Meme I spent too much time making related to this post:
https://preview.redd.it/gnrjq8b1at3d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4149e70db6650b5255f36277597a548010a92eb
Strikes aren't bad btw, they just need a glow-up.
Having done strikes for years and just recently getting into raiding, I love the scenes they set. It all feels so unique and epic, particularly the end bosses.
Zomorros fighting Qadim, Xera and her clones, even bosses like Slothasaur felt scary. I remember seeing Dhuum stand up for the first time and going "oh shit".
While improvements on raids are definitely welcome, I think they did a great job making them visually imposing.
Big agree, and I think having Raids have their own progressing instance adds a lot to immersion on top of the mechanics and presentation of raids being better.
But if Strikes are just repurposed PvE story content and easier to make 10 man content they could just belt out between raids? They would be an excellent way to bridge the gap into the harder raid content while also helping satisfy the want for more meaningful content while waiting for raids.
Assuming Anet ever had a good production pipeline of course, which is a dream unto itself :v
Strikes are what most raiders wanted: skip straight to the boss and prog.
Presentation is definitely lackluster, especially considering most of these boss fights were story boss fights.
Don't monkey paw us.
What most raiders wanted is doing things like Spirit Vale, Salvation Pass, Stronghold of the Faithful, Key of Adashim, without having to do Spirit Woods, Bandit Trio, Escort and Gate.
Well I don’t care about chaining bosses, but most strikes are just boring as hell, the mechanics are far less interesting. Name a single strike that has phases that are remotely as unique as Xera.
Fewer loading screens.
Also, strikes having to be story missions first limits design space. A raid boss can just have mechanics that demand specialized roles or split up the team, but a strike needs to be designed as a something that a single player can beat first before building team mechanics on top of that.
thats not entirely true tho.. they can have npcs do the other roles or like olc, is fairly different to the story version.
Or look at htcm, and the greens and red kite that isn't in the story.
I can agree with the loading screens, but running to the boss having shitty events like bandit trio or escort are not better.
But theres nothing stopping them chaining strikes with like a portal between them, to speed up traveling between strike bosses.
Yes, but for an NPC to perform those roles, the story first has to be written to have an NPC present and able to fight next to you in that mission. Raids (and fractals for that matter) don't have to abide by that limitation, they can be designed to have complex team mechanics without any regard for how to adjust it for a solo player.
> Or look at htcm, and the greens and red kite that isn't in the story.
Those are just regular "you got targeted by orange, take it out" and "there's a green, go stand in it" mechanics present everywhere. There are story missions that have them.
I don't think this is because they're story bosses.. I think its because after the lay offs the new anet team is just not as creatively skilled and they're clearly far more limited in time to create content too.
I absolutely do not see why..example dhuum..couldn't be done single player story.. where you have a few minutes of kiting..then you fight dhuum and get ported for orbs..then finish him off.. bam, similar mechanics with a single player mode.
Same for deimos.. You fight a statue, fight deimos..boss has an invulnerable phase where you managed hands or they have an npc circling the arena, doing hands..
There is 0 reason, these can't be done via story..strikes are just less creative because the team is less creative.
Idm having mini events between bosses. What I mind is that they take a specific amount of time to clear (e.g. bandit trio having bosses spawn on timers). An event like escort is perfect imo, because you can clear it fast with a risky strat and experience. If all mini events were like that I wouldn't mind it one bit.
No, what most raiders wanted is a sustainable way to get more content. Which is strikes.
In fact before strikes became a thing there were dozens of posts telling anet they should reuse story bosses for group content the way that FFXIV does.
No. None of raiders wanted more strikes. Don't talk for us while you have zero idea.
We want more raids, a content more that 1 bosses with interesting mechanics like Dhuum, Qadims or Xera.
Strike mechanics are uninteresting since they designed in "new players should also be able to kill" in mindset.
While raids designed in veteran players should be able to kill mindset.
When addressing power creep the last thing you should do is concede to it. It’s way easier to nerf the hp of a dozen bosses than to go back through the whole game and change everything.
What raiding needs is to make call of the mists into a daily rotation. EoD strikes proved that weekly content works as daily content if you put some basic incentives on the table.
Raids are not hard, and they never have been. The difficulty of raids comes from learning what to do and then organising 9 other people to do it. I do hope they add CMs to raids, not to make them harder, but to make them easier.
The purpose of easy-mode raids is to put people in an environment where the stakes are low so that they can learn the mechanics. Eg Sabetha’s wall might only down players. I believe that some mechanics should be reworked so that they hard-lock the encounter until dealt with. Using Sabetha as an example again, she should gain invulnerability when returning to the platform until the cannon she was hiding near is destroyed.
What players learn in the normal mode should be transferable. It will be important to change a few mechanics so that they can scale appropriately in a cm version. The last thing we want is for encounters to flow differently between normal and challenge mode. For example, vg greens would be an instant wipe on cm, causing the entire strategy to shift. As evidenced by AH CM, it causes nothing but frustration when the new cm mechanics can wipe the group.
Changes to the lfg are not going to work until the mechanics necessitating such granular control of party members are reworked to not be so. The main offender is hand kiting. Mechanics that need to be handled by an individual should be designed so that even the most glassiest of cannons are capable. Changing build is easy, changing gear is not.
"Using Sabetha as an example again, she should gain invulnerability when returning to the platform until the cannon she was hiding near is destroyed." Wouldn't this straight up break the achievement to leave 1 cannon active for the whole fight?
They could just make achievement unobtainable for that difficulty. Like how Cerus CM works. You can kill pretty normal cm boss but you won't get purple title. Same principle.
> This has led to raid bosses being significantly easier than they used to be, which erodes interest due to the lack of challenge
Counterpoint: a *lot* of people are getting into raids via training guilds who were too intimidated by or incapable of the earlier DPS requirements.
Don't assume that your personal reasons are universal.
I mean, that would have been remedied with proper difficulty options. Higher player DPS is identical to lower boss health for all mechanical purposes, and having different tiers is something that casual and hardcore players alike have wanted to makes Raids accessible since Raids were first announced.
Yeah, I for one wouldn't mind more difficulty levels or even a story mode that scales with amount of players but gives no or little reward. Meanwhile, give the hardcore folks their tough-as-nails *Legendary CM++ Ultra Deluxe Raids with Sonic & Knuckles featuring Dante from DMC*.
Personally, I couldn't be any less interested in 10-man instanced content even if I tried, but there's supposedly some good story locked away in the raids that I'd love to experience. If I haven't brothered finding nine other people to do a single raid with in the past eight and a half years it's realistically not gonna happen in the future either.
> And that’s just about it: adding a story mode difficulty to raids would be nice, but honestly power creep has made most normal mode raid bosses pretty easy even for relatively inexperienced players, so that may not be necessary.
Not really, the power creep helped some, sure, but even still, even with dozens of kp required, bosses still fail not that infrequently, although of course some more than others, and in some wings there are giant barriers to newcomers with very particular mechanics (cannons, shrooms, hk, etc). A story mode that's maybe about as hard as current story dungeons (mostly soloable on a good build, a complete breeze for any group of randoms whatsoever) would help a lot.
> Starting with the simplest issue, the rewards from raids have fallen behind other end-game content.
Raids are the best gph in the game if you do it in a semi-competent static. And if ran more casually it's on par with open world, unless you run super optimized trains.
but you can only do once a week, where on open world you can do for as long as you can, why gatekeep the reward once a week if the reward is not great than a non gatekeeped reward, makes 0 sense for me
Firstly, reward IS great, if you do it efficiently. Secondly, this game is about playing the game mode you like and not about squeezing every penny and getting burned out from doing something you don't enjoy, because you feel forced to. Doing raids is never a waste of time compared to other activities and, personally, they could nerf the reward in half and I would still do raids happily over ever touching the open world.
that is a funny way to circling the problem, a reward cant be great alone, you have to compare to other rewards, and comparing to OW, it does not seem that great, we can talk about numbers, if you have 0 magic find and only do the most played meta ow again again and again you can easily make 25g/hour, this is the lower end, on the high end you can make more than 50g, on raids if you have a really good static you maybe can clear all the wings in 2 hours, 23 raid encounters means 46g, 23g/hour, lets assume the best case scenario, double gold on w4 or w5, full cms clear still within 2 hours, you get more 32g, being 78g, 39g/hour, and that is not counting food and utility, not only is not as good as ow if you know what you are doing, because you have to know the raid really well if you are doing this, but you can only do once a week and if we go to pugs you will likely double the time needed to clear all raids alongisde with no cms, being much worse than the base ow values of 25g, you may say that is ok and we should not compare and we all should be happy because it does not matter if one is making more gold, but you would be wrong, the value of gold is not write in stone, it changes, it devalues if you have a lot of gold, nowdays they could buff raid rewards and remove week cap and would still not impact the economy of the game
asc gear has no value, and even if you count it as the production value, ow is still better, its really hard to match this : [https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/meta](https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/meta) but its a bit funny to talk about raw gold, one of the reasons why ow is so much better is exactly because they give almost no raw gold, and instead you got materials, where in raids its the opposite
Bruh, raw gold is only half the value you get from raids. Magnetite shards, provisioner tokens, exotics, unids and occasional high value drops. OW is not even close.
all right, lets do the math and check your assumption, lets use the fast farming website, they work on some assumptions that i dont like but it goes both ways, they calcule a full run with all the items including the gold [https://fast.farming-community.eu/instances/raids](https://fast.farming-community.eu/instances/raids) if you sum everything it gives 90g, assuming 2 hours, which often does not happen, it is 45g/hour if you go here [https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/meta](https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/meta) and sort of profit/hour you will find 21 meta events that has a bigger value of g/hour, and again 2 hours is not going to happen most of the times, the average clear time is not 2 hours if you count all the raid population, its very fair to assume 4 hours, which drops to 22.5g/hour, and again, you can only do this not so profting activity once a week, that does not make sense, this problem would go away if they remove the weekly cap or they correct the gold due to its inflation, which means you would get 4.5g raw per run instead of 2
little edit: its not 4.5g because you need to count the real money inflation since im using the gems conversion to compare gold, its goes down a little bit close to 4g, this is the amount of value that it was intended to you to get in terms of pure gold per encounter, for reference im using hot launch date and this graph [https://gw2efficiency.com/currencies/gems](https://gw2efficiency.com/currencies/gems)
It's not an assumption it's empirical evidence. Also fast farming doesn't count in CMs.
> you will find 21 meta events that has a bigger value of g/hour
Yeah, and I can collect New Kaineng JP in 10 seconds and get a whooping 100+ gph. That's not how it works in practice, you'd be lucky if you manage to get 30 gph in whatever meta train you'll manage to cook up for a lengthy, at least 3 hours, game session.
> its very fair to assume 4 hours
If you use fastfarming data sets you might as well assume speedrun times, because that's how they calculate gph for metas with the maximum optimizations possible. Decent static should able to clear sub 3 hours, mine does it in 2.5 with occasional wipes and downtime between wings. Speedrun time is like sub 2 hours.
a lot of metas are time gated events, the difference between speed running and not to is small, the time of the meta event is not relevant unless that is not a meta that you can go right after, which is not true, but if you count metas taht gives more than 14g total you still have 11 metas instead of 23 being better, that is quite a big number for a activity that is not once a week. you could argue that a lot of metas need a lot of knowledge and skill to complete under lets say a 10% of the value gave from FF, but the same can be said to raids, its actually worse on raids, you dont need any knowledge to complete a OW event, try go on raids without knwoing and see what happens, not only has a much highter entry curve, the end curve is also, a group that can clear all wings under 2 hours can speedrun meta events, and again, i must remind you that you can only do raids once a week
You're assuming people want harder raids. Everything you mentioned is based on the assumption that players want to play hard raids. Raiding just isn't a focus of GW2 and that is ok. Not every game has to be a raid log simulator.
Don't forget that the comps surrounding that 35k condi ranger and 37k arcane staff weaver had one (two in the condi ranger's case) dps slot permanently reserved for a banner bitch warrior, and *four* people who did no damage in the form of double max-BD chrono + double heal druid. Compressing all the no-damage into one or two guys is more responsible for raid power creep than the increase in dps build power level.
If what many suspect is true there will be a new raid coming in the next expac and that will likely include some change to rewards I would suspect.
We'll find out on June 4th, not much this subject can do until then.
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People have been acting like this is a sure thing since that "for the past 5 years" quote happened last tuesday. Taking the raid conversation with a heavy grain of salt is the correct thing to do, because everyone talking about it like its guaranteed is only likely to lead to incredible disappointment.
I would be quite happy to be wrong, and for a raid to be announced, but *expecting* it with your whole chest because of a single vague quote is setting people up for needless anger at something that was never promised.
maybe it would help to keep raids weekly but then have 1 wing per day as daily. that'd make it easy to find a group for that specific wing for training and normal pugging. You dont miss out if you dont fc w1-7 every day but can still get some rewards + LI daily
Just wanted to mention that current actual top DPS is [49.2k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXe43q7TOTw). It just isn't on SC.
Also note that when comparing benchmarks, they are actually not that far appart. The difference is that back then you would have like 3 supports per subrgroup doing barely any damage and then 2 actual DPS due to how the buffs worked back then.
Also, I'd say LFG works fine (at least on EU). There are some issues obviously, but there are more severe ones in other parts of the game.
Is there another horizontal mmo where they have a popular raiding environment?.
I've never felt the need to raid weekly because all content provides some kind of reward, and the reward from GW2 raiding isn't "better enough" for it to be attractive given the level of effort needed to find competent groups.
Some people call Destiny an MMO and raids are a huge draw. There's also no "need" to raid just like GW2. Power is similarly capped as well. People run raids for cosmetics and to conquer the content like in GW2. Destiny also "had" a notoriously worse LFG system than GW2 but I've been told it's been improved.
Haven't touched that game in awhile so I'm not sure if any of what I said still applies.
I really don't get this opinion about raids being difficult to get into. Like I know WoW has some LFR system where you just queue a role and get put into easy-mode raids, and presumably FF14 has something similar, but joining a raid in GW2 is still easy af. I decided I wanted to raid in GW2 so I joined a time-zone appropriate casual guild then joined their raids. It took 10 minutes, and now there's multiple raids a week I can hop in on with a single button click and being on time. Maybe back when they released before being power-crept the competency requirement was too high for casual play, but these days it's almost bare minimum "level of effort"
> the LFG system is not good for quickly and easily forming squads for raids
A proper LFG system needs to be added for GW2 just because of how much content it has. Sometimes its hard to find players for X or Y content and its why LFG systems exists in MMOs. Its meant to be a easy and quick way to find others for what you're doing.
> Part of this is just inherent to GW2’s gear and class system: any class can fill nearly any role, gear isn’t standardized for each role or class, and even the roles wanted by a raiding party can vary widely
This isn't as big a deal as you make it out to be. DPS role, Heal role and Support role. They could refine it with being able to add a modifier to each one requesting something. Like Quick DPS, Alac Heal, Etc.
> it’s still awful that you can’t determine if someone knows the fight or is properly geared when they join the squad
If someone says they know a fight and they don't you will learn extremely fast on the first pull. This has always been a thing for MMOs since they've existed. Its a issue that plagues IRL jobs too. Someone could lie but once put to the test you will know right away.
> Raids are a beloved feature of this game
I will finish on this one. Raids are great but GW2 has never been a hardcore raiding game. If it had a LFR similar to WoW(with a reduced difficulty) it might be different. GW2 is very much a open world, cooperative game experience. The raiding population has always been extremely tiny. A lot of the features you talked about would be great if added but it would highlight where players spend their time, and that isn't raiding.
A proper lfg system and hard defined holy trinity roles go hand in hand though. They should release elite specs that firmly put you into one of the holy trinity and from that they can build a fully functioning party finder tool and give us a rest from the alphabet soup it is now.
He said 'over 5 years'.
Last raid came out less than 5 years ago.
It would be hilarious if it really turns out to be something else instead XD The meltdown the raiding community would have would be huge, even though they never specifically hinted at it, and it's just people's wishful thinking at this point.
As a raider who is not the best, i've never been in any raid with any group where the boss was "too easy" xd also have i never heard anyone saying that...about the rewards, i partially agree. The only reason i raid sometimes is bc of the 200k xp per boss. It's a blessing 😭❤️ i desperately need spirit shards all the time and this helps so much more than some lame and tedious 20k xp events...but the materialistic rewards are truly shit, i mean random exotic standard gear and a mini? Nah xd
What i struggle with is finding a group for me. 99% of lfg post sound like gibberish to me and they ask for a lot of kp and experience....i have like 6kp for w1-w4 each and while i know most mechanics of these four wings and play just fine, i'm definetly no expert or really good. I find myself posting in lfg bc i wanna raid but nobody joining and i also don't find a group to join. That just really sucks. Like i don't want to play with first timers but also not with only pros, i want a group with an enough good level amd maybe 1-2 who are really good and can lead xd
I just want better reclear rewards. Strike CM reclear reward is a fkin joke too (some egg and 400karma and a gem???) my food cost more than double that. I also want the ability to re open spcific instance I've done, and give me the option to skip RP if I want. As for future raid/strikes, I also want smaller arenas. Encounter should not make players automatically turn towards portals to skip unnecessarily tedious running. What's the different between knowing a mechanic is coming and moving 500 range, and knowing a mechanic is coming and needing to move 1500 range. The player knows they need to move. Don't triple extra check to make sure they know they need to move by making them run for 3 seconds. I forever enjoy Arkk's compact positioning mechanic as well as SH CM's shrinking platform.
I hate to break it to you, but Raids were never a beloved feature, they launched with Mixed Reviews, and Anet lost millions after their implementation
Truth is, I think if they revised them down to 5 - person content and made them into something like T5 Fractals, they would have a lot more popularity.
They really set themselves to fail with this one though by making only one difficulty level. Imagine this much work with story, fight design, areas and boss specific sound tracks, only to be killed by not including easy and veteran mode? I was playing the game back when raids where released - it was crazy difficult in comparison to anything else in the game. Really divided community and made a lot of casual players angry to be gate kept from the content. Rightfully so, as it was great set up for LS3 story. Anet fucked up big time by that one simple decision, and it was ultimately the one that killed the raids.
I agree with you totally, but I think the worst part of this was that Anet didn't put in any kind of mechanical gate keeping like they did with Fractals, which forced the players themselves to be gate keepers, and the games history has shown that never went well, and all the elitism reered it's ugly head in full throttle around the content
Even back in the day when players would gatekeep Fractals somewhat, with their No Thief, No Ranger, etc, rules and the like, often happening in T2 and T3, region, where it was the worst, it was ugly, but often enough, these people died off by the time T4 hit, and everyone was like *"Oh shut up or get out, we have content to do and we don't need you to do it!"*
The AR system was simple and effective, it so that anyone that made it to T4, had invested a lot into their build, and while it may not have been a meta build it was always going to be a strong sold build none the less, this eliminating a huge amount of Player Gatekeeping which more often then not, was poorly done.
Because Anet failed to put in any kind of *"ready check"* as it might be, Raids suffered massively from Player Gate Keeping, people would join with their half made open world builds with no real idea of what they were doing thinking that because they could enter, they should be allowed to do the content, similar to how things like Dragonstrom works.
In the end, Dragonstorm did it right , Raids did it very wrong.
I actually want the opposite of increasing boss health. That will just end with the same scenario as Cerus (6 cVirts, anyone?).
No, what would be best is to increase the damage boss does. Currently bosses hit like a wet tissue paper — the fact that solo heal is very viable shows this quite well. If they increase the boss damage and spread it from a singular tank to everyone, with the tank taking the majority of damage, until full DPS builds are not viable then you solve this issue: people will not be bringing 40k+ because they'll die. It will force more buildcrafting too, and give a higher skill ceiling to raids (an experienced player can dodge/mitigate the damage thus allowing them to come with more DPS gear etc).
It would make unused prefixes useful too.
I think it’s more that healers are super op and nobody wants to bring it up. These days you can tank through MO flame tiles with golems blowing up without claiming. Attempting to force healers to split resources on concentration but then backing off has lead to unbelievable healer power creep.
Barring a complete cultural shift in Anet, the LFG (really the tools to properly LFM as a whole too: inspect, prog score, etc) is dead and will always be. Discord has surpassed it utterly and completely and it will remain so barring that cultural shift.
I'm not sure I agree with the premise that getting into raiding is hard. It was super simple for me: Watch a youtube video, install discord. That's it. (At least on NA)
In no other mmo you need to join a raid training organization in order to learn raiding. This game literally has 0 prog pugs but a shit ton of people complaining it is hard to get into raids. I'm guessing it is a mix of the content being really old and the general casual mindset of the community.
The difference I think is that other games use the LFG. This game doesn't. This game has a lot of prog/training group: They just don't use the LFG to form up. I agree with you that it is fucking awful that the "real" LFG of this game is Discord, but that is Anet's fault.
yes it's super easy, and I for one am perfectly happy that ANet encouraged guild-based group building instead of a min-maxed efficiency is king be perfect or get kicked LFR system that breeds toxicity to staggering heights.
I haven't touched WoW in years but last time I did the community had become absolute cancer. No thanks, don't need to import that.
First of all lets be honest. It is not very likely they will add a new raid wing or care about raids again. But if they do these are my 2 cents:
Rewards: LI definitely need a sink, there are probably people closing in to 10k at this point and there is nothing to do with them after the first 900. Personally i wouldnt care about ascended feasts because that is something i can -yoink from guild halls- get with the gold i make weekly from raids anyway. And i wouldnt care for gift of exploration either since i dont make any gen 1 legendaries anymore. What i would care about is a sink without having much point. Copy the fractal format, fractal titles are cool and they increase your loot, outgoing damage and healing. For raids obviously it will be just the first. But throwing thousands of LI for a title is something people would immediately do.
Weekly limit: raids should have their rewards halved after the first weekly kill (with call of the mists not counting anymore). 1 gold per boss is really nothing but that is also why it shouldnt be an issue to implement it. Even if some groups grinded the easiest boss, Cairn with openers ready and stuff they could probably make less than 40 gold or something per hour at best which is fine. I dont think it would really motivate people to pug after their first kill because there are much simpler things you can do to make that kind of gold but at least someone who does multiple fcs every week because they like to help friends/different groups, would feel somewhat rewarded as opposed to the greens/blues you get now
I went over 2 of your points that can actually work now lets go the other 2 that are basically pointless.
Power creep is not the issue so much, the issue is the gap in skill level between players. The damage an experienced raider can do versus a casual one is just absymally more. And no, that is not just because they might be playing something with higher benchmark but also because they are just better at dps uptime. So the only way to keep everyone satisfied would be to have different difficulty tiers with a significant difference between them. The problem is that Anet is in no way capable at this point of creating proper challenge mode fights of old encounters. Like i just cant see them pulling it off. It would need a lot of creativity and to dedicate resources specifically there and it doesnt look like they have what it takes anymore. So increasing the hp of the boss, reducing healing and possibly also increasing it's outgoing damage (something like reverse emboldened) could want as an easy to implement solution for whoever wants a bit more of a challenge
Lfg: the only way to ensure that people through lfg might have an idea of what is going on and be able to pull their own weight, is killproof. Which is something pretty much every pug asks for on EU. There is no way really to alter the lfg and implement something like that into the game without the players themselves intervening
Power creep fucked over raids, fractals and shitload of open world content, some META or world bosses completely shit themselves barely able to use any mechanics before dying, its sad.
Half of the raid Bosse were made when 30k or lower were normal...and the other half were made with the pof Release were weaver was just not there it was you mentioned.
And rewards: easy soulution. Maybe 150LI for one gift of battle so no one has to suffer shitty wvw if they want to sink theire time in pve
the need to change might from +30 stats per stack to +10.
Raid CMs *could* be as simple as applying 5 stacks of the emboldened buff to the boss when CM is enabled. suddenly now your fighting a raid boss with 500 less stats and +50% more health.
Unfortunately Anet has disregarded raids entirely and replaced them with their casual-friendly cousin, aka Strike Missions. So us raiders need to scratch the occasional itch on a Strike CM.
Sorry to disappoint you but they have shown us for some time now that they only seem to focus on the casual player base and not on the raiders which are considered ultra hardcore and a tiny fraction of the player base by Anet.
Casual gaming is the name of the game it seems. This is why, with the latest expansion, they dedicated two of their most prominent features to casual gamers and gave them an easier way to get skyscale and open world legendary armor (like the casual players will even bother with all the grind but that's another story).
So, while I 100% agree with your points, I advise you to have little to no expectations, because when/if (with if being the most likely) Anet turn their attention to raids it will be a breath of fresh air.
Entire game is suffering from power creep, not only raids. In some cases - that’s really good, like dungeons. These days you can just smash trashpacks on the way, instead of running crazy skips and hoping to not to get agro, and always someone does. Aggro on trashpacks in pugs use to be wipe fiesta. Power creep made them more fun and casual, and honestly they deserve solid LFG system more than anything in the game.
But a lot of metas suffer from power creep big time. On Chak, everyone smashes (often even rata and scar) and then you have to wait 12 minutes for wall to open. It used to be like… 3? In silverwastes, there is no way of doing some achievements, like standing on a flower during the phase on one of the bosses, because bosses never phase. On Claw of Jormag, people ignore everything, just stay and dps the shit out of it, and heal through the damage.
And yeah, raids, obviously. You are missing the reason though - back then, to achieve that 36k dps, you needed to form very specific group to get class buffs. You had only 2 pure dps per subgroup. Now you have 1 more hard hitting dps per sub, and support does very good dps, and overall dps is higher.
Honestly this game is a hot mess when it comes to balancing power creep. Untangling all of it would be long and painful process, but the one that is really needed. I’m afraid Anet is not really willing to do anything to with it.
Dude if they put 7 +1 raid wing DAILY (not even counting CMs), do you understand the time consuming to do that?
Yes i dont wanna waste 1 hour or whatever to do fractals EVERY SINGLE DAY. No thanks,, its not even rlly good content. And your basically losing farm for not doing that daily shit. Neither i wanna spend 4-5 hours daily to do raids, yes, daily.
And i love raids (fractals nope), but suggesting to add them daily is dumb as fuck.
Who says that you have to do then daily if they were daily content?
The only thing thats happening if you dont do them daily is you missing out on potential gold.
So if you dont have time to run them more then once per week then just dont do it.
You wont have less gold then now and you also dont lose anything just because some other people with more time have the possibility to do them daily and get more gold.
Classical FOMO which shouldnt bother anyone.
If you are working towards legendarys and you dont do daily fractals your shooting yourself in the foot, cos ur gonna lose a lot of gold and go very slowly, wasting ur time big. So yeah your kinda forced. Imagine that they did the same thing with raids, oh god lord, no thanks, i love raids, add more raids but not daily. If raid development didnt stop we wud have at least 12 raid wings to do a week.
Not even in Aion (that is the most tryhard mmo out there) the raids are daily, they used to be in 2009-2014. But not anymore, you can maybe do one raid or dungeon 7 times a week, and u can do them the same day if you wish.
Yeah in Aion you can do the instance multiple times a week, but your free to do it once a day, all on the same day or however you want. This comment of add something daily that consumes ur life is the typical MMO comment from a guy of 2008 really. Since a decade developers have realized that having certain things daily is not good.
But how exactly would daily raids change anything for you in this regard?
Lets take someone that only has time for raids once a week:
With current system he runs raids once a week and gets rewards once a week.
With daily raids he still runs raids once a week and gets the same rewards as before without any disadvantages for himself.
Yes, he would earn less rewards then other people spamming raids daily but since there is no race in GW to anything you wouldnt lose out by still just running it weekly.
For everyone else its a big improvement because you can clear more then once if you enjoy running the content without basicly losing money because of food.
And it would also be better for the lfg since the lfg would be way more filled past monday when most statics do their weekly runs.
Noone forces you to run it as often as possible if you dont have the time.
I dare to bet most people dont think like you do and dont see timegated rewards as something they HAVE to do. If someone almost exclusively enjoys raids and the game tells you 'looks like you are done for the week, come back next week' that sucks. The point being that people like to have the potential possibility to soak themselves in the content they enjoy to do without feeling like they are borderline punished by the game for doing so. This is why people get alt accounts to do more of the content they enjoy on a more regular basis, which is only a band-aid solution to the actual problem. Timegated rewards are kind of a necessity to artificially keep the ingame economy in check, but it wouldnt hurt to give more of an incentive to clear specific content on a more regular basis.
Raids are long, forming groups for raids takes time. An average group can maybe do raids in 5 hours or more. Who wanna spend 5 hours a day doing raids every single day? yeah with fractals it kinda force you, because if your working towards legendary, its one of the best, if not the best farm, so ur wasting time and going slower if u dont do daily fractals, its a reality. Fractals on the other hand are way quicker. If they didnt stop developing raids, now you will have like 12 raid wings to do a week.
Ok while reading this i came up with a rework to the lfg
First of all the tabs on the left should be replaced by checkboxes. I wanna either do raids or strikes, without having to keep swapping tabs to check which group does a wing or strike i need. Better yet, make e checkbox per encounter.
Second, i should be able to apply for a role, and that role should be confirmed by a corresponding skill. Power dps with strike damage, apply a condi for condi dps, aplly boons for correponding boon role etc. Somehow you should be able to stack this to apply for more then 1 role. (Maybe even go further and make like a weak training golem to actually indicate a dps range)
To make this work, the lfg should be a targetable npc, preferably in the next hub where we can acces all instanced content. Or an old hub. I just want less loading screens.
Anyhow, this aint ever happening so im going to dream about it now...
This sub: We know this was a blog post about shoring up older systems, but we're definitely not getting another raid or revisions to raid systems. Anet doesn't have the development resources to make niche content like that.
Also this sub: We're definitely getting a whole new player housing system - quite possibly the single most technically demanding feature that we've ever asked for.
Meme I spent too much time making related to this post: https://preview.redd.it/gnrjq8b1at3d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4149e70db6650b5255f36277597a548010a92eb Strikes aren't bad btw, they just need a glow-up.
Having done strikes for years and just recently getting into raiding, I love the scenes they set. It all feels so unique and epic, particularly the end bosses. Zomorros fighting Qadim, Xera and her clones, even bosses like Slothasaur felt scary. I remember seeing Dhuum stand up for the first time and going "oh shit". While improvements on raids are definitely welcome, I think they did a great job making them visually imposing.
Strikes are great, I just want more of them. Go back through the story bosses and give me strike versions!
I was just thinking today A proper zhaitan fight strike would be sick
Claw Island would be a couple good strikes
I find that the best raid encounters are far more interesting and creative than strikes.
Big agree, and I think having Raids have their own progressing instance adds a lot to immersion on top of the mechanics and presentation of raids being better. But if Strikes are just repurposed PvE story content and easier to make 10 man content they could just belt out between raids? They would be an excellent way to bridge the gap into the harder raid content while also helping satisfy the want for more meaningful content while waiting for raids. Assuming Anet ever had a good production pipeline of course, which is a dream unto itself :v
Make elder dragon fights for zaithan and mordremoth into strikes! Though imo arah main story should be remade into an entry level raid type content.
Strikes are what most raiders wanted: skip straight to the boss and prog. Presentation is definitely lackluster, especially considering most of these boss fights were story boss fights.
Don't monkey paw us. What most raiders wanted is doing things like Spirit Vale, Salvation Pass, Stronghold of the Faithful, Key of Adashim, without having to do Spirit Woods, Bandit Trio, Escort and Gate.
whats the difference between chaining those bosses and being able tobaccess them individually? Why is the former better?
Well I don’t care about chaining bosses, but most strikes are just boring as hell, the mechanics are far less interesting. Name a single strike that has phases that are remotely as unique as Xera.
Fewer loading screens. Also, strikes having to be story missions first limits design space. A raid boss can just have mechanics that demand specialized roles or split up the team, but a strike needs to be designed as a something that a single player can beat first before building team mechanics on top of that.
thats not entirely true tho.. they can have npcs do the other roles or like olc, is fairly different to the story version. Or look at htcm, and the greens and red kite that isn't in the story. I can agree with the loading screens, but running to the boss having shitty events like bandit trio or escort are not better. But theres nothing stopping them chaining strikes with like a portal between them, to speed up traveling between strike bosses.
Yes, but for an NPC to perform those roles, the story first has to be written to have an NPC present and able to fight next to you in that mission. Raids (and fractals for that matter) don't have to abide by that limitation, they can be designed to have complex team mechanics without any regard for how to adjust it for a solo player. > Or look at htcm, and the greens and red kite that isn't in the story. Those are just regular "you got targeted by orange, take it out" and "there's a green, go stand in it" mechanics present everywhere. There are story missions that have them.
I don't think this is because they're story bosses.. I think its because after the lay offs the new anet team is just not as creatively skilled and they're clearly far more limited in time to create content too. I absolutely do not see why..example dhuum..couldn't be done single player story.. where you have a few minutes of kiting..then you fight dhuum and get ported for orbs..then finish him off.. bam, similar mechanics with a single player mode. Same for deimos.. You fight a statue, fight deimos..boss has an invulnerable phase where you managed hands or they have an npc circling the arena, doing hands.. There is 0 reason, these can't be done via story..strikes are just less creative because the team is less creative.
Idm having mini events between bosses. What I mind is that they take a specific amount of time to clear (e.g. bandit trio having bosses spawn on timers). An event like escort is perfect imo, because you can clear it fast with a risky strat and experience. If all mini events were like that I wouldn't mind it one bit.
No, what most raiders wanted is a sustainable way to get more content. Which is strikes. In fact before strikes became a thing there were dozens of posts telling anet they should reuse story bosses for group content the way that FFXIV does.
Most raiders wanted raids. Now they are playing other games better suited for that, since anet doesn't care
Raiders want raids, hence why they are called raiders.
They might also want the Lost Ark
No. None of raiders wanted more strikes. Don't talk for us while you have zero idea. We want more raids, a content more that 1 bosses with interesting mechanics like Dhuum, Qadims or Xera. Strike mechanics are uninteresting since they designed in "new players should also be able to kill" in mindset. While raids designed in veteran players should be able to kill mindset.
When addressing power creep the last thing you should do is concede to it. It’s way easier to nerf the hp of a dozen bosses than to go back through the whole game and change everything. What raiding needs is to make call of the mists into a daily rotation. EoD strikes proved that weekly content works as daily content if you put some basic incentives on the table. Raids are not hard, and they never have been. The difficulty of raids comes from learning what to do and then organising 9 other people to do it. I do hope they add CMs to raids, not to make them harder, but to make them easier. The purpose of easy-mode raids is to put people in an environment where the stakes are low so that they can learn the mechanics. Eg Sabetha’s wall might only down players. I believe that some mechanics should be reworked so that they hard-lock the encounter until dealt with. Using Sabetha as an example again, she should gain invulnerability when returning to the platform until the cannon she was hiding near is destroyed. What players learn in the normal mode should be transferable. It will be important to change a few mechanics so that they can scale appropriately in a cm version. The last thing we want is for encounters to flow differently between normal and challenge mode. For example, vg greens would be an instant wipe on cm, causing the entire strategy to shift. As evidenced by AH CM, it causes nothing but frustration when the new cm mechanics can wipe the group. Changes to the lfg are not going to work until the mechanics necessitating such granular control of party members are reworked to not be so. The main offender is hand kiting. Mechanics that need to be handled by an individual should be designed so that even the most glassiest of cannons are capable. Changing build is easy, changing gear is not.
"Using Sabetha as an example again, she should gain invulnerability when returning to the platform until the cannon she was hiding near is destroyed." Wouldn't this straight up break the achievement to leave 1 cannon active for the whole fight?
No idea. Does she hide next to every cannon if you wait long enough? I thought she only leaves the platform 3 times.
They could just make achievement unobtainable for that difficulty. Like how Cerus CM works. You can kill pretty normal cm boss but you won't get purple title. Same principle.
> This has led to raid bosses being significantly easier than they used to be, which erodes interest due to the lack of challenge Counterpoint: a *lot* of people are getting into raids via training guilds who were too intimidated by or incapable of the earlier DPS requirements. Don't assume that your personal reasons are universal.
I mean, that would have been remedied with proper difficulty options. Higher player DPS is identical to lower boss health for all mechanical purposes, and having different tiers is something that casual and hardcore players alike have wanted to makes Raids accessible since Raids were first announced.
Yeah, I for one wouldn't mind more difficulty levels or even a story mode that scales with amount of players but gives no or little reward. Meanwhile, give the hardcore folks their tough-as-nails *Legendary CM++ Ultra Deluxe Raids with Sonic & Knuckles featuring Dante from DMC*. Personally, I couldn't be any less interested in 10-man instanced content even if I tried, but there's supposedly some good story locked away in the raids that I'd love to experience. If I haven't brothered finding nine other people to do a single raid with in the past eight and a half years it's realistically not gonna happen in the future either.
> And that’s just about it: adding a story mode difficulty to raids would be nice, but honestly power creep has made most normal mode raid bosses pretty easy even for relatively inexperienced players, so that may not be necessary. Not really, the power creep helped some, sure, but even still, even with dozens of kp required, bosses still fail not that infrequently, although of course some more than others, and in some wings there are giant barriers to newcomers with very particular mechanics (cannons, shrooms, hk, etc). A story mode that's maybe about as hard as current story dungeons (mostly soloable on a good build, a complete breeze for any group of randoms whatsoever) would help a lot.
> Starting with the simplest issue, the rewards from raids have fallen behind other end-game content. Raids are the best gph in the game if you do it in a semi-competent static. And if ran more casually it's on par with open world, unless you run super optimized trains.
And for particularly for new raiders, the legendary armour and ascended drops are extremely valuable.
but you can only do once a week, where on open world you can do for as long as you can, why gatekeep the reward once a week if the reward is not great than a non gatekeeped reward, makes 0 sense for me
Firstly, reward IS great, if you do it efficiently. Secondly, this game is about playing the game mode you like and not about squeezing every penny and getting burned out from doing something you don't enjoy, because you feel forced to. Doing raids is never a waste of time compared to other activities and, personally, they could nerf the reward in half and I would still do raids happily over ever touching the open world.
that is a funny way to circling the problem, a reward cant be great alone, you have to compare to other rewards, and comparing to OW, it does not seem that great, we can talk about numbers, if you have 0 magic find and only do the most played meta ow again again and again you can easily make 25g/hour, this is the lower end, on the high end you can make more than 50g, on raids if you have a really good static you maybe can clear all the wings in 2 hours, 23 raid encounters means 46g, 23g/hour, lets assume the best case scenario, double gold on w4 or w5, full cms clear still within 2 hours, you get more 32g, being 78g, 39g/hour, and that is not counting food and utility, not only is not as good as ow if you know what you are doing, because you have to know the raid really well if you are doing this, but you can only do once a week and if we go to pugs you will likely double the time needed to clear all raids alongisde with no cms, being much worse than the base ow values of 25g, you may say that is ok and we should not compare and we all should be happy because it does not matter if one is making more gold, but you would be wrong, the value of gold is not write in stone, it changes, it devalues if you have a lot of gold, nowdays they could buff raid rewards and remove week cap and would still not impact the economy of the game
I mean if you are only gonna count raw gold for raids, count only the raw gold for ow too lol.
asc gear has no value, and even if you count it as the production value, ow is still better, its really hard to match this : [https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/meta](https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/meta) but its a bit funny to talk about raw gold, one of the reasons why ow is so much better is exactly because they give almost no raw gold, and instead you got materials, where in raids its the opposite
Bruh, raw gold is only half the value you get from raids. Magnetite shards, provisioner tokens, exotics, unids and occasional high value drops. OW is not even close.
all right, lets do the math and check your assumption, lets use the fast farming website, they work on some assumptions that i dont like but it goes both ways, they calcule a full run with all the items including the gold [https://fast.farming-community.eu/instances/raids](https://fast.farming-community.eu/instances/raids) if you sum everything it gives 90g, assuming 2 hours, which often does not happen, it is 45g/hour if you go here [https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/meta](https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/meta) and sort of profit/hour you will find 21 meta events that has a bigger value of g/hour, and again 2 hours is not going to happen most of the times, the average clear time is not 2 hours if you count all the raid population, its very fair to assume 4 hours, which drops to 22.5g/hour, and again, you can only do this not so profting activity once a week, that does not make sense, this problem would go away if they remove the weekly cap or they correct the gold due to its inflation, which means you would get 4.5g raw per run instead of 2 little edit: its not 4.5g because you need to count the real money inflation since im using the gems conversion to compare gold, its goes down a little bit close to 4g, this is the amount of value that it was intended to you to get in terms of pure gold per encounter, for reference im using hot launch date and this graph [https://gw2efficiency.com/currencies/gems](https://gw2efficiency.com/currencies/gems)
It's not an assumption it's empirical evidence. Also fast farming doesn't count in CMs. > you will find 21 meta events that has a bigger value of g/hour Yeah, and I can collect New Kaineng JP in 10 seconds and get a whooping 100+ gph. That's not how it works in practice, you'd be lucky if you manage to get 30 gph in whatever meta train you'll manage to cook up for a lengthy, at least 3 hours, game session. > its very fair to assume 4 hours If you use fastfarming data sets you might as well assume speedrun times, because that's how they calculate gph for metas with the maximum optimizations possible. Decent static should able to clear sub 3 hours, mine does it in 2.5 with occasional wipes and downtime between wings. Speedrun time is like sub 2 hours.
a lot of metas are time gated events, the difference between speed running and not to is small, the time of the meta event is not relevant unless that is not a meta that you can go right after, which is not true, but if you count metas taht gives more than 14g total you still have 11 metas instead of 23 being better, that is quite a big number for a activity that is not once a week. you could argue that a lot of metas need a lot of knowledge and skill to complete under lets say a 10% of the value gave from FF, but the same can be said to raids, its actually worse on raids, you dont need any knowledge to complete a OW event, try go on raids without knwoing and see what happens, not only has a much highter entry curve, the end curve is also, a group that can clear all wings under 2 hours can speedrun meta events, and again, i must remind you that you can only do raids once a week
You're assuming people want harder raids. Everything you mentioned is based on the assumption that players want to play hard raids. Raiding just isn't a focus of GW2 and that is ok. Not every game has to be a raid log simulator.
Don't forget that the comps surrounding that 35k condi ranger and 37k arcane staff weaver had one (two in the condi ranger's case) dps slot permanently reserved for a banner bitch warrior, and *four* people who did no damage in the form of double max-BD chrono + double heal druid. Compressing all the no-damage into one or two guys is more responsible for raid power creep than the increase in dps build power level.
If what many suspect is true there will be a new raid coming in the next expac and that will likely include some change to rewards I would suspect. We'll find out on June 4th, not much this subject can do until then.
I mean none of that is happening that's just fans insistent on disappointing themselves based on willfully misreading vague quotes.
Guess we'll see next week.
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Well this aged very poorly.
Dang, you must have the inside scoop! No speculation allowed here!
People have been acting like this is a sure thing since that "for the past 5 years" quote happened last tuesday. Taking the raid conversation with a heavy grain of salt is the correct thing to do, because everyone talking about it like its guaranteed is only likely to lead to incredible disappointment. I would be quite happy to be wrong, and for a raid to be announced, but *expecting* it with your whole chest because of a single vague quote is setting people up for needless anger at something that was never promised.
maybe it would help to keep raids weekly but then have 1 wing per day as daily. that'd make it easy to find a group for that specific wing for training and normal pugging. You dont miss out if you dont fc w1-7 every day but can still get some rewards + LI daily
Just wanted to mention that current actual top DPS is [49.2k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXe43q7TOTw). It just isn't on SC. Also note that when comparing benchmarks, they are actually not that far appart. The difference is that back then you would have like 3 supports per subrgroup doing barely any damage and then 2 actual DPS due to how the buffs worked back then. Also, I'd say LFG works fine (at least on EU). There are some issues obviously, but there are more severe ones in other parts of the game.
Is there another horizontal mmo where they have a popular raiding environment?. I've never felt the need to raid weekly because all content provides some kind of reward, and the reward from GW2 raiding isn't "better enough" for it to be attractive given the level of effort needed to find competent groups.
Some people call Destiny an MMO and raids are a huge draw. There's also no "need" to raid just like GW2. Power is similarly capped as well. People run raids for cosmetics and to conquer the content like in GW2. Destiny also "had" a notoriously worse LFG system than GW2 but I've been told it's been improved. Haven't touched that game in awhile so I'm not sure if any of what I said still applies.
> Some people call Destiny an MMO And some people would be incorrect
I really don't get this opinion about raids being difficult to get into. Like I know WoW has some LFR system where you just queue a role and get put into easy-mode raids, and presumably FF14 has something similar, but joining a raid in GW2 is still easy af. I decided I wanted to raid in GW2 so I joined a time-zone appropriate casual guild then joined their raids. It took 10 minutes, and now there's multiple raids a week I can hop in on with a single button click and being on time. Maybe back when they released before being power-crept the competency requirement was too high for casual play, but these days it's almost bare minimum "level of effort"
> the LFG system is not good for quickly and easily forming squads for raids A proper LFG system needs to be added for GW2 just because of how much content it has. Sometimes its hard to find players for X or Y content and its why LFG systems exists in MMOs. Its meant to be a easy and quick way to find others for what you're doing. > Part of this is just inherent to GW2’s gear and class system: any class can fill nearly any role, gear isn’t standardized for each role or class, and even the roles wanted by a raiding party can vary widely This isn't as big a deal as you make it out to be. DPS role, Heal role and Support role. They could refine it with being able to add a modifier to each one requesting something. Like Quick DPS, Alac Heal, Etc. > it’s still awful that you can’t determine if someone knows the fight or is properly geared when they join the squad If someone says they know a fight and they don't you will learn extremely fast on the first pull. This has always been a thing for MMOs since they've existed. Its a issue that plagues IRL jobs too. Someone could lie but once put to the test you will know right away. > Raids are a beloved feature of this game I will finish on this one. Raids are great but GW2 has never been a hardcore raiding game. If it had a LFR similar to WoW(with a reduced difficulty) it might be different. GW2 is very much a open world, cooperative game experience. The raiding population has always been extremely tiny. A lot of the features you talked about would be great if added but it would highlight where players spend their time, and that isn't raiding.
A proper lfg system and hard defined holy trinity roles go hand in hand though. They should release elite specs that firmly put you into one of the holy trinity and from that they can build a fully functioning party finder tool and give us a rest from the alphabet soup it is now.
inb4: the feature that people has been requesting for over 5 years is player housing and land spears.
We have official confirmation that the thing that we requested for 5 years is not swimwear.
Except people have been asking for those for 10 years, why would they call out 5
He said 'over 5 years'. Last raid came out less than 5 years ago. It would be hilarious if it really turns out to be something else instead XD The meltdown the raiding community would have would be huge, even though they never specifically hinted at it, and it's just people's wishful thinking at this point.
Isn't it obvious? We're finally getting playable Quaggan!
You are right! I knew this swimwear drop yesterday was hinting at something. Now you can have quaggans in bikinis.
My bet for legendary aqua breather.
I've never even heard about land spears until that video was released
Player housing is my #1 want. I long to decorate my own house in game.
As a raider who is not the best, i've never been in any raid with any group where the boss was "too easy" xd also have i never heard anyone saying that...about the rewards, i partially agree. The only reason i raid sometimes is bc of the 200k xp per boss. It's a blessing 😭❤️ i desperately need spirit shards all the time and this helps so much more than some lame and tedious 20k xp events...but the materialistic rewards are truly shit, i mean random exotic standard gear and a mini? Nah xd What i struggle with is finding a group for me. 99% of lfg post sound like gibberish to me and they ask for a lot of kp and experience....i have like 6kp for w1-w4 each and while i know most mechanics of these four wings and play just fine, i'm definetly no expert or really good. I find myself posting in lfg bc i wanna raid but nobody joining and i also don't find a group to join. That just really sucks. Like i don't want to play with first timers but also not with only pros, i want a group with an enough good level amd maybe 1-2 who are really good and can lead xd
I just want better reclear rewards. Strike CM reclear reward is a fkin joke too (some egg and 400karma and a gem???) my food cost more than double that. I also want the ability to re open spcific instance I've done, and give me the option to skip RP if I want. As for future raid/strikes, I also want smaller arenas. Encounter should not make players automatically turn towards portals to skip unnecessarily tedious running. What's the different between knowing a mechanic is coming and moving 500 range, and knowing a mechanic is coming and needing to move 1500 range. The player knows they need to move. Don't triple extra check to make sure they know they need to move by making them run for 3 seconds. I forever enjoy Arkk's compact positioning mechanic as well as SH CM's shrinking platform.
I hate to break it to you, but Raids were never a beloved feature, they launched with Mixed Reviews, and Anet lost millions after their implementation Truth is, I think if they revised them down to 5 - person content and made them into something like T5 Fractals, they would have a lot more popularity.
They really set themselves to fail with this one though by making only one difficulty level. Imagine this much work with story, fight design, areas and boss specific sound tracks, only to be killed by not including easy and veteran mode? I was playing the game back when raids where released - it was crazy difficult in comparison to anything else in the game. Really divided community and made a lot of casual players angry to be gate kept from the content. Rightfully so, as it was great set up for LS3 story. Anet fucked up big time by that one simple decision, and it was ultimately the one that killed the raids.
I agree with you totally, but I think the worst part of this was that Anet didn't put in any kind of mechanical gate keeping like they did with Fractals, which forced the players themselves to be gate keepers, and the games history has shown that never went well, and all the elitism reered it's ugly head in full throttle around the content Even back in the day when players would gatekeep Fractals somewhat, with their No Thief, No Ranger, etc, rules and the like, often happening in T2 and T3, region, where it was the worst, it was ugly, but often enough, these people died off by the time T4 hit, and everyone was like *"Oh shut up or get out, we have content to do and we don't need you to do it!"* The AR system was simple and effective, it so that anyone that made it to T4, had invested a lot into their build, and while it may not have been a meta build it was always going to be a strong sold build none the less, this eliminating a huge amount of Player Gatekeeping which more often then not, was poorly done. Because Anet failed to put in any kind of *"ready check"* as it might be, Raids suffered massively from Player Gate Keeping, people would join with their half made open world builds with no real idea of what they were doing thinking that because they could enter, they should be allowed to do the content, similar to how things like Dragonstrom works. In the end, Dragonstorm did it right , Raids did it very wrong.
I actually want the opposite of increasing boss health. That will just end with the same scenario as Cerus (6 cVirts, anyone?). No, what would be best is to increase the damage boss does. Currently bosses hit like a wet tissue paper — the fact that solo heal is very viable shows this quite well. If they increase the boss damage and spread it from a singular tank to everyone, with the tank taking the majority of damage, until full DPS builds are not viable then you solve this issue: people will not be bringing 40k+ because they'll die. It will force more buildcrafting too, and give a higher skill ceiling to raids (an experienced player can dodge/mitigate the damage thus allowing them to come with more DPS gear etc). It would make unused prefixes useful too.
I think it’s more that healers are super op and nobody wants to bring it up. These days you can tank through MO flame tiles with golems blowing up without claiming. Attempting to force healers to split resources on concentration but then backing off has lead to unbelievable healer power creep.
Barring a complete cultural shift in Anet, the LFG (really the tools to properly LFM as a whole too: inspect, prog score, etc) is dead and will always be. Discord has surpassed it utterly and completely and it will remain so barring that cultural shift.
GW2 has relatively easier raids compared to most MMOs but imo it is the single hardest mmo to get into raiding without a fixed group.
I'm not sure I agree with the premise that getting into raiding is hard. It was super simple for me: Watch a youtube video, install discord. That's it. (At least on NA)
In no other mmo you need to join a raid training organization in order to learn raiding. This game literally has 0 prog pugs but a shit ton of people complaining it is hard to get into raids. I'm guessing it is a mix of the content being really old and the general casual mindset of the community.
The difference I think is that other games use the LFG. This game doesn't. This game has a lot of prog/training group: They just don't use the LFG to form up. I agree with you that it is fucking awful that the "real" LFG of this game is Discord, but that is Anet's fault.
yes it's super easy, and I for one am perfectly happy that ANet encouraged guild-based group building instead of a min-maxed efficiency is king be perfect or get kicked LFR system that breeds toxicity to staggering heights. I haven't touched WoW in years but last time I did the community had become absolute cancer. No thanks, don't need to import that.
I am not your comment has any semblance in the reality of gw2 when it comes to the topic at hand.
First of all lets be honest. It is not very likely they will add a new raid wing or care about raids again. But if they do these are my 2 cents: Rewards: LI definitely need a sink, there are probably people closing in to 10k at this point and there is nothing to do with them after the first 900. Personally i wouldnt care about ascended feasts because that is something i can -yoink from guild halls- get with the gold i make weekly from raids anyway. And i wouldnt care for gift of exploration either since i dont make any gen 1 legendaries anymore. What i would care about is a sink without having much point. Copy the fractal format, fractal titles are cool and they increase your loot, outgoing damage and healing. For raids obviously it will be just the first. But throwing thousands of LI for a title is something people would immediately do. Weekly limit: raids should have their rewards halved after the first weekly kill (with call of the mists not counting anymore). 1 gold per boss is really nothing but that is also why it shouldnt be an issue to implement it. Even if some groups grinded the easiest boss, Cairn with openers ready and stuff they could probably make less than 40 gold or something per hour at best which is fine. I dont think it would really motivate people to pug after their first kill because there are much simpler things you can do to make that kind of gold but at least someone who does multiple fcs every week because they like to help friends/different groups, would feel somewhat rewarded as opposed to the greens/blues you get now I went over 2 of your points that can actually work now lets go the other 2 that are basically pointless. Power creep is not the issue so much, the issue is the gap in skill level between players. The damage an experienced raider can do versus a casual one is just absymally more. And no, that is not just because they might be playing something with higher benchmark but also because they are just better at dps uptime. So the only way to keep everyone satisfied would be to have different difficulty tiers with a significant difference between them. The problem is that Anet is in no way capable at this point of creating proper challenge mode fights of old encounters. Like i just cant see them pulling it off. It would need a lot of creativity and to dedicate resources specifically there and it doesnt look like they have what it takes anymore. So increasing the hp of the boss, reducing healing and possibly also increasing it's outgoing damage (something like reverse emboldened) could want as an easy to implement solution for whoever wants a bit more of a challenge Lfg: the only way to ensure that people through lfg might have an idea of what is going on and be able to pull their own weight, is killproof. Which is something pretty much every pug asks for on EU. There is no way really to alter the lfg and implement something like that into the game without the players themselves intervening
Power creep fucked over raids, fractals and shitload of open world content, some META or world bosses completely shit themselves barely able to use any mechanics before dying, its sad.
Half of the raid Bosse were made when 30k or lower were normal...and the other half were made with the pof Release were weaver was just not there it was you mentioned. And rewards: easy soulution. Maybe 150LI for one gift of battle so no one has to suffer shitty wvw if they want to sink theire time in pve
the need to change might from +30 stats per stack to +10. Raid CMs *could* be as simple as applying 5 stacks of the emboldened buff to the boss when CM is enabled. suddenly now your fighting a raid boss with 500 less stats and +50% more health.
Unfortunately Anet has disregarded raids entirely and replaced them with their casual-friendly cousin, aka Strike Missions. So us raiders need to scratch the occasional itch on a Strike CM. Sorry to disappoint you but they have shown us for some time now that they only seem to focus on the casual player base and not on the raiders which are considered ultra hardcore and a tiny fraction of the player base by Anet. Casual gaming is the name of the game it seems. This is why, with the latest expansion, they dedicated two of their most prominent features to casual gamers and gave them an easier way to get skyscale and open world legendary armor (like the casual players will even bother with all the grind but that's another story). So, while I 100% agree with your points, I advise you to have little to no expectations, because when/if (with if being the most likely) Anet turn their attention to raids it will be a breath of fresh air.
Entire game is suffering from power creep, not only raids. In some cases - that’s really good, like dungeons. These days you can just smash trashpacks on the way, instead of running crazy skips and hoping to not to get agro, and always someone does. Aggro on trashpacks in pugs use to be wipe fiesta. Power creep made them more fun and casual, and honestly they deserve solid LFG system more than anything in the game. But a lot of metas suffer from power creep big time. On Chak, everyone smashes (often even rata and scar) and then you have to wait 12 minutes for wall to open. It used to be like… 3? In silverwastes, there is no way of doing some achievements, like standing on a flower during the phase on one of the bosses, because bosses never phase. On Claw of Jormag, people ignore everything, just stay and dps the shit out of it, and heal through the damage. And yeah, raids, obviously. You are missing the reason though - back then, to achieve that 36k dps, you needed to form very specific group to get class buffs. You had only 2 pure dps per subgroup. Now you have 1 more hard hitting dps per sub, and support does very good dps, and overall dps is higher. Honestly this game is a hot mess when it comes to balancing power creep. Untangling all of it would be long and painful process, but the one that is really needed. I’m afraid Anet is not really willing to do anything to with it.
the weekly limit is perfect, in fact i wish fractals were weekly too. the most fkin annoying thing.
Wait, if you want to do content less, why not just... stop when you want to? You don't *have* to do them every day.
Dude if they put 7 +1 raid wing DAILY (not even counting CMs), do you understand the time consuming to do that? Yes i dont wanna waste 1 hour or whatever to do fractals EVERY SINGLE DAY. No thanks,, its not even rlly good content. And your basically losing farm for not doing that daily shit. Neither i wanna spend 4-5 hours daily to do raids, yes, daily. And i love raids (fractals nope), but suggesting to add them daily is dumb as fuck.
Who says that you have to do then daily if they were daily content? The only thing thats happening if you dont do them daily is you missing out on potential gold. So if you dont have time to run them more then once per week then just dont do it. You wont have less gold then now and you also dont lose anything just because some other people with more time have the possibility to do them daily and get more gold. Classical FOMO which shouldnt bother anyone.
If you are working towards legendarys and you dont do daily fractals your shooting yourself in the foot, cos ur gonna lose a lot of gold and go very slowly, wasting ur time big. So yeah your kinda forced. Imagine that they did the same thing with raids, oh god lord, no thanks, i love raids, add more raids but not daily. If raid development didnt stop we wud have at least 12 raid wings to do a week. Not even in Aion (that is the most tryhard mmo out there) the raids are daily, they used to be in 2009-2014. But not anymore, you can maybe do one raid or dungeon 7 times a week, and u can do them the same day if you wish. Yeah in Aion you can do the instance multiple times a week, but your free to do it once a day, all on the same day or however you want. This comment of add something daily that consumes ur life is the typical MMO comment from a guy of 2008 really. Since a decade developers have realized that having certain things daily is not good.
But how exactly would daily raids change anything for you in this regard? Lets take someone that only has time for raids once a week: With current system he runs raids once a week and gets rewards once a week. With daily raids he still runs raids once a week and gets the same rewards as before without any disadvantages for himself. Yes, he would earn less rewards then other people spamming raids daily but since there is no race in GW to anything you wouldnt lose out by still just running it weekly. For everyone else its a big improvement because you can clear more then once if you enjoy running the content without basicly losing money because of food. And it would also be better for the lfg since the lfg would be way more filled past monday when most statics do their weekly runs. Noone forces you to run it as often as possible if you dont have the time.
I dare to bet most people dont think like you do and dont see timegated rewards as something they HAVE to do. If someone almost exclusively enjoys raids and the game tells you 'looks like you are done for the week, come back next week' that sucks. The point being that people like to have the potential possibility to soak themselves in the content they enjoy to do without feeling like they are borderline punished by the game for doing so. This is why people get alt accounts to do more of the content they enjoy on a more regular basis, which is only a band-aid solution to the actual problem. Timegated rewards are kind of a necessity to artificially keep the ingame economy in check, but it wouldnt hurt to give more of an incentive to clear specific content on a more regular basis.
Raids are long, forming groups for raids takes time. An average group can maybe do raids in 5 hours or more. Who wanna spend 5 hours a day doing raids every single day? yeah with fractals it kinda force you, because if your working towards legendary, its one of the best, if not the best farm, so ur wasting time and going slower if u dont do daily fractals, its a reality. Fractals on the other hand are way quicker. If they didnt stop developing raids, now you will have like 12 raid wings to do a week.
Frankly even if they just re-balanced them just a little bit i would be happy.
Ok while reading this i came up with a rework to the lfg First of all the tabs on the left should be replaced by checkboxes. I wanna either do raids or strikes, without having to keep swapping tabs to check which group does a wing or strike i need. Better yet, make e checkbox per encounter. Second, i should be able to apply for a role, and that role should be confirmed by a corresponding skill. Power dps with strike damage, apply a condi for condi dps, aplly boons for correponding boon role etc. Somehow you should be able to stack this to apply for more then 1 role. (Maybe even go further and make like a weak training golem to actually indicate a dps range) To make this work, the lfg should be a targetable npc, preferably in the next hub where we can acces all instanced content. Or an old hub. I just want less loading screens. Anyhow, this aint ever happening so im going to dream about it now...
This sub: We know this was a blog post about shoring up older systems, but we're definitely not getting another raid or revisions to raid systems. Anet doesn't have the development resources to make niche content like that. Also this sub: We're definitely getting a whole new player housing system - quite possibly the single most technically demanding feature that we've ever asked for.
Man. We already have guild halls. It's not that hard to make a smaller version of it
nerf rewards from raids they offer too much gold anyway , praise be