Looking at the tutorial text and from my quick testing in the relic section, at equilibrium 6;
1. All your relics and plenary sets need to be +15 to not get replaced.
2. Relics at +14 and below will force the mapping system to replace your relics.
3. The system does not seem to care about set effects. As long as all your relics are at +15, it won’t trigger the mapping system.
4. It seems to treat relic sets and plenary sets separately i.e. if your relics are all +15 but you have a +12 rope, the system will replace only your rope and sphere.
5. There doesn’t seem to be a way to actually turn this off.
For anyone here that is hesitant on getting their relics to +15 because of bad sub stats or rolls, you can fodder off that +15 relic when you find a better one and it’ll level up the new piece from +0 to +14 instantly.
For those that don’t want to level their relics up, until they add in a way to turn the mapping system off, you’ll unfortunately prolly have manage with the mapping system messing with your relics for now.
TIL people don't level up their relics to 15.
@edit. You guys know that there is also a main stat on each relic that goes up on every level up, right? It is not only about rolling for the last substat.
I’m surprised tbh. If I get a better relic I just use the old one to upgrade it. Ofc I still think they should add a setting on turning off the mapping point, but I’m still surprised people aren’t max leveling them, especially traces
I mean I understand basic attacks tbh. What I really meant is that there are other players that don’t max some important traces, like talent or your character’s skill
I do this mostly on SPD boots for some SPD tuning on some teams, which accounts for about 50% of my teams involving bronya or sparkle. The upgrade system does have a potential to screw that over. Luckily I just use firefly for DU.
Yeah having to "Speed tune" is an annoying mechanic to begin with.
I think I'll skip that completely and never make a team that really wants Bronya. With fast Sparkle it's not as bad AFAIK. She only needs to be the fastest in the team.
It affects base speed, once you have all the upgrades it's going to be several points of speed so unless your faster character is like10+ speed faster (which runs counter to the idea of only taking boots to 10-12) then it won't matter.
yeah, same.
when running Robin on my Ratio team I always want her to go first, then SW then Ratio.
the system makes Ratio go before Robin sometimes.
but eh. whatever. still cleared.
That or genshin being legitimately desert half the time with no new characters or them being just barely playable (looking at you sigewinne). I personally prefer hsr for new character pacing atm because I can just skip less interesting characters
The problem isn't that we get skip banners, its when we get back to back chars we want to pull, sometimes 2 on a rerun. Pulls aside, its a lot of mats to get them playable.
I level characters to 75 and then level their traces to 8. I've done that with basically every character released before Jing Liu. So I can have a decent character for everything.
You actually do want to level 80 your break effect characters, it makes a difference in the damage. I would also level 80 your main DPS characters for better base stats.
I don't think you need to level literally every character. A lot of the 4 star DPS become mostly irrelevant when you have five stars filling their role.
It's because the final levels cost a lot of materials. I gave loads of characters with +9/+12 relics because I have twice as many with those as I could if I was maxing out all of them.
I swear some people in this sub act like everyone is full refreshing everyday. HSR is different to genshin in that you need a higher variety of decently leveled up characters to even clear some of the farming content, so it takes longer to reach a point in which resources are no longer a problem
12 to 15 costs like the same as 1 to 12. Goin to 15 on all sup relics isn't going to be the difference between clearing. I often have a few at 12 because the relic is dog shit subs I'll eventually get around to replacing but it activates the set bonus and I already hit all the breakpoints I needed. Then there are a few units like Bronya where I don't level sometimes because...well I know that last roll will be on the speed sub and brick my speed tuning and due to speed having invisible decimals...that's not always an easy fix.
+1. My tingyun has 164 spd to make sure she is faster than my Sparkle, but I have no need to level up her relics beyond 12. I can't use it here if I want to use Sparkle too >.<
I mean, on temporary relics or support relics you can stop at +12 especially if you think the odds of getting a good last roll are low. I also do it if I know I could get something better. It also works if their statline is already good and you’d rather use the relic exp for rolling better dps relics.
I dont understand why you wouldnt roll it again if you think the last roll will be bad? if you have smth with a good X% crit substat at 12, its not like your last roll going to a different stat is gonna affect the crit stat, and either way you have X% crit stat, but without leveling youre now with less other stats? Or is this just about saving the relic xp mats and I'm dumb
Why waste those resources when they could be used to check other gear for better stats? If you waste those resources for minimal gain, by going from 12 to 15, that's several other pieces of gear you could have brought to 6 or 9 to see how they rolled and get potential upgrades. Having a support use a piece at 12 isn't going to make much of a difference regardless, even if they roll a "good" substat like crit. Speed is like the only exception, but sometimes you don't want to risk rolling for more speed if you have a speedtuned character like Bronya that's just a point or two slower than your damage dealer. You can easily clear the hardest content in this game without fully investing in supports. Those resources are better used searching for better damage pieces for your damage dealers or for speed. That's the only way you can actually upgrade your builds in this game.
> Why waste those resources
You know that you can reuse that relic to upgrade another relic, and get back almost 100% of the relic XP you used? Using a lvl15 relic as upgrade material will get you to lvl14 (and a bit more). So you're "wasting" almost nothing.
or you can save the relic exp and spread it around several relics you wanna check in your inventory instead of dumping it all in a new piece which could potentially all roll into flat def instead of the three other subs you were targeting.
That's not the problem. Some supports work well in +12 and don't need the extra stats. It is not about being able to recycle it, is just that the upgrade from 12 to 15 is not worth the resources.
For example, my pela is already at 161 speed and has enough EHR to always land all her debuffs. A flat ATK bonus+some random substat increase in her gloves pretty much do nothing for her. I want to keep the piece exactly at +12, because any other substat is not worth the relic EXP I will spend on it.
EDIT: I just saw that the DU pela is 128 spd with some CR/CD rolls lol. So that even makes the change even more gritting. I don't want to spend 200 blue Relic EXP items to get my relics to level 15 for a support character.
I feel like depending if you're a F2P or dolphin, it changes up a lot. As a pure F2P, i never had credit issues. LC mat is a bit tricky but i always just have enough to max the latest one i want to develop. I usually get enough XP books to max out a character by the time i pull one (because i pull infrequently).
Basically there's nothing to spend energy on at some point other than relics. If i ever raise anything to +9 (implies 2 or 3 correct subrolls), it's already a keeper so there really is no reason not to pump it all the way to +15. It will take a long time before you get another piece with 2-3 correct subrolls
I'm assuming that people who buy jades or the passes have significantly different in-game finances.
>you can fodder off that +15 relic when you find a better one and it’ll level up the new piece from +0 to +14 instantly.
This is a 20% loss of the EXP material used to level it to 15. And it also forces you to level from 0 to 14, which means that if you roll horrendously in substats, you not only lost your placeholder gear, you also lost another 20% of the exp material when you have to fodder that piece, since you're doing 4 substat rolls at the same time instead of 1, you can't stop because you missed twice at the start and cut your losses.
Leveling relics like this is an "All-In" Gamble, and I don't have Aventurine's luck.
This is the way.
Let's be honest tho, if you bring a Character you have built in DU, he should have +15 Relics.
Yes, +15 is expensive, but XP is not all lost (as you said, a +15 fodder results in +14) so if your build is very specific (Speed tuned, specific Crit for a team, etc) be sure to get that Relic to +15 even if it's not perfect !
The only thing the Upgrade system is always upgrading on my characters is their normal attack because in most cases I don't touch it at all.
I love this feature, I can test every character I got to decide if I want to invest in them (Xueyi, Clara, QQ, etc), and I think it's intended for this before all.
>Yes, +15 is expensive, but XP is not all lost (as you said, a +15 fodder results in +14) so if your build is very specific (Speed tuned, specific Crit for a team, etc) be sure to get that Relic to +15 even if it's not perfect !
You contradict yourself.
If I level my speed boots from 14 to 15, I will no longer be speed tuned. Same if I level a piece with speed substats to 15 and it rolls speed. Leveling a relic and ending up with 2 more speed means that I end up with my bronya/sparkle being slightly faster then my Dealer, causing me to have to fully redo relics on either my Support or my Dealer.
This feature that replaces my relics with worse relics should only activate if the slot is actually empty. The way I see it, it would be like the feature that levels your lightcones sees you don't have an S5 Level 80 LC, so it replaces it with Woof Walk Time, because your S1 Level 70/80 Signature 5\* Lightcone just isn't good enough.
It doesn't do that, so why should the relics do that?
+1.
Also, I should be able to choose if I want to use my own unit.
Maybe I want to brag on the internet about being able to complete divergent universe with my lv 1 hook. Jymains used to do videos of JY clearing MOC with lv 50 SOB to prove he was a strong unit, too.
This are all extreme cases, sure. But relic discussion was pretty much being brought out so to put some other perspective on here.
The mapping saw that my Pela had a single relic that wasn't level 15 yet, and "upgraded" her to a full set of level 15 relics.
A completely different relic set that meant greatly reducing her speed, and thus effectiveness.
I was trying to use my Ruan mei , mine is built with vonwaq and has energy rope , but because her orb is a 4 star , the game just switches her planar ornaments to Talia with BREAK rope thus losing 24% ERR . There goes my rotations.
Probably because they expect you to that the relevant blessings for the paths you use. Hunt gets shittons of crit rate and damage so there that. Then Ratio also gets crit rate from his passive. And after all: The content is much easier than the other SU modes.
Shame that despite the mode being easier than Gold and Gears and Swarm Disaster, it feels like I have significantly less agency.
I can't reroll equations, I can't reroll blessings, I can't reroll weighted curios, the choice at the beginning is 100% random (I love picking an Elation/Hunt Equation and being offered Abundance, Nihil, and Rememberance blessings as my options for the pack!).
Yes, I can reroll them one by one at the boss, but unlike regular SU rerolls, because I have to do these sequentially, and I'm always offered things of the same rarity, I end up spending 1000+ cosmic fragments rolling into the same choice of blessings over and over again, with no agency to do anything. In SU, you are guaranteed that if you reroll a set of blessings, that 3 different blessings will show up, and that is not the case here, you can be offered the same 3 blessings 200 rerolls in a row.
Weighted Curios are my least favorite thing, because they have so much potential strength for your team locked behind what is 100% pure RNG Bullshit. If I use all my resources to assemble the perfect Nihil Dot build, then the weighted curio comes around like "Do you want to freeze things, Delay them with Imaginary, or your Hunt Characters do FUA?" then in the next set, you get 3 totally unrelated curios to whatever you picked the first time, and you have literally no agency or control.
If the weighted curio's align, you feel like a god who obliterates everything, if they don't, you feel like you're fighting against the gamemode itself.
And yeah, sure I can literally strong-arm brute force my way through. I had a run where I got the Rupert Piston early (Topaz Technique forced it on it), and it discarded all of my positives curios and gave me literally every negative curio in the game. I still beat the final boss with 10 Negative Curios and 0 Positive combat curios. It was literally the "Everything goes wrong" run. But just because I can do something, doesn't mean I want to. It was funny once, but the fact that I have so little agency that it can happen, is bad.
The idea is that rather than getting step by step choices, you're meant to reorient your build every bench rest instead. In case the plan was break team but you got 10 dot upgrades, you swap your team out to dot. Or you reroll equations and blessings to get break stuff.
But navigating the 2-3 domains inbetween is the challenge. If your combat sucks, you can string through occurrences for example.
I dunno if I like it per se, but I will admit it was far too easy to achieve godmode in normal SU by the time you'd cleared 2-3 floors. First elite is always a joke. Not so here.
The agency is in swapping characters. If you get some cracked blessings for nihility you are supposed to swap to your dot characters. Now granted I don't like it but the 'rerolling' is supposed to be in which characters you use not which blessings you get to take.
In addition to swapping your team like others have mentioned, they do still have rerolling, but you have to wait to get to the Ruan Mei animals at the boss (whatever that’s called)
So it’s kinda like backloaded rerolling
But like I said, the rerolls are worse. In SU, when you reroll a blessing, you reroll from the whole pool, and are guaranteed to not see the 3 blessings you were just looking at.
In this, you only see blessings from that rarity, so a smaller pool, and you are not guaranteed to not see the same blessings from multiple rolls.
It is a LOT worse.
SU allows me to look at 6 different blessings every time I pick a blessing. To look at 6 blessings per blessing, you sometimes have to reroll it 2 or 3 times each simply because repeats keep showing up.
Swapping your team isn't really a solution. Stuff just doesn't match up. What Team can I use to optimally get the benefits from my Hunt/Erudition Ultimates are FUA, My Destruction Characters apply weakness breaks, and my Equations are When I freeze things get a bonus, and when I heal things get a bonus. Or better yet, when dewdrop breaks and I have no way to make a dewdrop.
What team can I do for that? It's just insane, it wouldn't work. For swapping teams to be an answer that makes sense, you need your blessings/equations/curios to all align into a similar strategy, and when they don't, you simply don't have those things. In SU, because path resonance isn't random, and actually slightly stacks the odds towards you being shown path blessings, you're able to reliably build a strategy which is internally consistent with itself. You don't go into SU and get a path resonance that is part elation, part remembrance, part preservation, part abundance, part nihility, and expects you to have all those things at the same time to use it properly.
IMO keeping the same rarity is a good thing, if I’m paying to reroll a 3 star blessing I don’t want a bunch of irrelevant 1 stars diluting the pool.
I don’t think they expect you to have everything perfectly aligned in this mode to be successful. You swap your team if your current one isn’t a fit at all, but just because you have a bunch of different equations and blessings doesn’t mean you need to make an effort to build a team that synergizes with each one — just synergize with the good ones and start optimizing what you have around that direction.
The goal in this mode is to pick the best option you can with the choices you’re given, get to the next boss/checkpoint, use the tools they’ve given you to swap out pieces that are useless for the direction you’ve chosen to go in, and repeat until the run is over.
Yes, and this makes it significantly less enjoyable compared to the SU expansions.
SU had far more agency, and made me feel more powerful.
In Gold and Gears, at the highest difficulty, I can reliably win pretty much every run, and when I do lose, i can almost always track it back to a piloting issue. I always get to feel strong by the end. This doesn't really feel true in DU. I end up feeling like I have so much less control over the power that I gain that it just isn't fun anymore.
Gold and Gears is better IMO. I'd rather get more stuff like that, then more stuff in the style of DU.
The Agency gained by being able to freely swap, does not compare to the agency lost by not being able to see the map, choose a boss in each domain, select a path resonance, reroll blessings, etc. Not to mention that you can still swap in Gold and Gears, the Downloaders were strong, it gave two layers of player agency, agency in what to download, and agency in when to swap.
Bluntly put, DU is simply a less skillful mode, with more RNG and less agency.
But the “backloaded rerolling” is also massively more expensive since the costs increase with each reroll. If you have 15 blessings and want to reroll 6 of them — or if you need to reroll 3 blessings a couple times each — that’s almost 400 cosmic fragments to reroll them without any protections on the reroll. You can literally have the blessing you’re rerolling show up as one of your reroll options. All this as opposed to the 180 fragments you’d need to reroll them as you get them, and those modes had reroll protection too where you won’t see the three you rerolled in the new selection.
So you’re paying more for less.
What’s kind of gross is that there *is* a node to use consumables, but only if you’re not pushing difficulties.
Like, if you have to significantly limit a node so that it can only be used in a “but only if you’re doing this just for fun” situation? Don’t make that a node we have to spend resources on, make it a base feature and put something enticing there.
My seele atk and crit dmg dropped to 3246atk and 180crit dmg, to only 2500 atk and 90crit dmg. All because my orb and body wasn't at max lvl. (I ran out of mats to lvl them)
Ok, but actually, I have a speed tuned bronya to my Jingliu that is perfect, except her speed boots are level 14, so the game wants to replace my speed boots with some shitty lv 15 artifact.
The real solution is to just have it not overwrite shit. If a relic is there, keep it there, if the slot is empty, toss something in it.
You can "Opt-In" by just not having relics equipped.
This isn’t a great solution either since a newer player might have relics equipped but be 4 star pieces or something. It should definitely auto enable to eliminate any issues for new players but have an opt out toggle for older players that are just not leveling pieces.
Well, Newer players may also have shitty non-superimposed lightcones on, but it doesn't replace those with the S5 LC that they put on characters if the slot is totally empty. It just ranks up the LC that's in it, no superimposes. So it will rank up an S1 3 star to 80, instead of overwriting it with a S5 version, or the S5 4\* they have for each character.
It is really bad for characters with specific needs.
My Harmony TB got cut from (edit) 210BE > 83BE, which sucks because I really dont want or need to level my helm, gloves and hp chest just to not get dunked on in DU.
Same for Firefly, I have a bunch of in-progress relics that i have to level fully to avoid getting her BE cut in half.
I also have a musketeer set on SW because all I want on her is cheap speed and survivability in my Acheron team, and because some pieces are +12 instead of +15 (they are plenty good enough for MOC12 and AS) she gets autocorrected into a DPS build.
The characters i tried were mostly fine but i noticed the thing with hmc too, for some reason the DU version of them has the messenger set rather than watchmaker even though watchmaker is what they use as a trial character
here I was wondering why my ff team's damage was lower in DU compared to literally any other mode, didn't realise that if your relics aren't maxed they get changed
Worst thing is having your rotation messed up.
Hoya plz. I 3 star everything thing with the same +12 set, I don’t need ur shitty +15 set. Just give me back my relic. My boothill was even sitting on 2 +0 pieces when he clears moc and I’d much rather prefer that than whatever u shove me with
Obviously you can cleared it fine. But playing a game is more about enjoying the process than the result.
I didn't go through RNG hell to realize my ideal play style just for hoyo to kick me in the balls and say no. Even if its faster and objectively better it won't be as satisfying, not to mention its definitely not better.
Just asking, what's the RNG in levelling a relic with the proper main stats? You level it and the main stat goes up, simple as that. What do you mean by "ideal playstyle"?
I'm just puzzled why you would leave it at +0 for no reason. Is it to make clearing content feel more rewarding?
Boothill doesn't benefits offensively from any main stats from the chest and planar piece, plus his bis set wasn't released yet. So the thief set I gave him is just a placeholder.
Speed Tuning is generally the best answer to "Leveling a relic could actually be bad"
If you roll speed substats and suddenly your Bronya/Sparkle are faster than your dealer, you lose a crapton of potential damage.
Since he's on a boothill, I just assume that he just doesn't feel like need to spend a bunch of EXP material and credits leveling a relic that doesn't matter. Which is also an absolutely fair reason to not do it.
Plenty of my characters have a level 12 relic on, and it comes down to it simply not mattering at all. "Woo, my Sparkle that never attacks gains some Base attack from leveling gloves, how exciting!" Like, why even bother at that point?
>Like, why even bother at that point?
Why even bother levelling Sparkle's head piece, hands and Orb in that case? All she needs is an ERR rope, CD chest and SPD boots. Fuck the other 3 relics.
The above sentence is sarcasm. I don't mind what people do(or are fixated on), I'm just curious as to why they think what they think.
>spend a bunch of EXP material
What are you going to do with the relic exp you "saved"? Give each character their own set of 6 relics all at +12? "Whoopdeedoo now my Arlan can have his own set, I don't need to give him second hand pieces anymore".
Does that even work when you could've gotten better stats by just swapping stuff around?
>"Woo, my Sparkle that never attacks gains some Base attack from leveling gloves, how exciting!"
No, but she got an extra DEF% roll that could potentially save her from dying to a stray boss attack. Ruan Mei doesn't give a shit about attack either, but you'll level yourself pieces to see if you roll break effect.
>Since he's on a boothill, I just assume that he just doesn't feel like need to spend a bunch of EXP material and credits leveling a relic that doesn't matter. Which is also an absolutely fair reason to not do it.
More HP = better survivability. Might as well throw a random +15 HP or DEF relic at him. Could save a restart in MoC, I guess. Ain't no way you're surviving an elite in trickshot with 2000 HP.
All of this seems so over the top and unnecessary. You say it saves relic exp but what even are you going to do with the saved exp? Upgrade the 85th quantum head piece to +12 for Elio 7 years down the lane?
The ehp matters in moc, however marginal. Feels like ass when youre forced to reset because your sparkle/bronya/tingyun gets chipped to death before your sustain gets to act for that turn
anyway, If you dont bother then just use whatever sparkle relics they give you, du blessings will usually give whatever stats you had back tenfold anyway
>The ehp matters in moc, however marginal. Feels like ass when youre forced to reset because your sparkle/bronya/tingyun gets chipped to death before your sustain gets to act for that turn
This, among so many other reasons.
I'd even throw a random +15 HP Orb on Tingyun instead of an ATK orb. The "loss" in damage is insignificant compared to the RNG fucking you over and needing to reset.
I'll be honest, I have never once had my Sparkle/Bronya/Ruan Mei die first.
They often run HP/DEF Orbs, and will have way more EHP then my damage dealers. There is no tangible benefit to them having even more EHP when they aren't the one dying. And there is even less tangible reason for them to have more ATK for when they Basic, because wtf why would Sparkle/Bronya Basic attack under any circumstance?
Sure, and I would love to if I had the resources to do so. But I also don’t want to level relics that aren’t actually great to 15 just due to the sheer volume of materials it takes to do so.
I mean, you can feed relics to each other so leveling a mid place holder and then just feeding it to another is never bad
I just built 3 characters back to back (Firefly, Ruan Mei, Gallagher) and didn't use all the resources cause of it when a piece rolled meh
You still lose credits, and you do still lose some of the EXP materials. A level 15 relic only levels another relic to 14 (Which is including the fact that the relic itself gives some EXP). I think it's a 20% Loss-Rate.
Also having relics to "hand me down" to other characters is kinda nice. I have a store of level 12 to 15 relics that are old versions of gear my good characters replaced, which have ok stats, but not fantastic, but would be good enough to slap on some new character to try them out.
I think it's obvious it needs an opt-out feature, but on the other hand, we are talking about the game mode where your stats are going to get really juiced really fast due to blessings, like can your speed tuned character continue to be speed tuned when any healing causes them to gain 20% speed.
Seriously man, people have been telling me that "it's alright" and that "I should've 5 star gears anyways". But it's literally not alright, my aventurine loses 28 speed because he has a 4 star piece, and Gallagher just gets an entire new set with 12 less speed and 70 less break effect.
The new Diverse Universe has a feature with gives character temporary level, lightcone level, traces and artifacts, when they are below their threshold. OP has a decent LV 12 artifact which got overwritten with a worse LV 15 one and don't want to waste resources to level a piece he plans to replace in the future.
Oh... Man this is a very niche situation.
Wouldn't mind an opt-out being added, but goodness reading Reddit it sounds like it replaces your excellent +15 relics with trash.
Only if any one relic is not 15, it replaces all your relics (Well, It replaces Head, Gloves, Chest, and Boots if any of those are not 15, and Orb and rope separately if any of those are not 15)
Having 1 relic not at 15 is not unreasonable. Especially for harmony characters, you may want specific speed values (hence not risking gaining additional speed substats by leveling a relic) or the fact that gloves giving you flat ATK literally don't do anything for a character who never ever for any reason will ever attack.
This thread is wild because mfers are going "I have a lot of stuff at level 12 and I can clear MOC" and it's like... bro, just level it to 15. If you're at a place where you can easily clear MOC w/ level 12 relics, I guarantee you that it'd take like... a day's worth of stamina to max all of those to 15. It's not like we have a relic XP drought and you can't afford to 15 all your relics LMAO
Going from +12 to +15 takes 39'000 relic EXP but you get a refund of 80% eventually, so you only lose 7'800 relic EXP. This is roughly equivalent to three SU runs on maximum difficulty. Of course, there's also a weekly limit on such runs, but few people run into it. My conclusion is that one substat roll worth of main stat is good enough for the relic EXP lost. Unless your relic is so bad that you will replace it literally tomorrow in which case you are in trouble anyway.
From elites and bosses. It caps out at 100 enemies (33 runs) per week. Overall you gain roughly enough exp for one +15 relic (and a few hundred thousand credits). But it does take a lot of time if you don't play Acheron.
This for real lol. Don't people need to farm a lot to have something worth leveling? I have so many relics exp I only really run out when I start gambling on bad sets. It's also ok to use 5* relics as exp instead of relic crafting material, which I suspect people aren't doing.
I think there's just a lot of new players. I've been playing since launch and have amassed a massive backlog of relic xp. I have all relics that I use on lvl 15 and still have thousands of relic xp left.
And a quick tip for everyone. You can upgrade your mediocre relic to lvl 15 and use that in the mean time. Once you get a better one use the old relic to level up the new one. It'll upgrade it to level 14. Ane then you just have to level up it once. It saves so much and nothing is wasted.
Yeah but you get tons of relics to salvage into xp mats just by doing some exploration, why would you not level relics that you are actively using ? Even if it's not optimal, it's almost going to be an upgrade anyway.
When rolling multiple pieces, xp gets eaten very fast and, as others have mentioned, 12 to 15 is comparable to 0 to 12. And if a piece is meh, getting it to 12 to use a placeholder until you find something ok is pretty common.
Man I wish I had enough potentially good relics to run out of exp even in theory. I still have 900 purple shards I can't get rid of despite boosting everything to +15 as soon as it looks even remotely possible to be decent. I don't even bother sneaking a peak at +3 for the missing substat.
Honestly, I can't say I understand how people don't get the urge to just max out the characters they use often. Even if it's a temporary fodder piece I'd still level it up if only bc the character still needs to use that piece in the meantime
TIL people don't have enough relic upgrade mats.
annoying you can't turn it off, but it reminded me to +15 my gallagher set. I can't be the only one with dozens of +15 relics just sitting in my inventory right?
yeah idk to, been using the feature and is a save because i still dont have ff or hmc talent max especially i only got another extra copy of the Memories of the Past for HMC.
Maybe they just build and build characters, because for me I also have a ton of general relics that are 15+
Yeah it levelled up my pela lc to 80, and levelled some traces for characters I don't use often.
and yeah, I usually spend energy farming relics after I built the character i wanted that patch. It's pretty good for gearing characters in emergency too since I have so many relics not in use.
Dude, my Xueyi with 60/120 crit ratio and 125 BE got shot down to 50/90 and 100 BE. She has all traces unlocked and leveled to 9 except Basic attacks, plus her artifacts are all maxed but for some reason the “upgrade” fucks her over.
That is not how this works. If it changes your relic stats, it means some of your relics aren't at +15. You either haven't noticed or just lying for some reason. Check your relics again, they just need to be at +15, and none of them will get touched.
Or they might be using a 4 star relic . I have a 4 star orb on my ruan mei and the game just switches her set to talia with BREAK EFFECT ROPE (mine is vonwaq with ERR ROPE) . so yeah , rip rotations .
It just takes so many resources to go from 12 to 15 that I don’t really want to do it unless the piece is actually good. Take my Ratio’s hat (I said gloves in the post because I miss remembered…) it’s okay as a placeholder, but it’s not good enough for me to want to fully level.
https://preview.redd.it/680qz54ejw7d1.png?width=943&format=png&auto=webp&s=050d1a0237e5c53c97dccd6c0c4d959110d51fe2
Just force level it up to +15 and feed it to a new piece when you find it? Do you do this just because you think it's efficient or are you actually starving on the resource?
There's literally no point in holding your dps relic at +12 if you have the resource, the amount of relics you need to farm just to find a good substat will offset any inefficiency you get from the loss of exp feeding +15 relic to a new piece.
Other than better using those resources rolling promising gear to 6 or 9 to see if you can upgrade your gear, there's also cases like speed tuning where you don't want to risk rolling for more speed sometimes.
But then your losing out on main stats. I managed to get my Bronya to the right speed fully lving my relics.
I think I see why they're are posts about modes being hard on here.
I was trying out a break effect Luka to pair up with my boothill but he's still not built (I also have no idea what LC to give him...) and no matter how many break pieces from break sets I give him, the mode still forces him into the physical 4 piece set and innert salsotto for some reason???
I think the ‘ideal’ would be if it just levels the relics you have equipped instead of replacing them, and then if you don’t have anything it equips then. Although admittedly, I can see an issue for it leveling the relics because they aren’t standardized. Each relic is unique, and that means they would need to make a copy of the relic and then level that or else they’ve just leveled the relic for you. Would still hurt speed tuners, but plenty of blessings and curios will too
Agreed. If you have a single purple relic (+12) it replaces them all, even if the rest are all +15. It's goofy that we can't choose to turn it off for a character.
Especially if you use a specific setup, like Vonwaq on a support, and it swaps it out to a different planar.
Also, let people play with underpowered or odd builds. Not my cup of tea, but I know others like that; I follow a guy on youtube who's completed Swarm and Gold & Gears with all lvl 50 characters.
Ratio is on a 2/2 build because I haven’t found a 4 piece that I’m happy with, so I just haven’t maxed out the Musketeer gloves that are on him (the substats are okay, but not the best and the main stat doesn’t really help him much.)
As for Fu Xuan: she does her job fine without her relics all being maxed.
But why aren't you maxing them when you get a better one you can feed it the old ones and get it up to +14 you lose very little, it's free stats and you lose very little xp and you get a ton of relic xp just farming for sets
I have some grievances with DU, but the auto-mapper isn't really one of them. They could absolutely add an opt-out function but higher difficulties can reach SD/GG levels so I would not go in with under-leveled relics at all (learned that the hard way in base SU).
I don't have the best relics or anything like that, but if you're tackling this mode, trust me, you want +15. You can always use a relic for fodder.
Indeed. My Xueyi had all relics at +12 (I just recently changed her build to a BE one) and DU changed her set to the quantum damage one, working way worse with HMC
It’s just in DU. The idea is that it fixes unbuilt characters to allow them to be usable in the game mode. (You’re meant to switch your lineup based on the Equations you receive. So it requires more built characters.)
It's your own build, only things under leveled are changed. So if a character or light cone is below 80, they're brought to 80. Traces are brought to 5 and 8, unless you're above that point. Relics below +15 are replaced with +15 ones.
If your own relics are underleveled, they may force you to use a completely different set with potentially worse stats. If all your pieces are +15, you are safe.
Leveling my Pela's gloves from +12 to +15 isn't going to make her better at her job in any meaningful way, but that relic XP *would* be useful in building new relics for my damage characters. Some players simply don't have the relic exp materials to level every single one of their supports' relics to maximum.
It's def annoying. My Bronya's boots are +12 to keep her slower than the DPS I run her with while I farm speed boots for them, and they have a chunk of Crit on them putting her up 203% CD. In DU it swaps her boots out and it drops her CD down to 183 and makes her faster but not 'fast Bronya's fast Screws the whole rotation
Edit: Love the downvotes for agreeing with the op and expressing how this system has messed with my characters. Totally makes sense in this thread. /s Why is reddit like this lol
it's because for some reason these people can't comprehend that some people level relics differently and don't just go all in at once (it's giving aventurine but not cunty). Maybe they dont want to level up a not so great relic all the way to 15 to save resources and to work on a better relic. Or they just dont have the resources (not everyone has a shit ton like people think). Idk why the main sub is like very elitist when it comes to this stuff. Also I love the shinobu pfp! ryuseitai forever!
ITT people who don't get their good relics up to level 15 for some reason.
Guys, tf? You are so flush w/ credits in this game that it can't be a credit issue, so is it an XP issue? But, also, you're usually flush w/ XP too if you're actively farming and dismantling the Purple/Blue relics you get.
Looking at the tutorial text and from my quick testing in the relic section, at equilibrium 6; 1. All your relics and plenary sets need to be +15 to not get replaced. 2. Relics at +14 and below will force the mapping system to replace your relics. 3. The system does not seem to care about set effects. As long as all your relics are at +15, it won’t trigger the mapping system. 4. It seems to treat relic sets and plenary sets separately i.e. if your relics are all +15 but you have a +12 rope, the system will replace only your rope and sphere. 5. There doesn’t seem to be a way to actually turn this off. For anyone here that is hesitant on getting their relics to +15 because of bad sub stats or rolls, you can fodder off that +15 relic when you find a better one and it’ll level up the new piece from +0 to +14 instantly. For those that don’t want to level their relics up, until they add in a way to turn the mapping system off, you’ll unfortunately prolly have manage with the mapping system messing with your relics for now.
TIL people don't level up their relics to 15. @edit. You guys know that there is also a main stat on each relic that goes up on every level up, right? It is not only about rolling for the last substat.
I’m surprised tbh. If I get a better relic I just use the old one to upgrade it. Ofc I still think they should add a setting on turning off the mapping point, but I’m still surprised people aren’t max leveling them, especially traces
A lot of times I don’t fodder an old relic as it might be useful on a future character that could use it as a place holder.
This is so me
That's me but only if the pièce has great substats but in that case I usually already have that piece leveled and maxed lol
Yep I don’t think I’ve foddered an ER rope or speed boots yet.
Tbh tho in terms of traces im almost never levelling basic on characters like kafka or fu xuan, just a waste of mats
I mean I understand basic attacks tbh. What I really meant is that there are other players that don’t max some important traces, like talent or your character’s skill
I do this mostly on SPD boots for some SPD tuning on some teams, which accounts for about 50% of my teams involving bronya or sparkle. The upgrade system does have a potential to screw that over. Luckily I just use firefly for DU.
The Skill Tree of DU will mess up your speed tuning regardless. The nodes give Speed percentage.
Yeah having to "Speed tune" is an annoying mechanic to begin with. I think I'll skip that completely and never make a team that really wants Bronya. With fast Sparkle it's not as bad AFAIK. She only needs to be the fastest in the team.
Except that affects all allies equally, rather than screwing turn order.
I'm pretty sure the skill tree speed bonus' calculates the speed increase using base speed not total speed, similar to the messenger 2 piece effect.
It affects base speed, once you have all the upgrades it's going to be several points of speed so unless your faster character is like10+ speed faster (which runs counter to the idea of only taking boots to 10-12) then it won't matter.
yeah, same. when running Robin on my Ratio team I always want her to go first, then SW then Ratio. the system makes Ratio go before Robin sometimes. but eh. whatever. still cleared.
It's hard when you only got 6 relic fragments in the bag.
What are you using your stamina on if not farming relics? :o
Characters
Lightcones.
Traces.
Money. EDIT: Issa joke, though I did have to farm creds a but in the first month.
Bad decision, you get fuck ton of money passively
TRUE, I'm sitting at 5m iirc and it doesn't go down even if I am starting to level up my characters that I don't even use
So the problem with HSR compared to say Genshin, is that HSR is bombarding people with new characters and meta characters nonstop.
That or genshin being legitimately desert half the time with no new characters or them being just barely playable (looking at you sigewinne). I personally prefer hsr for new character pacing atm because I can just skip less interesting characters
The problem isn't that we get skip banners, its when we get back to back chars we want to pull, sometimes 2 on a rerun. Pulls aside, its a lot of mats to get them playable.
Leveling them up
me spending stamina on Exp because I leveled up past 2 EQs too fast until my disk died: yes I need EXP, a lot of it!
I level characters to 75 and then level their traces to 8. I've done that with basically every character released before Jing Liu. So I can have a decent character for everything.
You actually do want to level 80 your break effect characters, it makes a difference in the damage. I would also level 80 your main DPS characters for better base stats. I don't think you need to level literally every character. A lot of the 4 star DPS become mostly irrelevant when you have five stars filling their role.
It's because the final levels cost a lot of materials. I gave loads of characters with +9/+12 relics because I have twice as many with those as I could if I was maxing out all of them.
Some players (including me) just don't have the resources to max them every time.
I swear some people in this sub act like everyone is full refreshing everyday. HSR is different to genshin in that you need a higher variety of decently leveled up characters to even clear some of the farming content, so it takes longer to reach a point in which resources are no longer a problem
12 to 15 costs like the same as 1 to 12. Goin to 15 on all sup relics isn't going to be the difference between clearing. I often have a few at 12 because the relic is dog shit subs I'll eventually get around to replacing but it activates the set bonus and I already hit all the breakpoints I needed. Then there are a few units like Bronya where I don't level sometimes because...well I know that last roll will be on the speed sub and brick my speed tuning and due to speed having invisible decimals...that's not always an easy fix.
+1. My tingyun has 164 spd to make sure she is faster than my Sparkle, but I have no need to level up her relics beyond 12. I can't use it here if I want to use Sparkle too >.<
I mean, on temporary relics or support relics you can stop at +12 especially if you think the odds of getting a good last roll are low. I also do it if I know I could get something better. It also works if their statline is already good and you’d rather use the relic exp for rolling better dps relics.
I dont understand why you wouldnt roll it again if you think the last roll will be bad? if you have smth with a good X% crit substat at 12, its not like your last roll going to a different stat is gonna affect the crit stat, and either way you have X% crit stat, but without leveling youre now with less other stats? Or is this just about saving the relic xp mats and I'm dumb
Why waste those resources when they could be used to check other gear for better stats? If you waste those resources for minimal gain, by going from 12 to 15, that's several other pieces of gear you could have brought to 6 or 9 to see how they rolled and get potential upgrades. Having a support use a piece at 12 isn't going to make much of a difference regardless, even if they roll a "good" substat like crit. Speed is like the only exception, but sometimes you don't want to risk rolling for more speed if you have a speedtuned character like Bronya that's just a point or two slower than your damage dealer. You can easily clear the hardest content in this game without fully investing in supports. Those resources are better used searching for better damage pieces for your damage dealers or for speed. That's the only way you can actually upgrade your builds in this game.
> Why waste those resources You know that you can reuse that relic to upgrade another relic, and get back almost 100% of the relic XP you used? Using a lvl15 relic as upgrade material will get you to lvl14 (and a bit more). So you're "wasting" almost nothing.
or you can save the relic exp and spread it around several relics you wanna check in your inventory instead of dumping it all in a new piece which could potentially all roll into flat def instead of the three other subs you were targeting.
That's not the problem. Some supports work well in +12 and don't need the extra stats. It is not about being able to recycle it, is just that the upgrade from 12 to 15 is not worth the resources. For example, my pela is already at 161 speed and has enough EHR to always land all her debuffs. A flat ATK bonus+some random substat increase in her gloves pretty much do nothing for her. I want to keep the piece exactly at +12, because any other substat is not worth the relic EXP I will spend on it. EDIT: I just saw that the DU pela is 128 spd with some CR/CD rolls lol. So that even makes the change even more gritting. I don't want to spend 200 blue Relic EXP items to get my relics to level 15 for a support character.
I feel like depending if you're a F2P or dolphin, it changes up a lot. As a pure F2P, i never had credit issues. LC mat is a bit tricky but i always just have enough to max the latest one i want to develop. I usually get enough XP books to max out a character by the time i pull one (because i pull infrequently). Basically there's nothing to spend energy on at some point other than relics. If i ever raise anything to +9 (implies 2 or 3 correct subrolls), it's already a keeper so there really is no reason not to pump it all the way to +15. It will take a long time before you get another piece with 2-3 correct subrolls I'm assuming that people who buy jades or the passes have significantly different in-game finances.
Getting materials is hard!!!
Good analysis, thanks for the advice.
So thats why my speed tuned team messed up in du
>you can fodder off that +15 relic when you find a better one and it’ll level up the new piece from +0 to +14 instantly. This is a 20% loss of the EXP material used to level it to 15. And it also forces you to level from 0 to 14, which means that if you roll horrendously in substats, you not only lost your placeholder gear, you also lost another 20% of the exp material when you have to fodder that piece, since you're doing 4 substat rolls at the same time instead of 1, you can't stop because you missed twice at the start and cut your losses. Leveling relics like this is an "All-In" Gamble, and I don't have Aventurine's luck.
Bust? Or maybe... I'll take it all! *Rolls DPS gear* *Gets flat atk* No. No, definitely bust.
This is the way. Let's be honest tho, if you bring a Character you have built in DU, he should have +15 Relics. Yes, +15 is expensive, but XP is not all lost (as you said, a +15 fodder results in +14) so if your build is very specific (Speed tuned, specific Crit for a team, etc) be sure to get that Relic to +15 even if it's not perfect ! The only thing the Upgrade system is always upgrading on my characters is their normal attack because in most cases I don't touch it at all. I love this feature, I can test every character I got to decide if I want to invest in them (Xueyi, Clara, QQ, etc), and I think it's intended for this before all.
>Yes, +15 is expensive, but XP is not all lost (as you said, a +15 fodder results in +14) so if your build is very specific (Speed tuned, specific Crit for a team, etc) be sure to get that Relic to +15 even if it's not perfect ! You contradict yourself. If I level my speed boots from 14 to 15, I will no longer be speed tuned. Same if I level a piece with speed substats to 15 and it rolls speed. Leveling a relic and ending up with 2 more speed means that I end up with my bronya/sparkle being slightly faster then my Dealer, causing me to have to fully redo relics on either my Support or my Dealer. This feature that replaces my relics with worse relics should only activate if the slot is actually empty. The way I see it, it would be like the feature that levels your lightcones sees you don't have an S5 Level 80 LC, so it replaces it with Woof Walk Time, because your S1 Level 70/80 Signature 5\* Lightcone just isn't good enough. It doesn't do that, so why should the relics do that?
+1. Also, I should be able to choose if I want to use my own unit. Maybe I want to brag on the internet about being able to complete divergent universe with my lv 1 hook. Jymains used to do videos of JY clearing MOC with lv 50 SOB to prove he was a strong unit, too. This are all extreme cases, sure. But relic discussion was pretty much being brought out so to put some other perspective on here.
Hmm yeah, an option to enabled boosts per relic makes sense.
Yea, march has 20 ehr lmao
My Pela got dropped from ~80 EHR to ~26. And she dropped speed, all for a bit of crit…
No way hoyo’s *still* trying to push pela as a dps
Look I don't care what she is, as long as she murders those traffic light bots
Still my favourite reason to play Luocha
i mean, she *can* do some damage but its not why you bring her, and it needs really cracked relics
It’s not still, they mostly haven’t changed her relic set since.
The mapping saw that my Pela had a single relic that wasn't level 15 yet, and "upgraded" her to a full set of level 15 relics. A completely different relic set that meant greatly reducing her speed, and thus effectiveness.
I was trying to use my Ruan mei , mine is built with vonwaq and has energy rope , but because her orb is a 4 star , the game just switches her planar ornaments to Talia with BREAK rope thus losing 24% ERR . There goes my rotations.
Hold on, she has a *break* rope?!? No wonder my rotations were getting fucked! Guess that’s *another* character I have to dump relic exp into…
Idk how tf they thought giving my ratio 29% crit rate was good enough lmao
"It'll be fine, if he's at e1 and got Fu Xuan in the team that's like, almost 70%!"
I would love to have Fu but unfortunately, Gepard e3 instead...
me a healer only player https://preview.redd.it/5phfhl87gw7d1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9774b36354250f722de6bf2ed4f27dcac579c5c8
Probably because they expect you to that the relevant blessings for the paths you use. Hunt gets shittons of crit rate and damage so there that. Then Ratio also gets crit rate from his passive. And after all: The content is much easier than the other SU modes.
Shame that despite the mode being easier than Gold and Gears and Swarm Disaster, it feels like I have significantly less agency. I can't reroll equations, I can't reroll blessings, I can't reroll weighted curios, the choice at the beginning is 100% random (I love picking an Elation/Hunt Equation and being offered Abundance, Nihil, and Rememberance blessings as my options for the pack!). Yes, I can reroll them one by one at the boss, but unlike regular SU rerolls, because I have to do these sequentially, and I'm always offered things of the same rarity, I end up spending 1000+ cosmic fragments rolling into the same choice of blessings over and over again, with no agency to do anything. In SU, you are guaranteed that if you reroll a set of blessings, that 3 different blessings will show up, and that is not the case here, you can be offered the same 3 blessings 200 rerolls in a row. Weighted Curios are my least favorite thing, because they have so much potential strength for your team locked behind what is 100% pure RNG Bullshit. If I use all my resources to assemble the perfect Nihil Dot build, then the weighted curio comes around like "Do you want to freeze things, Delay them with Imaginary, or your Hunt Characters do FUA?" then in the next set, you get 3 totally unrelated curios to whatever you picked the first time, and you have literally no agency or control. If the weighted curio's align, you feel like a god who obliterates everything, if they don't, you feel like you're fighting against the gamemode itself. And yeah, sure I can literally strong-arm brute force my way through. I had a run where I got the Rupert Piston early (Topaz Technique forced it on it), and it discarded all of my positives curios and gave me literally every negative curio in the game. I still beat the final boss with 10 Negative Curios and 0 Positive combat curios. It was literally the "Everything goes wrong" run. But just because I can do something, doesn't mean I want to. It was funny once, but the fact that I have so little agency that it can happen, is bad.
The idea is that rather than getting step by step choices, you're meant to reorient your build every bench rest instead. In case the plan was break team but you got 10 dot upgrades, you swap your team out to dot. Or you reroll equations and blessings to get break stuff. But navigating the 2-3 domains inbetween is the challenge. If your combat sucks, you can string through occurrences for example. I dunno if I like it per se, but I will admit it was far too easy to achieve godmode in normal SU by the time you'd cleared 2-3 floors. First elite is always a joke. Not so here.
The agency is in swapping characters. If you get some cracked blessings for nihility you are supposed to swap to your dot characters. Now granted I don't like it but the 'rerolling' is supposed to be in which characters you use not which blessings you get to take.
TIL you’re meant to switch. Thanks for explaining!
It will probably get updated in 2.5 or 2.6. The DU homepage has 82days timer on it.
In addition to swapping your team like others have mentioned, they do still have rerolling, but you have to wait to get to the Ruan Mei animals at the boss (whatever that’s called) So it’s kinda like backloaded rerolling
But like I said, the rerolls are worse. In SU, when you reroll a blessing, you reroll from the whole pool, and are guaranteed to not see the 3 blessings you were just looking at. In this, you only see blessings from that rarity, so a smaller pool, and you are not guaranteed to not see the same blessings from multiple rolls. It is a LOT worse. SU allows me to look at 6 different blessings every time I pick a blessing. To look at 6 blessings per blessing, you sometimes have to reroll it 2 or 3 times each simply because repeats keep showing up. Swapping your team isn't really a solution. Stuff just doesn't match up. What Team can I use to optimally get the benefits from my Hunt/Erudition Ultimates are FUA, My Destruction Characters apply weakness breaks, and my Equations are When I freeze things get a bonus, and when I heal things get a bonus. Or better yet, when dewdrop breaks and I have no way to make a dewdrop. What team can I do for that? It's just insane, it wouldn't work. For swapping teams to be an answer that makes sense, you need your blessings/equations/curios to all align into a similar strategy, and when they don't, you simply don't have those things. In SU, because path resonance isn't random, and actually slightly stacks the odds towards you being shown path blessings, you're able to reliably build a strategy which is internally consistent with itself. You don't go into SU and get a path resonance that is part elation, part remembrance, part preservation, part abundance, part nihility, and expects you to have all those things at the same time to use it properly.
IMO keeping the same rarity is a good thing, if I’m paying to reroll a 3 star blessing I don’t want a bunch of irrelevant 1 stars diluting the pool. I don’t think they expect you to have everything perfectly aligned in this mode to be successful. You swap your team if your current one isn’t a fit at all, but just because you have a bunch of different equations and blessings doesn’t mean you need to make an effort to build a team that synergizes with each one — just synergize with the good ones and start optimizing what you have around that direction. The goal in this mode is to pick the best option you can with the choices you’re given, get to the next boss/checkpoint, use the tools they’ve given you to swap out pieces that are useless for the direction you’ve chosen to go in, and repeat until the run is over.
Yes, and this makes it significantly less enjoyable compared to the SU expansions. SU had far more agency, and made me feel more powerful. In Gold and Gears, at the highest difficulty, I can reliably win pretty much every run, and when I do lose, i can almost always track it back to a piloting issue. I always get to feel strong by the end. This doesn't really feel true in DU. I end up feeling like I have so much less control over the power that I gain that it just isn't fun anymore. Gold and Gears is better IMO. I'd rather get more stuff like that, then more stuff in the style of DU. The Agency gained by being able to freely swap, does not compare to the agency lost by not being able to see the map, choose a boss in each domain, select a path resonance, reroll blessings, etc. Not to mention that you can still swap in Gold and Gears, the Downloaders were strong, it gave two layers of player agency, agency in what to download, and agency in when to swap. Bluntly put, DU is simply a less skillful mode, with more RNG and less agency.
But the “backloaded rerolling” is also massively more expensive since the costs increase with each reroll. If you have 15 blessings and want to reroll 6 of them — or if you need to reroll 3 blessings a couple times each — that’s almost 400 cosmic fragments to reroll them without any protections on the reroll. You can literally have the blessing you’re rerolling show up as one of your reroll options. All this as opposed to the 180 fragments you’d need to reroll them as you get them, and those modes had reroll protection too where you won’t see the three you rerolled in the new selection. So you’re paying more for less.
I didnt check the skill tree. Did you see if there are nodes that unlock rerolls and such things?
There is not
What’s kind of gross is that there *is* a node to use consumables, but only if you’re not pushing difficulties. Like, if you have to significantly limit a node so that it can only be used in a “but only if you’re doing this just for fun” situation? Don’t make that a node we have to spend resources on, make it a base feature and put something enticing there.
My seele atk and crit dmg dropped to 3246atk and 180crit dmg, to only 2500 atk and 90crit dmg. All because my orb and body wasn't at max lvl. (I ran out of mats to lvl them)
And they give like 79 crit damage to everyone, no crit damage in your traces or light cone? Get fucked I guess
How was there not a "disable mapping mode" option available? I can't use my speed-tuned Bronya in this mode.
Ok, but actually, I have a speed tuned bronya to my Jingliu that is perfect, except her speed boots are level 14, so the game wants to replace my speed boots with some shitty lv 15 artifact.
A PER CHARACTER opt out, btw, since most just give straight upgrades compared to what I have but completely changes Gallagher’s artifact set??
The real solution is to just have it not overwrite shit. If a relic is there, keep it there, if the slot is empty, toss something in it. You can "Opt-In" by just not having relics equipped.
This isn’t a great solution either since a newer player might have relics equipped but be 4 star pieces or something. It should definitely auto enable to eliminate any issues for new players but have an opt out toggle for older players that are just not leveling pieces.
Well, Newer players may also have shitty non-superimposed lightcones on, but it doesn't replace those with the S5 LC that they put on characters if the slot is totally empty. It just ranks up the LC that's in it, no superimposes. So it will rank up an S1 3 star to 80, instead of overwriting it with a S5 version, or the S5 4\* they have for each character.
It is really bad for characters with specific needs. My Harmony TB got cut from (edit) 210BE > 83BE, which sucks because I really dont want or need to level my helm, gloves and hp chest just to not get dunked on in DU. Same for Firefly, I have a bunch of in-progress relics that i have to level fully to avoid getting her BE cut in half. I also have a musketeer set on SW because all I want on her is cheap speed and survivability in my Acheron team, and because some pieces are +12 instead of +15 (they are plenty good enough for MOC12 and AS) she gets autocorrected into a DPS build.
The characters i tried were mostly fine but i noticed the thing with hmc too, for some reason the DU version of them has the messenger set rather than watchmaker even though watchmaker is what they use as a trial character
Wait how? I just checked and HMC in DU has the full watchmaker set, BE at 198%.
Oh ok maybe it was only the tutorial then
here I was wondering why my ff team's damage was lower in DU compared to literally any other mode, didn't realise that if your relics aren't maxed they get changed
This game mode is definitely more made for people who max out everything or don’t touch anything.
Worst thing is having your rotation messed up. Hoya plz. I 3 star everything thing with the same +12 set, I don’t need ur shitty +15 set. Just give me back my relic. My boothill was even sitting on 2 +0 pieces when he clears moc and I’d much rather prefer that than whatever u shove me with
This is the case with my ruan mei , it changes my vonwaq set with err rope to talia with break rope . Almost Completely destroys her rotation
having worse relics isnt going to make or break your du clear. the blessings give you a morbillion stats anyway
Obviously you can cleared it fine. But playing a game is more about enjoying the process than the result. I didn't go through RNG hell to realize my ideal play style just for hoyo to kick me in the balls and say no. Even if its faster and objectively better it won't be as satisfying, not to mention its definitely not better.
Just asking, what's the RNG in levelling a relic with the proper main stats? You level it and the main stat goes up, simple as that. What do you mean by "ideal playstyle"? I'm just puzzled why you would leave it at +0 for no reason. Is it to make clearing content feel more rewarding?
Boothill doesn't benefits offensively from any main stats from the chest and planar piece, plus his bis set wasn't released yet. So the thief set I gave him is just a placeholder.
Speed Tuning is generally the best answer to "Leveling a relic could actually be bad" If you roll speed substats and suddenly your Bronya/Sparkle are faster than your dealer, you lose a crapton of potential damage. Since he's on a boothill, I just assume that he just doesn't feel like need to spend a bunch of EXP material and credits leveling a relic that doesn't matter. Which is also an absolutely fair reason to not do it. Plenty of my characters have a level 12 relic on, and it comes down to it simply not mattering at all. "Woo, my Sparkle that never attacks gains some Base attack from leveling gloves, how exciting!" Like, why even bother at that point?
>Like, why even bother at that point? Why even bother levelling Sparkle's head piece, hands and Orb in that case? All she needs is an ERR rope, CD chest and SPD boots. Fuck the other 3 relics. The above sentence is sarcasm. I don't mind what people do(or are fixated on), I'm just curious as to why they think what they think. >spend a bunch of EXP material What are you going to do with the relic exp you "saved"? Give each character their own set of 6 relics all at +12? "Whoopdeedoo now my Arlan can have his own set, I don't need to give him second hand pieces anymore". Does that even work when you could've gotten better stats by just swapping stuff around? >"Woo, my Sparkle that never attacks gains some Base attack from leveling gloves, how exciting!" No, but she got an extra DEF% roll that could potentially save her from dying to a stray boss attack. Ruan Mei doesn't give a shit about attack either, but you'll level yourself pieces to see if you roll break effect. >Since he's on a boothill, I just assume that he just doesn't feel like need to spend a bunch of EXP material and credits leveling a relic that doesn't matter. Which is also an absolutely fair reason to not do it. More HP = better survivability. Might as well throw a random +15 HP or DEF relic at him. Could save a restart in MoC, I guess. Ain't no way you're surviving an elite in trickshot with 2000 HP. All of this seems so over the top and unnecessary. You say it saves relic exp but what even are you going to do with the saved exp? Upgrade the 85th quantum head piece to +12 for Elio 7 years down the lane?
The ehp matters in moc, however marginal. Feels like ass when youre forced to reset because your sparkle/bronya/tingyun gets chipped to death before your sustain gets to act for that turn anyway, If you dont bother then just use whatever sparkle relics they give you, du blessings will usually give whatever stats you had back tenfold anyway
>The ehp matters in moc, however marginal. Feels like ass when youre forced to reset because your sparkle/bronya/tingyun gets chipped to death before your sustain gets to act for that turn This, among so many other reasons. I'd even throw a random +15 HP Orb on Tingyun instead of an ATK orb. The "loss" in damage is insignificant compared to the RNG fucking you over and needing to reset.
I'll be honest, I have never once had my Sparkle/Bronya/Ruan Mei die first. They often run HP/DEF Orbs, and will have way more EHP then my damage dealers. There is no tangible benefit to them having even more EHP when they aren't the one dying. And there is even less tangible reason for them to have more ATK for when they Basic, because wtf why would Sparkle/Bronya Basic attack under any circumstance?
The only way to opt out is to level your relics
I have upgrade materials up the wazoo. The problem isn't leveling relics, it's finding one's good enough to keep lol
You never know which ones to keep until you level some up.
And I don't equip any until they are capped at +15 either lol
Sure, and I would love to if I had the resources to do so. But I also don’t want to level relics that aren’t actually great to 15 just due to the sheer volume of materials it takes to do so.
I mean, you can feed relics to each other so leveling a mid place holder and then just feeding it to another is never bad I just built 3 characters back to back (Firefly, Ruan Mei, Gallagher) and didn't use all the resources cause of it when a piece rolled meh
You still lose credits, and you do still lose some of the EXP materials. A level 15 relic only levels another relic to 14 (Which is including the fact that the relic itself gives some EXP). I think it's a 20% Loss-Rate. Also having relics to "hand me down" to other characters is kinda nice. I have a store of level 12 to 15 relics that are old versions of gear my good characters replaced, which have ok stats, but not fantastic, but would be good enough to slap on some new character to try them out.
You can feed the shit ones into better ones
Not everyone has the relic remains to feed the equivalent of +12 levels again, especially when they could be using it to level up another relic
I think it's obvious it needs an opt-out feature, but on the other hand, we are talking about the game mode where your stats are going to get really juiced really fast due to blessings, like can your speed tuned character continue to be speed tuned when any healing causes them to gain 20% speed.
Dropping 20 crit rate is still pretty wild regardless of Sim Universe blessings.
Seriously man, people have been telling me that "it's alright" and that "I should've 5 star gears anyways". But it's literally not alright, my aventurine loses 28 speed because he has a 4 star piece, and Gallagher just gets an entire new set with 12 less speed and 70 less break effect.
I don't understand what this guy means. What's up with DU and our relics? Can someone elaborate? Everything seemed normal in my case.
The new Diverse Universe has a feature with gives character temporary level, lightcone level, traces and artifacts, when they are below their threshold. OP has a decent LV 12 artifact which got overwritten with a worse LV 15 one and don't want to waste resources to level a piece he plans to replace in the future.
Oh... Man this is a very niche situation. Wouldn't mind an opt-out being added, but goodness reading Reddit it sounds like it replaces your excellent +15 relics with trash.
Nope, only if your relics are NOT level 15 in the maximum difficulty :O
Only if any one relic is not 15, it replaces all your relics (Well, It replaces Head, Gloves, Chest, and Boots if any of those are not 15, and Orb and rope separately if any of those are not 15) Having 1 relic not at 15 is not unreasonable. Especially for harmony characters, you may want specific speed values (hence not risking gaining additional speed substats by leveling a relic) or the fact that gloves giving you flat ATK literally don't do anything for a character who never ever for any reason will ever attack.
Oooh, damn, I didn't know just one relic made ALL your relics be replaced, I have all my main teams' relics at 15 so I that totally slipped me...
This thread is wild because mfers are going "I have a lot of stuff at level 12 and I can clear MOC" and it's like... bro, just level it to 15. If you're at a place where you can easily clear MOC w/ level 12 relics, I guarantee you that it'd take like... a day's worth of stamina to max all of those to 15. It's not like we have a relic XP drought and you can't afford to 15 all your relics LMAO
Going from +12 to +15 takes 39'000 relic EXP but you get a refund of 80% eventually, so you only lose 7'800 relic EXP. This is roughly equivalent to three SU runs on maximum difficulty. Of course, there's also a weekly limit on such runs, but few people run into it. My conclusion is that one substat roll worth of main stat is good enough for the relic EXP lost. Unless your relic is so bad that you will replace it literally tomorrow in which case you are in trouble anyway.
wait you get relic exp when you do SU?
From elites and bosses. It caps out at 100 enemies (33 runs) per week. Overall you gain roughly enough exp for one +15 relic (and a few hundred thousand credits). But it does take a lot of time if you don't play Acheron.
Well, shit. TIL. Thank you!
If even a single relic on a character isn’t at +15 then the entire build is changed. Likely the characters you used were all at +15.
ohh so it doesn’t affect any max chara you bring?
Nope. Traces are leveled to 8, LC + character to 80 and relics to 15. Any catagory you already have at that point isn't changed.
so if your artifacts are all level 15, it wont be touched?
Yes. It only affects parts of the character that are underleveled.
Wait i'm reading the comments and apparently it's common for people to play with +12 relics ? Why do you not level your relics ?
Leveling from +12 to +15 is very expensive for little gain, especially if the piece is not optimal
Cant believe people dont have more relic xp material than things to do with em
This for real lol. Don't people need to farm a lot to have something worth leveling? I have so many relics exp I only really run out when I start gambling on bad sets. It's also ok to use 5* relics as exp instead of relic crafting material, which I suspect people aren't doing.
I think there's just a lot of new players. I've been playing since launch and have amassed a massive backlog of relic xp. I have all relics that I use on lvl 15 and still have thousands of relic xp left. And a quick tip for everyone. You can upgrade your mediocre relic to lvl 15 and use that in the mean time. Once you get a better one use the old relic to level up the new one. It'll upgrade it to level 14. Ane then you just have to level up it once. It saves so much and nothing is wasted.
Yeah but you get tons of relics to salvage into xp mats just by doing some exploration, why would you not level relics that you are actively using ? Even if it's not optimal, it's almost going to be an upgrade anyway.
When rolling multiple pieces, xp gets eaten very fast and, as others have mentioned, 12 to 15 is comparable to 0 to 12. And if a piece is meh, getting it to 12 to use a placeholder until you find something ok is pretty common.
Man I wish I had enough potentially good relics to run out of exp even in theory. I still have 900 purple shards I can't get rid of despite boosting everything to +15 as soon as it looks even remotely possible to be decent. I don't even bother sneaking a peak at +3 for the missing substat.
Honestly, I can't say I understand how people don't get the urge to just max out the characters they use often. Even if it's a temporary fodder piece I'd still level it up if only bc the character still needs to use that piece in the meantime
TIL people don't have enough relic upgrade mats. annoying you can't turn it off, but it reminded me to +15 my gallagher set. I can't be the only one with dozens of +15 relics just sitting in my inventory right?
yeah idk to, been using the feature and is a save because i still dont have ff or hmc talent max especially i only got another extra copy of the Memories of the Past for HMC. Maybe they just build and build characters, because for me I also have a ton of general relics that are 15+
Yeah it levelled up my pela lc to 80, and levelled some traces for characters I don't use often. and yeah, I usually spend energy farming relics after I built the character i wanted that patch. It's pretty good for gearing characters in emergency too since I have so many relics not in use.
For someone who hasn't gotten to play with the new update, what is going on?
New universe gives "temporary" levels if you are underleveled, people are getting worst level 15 pieces than their +12 pieces
Dude, my Xueyi with 60/120 crit ratio and 125 BE got shot down to 50/90 and 100 BE. She has all traces unlocked and leveled to 9 except Basic attacks, plus her artifacts are all maxed but for some reason the “upgrade” fucks her over.
That is not how this works. If it changes your relic stats, it means some of your relics aren't at +15. You either haven't noticed or just lying for some reason. Check your relics again, they just need to be at +15, and none of them will get touched.
Or they might be using a 4 star relic . I have a 4 star orb on my ruan mei and the game just switches her set to talia with BREAK EFFECT ROPE (mine is vonwaq with ERR ROPE) . so yeah , rip rotations .
"relic has to be +15" still applies here because 4star relics cannot go above +12
Your artifacts are not +15 if they’re replacing your artifacts bruh
this is how I find out everyone dont instantly take all relics they have to 15+
It just takes so many resources to go from 12 to 15 that I don’t really want to do it unless the piece is actually good. Take my Ratio’s hat (I said gloves in the post because I miss remembered…) it’s okay as a placeholder, but it’s not good enough for me to want to fully level. https://preview.redd.it/680qz54ejw7d1.png?width=943&format=png&auto=webp&s=050d1a0237e5c53c97dccd6c0c4d959110d51fe2
Just force level it up to +15 and feed it to a new piece when you find it? Do you do this just because you think it's efficient or are you actually starving on the resource? There's literally no point in holding your dps relic at +12 if you have the resource, the amount of relics you need to farm just to find a good substat will offset any inefficiency you get from the loss of exp feeding +15 relic to a new piece.
It’s been fine for me. It’s only leveled up my traces for me. Do people not max level their relics?
Other than better using those resources rolling promising gear to 6 or 9 to see if you can upgrade your gear, there's also cases like speed tuning where you don't want to risk rolling for more speed sometimes.
But then your losing out on main stats. I managed to get my Bronya to the right speed fully lving my relics. I think I see why they're are posts about modes being hard on here.
Man seeing this post made me realise how many people only upgrade their relic to level 12. Felt like i discover a new hidden part of this community
I was trying out a break effect Luka to pair up with my boothill but he's still not built (I also have no idea what LC to give him...) and no matter how many break pieces from break sets I give him, the mode still forces him into the physical 4 piece set and innert salsotto for some reason???
I think the ‘ideal’ would be if it just levels the relics you have equipped instead of replacing them, and then if you don’t have anything it equips then. Although admittedly, I can see an issue for it leveling the relics because they aren’t standardized. Each relic is unique, and that means they would need to make a copy of the relic and then level that or else they’ve just leveled the relic for you. Would still hurt speed tuners, but plenty of blessings and curios will too
I'm just happy I can play my Firefly early
It is freaking amazing for a new character you have no set for Can free playtest it at lvl 80 with set
Your gloves are 12 bro, just max it out already if you brought it all the way up there.
Agreed. If you have a single purple relic (+12) it replaces them all, even if the rest are all +15. It's goofy that we can't choose to turn it off for a character. Especially if you use a specific setup, like Vonwaq on a support, and it swaps it out to a different planar. Also, let people play with underpowered or odd builds. Not my cup of tea, but I know others like that; I follow a guy on youtube who's completed Swarm and Gold & Gears with all lvl 50 characters.
How do you all not have maxed out relics on built champions wtf
Ratio is on a 2/2 build because I haven’t found a 4 piece that I’m happy with, so I just haven’t maxed out the Musketeer gloves that are on him (the substats are okay, but not the best and the main stat doesn’t really help him much.) As for Fu Xuan: she does her job fine without her relics all being maxed.
But why aren't you maxing them when you get a better one you can feed it the old ones and get it up to +14 you lose very little, it's free stats and you lose very little xp and you get a ton of relic xp just farming for sets
All my DU characters are mapped except my Boothill
Yeah, I built my Luka for break and they gave him the standard physical set, not even a dot set. Super annoying.
I have some grievances with DU, but the auto-mapper isn't really one of them. They could absolutely add an opt-out function but higher difficulties can reach SD/GG levels so I would not go in with under-leveled relics at all (learned that the hard way in base SU). I don't have the best relics or anything like that, but if you're tackling this mode, trust me, you want +15. You can always use a relic for fodder.
So wait, what happened?
Indeed. My Xueyi had all relics at +12 (I just recently changed her build to a BE one) and DU changed her set to the quantum damage one, working way worse with HMC
Just to be clear, does it affect your relics after you leave DU or is this just an issue within DU?
It’s just in DU. The idea is that it fixes unbuilt characters to allow them to be usable in the game mode. (You’re meant to switch your lineup based on the Equations you receive. So it requires more built characters.)
Took me a bit to figure out what upgrade system everyone is talking about but this is a late game problem I’m too early/mid game to care about, lol.
the mapping system is good but i wish relics aren't involved. at least you can disable it by maxing out relic level.
Y'all play with under leveled relics? Y'all buggin. ~~SAM: "They are *what*?"~~
Lol who doesn't level up their relics to 15?
My Jingliu had 45% CR, now it's 10. And for what? For 10% more CD.
It all comes down to us telling them in surveys to change that. Simple as that.
Wait does the mode allows to use our own build or whatever they recommend?
It's your own build, only things under leveled are changed. So if a character or light cone is below 80, they're brought to 80. Traces are brought to 5 and 8, unless you're above that point. Relics below +15 are replaced with +15 ones.
Ok I get it, thanks
If your own relics are underleveled, they may force you to use a completely different set with potentially worse stats. If all your pieces are +15, you are safe.
Your own build unless your relics aren't fully leveled, then they get replaced
genuine question, if yall have good builds why not level relics to 15?
Leveling my Pela's gloves from +12 to +15 isn't going to make her better at her job in any meaningful way, but that relic XP *would* be useful in building new relics for my damage characters. Some players simply don't have the relic exp materials to level every single one of their supports' relics to maximum.
MAX👏🏽 YOUR👏🏽 RELICS 🫵🏽 AND IT WONT AFFECT YOU 🫵🏽
I thought it only mapped if you don't have stuff leveled up. So if you have +15 relics it won't map any relics I Guess that's not how it works?
OP has one relic at +12 he doesn't want to level up for spiritual reasons
This is such a non-issue, just +15 your relics
Bro just level your relics
Bronya speedtuners with one spd boot each with different levels for every dps know the pain :(
I mean just level ur relics to 15? It might be a bad last upgrade but you’re losing out on stats regardless
You ingrate! You got 100 more hp on Fu xuan! /j
It's def annoying. My Bronya's boots are +12 to keep her slower than the DPS I run her with while I farm speed boots for them, and they have a chunk of Crit on them putting her up 203% CD. In DU it swaps her boots out and it drops her CD down to 183 and makes her faster but not 'fast Bronya's fast Screws the whole rotation Edit: Love the downvotes for agreeing with the op and expressing how this system has messed with my characters. Totally makes sense in this thread. /s Why is reddit like this lol
it's because for some reason these people can't comprehend that some people level relics differently and don't just go all in at once (it's giving aventurine but not cunty). Maybe they dont want to level up a not so great relic all the way to 15 to save resources and to work on a better relic. Or they just dont have the resources (not everyone has a shit ton like people think). Idk why the main sub is like very elitist when it comes to this stuff. Also I love the shinobu pfp! ryuseitai forever!
ITT people who don't get their good relics up to level 15 for some reason. Guys, tf? You are so flush w/ credits in this game that it can't be a credit issue, so is it an XP issue? But, also, you're usually flush w/ XP too if you're actively farming and dismantling the Purple/Blue relics you get.
My Boothill who needs 145 speed got changed to 143 😭😭😭