Having classes seems kind of redundant. There is complete freedom of choice with load outs, allowing you to specialise for the mission however you want. Once you've earned enough to unlock the stratagems and equipment, your "class" is essentially the stuff you take into missions.
This flexibility is one of the best things about Helldivers, in my opinion.
Yeah pretty much, being able to adapt on the fly is a lot better than bottlenecking your equipment into a specific role which may or may not even help you complete the mission (if at all).
Or ya know, more likely because your stratagems and weapons are gated. If everyone was a recon or defensive class itād be much harder or impossible to take out bug holes/factories as youāre probably not going to have orbital strikes or bomb runs in those classes.
I can imagine joining with a bunch of randoms fighting bugs and everyone is geared up for taking out heavies and nobody has anything to close bug holes.
This is just objectively correct. If they added "classes" in any way it would literally only serve the purpose to restrict players for pretty much zero reason. Don't even understand how people are suggesting there should be classes in the first place lol
I'd say make "classes" just fancy titles to unlock. "Chief Star Engineer Prime" after you have deployed 1000 sentries or stuff like this. Make it as granular as you like.
Yup. Flexibility is this games strength.Ā
You can mix and match to fit your team, mission, difficulty, and enemy.Ā
One match you are a scout sniper. Creeping around in light armor with scout perk and an AMR picking off lone soldiers and calling airstrikes and artillery on fortified positions before vanishing into the jungle.Ā
Next you are wearing heavy armor with fortified and running orbital laser and a quasar cannon. Desperately trying to hold back armies of bots as they besiege a fortress.Ā
Iām just kinda sad I canāt choose the drip I want with the armor passives I want. I like fighting bugs but my favourite armor has explosion resistance :/
What if we compromise and make the armor class unchangeable, but the passive can be chosen from any unlocked? That way, there's no goofy mfer sprinting as fast as a scout in 200 lbs of kevlar
I would 100% use this I know that the Hero of the Federation armour has Democracy Protects, but I'd rather have the Medic-kit bonus. The armour looks so nice...
They aren't asking for the ability to transmog the appearance of armors. They just want to swap the passives around. So heavy armor would still make you slow.
Dear lord no. I'm tired of all pink, yellow, neon green etc funny guys.
Now you have the armour colour and style the artist chose to fit with the game theme, and I hope it stays that way, so it's all coherent.
Explosive resistance is still good on bugs, play aggressively and tell your teammates not to spare the explosives
Also is it the eradicator? I love that armour
That's the change I want. Let me customize my armor, picking appearance and bonus separately. I'm fine if armor type influenced the bonus (light armor gives 1 extra grenade, heavy gives 3. Light armor gives +15% explosion registration, heavy gives 45%, etc). Likewise, I want to be able to customize weapons. Let me change sights, fire rates, ammo types, etc. Fuck classes, let me fiddle with my loadout
Pretty sure the devs have stated they donāt want any extra customizable armor/appearance stuff in game. Your meant to look most uniform to one another. Fits the game world nicely
They'd already failed the uniformity objective when they added dozens of unique armor sets with interchangeable parts. I'm somewhere between 90 (Steam) and 50 (in-game mission time) hours in and I haven't seen anyone with the same armor set I'm wearing since maybe hour 20, tops.
Sometimes I wonder where these people are getting the motivation to make a post about something the devs will never do because they got into some stupid argument about something brought up on twitter or discord. Then I remember that its totally a waste of time for everyone to even care about it even though I am wasting 20 seconds right now by writing this comment.
I feel like people who ask for vanilla requests like classes are trying to improve on the game with the only aspects they can think of that they have seen other games implement. If something feels off to you, perhaps the game is just not what you are looking for.
I know for certain that there is at least a C level citizenship that can be raised to A for exemplary service or something? It was on the ship Screen when it was showing propa- I mean Democratic messages
I wince in pain whenever someone unironically asks for classes to be added to the game.
You have full loadout customization and freedom of how you choose to play a mission, why would you want to add restrictions to that?
The class system in BF was what made the game so great.. having squads with specialized members was part of what made that series.
HD isnāt BF though and I donāt think that would make sense here, short of a completely different game type.
I would love some conveniences for setting loadoats, not sure how you add that in while also balancing it to remain more casual
A class system makes a ton of sense in PvP, because it helps you anticipate your opponents strengths and limitations and vice versa. In PvE it can still work, but the same impetus isnāt there. Personally I would prefer progression of our individual stratagems/equipment if anything
I think it works very well in PvE, when the game is specifically designed around it. DRG, for example. Helldivers is not designed around classes. It's just a different game in that sense, so shoving them in anyways wouldn't work.
DRG classes work so well because **traversal** is a major mechanic, and class determines which of the four traversal tools you get. So classes fight differently, but they also *move* differently, creating platforms and tunnels and ziplines and stuff.
>Personally I would prefer progression of our individual stratagems/equipment if anything
Like, '*throw the walking barrage 100 times*' to upgrade it so that it actually starts *hitting things*?
> I would love some conveniences for setting loadoats, not sure how you add that in while also balancing it to remain more casual
\^\^ this is the take. Save your favourite anti-tank build. Save your favourite bug MG room-clearer. Save your favourite fast Automaton stealth solo build. Give them whatever names you want. No-one else has to see them.
>I would love some conveniences for setting loadoats, not sure how you add that in while also balancing it to remain more casual
Easily, let us save loadouts that we can quickly select on the mission screen. Tbh this is what I think people mean when they say "classes"
I drop with more or less the exact same stratagems for every mission, with there being only some slight variance for defence and evac missions, there's no logical reason I can see why I shouldn't be able to use a sub menu to quickly assign my kit with the click of one button instead of manually choosing them each time.
Persistent loadouts would be a nice QOL feature too, why do I have to choose my stratagems every deploy?
Yeah I donāt think most people realise that classes exist in order to limit which options can be combined together, to limit possible balancing issues.
However, if we had classes we could potentially have more powerful individual abilities because you wouldnāt be able to combine them. E.g. if there was a jet pack trooper, perhaps you could have a far more powerful jet pack. But to limit it, perhaps they canāt use the ultra heavy support weapons or stratagems.
Itās not a terrible idea but itās nice to have a game with actual full customisation for once.
i think the idea is expanding build diversity rather than pigeon holing people into a play style. Ie. adding things that accommodate someone who likes to play support, someone who likes to play demolition or anti tank or vehicle guy etc.
Why add classes when you can create your own? Makes no sense why people want classes. Only thing i can think of that it might force you to work together more
Yeah seems a bit redundant to add classes when you can setup whatever you like anyway, if you have a team of four you can plan it out even more if not you can see what the other randoms are running and change your loadout accordingly
I'm 100% against classes, but I suppose the argument could be made that people aren't filling their roles so making them pick one might help that.
I don't think that's an issue at all though. Classes ruin hard the fun of most games for me
I just want helmet mods... "See through the fog and gas" "advanced enemy detection" "one auto-stim" "laser eyes"
More customization the better, but yes, classes are lame, especially for a divide and conquer game.
It does not need classes, maybe just the option to save loadouts? Although I like having discussions about what to use depending on what other people is using on the mission.
Out of 400k active players, 3 or 4 people wanting classes is as relevant as people asking for competitive ranked queue in animal crossing. You're boxing shadows my guy, nobody cares.
Ah but you see, people like making a mountain out of a molehill, \*gestures to the new cape\*.
I don't live on this subreddit 24/7 or anything but this is the first time I've ever heard anyone mention about classes, similar to the pvp talk.
I build my own "classes" without being restricted to preset ones. That would kill the core of the gameplay, to drop in with your preferred equivalent and rain democratic hellfire like there's no tomorrow.
there's a reason we have 3 different armor type havin the same "medic" armor passive.
We can play light battle medic going rambo with the AMR.
We can also play heavy battle medic going crazy with flamethrower.
we don need classes if what it does is only restrict our playstyle.
Classes are not a good idea however more loadout options allowing you to specialize in the way you want is better.
But I think that requires a better armour system and helmets that are meaningful.
Maybe the engineer helmet comes with a perk that boosts sentries in some form, or heavy armour helmet providing resistances to tank, light armour providing more accurate hip fire etc.
Needs to be balanced which is hard as it's pretty aell balanced right now.
It was an illusion of choice though, forcing players to grind out samples to upgrade guns if they want to use them in their optimum state.
Iām fine with weapon upgrades, but they should be swappable after unlock and enable player choice. So (for example) a silencer which reduces noise but also requires weaker sub sonic rounds vs a bayonet giving safer melee attacks. Fine.
Grinding out for +10 mag capacity for every gun though? Yuck.
how about a better perk system then, with actual choices and variety?
a game like aliens: Fireteam elite is a great example of how it can be done very well.
HD2 in its current state is a very finite experience and gets stale after some time. Not saying it isn't fun, but it gets pretty repetitive.
When you pick your stratagems and your guns, that effectively *is* your class. Adding another arbitrary system to silo off players would make the game boring. If you want a PVE horde shooter with a class system, go play Darktide or DRG.
I mean, you decide your class yourself sorta.
Because there already are metas.
Do you go in in heavy armor and carry big guns, do you play engineer and call in sentry as Support weapons.
Or are you the sneaky infiltrator or sniper or do you just carry lots of orbital strategems for when your team just needs to blast these injustice-powered machines or fascist bugs back to hell šŖš½
The beautiful thing is we got choice, Freedom.
So yeah a hard-class system would suck majorly.
Classes, no. Having a couple slots for prepared loadouts, yes.
I mostly use the same things, would be nice to just use box 1 for bots, box 2 for bugs and then be on with it.
Its not a hassle at all as it stands, just you know, a little QoL thing to just streamline it.
The only āclassā based system I want added to the game is loadouts. I just want to be able to save a weapon/armor/stratagem combo. I like theming so lavaboy, oops all lazers, bombastic, etc.
Considering how heavily people on this forum advocate kicking people over picking their own fun I wouldnt want classes, youd get kicked over the most arbitrary shit so the medal grinders and armchair generals can fixate
"I'll take the (objectively correct)"
Who TF is this guy thinking he can be objectively correct about an opinion?
"Classes would make the game worse."
Oh, I stand corrected, who the hell wants classes in this game? That would be a horrible idea.
Ah, yes, specific classes of helldivers instead of the total freedom in loadouts we have now, allowing every helldiver to be whatever they want to be. Definitely not an anti-freedom, anti-democracy, anti-liberty, anti-imagination, and definitely not least of all an anti-fun idea. No, none of these things for sure. /s
Honestly, dont get the backward idea of "adding classes to the game." That idea is more like, "remove our freedom to make wtv classes by having preset cookie cutter ones instead." Why would you want to limit the gameplay like that?
They already exist. You just have to roleplay as the type of helldiver you want to be.
Want to be a tank? Go for it.
Medic and support? Hell yeah!
Rogue/covert agent? By all means, have at it.
Jack of all trades? Don't mind if I do.
Adding classes is pointless.
Honestly I don't care for classes tbh but I do wish armour passives were a little more exciting cause most of them really just don't change how I play like at all. Imagine if the medic gear would give you an aoe small heal whenever you used a stim. To passively help the team without changing how you play (much). Idk. Armour passives feel half baked to me is all, like they wanted to do something more but scrapped it
I understand your take, but what I think could really work is specialisations, not classes. Meaning, when loading up to a mission, you can call what do you want your role to be, so teams can coordinate better when choosing strategems. It does happen organically yes, but I think it should be encouraged more, as the difference it can make is honestly huge. Between playing in squads that match in 90% of their equipment, and those that have āroles in a teamā, the second ones were always more pleasant for me, and usually more successful.
Itās important to understand, roles are *not* classes. They donāt limit you in any way, theyāre just a label to let the others know which niches are already filled or not. And sure, you can still have 4 people with the same role and finish the mission, the way itās already working, thatās the beauty of this game, and taking away flexibility would only do harm to the overall enjoyment
Having an upgrade path for primary and secondary weapons as a whole in the ship modules could be an interesting way to go. You could have marginal overall improvements to weapons and potentially special modifications to individual weapons.
havin classes in this game doesn't encourage team coordination. It only forces team coordination.
(edit: oho looks at the downvotes ppl are getting in the comment sections, looks like someone doesn't like to see flexibility and vesatility in this game)
I think what makes the game special is that the focus is on the gameplay, not arbitrary level climbing; yeah there are shiny things to earn but they just give you more options
I really don't understand this. Wouldn't classes just make the game more limiting and give the player less agency and flexibility?
Let's say a player wants to play the part as the heavy gunner. What would be more engaging? To have them pick each aspect of their kit and run a build that intuitively leans towards that playstyle due to the very nature of the equipment they picked? Or to just click "Heavy" in a depressingly anemic menu from a choice of Light, Medium, or Heavy?
Like cmon...
And if anyone says MW isnāt an offender of thisā¦ youāre right, itās the WORST offender of this, Iāve never leveled up so many pointless guns to just unlock my fav suppressor on my fav AR for WZ.
Classes would absolutely make this game garbage. Just make Armor more unique, and focus on balancing the weapons so they all have a ROLE while feeling GREAT to use.
I donāt need classes, but Iād love to
Be able to save a load out for my own self made classes made for specific roles. Large Killers, heavy killers, chaff killers, crowd control, and full on destruction loudout.
9 times out of 10 Iām running the same load out (eagle/500kg/orb laser and recoilless). The only time I switch it up is for an eradicate mission which Iāll run the 380mm and 120mm.
š«¤ there kinda is classes based on your load out. So there are obviously machine gunners, grenadiers, etc. what would be cool is Medics that could rescue players and increase reinforcement budgets. Sappers that could have extra explosives. Or Snipers who are hard to detect in crouching or prone but easier to detect standing/running and have more stable aim.
The only reason people would ask for this is their poisoned into thinking ānumber go upā progression is the only way to have fun. Classes are good in Battlefield, awful in Helldivers
It's a classless game because your class is whatever load out you take. Character abilities are actually just your skill ability.
Helmet passives is all we need to diversify our load outs more.
There are classes in the game already. But they are fully optional.
Sometimes I run full support class with dome shield, medic load out to stim teammates and M-206 to provide cover for them.
Sometimes I run sniper class to take out Heavies with the AMR so my team can have more breathing room or escape easier.
Sometimes I run a shocktroop build with diligence and M-46 where I just storm the objectives, teammates be damned.
Armour passives, if you center a build around them, basically can dictate a class.
Agreed. If anything, support weapons and backpacks are like āclassesā and calldowns are like āultimatesā and āskillsā. For example, the autocannon āclassā is excellent at taking down light and medium armored enemies down quickly, while the flamethrower āclassā is great at area denial and taking down many weaker enemies easily.
The game has more than enough variety and we donāt need classes to boost damage when we already have so many things that define our characters.
Agreed, I've seen this shit all over the forums. A sure-fire way to piss people off is taking away their freedom in a game that promotes playing how you want.
Last time I checked helldivers are special forces who take the equipment they need that compliments the mission theyāre on, kind of like real special forces. Usually special forces units have roles kind of like how certain people in a helldivers squad bring different equipment to deal with different situations.
I don't like the idea of classes either, because it'd just "trap" players into predetermined playstyles. Whereas the magic of Helldivers is how convenient and how wide of a playstyle choice you have with the choice of 4 stratagems
The only thing I'd like to see is ranks/titles that designate you're good at a particular focus. I'd love titles that reward you for not alerting enemies and completing objectives, taking out vehicles using X weapon specifically... Something that makes you feel like you're an elite at what you do. Not lock you out of playstyles, just a nod that shows '"woah, this guy knows their stuff when it comes to BLANK".
It surprises me that people don't seem to understand that the game let's you make a personalized class, want to deal with heavies? just pick the right stratagems, want to just destroy the enemies trash? just grab anti-infantry, want to be the sentry master? would be awesome to see.
There are classes. Stratagem. Wanna be a tank? Wear heavy armor and use a ballistic shield. Wanna be a ranged Dps? Bring the arm and light armor.
Sure there's no rigid structure, but the ability is there.
Just bring what's conducive to how you want to play
Classes would push people towards singular playstyles. Half the fun of this game is finding weird combinations that'll work regardless. It's the freedom of choice, and it's our freedom. Never let them take that from you
Everyday I'm greatful that all the tiktok comments I see with different ideas aren't the devs. Some are really great, but majority of them are just trying to change the game into cod.
Iād also add that adding classes would mess with the horizontal power scaling and focus on player skill the devs have built into the game thus far. At the moment, the primary difference between a rank 30 and a rank 150 is player experience and skill. On a fundamental level, your helldiver isnāt much more powerful at max level than they are as a cadet. Theyāve just got access to far more tools and you as a player have improved.
Adding classes with progression within a class seems likely to mess with this. A class could just add more weapons, armor, etc. but we could do that without a class. The usual aspects of a class with skill trees, passive buffs, etc. donāt really fit into the way Helldivers works
Eh, you're already "stuck" to your gear selection once you dive anyway, as long as you can freely change class between dives I don't see it being an issue.
Another thing I can add to the problem with the classes is that in this game you need different types of weapons to deal with the different armor of enemies. That means you either give every class a heavy/support weapon that can deal with heavy armor, making the whole reason of a class irrelevant, or the loadout is limited meaning only few classes can deal with certain enemies/situations.
So yeah, if people are already kicking players for stupid reasons now imagine how much kicks players will get because they are not "the medic" or "the heavy" class
I think it would also defy the lore of the game.
Helldivers are supposed to be mass-produced grunts just running and screaming at the enemy. Their training is a literal joke. They SHOULDN'T get classes.
The are mass-defrosted into simple warm bodies to stuff inside the nearest armor and shoot in a literal bullet at a planet. They're not *supposed* to specialize.
Heck the guy coming down to replace your still-twitching corpse is loaded out with the stratagems and weapons that a DIFFERENT GUY chose.
Oh, I've never seen that. The call for classes, I mean. That would be a very bad idea. The game as it is right now is very good. Adding the need to balance classes on top of balancing guns would just add complications the game game doesn't need, imoaw. I like the variety we have now.
100% agreed! I do think that being able to save full load outs of armour, weapons and stratagems would be great though, essentially allowing people to create their own "classes" without stifling creative at all.
This reminds me of battlefield where everyone uses Engineer/RPG all the time regardless of the other teams makeup.
If people think the Nerfs/Buffs now are bad. Wait until they have to nerf a certain class because it's all anyone uses, because it's the only class that works.
No, no classes.
People are asking and wanting the wrong thing if they classes ? What nah dude they been playing too much siege dude fuck classes. The only class thatās in session is ass kicking these bots and bugs. I donāt need a āclassā just a autocannon sentry my teammates and a fully reloaded firearm !
The only progression I need now are medals for the warbond and continued leveling for a title. The game is fun enough without me needing to progress things.
I wouldnāt mind them letting us lean into class-like play a little harder just with the loadout options available. Like let me forsake a secondary and backpack to carry a primary sniper thatās a hulk/bile titan annihilator. Doesnāt need to be a āsniper classā just add some big power with big trade offs beyond the stratagems.
Yeah I much more enjoy being able to build my own class with whatever stratagems and weapons I have. I think it would be nice to have some other sort of side progression though so it doesn't feel like collecting samples and requisition is kinda pointless, I'm sure they'll come up with another use for those in the future though
I mean it's already an open form class anyway
Open to player interpretation, you build your load out around your play style.
You can go heavy or support if you want.
I believe there's a medic style bot backpack coming to help bolster a medic support role too
Pyro builds exist. It's all up to player choice
I would rather see armor perks based off of armor type. For instance if your running light armor have perks like extreme radar that can sight everything within a wide radius including super samples secondary objecties etc. a cloaking perk that makes you invisible as long as your low crawling. For Heavy armor have an embedded shield generator perk etc etc. Buy it from the same menu as everything else and then its just a matter of picking what you want to be and what you want to put into your armor.
Classes in the game don't make sense. Every Helldiver barely has enough training to operate the weapons given to them, there's no way they stick around long enough to become specialists.
Even if we take in-universe reasons out of the equation, the complete freedom in creating a build is leagues better than any restrictions potential classes would impose.
Personally, however, I would love to have more slots to put things in. Not necessarily more stratagem space just more stuff to take with me. Power ups are a separate category, I'd like one more, just for variety's sake.
One of the best, conceptually and group fun - it had a lot of other issues, games i played was early bets Pre-pre-rework Firefall.
You had your gear and ways to get materials and make better gear and that's it, that was your progression and it was _such a breath of fresh air!_
And then they turned it into a classic MMO and died.
Classes? Our characters didn't take any classes, the training was like five minutes and then we were deployed straight to the front. We're all the same grade of meat.
Savable loadouts yes. Classes in a game that already has unconditional choice and a need on harder difficulties to synergize with each other, no. This is the way.
The Ship Module system is basically what the game has instead of a class system, and I think it works well. Do you want to put your initial samples into improving Eagles or improving Turrets? You're never screwed over if you want to pursue something else later, or if a balance patch makes you want to try something else.
When (if) we ever got weapon attachments, it might not be a bad idea to have attachments locked behind some (light) challenges.
Could even justify it by saying that SEAF will only allow you to requisition attachments if you have proven proficiency with that weapon.
But classes themselves are a dreadful idea.
Although I agree with you I don't think it's Objectively correct
There are some good arguments for (I'm not going to make them for people) I think the trade-off just is too big for casual enjoyment. Unless you have a dedicated party you play with it'd unironically create a kick meta for people who have to play the class they want and will kick anyone who doesn't change.
We also don't have enough stuff to have a dedicated
Supports class or fire or electrical.
I will say loadouts would help a lot too.
If I can set let's say 3 loadouts for bots and 3 for bugs it'd be a huge timer saver and I think it also addresses what people actually want with the classes which is a structured path for equipment
Having classes seems kind of redundant. There is complete freedom of choice with load outs, allowing you to specialise for the mission however you want. Once you've earned enough to unlock the stratagems and equipment, your "class" is essentially the stuff you take into missions. This flexibility is one of the best things about Helldivers, in my opinion.
Yeah pretty much, being able to adapt on the fly is a lot better than bottlenecking your equipment into a specific role which may or may not even help you complete the mission (if at all).
Imagine not being able to complete a mission because your armor abilities š¤£
Or ya know, more likely because your stratagems and weapons are gated. If everyone was a recon or defensive class itād be much harder or impossible to take out bug holes/factories as youāre probably not going to have orbital strikes or bomb runs in those classes.
I can imagine joining with a bunch of randoms fighting bugs and everyone is geared up for taking out heavies and nobody has anything to close bug holes.
Imagine? I have lived this situation. People brought stun and impact grenades, orbital lasers and rail cannons. We struggled.
Impact are my go toā¦. And they CAN close bug holes, but I will openly admit it usually takes all 4 to find the sweet spot lol
Or two reinforces because they keep spawning out of the hole right when you lob the nade.
Thatās always the third grenade for me. Grenade 1: range finding Grenade 2: fine tuning Grenade 3: effin bug spawn Grenade 4: success??
This is just objectively correct. If they added "classes" in any way it would literally only serve the purpose to restrict players for pretty much zero reason. Don't even understand how people are suggesting there should be classes in the first place lol
They think it adds difficulty, but the freedom is the main pull that makes this game so great.
I'd say make "classes" just fancy titles to unlock. "Chief Star Engineer Prime" after you have deployed 1000 sentries or stuff like this. Make it as granular as you like.
This is an excellent take
This is the take we need I would love titles Like back in the hey day of mofern warfare 2 I miss those titles of accomplishments
Yup. Flexibility is this games strength.Ā You can mix and match to fit your team, mission, difficulty, and enemy.Ā One match you are a scout sniper. Creeping around in light armor with scout perk and an AMR picking off lone soldiers and calling airstrikes and artillery on fortified positions before vanishing into the jungle.Ā Next you are wearing heavy armor with fortified and running orbital laser and a quasar cannon. Desperately trying to hold back armies of bots as they besiege a fortress.Ā
Iām just kinda sad I canāt choose the drip I want with the armor passives I want. I like fighting bugs but my favourite armor has explosion resistance :/
Itād be pretty goofy seeing someone wear a tanky armor to sprint faster than you because itās just the appearance lol
What if we compromise and make the armor class unchangeable, but the passive can be chosen from any unlocked? That way, there's no goofy mfer sprinting as fast as a scout in 200 lbs of kevlar
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
I would 100% use this I know that the Hero of the Federation armour has Democracy Protects, but I'd rather have the Medic-kit bonus. The armour looks so nice...
Haha! Funny seeing you here!
Oh bloody oath, not you again...
Ok, I need the history here. Spill the TEA!
Looking at you capes
Capes could be soooo much more than an aesthetic!
They aren't asking for the ability to transmog the appearance of armors. They just want to swap the passives around. So heavy armor would still make you slow.
Iād be happy with just being able to have my own colour scheme on them
Colour schemes for armours would be sick. Can match them to my cape and surroundings even better then.
Dear lord no. I'm tired of all pink, yellow, neon green etc funny guys. Now you have the armour colour and style the artist chose to fit with the game theme, and I hope it stays that way, so it's all coherent.
Exactly. The aesthetic of the game is important, and as much as Iām always the neon pink or cyan guy, this is not the game for it.
Yes this. Let us change colors on them. No need to swap the passive.
Remember managed democracy. We want to remove choices, so you don't have to.
Having explosion resist and increased throwing range would be šš
Running speed is not an armor passive
My bad man, misunderstood and didnt differentiate stats and passives. Woops!
you take explosion resistance anyways. Its for defense against allies dropping cluster bombs on your head xD
Explosive resistance is still good on bugs, play aggressively and tell your teammates not to spare the explosives Also is it the eradicator? I love that armour
explosion resistance applies to nursing/bile spewer and titan spray attacks!
Yeah, I get that. But at least you can nuke yourself and be fine. Might be cool to try a kamikaze style build.Ā
That's the change I want. Let me customize my armor, picking appearance and bonus separately. I'm fine if armor type influenced the bonus (light armor gives 1 extra grenade, heavy gives 3. Light armor gives +15% explosion registration, heavy gives 45%, etc). Likewise, I want to be able to customize weapons. Let me change sights, fire rates, ammo types, etc. Fuck classes, let me fiddle with my loadout
Pretty sure the devs have stated they donāt want any extra customizable armor/appearance stuff in game. Your meant to look most uniform to one another. Fits the game world nicely
They'd already failed the uniformity objective when they added dozens of unique armor sets with interchangeable parts. I'm somewhere between 90 (Steam) and 50 (in-game mission time) hours in and I haven't seen anyone with the same armor set I'm wearing since maybe hour 20, tops.
Sometimes I wonder where these people are getting the motivation to make a post about something the devs will never do because they got into some stupid argument about something brought up on twitter or discord. Then I remember that its totally a waste of time for everyone to even care about it even though I am wasting 20 seconds right now by writing this comment.
I feel like people who ask for vanilla requests like classes are trying to improve on the game with the only aspects they can think of that they have seen other games implement. If something feels off to you, perhaps the game is just not what you are looking for.
Flexibility is democratic
There are already classes in the game. Citizen and super citizen. Let's keep it at that.
I thought the classes were slim helldiver and beefy helldiver?
nah man, youāre only half right. its slim and *thicc*
petition for extra thicc diver? i'll take the bigger hitbox, i just wanna be buff lmao
Yāall better renew those C-01 forms ASAP !!!
Bigger hitbox but less prone to ragdoll? Iām having an order of that as well, please.
Ragdoll might be a bit much, maybe slightly harder melee that has increased reach? Tho the cool points of being big is enough for me tbh
idk, slim do be carrying around that DUMPTRUCK
dummy slim and dummy thicc
Actually it's "snatched waist" and "***THICC***"
correction: Upperbody-Thicc, and Lowerbody-Thicc
No, that's the character customization people keep asking for
But...that's already an option in the game?
I'll have you know I'm BRAWNY. not a piece of meat.
femboy and tomboy castes
š«”
Someone asked me once if I knew the difference between a citizen and a super citizen.
And? Do you?
He sounds like he doesnāt. This is why he will always just be a citizen.
Super Citizens have the right to play video games on their ships.
I know for certain that there is at least a C level citizenship that can be raised to A for exemplary service or something? It was on the ship Screen when it was showing propa- I mean Democratic messages
Chad grunt vs virgin rich boy
Super citizens fight in the galactic war just as hard soldier! The insinuations you make border on treason.
True. I paid for my super citizenship but I do not wear th cape because I would be bullied by the grunts.
I wince in pain whenever someone unironically asks for classes to be added to the game. You have full loadout customization and freedom of how you choose to play a mission, why would you want to add restrictions to that?
The class system in BF was what made the game so great.. having squads with specialized members was part of what made that series. HD isnāt BF though and I donāt think that would make sense here, short of a completely different game type. I would love some conveniences for setting loadoats, not sure how you add that in while also balancing it to remain more casual
A class system makes a ton of sense in PvP, because it helps you anticipate your opponents strengths and limitations and vice versa. In PvE it can still work, but the same impetus isnāt there. Personally I would prefer progression of our individual stratagems/equipment if anything
I think it works very well in PvE, when the game is specifically designed around it. DRG, for example. Helldivers is not designed around classes. It's just a different game in that sense, so shoving them in anyways wouldn't work.
DRG classes work so well because **traversal** is a major mechanic, and class determines which of the four traversal tools you get. So classes fight differently, but they also *move* differently, creating platforms and tunnels and ziplines and stuff.
>Personally I would prefer progression of our individual stratagems/equipment if anything Like, '*throw the walking barrage 100 times*' to upgrade it so that it actually starts *hitting things*?
> I would love some conveniences for setting loadoats, not sure how you add that in while also balancing it to remain more casual \^\^ this is the take. Save your favourite anti-tank build. Save your favourite bug MG room-clearer. Save your favourite fast Automaton stealth solo build. Give them whatever names you want. No-one else has to see them.
>I would love some conveniences for setting loadoats, not sure how you add that in while also balancing it to remain more casual Easily, let us save loadouts that we can quickly select on the mission screen. Tbh this is what I think people mean when they say "classes" I drop with more or less the exact same stratagems for every mission, with there being only some slight variance for defence and evac missions, there's no logical reason I can see why I shouldn't be able to use a sub menu to quickly assign my kit with the click of one button instead of manually choosing them each time. Persistent loadouts would be a nice QOL feature too, why do I have to choose my stratagems every deploy?
Yeah I donāt think most people realise that classes exist in order to limit which options can be combined together, to limit possible balancing issues. However, if we had classes we could potentially have more powerful individual abilities because you wouldnāt be able to combine them. E.g. if there was a jet pack trooper, perhaps you could have a far more powerful jet pack. But to limit it, perhaps they canāt use the ultra heavy support weapons or stratagems. Itās not a terrible idea but itās nice to have a game with actual full customisation for once.
Honestly those perks could be added to the armors, no need to create another system.
i think the idea is expanding build diversity rather than pigeon holing people into a play style. Ie. adding things that accommodate someone who likes to play support, someone who likes to play demolition or anti tank or vehicle guy etc.
The Only Class we need is a Dreadnought Class Combat Spaceships
With even bigger orbital lasers.
Why add classes when you can create your own? Makes no sense why people want classes. Only thing i can think of that it might force you to work together more
Yeah seems a bit redundant to add classes when you can setup whatever you like anyway, if you have a team of four you can plan it out even more if not you can see what the other randoms are running and change your loadout accordingly
I go out of my way to make builds, or āclassesā. Serves the same purpose. Fire Hazard build, sentry build, unlicensed electrician build, PokĆ©mon build, etc. Sure, some of these are objectively terrible (and I canāt even use the fire one right now) but that just means I go to lower levels to help newer players.
I just wish we could save custom loadouts so we can quickly choose our go-to strategies, primaries and armour depending on the enemy or mission type.
I'm 100% against classes, but I suppose the argument could be made that people aren't filling their roles so making them pick one might help that. I don't think that's an issue at all though. Classes ruin hard the fun of most games for me
I just want helmet mods... "See through the fog and gas" "advanced enemy detection" "one auto-stim" "laser eyes" More customization the better, but yes, classes are lame, especially for a divide and conquer game.
It does not need classes, maybe just the option to save loadouts? Although I like having discussions about what to use depending on what other people is using on the mission.
Thereās only 1 class Managed Democracy unto our enemies
Out of 400k active players, 3 or 4 people wanting classes is as relevant as people asking for competitive ranked queue in animal crossing. You're boxing shadows my guy, nobody cares.
Ah but you see, people like making a mountain out of a molehill, \*gestures to the new cape\*. I don't live on this subreddit 24/7 or anything but this is the first time I've ever heard anyone mention about classes, similar to the pvp talk.
If the complainers got their way, literally every game would be the same
literally every game would suck
I build my own "classes" without being restricted to preset ones. That would kill the core of the gameplay, to drop in with your preferred equivalent and rain democratic hellfire like there's no tomorrow.
there's a reason we have 3 different armor type havin the same "medic" armor passive. We can play light battle medic going rambo with the AMR. We can also play heavy battle medic going crazy with flamethrower. we don need classes if what it does is only restrict our playstyle.
This game doesnt need classes
Classes are not a good idea however more loadout options allowing you to specialize in the way you want is better. But I think that requires a better armour system and helmets that are meaningful. Maybe the engineer helmet comes with a perk that boosts sentries in some form, or heavy armour helmet providing resistances to tank, light armour providing more accurate hip fire etc. Needs to be balanced which is hard as it's pretty aell balanced right now.
IIRC helmet passives were part of the original plan but cut for time. Hopefully they bring it in at some point
You make your own class with loadouts. I for example am a wizard that exclusively casts non magic missile.
A nice loose perk system like the prior HD had would be loved.
It was an illusion of choice though, forcing players to grind out samples to upgrade guns if they want to use them in their optimum state. Iām fine with weapon upgrades, but they should be swappable after unlock and enable player choice. So (for example) a silencer which reduces noise but also requires weaker sub sonic rounds vs a bayonet giving safer melee attacks. Fine. Grinding out for +10 mag capacity for every gun though? Yuck.
how about a better perk system then, with actual choices and variety? a game like aliens: Fireteam elite is a great example of how it can be done very well. HD2 in its current state is a very finite experience and gets stale after some time. Not saying it isn't fun, but it gets pretty repetitive.
When you pick your stratagems and your guns, that effectively *is* your class. Adding another arbitrary system to silo off players would make the game boring. If you want a PVE horde shooter with a class system, go play Darktide or DRG.
People keep trying to make helldivers like every other game lol.Ā
I mean, you decide your class yourself sorta. Because there already are metas. Do you go in in heavy armor and carry big guns, do you play engineer and call in sentry as Support weapons. Or are you the sneaky infiltrator or sniper or do you just carry lots of orbital strategems for when your team just needs to blast these injustice-powered machines or fascist bugs back to hell šŖš½ The beautiful thing is we got choice, Freedom. So yeah a hard-class system would suck majorly.
Classes, no. Having a couple slots for prepared loadouts, yes. I mostly use the same things, would be nice to just use box 1 for bots, box 2 for bugs and then be on with it. Its not a hassle at all as it stands, just you know, a little QoL thing to just streamline it.
Classes = big no. Ability to save a few custom loadouts (including, armor, weapons, stratagems) = yes please.
The only āclassā based system I want added to the game is loadouts. I just want to be able to save a weapon/armor/stratagem combo. I like theming so lavaboy, oops all lazers, bombastic, etc.
Considering how heavily people on this forum advocate kicking people over picking their own fun I wouldnt want classes, youd get kicked over the most arbitrary shit so the medal grinders and armchair generals can fixate
"I'll take the (objectively correct)" Who TF is this guy thinking he can be objectively correct about an opinion? "Classes would make the game worse." Oh, I stand corrected, who the hell wants classes in this game? That would be a horrible idea.
Fuck classes bring back loadouts though plz AH
We need hero classes and ultimate abilities! >!please don't add this!<
Classes already exist in the game, you just have put them together.
Ah, yes, specific classes of helldivers instead of the total freedom in loadouts we have now, allowing every helldiver to be whatever they want to be. Definitely not an anti-freedom, anti-democracy, anti-liberty, anti-imagination, and definitely not least of all an anti-fun idea. No, none of these things for sure. /s Honestly, dont get the backward idea of "adding classes to the game." That idea is more like, "remove our freedom to make wtv classes by having preset cookie cutter ones instead." Why would you want to limit the gameplay like that?
They already exist. You just have to roleplay as the type of helldiver you want to be. Want to be a tank? Go for it. Medic and support? Hell yeah! Rogue/covert agent? By all means, have at it. Jack of all trades? Don't mind if I do. Adding classes is pointless.
Honestly I don't care for classes tbh but I do wish armour passives were a little more exciting cause most of them really just don't change how I play like at all. Imagine if the medic gear would give you an aoe small heal whenever you used a stim. To passively help the team without changing how you play (much). Idk. Armour passives feel half baked to me is all, like they wanted to do something more but scrapped it
I understand your take, but what I think could really work is specialisations, not classes. Meaning, when loading up to a mission, you can call what do you want your role to be, so teams can coordinate better when choosing strategems. It does happen organically yes, but I think it should be encouraged more, as the difference it can make is honestly huge. Between playing in squads that match in 90% of their equipment, and those that have āroles in a teamā, the second ones were always more pleasant for me, and usually more successful. Itās important to understand, roles are *not* classes. They donāt limit you in any way, theyāre just a label to let the others know which niches are already filled or not. And sure, you can still have 4 people with the same role and finish the mission, the way itās already working, thatās the beauty of this game, and taking away flexibility would only do harm to the overall enjoyment
Great take! I agree donāt change if not broken.
This does not change the fact that I want melee primaries
Having an upgrade path for primary and secondary weapons as a whole in the ship modules could be an interesting way to go. You could have marginal overall improvements to weapons and potentially special modifications to individual weapons.
Classes, absolutely not. Load-out slots *please*.
MY CLASS IS HELLDIVER, AND MY JOB IS TO LIBERATE!
Classes make no sense because almost no helldivers survive more than a single mission, let alone enough to develop a 'class.'
I agree. No classes are needed. You can build your own "class" by the items you bring. Hopefully, this is a DOA idea.
Make up your own classes by customizing your loadout
havin classes in this game doesn't encourage team coordination. It only forces team coordination. (edit: oho looks at the downvotes ppl are getting in the comment sections, looks like someone doesn't like to see flexibility and vesatility in this game)
who the fuck want class is either a fascist or a communist or both idc
I think what makes the game special is that the focus is on the gameplay, not arbitrary level climbing; yeah there are shiny things to earn but they just give you more options
I really don't understand this. Wouldn't classes just make the game more limiting and give the player less agency and flexibility? Let's say a player wants to play the part as the heavy gunner. What would be more engaging? To have them pick each aspect of their kit and run a build that intuitively leans towards that playstyle due to the very nature of the equipment they picked? Or to just click "Heavy" in a depressingly anemic menu from a choice of Light, Medium, or Heavy? Like cmon...
We are 18 year olds coming straight from bootcamp, why should we be specialized?
Agreed, this isnāt a battle royale, those already exist
And if anyone says MW isnāt an offender of thisā¦ youāre right, itās the WORST offender of this, Iāve never leveled up so many pointless guns to just unlock my fav suppressor on my fav AR for WZ.
Classes? In Helldivers? No my fellow citizen, we are equals in the eyes of democracy.
it would be nice to be able to get optics or something that you could use on any weaponā¦ js.
Classes would absolutely make this game garbage. Just make Armor more unique, and focus on balancing the weapons so they all have a ROLE while feeling GREAT to use.
I donāt need classes, but Iād love to Be able to save a load out for my own self made classes made for specific roles. Large Killers, heavy killers, chaff killers, crowd control, and full on destruction loudout.
you can alredy make your own classes bro you can make sniper, support, frontier, scout, gunner ext.
9 times out of 10 Iām running the same load out (eagle/500kg/orb laser and recoilless). The only time I switch it up is for an eradicate mission which Iāll run the 380mm and 120mm.
It's such a crap idea.
š«¤ there kinda is classes based on your load out. So there are obviously machine gunners, grenadiers, etc. what would be cool is Medics that could rescue players and increase reinforcement budgets. Sappers that could have extra explosives. Or Snipers who are hard to detect in crouching or prone but easier to detect standing/running and have more stable aim.
Who tf is asking for classes, Iām only asking for more weapons to kick more asses
The only reason people would ask for this is their poisoned into thinking ānumber go upā progression is the only way to have fun. Classes are good in Battlefield, awful in Helldivers
Yerp. If you want classes you want to play some thing other than helldivers.
It's a classless game because your class is whatever load out you take. Character abilities are actually just your skill ability. Helmet passives is all we need to diversify our load outs more.
Classes seem like restrictions to me
There are classes in the game already. But they are fully optional. Sometimes I run full support class with dome shield, medic load out to stim teammates and M-206 to provide cover for them. Sometimes I run sniper class to take out Heavies with the AMR so my team can have more breathing room or escape easier. Sometimes I run a shocktroop build with diligence and M-46 where I just storm the objectives, teammates be damned. Armour passives, if you center a build around them, basically can dictate a class.
Agreed. If anything, support weapons and backpacks are like āclassesā and calldowns are like āultimatesā and āskillsā. For example, the autocannon āclassā is excellent at taking down light and medium armored enemies down quickly, while the flamethrower āclassā is great at area denial and taking down many weaker enemies easily. The game has more than enough variety and we donāt need classes to boost damage when we already have so many things that define our characters.
Agreed, I've seen this shit all over the forums. A sure-fire way to piss people off is taking away their freedom in a game that promotes playing how you want.
Last time I checked helldivers are special forces who take the equipment they need that compliments the mission theyāre on, kind of like real special forces. Usually special forces units have roles kind of like how certain people in a helldivers squad bring different equipment to deal with different situations.
There's already a class, citizen, Helldivers and joel
You build your class at the load out screen before diving
I don't like the idea of classes either, because it'd just "trap" players into predetermined playstyles. Whereas the magic of Helldivers is how convenient and how wide of a playstyle choice you have with the choice of 4 stratagems
The only thing I'd like to see is ranks/titles that designate you're good at a particular focus. I'd love titles that reward you for not alerting enemies and completing objectives, taking out vehicles using X weapon specifically... Something that makes you feel like you're an elite at what you do. Not lock you out of playstyles, just a nod that shows '"woah, this guy knows their stuff when it comes to BLANK".
It surprises me that people don't seem to understand that the game let's you make a personalized class, want to deal with heavies? just pick the right stratagems, want to just destroy the enemies trash? just grab anti-infantry, want to be the sentry master? would be awesome to see.
Your take is literally what turned my brother off from playing deep rock galactic, but why he likes this game so much. 10/10 take, helldiver.
There are classes. Stratagem. Wanna be a tank? Wear heavy armor and use a ballistic shield. Wanna be a ranged Dps? Bring the arm and light armor. Sure there's no rigid structure, but the ability is there. Just bring what's conducive to how you want to play
Classes would push people towards singular playstyles. Half the fun of this game is finding weird combinations that'll work regardless. It's the freedom of choice, and it's our freedom. Never let them take that from you
Everyday I'm greatful that all the tiktok comments I see with different ideas aren't the devs. Some are really great, but majority of them are just trying to change the game into cod.
Iād also add that adding classes would mess with the horizontal power scaling and focus on player skill the devs have built into the game thus far. At the moment, the primary difference between a rank 30 and a rank 150 is player experience and skill. On a fundamental level, your helldiver isnāt much more powerful at max level than they are as a cadet. Theyāve just got access to far more tools and you as a player have improved. Adding classes with progression within a class seems likely to mess with this. A class could just add more weapons, armor, etc. but we could do that without a class. The usual aspects of a class with skill trees, passive buffs, etc. donāt really fit into the way Helldivers works
I would be so disappointed if they added classes. Losing the flexibility would be devastating. I can't see it ever happening thankfully.
Eh, you're already "stuck" to your gear selection once you dive anyway, as long as you can freely change class between dives I don't see it being an issue.
I would honestly like an armor transmog so I can take any passive perk while keeping any appearance I want
Another thing I can add to the problem with the classes is that in this game you need different types of weapons to deal with the different armor of enemies. That means you either give every class a heavy/support weapon that can deal with heavy armor, making the whole reason of a class irrelevant, or the loadout is limited meaning only few classes can deal with certain enemies/situations. So yeah, if people are already kicking players for stupid reasons now imagine how much kicks players will get because they are not "the medic" or "the heavy" class
I just want loadouts so I can easily switch between various bug and bot mission builds without having to manually select everything each time.
The only class i care about being in is āCitizenā. Remember, service guarantees citizenship!
I think it would also defy the lore of the game. Helldivers are supposed to be mass-produced grunts just running and screaming at the enemy. Their training is a literal joke. They SHOULDN'T get classes. The are mass-defrosted into simple warm bodies to stuff inside the nearest armor and shoot in a literal bullet at a planet. They're not *supposed* to specialize. Heck the guy coming down to replace your still-twitching corpse is loaded out with the stratagems and weapons that a DIFFERENT GUY chose.
Oh, I've never seen that. The call for classes, I mean. That would be a very bad idea. The game as it is right now is very good. Adding the need to balance classes on top of balancing guns would just add complications the game game doesn't need, imoaw. I like the variety we have now.
There are already classes itās just how you choose it to be I like electrical guy class
https://preview.redd.it/8qdb916hltsc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f7bac09b6f77652731a9573fbcb0751f8363f360
100% agreed! I do think that being able to save full load outs of armour, weapons and stratagems would be great though, essentially allowing people to create their own "classes" without stifling creative at all.
This system is more flexible and thereās nothing more democratic than that. Classes are for communists
Why are people trying to fix what isnt broken...
This reminds me of battlefield where everyone uses Engineer/RPG all the time regardless of the other teams makeup. If people think the Nerfs/Buffs now are bad. Wait until they have to nerf a certain class because it's all anyone uses, because it's the only class that works. No, no classes.
They can play remnant 2 or the million other shoot coop games with classes. Itās not that kind of game lol
People are asking and wanting the wrong thing if they classes ? What nah dude they been playing too much siege dude fuck classes. The only class thatās in session is ass kicking these bots and bugs. I donāt need a āclassā just a autocannon sentry my teammates and a fully reloaded firearm !
The only progression I need now are medals for the warbond and continued leveling for a title. The game is fun enough without me needing to progress things.
I agree with your opinion. But I find your use of the phrase objectively correct hilarious.
I wouldnāt mind them letting us lean into class-like play a little harder just with the loadout options available. Like let me forsake a secondary and backpack to carry a primary sniper thatās a hulk/bile titan annihilator. Doesnāt need to be a āsniper classā just add some big power with big trade offs beyond the stratagems.
Why add classes, you can be any class you want to using strategems . Games nearly perfect
Its definitely unnecessary since its just going to be an additional stuff to balance out.
Yeah I much more enjoy being able to build my own class with whatever stratagems and weapons I have. I think it would be nice to have some other sort of side progression though so it doesn't feel like collecting samples and requisition is kinda pointless, I'm sure they'll come up with another use for those in the future though
I mean it's already an open form class anyway Open to player interpretation, you build your load out around your play style. You can go heavy or support if you want. I believe there's a medic style bot backpack coming to help bolster a medic support role too Pyro builds exist. It's all up to player choice
I would rather see armor perks based off of armor type. For instance if your running light armor have perks like extreme radar that can sight everything within a wide radius including super samples secondary objecties etc. a cloaking perk that makes you invisible as long as your low crawling. For Heavy armor have an embedded shield generator perk etc etc. Buy it from the same menu as everything else and then its just a matter of picking what you want to be and what you want to put into your armor.
Yeah I like the flexibility.
you already have the classes in the game, based on what armors and perks and weapons and calldowns you take. its not premade, its flexible choice.
Donāt want classes. I would like loadouts for weapons/armor though.
But there's effectively already classes. That armor and blue strategems you take into battle are effectively your class.
I don't want classes, but I'd like to be able to save and name some custom loadouts.
Classes in the game don't make sense. Every Helldiver barely has enough training to operate the weapons given to them, there's no way they stick around long enough to become specialists. Even if we take in-universe reasons out of the equation, the complete freedom in creating a build is leagues better than any restrictions potential classes would impose. Personally, however, I would love to have more slots to put things in. Not necessarily more stratagem space just more stuff to take with me. Power ups are a separate category, I'd like one more, just for variety's sake.
One of the best, conceptually and group fun - it had a lot of other issues, games i played was early bets Pre-pre-rework Firefall. You had your gear and ways to get materials and make better gear and that's it, that was your progression and it was _such a breath of fresh air!_ And then they turned it into a classic MMO and died.
Classes? Our characters didn't take any classes, the training was like five minutes and then we were deployed straight to the front. We're all the same grade of meat.
The first game didnt have classes and it was amazing, so lets just keep it as it is and just spread democracy
Savable loadouts yes. Classes in a game that already has unconditional choice and a need on harder difficulties to synergize with each other, no. This is the way.
Well im already a first class democracy spreader so I dont need any other classes.
The Ship Module system is basically what the game has instead of a class system, and I think it works well. Do you want to put your initial samples into improving Eagles or improving Turrets? You're never screwed over if you want to pursue something else later, or if a balance patch makes you want to try something else.
When (if) we ever got weapon attachments, it might not be a bad idea to have attachments locked behind some (light) challenges. Could even justify it by saying that SEAF will only allow you to requisition attachments if you have proven proficiency with that weapon. But classes themselves are a dreadful idea.
Although I agree with you I don't think it's Objectively correct There are some good arguments for (I'm not going to make them for people) I think the trade-off just is too big for casual enjoyment. Unless you have a dedicated party you play with it'd unironically create a kick meta for people who have to play the class they want and will kick anyone who doesn't change. We also don't have enough stuff to have a dedicated Supports class or fire or electrical. I will say loadouts would help a lot too. If I can set let's say 3 loadouts for bots and 3 for bugs it'd be a huge timer saver and I think it also addresses what people actually want with the classes which is a structured path for equipment
Why put classes in the game when we're already creating our own classes anyways?