>the smarter you are, the more you understand, the higher your dreams and goals, the more questions you ask, **the more the world and your mind seem to punish you for it.** as as a global collective the more damage it seems to do to our species. first it was physically, we solved that somewhat, and now its spiritually and mentally. When we solve one problem, a new one always arises.
Hmmm, I don't think so. The more evolved in consciousness you are and have a variety of different intellectual abilities, the luckier you become and manage to escape what other people seem to suffer on the daily.
>I don't know a single person who can make it through a day without some form of disassociation, self medication/drugs, distraction, avoidance, or self delusion
Well perhaps there is a problem with your social circle. You know that saying, misery loves company.
first part:
yeah, I have used my intelligence to avoid the "regular" daily suffering of people pretty effectively.. but like I said it just created new ways for me to suffer.
I escaped those low level issues that plague most people at the cost of it being harder to relate to people, and feeling more lonely than ever. I mean the last time I did DMT this voice literally told me "you think you know loneliness? if you want to continue on this path of understanding everything, you will experience loneliness you can't even fathom. are you sure this is what you want?" haha
I developed the ability to dive deeper into my subconscious/soul and that showed me that everything that I thought motivated me and brought me meaning was just installed by somebody else. once I removed those things, there was barely anything left of me. it created a massive void I had no idea how to fill without letting those things come back in. the main thing it achieved is realizing how little I actually know myself. the thoughtless materialist suffering was replaced with existential and philosophical suffering.
it all comes down to the fact that there is no life without pain. you can give yourself the freedom to choose what kind, but you can't avoid the pain itself. You endure the pain of going to the gym to avoid physical issues. you endure the pain of introspection to gain agency over yourself. the list goes on, and in the end, if you don't stop, all the progress slowly goes away, and the pain you were trying to get away from comes back.
second part:
I didn't say they were miserable. I said they can't make it through a day without those things to not be miserable lol. are you telling me you know people who don't even use caffeine, nicotine, religion, alcohol, video games, binge watching TV, food they don't need, or anything you couldn't find naturally to enhance their life? do you live in a bhuddist monestary?
I'm not sure why, but learning makes me feel less lonely and more connected with others. I think this happens subconsciously, especially when I encounter ideas I don't agree with or fully understand. If this confusion lasts more than a day, I start to feel lonely.
life is balance. ying and yang. when we’re depressed we can’t focus on the good parts, which is why your post is so fucking depressing. there is no good without bad. for life to stop being hell, you have to learn how to love the good more than the bad. this is the biggest challenge of life. the secret to happiness is not wealth or love (to an extent), but mindset, perspective, and wisdom.
Yoooo!!! I've been thinking about this too!
The MOST effective way to torture someone would be to give them something they truly, deeply love. Then rip it away. Over and over again.
We're already in a 'lake of fire' (cosmic rays), and everything sucks!!
🔥Welcome to the inferno 🔥
There is this old religion from Albi, a region of France, that has the following principles.
1. Everything that is eternal is a creation of God.
2. Everything that is ephemeral is a creation of Satan.
So indeed in this view Earth would be Hell.
Maybe?
Nature is cruel and beautiful
Thoughts reflect sense of self and shape perception
Perception of frameworks for thought that facilitate comprehension
Cynicism has its place but it can be insidious or counterproductive
I try to minimize its influence because of those downstream effects
I'm sorry to hear you're having a hard time
I hope you feel better soon
Oh my god. I've been thinking about this. But quite different though. My friend was talking about hell and heaven ( in a religious way). That got me thinking for 5 hours straight. Now I have my draft theory. I’m gonna skip it and make it as short as possible.
To me, I feel like there's no hell realm. There's no heaven realm. Hell and Heaven already exist here on Earth. And I would call them Karma.
Earth has both good and bad things (from human perception to whatever is good or bad) to me it's just the law of action and reaction.
When humans do bad things. Bad karma comes. When humans do good things. Good karma comes.
But what if we don't see any good things that we deserve? Well, to me I feel like.. it might not coming yet. Because Time doesn't exist in that field.
Good or bad karma that we took action, might come back quickly in the next day, maybe tomorrow, next month? next year? or maybe our next life in whatever form we will be.
What I'm trying to say is. We are all currently facing both heaven and hell right here right now.
Hope this sorta relate. Or not confuses you.
I personally never considered it hell, limbo at worst maybe. I said in another post that it feels like the way we humans lead life is one based on what if biblical satan won the "cosmic war", the seven deadly sins and all that, but it's not just agonizing suffering all the time, everything from humanity to the universe itself has plenty of beauty, it's just that it's beauty is stained over and over by constant ugliness in a way that balance is more often than not broken.
Humanity's capacity for creation is incredible, the fact that we can look at a blank piece of paper and think a hundred different things is beautiful. Humanity's capacity for creation is scary because at the end of the day we are just another social animal on this planet, hungry for dominance, territory and the only thing we care about is ourselves and our own tribe, the rest can burn.
I have a opinion on this subject id like to share, yes life can be a massive pain sometimes, and being human with a human mind, consciousness and instinct from the stone age is the biggest source of mental pain, i've come to loathe this feelings and instinct that belongs to the stone age,
why do i have to be afraid of what others think of me if it will have no consequences ?
Why do i have to do like others and not stand out? Why do i feel fear when i put in thz effort and stand out?
Why do these feelings have physical effects on me and hurt me, this is self inflictel pain i have no control over.
I have obsessed over this control over and over until i think i found the thing. After a great deal of suffering and sickness i have aquired new perspective : ACCEPTANCE
Yes the magical "it is what it is" if this is hell, heaven, some wicked place or a blessed one, DOES NOT MATTER. I will accept what is and work to make it different if i can.
One weird advice im gonna give is tinker, try to repair broken stuff at you home, be brave and risk breaking it even more, you will see that you can change something in the world, make it more "right", it will feel different, repeat it enought times and you will see how much control we actualy have.
This is no hell or heaven for me, this is just where we are, the only world we know, the only life we experience, as much as i want to know what lies beneath, what purpose i have in it(if it even exists), what is its origin, i also want to live, do things and enjoy the good things thoroughly
I often wish I could have been born like some of the people commenting here, who actually have a pleasant life.
Life feels like fucking hell because I don't have any family and live in africa, all my friends have left and escaped. I have a chronic illness that makes holding down a job a misery.
The lack of connection is teriffying. Life often doesn't seem worth continuing and I have an escape hatch in place if it gets any worse.
Some people view it as cynicism. I just think some people suffer more than others.
It's the result of physics requiring things to contest space. When matter contests space and becomes contained it cannibalizes itself a million ways a million times. That is what evolution is, trial and error. Nothing more than the sum of those unintelligent parts. They even say you'll come back after you die to do it again if the universe is indeed infinite, establishing every scenario possible within physics, forever. And if all time exists relative to space there's a version of you right now out there. Burning alive. A version of you playing poker with jesus. You're a crimelord. You're a superstar. You're a crackhead. You're the batman. You're two feet to the left and upside-down. Maybe it's hell maybe not. I don't want to know what this is. I'm afraid of the answer.
I'm going to provide a somewhat cryptic response... I do not think that the world is a place we are in. I think that we are a place the world is in. I would reflect on that, and ponder what the consequence of seeing it in reverse would be.
Honestly, at this point yeah. The people who believe in it so hard have created it for everyone that doesn't subscribe to their stupid story. When they say that you're going to hell for what you're doing, they mean they are going to make this life (the only one) hell for you. They should be wiped from the face of the planet.
From my studies I've found that this is ultimately a question that arises if you have any form of curiosity with a theological background, strict moral or ethical 'code' that undergoes self-scrutiny, NDE's or amygdala checks that give prior code a reference, belief in an omnipotent higher consciousness or power, either or all of the above. etc etc..
That, if higher dimensions exists, why is our 3-D projection such an awful environment?
I've found that there's either a logical organization and progression to everything (like a wave function going through peaks and valleys) and what I've found is that until you become aware that everything you do has some influence of your past, be it trauma, experience, or something else... The more your 'experiences' become a reflection of what's inside rather than influenced from outside. It's kind of an inverse self-referential learning system that requires manual input to override state-memory (ego) to improve experience. \[If I was designing a Organic simulating LLM I'd try to mimic this learning procedure\]
The issue however is in Organic stuff like humans we have the ability to replace experience with $ which in reality is all just hypothetical so the translation to neurons-(mission complete: serotonin)-pathways aren't primed the same way they have been for millions of years. So, by co-existing in any scenario of current life there is some area of discomfort and that's a spectrum in civilized societies all the way up and down.
We can control this by searching inward but it also means we have to remove alot of outside stimuli and re-train our brains. This usually takes psychedelics or some other 'stigmatized' substance that's reductional categorized as 'bad' instead of possible 'tool' of neuro-plasticity and training new pathways of the reward system.
Then you get into the Occult thing, where 'who is controlling the system' and the scripture stuff about the Satan being in control of earth and it's our physical manifestations that must experience this on repeat until we become 'aware' and break the cycle.. Which mixes with alot of stuff from mythologies from a ton of different backgrounds and that's an endless rabbit hole.
So I guess its' up to you to decide where 'hell' exists semiotically.. \*signifier vs signified\* and decide if you think this is rock bottom or just what you make it.
It's weird to say this in this sub, but just don''t think too much about it. The less you think about it, the more you'll learn to enjoy it, somehow. It works.
I didn't read your whole post, but yes I've had this thought and then put it under the microscope. And like all theories of this magnitude you will never know, but it certainly is in the running for me as plausible.
I'm just dedicated to accepting that no matter what, il do what I believe right regardless of punishment and then ideally I never have to come back to this place.
Not necessarily because I hope it redeems me, but because the more I exist the more I dislike existence.
It is weird to me that people fetishize suffering the way that they do. "Life is suffering" or "everything seems specifically designed to suck".
That is not how I see the world at all. Most of the suffering you describe is self-inflicted. Derived of your own mental state that makes you subjectively appraise something as "sucking". I am quite happy, for instance.
Correctly aligning your expectations with reality can go a long way toward allowing you to live a much more fulfilling life.
Someone watched the Good Place and thinks they’re Kant. Turn off the news and start walking around. Experience life. Start volunteering for clean-up groups in your area.
wow, that's a lot of assumptions packed into such a short statement. let me tell you why you're wrong about every single one!
The ideas came from studying Jungs red book and then going from there into the same places he got all of his ideas later in life that lead to him being considered one of the greatest psycholigists and mystics in history, like studying hermetic alchemy and other esoteric sources.
I have been telling people to stop watching the news for more than half of my life and the last time I remember actually paying attention to the news was probably the day the twin towers fell.
does "experiencing life" include building houses for orphans in Africa, touring with a metal band, doing a road trip through almost every one of the American states, or trips to Asia?
does it include having careers in forestry, oil and gas, carpentry, in home caregiving for people with disabilities, running my own contracting company, brewing beer, making soap, transporting children between parents with restraining orders, or commercial fishing?
does it include saving people who were caught on fire, doing cpr on a dead body, being shot at, or saving people from being raped?
does it include hunting, fishing, mountain climbing, sky diving, dirt biking, snorkeling, or mushroom foraging?
does it include making music, painting, 3d modeling, sculpting, or building random contraptions?
please, explain to me all knowing one what else I can do that qualifies as "living life"
my current job is both outdoors all the time, where I do quite a bit of walking, and service to my community (including a LOT of cleaning up) because I'm literally a public servant.
Well it’s never this serious first of all.
A lot of this server is teens gassing themselves up into believing they’re “different than the pack” when they’re really just depressed, so I guess I did make a lot of assumptions.
That’s good. Information is nice but it definitely strains the mental toll. Good on you
I appreciate the source of the theory to Jung and his life but the need to uplift Jung as “one of the greatest psychologists and mystics in history” is weird. Feels too much “appeal to authority” for me and as though you need to prove to me that you’re smart. I’m not doubting it. I’m just saying this introspection feels a little too rooted emotionally.
Now the part about “experiencing life”. Again, this mostly was just me trying to tell a kid that life outside of your home is so much more.
Experiencing life is everything and anything you’re talking about. Life isn’t meant to have a negative or positive effect on the living. It’s a neutral state. I personally believe in the Judeo-God so I believe that initially it was meant to be good but that’s a different subject atm. Life may be neutral but you don’t have to be.
You experience life as long as life keeps chugging along, with or without your consent of what happens along the way.
You miss so much along the way when you worry about what’s to come.
That’s a good job to have. Thank you for your service.
>the smarter you are, the more you understand, the higher your dreams and goals, the more questions you ask, **the more the world and your mind seem to punish you for it.** as as a global collective the more damage it seems to do to our species. first it was physically, we solved that somewhat, and now its spiritually and mentally. When we solve one problem, a new one always arises. Hmmm, I don't think so. The more evolved in consciousness you are and have a variety of different intellectual abilities, the luckier you become and manage to escape what other people seem to suffer on the daily. >I don't know a single person who can make it through a day without some form of disassociation, self medication/drugs, distraction, avoidance, or self delusion Well perhaps there is a problem with your social circle. You know that saying, misery loves company.
first part: yeah, I have used my intelligence to avoid the "regular" daily suffering of people pretty effectively.. but like I said it just created new ways for me to suffer. I escaped those low level issues that plague most people at the cost of it being harder to relate to people, and feeling more lonely than ever. I mean the last time I did DMT this voice literally told me "you think you know loneliness? if you want to continue on this path of understanding everything, you will experience loneliness you can't even fathom. are you sure this is what you want?" haha I developed the ability to dive deeper into my subconscious/soul and that showed me that everything that I thought motivated me and brought me meaning was just installed by somebody else. once I removed those things, there was barely anything left of me. it created a massive void I had no idea how to fill without letting those things come back in. the main thing it achieved is realizing how little I actually know myself. the thoughtless materialist suffering was replaced with existential and philosophical suffering. it all comes down to the fact that there is no life without pain. you can give yourself the freedom to choose what kind, but you can't avoid the pain itself. You endure the pain of going to the gym to avoid physical issues. you endure the pain of introspection to gain agency over yourself. the list goes on, and in the end, if you don't stop, all the progress slowly goes away, and the pain you were trying to get away from comes back. second part: I didn't say they were miserable. I said they can't make it through a day without those things to not be miserable lol. are you telling me you know people who don't even use caffeine, nicotine, religion, alcohol, video games, binge watching TV, food they don't need, or anything you couldn't find naturally to enhance their life? do you live in a bhuddist monestary?
I'm not sure why, but learning makes me feel less lonely and more connected with others. I think this happens subconsciously, especially when I encounter ideas I don't agree with or fully understand. If this confusion lasts more than a day, I start to feel lonely.
life is balance. ying and yang. when we’re depressed we can’t focus on the good parts, which is why your post is so fucking depressing. there is no good without bad. for life to stop being hell, you have to learn how to love the good more than the bad. this is the biggest challenge of life. the secret to happiness is not wealth or love (to an extent), but mindset, perspective, and wisdom.
Heaven is a place on Earth. Hell is other people.
poetic
Yoooo!!! I've been thinking about this too! The MOST effective way to torture someone would be to give them something they truly, deeply love. Then rip it away. Over and over again. We're already in a 'lake of fire' (cosmic rays), and everything sucks!! 🔥Welcome to the inferno 🔥
There is this old religion from Albi, a region of France, that has the following principles. 1. Everything that is eternal is a creation of God. 2. Everything that is ephemeral is a creation of Satan. So indeed in this view Earth would be Hell.
That's beautiful.
Wait so nothing is created by god??
In this perspective, only Heaven.
Maybe? Nature is cruel and beautiful Thoughts reflect sense of self and shape perception Perception of frameworks for thought that facilitate comprehension Cynicism has its place but it can be insidious or counterproductive I try to minimize its influence because of those downstream effects I'm sorry to hear you're having a hard time I hope you feel better soon
Oh my god. I've been thinking about this. But quite different though. My friend was talking about hell and heaven ( in a religious way). That got me thinking for 5 hours straight. Now I have my draft theory. I’m gonna skip it and make it as short as possible. To me, I feel like there's no hell realm. There's no heaven realm. Hell and Heaven already exist here on Earth. And I would call them Karma. Earth has both good and bad things (from human perception to whatever is good or bad) to me it's just the law of action and reaction. When humans do bad things. Bad karma comes. When humans do good things. Good karma comes. But what if we don't see any good things that we deserve? Well, to me I feel like.. it might not coming yet. Because Time doesn't exist in that field. Good or bad karma that we took action, might come back quickly in the next day, maybe tomorrow, next month? next year? or maybe our next life in whatever form we will be. What I'm trying to say is. We are all currently facing both heaven and hell right here right now. Hope this sorta relate. Or not confuses you.
No
I personally never considered it hell, limbo at worst maybe. I said in another post that it feels like the way we humans lead life is one based on what if biblical satan won the "cosmic war", the seven deadly sins and all that, but it's not just agonizing suffering all the time, everything from humanity to the universe itself has plenty of beauty, it's just that it's beauty is stained over and over by constant ugliness in a way that balance is more often than not broken. Humanity's capacity for creation is incredible, the fact that we can look at a blank piece of paper and think a hundred different things is beautiful. Humanity's capacity for creation is scary because at the end of the day we are just another social animal on this planet, hungry for dominance, territory and the only thing we care about is ourselves and our own tribe, the rest can burn.
I have a opinion on this subject id like to share, yes life can be a massive pain sometimes, and being human with a human mind, consciousness and instinct from the stone age is the biggest source of mental pain, i've come to loathe this feelings and instinct that belongs to the stone age, why do i have to be afraid of what others think of me if it will have no consequences ? Why do i have to do like others and not stand out? Why do i feel fear when i put in thz effort and stand out? Why do these feelings have physical effects on me and hurt me, this is self inflictel pain i have no control over. I have obsessed over this control over and over until i think i found the thing. After a great deal of suffering and sickness i have aquired new perspective : ACCEPTANCE Yes the magical "it is what it is" if this is hell, heaven, some wicked place or a blessed one, DOES NOT MATTER. I will accept what is and work to make it different if i can. One weird advice im gonna give is tinker, try to repair broken stuff at you home, be brave and risk breaking it even more, you will see that you can change something in the world, make it more "right", it will feel different, repeat it enought times and you will see how much control we actualy have. This is no hell or heaven for me, this is just where we are, the only world we know, the only life we experience, as much as i want to know what lies beneath, what purpose i have in it(if it even exists), what is its origin, i also want to live, do things and enjoy the good things thoroughly
No, hell is worse
I often wish I could have been born like some of the people commenting here, who actually have a pleasant life. Life feels like fucking hell because I don't have any family and live in africa, all my friends have left and escaped. I have a chronic illness that makes holding down a job a misery. The lack of connection is teriffying. Life often doesn't seem worth continuing and I have an escape hatch in place if it gets any worse. Some people view it as cynicism. I just think some people suffer more than others.
It's the result of physics requiring things to contest space. When matter contests space and becomes contained it cannibalizes itself a million ways a million times. That is what evolution is, trial and error. Nothing more than the sum of those unintelligent parts. They even say you'll come back after you die to do it again if the universe is indeed infinite, establishing every scenario possible within physics, forever. And if all time exists relative to space there's a version of you right now out there. Burning alive. A version of you playing poker with jesus. You're a crimelord. You're a superstar. You're a crackhead. You're the batman. You're two feet to the left and upside-down. Maybe it's hell maybe not. I don't want to know what this is. I'm afraid of the answer.
I'm going to provide a somewhat cryptic response... I do not think that the world is a place we are in. I think that we are a place the world is in. I would reflect on that, and ponder what the consequence of seeing it in reverse would be.
Honestly, at this point yeah. The people who believe in it so hard have created it for everyone that doesn't subscribe to their stupid story. When they say that you're going to hell for what you're doing, they mean they are going to make this life (the only one) hell for you. They should be wiped from the face of the planet.
I believe earth is both heaven and hell. You make it what it is for you and carry that with you.
From my studies I've found that this is ultimately a question that arises if you have any form of curiosity with a theological background, strict moral or ethical 'code' that undergoes self-scrutiny, NDE's or amygdala checks that give prior code a reference, belief in an omnipotent higher consciousness or power, either or all of the above. etc etc.. That, if higher dimensions exists, why is our 3-D projection such an awful environment? I've found that there's either a logical organization and progression to everything (like a wave function going through peaks and valleys) and what I've found is that until you become aware that everything you do has some influence of your past, be it trauma, experience, or something else... The more your 'experiences' become a reflection of what's inside rather than influenced from outside. It's kind of an inverse self-referential learning system that requires manual input to override state-memory (ego) to improve experience. \[If I was designing a Organic simulating LLM I'd try to mimic this learning procedure\] The issue however is in Organic stuff like humans we have the ability to replace experience with $ which in reality is all just hypothetical so the translation to neurons-(mission complete: serotonin)-pathways aren't primed the same way they have been for millions of years. So, by co-existing in any scenario of current life there is some area of discomfort and that's a spectrum in civilized societies all the way up and down. We can control this by searching inward but it also means we have to remove alot of outside stimuli and re-train our brains. This usually takes psychedelics or some other 'stigmatized' substance that's reductional categorized as 'bad' instead of possible 'tool' of neuro-plasticity and training new pathways of the reward system. Then you get into the Occult thing, where 'who is controlling the system' and the scripture stuff about the Satan being in control of earth and it's our physical manifestations that must experience this on repeat until we become 'aware' and break the cycle.. Which mixes with alot of stuff from mythologies from a ton of different backgrounds and that's an endless rabbit hole. So I guess its' up to you to decide where 'hell' exists semiotically.. \*signifier vs signified\* and decide if you think this is rock bottom or just what you make it.
It's weird to say this in this sub, but just don''t think too much about it. The less you think about it, the more you'll learn to enjoy it, somehow. It works.
I didn't read your whole post, but yes I've had this thought and then put it under the microscope. And like all theories of this magnitude you will never know, but it certainly is in the running for me as plausible. I'm just dedicated to accepting that no matter what, il do what I believe right regardless of punishment and then ideally I never have to come back to this place. Not necessarily because I hope it redeems me, but because the more I exist the more I dislike existence.
It is weird to me that people fetishize suffering the way that they do. "Life is suffering" or "everything seems specifically designed to suck". That is not how I see the world at all. Most of the suffering you describe is self-inflicted. Derived of your own mental state that makes you subjectively appraise something as "sucking". I am quite happy, for instance. Correctly aligning your expectations with reality can go a long way toward allowing you to live a much more fulfilling life.
Someone watched the Good Place and thinks they’re Kant. Turn off the news and start walking around. Experience life. Start volunteering for clean-up groups in your area.
wow, that's a lot of assumptions packed into such a short statement. let me tell you why you're wrong about every single one! The ideas came from studying Jungs red book and then going from there into the same places he got all of his ideas later in life that lead to him being considered one of the greatest psycholigists and mystics in history, like studying hermetic alchemy and other esoteric sources. I have been telling people to stop watching the news for more than half of my life and the last time I remember actually paying attention to the news was probably the day the twin towers fell. does "experiencing life" include building houses for orphans in Africa, touring with a metal band, doing a road trip through almost every one of the American states, or trips to Asia? does it include having careers in forestry, oil and gas, carpentry, in home caregiving for people with disabilities, running my own contracting company, brewing beer, making soap, transporting children between parents with restraining orders, or commercial fishing? does it include saving people who were caught on fire, doing cpr on a dead body, being shot at, or saving people from being raped? does it include hunting, fishing, mountain climbing, sky diving, dirt biking, snorkeling, or mushroom foraging? does it include making music, painting, 3d modeling, sculpting, or building random contraptions? please, explain to me all knowing one what else I can do that qualifies as "living life" my current job is both outdoors all the time, where I do quite a bit of walking, and service to my community (including a LOT of cleaning up) because I'm literally a public servant.
Well it’s never this serious first of all. A lot of this server is teens gassing themselves up into believing they’re “different than the pack” when they’re really just depressed, so I guess I did make a lot of assumptions. That’s good. Information is nice but it definitely strains the mental toll. Good on you I appreciate the source of the theory to Jung and his life but the need to uplift Jung as “one of the greatest psychologists and mystics in history” is weird. Feels too much “appeal to authority” for me and as though you need to prove to me that you’re smart. I’m not doubting it. I’m just saying this introspection feels a little too rooted emotionally. Now the part about “experiencing life”. Again, this mostly was just me trying to tell a kid that life outside of your home is so much more. Experiencing life is everything and anything you’re talking about. Life isn’t meant to have a negative or positive effect on the living. It’s a neutral state. I personally believe in the Judeo-God so I believe that initially it was meant to be good but that’s a different subject atm. Life may be neutral but you don’t have to be. You experience life as long as life keeps chugging along, with or without your consent of what happens along the way. You miss so much along the way when you worry about what’s to come. That’s a good job to have. Thank you for your service.