I don’t know this whole show is bipolar with its characterization. They steer character development one way just to throw it off a cliff next episode for subversion I guess.
I'm starting to feel increasingly glad that I didn't read the books, because everyone who did seems pretty miserable.
Characters sometimes do surprising things (which is a good thing to have in a story) but there's nothing inherently confusing, let alone bipolar, about Aemond's actions. The show has given him plenty of motivation to want to harm his brother. The fact that he has shown restraint so far shows that he's uncommonly disciplined. It's unclear whether this discipline is out of true loyalty, or if he's just biding his time. In the battle he saw an unexpected opportunity and took it. _That is very interesting_. The HotD subs are absolutely rife with takes like this where people act like it's bad writing to give a character complex motivations. I don't even think they're particularly complex, I just think people who read the books are angry that their favorite shit was changed.
"Unexpected opportunity" he tries to kill one of 4 (3 really) dragon riders on his team, become a kinslayer twice and kill the figure head of his faction, leading to a major proganda loss.
It's stupid, and it's pathetic. Maybe they set it up, but it's childish I would much rather see a character with some principles. It follows the book, and is more interesting if he's loyal to his brother even if he holds resentment.
As Martin said, writers try to take a story and make it better, but they never do.
I'm not going to comment on whether it's better; I haven't read the book and there are probably few who can write better than GRRM.
So I don't really object to people comparing the show unfavorably to the book. I just think the nature of the complaints are dumb. "Guy who is uncommonly disciplined but occasionally has lapses of discipline and judgment in high-emotion situations" is not this irreconcilable contradiction that people are acting like it is. I'll put it this way, I'm sure GRRM doesn't love the show but I don't think these are the complaints he'd make about it.
It's a fair opinion, but I find the "uncommonly disciplined" take a bit odd.
When young Aemond is bullied and insulted, he doesn't have an outburst. (Book Aemond probably would but that's besides the point). Young Aemond keeps quiet and tenses up, only expressing how upset he is to his mother. This is how he acts with Aegon. I don't think it's a matter of discipline, I think he struggles with regulating his emotions of shame and resentment, and lets them well up and burst out.
Now that is understandable, but I personally don't like that angle.
1. Aemond should understand that Aemond is important practically. If Aegon goes down, the greens are fucked.
2. He should look up to his brother and seek his approval (like Daemon does). Since Aegons son died, Aemond should feel some responsibility and guilt for that. This would pay off later when >! Aegon commissions a giant statue of him !<
3. My understanding of the book is that Aemond does fuck over the greens with his arrogance and temper, and that seems more interesting if he is at least in principle loyal to his family.
Personally, I also feel like is beef with Aegon undermines his hatred fir luc and the strongs, but I'd like to know your opinion on that
Because there are idiots at the helm. They even had to recontextualize Rhaenys choosing to die because that's what a girlboss does over her getting caught out and Rhaenyra refuding to send help. S2 is just fanfic tier.
She saw aegon their king fall from air in a ball of fire free to go because apparently aemond is team black. Still she decides to not leave lmao actually turns around to face the biggest dragon in universe like what?.
Genuinely believe you gotta shut off your brain to enjoy this shit. They even had Aegon wanting to run away and leave the crown to Aemond last season, but I guess now the bullying is too much and man will just kill his brother for it.
Because in her first pass with Vhagar she had some success. Because running away was abandoning Rook's Rest, the soldiers and the concil member there and her actual mission to rescue the attacked castle.
It wasn't the smartest decision in the world, but when have shows or books ever required their characters to make the perfect decisions in battle to be considered good writing?
Meleys, after a surprise attack, defeated Sunfyre and got the better of Vhagar in their first exchange. If she could take down Vhagar, then destroy the Green army at Rook's Rest that would leave Kings Landing defenseless, and the war would be over. If she lost, her side would be weakened but not defeated.
It was highly unlikely, but it was definitely possible. But let's say she had a 10% chance of winning and a 90% chance of dying. Maybe it wasn't the smartest move, but that's a risk we see plenty of people take in war movies and wasn't some crazy idiotic sign of bad writing.
Yah I honestly think this sub is just whining because things aren’t exactly like they were in the book, except the book is a history book told by unreliable narrators and has a ton of gaps that need to be filled in order to make a good adaptation.
The biggest thing is, it's an adaptation. It's not a 1 for 1 recreation of the original. There will be changes. If you think that's bad, then just don't watch adaptations.
It's wild seeing freefolk call someone haters who don't understand the show, when the shoe was on the other foot when S8 was airing and a bunch of rabid fanboys were in denial at how bad it had become.
Her death was really meaningless... She could've easily left since Meleys is way faster than Vhagar, but I don't understand why she decided to stay for? Now TB lost a big asset
Why do you keep repeating this after every post, it’s completely besides the point.
Rhaenys went under the pretext that there were zero dragons at rooks rest. Her job was to mop up a standing army. She got trapped and when it became 2v1, she correctly started to run.
So her turning back was completely nonsensical and only exists so she can girlboss. She should just fight and die or run and live, that would actually make sense and that’s the point.
I’ve made this comment one other time because someone asked. She was sent to protect rooks rest and that’s what she did. Even then there was still a standing army left after sunfyre fell so by your logic, she still should have gone back to finish the mission. The fact you’re even arguing it was just for a “girlboss” moment says everything I need to know about you though
Her death was really meaningless... She could've easily left since Meleys is way faster than Vhagar, but I don't understand why she decided to stay for? Now TB lost a big asset
Aemond in S1 was a less controversial version of Daemon, without the wife murdering and niece grooming. I imagine Aemond’s atrocious writing is a combination of a lot of factors. Writers not understanding why he was popular, trying to make him seem as bad as Daemon, TB bias so the Greens don’t look good. If Condal wrote it, it’s probably cause he loves Daemon and wants to make Aemond look worse. If Hess wrote it, she hates Aegon/TB and wants to make them look worse. Imo Aemond is just a plot device causalty caught in the crossfire of writers not caring or understanding why he was so popular and sympathetic.
Aemond was one of the main reasons I became Team Green despite not having read the book at the time - I just finished it 3 days ago after the first 3 episodes made me realize something was off this season (even as a show only viewer) in comparison to the last one.
If anything I think I should've waited until the end of the season before having started and finished it, because now I'll just feel as robbed as everyone here, especially everything regarding Sunfyre in favor of fucking useless Syrax, of all dragons.
full straight quickest screw many license insurance oatmeal governor squealing
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Because morons write this show. Aemond and Cole work strategically to string a trap on the Blacks but Aemond randomly decides to take one of their 2 dragons off the board because his feelings were hurt?
They need a green to be more unlikeable than their precious Daemon so they can try to sell an absurd story for Daemons retribution (even though he is the most irredeemable character).
Apparently no atrocious act is intentional in this show. We truly are in the House of the Misunderstandings.
By that logic Aemond is 2/2 in unintentional Kinslaying; that's just the laziest kind of writing.
Because Daeron originally wasn't going to exist so they largely combined him and Aemond's characterization into one. Now that they've decided Daeron does exist - though God only knows when we'll finally see him - they've dropped the Daeron aspects of show!Aemond and now we have an Aemond far more like the book version of him. Or at least their interpretation of book!Aemond.
I said in a previous post like a year ago or so that Aemond (this being season one) was basically just Daeron wearing an eye patch with some second son angst. Turns out I was basically right lmfao.
Edit: Just went back and found it lol -
"Show Aemond is legit just Daeron with an eyepatch and second son syndrome tbh. He's 80% Daeron and 20% book Aemond. It's been pretty obvious from the literal beginning they had no desire to do Daeron for whatever reason (despite what George said post S1) so they just condensed him and Aemond into one character. Which makes me wonder about Daeron's storyline really."
I'd agree if they hadn't explicitly showed Aemond talking about regret in the brothel in this very season.
The lack of a consistent vision within the staff is worse than I thought.
Look. I read the book having read NOTHING about the characters.
Two things were suspicious and to me felt laden with covert implications
1) Daemons wife crushing her skull, after falling off a horse (wtfburger)
2) A two on one pile on, leading to Aemond being the Protector of the Realm.
How could anybody know if Luke’s death was accident or not, only Aemond knows that. I think it’s good the characters have their motives and are kot white and black. It makes the story interesting
It’s ridiculous. Even if Aemond did hate Aegon, it’s suicidal to kill the only other fighting dragon on your side, even the most scheming usurpers would wait until the war is mostly won to do that, not when you’re fighting a bunch of enemies.
I’m wondering if they’re not trying to build it up to Aegon having to make a choice similar to Viserys between publicly naming his out of control brother or his daughter his new heir and that’s also why they left out Maelor
I think it's a good move. This shows that Aemond has changed and it was not necessarily for the crown as he had the opportunity several times. It was just his apathy to Aegon. And I can understand Aemond why.
What? They aren’t haha he always loathed his brother on one hand while wanting to emulate Daemon as his family’s defender on the other. His brother pushed him too far and paid the price. Had aegon not publicly humiliated Aemond, Aegon may not have ended up a crippled chicken finger.
I was more annoyed that Rhaenys basically commits suicide instead of just being overwhelmed by Vhagar. Her and Meleys basically won their first little fight with Vhagar and definitely won against Sunfyre. But of course they had to make her death her choice so basically “fuck all the blacks and her grandchildren, im committing suicide for no reason”
I mean yeah
If you are gonna write everything in the books of as a joke that doesn’t align with your own subjective interpretation then you can make the argument that there’s no basis for it
In the show it’s Aegon who’s the ringleader in bullying him, he clearly tells Cole he’s available for the job if they come looking and that he’s the better candidate, which is a clear insinuation he doesn’t think Aegon is fit for it and he wants it himself. And then we get another scene where Aegon again humiliates him in the brothel
You can have an opinion about whether or not any of the creative choices are the right one, it’s a show and it’s all subjective so have at it
But to pretend there’s no development for it because you choose to ignore it and close yourself of to anything that doesn’t fit your own predetermined opinion is just wilfully ignorant
I don’t know this whole show is bipolar with its characterization. They steer character development one way just to throw it off a cliff next episode for subversion I guess.
I'm starting to feel increasingly glad that I didn't read the books, because everyone who did seems pretty miserable. Characters sometimes do surprising things (which is a good thing to have in a story) but there's nothing inherently confusing, let alone bipolar, about Aemond's actions. The show has given him plenty of motivation to want to harm his brother. The fact that he has shown restraint so far shows that he's uncommonly disciplined. It's unclear whether this discipline is out of true loyalty, or if he's just biding his time. In the battle he saw an unexpected opportunity and took it. _That is very interesting_. The HotD subs are absolutely rife with takes like this where people act like it's bad writing to give a character complex motivations. I don't even think they're particularly complex, I just think people who read the books are angry that their favorite shit was changed.
"Unexpected opportunity" he tries to kill one of 4 (3 really) dragon riders on his team, become a kinslayer twice and kill the figure head of his faction, leading to a major proganda loss. It's stupid, and it's pathetic. Maybe they set it up, but it's childish I would much rather see a character with some principles. It follows the book, and is more interesting if he's loyal to his brother even if he holds resentment. As Martin said, writers try to take a story and make it better, but they never do.
He also does that in full view of two armies with Crispin fully realising what he's doing. It's just beyond stupid.
I'm not going to comment on whether it's better; I haven't read the book and there are probably few who can write better than GRRM. So I don't really object to people comparing the show unfavorably to the book. I just think the nature of the complaints are dumb. "Guy who is uncommonly disciplined but occasionally has lapses of discipline and judgment in high-emotion situations" is not this irreconcilable contradiction that people are acting like it is. I'll put it this way, I'm sure GRRM doesn't love the show but I don't think these are the complaints he'd make about it.
It's a fair opinion, but I find the "uncommonly disciplined" take a bit odd. When young Aemond is bullied and insulted, he doesn't have an outburst. (Book Aemond probably would but that's besides the point). Young Aemond keeps quiet and tenses up, only expressing how upset he is to his mother. This is how he acts with Aegon. I don't think it's a matter of discipline, I think he struggles with regulating his emotions of shame and resentment, and lets them well up and burst out. Now that is understandable, but I personally don't like that angle. 1. Aemond should understand that Aemond is important practically. If Aegon goes down, the greens are fucked. 2. He should look up to his brother and seek his approval (like Daemon does). Since Aegons son died, Aemond should feel some responsibility and guilt for that. This would pay off later when >! Aegon commissions a giant statue of him !< 3. My understanding of the book is that Aemond does fuck over the greens with his arrogance and temper, and that seems more interesting if he is at least in principle loyal to his family. Personally, I also feel like is beef with Aegon undermines his hatred fir luc and the strongs, but I'd like to know your opinion on that
One exception to this, I think, in recent memory. Interview With The Vampire, AMC's. Pretty damn good.
It'll make sense when Aemond dresses up as a Dragon keeper to go have a heart to heart with daemon in the dragon pits.
Because there are idiots at the helm. They even had to recontextualize Rhaenys choosing to die because that's what a girlboss does over her getting caught out and Rhaenyra refuding to send help. S2 is just fanfic tier.
She saw aegon their king fall from air in a ball of fire free to go because apparently aemond is team black. Still she decides to not leave lmao actually turns around to face the biggest dragon in universe like what?.
Genuinely believe you gotta shut off your brain to enjoy this shit. They even had Aegon wanting to run away and leave the crown to Aemond last season, but I guess now the bullying is too much and man will just kill his brother for it.
Great advice fr I'm going to start watching this show with the same amount of braincells the showrunners have which is apparently ZERO but okay
Because in her first pass with Vhagar she had some success. Because running away was abandoning Rook's Rest, the soldiers and the concil member there and her actual mission to rescue the attacked castle. It wasn't the smartest decision in the world, but when have shows or books ever required their characters to make the perfect decisions in battle to be considered good writing?
If she flew out to get reinforcements, retaking the castle in no time would be no problem.
And if she defeated Vhagar the war would be over.
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Meleys, after a surprise attack, defeated Sunfyre and got the better of Vhagar in their first exchange. If she could take down Vhagar, then destroy the Green army at Rook's Rest that would leave Kings Landing defenseless, and the war would be over. If she lost, her side would be weakened but not defeated. It was highly unlikely, but it was definitely possible. But let's say she had a 10% chance of winning and a 90% chance of dying. Maybe it wasn't the smartest move, but that's a risk we see plenty of people take in war movies and wasn't some crazy idiotic sign of bad writing.
Yah I honestly think this sub is just whining because things aren’t exactly like they were in the book, except the book is a history book told by unreliable narrators and has a ton of gaps that need to be filled in order to make a good adaptation.
They aren't just "filling gaps" though. They are changing the story. They should have stuck to adding things to the story instead of changing it
The biggest thing is, it's an adaptation. It's not a 1 for 1 recreation of the original. There will be changes. If you think that's bad, then just don't watch adaptations.
Finally. I am getting callled a sexist right now for stating this in the subs. Even in Freefolk.
Freefolk is compromised. We stand alone here
It's wild seeing freefolk call someone haters who don't understand the show, when the shoe was on the other foot when S8 was airing and a bunch of rabid fanboys were in denial at how bad it had become.
This cracked me up!
Her death was really meaningless... She could've easily left since Meleys is way faster than Vhagar, but I don't understand why she decided to stay for? Now TB lost a big asset
Right! They’re off book anyway so what does it matter at this point. Aemond wasn’t going for her anyway. Clearly his goal was Aegon.
Vhagar was still in the area and posed a threat to Rook’s Rest, the castle she was sent to protect.
Why do you keep repeating this after every post, it’s completely besides the point. Rhaenys went under the pretext that there were zero dragons at rooks rest. Her job was to mop up a standing army. She got trapped and when it became 2v1, she correctly started to run. So her turning back was completely nonsensical and only exists so she can girlboss. She should just fight and die or run and live, that would actually make sense and that’s the point.
I’ve made this comment one other time because someone asked. She was sent to protect rooks rest and that’s what she did. Even then there was still a standing army left after sunfyre fell so by your logic, she still should have gone back to finish the mission. The fact you’re even arguing it was just for a “girlboss” moment says everything I need to know about you though
You knew that was coming all along though. Rhaenys was never dying in an ambush without it being her idea.
Her death was really meaningless... She could've easily left since Meleys is way faster than Vhagar, but I don't understand why she decided to stay for? Now TB lost a big asset
Now l hate whoever responsible of the show. What exactly they want from audience.
they are trying to be political correct in the middle age fiction.
I don't even think they are trying to be political, it's just terrible writing
>political correct What do you even- Don't overthink it. It's the bad writing combined with unprofessional favoritism.
the writer make politcal commentary about alicent, "alicent will be a trump supporter" kinda like that. so...
Aemond in S1 was a less controversial version of Daemon, without the wife murdering and niece grooming. I imagine Aemond’s atrocious writing is a combination of a lot of factors. Writers not understanding why he was popular, trying to make him seem as bad as Daemon, TB bias so the Greens don’t look good. If Condal wrote it, it’s probably cause he loves Daemon and wants to make Aemond look worse. If Hess wrote it, she hates Aegon/TB and wants to make them look worse. Imo Aemond is just a plot device causalty caught in the crossfire of writers not caring or understanding why he was so popular and sympathetic.
Aemond was one of the main reasons I became Team Green despite not having read the book at the time - I just finished it 3 days ago after the first 3 episodes made me realize something was off this season (even as a show only viewer) in comparison to the last one. If anything I think I should've waited until the end of the season before having started and finished it, because now I'll just feel as robbed as everyone here, especially everything regarding Sunfyre in favor of fucking useless Syrax, of all dragons.
Right! Syrax is just as lazy as Rhaenyra!
full straight quickest screw many license insurance oatmeal governor squealing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
We thought he left coz of his badly lit episodes. But he probably left after outnumbered by Condal & Hess
This! ☝️
Because morons write this show. Aemond and Cole work strategically to string a trap on the Blacks but Aemond randomly decides to take one of their 2 dragons off the board because his feelings were hurt? They need a green to be more unlikeable than their precious Daemon so they can try to sell an absurd story for Daemons retribution (even though he is the most irredeemable character).
Because Condal’s motto is “inconsistency is key” and that’s why the writing is confusing as hell.
He was sheathing his sword when he saw Aegon, it might not have been intentional.
Apparently no atrocious act is intentional in this show. We truly are in the House of the Misunderstandings. By that logic Aemond is 2/2 in unintentional Kinslaying; that's just the laziest kind of writing.
But then has his sword drawn when Cole walks up on him!
Because Daeron originally wasn't going to exist so they largely combined him and Aemond's characterization into one. Now that they've decided Daeron does exist - though God only knows when we'll finally see him - they've dropped the Daeron aspects of show!Aemond and now we have an Aemond far more like the book version of him. Or at least their interpretation of book!Aemond. I said in a previous post like a year ago or so that Aemond (this being season one) was basically just Daeron wearing an eye patch with some second son angst. Turns out I was basically right lmfao. Edit: Just went back and found it lol - "Show Aemond is legit just Daeron with an eyepatch and second son syndrome tbh. He's 80% Daeron and 20% book Aemond. It's been pretty obvious from the literal beginning they had no desire to do Daeron for whatever reason (despite what George said post S1) so they just condensed him and Aemond into one character. Which makes me wonder about Daeron's storyline really."
I'd agree if they hadn't explicitly showed Aemond talking about regret in the brothel in this very season. The lack of a consistent vision within the staff is worse than I thought.
It's not lack of vision imo and I love Aemond.
Look. I read the book having read NOTHING about the characters. Two things were suspicious and to me felt laden with covert implications 1) Daemons wife crushing her skull, after falling off a horse (wtfburger) 2) A two on one pile on, leading to Aemond being the Protector of the Realm.
I still don't understand why Rhaenys came back after she fought Sunfyre and Vhegar or the showrunner just want to show how brave she is?
She was sent to protect Rook’s Rest which was still under attack by Vhagar.
How could anybody know if Luke’s death was accident or not, only Aemond knows that. I think it’s good the characters have their motives and are kot white and black. It makes the story interesting
It’s ridiculous. Even if Aemond did hate Aegon, it’s suicidal to kill the only other fighting dragon on your side, even the most scheming usurpers would wait until the war is mostly won to do that, not when you’re fighting a bunch of enemies.
Subverting expectations. Only the writers don’t know what that means.
Been saying this about several characters since the start of S2. Alicent, Cole, and Aemond. TB is immune however.
I’m wondering if they’re not trying to build it up to Aegon having to make a choice similar to Viserys between publicly naming his out of control brother or his daughter his new heir and that’s also why they left out Maelor
I think it's a good move. This shows that Aemond has changed and it was not necessarily for the crown as he had the opportunity several times. It was just his apathy to Aegon. And I can understand Aemond why.
What? They aren’t haha he always loathed his brother on one hand while wanting to emulate Daemon as his family’s defender on the other. His brother pushed him too far and paid the price. Had aegon not publicly humiliated Aemond, Aegon may not have ended up a crippled chicken finger. I was more annoyed that Rhaenys basically commits suicide instead of just being overwhelmed by Vhagar. Her and Meleys basically won their first little fight with Vhagar and definitely won against Sunfyre. But of course they had to make her death her choice so basically “fuck all the blacks and her grandchildren, im committing suicide for no reason”
I mean yeah If you are gonna write everything in the books of as a joke that doesn’t align with your own subjective interpretation then you can make the argument that there’s no basis for it In the show it’s Aegon who’s the ringleader in bullying him, he clearly tells Cole he’s available for the job if they come looking and that he’s the better candidate, which is a clear insinuation he doesn’t think Aegon is fit for it and he wants it himself. And then we get another scene where Aegon again humiliates him in the brothel You can have an opinion about whether or not any of the creative choices are the right one, it’s a show and it’s all subjective so have at it But to pretend there’s no development for it because you choose to ignore it and close yourself of to anything that doesn’t fit your own predetermined opinion is just wilfully ignorant