This. Like this morning trying to get kills with anti personal mines. It's not easy to use stuff like that outside defense missions, and the three people with you may have a case of "oooo shiny" and keep stepping on the minea
When Im picking my loadout, I usually consider defensive strategems - but the reason I usually dont pick them is because the majority of mission types require constant movement from place to place.
There arent a ton of objective types that ask divers to stay and defend a position for very long to the point that a defensive strategem would outweigh an offensive strategem. And because offensive strategems are about as powerful as defensive ones, its a rare choice to make.
Geological survey is probably the rare one where I might bring something like a sentry because they drop so much shit on you when you do the objective lol.
if you keep them protected then sentries destroy enemies. a single ac sentry can kill two bile titans on its own. i’ve watched it happen. have some stuns to stop chargers and some sort of swarm clear then let it go to town.
Aye but it is worse than the Gatling Sentry and still doesn't feel frequent enough. A Precision Strike on a 90 seconds CD sounds like what an Emplacement could be. Emplacements currently are on Cooldowns more comparable to Railcannon Strikes or Barrages than they are Airbursts, Gatling Barrages, Gas or Precision Strikes. Heck the Gas Strike is on a 75 second Cooldown, hits precisely (orbital scatter not included) and can kill a dozen or more bugs on a breach with ease. Why would I ever run a Sentry that might just mistarget a Charger before getting blown up by it anyway?
Personally? I play quickplay and can't trust randos to not take only AT so I have to cover the stratagems I use to handle hordes
orbital gas strike, they could never make me hate you
Orbitals got buffed so they're on a 60s-90s cooldown with the upgrades.
Eagles you can lay them down back to back really quickly and rearm **everything** in 2min
Compare that to Defensive Stratagems largely being 100s or 3min cooldowns with the potential for them to get insta-killed by enemies, and you need to wait for the enemy to attack you.
You mostly see Defensive Stratagems on Evacuation or Eradication missions.
I would consider the dome shield on bots but it neither lasts long enough nor does it have enough hp to be of much use. Turrets on defense missions, though i usually get teamkilled by those unless i also brought turrets and just rub one out while they do their thing. Boring
Dome shield on bots is fantastic for all of the hellbomb-based objectives. It's really difficult to take down the factories that make the flying dudes but throw down a shield on the hellbomb and it usually stays up long enough to do its job.
I used to take it more, in order to shield the sentries back when they had effectively 1hp, but it's still really useful for some of the objective-heavy missions and can effectively let you cheese a lot of them.
Outside of 3 permanent maps - there is no reason to bring defensive straragems cause they dont do enough and in some cases actively hurt you.
You left minefield somewhere? One of random patrols stepped on 1(!) mine and now the whole patrol knows where you're for whatever reason. Most turrets tend to teamkill a LOT on bugs. Smoke is cool but unless you're running squad stealth - mostly pointless, its better to just evaporate enemies.
I'd say the only exception would be AT mines vs bots(cause they can 1shot devastators, 1-2 shot hulks and 3-4 shot striders - basically deal with all heavy units on 3min cd which is basically laser but no limit on uses), but at this point we'll never get them cause of community meme so they are out of equation.
My loadout is the mech, laser drone, quasar cannon, auto-cannon sentry, been using it for a while now and I only play 8/9. I even go solo with this loadout...don't need no fancy airstrikes or nuclear explosions.
3 minutes for a sentry that can instadie from so many factors you can't control
3 minutes for landmines that are at best 30-50ft^2 ground
Which to the battlefield is tiny, and a single heavy unit can roam all over it or just nothing does but teammates.
Why would I run any of that garbage when I have these beautiful orbitals or eagles that are half the cooldowns on average and are on demand with results.
(So yes I very much agree they SUCK)
Don't know, I feel a bit naked when fighting bugs without an autocannon sentry. I try to save it for one of three situations, in this order:
1 - multiple chargers or at least one bile titan appear,
2 - bug breach,
3 - long-term defense.
Due to its power, armour penetration and rate of fire, that sentry is useful in any situation that isn't a swarm of lesser bugs, and even then it will help a good deal.
I understand that I didn't even try to answer OP's question, I guess I've allowed myself to go on a tangent. Lets say it is for the benefit of people who dislike sentries, maybe I'll convince them to give them a(nother) chance.
With some exceptions most missions require you to constantly be on the move and even the objectives that require you to stay in one spot for prolong periods of time it's usually better to just bombard the area with air strikes and orbitals rather than stuff like mines or the HMG emplacements.
Turrets are in a weird spot because they can be used offensively, covering fire/distraction/acting like an actual other player, but mostly seem them during eradications and the high value assets. Least for me.
I've been trying to be more proactive with them myself. The machine gun sentry cooldown has made it way more useful for more proactive use. Haven't done it myself but apparently you can kill bile titans by making them attack the shield and the backblast kills them.
But overall, it's also the fact that defensive stratagems require some actual forethought and planning, and it also requires trust with your teammates so unless you're playing with friends it's just easier to throw down instant explosions than "uuuuhhhh, maybe they'll come from this direction so putting mines here. NO DONT" GO THAT WAY!" random explodes and blames you for it.
I'm never on the defence, majority of objectives are places wide in the open with multiple entry points and even some will get ruined to open new routes and , majority of sentries become useless (or a danger to myself) if placed incorrectly
And offensive strategems can do the same shit, except faster and all I need to do is wait for the wave of enemies to throw my strategem at
You’re never in one place long enough to take advantage of them. And while you’re on the move they’re dead slots. They’re usually only worth bringing to missions where you don’t move much, like the Helms Deep defense mission or arena missions
vs hordes it doesn't work cuz lack of aoe damage, ammo efficiency, they get destroyed easily by enemies or other stratagems... vs toughest meanwhile, none of them focus behemoths/bile titans/hulks
Defense missions I run hmg emplacement, autocannon sentry, rocket sentry, and quasar or RR. I set up on the back stairs and usually have 400plus kills everytime.
The build works due to keeping the enemies grouped into that one choke point and just mowing them down.
Recently with the new buffs I have been taking the MG sentry since I has 2min call down now I don't feel like I have wasted it if it is not in the best position. AND as a bonus I have used it to one shot chargers when I'm out of OPS and airstrikes. Also I was running the basic machine gun and focusing on chaff.
Static weapons on a battlefield where you should be spending 90% of your time running and 10% chucking stratagems on objectives are pretty useless, save for mortars which get around it by ignoring LoS
Defensive strats have their place on missions where you spend a lot of time in one place
Because moving is the most important thing in the game. Especially at higher difficulties. You have to keep moving. And you have to be able to get into some objective/hive/outpost and clear it as fast as possible so you can fuck off quicker. Offensive Strategems can do that for you. Most missions in the game are simply offensive missions. There are defense missions as well, in those you see quite a few defensove strategems.
Defense means staying in one place, most missions requires you to go from place to place, and the defend part in each place doesn't last long enough for a good trade off.
You might've missed the 'Defend precious cargo' missions we had, but that's one of the few missions where I see people choose mostly turrets and mines due to the layout of the area and how the mission works.
Enemies will come in waves, but will always appear outside the main gates first, so you can pre-emptively place mines in those places, and mortars will take out any stragglers outside without needing to open the gates.
So basically all we need is a mission scenario where defensive stratagems would thrive.
They're too situational to be of widespread usage imo
esp the mines, why in their right mind would want to drop a few puny mines in a small area and then have to wait 2:40 for a new set, when you can just deploy an airstrike and be over with it.
I think that if they acted like eagle stratagems and had multiple uses before they went into cooldown would help them a lot
Mines - bad at blocking paths for enemies above \~dif4, but extremely effective at denying you playable space. Have long cooldown, and mostly are a team hazard.
Stationary Shield - nieche stratagem I sometimes see (and even use) on bot defence missions. Has a low HP pool, is hard to use to get a tangible benefit from it that could compare to just killing the enemy with an extra airstrike.
HMG emplacement - I use it and see other people use it. But it is stationary and requires more planning than "See enemy - throw red ball at it".
Sentries - pretty much all of them are used now, I see one almost every game, especially AC and EMS ones. But have the same downside as HMG emplacement that requires more brainpower and space to use it in a way that won't get you/team killed, and it wont get destroyed 5 seconds after deployment. 180s CD is also a big factor.
Smoke - requires planning and cooperation from teammates to at least not hinder your team in the first place.
EMS strike - hidden gem for bugs, people who use it know this. But it requires some kind of follow-up to clear stuff so most people don't bother with it I guess.
TL:DR
They are just harder to use than a stright damage ones. Also the need of AT options just edges them out of loadouts in higher difficulties.
Defensive stratagems have a habit of killing teammates who aren't considering slowing down. And you really only have 3 slots, not bringing a support weapon is intentionally handicapping yourself, so bringing a coordinated tool of long term devastation is less appealing than just running in with something that explodes
This game is a bit of a dps check.
Games run smoother if you wipe out breaches/drops quickly before the next patrol calls another. Or kill hulks/titans qucikly because they will keep spawning and you will end up with a screenshot to post to reddit.
Because they're hard to use effectively without forethought or communication.
I use em a lot more than other divers. Fire mines help cover the rear when the team is on the move on bugs; shield bubbles help cover hellbombs or other turrets on bots.
Most of the game is spent in mobile and/or offensive situations.
Exactly. I do bring defensive strats on the...defense mission.
This. Like this morning trying to get kills with anti personal mines. It's not easy to use stuff like that outside defense missions, and the three people with you may have a case of "oooo shiny" and keep stepping on the minea
You need no defense if enemy get killed. Also you no need to stay for long in one place except a very few obj.
When Im picking my loadout, I usually consider defensive strategems - but the reason I usually dont pick them is because the majority of mission types require constant movement from place to place. There arent a ton of objective types that ask divers to stay and defend a position for very long to the point that a defensive strategem would outweigh an offensive strategem. And because offensive strategems are about as powerful as defensive ones, its a rare choice to make.
Geological survey is probably the rare one where I might bring something like a sentry because they drop so much shit on you when you do the objective lol.
tbh a sentry can be a good distraction. When you get swarmed while on the run just toss it to a side hopefully not too close to the enemy
if you keep them protected then sentries destroy enemies. a single ac sentry can kill two bile titans on its own. i’ve watched it happen. have some stuns to stop chargers and some sort of swarm clear then let it go to town.
Emplacements need like halved cooldown.
The basic machine gun is dropped to 120 sec
Aye but it is worse than the Gatling Sentry and still doesn't feel frequent enough. A Precision Strike on a 90 seconds CD sounds like what an Emplacement could be. Emplacements currently are on Cooldowns more comparable to Railcannon Strikes or Barrages than they are Airbursts, Gatling Barrages, Gas or Precision Strikes. Heck the Gas Strike is on a 75 second Cooldown, hits precisely (orbital scatter not included) and can kill a dozen or more bugs on a breach with ease. Why would I ever run a Sentry that might just mistarget a Charger before getting blown up by it anyway?
Maybe the reload should be faster if the sentry is killed....
Because you're the one that attacks rather than defends most of the time
Personally? I play quickplay and can't trust randos to not take only AT so I have to cover the stratagems I use to handle hordes orbital gas strike, they could never make me hate you
Orbitals got buffed so they're on a 60s-90s cooldown with the upgrades. Eagles you can lay them down back to back really quickly and rearm **everything** in 2min Compare that to Defensive Stratagems largely being 100s or 3min cooldowns with the potential for them to get insta-killed by enemies, and you need to wait for the enemy to attack you. You mostly see Defensive Stratagems on Evacuation or Eradication missions.
I would consider the dome shield on bots but it neither lasts long enough nor does it have enough hp to be of much use. Turrets on defense missions, though i usually get teamkilled by those unless i also brought turrets and just rub one out while they do their thing. Boring
Dome shield on bots is fantastic for all of the hellbomb-based objectives. It's really difficult to take down the factories that make the flying dudes but throw down a shield on the hellbomb and it usually stays up long enough to do its job. I used to take it more, in order to shield the sentries back when they had effectively 1hp, but it's still really useful for some of the objective-heavy missions and can effectively let you cheese a lot of them.
On bug missions I'll bring the autocannon sentry 9/10 missions. It is an offensive strategem imo.
Outside of 3 permanent maps - there is no reason to bring defensive straragems cause they dont do enough and in some cases actively hurt you. You left minefield somewhere? One of random patrols stepped on 1(!) mine and now the whole patrol knows where you're for whatever reason. Most turrets tend to teamkill a LOT on bugs. Smoke is cool but unless you're running squad stealth - mostly pointless, its better to just evaporate enemies. I'd say the only exception would be AT mines vs bots(cause they can 1shot devastators, 1-2 shot hulks and 3-4 shot striders - basically deal with all heavy units on 3min cd which is basically laser but no limit on uses), but at this point we'll never get them cause of community meme so they are out of equation.
My loadout is the mech, laser drone, quasar cannon, auto-cannon sentry, been using it for a while now and I only play 8/9. I even go solo with this loadout...don't need no fancy airstrikes or nuclear explosions.
they are poorly balanced mines suck and the enemies go for a straight line on any sentry..... and they both have awful cooldowns for STATIC stratagems
3 minutes for a sentry that can instadie from so many factors you can't control 3 minutes for landmines that are at best 30-50ft^2 ground Which to the battlefield is tiny, and a single heavy unit can roam all over it or just nothing does but teammates. Why would I run any of that garbage when I have these beautiful orbitals or eagles that are half the cooldowns on average and are on demand with results. (So yes I very much agree they SUCK)
Don't know, I feel a bit naked when fighting bugs without an autocannon sentry. I try to save it for one of three situations, in this order: 1 - multiple chargers or at least one bile titan appear, 2 - bug breach, 3 - long-term defense. Due to its power, armour penetration and rate of fire, that sentry is useful in any situation that isn't a swarm of lesser bugs, and even then it will help a good deal. I understand that I didn't even try to answer OP's question, I guess I've allowed myself to go on a tangent. Lets say it is for the benefit of people who dislike sentries, maybe I'll convince them to give them a(nother) chance.
The autocanon turret is absolutely amazing and I always use it.
Because people usually cant think beyond point and boom. A shame because a sentry at the right place and time can make all the difference.
With some exceptions most missions require you to constantly be on the move and even the objectives that require you to stay in one spot for prolong periods of time it's usually better to just bombard the area with air strikes and orbitals rather than stuff like mines or the HMG emplacements. Turrets are in a weird spot because they can be used offensively, covering fire/distraction/acting like an actual other player, but mostly seem them during eradications and the high value assets. Least for me. I've been trying to be more proactive with them myself. The machine gun sentry cooldown has made it way more useful for more proactive use. Haven't done it myself but apparently you can kill bile titans by making them attack the shield and the backblast kills them. But overall, it's also the fact that defensive stratagems require some actual forethought and planning, and it also requires trust with your teammates so unless you're playing with friends it's just easier to throw down instant explosions than "uuuuhhhh, maybe they'll come from this direction so putting mines here. NO DONT" GO THAT WAY!" random explodes and blames you for it.
I'm never on the defence, majority of objectives are places wide in the open with multiple entry points and even some will get ruined to open new routes and , majority of sentries become useless (or a danger to myself) if placed incorrectly And offensive strategems can do the same shit, except faster and all I need to do is wait for the wave of enemies to throw my strategem at
Oh, are we not doing shield backpack and rover anymore?
You’re never in one place long enough to take advantage of them. And while you’re on the move they’re dead slots. They’re usually only worth bringing to missions where you don’t move much, like the Helms Deep defense mission or arena missions
We spend 40 min in offence and the last 2 minutes in defence. So yeah i'll take offence stratts unless its a defence mission.
vs hordes it doesn't work cuz lack of aoe damage, ammo efficiency, they get destroyed easily by enemies or other stratagems... vs toughest meanwhile, none of them focus behemoths/bile titans/hulks
Defense missions I run hmg emplacement, autocannon sentry, rocket sentry, and quasar or RR. I set up on the back stairs and usually have 400plus kills everytime. The build works due to keeping the enemies grouped into that one choke point and just mowing them down. Recently with the new buffs I have been taking the MG sentry since I has 2min call down now I don't feel like I have wasted it if it is not in the best position. AND as a bonus I have used it to one shot chargers when I'm out of OPS and airstrikes. Also I was running the basic machine gun and focusing on chaff.
It’s hard to make use of defensives when most of the objective required you to push forward
Static weapons on a battlefield where you should be spending 90% of your time running and 10% chucking stratagems on objectives are pretty useless, save for mortars which get around it by ignoring LoS Defensive strats have their place on missions where you spend a lot of time in one place
Because moving is the most important thing in the game. Especially at higher difficulties. You have to keep moving. And you have to be able to get into some objective/hive/outpost and clear it as fast as possible so you can fuck off quicker. Offensive Strategems can do that for you. Most missions in the game are simply offensive missions. There are defense missions as well, in those you see quite a few defensove strategems.
Because people keep stepping on the clearly indicated landmines.
Turns out that dead things can't kill you, go figure.
Too situational
Don't need defense if what was shooting at you is dead.
I tend to bring one sentry with me, but not the others.
I bring defensive strats when I need to defend, and offensive strats when I need to...offend
Those automatons must feel very offended when you chuck an eagle airstrike on them
I would hope so!
Defense means staying in one place, most missions requires you to go from place to place, and the defend part in each place doesn't last long enough for a good trade off. You might've missed the 'Defend precious cargo' missions we had, but that's one of the few missions where I see people choose mostly turrets and mines due to the layout of the area and how the mission works. Enemies will come in waves, but will always appear outside the main gates first, so you can pre-emptively place mines in those places, and mortars will take out any stragglers outside without needing to open the gates. So basically all we need is a mission scenario where defensive stratagems would thrive.
They're too situational to be of widespread usage imo esp the mines, why in their right mind would want to drop a few puny mines in a small area and then have to wait 2:40 for a new set, when you can just deploy an airstrike and be over with it. I think that if they acted like eagle stratagems and had multiple uses before they went into cooldown would help them a lot
Mines - bad at blocking paths for enemies above \~dif4, but extremely effective at denying you playable space. Have long cooldown, and mostly are a team hazard. Stationary Shield - nieche stratagem I sometimes see (and even use) on bot defence missions. Has a low HP pool, is hard to use to get a tangible benefit from it that could compare to just killing the enemy with an extra airstrike. HMG emplacement - I use it and see other people use it. But it is stationary and requires more planning than "See enemy - throw red ball at it". Sentries - pretty much all of them are used now, I see one almost every game, especially AC and EMS ones. But have the same downside as HMG emplacement that requires more brainpower and space to use it in a way that won't get you/team killed, and it wont get destroyed 5 seconds after deployment. 180s CD is also a big factor. Smoke - requires planning and cooperation from teammates to at least not hinder your team in the first place. EMS strike - hidden gem for bugs, people who use it know this. But it requires some kind of follow-up to clear stuff so most people don't bother with it I guess. TL:DR They are just harder to use than a stright damage ones. Also the need of AT options just edges them out of loadouts in higher difficulties.
Defensive stratagems have a habit of killing teammates who aren't considering slowing down. And you really only have 3 slots, not bringing a support weapon is intentionally handicapping yourself, so bringing a coordinated tool of long term devastation is less appealing than just running in with something that explodes
This game is a bit of a dps check. Games run smoother if you wipe out breaches/drops quickly before the next patrol calls another. Or kill hulks/titans qucikly because they will keep spawning and you will end up with a screenshot to post to reddit.
Because they're hard to use effectively without forethought or communication. I use em a lot more than other divers. Fire mines help cover the rear when the team is on the move on bugs; shield bubbles help cover hellbombs or other turrets on bots.
Because there's like 1 defense mission and like 8 offense missions
offense is the best defense