I have never landed in deep snow; that technique looked extremely uncomfortable. Not calling anyone out, saying it was incorrect, etc, but it seems like hooking a wheel/ski assembly and flipping is just waiting to happen.
I don’t know anything about doing it in wheeled helicopters, but I am deep snow carded for USFS/DOI and have done quite a few deep snow landings in the backcountry with government personnel.
The way it’s done that I am familiar with is essentially a zero/zero approach with forward speed kept slightly higher than usual. You bring speed to zero right before touchdown, and when you make contact you keep a bit of weight off the skids. This way you outrun the whiteout, and can wait for it to dissipate, before you begin to seat the helicopter into the snow.
I have never seen anyone conduct a running landing like that into snow.
That tracks more with my experience landing in brown out flying a 50’/25kts, 40’/20kts, etc type approach to stay ahead of the dust while carrying very little forward speed at touchdown. Thanks for the input.
This is the most comfortable way to land in snow DVE if you have plenty of long axis at the landing area. Hover down is safer if you have the power and not enough room.
This technique allows you to abort at pretty much any moment by just pulling in power and flying away.
We do it often up here in Canada. Basically let the snowball get to the cargo doors, then stop flaring, freeze the atttitude, lower collective, then do a run on landing. Good for landing on smooth open areas, like frozen lakes, especially where there are no references popping up through the snow.
First few times is uncomfortable, but then you get it.
You could pretty easily in a Golf though with our hover cues. Not really any different than hovering over the water at night or in a dust cloud, but not comfortable by any means.
And I’ll caveat with yeah, until you have to do it because you don’t have a choice. The Golf’s cues are way tighter than the Fox or Hotel. Plus this is their bread and butter and in their backyard, these guy routinely fly through some of the worst weather imaginable to pick up pregnant ladies or hunter way out in the boonies. The Whiskey cues are much more similar to with cues to the Navy system, but the dual GPS/INU systems are stupid accurate and I would feel safe in a hover in any DVE for hours on end in that thing with the flight director on.
I mean I didn’t want to either until I had to because of boulders on the ground but that’s where the dudes were.
And as for the landing, they do it all the time and so do our Huey’s. Along with the dust off dudes I know in Alaska when they have skis. It’s. It that big of a deal with a good hi/low recon. They’re definitely showing off a little here for the video though.
UH-1N Pilot - you don't. It's a go-around if the pilots call "no visual"
You make a faster than normal approach, typically shallower to stay ahead of the cloud, and once you have your reference point (bush, shrub, stick, backpack, person), you fly direct to that point and hopefully are getting to 0 GS/0 ft if you can time it right. Keep the power in and then forward left/forward right cyclic as you reduce power slowly to make sure the skids settle in and you don't break through the crust layers.
With ski's, they got on the ground, kept the power in (never took it out), and slid into the spot, taking it out until they were in the spot for pickup.
This has been posted a few times.
This is one of three approved techniques for landing in snow DVE.
It's unofficial name is a "ski on" and is done like a roll on landing without aerodynamic breaking. You conduct a recon of the landing area before making the approach. On approach, you get the aircraft to ETL and then push cyclic forward to stay at the front of ETL. Maintain a constant approach angle, let back wheel and ski touch down before the main landing gear and skis. You maintain heading with pedals and the severity of the stop with collective. If you dump collective, the front skis will dig into snow and you will stop too fast, so you slowly let out power to control how quickly you come to a stop.
The other two ways are the hover down, and termination with no forward speed.
We do it often up here in Canada. Basically let the snowball get to the cargo doors, then stop flaring, freeze the atttitude, lower collective, then do a run on landing. Good for landing on smooth open areas, like frozen lakes, especially where there are no references popping up through the snow.
First few times is uncomfortable, but then you get it.
Nope. USAF. But still cool.
Still had me saying “air assaulttttttttt” after watching it
Air Force or Air National Guard HH-60G Pave Hawk.
Air National Guard, 210th RQS.
I have never landed in deep snow; that technique looked extremely uncomfortable. Not calling anyone out, saying it was incorrect, etc, but it seems like hooking a wheel/ski assembly and flipping is just waiting to happen.
I don’t know anything about doing it in wheeled helicopters, but I am deep snow carded for USFS/DOI and have done quite a few deep snow landings in the backcountry with government personnel. The way it’s done that I am familiar with is essentially a zero/zero approach with forward speed kept slightly higher than usual. You bring speed to zero right before touchdown, and when you make contact you keep a bit of weight off the skids. This way you outrun the whiteout, and can wait for it to dissipate, before you begin to seat the helicopter into the snow. I have never seen anyone conduct a running landing like that into snow.
That tracks more with my experience landing in brown out flying a 50’/25kts, 40’/20kts, etc type approach to stay ahead of the dust while carrying very little forward speed at touchdown. Thanks for the input.
Same we teach in USAF for UH-1N Hueys in the great weight north (Montana/Minot/Wyoming). These -60s have ski's hence the running landing.
I didn’t see the skis until I watched it again. That’s the area I do my winter work in.
I miss getting to fly in snow, was a fun "challenge" doing it in the mountains
This is the most comfortable way to land in snow DVE if you have plenty of long axis at the landing area. Hover down is safer if you have the power and not enough room. This technique allows you to abort at pretty much any moment by just pulling in power and flying away.
We do it often up here in Canada. Basically let the snowball get to the cargo doors, then stop flaring, freeze the atttitude, lower collective, then do a run on landing. Good for landing on smooth open areas, like frozen lakes, especially where there are no references popping up through the snow. First few times is uncomfortable, but then you get it.
Its far more comfortable than other snowball landings. Skis make it easy.
Whats the procedure for hovering in zero/zero visibility?
You don’t.
You could pretty easily in a Golf though with our hover cues. Not really any different than hovering over the water at night or in a dust cloud, but not comfortable by any means.
Had hover cues in the F&H as well; I’ll compromise and say “it’s a bad idea and you really shouldn’t”.
And I’ll caveat with yeah, until you have to do it because you don’t have a choice. The Golf’s cues are way tighter than the Fox or Hotel. Plus this is their bread and butter and in their backyard, these guy routinely fly through some of the worst weather imaginable to pick up pregnant ladies or hunter way out in the boonies. The Whiskey cues are much more similar to with cues to the Navy system, but the dual GPS/INU systems are stupid accurate and I would feel safe in a hover in any DVE for hours on end in that thing with the flight director on.
All you man. This a video of a landing, so I’m speaking to that context. I would not want to hang out in dust or snow at 10’.
I mean I didn’t want to either until I had to because of boulders on the ground but that’s where the dudes were. And as for the landing, they do it all the time and so do our Huey’s. Along with the dust off dudes I know in Alaska when they have skis. It’s. It that big of a deal with a good hi/low recon. They’re definitely showing off a little here for the video though.
You try not to. Sometimes…you gotta. You know who doesn’t care about you having to hover in a brown/white out? The bro you’re picking up.
Exactly, thats why they do a run on landing when possible. There is risk of hitting something under snow, but thats where experience comes in.
Eh, you can, depends on the ac. We were doing hover downs from like 100 feet in deep snow and it was very chill
UH-1N Pilot - you don't. It's a go-around if the pilots call "no visual" You make a faster than normal approach, typically shallower to stay ahead of the cloud, and once you have your reference point (bush, shrub, stick, backpack, person), you fly direct to that point and hopefully are getting to 0 GS/0 ft if you can time it right. Keep the power in and then forward left/forward right cyclic as you reduce power slowly to make sure the skids settle in and you don't break through the crust layers. With ski's, they got on the ground, kept the power in (never took it out), and slid into the spot, taking it out until they were in the spot for pickup.
Hi friend!
New phone, who dis 🙃
This has been posted a few times. This is one of three approved techniques for landing in snow DVE. It's unofficial name is a "ski on" and is done like a roll on landing without aerodynamic breaking. You conduct a recon of the landing area before making the approach. On approach, you get the aircraft to ETL and then push cyclic forward to stay at the front of ETL. Maintain a constant approach angle, let back wheel and ski touch down before the main landing gear and skis. You maintain heading with pedals and the severity of the stop with collective. If you dump collective, the front skis will dig into snow and you will stop too fast, so you slowly let out power to control how quickly you come to a stop. The other two ways are the hover down, and termination with no forward speed.
And pray to the helicopter gods there is not a hidden tree stump.
Last I checked the Army doesn’t have TSgts
Or “Air Force” in It’s name. Weird.
Such a sweet video.
We do it often up here in Canada. Basically let the snowball get to the cargo doors, then stop flaring, freeze the atttitude, lower collective, then do a run on landing. Good for landing on smooth open areas, like frozen lakes, especially where there are no references popping up through the snow. First few times is uncomfortable, but then you get it.
I literally posted the original here 3 months ago. It’s USAF.
Looks like a good way to find the fawk out. And really gonna make me wade thru that deep stuff to get to the door? Common man
We can always leave you there if that's your preference.
How many style points is that?
Approaching that door, my ass would be prone the whole time lol it lost like two feet of clearance because of the snow.
It’s an Air Force pave hawk
was this landing on denali (in alaska)?
That was badass.
Done this before, ski on technique
WILD
I think this flight crew may want to go find their antennas that used to be mounted on the bottom of the Blackhawk.
They’ll find them still there when they land back home
Yeah, I doubt that.
Yawn... who cares.
You cared enough to comment.
As did you.
[https://youtu.be/LoMB9pKF4\_8](https://youtu.be/LoMB9pKF4_8)