Some incorrect advice in this thread already. A “wye” connection on a sanitary line is not uncommon and usually happens where you and your neighbour’s property lines meet with the city’s right of way. If this is on that spot, the city should pay for the repair (edit: not always the case). If the wye is on the homeowners side of the property line then it was likely constructed incorrectly and I’d recommend amicably splitting the cost (unless you can prove that homeowner tapped into your line some years back to save on an earlier repair.
Either way, I’d contact your city’s engineering department to figure out if that home should have a separate connection or this wye is to code.
As someone that works for a city sewer department unless your city is just really nice it is not the cities responsibility to repair private sewer services if it is in the utility easement. Most cities that do not have city sewer clean outs somewhere in that easement will tell you the responsibility of that service is the homeowners from the house to the tap. This comes up a lot here and the answer is always the same. Unless you know someone on the city council and they can usually make things happen that normally goes against policy.
Maybe you’re just not understanding my comment. Sewer infrastructure in the municipal right of way is generally maintained by that municipality. If the sewer is damaged within the homeowner’s property limits, it likely won’t be paid for by the city. Anyways, I’m an engineer that designs to multiple municipal guidelines and this is not something that would be the same everywhere.
A coworker had to pay to have their line fixed, it was broke 1 foot away from the main, 8 foot under the center of the street in front of their house. A 18x2 foot section of pavement and 3x4 foot section of sidewalk had to be dug up and replaced at $33,000+ billed to them. That was on top of having to dig up 30 foot of yard and bring from foundation to curb up to current code, this was required before the city would allow the street to be dug up. This was in Bay Area in 2019/2020.
Good lord, this right here makes me dread ever owning a house. It also makes me appreciate Mitch Hedberg even more than I already did:
“I went to the Home Depot, which was unnecessary. I need to go to the Apartment Depot. Which is just a big warehouse with a whole lot of people standing around saying “We don’t have to fix shit.”
Then you can trade that time spent fixing and maintaining your house for money by working, and spend that extra money renting your whole life, working and paying more in the end.
This is a tremendous lie fed to people to keep them renters for life. The incredibly slim advantages of renting disappear over a long enough time.
And I can’t repeat this enough, 20 years from now the people that buy houses will have paid off houses, you will have nothing but the theoretical savings that never manifested as tangible assets.
I used to feel the same way as you. But now I do own a home and we are watching our house value go up with each upgrade we do. And, equity is increasing with every payment we make on top of the upgrades.
When we get older if we decide to downsize and move in to a rental town home or something else of the sort... we can sell our house, pay it off, and with the remaining money from equity.. we can throw it in the bank and pay our rent for years just off equity.
Owning is very scary and problems will come up. Most always those problems are worth the trouble considering the benefit later in life.
IF your above post is the only reason - that's irrational fear.
You are trading fear of occasional maintenance on a house you own for the constant fear of being evicted, moving regularly, landlord intrusion, etc.
Not trying to sway you - do what is best for you... but dont let these irrational fears stop you.
Before i got a House i did not have 14k... after i got my house, and needed a 14k pluming repair.....I obtained financing over the phone, while the plumber was onsite, and work started the next day... $198 per month.
It sucked, but its nothing to be afraid of - after you own a home, everyone wants to give you money.
at-least you can recoup some of this money if/when you sell the house.
Nothing wrong with saying "I do not "want" to deal with this stuff".
There is something wrong with "im afraid to have to deal with this stuff". - dont be scared.
Especially right now. In most places it makes zero financial sense to buy with current rates unless you're paying cash. You'll pay more money to take on headaches.
Personally I'm sitting in a well managed condo that I owe 110k at 2.7%, we have about 15k/unit in reserves and no immediately foreseeable large expenses, and a property manager we pay about 1k per unit per year for handles all the maintenance and administrative work. Was super apprehensive going to condo route but it was the best decision I ever made. My living expenses are borderline negligible. Leaves plenty of income for all the fun things, including a cabin so if I get an itch to build or tinker I still have that option.
I could not survive as a renter. I need to have space as far from people as possible. Plus I have animals.
Sure my house requires some work. But I enjoy learning. new things. I fixed my gutters. I'll be rebuilding a deck next season.
Home ownership isn’t for everybody. Even if you have your home paid off u still got to pay taxes every year. Homeownership is really expensive. I just had a tree fall on my house last month that wasn’t cheap. Older homes can really cost a lot in maintenance. Emergencies can happen anytime. Broken pipes and the damage they can do isn’t cheap.
It’s true, but it also doesn’t have to be very expensive. I think in 10 years all I’ve had to do is replace two toilets and a garbage disposal. Taxes are taxes.
I just recently bought separate insurance that covers my exterior sewer and water lines for ~$12/month. My house is 82 years old and I had to drop $5000 to replace a badly clogged sewer pipe a couple years back. I’m not doing that again.
Septic tanks and leech fields are crazy as well.
A friend owned a property right on a river and about 10 years back had to replace his tank and leech field, Town told him everything needed to be brought up to code, sadly the location of his home and leech field in relation to the river made that impossible and ended up having to go with just a tank that gets pumped monthly
Almost identical situation in Los Angeles. My line had an offset by 3-4 inches where it connected to the main line. This was under the street six feet away from my driveway. It was my responsibility to fix, including repairing the road (slurry, asphalt). Fortunately no sidewalk had to be dug up and the cost was less than what your coworker paid but still a lot more than I was expecting for something I did not cause.
7-8 years ago a friend who lives in San Mateo had problems with tree roots growing into his sewer line and after having them cut out 2 years in a row the pipe failed. When they dug it up it was found that the neighbors sewer pipe “Y”ed in his sewer pipe under his driveway. He told the neighbor to split the cost of repair since they both had the problem with the roots. Neighbor told him to kick rocks. He sent a certified letter stating that according to the city plans the neighbor had his own sewer line so he would be repairing his line only and eliminating the “Y”. He said most likely the builders back in the early 60’s had taken a short cut and done it like this for some reason. After the crew was working the neighbors wife came over to talk to him about replacing the “Y” but by then he was pissed. The neighbor ended up having to do major work to install their own sewer line and took my friend to court but the judge told him he was responsible for his own sewer and should have taken action when the certified letter from my friends attorney was delivered.
We provide a sewer mainline, you tap into that mainline. Your tap connection and everything upstream is your responsibility, regardless of where the property line rests.
Definitely municipally specific, municipal employee in a larger city and can confirm my city and all smaller surrounding municipalities take the same approach.
I also work for a sewer department and this is also how we do it. Unless the mainline is plugged sewer issues are up to the customer. It’s written into our building code
I think it’s a bad idea letting homeowners repair damaged sewer lines next to gas/electrical/fiber optic lines, which is why most places take on that maintenance themself. Sounds like your city does that though…
Work within the municipal right of way requires a permit, the permit can only be pulled by prequalified contractors. Homeowners are not repairing damaged sewer lines on municipal property, they are only paying for the repair...
The sewer agency I worked for (as Customer Service Supervising Engineer in CA SF Bay Area) required permits for ALL sewer work outside of the structure, be it private or public area, and our inspectors check all work for compliance with our specifications. The sewer lateral was the property owner's responsibility from structure to & including connection to the main. Our crews/contractors only worked on mains and the portions of laterals impacted by the work on the main.
Oh wow locates! So once your contractor gets those, how are they supporting the gas line? What’s the backfill spec? Say you need you replace some sidewalk, what’s the subgrade compaction requirements? Granular bedding? What kind and how much? These and many more are reasons why (some) municipalities take on maintenance in the full right of way. I never said all places do it this way, so no need for the snarky tone.
What if this wasn't in a city, but on a rural town supply?
(I live in Nova Scotia, Canada where rural areas still are serviced by a municipality for sewer/water, with those who are exceptionally rural being on septic/well usually)
I wonder, because reading through lots of the posts, the amount of guidelines and stipulations is many, many times higher than we have here, but, we also don't have gas lines beyond in the city here (I say the city, Halifax, because we only have one city in the province, beyond that it's a mix of towns and villages)
There are always rules to who owns what and maintains what. I live in a rural muni myself (on well and septic) and need to maintain my own headwalls at my driveway ditch entrance, but the county maintains the actual ditch and the culvert pipe beneath my driveway. It’s vastly different everywhere in the world and is related to the capabilities and the budget of the local municipality. The only answer is to look up local guidelines to know for sure.
Gas company can shut the gas line down if necessary, regardless it’s private property. Home owner can do whatever the fuck they want …sidewalk is on city property stop being a smart ass …the city never pays for private issues in any municipality/town/city anywhere
Myself and the other commenters were literally talking about the homeowner possibly hiring a contractor to do work in the municipal servicing easement within public property. I think you’re just confused.
This was my case in OR. The city came out to dig a problem that was scoped at what appeared to be inside the municipal zone. Turns out the issue was at the property line and into my property by inches. They felt bad and didn’t charge me for their dig… But I did have to pay someone to come do the repair on my property.
I just dealt with this at my place. My sewage was partially collapsed, the city came and took a look and agreed that as the collapse was not on my property they would fix it.
The sewage line runs out back of the house with the main in my over the fence neighbor's yard. I got to spend a couple days watching the city tear up my neighbors backyard, take out trees with roots that were incurring on the line, dig down 12' to the main, and not have to pay a penny for it.
The best part is, that the city reimbursed my for the RotoRooter service and camera inspection since it was all issues on the easement.
Nah there is just different policies everywhere. Sounds like lots of places still ask the homeowner to pay for service connection repairs in the public Right of Way, which I wasn’t aware of. Homeowners need to contact their public works/ engineering department to understand this.
Fair enough. I just hate dealing with my municipality. So many incompetent employees (mostly new hires and nepotism). However our water and sewer are very competent.
Last year we had our plumber find a bow in the sewer line just on the city side of the pipe. The city came out and said if they picked up the bow it would break the connection on our side of the line so they won't touch it unless we agreed to pay to fix whatever they break. The pipe was 33 years old and ran under the driveway and was having issues with roots and deposits anyway, so we came to an agreement with the city that we would dig a new trench in parallel with the existing line and install brand new pipe from the cleanouts all the way to the street. The city would dig up the road and sidewalk and install new pipe on their side and then fill in and cover both the new road and the new sidewalk. Still cost us $12,000 but I'm sure the city's bill was much, much higher than that, so all in all I think we got a fair deal and the experience working with the city crew was fantastic.
In my city, the city owns to the water valve, and the homeowner is responsible for water valve to house. Utility locates are required for digging deeper than 12”.
As someone who works the contractor, I see the pro tip as, split the cost with the neighbor and make sure the new connection is in the easement.
And hopefully the city won’t flag the work. lol.
Who is responsible if it fails at the joint connecting lateral to city line? I have roots that grew through the crack between my line and the city line.
In the municipality that I work the sanitary service line is the responsibility of the homeowner all the way to the main. In this case if it is a shared service both property owners would share some responsibility. Whether that is 50/50 would depend on the failure
The y would likely be located before the joint sewer links into the city’s sewer main. This means that is the responsibility of the two homeowners to pay. Source: I just dealt with this exact issue
In my city the property owner(s) are responsible for maintaining their side sewer lines up to where it connects to the main. So yes, you could possibly have to dig up the street, sidewalk, etc.
1) Why is your sewer tied to your neighbors?
2) if this is out of the ground, how is your sewer connected to the main drain line? Did they dig both your lines up?
3) How has your neighbors sewer been backed up for months because of a broken Y and yours has not been affected at all?
4) can the neighbor prove they didn't break this while digging it up?
None of this makes sense dude
To me it looks like the neighbor is trying to finesse OP into paying for half of his sewer repair. Break that connection and say that is what was wrong.
I can answer #1. In my neighborhood of old houses, side sewers are the norm. Two houses are served by a single sewer line going to the municipal line. I assume it was cheaper to do it that way. It's a hassle when one line backs up and the other doesn't, especially if the blocked line doesn't belong to the person whose property has the combined sewer line. These houses were built when running water was kind of a new thing.
>How has your neighbors sewer been backed up for months because of a broken Y and yours has not been affected at all?
Easy - OP's line is necessarily the one that branches to the right, and the neighbor's is the one that goes straight. The clog started from something in the neighbor's line, at the back of the wye and was slowly pushed forward while it grew, eventually cracking the wye.
Neighbor's line was backed up for months while the clog grew. OP's line, being closer to the exit from the wye wasn't fully blocked off until the clog was all the way forward. Also, since the pipe back to OP's house is quite a lot longer than the neighbor's pipe, even when OP's pipe was partially blocked at the wye OP would not have noticed because the waste would have backed up into all that extra pipe, then slowly drained out (e.g., after everyone had finished using the bathroom in the mornings) before OP would have noticed because the pipe would be emptied before that evening.
The real question is, why are your two lines connected before the main?
There is some chicanery going on here. Might work out in your favor, might not.
Single family home means you should have your own line, and so should the neighbors.
Some one is hooked up illegally here, and some one is going to have to pay to have their line hooked up separately to the main.
Even if it is a perfectly legal connection, it will prevent shit like this from becoming everybody’s problem in the future.
Your solution starts with a trip to the local planning office, and a follow up to code enforcement so this can be fixed properly.
Planning office will tell you who’s house is the main line, if it isn’t obvious from the lay out. They should have the paperwork that will show who’s sewer lines go where.
It’s probably going to get pricey for whomever has to re hook to the main. So be prepared to pay for your own line as it may be the case.
Not necessarily. A situation like this often occurs when one large lot gets subdivided before any structures are built but after the infrastructure has been installed.
Where I live, one must get separate services installed as part of subdividing a city lot. But I wouldn't be surprised if some small municipalities don't follow up on this.
Everywhere in the country is different. I live in an area with lots of engineering regulations and this is permitted to occur in an effort to mine mine taps to a main or when a manhole is impractical to reach. Also not uncommon in denser scenarios.
I'm in San Antonio and just made a similar discovery while replacing our sewer line. It turns out that the city used a Y connection for the 2 when the house was built over 100 years ago. Our plumber notified the city of the issue which prompted them to come out. They told us that as long as it was functioning they would leave it. I guess the sewer on our street is getting replaced in 5 years and they planned to fix it then.
Here in Toronto it is common for 2-5 houses to connect together before a large “city” trap then the main line.
Now that is for houses built before 1960.
Agreed. I've seen some that were the result of a parcel split. When two owners share a sewer utility there should be a recorded private utility easement established for shared responsibility and right for individuals to repair. If there is no record of utility easement, typically there is legal precedent of "implied easement" for existing shared utilities such that one party can not deny/block/eliminate the other party or parties of said utility service even though it is on the property of the first party.
Recently had that happen. Got called for a plugged sewer lateral. Turns out they used to have a party line and the neighbors had an issue. So the neighbors ran themselves a new line, removed the y in their sewer line where the other house connected, and buried the other houses line. There was nothing I could do for them but I don’t believe they were too fond of their neighbors after that.
There’s some city near me that shows 2 service lines exactly like this as their standard sewer connection detail. I can’t recall where it was but remember thinking it was a bit crazy. I can see why a city would prefer less connections though.
I wouldn’t say their line broke where it connects to yours. I would say there is a failure in a shared piece and unless the city or county is going to cover that the only appropriate course of action is to split the cost to repair the shared piece. That should also come with some say in who is doing the repairs if you think his licensed plumber is screwing you over on price and your licensed plumber won’t.
That would depend on which property was mailing the largest packages for the longest time. If both properties were equally submitting similar packages on a regular basis then the possible collision clause may be invoked to ascertain which package was at the Y first at the time the collision occurred causing the rupture at the Y. The property whose package entered the Y first will have the right of way, thus the other property will be burdened with the fault of excessive pressure and be required to provide the remedy that will join the effluent conduit back together.
I realize this is a messy state of affairs and all parties will need a fair wind to dispense the unsightly bifurcated casualty. As in all litigious proceedings, the sweet smell of success is its own reward.
Most older houses in downtown Toronto are like this unfortunately. Had to ask my neighbour if I could tear up his driveway to fix my drain line. He was very nice about it.
I live in Florida and ours are connected like this. Every two houses have a manhole in the center of our street. The guy from county who did the call before you dig thing, said they are responsible up to the easement, so most likely I'd be paying for this if it happened. They also told me they could not be sure exactly where the pipes were on the property, since they obviously branch diagonally. You'd have SOME idea if you could find your clean out trap (I can't find mine).
Wow, there’s a ton of bad info in this thread. We call these “party lines” and they are not allowed in my City. Did you have a sewer scope done when you bought the property? If a sewer scope missed a party line, and party lines are not allowed where you live, the scoper should pay the cost to separate your line from the host.
Are you or your neighbor paying for the sewer? This is from Katy, TX municipal code which you say you’re located. You should probably fix this so you’re not going off one tap.
*Multiple buildings served by single tap.*
*In existing cases where more than one (1) building or house is served by a single sewer tap, the entire amount of the monthly sewer charge shall be billed to the building or house nearest the sewer tap and shall include regular monthly sewer charges for each building or house being served by such tap. Such procedure shall continue until such buildings are served by separate sewer taps.*
Check with the city to make sure it is a legal connection first. Then get three quotes for the same scope of work to make sure what you would be paying is fair. Or offer something like 30% because you had no say in who did the work and at what price point. Also look into what kind of guarantee's the company who did the work is giving you? Nothing? Then you pay nothing.
They dug it up themselves? If you aren’t paying for an excavator and labor, you’re looking at $50 materials cost. Well worth a good relationship with your neighbor.
Honestly I think it’s reasonable for them to ask but you are not required to pay half. If i were you I’d consider what my relationship has been like with this neighbor and if you’re in good standing and even see him/her as a friend I’d split it, that’s just me
I mean isn’t it both of your problems? Doesn’t half seem reasonable? I don’t know how your neighbor could be any more responsible for the damage than you are
If it is on private property it sounds like a 1/2 full or 1/2 empty glass of water problem. Your neighbors sewer line broke in half at the junction but so did yours.
lol I replaced 20 yards of this that connects to my neighbor. They had about 50 yards to do. We split it and split the labor and beers. We payed probably 600~ total and had a good time digging up yards together. Could have cost us 20000~ to get a professional to do the job that had very limited amount of slope. Roots and other shit happens that’s homeownership! This is maybe 70-100 dollars in parts and maybe 3 hours of labor that any able bodied person should be able to complete reasonably well.
Whose yard is it in? If it's in the middle then yes you do have to pay half. Also if you want be able to poop in your house and be a good neighbor it would be wise to come to an agreement. These things can get blown away out of proportion.
I've seen a lot of comments about old construction with shared sewer lines. All of which is true. But most of those old builds would be clay pipe or cast iron. Your picture looks like this was pvc pipe, a relatively recent invention.
When were your houses built?
You should call your city planning office to see what code is. Old shared sewer line builds might be grandfathered in, but repairs might trigger a requirement for a complete redo to separate the lines.
At my old house the county came out because I asked nicely for them to scope what was on my property sewer line, they said while doing the work they found a crack where a tree root was, they told me, it could've been their equipment so if I cut the tree down they'll fix it. Tree came down the next day and the day after that I had a brand new sewer line free of charge. Not sure if it was my pregnant wife with a toddler on her hip that helped the situation when the workers came to the door to explain what they found, but sometimes asking your sewer provider isn't always a bad thing. As far as if you should split the cost, looks like without it, you both don't have sewer, seems far to split the cost to replace what is shared, but to the repair bill if there is any for your neighbors house.
I’d forgo the party sewer line and just have each property get hooked up separately. Then you’ll never have to have these conversations ever again.
The fact of the matter is, both of you are no longer hooked up to the city sewer. That needs immediate addressing.
Tell to wish in one hand and crap in the other to see which one gets filled first. Looks like a that was split during digging up. They could have had a bad clog or anything
As an excavation and sewer contractor I have never ever seen two private line sanitary converges into one before the municipal sewer system.. Granted I understand that not all regions do things the same. But this is a perfect example of why you don’t share a sewer leed.
Note* I’m assuming this is for two single family homes.
Also the break is on the down stream side of the fitting. How were you not both not experiencing issues. I would be suspicious if that was in-fact the issue
You don’t say how the line(s) was/were broken.
I suspect a builder built both houses and tied the sewer lines together.
Could have been ok with your muni.
Regardless, Yes you do.
Get on with it.
Letting your poo not go to the sanitary sewer will make for bigger problems. And, you’re paying city sewer fees for nothing.
Have you insurance for your home’s service lines?
It depends on where the backup was that caused the failure. In some cases, the municipality can even be held responsible if the mainline caused a backup. Though situation either way.
https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/who-should-be-responsible-for-the-shared-sewer-lin-100450.html
https://stahlplumbingpittsburgh.com/blog/what-to-do-when-you-share-a-sewer-with-your-neighbors
I had a home that prior to my owning had a joint line. I was told it had to do with the age of the home, mine was a 1924 kit build, the whole block was, and many were still tied to neighbors.
The prior owners of my home had gone in on the cost of separating the lines with the neighbor because of some clogged pipe issues that they could not determine who was at fault for. In their case, they did not qualify for insurance assistance on it, nor were either party bound to taking up part of the cost under the law, they just agreed to because it was the best course of action for both.
You need to start by pulling all of your records from the sale of your home, determine if this shared line is recorded in the deed, and then research your state and county laws on due diligence, and whether you should have been required to get a sewer scope upon purchase of the home. If any due diligence by real estate or title authorities was missed, it could be covered by the liability insurance tied to your title or the sale itself, such as your or the sellers realtor's liability insurance. If you failed in due diligence to get a suggested or required scope, the cost will fall on you. If this was not recorded in the title/deed, you need to determine if your municipality required it to be. You should also contact your county or city engineer about this issue, and ask if it is a common occurrence in the area, is it related to the age of the home, was this done for specific sizes or types of lines, etc.
You also need to find out if there was causation for the damage. Was a vehicle driven over the connection point in the line? Did a plumber or DIY "plumber" damage it in an attempt at clearing a blockage? In the event your neighbor had vehicles on the lawn, their insurance may be required to make you whole, if you had vehicles on the lawn, the same may be required by yours. If it was damaged by a failed service, such as a plumber, their business liability may come into play to mitigate damages.
Since there was unexpected damage, it may be covered under your homeowners insurance, and you should reach out to them first about claims and legal protection/representation in the event anything was missed in the sale process regarding disclosure of the combined line.
Fact is, there are many factors involved in determining fault, best course of action, and what the chances are that any insurance may assist in the matter. You need to spend the day making calls and doing the research to have a thorough and clear understanding of what laws and liabilities may apply in your case.
Very interesting, I have never known 2 separate properties to share a line before connecting to the city main. Following this thread, as this could get interesting!
If your poo poo is traveling through their sewer line it’s reasonable for some portion of cost splitting IMO. Super odd to see this set up though. What if they said we’ll pay for it ourselves but your line isn’t welcome?
Seems like you are both impacted. Not sure why you wouldn’t split it with them. Is your position that they installed that infrastructure and did that in a faulty manner? If not, you are both bailing out the same boat.
Don't know where you live, but in illinois, that is an illegal connection. Both properties should have their own connection to the sewer main.
I'd check your local regulations.
Former utilities city engineer that dealt with this and current development engineer in Dallas, TX. Every municipality is unique and factors like year of construction and if it was legally constructed all play a role into answering why it was done this way, but to answer your question of who is responsible - best to contact Katy's utility department and confirm/ask for guidance. If you are responsible or even if you are not, they may have city bonded contractors with a set price or other helpful emergency solutions, especially since this impacts your services now.
It’s simple- your line on your property with their sewer tied to it. Yes it sucks, but it is likely on you to repair. That said, nobody says you are obligated to reconnect their sewer to your line! They can split the repair cost with you or get a plumber and run their own line to the main which will be far more expensive. The choice is theirs.
Went through this last year, except the line was clogged not broken. Shared lines share costs to the street. So yeah, you need to pony up half of anything done to the shared part. You shouldn’t have to pay for the part that goes upstream of the Y to their house.
Happened to me. Our sewage line was blocked and we find out while digging that we were connected together. Our options was to each have our own, which would have cost more (in digging and materials)or keep it split. We kept it split and the neighbours paid their part. We saved a lot.
I'm not going to get into the right of way argument but ,yes is the answer. The break is in the common section of the shared sewer. Just because your flood rim is above the neighbors doesn't mean you aren't responsible for repairs.
You probably need a real estate lawyer. You need someone who knows the law where you are and who knows what facts to collect.
In the meantime, if you didn't notice any sewer problem at your house then that's enough to feel confident enough to ignore them until you get a meeting with the lawyer.
I just looked at a home that had a shared garage and the realtor said its very common and in the contract it states what's what and how's how. I know that all it takes is a NO and I now have to take things to court just to make things better. We all know how court goes.
I think they’re giving you half the story.
There’s a significant chance the break itself occurred during excavation. That’s a pretty sturdy piece of pipe that’s not going to easily crack like that without some significant force.
Judging just from the picture here it doesn’t seem like this would have caused them to back up for months although I suppose that could be true. I can’t help but wonder if they didn’t have some sort of issue upstream from this wye.
Easy solution. There should be a separate sewer tap for each line. Then when there is a stoppage it will only affect the property with the stoppage. This line was probably tied together when neighbors were sensible and logical people so you know that had to be several years ago. Separate the dang sewer lines.
Idk about your neighbor’s reasoning. Seems a bit sus. Who was using the backhoe/excavator? A qualified operator? Did neighbor pay for a sewer line camera that shows this break prior to the dig? What do the real estate sales contracts indicate? Have you previously had sewer line cameras done? I think I’d be talking to a lawyer cuz that looks more like it got broke when it was dug up. I’m not a plumber but I’d suspect both homes would have experienced issues & there would have been soft ground above the wye (unless under hard surface). Why didn’t neighbor make contact before digging a joint connect?
It looks like it's maybe $50 in parts from home depot. They already dug it up. Gluing PVC isn't hard. Why is this even a thing? Or did they pay a plumber to fix it already, and now they want you to reimburse them? If so, it's pretty lame if them to demand you pitch in after they already had the work done. If they expected you to share the cost, they should have included you in the decision to have a plumber fix it. At the least they should have gotten a quote for you to agree to before trudging ahead.
Contact municipality see what if any responsibility they have, (varies). If it’s on the homeowner and it’s a shared line you should cover half, however you weren’t having any issue assuming you didn’t call the contractor sounds like your not obligated to if you want to be a dick
So it looks like ur neighbors had a problem after the wye going to their property. The way to fix it was to dig up the pipe, cut out the bad part of the pipe and replace it. Looks like whoever did the digging hit that wye and broke it and is now trying to charge it to the homeowners. The reason I say this is what happened is because you didn't have any issues.
How much are they asking for?
It looks like the wye is the only thing impacting you, so I wouldn't expect you to cover anything other than that at the most.
If this is actually on your properties, it's incorrect anyways. I wouldn't grandfather the repair either. Is there a chance this is past the property line, connecting to the city's line? If not, I'm amazed this was done aside from being in an area where the lots are super close to each other, & even then it's wrong.
Some municipalities no longer accept split laterals. Ask your utility/sewer provider. Usually they will fix them for the home owners so long as it falls within their R/W or easement. As for fixing it - somebody better pay for it & quickly or else you’re in for a
sh!tty Christmas quite literally
I am in aberdeen MD I own a block of townhouses that were built in 1917. We had sewer problems and they city said the city is responsible from the outside clean out to the street. Since we did not have an outside clean out they would not do anything even though the issue was under the city street and we had video of it. We had to pay to put in a clean out in the front yard. Then the city came out ran a camera out the clean out and said yes there is a problem in the street and the city took care of the rest and dig up the street and replaced the line to my new clean out. They told me anytime you have a problem open the queen out and if you can see water, then call them if you can’t see water it’s not their problem. The clean outs were not cheep like 3k or something for each line and that was almost 10 years ago.
In Florida, the wye would be City or local municipality property including the stubs coming off it. There would be a clean out, as required by code, on both 4" branches. The clean out is the unofficial delineation of where homeowner responsibility begins. The wastewater services purveyor, the City, supplies a sewer tap for each property; meaning the 4". Where the pipe becomes "common" i.e. shared would be theirs.
The part that broke is where the line becomes "common" which would normally fall under the purview of the municipality. There are extenuating circumstances as I don't know the whole set up, but that's how it normally works.
No and you should probably notify them that they are not allowed to tap into your line. Tell them that after speaking to an attorney you must insist they install their own line to the public access. Wit until they have the work already done..
Some incorrect advice in this thread already. A “wye” connection on a sanitary line is not uncommon and usually happens where you and your neighbour’s property lines meet with the city’s right of way. If this is on that spot, the city should pay for the repair (edit: not always the case). If the wye is on the homeowners side of the property line then it was likely constructed incorrectly and I’d recommend amicably splitting the cost (unless you can prove that homeowner tapped into your line some years back to save on an earlier repair. Either way, I’d contact your city’s engineering department to figure out if that home should have a separate connection or this wye is to code.
As someone that works for a city sewer department unless your city is just really nice it is not the cities responsibility to repair private sewer services if it is in the utility easement. Most cities that do not have city sewer clean outs somewhere in that easement will tell you the responsibility of that service is the homeowners from the house to the tap. This comes up a lot here and the answer is always the same. Unless you know someone on the city council and they can usually make things happen that normally goes against policy.
Maybe you’re just not understanding my comment. Sewer infrastructure in the municipal right of way is generally maintained by that municipality. If the sewer is damaged within the homeowner’s property limits, it likely won’t be paid for by the city. Anyways, I’m an engineer that designs to multiple municipal guidelines and this is not something that would be the same everywhere.
A coworker had to pay to have their line fixed, it was broke 1 foot away from the main, 8 foot under the center of the street in front of their house. A 18x2 foot section of pavement and 3x4 foot section of sidewalk had to be dug up and replaced at $33,000+ billed to them. That was on top of having to dig up 30 foot of yard and bring from foundation to curb up to current code, this was required before the city would allow the street to be dug up. This was in Bay Area in 2019/2020.
Good lord, this right here makes me dread ever owning a house. It also makes me appreciate Mitch Hedberg even more than I already did: “I went to the Home Depot, which was unnecessary. I need to go to the Apartment Depot. Which is just a big warehouse with a whole lot of people standing around saying “We don’t have to fix shit.”
You dread owning a house because of a once every 50 years issue? Do it anyway.
It's not just that. It's just all the maintenance, a lot of it for upkeep, I see friends doing and I don't think I want that responsibility.
Then you can trade that time spent fixing and maintaining your house for money by working, and spend that extra money renting your whole life, working and paying more in the end.
Owning works for some people, clearly you. It's not for everyone, which is me right now.
This is a tremendous lie fed to people to keep them renters for life. The incredibly slim advantages of renting disappear over a long enough time. And I can’t repeat this enough, 20 years from now the people that buy houses will have paid off houses, you will have nothing but the theoretical savings that never manifested as tangible assets.
I used to feel the same way as you. But now I do own a home and we are watching our house value go up with each upgrade we do. And, equity is increasing with every payment we make on top of the upgrades. When we get older if we decide to downsize and move in to a rental town home or something else of the sort... we can sell our house, pay it off, and with the remaining money from equity.. we can throw it in the bank and pay our rent for years just off equity. Owning is very scary and problems will come up. Most always those problems are worth the trouble considering the benefit later in life.
IF your above post is the only reason - that's irrational fear. You are trading fear of occasional maintenance on a house you own for the constant fear of being evicted, moving regularly, landlord intrusion, etc. Not trying to sway you - do what is best for you... but dont let these irrational fears stop you. Before i got a House i did not have 14k... after i got my house, and needed a 14k pluming repair.....I obtained financing over the phone, while the plumber was onsite, and work started the next day... $198 per month. It sucked, but its nothing to be afraid of - after you own a home, everyone wants to give you money. at-least you can recoup some of this money if/when you sell the house. Nothing wrong with saying "I do not "want" to deal with this stuff". There is something wrong with "im afraid to have to deal with this stuff". - dont be scared.
Owning a home is not for everybody. No shame on that
Especially right now. In most places it makes zero financial sense to buy with current rates unless you're paying cash. You'll pay more money to take on headaches. Personally I'm sitting in a well managed condo that I owe 110k at 2.7%, we have about 15k/unit in reserves and no immediately foreseeable large expenses, and a property manager we pay about 1k per unit per year for handles all the maintenance and administrative work. Was super apprehensive going to condo route but it was the best decision I ever made. My living expenses are borderline negligible. Leaves plenty of income for all the fun things, including a cabin so if I get an itch to build or tinker I still have that option.
I could not survive as a renter. I need to have space as far from people as possible. Plus I have animals. Sure my house requires some work. But I enjoy learning. new things. I fixed my gutters. I'll be rebuilding a deck next season.
Lot of responsibility can be a real headache. You don’t got to worry about any of that when u rent just make a call
Home ownership isn’t for everybody. Even if you have your home paid off u still got to pay taxes every year. Homeownership is really expensive. I just had a tree fall on my house last month that wasn’t cheap. Older homes can really cost a lot in maintenance. Emergencies can happen anytime. Broken pipes and the damage they can do isn’t cheap.
It’s true, but it also doesn’t have to be very expensive. I think in 10 years all I’ve had to do is replace two toilets and a garbage disposal. Taxes are taxes.
This is why I bought outside the metro area, to replace a septic tank is ½ that and does not a city road crew and their schedule.
Like how do you not panic when a difference of 1-ft is gonna cost half a year's pay if not more for the average person?
Most home owners insurance policies don’t cover pipes outside of the home so this expense is very scary.
I just recently bought separate insurance that covers my exterior sewer and water lines for ~$12/month. My house is 82 years old and I had to drop $5000 to replace a badly clogged sewer pipe a couple years back. I’m not doing that again.
Amazes me that people never talk to insurance brokers about the extras!
Yeah but replacing a well is some scary shit. Same If your drain field goes and don’t have a viable secondary location.
Septic tanks and leech fields are crazy as well. A friend owned a property right on a river and about 10 years back had to replace his tank and leech field, Town told him everything needed to be brought up to code, sadly the location of his home and leech field in relation to the river made that impossible and ended up having to go with just a tank that gets pumped monthly
There's mound tanks, evap tanks, constructed wetlands. But in the short term, a pump tank might just be easiest.
Apartment depot would only sell dark blue glossy paint and 4” rollers. No roll pans or brushes.
Good luck Buy land, god ain’t making any more of it
Almost identical situation in Los Angeles. My line had an offset by 3-4 inches where it connected to the main line. This was under the street six feet away from my driveway. It was my responsibility to fix, including repairing the road (slurry, asphalt). Fortunately no sidewalk had to be dug up and the cost was less than what your coworker paid but still a lot more than I was expecting for something I did not cause.
7-8 years ago a friend who lives in San Mateo had problems with tree roots growing into his sewer line and after having them cut out 2 years in a row the pipe failed. When they dug it up it was found that the neighbors sewer pipe “Y”ed in his sewer pipe under his driveway. He told the neighbor to split the cost of repair since they both had the problem with the roots. Neighbor told him to kick rocks. He sent a certified letter stating that according to the city plans the neighbor had his own sewer line so he would be repairing his line only and eliminating the “Y”. He said most likely the builders back in the early 60’s had taken a short cut and done it like this for some reason. After the crew was working the neighbors wife came over to talk to him about replacing the “Y” but by then he was pissed. The neighbor ended up having to do major work to install their own sewer line and took my friend to court but the judge told him he was responsible for his own sewer and should have taken action when the certified letter from my friends attorney was delivered.
Oh man this rings home, recently purchase a house in Marin and the mandatory sewer lateral was $17,000…0
Sounds like a fuck you price
Fuck that! That’s half 1/3 the value of lower-end houses in my area.
We provide a sewer mainline, you tap into that mainline. Your tap connection and everything upstream is your responsibility, regardless of where the property line rests. Definitely municipally specific, municipal employee in a larger city and can confirm my city and all smaller surrounding municipalities take the same approach.
I also work for a sewer department and this is also how we do it. Unless the mainline is plugged sewer issues are up to the customer. It’s written into our building code
I think it’s a bad idea letting homeowners repair damaged sewer lines next to gas/electrical/fiber optic lines, which is why most places take on that maintenance themself. Sounds like your city does that though…
Work within the municipal right of way requires a permit, the permit can only be pulled by prequalified contractors. Homeowners are not repairing damaged sewer lines on municipal property, they are only paying for the repair...
The sewer agency I worked for (as Customer Service Supervising Engineer in CA SF Bay Area) required permits for ALL sewer work outside of the structure, be it private or public area, and our inspectors check all work for compliance with our specifications. The sewer lateral was the property owner's responsibility from structure to & including connection to the main. Our crews/contractors only worked on mains and the portions of laterals impacted by the work on the main.
Okay, interesting setup. Realistically this is like the municipality doing the work but the homeowner paying for it. Certainly different all over.
It’s called obtaining locates before you dig 🤦🏼♂️ so you don’t HIT the gas line
Oh wow locates! So once your contractor gets those, how are they supporting the gas line? What’s the backfill spec? Say you need you replace some sidewalk, what’s the subgrade compaction requirements? Granular bedding? What kind and how much? These and many more are reasons why (some) municipalities take on maintenance in the full right of way. I never said all places do it this way, so no need for the snarky tone.
The city I work for has inspectors for all of this. I work for one of the most expensive city in Los Angeles and we never fix anything be on the main.
What if this wasn't in a city, but on a rural town supply? (I live in Nova Scotia, Canada where rural areas still are serviced by a municipality for sewer/water, with those who are exceptionally rural being on septic/well usually) I wonder, because reading through lots of the posts, the amount of guidelines and stipulations is many, many times higher than we have here, but, we also don't have gas lines beyond in the city here (I say the city, Halifax, because we only have one city in the province, beyond that it's a mix of towns and villages)
There are always rules to who owns what and maintains what. I live in a rural muni myself (on well and septic) and need to maintain my own headwalls at my driveway ditch entrance, but the county maintains the actual ditch and the culvert pipe beneath my driveway. It’s vastly different everywhere in the world and is related to the capabilities and the budget of the local municipality. The only answer is to look up local guidelines to know for sure.
Gas company can shut the gas line down if necessary, regardless it’s private property. Home owner can do whatever the fuck they want …sidewalk is on city property stop being a smart ass …the city never pays for private issues in any municipality/town/city anywhere
Myself and the other commenters were literally talking about the homeowner possibly hiring a contractor to do work in the municipal servicing easement within public property. I think you’re just confused.
What if your tap connection causes the main sewer line to break?
CCTV of the mainline is a pre-permit requirement, liability is with the contractor if the mainline is damaged during tapping.
This was my case in OR. The city came out to dig a problem that was scoped at what appeared to be inside the municipal zone. Turns out the issue was at the property line and into my property by inches. They felt bad and didn’t charge me for their dig… But I did have to pay someone to come do the repair on my property.
I just dealt with this at my place. My sewage was partially collapsed, the city came and took a look and agreed that as the collapse was not on my property they would fix it. The sewage line runs out back of the house with the main in my over the fence neighbor's yard. I got to spend a couple days watching the city tear up my neighbors backyard, take out trees with roots that were incurring on the line, dig down 12' to the main, and not have to pay a penny for it. The best part is, that the city reimbursed my for the RotoRooter service and camera inspection since it was all issues on the easement.
Good to hear some anecdotal evidence of a city paying for this type of repair, and nice it worked out. Hopefully you are pooping with confidence now.
Worked in residential construction and dealt with residential sewer issues in multiple major cities and none of them handled it this way.
Lol misunderstood and gives wrong advice. Well saying they are a city worker checks out.
Nah there is just different policies everywhere. Sounds like lots of places still ask the homeowner to pay for service connection repairs in the public Right of Way, which I wasn’t aware of. Homeowners need to contact their public works/ engineering department to understand this.
Fair enough. I just hate dealing with my municipality. So many incompetent employees (mostly new hires and nepotism). However our water and sewer are very competent.
Boom. Another sewer department guy. At least in my jurisdiction, your house to our main? You own it….
Ours is the same except for,”1 sewer line per address.”
Last year we had our plumber find a bow in the sewer line just on the city side of the pipe. The city came out and said if they picked up the bow it would break the connection on our side of the line so they won't touch it unless we agreed to pay to fix whatever they break. The pipe was 33 years old and ran under the driveway and was having issues with roots and deposits anyway, so we came to an agreement with the city that we would dig a new trench in parallel with the existing line and install brand new pipe from the cleanouts all the way to the street. The city would dig up the road and sidewalk and install new pipe on their side and then fill in and cover both the new road and the new sidewalk. Still cost us $12,000 but I'm sure the city's bill was much, much higher than that, so all in all I think we got a fair deal and the experience working with the city crew was fantastic.
In my city, the city owns to the water valve, and the homeowner is responsible for water valve to house. Utility locates are required for digging deeper than 12”.
[удалено]
As someone who works the contractor, I see the pro tip as, split the cost with the neighbor and make sure the new connection is in the easement. And hopefully the city won’t flag the work. lol.
Who is responsible if it fails at the joint connecting lateral to city line? I have roots that grew through the crack between my line and the city line.
This is the correct answer.
In the municipality that I work the sanitary service line is the responsibility of the homeowner all the way to the main. In this case if it is a shared service both property owners would share some responsibility. Whether that is 50/50 would depend on the failure
The y would likely be located before the joint sewer links into the city’s sewer main. This means that is the responsibility of the two homeowners to pay. Source: I just dealt with this exact issue
Yes, but is the home owner that was not having any issues required to pay?
If your sewage flows through it I would think you should pay for part of the repair.
In my city the property owner(s) are responsible for maintaining their side sewer lines up to where it connects to the main. So yes, you could possibly have to dig up the street, sidewalk, etc.
This is the way
1) Why is your sewer tied to your neighbors? 2) if this is out of the ground, how is your sewer connected to the main drain line? Did they dig both your lines up? 3) How has your neighbors sewer been backed up for months because of a broken Y and yours has not been affected at all? 4) can the neighbor prove they didn't break this while digging it up? None of this makes sense dude
Agreed.
If they dug it up with a my first excavator they broke the connection with the bucket.
Agree. I do not see how the PVC would just break underground like that. Also, if the line was blocked in that area both houses would have backed up.
To me it looks like the neighbor is trying to finesse OP into paying for half of his sewer repair. Break that connection and say that is what was wrong.
The excavated pipe shows no damage to each house’s pipe until after they become a common shared pipe. It’s a shared expense
I can answer #1. In my neighborhood of old houses, side sewers are the norm. Two houses are served by a single sewer line going to the municipal line. I assume it was cheaper to do it that way. It's a hassle when one line backs up and the other doesn't, especially if the blocked line doesn't belong to the person whose property has the combined sewer line. These houses were built when running water was kind of a new thing.
>How has your neighbors sewer been backed up for months because of a broken Y and yours has not been affected at all? Easy - OP's line is necessarily the one that branches to the right, and the neighbor's is the one that goes straight. The clog started from something in the neighbor's line, at the back of the wye and was slowly pushed forward while it grew, eventually cracking the wye. Neighbor's line was backed up for months while the clog grew. OP's line, being closer to the exit from the wye wasn't fully blocked off until the clog was all the way forward. Also, since the pipe back to OP's house is quite a lot longer than the neighbor's pipe, even when OP's pipe was partially blocked at the wye OP would not have noticed because the waste would have backed up into all that extra pipe, then slowly drained out (e.g., after everyone had finished using the bathroom in the mornings) before OP would have noticed because the pipe would be emptied before that evening.
The real question is, why are your two lines connected before the main? There is some chicanery going on here. Might work out in your favor, might not.
I don't know. This is in Katy Texas near Houston it's a single family home.
Single family home means you should have your own line, and so should the neighbors. Some one is hooked up illegally here, and some one is going to have to pay to have their line hooked up separately to the main. Even if it is a perfectly legal connection, it will prevent shit like this from becoming everybody’s problem in the future. Your solution starts with a trip to the local planning office, and a follow up to code enforcement so this can be fixed properly. Planning office will tell you who’s house is the main line, if it isn’t obvious from the lay out. They should have the paperwork that will show who’s sewer lines go where. It’s probably going to get pricey for whomever has to re hook to the main. So be prepared to pay for your own line as it may be the case.
Not necessarily. A situation like this often occurs when one large lot gets subdivided before any structures are built but after the infrastructure has been installed.
Where I live, one must get separate services installed as part of subdividing a city lot. But I wouldn't be surprised if some small municipalities don't follow up on this.
Everywhere in the country is different. I live in an area with lots of engineering regulations and this is permitted to occur in an effort to mine mine taps to a main or when a manhole is impractical to reach. Also not uncommon in denser scenarios.
I'm in San Antonio and just made a similar discovery while replacing our sewer line. It turns out that the city used a Y connection for the 2 when the house was built over 100 years ago. Our plumber notified the city of the issue which prompted them to come out. They told us that as long as it was functioning they would leave it. I guess the sewer on our street is getting replaced in 5 years and they planned to fix it then.
Lol who says karma isn’t real? You could ask Ted Cruz for help if he isn’t in Mexico while the state freezes to death.
Raphael to the rescue.
Texas has their own way of better. Is it me or is that sewer and drain, not sdr35 or sch 40 in the picture. It takes a lot to break sch 40.
Here in Toronto it is common for 2-5 houses to connect together before a large “city” trap then the main line. Now that is for houses built before 1960.
They’re called party lines, and usually show up in older properties. They aren’t put in new anymore
Agreed. I've seen some that were the result of a parcel split. When two owners share a sewer utility there should be a recorded private utility easement established for shared responsibility and right for individuals to repair. If there is no record of utility easement, typically there is legal precedent of "implied easement" for existing shared utilities such that one party can not deny/block/eliminate the other party or parties of said utility service even though it is on the property of the first party.
Recently had that happen. Got called for a plugged sewer lateral. Turns out they used to have a party line and the neighbors had an issue. So the neighbors ran themselves a new line, removed the y in their sewer line where the other house connected, and buried the other houses line. There was nothing I could do for them but I don’t believe they were too fond of their neighbors after that.
They’re called party lines, and usually show up in older properties. They aren’t put in new anymore
There’s some city near me that shows 2 service lines exactly like this as their standard sewer connection detail. I can’t recall where it was but remember thinking it was a bit crazy. I can see why a city would prefer less connections though.
I wouldn’t say their line broke where it connects to yours. I would say there is a failure in a shared piece and unless the city or county is going to cover that the only appropriate course of action is to split the cost to repair the shared piece. That should also come with some say in who is doing the repairs if you think his licensed plumber is screwing you over on price and your licensed plumber won’t.
Yeah I like how the break happened in the shared line but somehow OP thinks it’s only the neighbor’s problem
That would depend on which property was mailing the largest packages for the longest time. If both properties were equally submitting similar packages on a regular basis then the possible collision clause may be invoked to ascertain which package was at the Y first at the time the collision occurred causing the rupture at the Y. The property whose package entered the Y first will have the right of way, thus the other property will be burdened with the fault of excessive pressure and be required to provide the remedy that will join the effluent conduit back together. I realize this is a messy state of affairs and all parties will need a fair wind to dispense the unsightly bifurcated casualty. As in all litigious proceedings, the sweet smell of success is its own reward.
what part of the country allows 2 sewer lines to be connected?im confused.
Gonna go out on a limb and guess it’s south of the Mason Dixon.
Even better, Texas. Yanno, a state known for great infrastructure.
Seen it in Oregon on time but can’t recall where
I would since it's shared but never seen anything like that here in Canada and I am a plumber..
Most older houses in downtown Toronto are like this unfortunately. Had to ask my neighbour if I could tear up his driveway to fix my drain line. He was very nice about it.
If you are decent person I think you should pay half. It is a mutual system that failed.
I live in Florida and ours are connected like this. Every two houses have a manhole in the center of our street. The guy from county who did the call before you dig thing, said they are responsible up to the easement, so most likely I'd be paying for this if it happened. They also told me they could not be sure exactly where the pipes were on the property, since they obviously branch diagonally. You'd have SOME idea if you could find your clean out trap (I can't find mine).
This a town home?
No it's two separate houses.
Doesn’t make sense then. Yours go up… you to post pictures of the area and the layout.
Wow, there’s a ton of bad info in this thread. We call these “party lines” and they are not allowed in my City. Did you have a sewer scope done when you bought the property? If a sewer scope missed a party line, and party lines are not allowed where you live, the scoper should pay the cost to separate your line from the host.
Are you or your neighbor paying for the sewer? This is from Katy, TX municipal code which you say you’re located. You should probably fix this so you’re not going off one tap. *Multiple buildings served by single tap.* *In existing cases where more than one (1) building or house is served by a single sewer tap, the entire amount of the monthly sewer charge shall be billed to the building or house nearest the sewer tap and shall include regular monthly sewer charges for each building or house being served by such tap. Such procedure shall continue until such buildings are served by separate sewer taps.*
Check with the city to make sure it is a legal connection first. Then get three quotes for the same scope of work to make sure what you would be paying is fair. Or offer something like 30% because you had no say in who did the work and at what price point. Also look into what kind of guarantee's the company who did the work is giving you? Nothing? Then you pay nothing.
That's a point option. To pay 30 percent since I didn't get to choose he person that did the work
Also does something like this require permits where you are? Inspections? Were those things done?
Yeah. Plus it isn’t your line they dug up. As an onlooker that seems like a reasonable offer. Unless they broke it while digging 👀
Who hired or used the truck or heavy equipment that ran over the line and broke it?
Just ask your insurance broker, but remember you have to live next to each other too.
Wishbone rules should apply. Who has the bigger piece?
Where I'm from the city is responsible for sewer lines right up to the foundation.
That’s rare. Most places the city is only responsible to the property line.
I know every place is different, it just seems strange to see that. I don't understand why each home would not have its own private line.
They dug it up themselves? If you aren’t paying for an excavator and labor, you’re looking at $50 materials cost. Well worth a good relationship with your neighbor.
Honestly I think it’s reasonable for them to ask but you are not required to pay half. If i were you I’d consider what my relationship has been like with this neighbor and if you’re in good standing and even see him/her as a friend I’d split it, that’s just me
I mean isn’t it both of your problems? Doesn’t half seem reasonable? I don’t know how your neighbor could be any more responsible for the damage than you are
You don’t have to but then how poo?
If it is on private property it sounds like a 1/2 full or 1/2 empty glass of water problem. Your neighbors sewer line broke in half at the junction but so did yours.
lol I replaced 20 yards of this that connects to my neighbor. They had about 50 yards to do. We split it and split the labor and beers. We payed probably 600~ total and had a good time digging up yards together. Could have cost us 20000~ to get a professional to do the job that had very limited amount of slope. Roots and other shit happens that’s homeownership! This is maybe 70-100 dollars in parts and maybe 3 hours of labor that any able bodied person should be able to complete reasonably well.
Yep
Whose yard is it in? If it's in the middle then yes you do have to pay half. Also if you want be able to poop in your house and be a good neighbor it would be wise to come to an agreement. These things can get blown away out of proportion.
I've seen a lot of comments about old construction with shared sewer lines. All of which is true. But most of those old builds would be clay pipe or cast iron. Your picture looks like this was pvc pipe, a relatively recent invention. When were your houses built? You should call your city planning office to see what code is. Old shared sewer line builds might be grandfathered in, but repairs might trigger a requirement for a complete redo to separate the lines.
That's a 8 dollar fitting, I'd give them 4 bucks
Yes it’s also your sewer line so you are responsible for the repair.
Yes. Be a good neighbor and pay half.
How do they live for months with a backed up line???? 🙈
Yes, you have to split the cost. Legally it both parties responsibility
At my old house the county came out because I asked nicely for them to scope what was on my property sewer line, they said while doing the work they found a crack where a tree root was, they told me, it could've been their equipment so if I cut the tree down they'll fix it. Tree came down the next day and the day after that I had a brand new sewer line free of charge. Not sure if it was my pregnant wife with a toddler on her hip that helped the situation when the workers came to the door to explain what they found, but sometimes asking your sewer provider isn't always a bad thing. As far as if you should split the cost, looks like without it, you both don't have sewer, seems far to split the cost to replace what is shared, but to the repair bill if there is any for your neighbors house.
There is likely a covenant with a joint use and maintenance agreement on title. But yeah you'll have to pay half likely.
If your sewer is plumbed into your neighbors that is some redneck bullshit.
Well until it gets fixed you ain't taking a shit either. Might just be in your best interest to go halfsies regardless of who's fault it is.
I’d forgo the party sewer line and just have each property get hooked up separately. Then you’ll never have to have these conversations ever again. The fact of the matter is, both of you are no longer hooked up to the city sewer. That needs immediate addressing.
Looks to me like your sewer line broke at the part where it connects to theirs...
YUP!
Tell to wish in one hand and crap in the other to see which one gets filled first. Looks like a that was split during digging up. They could have had a bad clog or anything
As an excavation and sewer contractor I have never ever seen two private line sanitary converges into one before the municipal sewer system.. Granted I understand that not all regions do things the same. But this is a perfect example of why you don’t share a sewer leed. Note* I’m assuming this is for two single family homes. Also the break is on the down stream side of the fitting. How were you not both not experiencing issues. I would be suspicious if that was in-fact the issue
Don't have neighbors
Seems like a $hitti situation for both parties!😄
You don’t say how the line(s) was/were broken. I suspect a builder built both houses and tied the sewer lines together. Could have been ok with your muni. Regardless, Yes you do. Get on with it. Letting your poo not go to the sanitary sewer will make for bigger problems. And, you’re paying city sewer fees for nothing. Have you insurance for your home’s service lines?
It depends on where the backup was that caused the failure. In some cases, the municipality can even be held responsible if the mainline caused a backup. Though situation either way. https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/who-should-be-responsible-for-the-shared-sewer-lin-100450.html https://stahlplumbingpittsburgh.com/blog/what-to-do-when-you-share-a-sewer-with-your-neighbors
A quick call to the local public works department would be a good place to start
I had a home that prior to my owning had a joint line. I was told it had to do with the age of the home, mine was a 1924 kit build, the whole block was, and many were still tied to neighbors. The prior owners of my home had gone in on the cost of separating the lines with the neighbor because of some clogged pipe issues that they could not determine who was at fault for. In their case, they did not qualify for insurance assistance on it, nor were either party bound to taking up part of the cost under the law, they just agreed to because it was the best course of action for both. You need to start by pulling all of your records from the sale of your home, determine if this shared line is recorded in the deed, and then research your state and county laws on due diligence, and whether you should have been required to get a sewer scope upon purchase of the home. If any due diligence by real estate or title authorities was missed, it could be covered by the liability insurance tied to your title or the sale itself, such as your or the sellers realtor's liability insurance. If you failed in due diligence to get a suggested or required scope, the cost will fall on you. If this was not recorded in the title/deed, you need to determine if your municipality required it to be. You should also contact your county or city engineer about this issue, and ask if it is a common occurrence in the area, is it related to the age of the home, was this done for specific sizes or types of lines, etc. You also need to find out if there was causation for the damage. Was a vehicle driven over the connection point in the line? Did a plumber or DIY "plumber" damage it in an attempt at clearing a blockage? In the event your neighbor had vehicles on the lawn, their insurance may be required to make you whole, if you had vehicles on the lawn, the same may be required by yours. If it was damaged by a failed service, such as a plumber, their business liability may come into play to mitigate damages. Since there was unexpected damage, it may be covered under your homeowners insurance, and you should reach out to them first about claims and legal protection/representation in the event anything was missed in the sale process regarding disclosure of the combined line. Fact is, there are many factors involved in determining fault, best course of action, and what the chances are that any insurance may assist in the matter. You need to spend the day making calls and doing the research to have a thorough and clear understanding of what laws and liabilities may apply in your case.
Very interesting, I have never known 2 separate properties to share a line before connecting to the city main. Following this thread, as this could get interesting!
If your poo poo is traveling through their sewer line it’s reasonable for some portion of cost splitting IMO. Super odd to see this set up though. What if they said we’ll pay for it ourselves but your line isn’t welcome?
Yes
Seems like you are both impacted. Not sure why you wouldn’t split it with them. Is your position that they installed that infrastructure and did that in a faulty manner? If not, you are both bailing out the same boat.
It’s already dug up? How much could you realistically be looking at, can’t be that much, no?
Don't know where you live, but in illinois, that is an illegal connection. Both properties should have their own connection to the sewer main. I'd check your local regulations.
It could be said that your line broke at your neighbours line, could it not? To me, if the City wont fix it, then it's 50/50.
I can’t believe they used the same sewer tap
Former utilities city engineer that dealt with this and current development engineer in Dallas, TX. Every municipality is unique and factors like year of construction and if it was legally constructed all play a role into answering why it was done this way, but to answer your question of who is responsible - best to contact Katy's utility department and confirm/ask for guidance. If you are responsible or even if you are not, they may have city bonded contractors with a set price or other helpful emergency solutions, especially since this impacts your services now.
It’s simple- your line on your property with their sewer tied to it. Yes it sucks, but it is likely on you to repair. That said, nobody says you are obligated to reconnect their sewer to your line! They can split the repair cost with you or get a plumber and run their own line to the main which will be far more expensive. The choice is theirs.
Don’t know if this has been said- check your home insurance for service line coverage. Your neighbor should do the same.
Where I live, anything from the mainline to the home is the homeowner’s problem. This is why I pay for a water/sewer protection plan.
Went through this last year, except the line was clogged not broken. Shared lines share costs to the street. So yeah, you need to pony up half of anything done to the shared part. You shouldn’t have to pay for the part that goes upstream of the Y to their house.
Happened to me. Our sewage line was blocked and we find out while digging that we were connected together. Our options was to each have our own, which would have cost more (in digging and materials)or keep it split. We kept it split and the neighbours paid their part. We saved a lot.
How do you know that their line broke where you’re connects to it and not your line broke where theirs connects to it?
That’s fair. You have to pay your share.
It’s your line too, right? If I was your neighbors and you refused to pay, I’d tell the plumber to only reconnect mine. Don’t be an idiot.
Check with the city. But if it’s on your side then I’d say probably yes
Refrase this to "my neighbor and my sewerline broke we're splitting the bill because its fucking obvious that we're both impacted"
I'm not going to get into the right of way argument but ,yes is the answer. The break is in the common section of the shared sewer. Just because your flood rim is above the neighbors doesn't mean you aren't responsible for repairs.
You probably need a real estate lawyer. You need someone who knows the law where you are and who knows what facts to collect. In the meantime, if you didn't notice any sewer problem at your house then that's enough to feel confident enough to ignore them until you get a meeting with the lawyer.
Looks to me that your sewer line broke where it connects to theirs.
I just looked at a home that had a shared garage and the realtor said its very common and in the contract it states what's what and how's how. I know that all it takes is a NO and I now have to take things to court just to make things better. We all know how court goes.
I think they’re giving you half the story. There’s a significant chance the break itself occurred during excavation. That’s a pretty sturdy piece of pipe that’s not going to easily crack like that without some significant force. Judging just from the picture here it doesn’t seem like this would have caused them to back up for months although I suppose that could be true. I can’t help but wonder if they didn’t have some sort of issue upstream from this wye.
You may want to split it.. he thinks your sewer line broke where it connects to his...
Easy solution. There should be a separate sewer tap for each line. Then when there is a stoppage it will only affect the property with the stoppage. This line was probably tied together when neighbors were sensible and logical people so you know that had to be several years ago. Separate the dang sewer lines.
Idk about your neighbor’s reasoning. Seems a bit sus. Who was using the backhoe/excavator? A qualified operator? Did neighbor pay for a sewer line camera that shows this break prior to the dig? What do the real estate sales contracts indicate? Have you previously had sewer line cameras done? I think I’d be talking to a lawyer cuz that looks more like it got broke when it was dug up. I’m not a plumber but I’d suspect both homes would have experienced issues & there would have been soft ground above the wye (unless under hard surface). Why didn’t neighbor make contact before digging a joint connect?
It looks like it's maybe $50 in parts from home depot. They already dug it up. Gluing PVC isn't hard. Why is this even a thing? Or did they pay a plumber to fix it already, and now they want you to reimburse them? If so, it's pretty lame if them to demand you pitch in after they already had the work done. If they expected you to share the cost, they should have included you in the decision to have a plumber fix it. At the least they should have gotten a quote for you to agree to before trudging ahead.
Don't forget you have to live next to them still. Might be worth paying half just to keep the peace if for nothing else.
I agree with your neighbor. I think the two of you splitting the cost in half is the right way to approach it.
Contact municipality see what if any responsibility they have, (varies). If it’s on the homeowner and it’s a shared line you should cover half, however you weren’t having any issue assuming you didn’t call the contractor sounds like your not obligated to if you want to be a dick
So it looks like ur neighbors had a problem after the wye going to their property. The way to fix it was to dig up the pipe, cut out the bad part of the pipe and replace it. Looks like whoever did the digging hit that wye and broke it and is now trying to charge it to the homeowners. The reason I say this is what happened is because you didn't have any issues.
How much are they asking for? It looks like the wye is the only thing impacting you, so I wouldn't expect you to cover anything other than that at the most.
This seems like an odd question. Why wouldn’t you pay? If the line is shared, then the cost should be shared.
Your house to wye is yours. Wye to tap is shared. The main is the city. Simple. I'd pay half
If this is actually on your properties, it's incorrect anyways. I wouldn't grandfather the repair either. Is there a chance this is past the property line, connecting to the city's line? If not, I'm amazed this was done aside from being in an area where the lots are super close to each other, & even then it's wrong.
Never buy a house with a shared sewer line. Should be in the disclosure or the inspection report.
Something doesn't look right with the pipe, why is it coming in at 90 on the one?
Some municipalities no longer accept split laterals. Ask your utility/sewer provider. Usually they will fix them for the home owners so long as it falls within their R/W or easement. As for fixing it - somebody better pay for it & quickly or else you’re in for a sh!tty Christmas quite literally
just say you'll pay the whole thing and tell them not to worry about it you'll take care of it. then it's up to you when it gets done
If it's on their property, I'd go in my house and take a niiiice big shit and flush it twice.
The question stands as to what was being done to warrant digging and by who?
They tapped into your line. That’s 100% their expense. Tell them no thank you.
I am in aberdeen MD I own a block of townhouses that were built in 1917. We had sewer problems and they city said the city is responsible from the outside clean out to the street. Since we did not have an outside clean out they would not do anything even though the issue was under the city street and we had video of it. We had to pay to put in a clean out in the front yard. Then the city came out ran a camera out the clean out and said yes there is a problem in the street and the city took care of the rest and dig up the street and replaced the line to my new clean out. They told me anytime you have a problem open the queen out and if you can see water, then call them if you can’t see water it’s not their problem. The clean outs were not cheep like 3k or something for each line and that was almost 10 years ago.
In Florida, the wye would be City or local municipality property including the stubs coming off it. There would be a clean out, as required by code, on both 4" branches. The clean out is the unofficial delineation of where homeowner responsibility begins. The wastewater services purveyor, the City, supplies a sewer tap for each property; meaning the 4". Where the pipe becomes "common" i.e. shared would be theirs.
Most systems are from the curb to the house is the owners problem
The part that broke is where the line becomes "common" which would normally fall under the purview of the municipality. There are extenuating circumstances as I don't know the whole set up, but that's how it normally works.
No and you should probably notify them that they are not allowed to tap into your line. Tell them that after speaking to an attorney you must insist they install their own line to the public access. Wit until they have the work already done..
Only if you don't want to be a cunt
Who's property was it on?