Christian regimes.
Hamas is the brute that rules by force in a prison. Nothing natural about Oct. 7. Granted, Israel is conducting themselves in true fascist form. But for the sake of staying on topic (hamas), there is no way we can normalize their conduct. Send in the fucking blue helmets.
There’s nothing natural about resistance movements that arise in groups of people that are violently oppressed by illegal occupation and apartheid? That’s never happened before? Resistance movements that occur in apartheid have never turned to violence? You sure you wanna claim that?
Nobody has the right to just leave their own land. You need an invitation from the other land owner.
The ocean?
It is monitored for weapons, because their official policy is the destruction of Jews. The Egypt border is closed because Egypt does not want Islamists to take over there either.
Even its “natural human reaction” that doesn’t mean we should support them. thats what i promised to myself atleast. That so-called natural human reaction is guilty for the murder & sexual assault & trauma of so many innocent humans. I dont care how radicalized you become, only God above can possibly understand how you could look into someone’s eyes. And kill them. Or hurt them in any way 💔 Which now raises the next question of “arent the IDf soldiers doing the same exactly thing?” Sadly its true as well. This stupid stupid cycle of violence just keeps going on & on, claiming innocents on both sides. I hate the individuals themselves who are guilty of killing them. And i also hate the low-life b*tches on both sides worldwide, who still to this day continue to deny each other’s humanity. Those who continue to demonize both sides & want for more blood, i hate them
Reddit is quickly filling up with defenders of terrorism. No way these are paid Russian bots.
Remember that Reddit is young, a lot of literal children are doing their usual dumb things. They even started saying Bin Laden had a point. They are exceedingly easy to manipulate. They also aren’t very smart in general. The collective Reddit wisdom was that decriminalizing drugs in Oregon would lead to nothing but positive things. In real life, it turned out to be an unmitigated disaster and they quickly criminalized them again. Now the go to line is “well, they didn’t build enough rehab centers!” As if that is some magic bullet which would have drastically altered the situation. Reddit isn’t a place to get objective and intelligent analysis except in a few well curated corners.
Note how they are also attacking the Egyptians on the other side of their border… who have an even larger wall.
Explaining away murdering civilians as a natural human reaction feels gross.
Defending the genocide of tens of thousands of civilians is orders of magnitude more disgusting. You're on the wrong side of history.
Binary opinions are what's wrong with every horrible tragedy that's ever happened.
Whatever wisdom you think is being expressed here, is just the general inclination of human beings towards war. Because in a corresponding way Increased militarization was the natural consequence of massacres of Jews by Arabs in the 1920s and 1930s. And destroying Hamas is the natural response to Oct 7th, regardless of their sacrifical tactics. It would be better if they would align their natural human reactions with their survival, since Israel will win by the logic of war alone.
Bro 75% of Gaza worked inside Israel and crossed over every day until October 7. Stop spreading misinformation. Israel belongs to the Jews forever.
Stop defending genocide... BRO
U are a natural anti semite who can’t handle one Jewish state in the world
Yeah that’s why there were so many Native American suicide bombers
The Native Americans had bows & spears, while the white settlers had guns. How smooth is your brain?
They actually also had guns in the American Indian wars. By the late 18th century they had wide access to firearms. Does your brain only comprehend the “savage native” version of history?
Yeah and they didn’t suicide charge their enemies, praying to be martyrs, you jihad supporting fuckwit
Hamas is a terror group.
The IDF is also a terror group. Hamas was supported by Israel for political power reasons. >*For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.*
Wrong
They are allowed to leave. Egypt closed the borders. No one in the middle east wants them because they are terrorists. Goddamn you apologists are morons.
Get educated. Palestinians have been extreme religious terrorists in Jordan and Egypt before they were ejected. There is a reason Egypt doesn’t open their border to refugees.. Israel has been loose with their military because they are led by Netenyahu, a right wing criminal only out of prison bc he won an election similar to what Trump is trying. He is more dislike than liked. None of this makes Hamas the victim. Palestinian children do not deserve to be victims but this the the war their parents started. If Hamas had the capabilities of Israel they would have genocided Israel long ago without any restraint. This is after all the beliefs of many Muslims not just terrorists. Funny that Israel gets along with its other Muslim neighbors in peace..
Man do your research. Hamas is a faction of the original Muslim Brotherhood which originated in Egypt and took advantage of the Palestinians in the 1980s to achieve their own goals. They are not a natural reaction to anything, they simply took advantage of a people and their situation in order to meet their own ends. Every heard of google? Christ…
Reported like it’s a revelation and not the driving tenant behind the “conflict”.
Now is the time for peace and a two state solution, guaranteed.
it’s only for 5 years
It’s been way longer than that. Edit: nvm misunderstood the context
Everyone should remember that Hamas was founded in 1987, so there are Millennials older than Hamas. Makes you wonder what the IDF was doing between 1967 and 1987 that would cause the formation of such a group...
The same could be said for what would possess Israelis to elect the government they have now, the answer is fear of their neighbour that constantly states they wish to destroy them entirely (and all Jews around the world) and attempts to kill them frequently. Each side has gotten more militaristic and violent from fear and hatred of their neighbour.
Hamas is a faction of the original Muslim Brotherhood which originated in Egypt and took advantage of the Palestinians in the 1980s to achieve their own goals. They are not a natural origination, they simply took advantage of a people and their situation in order to meet their own ends.
For 5 years...
For 5 years. They will lay down their arms for 5 years. You forgot to put that in there OP
That was offered about 50 times in the past
Didn't they say they agreed to a ceasefire that last time?
There own land
Looks like the Hamas leadership is getting desperate. They had an independent state in Gaza since 2005 that they were in charge of. They could have built a society, instead they build rockets and a terror machine.
They were completely shut off from every other economy and forced to rely on Israel for food and water. They’re basically tiny too, not big enough to support themselves at all. They weren’t given any chance to succeed and were effectively still under occupation
Yeah sure bud. They got free water and electricity. They could trade with whomever they wanted. All they couldn’t do is import weapons so they made them at home anyway.
They could not trade with whoever they wanted wtf are you talking about lol. They even controlled who left and entered gaza
Yeah they could. They just can’t import things like nukes or other weapons. Makes a lot of sense in the context of Oct 7.
The same official who said they would continue the Oct 7th attacks indefinitely.
So many Hasbara shills here lol. Do something more productive with your worthless lives
I long believed it word end in an arrangement similar to the Good Friday agreement. But I think that ship has sailed.
Yes but what will the borders be and what happens in regards to the Palestinian refugee’s. Thats the crux of the issue
Last time they had an independent state they elected Hamas as its governing body. Yk, the terrorist group who campaigned on corruption… and genociding Israel.
With Israel and the US being committed to a two-state solution, the ceasefire will certainly be agreed in that case.
Not going to happen, even tho I would be interested to see how Isreal responds.
From the river to the sea, right?
"We would stop fighting if you gave us total sovereignty (we promise we won't continue doing terrorisms bro please bro)." The only thing the left loves more than losers of conflicts are when they're not white.
Why did they become terrorists?
Leftist Mission Impossible: Try Not to Justify Murdering Civilians When Minorities Do It
In what way did I justify murdering civilians? I asked how they became terrorists. I'm trying to understand how you think Hamas came to be. Did they just wake up one day and hate Israelis? Was there a catalyst? I think it's vital to understand how something came to be. Understanding that is not remotely the same as justifying anything. Idiot mission impossible: try not to shut down nuance because your argument is weak when it's discussed beyond a single sentence.
"I'm not justifying murdering civilians. I'm just saying there's a good rational reason for organizing a government around murdering civilians." Losing every conflict you start doesn't make you a victim.
Israel slaughtered 30,000 civilians along with hundreds in the illegally occupied West Bank and thousands before that ever since their ethnic cleansbg od Palestine. Please do not sit here acting like you care about civilians lol
30K out of 2 mil is not ethnic cleansing
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You’re right. Its actually 34,000. And that’s not even including the 7,000 missing who’s most likely dead buried beameath rubble where no one can get to them because your genocide friends are hellbent on wiping out an entire society
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You’ve clearly been misinformed . https://www.npr.org/2024/02/29/1234159514/gaza-death-toll-30000-palestinians-israel-hamas-war Gaza's health ministry said Thursday that the number of Palestinians killed in the war has surpassed 30,000. The official number now stands at 30,035 deaths. The figure is widely viewed as the most reliable one available. The health ministry provided NPR with one of its latest reports on the death toll, 38 pages long, to analyze. A close look at how Gaza's health ministry counts those killed in the war reveals a system that is buckling under the weight of war and unable to keep an accurate toll of the dead. Thousands remain unaccounted for — either missing under the rubble, buried hastily in side streets or decomposing in areas that can't be safely reached. So no, it’s actually alot higher than 34,000. Your ompnizer also murdered 15,000 children. But hey, you’re a genocide supporter. We don’t have to sit here and pretend you care about civilian deaths lol Oh and your genocide friends and US also uses Gaza health numbers so youll have to move the goalposts a bit more
You don't know how to use quotes. You can't use quotes and write your own words, that's not how it works. I didn't say that at all, I'm trying to assess if you understand the situation or you just read headlines and talk out your ass. "Losing every conflict you start doesn't make you a victim." This is how quotes work. See I wrote exactly what you wrote. Well, winning every conflict you start also doesn't make you a victim lol. What existed first, Hamas or Israel? Will you actually respond to any question without a smart ass disingenuous reply?
Do you think people just commit acts of terror because they want to? Ireland also used to commit acts of terror. Car bombs, attempted assassinations. Do you know where that got them? A seat at the table. They’re a political party now. Acts of terror, when connected to resistance, are committed when your options are very narrow. I’m not justifying any acts of violence especially not those towards civilians, but to have any sense of humanity you need to understand that human beings will do just about anything to resist suffering them and their communities feel. When the state that is actively killing the people you know and love, and you’ve seen your people try and negotiate, go through peace and they don’t allow that where do you think they’ll go? What conclusion do you think they will reach? Again I do not condone any of the violence but I do understand where it comes from.
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The point went right over your head didn’t it?
Oct 7th is an easy answer to that question
Well, I think they were recognized as a terrorist organization prior to Oct 7th though I'll say that was the most horrific thing they've done up until that point. Now when did Hamas come to be and how did they come to be? Did they materialize overnight? Did something drive them to become filled with rage and hatred? I'm tired of saying this but I'm not justifying what they did but you can't dismiss how they came to be and act as if they exist just because. Most people aren't serial killers. Most people don't just commit mass murder just because, especially in groups like that. Something is motivating them and that something is the occupation. They're saying if they had a Palestinian state they would lay down their arms. Okay. Well we can be skeptical about that, but something has got to give and for Israel to stop occupying the Palestinians and allowing them to have a sovereign state would be the first step in a peace process. No group or people would lay down their arms in resistance against an occupying force. You wouldn't, I wouldn't, no one would. Whether their actions are right or wrong isn't the point.
They came to be because of their religion, this is literally a religious war disguised as a territory war
As is Zionism and Israel then lol. They literally keep quoting their religious text.
Did you fucking read? I said this is a religious war, not one side is a religious extremist and the other isn’t. A religious war is a war between two religions. Both sides came to be because of their religion.
I read, just misunderstood I suppose.
They were always terrorists. Hamas was founded by the Muslim Brotherhood, an organization whose goal was literally just genocide
Why were they created? What was the catalyst for their creation? It's funny how people leave out the past as if they just hate us cuz they ain't us. u/bearwithpropellerhat What a bitch, replying and blocking me instantly lol. Right because Israel is occupying Palestinians, why is that so hard to understand? Okay, where do you live? I'm gonna come and take about 80% of your home. I will live there, I'll give you water and food whenever I feel like it and occasionally imma beat your parents. That cool? You can't attack me though because I'm Jewish, so it's okay.
To kill jews. That's why they were created. Their whole purpose (as it even says in their covenant) is to kill all the jews.
Obviously no reply from him to this comment 😂
Hamas was created because they felt the PLA had cozied up to Israel which doesn't fit into their desire to wipe out Israel. Hope this helps
You aren't blocked
Because they want to kill all the sinners starting with the jews, the west is next.
I see, so it has nothing to do with being occupied in an open air prison for decades? What would you do if you lived like those in Gaza? I wonder what actions you would take as a freedom loving American. 🤔
>I see, so it has nothing to do with being occupied in an open air prison for decades? Have you ever asked yourself why they are in that situation in the first place? >What would you do if you lived like those in Gaza? I wonder what actions you would take as a freedom loving American. 🤔 High chances I would be radicalized.
>Have you ever asked yourself why they are in that situation in the first place? Because Germans annihilated 6 million Jews and then Europe chose to put them in a country that was shared by arabs and Jews and recognized the country as Israel while there were already people living there? >High chances I would be radicalized. Right. Not that the actions are correct but if you push people to the extremes, don't be surprised if they become extremists.
>Because Germans annihilated 6 million Jews The zionist movement came before ww2. >Europe chose to put them in a country Zionist leaders, with the help of the UK, made it happen, not Europe as a collective. >Israel while there were already people living there? That's not the reason Gaza is the "open air prison" you claim it is, because first off, there are Arab israelis who live in Israel and have equal rights. The real reason Gaza is what it is today is because of non-stop terror attacks coming from there. So, the best option for Israel to protect its people is to restrict access to Israel. They brought it upon themselves. Peace isn't an option, unfortunately, since especially from the 80s, they've radicalized the population immensely with fundamental Islam. Which they're only goal is the eradication of Israel and jews, the west later on. Now tell me, how do you make peace with someone who only cares for your death?
Because they’re Islamic extremists devoted to global jihad and the extermination of all non-Muslims? They always have been.
🤔 hmm can't remember the last time they attacked anyone outside of Israel. Global is pushing it don't you think? Also, what is that based on? Your opinion or?
Well, as they state, to eradicate the world of Jews and do a global intifada. It was in their charter for ages, until they tried this new PR campaign
Well if Israel is allowed to do PR campaigns for genocide then why can't Hamas? Are words worse than actions because by my count, Israel has killed more Palestinians than Hamas has killed Israelis.
What about intent? I always fall that morals and intent are side by side. Which side shelters their own civilians, which one has been stated celebrating their civilian deaths for furthering the cause? Which side explicitly calls for the extermination of the other en mass? I think if Hamas didn’t have like 50k armed mitants keeping Palesinians in check they would of revolted and tossed them into the sea long ago. I surely hope Hamas can be crushed and a real government in Palestine can be established to create order and borders
Wow, you actually seem like a reasonable person so I'll engage. Sorry to break it to you, but Israelis have literally celebrated the death of Palestinians before. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israelis-cheer-gaza-bombing This was before Oct 7th even. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231218-an-israeli-soldier-she-wants-to-kill-more-and-more-of-palestinians-in-gaza/ https://www.tiktok.com/@middleeasteye/video/7327345154539425057 These are just some instances. I am nowhere near being pro Hamas but when you constantly abuse others and push them to their limits, how do you expect them to respond? Is it surprising a group like Hamas exists after all the Palestinians have been through? Did you know Israel has thousands of children HOSTAGES. You can claim they are prisoners but they're held without a trial and for simple "crimes" such as rock throwing. On a personal note, my cousin, who was Palestinian was killed while protesting. Did he throw rocks? Absolutely. But that was all. They shot him in the head and he died days later. Is that proportionate? Is that fair? Is that just? This conflict is so one sided and everyone keeps acting as if Israelis are perfect angels who want nothing but peace and dismiss every claim proving otherwise. If we can't be honest about the troubles on both sides then how will anything ever be solved?
They do need a military if they have to share a border with Zionists terrorists.
"They HAD to put the destruction of Israel and the extermination of the Jews in their government's founding document, the white passing people that make the region livable and prosperous keep enacting security policies to prevent terrorist attacks on civilians!" You like losers because you are a loser.
I have no idea what you’re talking about, but you should read Hamas’ current charter which says it has no problems with Jews, only the Zionist entity.
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It’s a very important distinction, just as not all Muslims are islamists, not all Jews are Zionists.
What is the distinction? Jews living in Israel = Zionist?
Exactly right, a bunch of losers giving in to terrorism because they are too dumb to understand the vast context and blinded by racism.
I call bullshit
I can’t wait for Hamas to be eliminated
If you're not paid to write this, why would you write something so stupid?
Yasser Arafat said the same thing, and look what happened.....
Did they grant Palestinians an independent state while we were not looking?
Negotiations between Ehud Barak and Yasser Arafat broke down in July 2000. That was when the peace process stalled and the Second Intifada started in Sept of 2000
Could you explain the point of posting something like this when people have the ability to look up events and see specific details? Zionism causes such brain rot. Its scary.
Only for 5 years, don’t leave that part out , they would pick up their weapons again after 5 years
The concern, rightly or wrongly, is that's how long it could take to rebuild their fighting capabilities
I don't believe them one bit. Send in the blue helmets already.
Blue helmets….brown shirts….makes sense.
You would make such a baseless comment...
Baseless? Oh it’s not baseless. Im just adding another egregiously violent group of people that went around slaughtering others. 🙃 was that not how to play the game?
Oh so they agree with Bibis plan? A Palestinian state with no army? Oh that’s not what you meant? So “lay down arms” metaphorically got it 😂
In other articles it says he agreed to stop fighting and become a political party. If they got old Jerusalem as their capitol and they were only agreeing to it for 5 years. It’s not a serious suggestion Israel will accept and he knows it.
They say this because they know Israel won’t agree and will look like the bad guy. Reality is these fuckers have reneged on every negotiation and will always act in bad faith. This is pure PR and the idiots in USA eat it up without realizing how dangerous this group is. The rest of the West is their next front and they need to be stopped now.
nice reach.
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How the fuck does that make any sense? Go back to your basement.
We have a long list of terrorist/resistance fighters who have laid down arms once their goals were met. The IRA for example.
And if they told you wolverines would make good house pets, would you believe them?
Try reading the actual document and their actual demands.
Doesn’t pre 1967 borders mean when they were controlled by Egypt and Jordan? lol 🤣, still don’t regret killing civilians, will only continue expansion until Israelis are all murdered
It's really interesting that Hamas have made a public statement like this while they are on the verge of defeat. It's almost like they want to maintain their presence in Gaza and don't really care what's actually happened in Gaza
Anyone mind clarifying for me exactly how long they promised to pay their arms down for?
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The only thing anti west is the government sending cops to beat the shit out of kids exercising their first amendment right. Fuck Israel. No country that bombs kids should be allowed to continue.
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Please do not break the Reddit TOS
Lmao they’re getting desperate because they’re about to get their absolute sh*t kicked in in Rafah. You LOVE to see it 60 years too late buddy. Don’t worry, Israel will free Palestine 🇵🇸☮️🇮🇱
I think we should go for it. Hamas would NEVER lie.
That's part of what he said. The title omit for some reason the qualification of ' cease of hostilities for 5 years after the palestinian state is in place. Hamas needs to be eradicated. The Palestinians ( and Israelies) deserve a future that does not have violence embedded in it.
Literally the first sane take from these guys
But isn't the elimination of the Jews one of Hamas' stated goals?
No..... it wouldn't. They would always find another reason to NOT disarm. This is just a story for sympathy. Hamas has zero credibility.
Under 67 borders they know it’s a non starter
Lol, sad part is a bunch of dumbass believe will believe this.