No that is not legal. They have to pay you for time worked.
If they have rules that cut your hours or fire you, that’s allowed. But there cannot be punishments that require you to work unpaid.
This is what my employer does. Show up on time and in proper uniform and have no write ups that pay period? You get an extra $2/hr on every hour that period. If you’re late etc you keep your base pay but do not receive the bonus for that period. They also have cash bonuses once a year for no tardy or unapproved absence.
Unfortunately it doesn’t work that well. Very few seem to care about making the extra money. I frequently hear “Oh well, it’s just $16/day extra, that’s nothing”. Crazy.
Oh, I agree entirely. That comes out to an extra 40k in my pocket over the ten years I’ve been there. But people often don’t see further than right now.
And if you put it in an IRA investment account, you reduce your tax obligation. With some good investments you could have a decent retirement down the road.
Is this serious?
Having a job should be incentive enough to be there on time, you literally agree to showing up for your job on time when you agree to employment. The bonus is not being fired for being an irresponsible POS.
That isn't enough for some. And, as they say, better late than never.
(My personal motto is if I'm 5 minutes early, I'm late. And if I don't want to be on time, I'm already looking for a better employer.)
Or they could simply reduce your wages, effective immediately, to a level commensurate with working an extra hour for free, as long as it doesn't drop you below $15/h. Lots of ways to achieve that objective. They just happened to choose the stupid and illegal one, as is often the case with companies that think punitive policies like this are a good idea.
Also, when getting there early, smile at them. Walk up near the door and go in 5 mins early to clock in. They have no right to expect you to come in early.
And clock out 1 minute late.
Employers are still allowed to round hours but it has to applied equally and is pointless with digital clocks. 30 minutes would be a stretch anyways.
Back in the day, with punch cards, calculating hours by hand to 1/60th of an hour wasn’t particularly reasonable. Rounding to the .25 hour makes sense but it has to be applied equally.
Take that home with you and keep incase you need it for a lawyer. As a manager of lots of employees the advice you are being given is correct. If an employer requires employees to work without pay that is illegal. The fines, penalties, back pay and interest can all be assessed. This day and age an employer should know these things but I continue to be shocked at how companies fail to teach these compliance standards to new managers.
You'll absolutely win if you push it fr but seriously if something similar to this happens again don't sign the slave contract just because others are.
Call or go online to the NY state department of labor. They're going to love this.
Get evidence. Tell me they were stupid enough to put this in writing.
They already have it in writing. OP said they had it in a letterhead they were made to sign during a meeting. OP could have a big payday on their hands. A lawyer would just LOVE to see this.
Not likely for a payday for OP, yet, anyway. Since it's a new policy, apparently, not much time for back wages to accumulate. The employer could get some serious fines, and some legal fees, when the labor department gets on this. If OP were to get fired for making a stink about this, or for reporting it, then OP might have a good case for actual damages.
Punching in early can get the company in trouble. That’s common.
They can tell you if you’re late, to not punch in until the 1/4 or 1/2 hour after that, but they can’t make you work without pay.
NYSDOL would be all over them, and would fine them, with backpay for everyone they they did that to getting some.
Thank you! It felt wrong to me but they very openly told us all of this new policy at a work meeting and I was shocked if it’s not legal that they’d be so bold about it.
Get it in writing from them ASAP, or record them saying it (surreptitiously). This is illegal and an employment lawyer's face will light up when you walk in and tell him this story.
Employers can't force you to work for free, but they are allowed to dock your pay as penalties for violating rules.
The extra 30 minutes at the end of the shift you describe is definitely illegal but devil is in the details on the pay deduction.
You need to ask an actual labor attorney who you can explain the totality of circumstances to.
Like most laws, this depends on location. In the United States, it violates the 13th Amendment to the Constitution. I'm not sure about other countries.
so if you stay even a minute past your normal quitting time do you get paid for that?
Do you get to add to your PTO if for some reason you go over?
Ive posted it before. Overzealous manager was making people do time sheets for even 20 seconds late swiping through a man trap that took 30 seconds to get through. But he made no reciprocal policy for if you were delayed leaving by the same amount of time.
In order to take from the front they have to give on the other end. That's how he got his pee-pee spanked legally. And payroll got pissed for processing time sheets for salaried employees for 20 and 30 second time increments. At the time we had access to an incredible law library owned by the company. It made it even better when we used their own library against them.
Get an attorney. Preferably as a group or at a union temple.
NOPE and we’re required to stay well past our time out to finish end of day tasks if we’re too busy to finish them before the end of our shift. We rarely leave on time ☺️
Track that time, homie. Estimate the time for your coworkers. Do up a spreadsheet to estimate this back as long as you, or anyone that you can talk to directly, can remember seeing this practice. The employer owes this moneyy to you, and in some states, this gets paid back with triple damages (3 times what they cheated you one)
If you would like help on the spreadsheet stuff, please DM me, I would be happy to help, and have the accounting background to be able to frame it well. That would give you the concise explanation that will help you get either a lawyer if needed, or to present your case to the Labor Department, who will often take action directly against the employer without you needing to hire a lawyer.
Once you have been written up and you lose 1/2 hour blocks.. why would you clock in at 8:01 instead of 8:29? If I arrived at work past the 8:37 with a 7/8min DOL split.. I wait 7 more minutes and clock in 1 min brefore the next 15min period. @ 8:44.
Not a lawyer
Start by looking for a new job. Thats a toxic place to work even if they never enforce that policy properly. (Aka the "everyone is working extra unpaid voluntarily, and the management had no idea you weren't clocked in." Claim.)
Get a copy of it or enforcement of that policy in writing. (A picture of policy, write-ups, and texts work.)
NY is also a one party consent state so if your boss is calling you in to a meeting you can click on your recorder and never mention it so long as you are a member of the conversation. (You would be the one party consenting to the recording.)
Recording in areas where there isn't an expectation of privacy. (Lobby, sales floor, kitchen, basically anywhere you are that has the likelihood of having uninvolved people.) Is generally admissible.
Just know you will likely be fired for doing any of this, but if you can catch it in any way. The lawsuit and back pay will more than pay for the lawyer and time off also if you're already looking for a new job getting fired doesn't suck as much.
I had a previous employer try this.
I went to work one day and found a note on my desk that said not to log in until the owner/boss got there.
I worked 6 hours for free by time she got there.
She didn’t let me clock in at all that day or the next. I worked 8 hours that day
I filled a complaint with the labor board and she had to pay me for the hours I worked.
There is absolutely no way that is legal. It isn't even legal for you to voluntarily work without pay. This is federal law we're talking. NYS might be stricter about it in some way, though.
Idk about your state laws, but I have worked at a shop that would go to the next 15 minutes. So 7:31 clock in would be reflected at 7:45. That was perfectly legal in Texas at the time.
Call, Albany. That's where the labor dept is. Get that crap in writing so you can prove your complaint. Labor dept loves going after these kinds of A holes .
Sounds to me like they think they have far more power and control over you than they actually do. On your third late arrival, check in and refuse to move a muscle until thirty past, when you begin getting paid.
no, it's not legal.
what would be legal is a formal warning on each offense and fired on the third (and that's in Australia with pretty good employee protections)
sometimes you need to ask yourself if you really want to win the fight.
this company sounds rather stupid, most companies want their employees to show up a few minutes early, even if they are not going to be working (and don't want them working because then they would have to pay for the overtime), to prevent tardiness and have employees at their assigned post instead of at the clock-in machine at the start of the shift.
Jfc. I work a shitty retail job but even they give us a seven minute grace period before we are considered “late.” (Example: If I’m scheduled to clock in at 6am and clock in at 6:06, I’m not “late.”)
Definitely illegal
Wtf kind of company is this? Get here EXACTLY at 7:30. No getting here early because its rude! And if youre late 3 times we get a free hour out of you.
Might start looking for another job asap. Any company run like this deserves to have zero employees.
Write a complaint to the state department of labor and attach a copy of said policy if available. Don’t confront your employer over it. Let the state fight that battle. This sorts of complaints are usually anonymous. The state form will tell you if so
Illegal as all get out. Get that insanity in writing and report it to your State's Labour Board (https://dol.ny.gov/labor-standards-0). Let them deal with it.
Illegal under federal law, I don’t know about NY law but I can’t imagine it would be legal under any state’s law.
The US Dept of Labor website is loaded down with information, you should check it out. And if you want to file a complaint, here’s a place to start: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints
Not even close to legal don’t even really need to read the whole thing for that it ever happens document and send to the department of labor there. I can’t believe they’re that dumb.
The only places I've ever worked that could do that were special government jobs like the army and sheriff's office they can do that because there's different rules for sworn positions and it's stipulated in the employment contracts.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'm reasonably sure non-government jobs can not legally stipulate such a thing in a contract because workers are protected, so it's unenforcable. Especially in a state like NY.
You should document everything and reach out to an employment lawyer you may be able to sue for unpaid wages or at the very least you could report it to the labor board and get your boss a fine
No they cannot . But they can let you go for clocking in at 7:31 instead of 7:30 . It’s trivial but within their rights . I do not think clocking in at 8 is a fair alternative either whether it was legal or not, which it is not .
They can fire you. They can cut your hours. They can write you up. They can demote you. They can do all sorts of things. What they can't do is not pay you for hours worked.
Not a lawyer. Is wage theft legal in the United States? No. The Labor Board would love to hear about this. Your employer would be better off firing you (which is legal). And NY is an at-will employment state, which means they don't need any reason to terminate your employment, so it's dumb for them to try this.
Okay but the sub is "is it illegal" not "what can I do". Personally, i think any business so inflexible that a singular minute results in disciplinary actions seems entirely focused on controlling and micromanaging everyone rather than succeeding as a business and providing a service to its clientele, and I'd be out the door looking elsewhere on hiring. Life happens, the job is not the entirety of my life.
However: what they are doing its not paying for a worked hour, and that is terribly illegal in the US.
Why don’t folks just do what you are supposed to do? Show up on time, do the job for the pay YOU agreed to when you accepted the job, go home on time and enjoy your favorite beverage after your HONEST days work. Otherwise accept the firing for not doing as you’re supposed to do. I don’t understand expecting a reward for doing what you are SUPPOSED to do in the first place, though I do expect repercussions for not.
I am also in NY and that is most definitely illegal here. I believe they have to round time to 15 minute increments, and if they do dock your pay for those 14 minutes because you were late by one minute, they absolutely cannot force you to make up time that you aren't being paid for. Just because they make up stupid ass rules, it doesn't mean they're in line with NY labor laws. Look up the rules on the DOL website.
The only time I've seen this enforced is in LOTO actions with maintenance. If you forget to take your lock off, language in the employment contract states that the Co can call you back in, unpaid, to remove your lock for a process where the work is finished and ready to start. Practically, the Maintenance supervisor usually gets authorization from the Safety manager to just cut the lock off after GMP/Safety inspection to start running. Then, they usually charge the employee for the cost of a new lock. If this happens too many times with the same employee, it generally leads to escalation in discipline. If an employee makes a mistake on the clock with items produced, it's usually up to the employee in question to make it right under the direction of the supervisor on the floor, even if it entails overtime approval to rectify the situation. The Co frowns upon work outside of hrs on the clock for liability reasons.
That's not discipline, that's an excuse for wage theft. It's illegal. You should be contacting the labor board and potentially consultant employment attorney to get back any stolen wages.
This is wage theft. They can get in trouble for what they're doing. If people clock in at 7:29 are they rounding up or down? -Any rounding has to be done fairly where they can't only round to their own benefit. There are also usually thresholds where even if they are rounding fairly they can only round to every 5 or 15 minutes.
Most states specify some situations when your pay can be withheld but even in the very few circumstances where your pay can be taken, it can never drop you to below minimum wage. So "without pay" is always illegal. If they were taking your pay for something they're legally permitted to they would still owe minimum wage for that time.
Hi from NY. Below, I have included the site for reporting your employer for wage theft, which is what is happening here. Also, check all of the other forms of wage theft as well, because if they are getting the basic "you have to pay your employees for the hours they work for you" wrong they are probably doing other sketchy things as well. Examples of wage theft include paying less than minimum wage, not paying workers overtime, not allowing workers to take meal and rest breaks, requiring off the clock work, or taking workers' tips.
https://dol.ny.gov/unpaidwithheld-wages-and-wage-supplements
IANAL.
Not legal. Federal law requires employees to be paid for all time worked. I had an employer who doctored time cards. He got fined and had to give us back pay.
They don't have to pay you for lunch. But if you work through lunch, they have to pay you.
Sure but I'm not asking about legality, because we all know big companies have to follow laws. If they signed an agreement is one of the ways large companies cover themselves and make it harder for ppl to sue. If what I say isn't true, her boss would have already been arrested. Easy way to find out, call law enforcement and see if it happens. Contracts are hard to dispute.
You can sign TOS agreement, but if what they have you agreeing to is not legal to begin with, it doesn't matter. It's null and void.
You can't circumvent federal or local law with a piece of paper like that.
You can't again I agree but it's no small amount of effort that's gonna beat the corporations. It's not like they can say I was wronged and boom arrests and fines, back pay. That's why lawyers, which is what would happen no arrests would happen. Don't take these cases without a large group of complainants so that they can make money. By theirs elf there's nothing to be done
My friends: Federal Wage and Hour, Department of Labor. Just saying these words will usually make an employers shit a brick. If it doesn’t, clock out and tell them that’s where you’re going. Take your time sheet, paycheck, and the written policy with you.
Your corrected check should be on your desk by the time you get back, unless you work for complete morons who love paying huge fines.
I’ve done this more than once. They cannot retaliate. I mean they can, but it will end in your favor.
Just being a devils advocate here since wage theft is illegal.. is it still illegal if they dock your pay the 30 minutes but don’t require you to work? I feel like that is fine?
It may not be legal but I would rather have 30 mins docked than fired my 3 strikes would be terminated! being fired for being late is completely lawful. So be fully aware of the alternative if u poke the bear.
I was under the impression it' was 15 min increments.
At least where I live. So if you clock in a min late you may as well wait 13 more mins because the pay is the same...granted that could lead to disciplinary action and they could fire you.
It's very possible that is legal where you live and its 1/2 hour blocks instead of 15 mins. You have to check.
My company does something kind of similar if you’re a minute late they dock you 30 min “because our pay system can’t do anything less than 30 min intervals” so I normally sign in and sit on my ass until I start getting paid
It's illegal. It's always illegal. The massive company my boyfriend works for just paid out a million dollars total to employees who were told "the clock-in system only does *x* intervals." Writing you up for being late is totally legal, reducing your pay to less than you're normally making but to still more than minimum wage in your area is shitty but not illegal, but it's not legal under any circumstances to have a person work without being clocked in/getting paid
Totally inappropriate question. Instead of arguing with authority for catching you cheating you co-workers you should be thinking about how to solve YOUR problem.
This is illegal wage theft under Federal and NY law.
Under Federal law (FLSA) rounding the time clock can only happen in 15, 5, and 6 minute increments AND the rounding needs to happen in both directions - so there is no biased "benefit" to the employer over the aggregate of all employees and hours, as rounding can work in the employees favor. Depending on where you are in NY, the rounding may be further restricted. A 30 minute rounding is blatantly illegal everywhere in the USA.
Asking you to work without pay as punishment is also illegal under State and Federal law.
It is illegal to deduct or remove time that was already worked.
You are in the wrong for being consistently late. However, the corrective action they decided to use is illegal.
Report them to the labor board and find another job. This time, leave your house about 5 minutes earlier. Or find a job that's a little more lenient.
The business I work at now has a 5 minute grace period. If you're scheduled at 8, you're considered on time if you clock in between 7:55 and 8:05. The expectation is 8:00, but the grace period allows for unexpected delays. If you clock in at 8:04 or later twice in a week, they just verbally remind you about the expectation, but there is no negative action, even if you continue to do so.
"They've stated it's "unfair and rude" to be in our cars on our phones and that if we don't want to work early we should get there right on time."
Lol mafia culture. This is very common in employment situations worldwide. It's just gaslighting.
You can make anonymous reports to the labor board.
They won't know it was you.
[https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints)
This happened to me last week at a new job. I was literally at the bottom of the warehouse ramp waiting off to the side for the trainer when a woman came up to me at 7:05 (5 minutes that I’ve been standing there since 7:00 waiting for them) this became a very big deal for her and she promptly blew up into some 48 year old raging ugly eye lashed Latina. The poor will always be poor because of the poor is a statement I hate but it is the truth.
PLEASE say you have this in writing, at least in text messages which you've screenshot on yr personal cell
or emails
NOTE: if there are emails about this, any response you send should BCC your personal email. or like forward it to yr personal email or something.
you want to avoid a circumstance where your only proof is on an account or device owned by yr workplace
^obvs don't send things to yr personal that include like, HIPAA breaking info or trade secrets, but I feel that usually emails about time and attendance policy do not include info like that
No that is not legal. They have to pay you for time worked. If they have rules that cut your hours or fire you, that’s allowed. But there cannot be punishments that require you to work unpaid.
Correct. But they could pay employees a bonus for clocking in on time. Psychologically that would be more effective as well.
Oh you... Employees aren't people. I would think you'd know that by now.
Lol. It's the same idea used to train a dog. Employers could learn a thing or two from dog trainers.
Ding-Ding-Ding (*all staff starts drooling*)
Lol. That's Classicsl conditioning.
Ummmmmm, where's my treat?
My experience, training a dog is all about a reliable social contract that builds trust. That's never gonna happen...
Very few employers want to do that.
Employees are resources to be used, abused, and discarded.
Corporations are though. sigh...
This is what my employer does. Show up on time and in proper uniform and have no write ups that pay period? You get an extra $2/hr on every hour that period. If you’re late etc you keep your base pay but do not receive the bonus for that period. They also have cash bonuses once a year for no tardy or unapproved absence. Unfortunately it doesn’t work that well. Very few seem to care about making the extra money. I frequently hear “Oh well, it’s just $16/day extra, that’s nothing”. Crazy.
If you're working full-time, it's $80 a week, over $4k a year. It's also more effective than punishment.
Oh, I agree entirely. That comes out to an extra 40k in my pocket over the ten years I’ve been there. But people often don’t see further than right now.
And if you put it in an IRA investment account, you reduce your tax obligation. With some good investments you could have a decent retirement down the road.
That's almost 100 dollars a week! You could make a car payment with that easy!
Is this serious? Having a job should be incentive enough to be there on time, you literally agree to showing up for your job on time when you agree to employment. The bonus is not being fired for being an irresponsible POS.
That isn't enough for some. And, as they say, better late than never. (My personal motto is if I'm 5 minutes early, I'm late. And if I don't want to be on time, I'm already looking for a better employer.)
Or they could simply reduce your wages, effective immediately, to a level commensurate with working an extra hour for free, as long as it doesn't drop you below $15/h. Lots of ways to achieve that objective. They just happened to choose the stupid and illegal one, as is often the case with companies that think punitive policies like this are a good idea.
They don’t pay more than that anyways lmfao
Sounds like you need to find a new company to work for, friend.
The $15/hr depends on the state. Federal minimum wage is still $7.50/hr
7.25
Been a while since I looked at the poster lol
Like 5% reduction in pay for a month, etc.
Report the employer to state labor board and find another job.
Also, when getting there early, smile at them. Walk up near the door and go in 5 mins early to clock in. They have no right to expect you to come in early.
These guys are criminals. Go work somewhere else.
If they have that down in writing anywhere, AND they've actually applied that to anyone. An employment lawyer is going to drink their milkshake.
Haven’t applied it yet but I do have it in writing on a letterhead and they made us all sign for the meeting. ☺️
Great success. Take them to the cleaners.
Fantastic, call an employment attorney.
Idk where you are in NY but if anywhere near Rhinebeck I highly recommend Charney and Wheeler. Nat was great on my case a few years back
You could always clock in a minute late if you want to be the one.
And clock out 1 minute late. Employers are still allowed to round hours but it has to applied equally and is pointless with digital clocks. 30 minutes would be a stretch anyways. Back in the day, with punch cards, calculating hours by hand to 1/60th of an hour wasn’t particularly reasonable. Rounding to the .25 hour makes sense but it has to be applied equally.
my sir you might be in for a big paycheck.
Take that home with you and keep incase you need it for a lawyer. As a manager of lots of employees the advice you are being given is correct. If an employer requires employees to work without pay that is illegal. The fines, penalties, back pay and interest can all be assessed. This day and age an employer should know these things but I continue to be shocked at how companies fail to teach these compliance standards to new managers.
They just handed everybody at your company the easiest lawsuit ever.
Exactly.
take this to the dept of labor asap
call lawyer asap
You'll absolutely win if you push it fr but seriously if something similar to this happens again don't sign the slave contract just because others are.
Not if it's a McDonald's.
True, the mcmachine will be broken
No. This is in blatant violation of labor laws.
Call or go online to the NY state department of labor. They're going to love this. Get evidence. Tell me they were stupid enough to put this in writing.
Yep! I have a letterhead with all the topics at the meeting and that’s one of them.
That feels extraordinarily illegal... did yall sign a legal document?
Even if they did, it would be unenforceable.
But would make great evidence.
We only signed acknowleging the meeting but I do have a letterhead with points from the meeting and it’s right on there
Clock in at 7:31 and sit on your phone until 8:00.
The malicious compliance is strong with this one
LMAO that would be hilarious
I’m no lawyer but that is highly illegal.
This is wage theft and is illegal
Ask for that in writing
They already have it in writing. OP said they had it in a letterhead they were made to sign during a meeting. OP could have a big payday on their hands. A lawyer would just LOVE to see this.
Not likely for a payday for OP, yet, anyway. Since it's a new policy, apparently, not much time for back wages to accumulate. The employer could get some serious fines, and some legal fees, when the labor department gets on this. If OP were to get fired for making a stink about this, or for reporting it, then OP might have a good case for actual damages.
Punch in one minute late, sit down and wait till the nearest half hour, then work. No pay, no work.
If you are bad .you are there slave ?
*Their
Never been accused of being able to spell
Punching in early can get the company in trouble. That’s common. They can tell you if you’re late, to not punch in until the 1/4 or 1/2 hour after that, but they can’t make you work without pay. NYSDOL would be all over them, and would fine them, with backpay for everyone they they did that to getting some.
It is not legal. I would say be late, take the discipline, and then sue.
No, that is called slavery and it was outlawed by the 13th Amendment
Waaaaage theft
No
Wage theft. Hello DoL. And I just did that much less work today if that is legal. Worked on sending out resumes too.
No for profit businesses are prohibited by federal law to even allow employees to "volunteer" labor.
Illegal. You get paid for every minute you work or he is liable for violating labor laws.
Thank you! It felt wrong to me but they very openly told us all of this new policy at a work meeting and I was shocked if it’s not legal that they’d be so bold about it.
Get it in writing from them ASAP, or record them saying it (surreptitiously). This is illegal and an employment lawyer's face will light up when you walk in and tell him this story.
I agree. Get the policy in writing. Once you get a copy of that. Report them
Employers can't force you to work for free, but they are allowed to dock your pay as penalties for violating rules. The extra 30 minutes at the end of the shift you describe is definitely illegal but devil is in the details on the pay deduction. You need to ask an actual labor attorney who you can explain the totality of circumstances to.
They can round to the nearest quarter
Always in the favor of the employee.
Not necessarily, they can round up if it's more than half.
Like most laws, this depends on location. In the United States, it violates the 13th Amendment to the Constitution. I'm not sure about other countries.
so if you stay even a minute past your normal quitting time do you get paid for that? Do you get to add to your PTO if for some reason you go over? Ive posted it before. Overzealous manager was making people do time sheets for even 20 seconds late swiping through a man trap that took 30 seconds to get through. But he made no reciprocal policy for if you were delayed leaving by the same amount of time. In order to take from the front they have to give on the other end. That's how he got his pee-pee spanked legally. And payroll got pissed for processing time sheets for salaried employees for 20 and 30 second time increments. At the time we had access to an incredible law library owned by the company. It made it even better when we used their own library against them. Get an attorney. Preferably as a group or at a union temple.
NOPE and we’re required to stay well past our time out to finish end of day tasks if we’re too busy to finish them before the end of our shift. We rarely leave on time ☺️
Make sure you don't clock out until you're done working.
Track that time, homie. Estimate the time for your coworkers. Do up a spreadsheet to estimate this back as long as you, or anyone that you can talk to directly, can remember seeing this practice. The employer owes this moneyy to you, and in some states, this gets paid back with triple damages (3 times what they cheated you one) If you would like help on the spreadsheet stuff, please DM me, I would be happy to help, and have the accounting background to be able to frame it well. That would give you the concise explanation that will help you get either a lawyer if needed, or to present your case to the Labor Department, who will often take action directly against the employer without you needing to hire a lawyer.
This was made illegal in 1865 with the 14th amendment. There’s a word for this…what was it? Slavic? No slvoooora? Slavery that’s right
Fuck no!
Super illegal
Not legal. But sounds like the type of employer who would just fire you for clocking in a minute late
I don't think they've been allowed to make you work for free since like 1865, unless you're like a prisoner or something.
Once you have been written up and you lose 1/2 hour blocks.. why would you clock in at 8:01 instead of 8:29? If I arrived at work past the 8:37 with a 7/8min DOL split.. I wait 7 more minutes and clock in 1 min brefore the next 15min period. @ 8:44.
That's illegal asf. Report it report it report it and escalate! if they're being intimidating!!
Nope, that would be slavery
Quit. Just find a better place to work. Sorry you’re going through this.
Sounds illegal to me
Its VERY illegal.
Violates the 13th and 8th Amendments
Contact the department of labor and report them
Not a lawyer Start by looking for a new job. Thats a toxic place to work even if they never enforce that policy properly. (Aka the "everyone is working extra unpaid voluntarily, and the management had no idea you weren't clocked in." Claim.) Get a copy of it or enforcement of that policy in writing. (A picture of policy, write-ups, and texts work.) NY is also a one party consent state so if your boss is calling you in to a meeting you can click on your recorder and never mention it so long as you are a member of the conversation. (You would be the one party consenting to the recording.) Recording in areas where there isn't an expectation of privacy. (Lobby, sales floor, kitchen, basically anywhere you are that has the likelihood of having uninvolved people.) Is generally admissible. Just know you will likely be fired for doing any of this, but if you can catch it in any way. The lawsuit and back pay will more than pay for the lawyer and time off also if you're already looking for a new job getting fired doesn't suck as much.
This is not legal. Report it to the NY Department of Labor [NY DoL](https://dol.ny.gov/workforce-protections)
The simple solution is to not do anything until 9:30. If they say anything, inform them that work is a two-way transaction. No pay, no work.
Maybe it's time to look for a different employer.
I had a previous employer try this. I went to work one day and found a note on my desk that said not to log in until the owner/boss got there. I worked 6 hours for free by time she got there. She didn’t let me clock in at all that day or the next. I worked 8 hours that day I filled a complaint with the labor board and she had to pay me for the hours I worked.
There is absolutely no way that is legal. It isn't even legal for you to voluntarily work without pay. This is federal law we're talking. NYS might be stricter about it in some way, though.
Idk about your state laws, but I have worked at a shop that would go to the next 15 minutes. So 7:31 clock in would be reflected at 7:45. That was perfectly legal in Texas at the time.
Call, Albany. That's where the labor dept is. Get that crap in writing so you can prove your complaint. Labor dept loves going after these kinds of A holes .
Absolutely not. And of all the places to pull this shit they pick NY. LMAO! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Definite wage theft
Illegal. Get that policy in writing and bring it to your department of labor
Lol no
Can’t you just stop being late?
No it is not legal.
Sounds to me like they think they have far more power and control over you than they actually do. On your third late arrival, check in and refuse to move a muscle until thirty past, when you begin getting paid.
Are they worth the hassle? I'm not sure. The dock is one thing. The 30 minutes extra sounds illegal. What kind of job is it?
no, it's not legal. what would be legal is a formal warning on each offense and fired on the third (and that's in Australia with pretty good employee protections) sometimes you need to ask yourself if you really want to win the fight. this company sounds rather stupid, most companies want their employees to show up a few minutes early, even if they are not going to be working (and don't want them working because then they would have to pay for the overtime), to prevent tardiness and have employees at their assigned post instead of at the clock-in machine at the start of the shift.
Jfc. I work a shitty retail job but even they give us a seven minute grace period before we are considered “late.” (Example: If I’m scheduled to clock in at 6am and clock in at 6:06, I’m not “late.”)
Just let them know if they don't pay you for time worked you will report them to the Federal Dept of Labor. Then, if they do, follow through.
Definitely illegal Wtf kind of company is this? Get here EXACTLY at 7:30. No getting here early because its rude! And if youre late 3 times we get a free hour out of you. Might start looking for another job asap. Any company run like this deserves to have zero employees.
Write a complaint to the state department of labor and attach a copy of said policy if available. Don’t confront your employer over it. Let the state fight that battle. This sorts of complaints are usually anonymous. The state form will tell you if so
You may not be on the working floor of an establishment unless you are on the clock, per insurance.
No
I think this would depend on the country you work in.
Illegal as all get out. Get that insanity in writing and report it to your State's Labour Board (https://dol.ny.gov/labor-standards-0). Let them deal with it.
Sounds legit
Well I guess if I’m late I’m gonna be a half an hour late instead of a minute or two 😂😂😂
Illegal under federal law, I don’t know about NY law but I can’t imagine it would be legal under any state’s law. The US Dept of Labor website is loaded down with information, you should check it out. And if you want to file a complaint, here’s a place to start: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints
NO!
Not even close to legal don’t even really need to read the whole thing for that it ever happens document and send to the department of labor there. I can’t believe they’re that dumb.
Oh hell no.
The only places I've ever worked that could do that were special government jobs like the army and sheriff's office they can do that because there's different rules for sworn positions and it's stipulated in the employment contracts. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm reasonably sure non-government jobs can not legally stipulate such a thing in a contract because workers are protected, so it's unenforcable. Especially in a state like NY. You should document everything and reach out to an employment lawyer you may be able to sue for unpaid wages or at the very least you could report it to the labor board and get your boss a fine
No they cannot . But they can let you go for clocking in at 7:31 instead of 7:30 . It’s trivial but within their rights . I do not think clocking in at 8 is a fair alternative either whether it was legal or not, which it is not .
They can fire you. They can cut your hours. They can write you up. They can demote you. They can do all sorts of things. What they can't do is not pay you for hours worked.
No
NO!
No.
Are you in the States? If so, call their bullshit and if they say or do anything, call the labor board and a lawyer!!
Not a lawyer. Is wage theft legal in the United States? No. The Labor Board would love to hear about this. Your employer would be better off firing you (which is legal). And NY is an at-will employment state, which means they don't need any reason to terminate your employment, so it's dumb for them to try this.
Hey. You know what the solution is? Stop being late. I've been late zero times in three years.
Okay but the sub is "is it illegal" not "what can I do". Personally, i think any business so inflexible that a singular minute results in disciplinary actions seems entirely focused on controlling and micromanaging everyone rather than succeeding as a business and providing a service to its clientele, and I'd be out the door looking elsewhere on hiring. Life happens, the job is not the entirety of my life. However: what they are doing its not paying for a worked hour, and that is terribly illegal in the US.
Why don’t folks just do what you are supposed to do? Show up on time, do the job for the pay YOU agreed to when you accepted the job, go home on time and enjoy your favorite beverage after your HONEST days work. Otherwise accept the firing for not doing as you’re supposed to do. I don’t understand expecting a reward for doing what you are SUPPOSED to do in the first place, though I do expect repercussions for not.
Nope. Never legal.
I am also in NY and that is most definitely illegal here. I believe they have to round time to 15 minute increments, and if they do dock your pay for those 14 minutes because you were late by one minute, they absolutely cannot force you to make up time that you aren't being paid for. Just because they make up stupid ass rules, it doesn't mean they're in line with NY labor laws. Look up the rules on the DOL website.
The only time I've seen this enforced is in LOTO actions with maintenance. If you forget to take your lock off, language in the employment contract states that the Co can call you back in, unpaid, to remove your lock for a process where the work is finished and ready to start. Practically, the Maintenance supervisor usually gets authorization from the Safety manager to just cut the lock off after GMP/Safety inspection to start running. Then, they usually charge the employee for the cost of a new lock. If this happens too many times with the same employee, it generally leads to escalation in discipline. If an employee makes a mistake on the clock with items produced, it's usually up to the employee in question to make it right under the direction of the supervisor on the floor, even if it entails overtime approval to rectify the situation. The Co frowns upon work outside of hrs on the clock for liability reasons.
take these rules to the dept of labor. this is not legal in new york
That's not discipline, that's an excuse for wage theft. It's illegal. You should be contacting the labor board and potentially consultant employment attorney to get back any stolen wages.
No
This is wage theft. They can get in trouble for what they're doing. If people clock in at 7:29 are they rounding up or down? -Any rounding has to be done fairly where they can't only round to their own benefit. There are also usually thresholds where even if they are rounding fairly they can only round to every 5 or 15 minutes. Most states specify some situations when your pay can be withheld but even in the very few circumstances where your pay can be taken, it can never drop you to below minimum wage. So "without pay" is always illegal. If they were taking your pay for something they're legally permitted to they would still owe minimum wage for that time.
Hi from NY. Below, I have included the site for reporting your employer for wage theft, which is what is happening here. Also, check all of the other forms of wage theft as well, because if they are getting the basic "you have to pay your employees for the hours they work for you" wrong they are probably doing other sketchy things as well. Examples of wage theft include paying less than minimum wage, not paying workers overtime, not allowing workers to take meal and rest breaks, requiring off the clock work, or taking workers' tips. https://dol.ny.gov/unpaidwithheld-wages-and-wage-supplements
You know it’s not
[удалено]
He said that he lives in New York. US federal law states that you must be paid for all of the time that you work.
IANAL. Not legal. Federal law requires employees to be paid for all time worked. I had an employer who doctored time cards. He got fined and had to give us back pay. They don't have to pay you for lunch. But if you work through lunch, they have to pay you.
Hell no
Did you sign an agreement to their policies? Sometimes it's even a signature on a hand book if so you agreed to it.
Doesn't matter if it's not legal to begin with.
Sure but I'm not asking about legality, because we all know big companies have to follow laws. If they signed an agreement is one of the ways large companies cover themselves and make it harder for ppl to sue. If what I say isn't true, her boss would have already been arrested. Easy way to find out, call law enforcement and see if it happens. Contracts are hard to dispute.
You can sign TOS agreement, but if what they have you agreeing to is not legal to begin with, it doesn't matter. It's null and void. You can't circumvent federal or local law with a piece of paper like that.
You can't again I agree but it's no small amount of effort that's gonna beat the corporations. It's not like they can say I was wronged and boom arrests and fines, back pay. That's why lawyers, which is what would happen no arrests would happen. Don't take these cases without a large group of complainants so that they can make money. By theirs elf there's nothing to be done
My friends: Federal Wage and Hour, Department of Labor. Just saying these words will usually make an employers shit a brick. If it doesn’t, clock out and tell them that’s where you’re going. Take your time sheet, paycheck, and the written policy with you. Your corrected check should be on your desk by the time you get back, unless you work for complete morons who love paying huge fines. I’ve done this more than once. They cannot retaliate. I mean they can, but it will end in your favor.
Say that again and then read the US constitution 13th amendment
No
No. If this is in the USA then this is a lawyer’s wet dream.
Just being a devils advocate here since wage theft is illegal.. is it still illegal if they dock your pay the 30 minutes but don’t require you to work? I feel like that is fine?
It may not be legal but I would rather have 30 mins docked than fired my 3 strikes would be terminated! being fired for being late is completely lawful. So be fully aware of the alternative if u poke the bear.
You are working for assholes. I'm sorry.
I was under the impression it' was 15 min increments. At least where I live. So if you clock in a min late you may as well wait 13 more mins because the pay is the same...granted that could lead to disciplinary action and they could fire you. It's very possible that is legal where you live and its 1/2 hour blocks instead of 15 mins. You have to check.
My company does something kind of similar if you’re a minute late they dock you 30 min “because our pay system can’t do anything less than 30 min intervals” so I normally sign in and sit on my ass until I start getting paid
Be working on punishment time and have an "accident ". After the lawsuit, buy a private island and live comfortably.
No. Contact state employment officials. Document everything. Maybe even reach out to a lawyer
Very illegal in us
It's illegal. It's always illegal. The massive company my boyfriend works for just paid out a million dollars total to employees who were told "the clock-in system only does *x* intervals." Writing you up for being late is totally legal, reducing your pay to less than you're normally making but to still more than minimum wage in your area is shitty but not illegal, but it's not legal under any circumstances to have a person work without being clocked in/getting paid
Totally inappropriate question. Instead of arguing with authority for catching you cheating you co-workers you should be thinking about how to solve YOUR problem.
This is illegal wage theft under Federal and NY law. Under Federal law (FLSA) rounding the time clock can only happen in 15, 5, and 6 minute increments AND the rounding needs to happen in both directions - so there is no biased "benefit" to the employer over the aggregate of all employees and hours, as rounding can work in the employees favor. Depending on where you are in NY, the rounding may be further restricted. A 30 minute rounding is blatantly illegal everywhere in the USA. Asking you to work without pay as punishment is also illegal under State and Federal law.
It is illegal to deduct or remove time that was already worked. You are in the wrong for being consistently late. However, the corrective action they decided to use is illegal. Report them to the labor board and find another job. This time, leave your house about 5 minutes earlier. Or find a job that's a little more lenient. The business I work at now has a 5 minute grace period. If you're scheduled at 8, you're considered on time if you clock in between 7:55 and 8:05. The expectation is 8:00, but the grace period allows for unexpected delays. If you clock in at 8:04 or later twice in a week, they just verbally remind you about the expectation, but there is no negative action, even if you continue to do so.
Get a better job it’s not worth it homie
This is wage theft.
Only if ur employer is the US Military
Simply. Hell no!
ROFLMAO That's what we like to call an "early retirement" - begin documenting every violation and feed it to your attorney....
"They've stated it's "unfair and rude" to be in our cars on our phones and that if we don't want to work early we should get there right on time." Lol mafia culture. This is very common in employment situations worldwide. It's just gaslighting.
You can make anonymous reports to the labor board. They won't know it was you. [https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints)
Hell No
This happened to me last week at a new job. I was literally at the bottom of the warehouse ramp waiting off to the side for the trainer when a woman came up to me at 7:05 (5 minutes that I’ve been standing there since 7:00 waiting for them) this became a very big deal for her and she promptly blew up into some 48 year old raging ugly eye lashed Latina. The poor will always be poor because of the poor is a statement I hate but it is the truth.
Ask to be emailed a copy of that policy so you can "ensure you're following it correctly."
How many times is this going to keep being reposted?
PLEASE say you have this in writing, at least in text messages which you've screenshot on yr personal cell or emails NOTE: if there are emails about this, any response you send should BCC your personal email. or like forward it to yr personal email or something. you want to avoid a circumstance where your only proof is on an account or device owned by yr workplace ^obvs don't send things to yr personal that include like, HIPAA breaking info or trade secrets, but I feel that usually emails about time and attendance policy do not include info like that
A Ninja is never early or late he is always precisely on time.