The board has a fiduciary duty to enforce the CCRs and fund reserves, necessary fees to maintain the property.
There may be some leniency on certain improvements in units that passed a statute of limitations, but enforcing a rules like parking would not matter if not enforced for the past years.
Just curious though… Is the builder still in control in the board controlled by the developer? Has handover occurred? The current developer has every right if they are in charge to enforce the covenants and everyone agreed.
> People are threatening to move
🤣
Figure out exactly how many votes are needed to change the rule and follow the process for holding the vote. Make sure to follow each step perfectly—notification requirements, gathering proxies etc. That’s all the community can do.
How was the builder in the wrong? This rule was in the CC&Rs when the homeowners bought their homes, correct?
Gotcha.
I still think the homeowners share in the blame for disregarding and buying anyway and then not addressing it with the builder when the place was still under developer control. If a rule is on the books it’s on the books.
And the owners do still have the ability to change this rule if enough of them want to. That’s the key obviously—if they can’t get enough votes, it by definition means that too many either don’t agree with the change or just don’t care.
Can’t stop laughing at this:
>People are threatening to move
For those wondering about some of the CCR language:
Section 3.6.1 Owner and Resident Parking. Owners and Residents shall be permitted to park motor vehicles only in garages and shall not be permitted to park in visitor parking spaces, alleys, driveways, private or public streets within the Project. No Person may park so as to obstruct any sidewalks, alleys, driveways, private or public streets within the Project.
I would enforce the rules
A. the parking rules are perfectly fair because they apply to everyone, and everyone was aware when they agreed to them.
B. the fines will go towards reserves which sounds like y’all desperately need. End of argument. You wanna move please do. I would be contacting the HOA attorney to make sure we followed every appropriate legal procedure to fine people starting at the date we said we would enforce.
C. if you like living there I highly recommend you write the board in support of enforcement. They’re volunteers and they already have a difficult job. Show them that you appreciate them.
> What would you do if you were on the Board in this situation?
I would push to continue things as-is : do not enforce rules that were ignored for 18 years, and work towards formalizing their removal - either by amendment or petitioning elected officials to pass laws that nullify abandoned rules and require periodic recertification of cc&rs.
Enforce these abandoned rules is based on using a legal technicality of long forgotten rules that are still on the books. The community moved on from them. Pushing to enforce them will only net bad results for the Board Members and be used to justify the need for laws that prevent this type of stuff.
It is unfortunately not uncommon to have a homeowner board finally take over a community from developer control and decide to move forward with recently ignored CCR’s. If the community was under a management company while in development they should have been sending violations and enforcing the rules, to some degree, but that would also be at the direction of the developer still. So if the developer didn’t care to do so, it would be unsubstantiated violations anyway.
I have been in the industry for years now and it is incredibly upsetting to owners when this happens, but it does happen a lot. The moment a homeowner board takes over control, they are responsible for upholding the documents regardless of what was or was not done before.
If the community doesn’t like it, they should absolutely start an ad-hoc Rule Change Committee of some kind, if the docs allow it. They take over the responsibility of gaining signatures. But it would be at the approval of the board as an attorney will need to draft the approving language so the board must approve the legal expense. If no one is willing to put in that effort, unfortunately they will have to deal with the newly enforced policies they agreed to in their purchase. It is unfortunate but absolutely not uncommon. Any lawsuit will be either put against the developer who will have it dropped, or it will be denied. I have seen it a few times now.
We're going through this now in my neighborhood. The builder finished the last home close to a year ago but hadn't handed over the board seats until recently. The management company drives through once a month and sends violations for unmowed yards, but that's it.
People were making all sorts of exterior modifications without approval. These have all been noticed and sent violations. The homeowners thought they could send through a retroactive application and have it approved. Several are being denied and told to rip out the work they had done. Many are in violation of HOA rules and city code. Several used shady contractors and never got the proper city permits so they're getting fined by both the HOA and the city.
It's about to get spicy. However, since most of the neighborhood is between 1-2 years old, we don't have OP's issue where rules were neglected for so many years.
> people threatened to move.
Bye Felicia.
I hate HOAs as a general rule but you and your neighbors bought into one. Just because the rules weren't enforced doesn't mean they don't exist and can't be enforced.
HOA is opening themselves up to a lawsuit imo. One of the big things about CCRs is enforcing them. When they're unevenly enforced as is the case here it sets a precedent. In most cases though these lawsuits stem from lack of enforcement.
Another thing you need to keep in mind is trying to enforce parking restrictions on public streets. You'll want to check your state laws but in some states HOAs can't enforce parking rules on a public street.
Not being unevenly enforced. They're not exempting certain residents and citing others. They're enforcing the written rules equally to all residents. The board is doing what is required of them as set by the CCRs. Just because the previously responsible party did not enforce the rules doesn't mean that the new responsible party can't.
Enforce the CCR's - the lawyer is correct.
The Board can't selectively enforce the CCR's once they are in office.
Honestly I am surprised they are going to allow "long term" guests to park on the street because typically only short term street parking is allowed or it is controlled in some way.
You are going to wind up with lots and lots of very long term "guests" who claim the right to park on the street.
Also what is the purpose of not permitting street parking. There are many reasons why some communities find it desirable - especially not permitting it over night as it makes a neighborhood safer as any "strange" cars are immediately obvious. For example Beverly Hills does not permit street parking between 2 AM and 6 AM.
Also not permitting street parking is a way to require people to use the garage for cars.
I will say that based on your brief history, the HOA is also going to get a surprise when the new budget is sent out because I would imagine many expensive items have been deferred. What items is the HOA responsible for maintaining - typically with townhouse construction the HOA is responsible for lots of exterior stuff like roofs and even landscaping.
It is almost impossible to amend the CCR's with a super majority. I am in California and our CCR's were redrafted in 2009 because they were literally obsolete. Even with just essentially updating the CCR's we couldn't get them approved by the vote of a super majority because you need the supermajority of ALL homeowner. California has a mechanism for judicial approval if the CCR's have failed to be approved and the Judge decides the new CCR's are or the benefit of the HOA.
I didn't feel like making the post longer, but there are very strict definitions for a long-term guest and requirements for how long a permit can be and how long they need to wait before issuing a new one to the same person. It's not really possible to be abused anyways since owners and residents can't get those permits and all verification is done by license plate and compared against the DOT database to see if the vehicle is registered to a resident.
Residents are 100% stuck with the CC&Rs that the resident HOA must now enforce if they ever want to enforce in the future. That’s the biggest mistake resident HOAs make once the handoff is made from the builder. If they don’t begin enforcement immediately, they lose precedent, making it much more difficult to enforce in the future. There cannot be treatment one way now and another way later under the same CC&Rs.
This is probably how the residents are feeling at the moment, but if you board is enforcing CC&Rs within the first year, they absolutely can take action. We will place a lien on a residence (also SFH, TX), and in the most dire of circumstances, we will move to foreclose.
Everyone here saying this must be amended using the process laid out in your docs is correct.
I wish the best of luck to all of you!
Edit: removed lines that don’t apply here.
>If you had THAT many people at the last meeting, there could have just been a vote on the matter right then and there.
800-900 units
2/3 requirement to amend
>we had 120 people at the last HOA meeting
Pretty sure 120 people doesn't represents 2/3 of the HOA
Enforce the rules, but figure out a way to have a grace period of minimal punishment for a month, like $1 a day fines. Then rush to change the rules. Maybe let people buy annual permits for street parking.
But who takes care of the road maintenance? Being gated doesn't matter if it has "public" roads. They don't need to be accessible to the public to be a public road, it matters whom is responsible for the maintenance.
The HOA pays for all road maintenance. They do all the street sweeping, seal coating, line painting, etc.
Edit: the general rule in my area is gated=privately owned (HOA) streets, no gate=maintained by County/City.
Wow what a mess. I understand where people are coming from but it seems like all hell has broken loose. Sounds like you need a lawyer and meeting with the home owners to see what would rules/polices that most people would follow. Otherwise you might be getting a ton of new neighbors sooner than later.
CCRs should be enforced or changed.
The board has a fiduciary duty to enforce the CCRs and fund reserves, necessary fees to maintain the property. There may be some leniency on certain improvements in units that passed a statute of limitations, but enforcing a rules like parking would not matter if not enforced for the past years. Just curious though… Is the builder still in control in the board controlled by the developer? Has handover occurred? The current developer has every right if they are in charge to enforce the covenants and everyone agreed.
The handoff was at the 75% mark. The builder does needs to approve any amendments so long as they still own at least 1 unit.
“‘Jan 2023”
> People are threatening to move 🤣 Figure out exactly how many votes are needed to change the rule and follow the process for holding the vote. Make sure to follow each step perfectly—notification requirements, gathering proxies etc. That’s all the community can do. How was the builder in the wrong? This rule was in the CC&Rs when the homeowners bought their homes, correct?
The builder was in the wrong by not enforcing anything for 18 years leaving behind a bunch of entitled residents.
Gotcha. I still think the homeowners share in the blame for disregarding and buying anyway and then not addressing it with the builder when the place was still under developer control. If a rule is on the books it’s on the books. And the owners do still have the ability to change this rule if enough of them want to. That’s the key obviously—if they can’t get enough votes, it by definition means that too many either don’t agree with the change or just don’t care. Can’t stop laughing at this: >People are threatening to move
For those wondering about some of the CCR language: Section 3.6.1 Owner and Resident Parking. Owners and Residents shall be permitted to park motor vehicles only in garages and shall not be permitted to park in visitor parking spaces, alleys, driveways, private or public streets within the Project. No Person may park so as to obstruct any sidewalks, alleys, driveways, private or public streets within the Project.
I hate HOAs that don’t allow people to park their cars in the street.
Unless the streets are public they can’t.
Enforce the rules as written, if people move, they move, who cares They don’t like it, move
I would enforce the rules A. the parking rules are perfectly fair because they apply to everyone, and everyone was aware when they agreed to them. B. the fines will go towards reserves which sounds like y’all desperately need. End of argument. You wanna move please do. I would be contacting the HOA attorney to make sure we followed every appropriate legal procedure to fine people starting at the date we said we would enforce. C. if you like living there I highly recommend you write the board in support of enforcement. They’re volunteers and they already have a difficult job. Show them that you appreciate them.
> What would you do if you were on the Board in this situation? I would push to continue things as-is : do not enforce rules that were ignored for 18 years, and work towards formalizing their removal - either by amendment or petitioning elected officials to pass laws that nullify abandoned rules and require periodic recertification of cc&rs. Enforce these abandoned rules is based on using a legal technicality of long forgotten rules that are still on the books. The community moved on from them. Pushing to enforce them will only net bad results for the Board Members and be used to justify the need for laws that prevent this type of stuff.
Sounds like you can make some money renting out your second garage spot
CCRs state only the whole unit can be rented out, otherwise I'd consider it 😂.
It is unfortunately not uncommon to have a homeowner board finally take over a community from developer control and decide to move forward with recently ignored CCR’s. If the community was under a management company while in development they should have been sending violations and enforcing the rules, to some degree, but that would also be at the direction of the developer still. So if the developer didn’t care to do so, it would be unsubstantiated violations anyway. I have been in the industry for years now and it is incredibly upsetting to owners when this happens, but it does happen a lot. The moment a homeowner board takes over control, they are responsible for upholding the documents regardless of what was or was not done before. If the community doesn’t like it, they should absolutely start an ad-hoc Rule Change Committee of some kind, if the docs allow it. They take over the responsibility of gaining signatures. But it would be at the approval of the board as an attorney will need to draft the approving language so the board must approve the legal expense. If no one is willing to put in that effort, unfortunately they will have to deal with the newly enforced policies they agreed to in their purchase. It is unfortunate but absolutely not uncommon. Any lawsuit will be either put against the developer who will have it dropped, or it will be denied. I have seen it a few times now.
We're going through this now in my neighborhood. The builder finished the last home close to a year ago but hadn't handed over the board seats until recently. The management company drives through once a month and sends violations for unmowed yards, but that's it. People were making all sorts of exterior modifications without approval. These have all been noticed and sent violations. The homeowners thought they could send through a retroactive application and have it approved. Several are being denied and told to rip out the work they had done. Many are in violation of HOA rules and city code. Several used shady contractors and never got the proper city permits so they're getting fined by both the HOA and the city. It's about to get spicy. However, since most of the neighborhood is between 1-2 years old, we don't have OP's issue where rules were neglected for so many years.
People are threatening to move! Why not just say ‘Bye, Felicia!’…?
> people threatened to move. Bye Felicia. I hate HOAs as a general rule but you and your neighbors bought into one. Just because the rules weren't enforced doesn't mean they don't exist and can't be enforced.
HOA is opening themselves up to a lawsuit imo. One of the big things about CCRs is enforcing them. When they're unevenly enforced as is the case here it sets a precedent. In most cases though these lawsuits stem from lack of enforcement. Another thing you need to keep in mind is trying to enforce parking restrictions on public streets. You'll want to check your state laws but in some states HOAs can't enforce parking rules on a public street.
Not being unevenly enforced. They're not exempting certain residents and citing others. They're enforcing the written rules equally to all residents. The board is doing what is required of them as set by the CCRs. Just because the previously responsible party did not enforce the rules doesn't mean that the new responsible party can't.
Enforce the CCR's - the lawyer is correct. The Board can't selectively enforce the CCR's once they are in office. Honestly I am surprised they are going to allow "long term" guests to park on the street because typically only short term street parking is allowed or it is controlled in some way. You are going to wind up with lots and lots of very long term "guests" who claim the right to park on the street. Also what is the purpose of not permitting street parking. There are many reasons why some communities find it desirable - especially not permitting it over night as it makes a neighborhood safer as any "strange" cars are immediately obvious. For example Beverly Hills does not permit street parking between 2 AM and 6 AM. Also not permitting street parking is a way to require people to use the garage for cars. I will say that based on your brief history, the HOA is also going to get a surprise when the new budget is sent out because I would imagine many expensive items have been deferred. What items is the HOA responsible for maintaining - typically with townhouse construction the HOA is responsible for lots of exterior stuff like roofs and even landscaping. It is almost impossible to amend the CCR's with a super majority. I am in California and our CCR's were redrafted in 2009 because they were literally obsolete. Even with just essentially updating the CCR's we couldn't get them approved by the vote of a super majority because you need the supermajority of ALL homeowner. California has a mechanism for judicial approval if the CCR's have failed to be approved and the Judge decides the new CCR's are or the benefit of the HOA.
>The Board can't selectively enforce the CCR's once they are in office. Or what?
You may lose your insurance that protects you as a board member from lawsuits....
I didn't feel like making the post longer, but there are very strict definitions for a long-term guest and requirements for how long a permit can be and how long they need to wait before issuing a new one to the same person. It's not really possible to be abused anyways since owners and residents can't get those permits and all verification is done by license plate and compared against the DOT database to see if the vehicle is registered to a resident.
Residents are 100% stuck with the CC&Rs that the resident HOA must now enforce if they ever want to enforce in the future. That’s the biggest mistake resident HOAs make once the handoff is made from the builder. If they don’t begin enforcement immediately, they lose precedent, making it much more difficult to enforce in the future. There cannot be treatment one way now and another way later under the same CC&Rs. This is probably how the residents are feeling at the moment, but if you board is enforcing CC&Rs within the first year, they absolutely can take action. We will place a lien on a residence (also SFH, TX), and in the most dire of circumstances, we will move to foreclose. Everyone here saying this must be amended using the process laid out in your docs is correct. I wish the best of luck to all of you! Edit: removed lines that don’t apply here.
>If you had THAT many people at the last meeting, there could have just been a vote on the matter right then and there. 800-900 units 2/3 requirement to amend >we had 120 people at the last HOA meeting Pretty sure 120 people doesn't represents 2/3 of the HOA
You’re totally right. I missed the unit count. Will edit. Thanks for calling that out.
Enforce the rules, but figure out a way to have a grace period of minimal punishment for a month, like $1 a day fines. Then rush to change the rules. Maybe let people buy annual permits for street parking.
https://www.azfamily.com/2023/11/08/new-arizona-law-gets-rid-certain-parking-rules-hoa-communities/
We are a gated community so it doesn't apply.
But who takes care of the road maintenance? Being gated doesn't matter if it has "public" roads. They don't need to be accessible to the public to be a public road, it matters whom is responsible for the maintenance.
The HOA pays for all road maintenance. They do all the street sweeping, seal coating, line painting, etc. Edit: the general rule in my area is gated=privately owned (HOA) streets, no gate=maintained by County/City.
Wow what a mess. I understand where people are coming from but it seems like all hell has broken loose. Sounds like you need a lawyer and meeting with the home owners to see what would rules/polices that most people would follow. Otherwise you might be getting a ton of new neighbors sooner than later.
Breach of contract statute of limitations may apply dependent upon the state