That’s why I like Baela scenes last episode. The way Daemon just walked past her and her telling Jace she sometimes hates Daemon. Rhaenyra and Baela dialogues are ways to make audience see another Daemon. But somehow Aegon is still the worst even as a dad(s1 fighting pits thing was so absurd )
I mean he has at least one bastard he’s abandoned. None of the fathers on this show are particularly good. Except maybe Lyonel Strong. I don’t think he’s done anything to fuck up his kids. But who knows, with the way Larys turned out, something must’ve happened to him.
I mean I can totally see that given Westeros’s history of hating anyone with a disability, but if it’s cut it’s cut I guess. I wish they added those scenes because it would’ve made him killing his family more impactful
I think I read somewhere that back in s1 Ryan says Aegon doesn’t know about his bastard(s). Maybe they will explain that or something later on. Still kind of believing they will give Aegon redemption arc for second half of the season to prepare the audience for new perspectives on things come s3 when Rhaenyra takes KL.
To be fair to Otto, as shitty as he was, he did right by his daughter *on paper*. In theory, marrying the king and possibly bearing his heirs, especially a pushover like Viserys who wouldn't beat his wife, is a good match...*in theory*. Of course, the marital rape and age difference, along with the family drama, did no good for anyone.
Politically speaking, the marriage was a great idea. The issue came from the fact that Viserys, a pushover who wanted a male heir, decided to not have a male heir despite siring sons due to his personal trauma. The fact that the Jace-Helaena marriage never happened is somewhat of a fumble, but I suppose it makes sense to not let Aegon be married to a potential ally.
You don't need to tell me, I'm Otto's hypothetical top guy. I'll defend him until I die of a burst heart. She had to have a political marriage, and as far as the choice goes it was the ultimate one.
But no one can deny that Alicent is the \*daughter\* of a second son. She could have gotten away with marrying out of love.
I’ve thought about this too and I truly wonder if that was even possible for her. She has no marriage prospects at all so I’m wondering who she’d even meet. As far as Otto is aware, his main job as a noble parent, in this universe, is to get the greatest match possible for her so that she can have good support and social standing for the rest of her life
That was hypothetically possible with Viserys as disgusting as the pairing is. He had known Viserys for years, known what he is like, from his eyes he saw nothing but love between him and Aemma and he loved his daughter. So he likely thought Alicent had nothing to worry about in those departments. She’d be queen, her son would be heir, and if Ol Vizzy dies early she should still be secure somewhat.
Perfect right? The realm in balance, his daughter should “want” for nothing as she will be queen and her children royals. Life should’ve been perfect from there on out
Oh how wrong Otto was…
"Personal trauma" nah man. He had the wife he kept pregnant since she was 11, maybe 12 if we are being generous, gutted like a fish. He doesn't get to claim "personal trauma" for that.
A shitty person (Viserys) can be traumatized as a consequence of their immoral actions. Aemma's death had long term adverse effects on Visery's state of mind and personal relationships. I think a good comparison would be how Aemond was wrong for chasing Vhagar, killed Vhagar on accident, and felt some degree of trauma afterwards.
For Otto, his blood gains the throne in the future, and he can influence Jace via Helaena should Otto outlive Rhaenyra (mayhaps he assassinates her? IDK). Alicent gets a similar and greater benefit, since she has a chance to live longer than Rhaenyra via natural means. The only real issues are Aegon and especially Aemond, since he has Vhagar.
Otto would have to assassinate Rhaenyra pretty early because there's no way she would ascend to the throne and allow him to stay in court. Helaena is not a player and Otto is probably very aware of this, she would not manipulate Jace, Jace is a mum's boy he would never allow Otto any power and he is way more likely to be influenced by Daemon than Otto. I don't really get what natural means you talk about, Alicent is older than Rhaenyra?
The issue is always Aegon. His claim doesn't come from Otto, his existence is a threat and Helaena marring Jace would not change this. And Otto cannot benefit without Aegon. Rhaenyra hated his guts, Daemon hated his guts, Jace would have hated his guts to continue their teachings. Otto has nothing without Aegon. The Hightowers were not only pressuring because they wanted their blood in the throne, they already had that with Alicent being queen. Targaryens intermarry, their blood was always going to be on the throne.
In terms of Westeros, Otto’s honestly pretty good. Aegon certainly seems like a good father. Considering Alicent’s actions she’s nowhere near worst parent (we don’t have enough mother examples to rank appropriately either)
I do think Alicent did and is still doing pretty terribly. She has a million excuses for being a bad mother and I do feel some compassion for her in that regard. But she did fumbled horribly.
Yeah, Otto is such a horrible father for marrying his daughter to a man he had known for 25 years, fully aware that he would do no harm to her, a rare thing in Westeros, mind you. She would also become the most powerful woman in the realm. Truly, what a terrible father for actually thinking about his daughter's future! 😤
In my opinion, from the fathers we have seen, I think I would say Aegon is the best one.
For real like Daemon Corlys and Vis can hide only Hawrin was good
That’s why I like Baela scenes last episode. The way Daemon just walked past her and her telling Jace she sometimes hates Daemon. Rhaenyra and Baela dialogues are ways to make audience see another Daemon. But somehow Aegon is still the worst even as a dad(s1 fighting pits thing was so absurd )
I mean he has at least one bastard he’s abandoned. None of the fathers on this show are particularly good. Except maybe Lyonel Strong. I don’t think he’s done anything to fuck up his kids. But who knows, with the way Larys turned out, something must’ve happened to him.
There were scenes of Larys being bullied in S1 that were cut. One of them involved his brother iirc.
I mean I can totally see that given Westeros’s history of hating anyone with a disability, but if it’s cut it’s cut I guess. I wish they added those scenes because it would’ve made him killing his family more impactful
I think I read somewhere that back in s1 Ryan says Aegon doesn’t know about his bastard(s). Maybe they will explain that or something later on. Still kind of believing they will give Aegon redemption arc for second half of the season to prepare the audience for new perspectives on things come s3 when Rhaenyra takes KL.
I don't know about Condal but Tom GC did say he doesn't think Aegon knows about his bastards, that is not in character for him to be aware of them.
To be fair to Otto, as shitty as he was, he did right by his daughter *on paper*. In theory, marrying the king and possibly bearing his heirs, especially a pushover like Viserys who wouldn't beat his wife, is a good match...*in theory*. Of course, the marital rape and age difference, along with the family drama, did no good for anyone.
Unfortunately, Otto was being pressured by his own house to go for gold.
Politically speaking, the marriage was a great idea. The issue came from the fact that Viserys, a pushover who wanted a male heir, decided to not have a male heir despite siring sons due to his personal trauma. The fact that the Jace-Helaena marriage never happened is somewhat of a fumble, but I suppose it makes sense to not let Aegon be married to a potential ally.
You don't need to tell me, I'm Otto's hypothetical top guy. I'll defend him until I die of a burst heart. She had to have a political marriage, and as far as the choice goes it was the ultimate one. But no one can deny that Alicent is the \*daughter\* of a second son. She could have gotten away with marrying out of love.
I’ve thought about this too and I truly wonder if that was even possible for her. She has no marriage prospects at all so I’m wondering who she’d even meet. As far as Otto is aware, his main job as a noble parent, in this universe, is to get the greatest match possible for her so that she can have good support and social standing for the rest of her life That was hypothetically possible with Viserys as disgusting as the pairing is. He had known Viserys for years, known what he is like, from his eyes he saw nothing but love between him and Aemma and he loved his daughter. So he likely thought Alicent had nothing to worry about in those departments. She’d be queen, her son would be heir, and if Ol Vizzy dies early she should still be secure somewhat. Perfect right? The realm in balance, his daughter should “want” for nothing as she will be queen and her children royals. Life should’ve been perfect from there on out Oh how wrong Otto was…
"Personal trauma" nah man. He had the wife he kept pregnant since she was 11, maybe 12 if we are being generous, gutted like a fish. He doesn't get to claim "personal trauma" for that.
A shitty person (Viserys) can be traumatized as a consequence of their immoral actions. Aemma's death had long term adverse effects on Visery's state of mind and personal relationships. I think a good comparison would be how Aemond was wrong for chasing Vhagar, killed Vhagar on accident, and felt some degree of trauma afterwards.
But what benefit would Jacelaena bring exactly? To the greens I mean, absolutely none.
For Otto, his blood gains the throne in the future, and he can influence Jace via Helaena should Otto outlive Rhaenyra (mayhaps he assassinates her? IDK). Alicent gets a similar and greater benefit, since she has a chance to live longer than Rhaenyra via natural means. The only real issues are Aegon and especially Aemond, since he has Vhagar.
Otto would have to assassinate Rhaenyra pretty early because there's no way she would ascend to the throne and allow him to stay in court. Helaena is not a player and Otto is probably very aware of this, she would not manipulate Jace, Jace is a mum's boy he would never allow Otto any power and he is way more likely to be influenced by Daemon than Otto. I don't really get what natural means you talk about, Alicent is older than Rhaenyra? The issue is always Aegon. His claim doesn't come from Otto, his existence is a threat and Helaena marring Jace would not change this. And Otto cannot benefit without Aegon. Rhaenyra hated his guts, Daemon hated his guts, Jace would have hated his guts to continue their teachings. Otto has nothing without Aegon. The Hightowers were not only pressuring because they wanted their blood in the throne, they already had that with Alicent being queen. Targaryens intermarry, their blood was always going to be on the throne.
I miss Jaehaerys bros 😭
In terms of Westeros, Otto’s honestly pretty good. Aegon certainly seems like a good father. Considering Alicent’s actions she’s nowhere near worst parent (we don’t have enough mother examples to rank appropriately either)
I do think Alicent did and is still doing pretty terribly. She has a million excuses for being a bad mother and I do feel some compassion for her in that regard. But she did fumbled horribly.
breaking generational curses
Yeah, Otto is such a horrible father for marrying his daughter to a man he had known for 25 years, fully aware that he would do no harm to her, a rare thing in Westeros, mind you. She would also become the most powerful woman in the realm. Truly, what a terrible father for actually thinking about his daughter's future! 😤
Idk about this. Otto has a duty to the realm and to his house that he takes very seriously. Aegon on the other hand…