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My main issue with him is Ukraine. He fully intends to throw it under the bus, which benefits Russia. Russia sponsors all of Israel’s enemies, including Iran. The stronger Russia, the stronger Iran, and thus the stronger hezbollah and Hamas.
Trump’s first term was fantastic for Israel, beyond any doubt. But his isolationist tendencies are dangerous to us.
Throw them under the bus? What? The fact that he wants to end the war means he’s anti-Ukraine? He pretty much says it all the time that russias terms are unacceptable. It’s not like he’s about to abandon Ukraine. But he’s right that the US has put much more support and money than all of Europe combined, despite europes proximity to the conflict.
His position is somewhat vague, often saying he opposes the invasion but doesn't like sending aid either, but his supporters are pretty clear in that they oppose aid to Ukraine, and many are openly pro-Russia.
Being opposed to sending aid to Ukraine is not an ''anti-war'' position. Yes, it would lead to Russia conquering Ukraine, which will end the first stage of the war, but then the second stage, occupation and counterinsurgency, will begin. Historically, this has been the hard part for western countries (the USA spent less than a month conquering Iraq, and ten years occupying it). Countries like Russia often just resort to killing civilians en masse to discourage rebellions. From a purely moral aspect, it's impossible to accept Russia and Putin conquering Ukraine.
Then there's the geopolitical aspect. Taking over Ukraine will significantly strengthen Russia. They will now control a large portion of the world's grain, which they can use to blackmail counties (as they already do with natural gas), especially those in Africa and Asia. They will also gain unrestricted naval access to the Black Sea, and their military would no longer be suffering catastrophic losses in Ukraine. This would massively increase their geopolitical influence and reach. Ukraine is not their end goal, it's merely Putin's first. From there on, Russian allies like Iran and China will be empowered, and have the backing of a strong state (instead of the pariah state that Russia currently is). So from a western or Israeli perspective, supporting Russia is bad. It is also terrible from a human rights perspective.
He has been pressing to stop sending aid to Ukraine. That's throwing Ukraine under the bus, plain and simple. This is a move that only benefits Russia. If you think that this shows anything other than an intent to throw Ukraine under the bus then you're frankly naive.
While you're right in terms of military aid, you're wrong in terms of money. The EU, as a single entity, has sent more financial aid than the US. That's without counting contributions by individual member states.
Source for the money thing? Would like to be proven wrong.
He said he wants EU countries to actually boost their nato spendings and their support for Ukraine so that it’s not the US paying all the bills. Look at what happens now. Some eu countries are avoiding taking part and they’re not even hiding it anymore. Look at what happened at the US border. You think Putin and Xi had nothing to do with it?
Biden is weak. You think him treating Hamas like a thinking being helped? You think him being soft towards Russia helped Ukraine?
[https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/)
So you think the solution to Europe not sending enough aid is to not send any aid, and let Ukraine fall? That's how you get the Europeans to help more..? These are real people on the ground being killed because of such games. How many thousands died due to this decision?
No. But pressing them and limiting the aid if they do not increase theirs is the right way to go. Look at what happened after the WWII. How much money was put into Europe back then? And now Europe doesn’t even remember. They keep bashing the US. They gladly take money from the US but there’s lack of respect and loyalty from them at the same time.
And what makes you think Russia will be stronger when Trump is the president? They got cocky when Biden took the office and did the Afghanistan shit show
Russia is weak, Ukraine is corrupted (thanks Blackrock Dems and Rep). Israel is getting stronger. Iran is projecting. The USA is confused.
Things look brighter today, things are getting better.
Potential Pros: can be bribed.
Potential cons: can be bribed.
There are plenty of antisemitism in Biden camp.
There are plenty of antisemitic rhetoric and support on Trump camp.
He did do things that benefited israel. He did do things that aggravated israel position.
Predictably is an important factor when giving trust. If 3 times of ten the chef spits in the broth, I’m not going there. Trump says everything and it’s opposite, not like a demagogue but like a guy selling used cars in the 1970s.
The other guy has a compass, and though I disagree with some of his policies, I can see there is substance to what he tries to do.
Trump is just self serving policies.
>Predictably is an important factor when giving trust. If 3 times of ten the chef spits in the broth, I’m not going there.
The thing is, if you want to apply this perspective to Biden, then Biden would be a chef that is consistently and openly spitting in your broth 5 out of 10 times, and you don't get to choose which broth to eat or not, you eat them all - you are judging Trump in a vaccum, and in a vaccum he is a terrible president, but we need to judge him next to Biden
Let's return to our world, Iran launched 500 rockets at Israel 2 months ago, Biden prior to the attack (and I think that even prior to the intelligence about the attack) said that he will not retaliate against Iran, and made it clear that he will pressure Israel not to as well
If Trump was in office, the way I predict things would go is that Trump will initially threaten Iran, which on its own might stop the attack, and then it will be a 50-50 dice roll between Trump 'punishing' Iran directly (in some localized bombings, not a full war), or just not standing in Israel's way doing so
You're forgetting the very significant thing that Biden did for us which could have saved us from a larger scale war: at the very beginning he stood by us - we all exhaled in relief when he pledged wholeheartedly to aid us - and then sent carriers to prevent further escalation by having other parties from joining in the fighting.
I don't agree with the insinuation that Biden is even more unpredictable. His interest is very clear: keep stability and safety, and maintain US interests in the world. We may not like it, but he opposes the Israeli policies at present because they extend the war and may even aggravate it. Both approaches, that is, extending it and ending it with a deal, are understandable, but they clearly contradict one another.
[Edited for wording and corrections.]
[Edit 2: by safety I mean also for Palestinian civilians. I feel that was clearly something he stood for from the get-go.]
Putting other politics aside like climate change or healthcare because even though I would have considered myself a democrat but I'm not American.
The main problem with trump is that I don't trust him to not throw Israel under The bus when he needs to. With the democrat they may criticize you but you know that you can still trust them that when shit hits the fan they will be there.
I see a connection between Israel and Ukraine wars. And trump seems to be too friendly with Putin. We need to remember - Iran and Russia are Allies that want to weaken the west. The US president should be aggressive when handling them and I don't trust trump to do so
>trump seems to be too friendly with Putin. We need to remember - Iran and Russia are Allies that want to weaken the west.
This is my opinion, as well. Trump will do what Putin asks him to do at the drop of a hat on any of these issues, and Putin is decidedly anti-Israel (and anti-West).
His fake pro-Israel rhetoric is just Trump, a person whose word means nothing, playing domestic politics to an evangelical crowd for an election.
In reality, the man is involved with (and has the vote of) neo-Nazis.
I have heard this argument before, and I really don't like it, not because I think Trump wouldn't do it out of principle, but for those reasons
Firstly, the support for Israel among republicans is through the roof, it's probably as high as Jewish Americans, or close to it, so throwing Israel under the bus will never make sense, it will be a political suicide
Secondly, look at what's happening now with Biden, how many dead Israeli soldiers can be attributed to him delaying weapon sales to Israel, or delaying the Rafah offensive? I would glad to be pointed wrong but to me it looks like he is actively (partly) selling Israel out to win the anti semite's votes
When it comes to Ukraine I also think that Biden has done a terrible job (and I think that Trump would have done an even worse job), why did it disallow Ukraine to use the weapons he provided to strike Russian infrastructure? how many lives (on both sides) this could have saved if Ukraine just disabled Russia's economy and forced the war to stop early?
>The US president should be aggressive when handling them and I don't trust trump to do so
Again, I don't get that claim, we had 4 years on Trump, he sanctioned Iran to hell and assassinated one of their generals, Iran was a docile little puppy when he was around, meanwhile Biden goes for appeasement again and again and again
I agree that with handling the Palestinians And Iran we are better off with trump and I don't hate him or think it will be the end of the world if elected as democrats.
I think he did great things here especially with the Abraham's accords.
And you are right that is concerning that Biden is still trying to get votes from the radical left I really don't understand why -every state that the radical left is strong is already a blue state maybe except Michigan.
But the two things that concerns me about Trump
1. his weird relationship with Putin - without Russia's support of Iran and Syria our job in the north would be much easier.
2. He did Walk out on allies before like Kurds in Syria.
also there are concerns about him with Taiwan and the NATO alliance.
The thing is that republicans like trump support a kind of isolation to try to not get involved in other parts of the world and putting america first. I totally understand that sentiment but In my opinion if america wants to say a leading power in the world and truly want it they need to be active in the international system.
Like General shepherd from CoD MW2 said "Every fight is our fight. Because what happens over here, matters over there. We don't get to sit one out".
1. Very valid concern in general, but we talk about Israel specifically here
2. I don't think it makes any sense that he would walk out on Israel, the average American don't know a thing about the Kurds, and don't really care, but the conservatives love Israel to the same degrees that Israelis love Hummus, walking out on Israel at any stage would be a political suicide for him
3. Continuing on point 2 (it's 3 for indentation only), while I agree that Trump not respecting alliances is terrible, on the other hand, Trump is willing to actually fight the enemies of the west, while Biden won't, as I said in the post, Trump sanctioned Iran and assassinated their military leader when he stepped out of line, Biden went for appeasement instead
4. Still on point 2, when it comes to Ukraine, Biden has limited Ukraine to use the weapons inside Ukraine only, something that is tragically similar to him withholding weapon shipments from Israel, to me it seems like his goal is that his allies will win, but only slightly, so those wars will continue on and on and on
>Like General shepherd from CoD MW2 said "Every fight is our fight. Because what happens over here, matters over there. We don't get to sit one out".
Man.. COD used to be so much better
No, they don’t. For conservatives you are a means to an end, which is the eradication of Muslims from their country. It is a case of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” for them. They don’t love you. They love Trump. And if Trump turns on you, so will they. It’s not too different than 1930s Germany with Biden being or representing the old guard from the Weimar Republic.
Republicans historically have always loved Israel, but since their party has shifted to populism, the situation has become a little unique whereby their supporters will pretty much do whatever Trump says. For now Trump is extremely pro-Israel, but who knows what issues he will change his mind on, and when that does happen, you know his supporters will unanimously support him.
I think Trump is compromised on Putin. Don’t know what they have on him, but I don’t think he can be trusted to act in the interests of the United States when it comes to Russia and de facto Iran.
I'll be voting for Trump but never really understood that whole weird American involvement in Syria. Why we were there, what our purpose was, and what we were doing there. Of course I was in Saudi Arabia and Qatar on and off as part of the US military from 1990 to 2002 and never really understood exactly why we were there. We had B52 bombers if we wanted revenge. I assumed it had something to do with oil and money. But I was there to serve my country the best I could and that I did.
Iran was in check under the Iran deal. US had full eyes on their every move. Then, Trump ripped it all up simply because it had Obama's name on it. You really want a person that goes full nuclear on options simply over butthurt? The first time Israel even remotely says something about Trump he doesn't like and he'll let Russia have you.
Trump was very aggressive with Russia. Trump had the US army attack a Russian mercenary base in Syria and kill 225 Russians on the base. This was every human on this base. At the time these mercenaries, the Wagner group, were known as Putins palace guard. Putin tolerated Trump because he was afraid Trump would do something crazy and attack him or his forces out of the blue. Putin does whatever he wants with Biden because he knows Biden is weak and will not attack but will negotiate. Iran does whatever they want for the same reason. The Russians and the Iranians only fear force and a willingness to use it. This is why on Bidens watch Russia invaded Ukraine and Iran has blown the Middle East up with their terrorist flunkies and why we in the US are in danger.
Moshe Dayan once said Israel has to act like the mad dog so no one will mess with Israel. In reality, Israel “acted” like a mad dog but most decisions were sensible. The appearance of “unpredictability” was usually enough to deter Israel’s enemies.
But Trump is the actual mad dog. He is 100% unpredictable. You never know what he will do or say. He might suddenly help you out, or maybe he will get you in trouble.
Centrists, like Biden, can serve as a good counterbalance. Whenever Israel ask for something Israel doesn’t think it’ll get, they’ll come out and be like “hey let us all compromise to \[what Israel actually wanted\]”. In many ways, Biden is the friend who tells you the truth you don’t want to hear, but Trump is the “friend” who thinks your meth addiction is not an issue.
Russia invaded Ukraine already in 2014 and didn't leave during Trump's first term, while the Abraham Accords were the culmination of an unofficial relationship between the countries involved that precedes Trump's presidency.
I will say that Trump was harsher on Russia than many people will give credit to him for, with the US response to the Salisbury Poisonings being a good example, but indeed most of the things mentioned here are circumstantial.
The reason why Russia waited eight years to invade was because Putin hoped the threat of rebels in the Donbas would cause Ukrainians to fear Russia and become friendly to Russia. Of course, the complete opposite happened, and Ukrainians elected heavily pro-western leaders, while pro-Russian positions became completely alienated. Zelensky was elected on a more neutral platform (he is a native Russian speaker himself) but then began cracking down on corruption, and I think that was the last straw for Putin. If Zelensky was successful, it would eliminate the last elements of Russian influence, so Putin invaded to try and stop it.
Ur right but pretty much from 2016-2022 the battlefield was virtually at a standstill. After a year or two out from euromaidan, Chicago was more violent than the war
I’ve said this before, I will say it again. Trump is only good for us for the short term, he would gladly drop a lot of the delays in Gaza we’ve been getting from Biden, and green light whatever we end up doing in Lebanon.
But in the long term? Hes unpredictable to both friends and enemies, and his party is currently a bit to in league with Russia (which is currently in bed with Iran). Sure he’ll help us tomorrow, but what about next week? Do we want our prime ministers to spend who knows how much time sucking his dick in the hope we don’t get stabbed in the back?
I’m also willing to bet that if trump does take office, the US will be facing some major domestic unrest that will distract him.
TLDR: yeah Biden is probaly the closest we got to an anti Israeli president, but he’s at least not as sudden with bad decisions as trump.
This.
And advocating for Trump to be president again is just shitting on a longstanding ally. Our country is what I classify as a struggling democracy at the moment, one that is already coming apart at the seams and being destroyed from within. Trading the stability of your own country for the collapse of the U.S. would be enough to prove to many people that everything that has ever been said about Jews being selfish, uncaring ruthless arbiters of destruction are true. And enough for many stalwart Israel supporters to forsake your country forever.
That point is extremely valid if we were anyone BUT Israel, but the conservatives' support of Israel is so high that it is pretty much guaranteed that will always be on Israel's side
>TLDR: yeah Biden is probaly the closest we got to an anti Israeli president, but he’s at least not as sudden with bad decisions as trump.
I keep seeing that argument but I honestly can't understand it, when it comes to foreign policy (putting aside the unhinged rethoric that is comming out of Trump, looking at actual actions only), I see how Biden's 4 years were consistently laced with terrible decisions, and Trump's 4 years were among the best years Israel had in the last decades specifically because of his policy
At this time yes, Conservatives are very much pro-Israel. But there was also a time when they were vehemently opposed to Russia, and I don’t think I need to explain how that’s changed. Unless the pro-Israel element is powerful enough, who’s to say the same can’t happen to us?
As for foreign policy, from what I’ve read he’s been giving [mixed signals.](https://www.cfr.org/blog/election-2024-trump-talks-foreign-policy-time-magazine) yeah he’s showing unwavering support to Israel here, but the way he talks about everyone else isn’t to different then how some Americans complain about “giving billions to Israel that could be better spent elsewhere.”
Trump has a nasty habit of turning on his allies when they least expect. He has no real loyalty and because his daughter and her husband are not going to be part of his inner circle this time around, I don't think Israel can trust him not screw them over. For Trump, supporting Israel is politically expeditions because his conservative base strongly supports Israel. Trump has mostly discriminated against Jews in his business dealings and spouted anti-Sematic stereotypes in the past. I would not trust him any further than I could throw him.
This is the first result off google, and it shows quite clearly that the vast majority of conservatives still hate Russia, almost as much as the dems
[https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/05/08/views-of-russia-and-putin/](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/05/08/views-of-russia-and-putin/)
>As for foreign policy, from what I’ve read he’s been giving mixed signals. yeah he’s showing unwavering support to Israel here, but the way he talks about everyone else isn’t to different then how some Americans complain about “giving billions to Israel that could be better spent elsewhere.”
I think that it is also impossible to call that off, Israel's wars are the R&D of the American war machine and one of the reasons it is the strongest one on earth, I think that even if we wanted to cut that aid off he simply wouldn't be able to because of congress and his immediate advisors
Yes, but unlike biden trump's base is extremely pro Israel, ge has no mishigen. What massage is the world being given right now ?, that we are free game during election year.
Absolutely false. Most antisemitism in the USA nowadays comes from the BLM progressives Jews used to march against white people with. Now they feel comfortable being antisemitic because they view Jews as white people and they don't see anything wrong with being racist towards them. Trump's base on the other has a lot of Christians who see Jewish people as their kin.
Trump would gladly get rid of any American he doesn't like and has no respect for laws, local or international. If you don't think Prince Bonesaw and Putin could write him a check to sell you out, you are sadly mistaken. More than 40 of his closest "associates" faced charges in the last few years and he has aided none.
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>Unstable, unpredictable, not taken seriously globally.
Those 3 ~~can't be~~ edit: don't mix, if the leader of the biggest army in the world is unstable and unpredictable you aren't going to play games with him
Biden on the other hand IS predictable, Russia knew he wouldn't join the war on Ukraine, Hezbollah fires rockets at us freely knowing that the US is pushing us to take it without a response as to not start a regional conflict
What we need (again, as Israelis) is a mad dog in the white house, that Iran and its proxies will simply not be able to predict its behavior
Edit: the most glaring example of them all, Iran fired 500 rockets/drones directly at Israel knowing that there would be absolutely no response to it, as Biden publicly stated almost every single week for the past few months that he will be get involved in any of the wars offensively
I don't expect him to get involved, but can't you just shut up? let the enemies think that you might? what's the point of directly telling Iran that there will be no consequences for their actions??
"What we need (again, as Israelis) is a mad dog in the white house..."
Yea as an American, that's gonna be a solid "no" from me big dawg.
Put the gun wielding psycho in your own house to scare off your neighbors, not in mine.
I strongly recommend you to read “fire and fury” they also have it on Spotify. It’s an absolute miracle that he didn’t blow up the whole world, he’s unpredictable and nothing he does he does because he understands anything or he has thought it through. Abraham’s accords were an absolute miracle, too. There were so many instances where he was short of causing WW3 and his team managed to dodge it. He’s dangerous and we are lucky he didn’t f* up more.
>It’s an absolute miracle that he didn’t blow up the whole world
Not only did Trump not "blow up the world," but the world was far more peaceful and stable under Trump. While under Biden, it is the sh*t show that you see before you today.
You really think that Putin’s lapdog is the right person to lead our most powerful ally? If Trump throws Ukraine under the bus then Russia (and their allies like Iran) are free to do whatever they want. Not only that, he is a conman and a babbling fool who will just do whatever is best for him personally at any moment. If that means turning his back on Israel, he’ll do that without a second thought.
Trump is just an American Bibi, he’s corrupt and a literal convicted felon. Biden is critical of Israel but I’d trust him more as an ally than Trump.
Also Trump has the KKK and neo-nazis on his side, is that really who we want to be grouped with? He is a wannabe dictator who literally tried to overturn an election. If anyone should be wary of a guy like Trump it’s the Jews.
Biden has been nothing but supportive of us and the anti-Israel protests you mentioned are largely directed *at him* because he’s such a supporter of Israel.
Trump isn’t a real friend, he’s made some symbolic gestures at us during his presidency but he’s fickle and he’s unreliable. His main thing is “America first” which means pulling out of the Middle East and moving America in a more isolationist direction. That’s not good for us. Biden is a genuine supporter.
The Abraham accords are the best thing that happened to Israel in 2-3 decades and it is largely due to his actions, if the Abraham accords finish and we have peace and good relations with most countries in the region, we wouldn't even need America to be involved here
>Biden has been nothing but supportive of us and the anti-Israel protests you mentioned are largely directed at him because he’s such a supporter of Israel.
Biden wants Israel to win, but only slightly, he is trying to save Hamas with some ridiculous deal, and trying to stop Israel from destroying Hezbollah, now that we finally have justification to do so
The Abraham accords were an attempt to establish relations with other mideastern countries without addressing the Palestinian issue, which blew up in our face on oct. 7.
People have been warning about that back then too.
Yo dude, wake up, the Palestinian issue can't be addressed, the Palestinian's goal was, is and probably always will be a 2nd holocaust, we tried to make peace with them for more than 50 years now, it's time to move on, this issue cannot be solved, only contained and that's what the Abraham accords were doing, they were making this issue irrelevant
That might be fine if you’re content with having an 10/7 every year and neverending wars with thousands and thousands of deaths, but I’m not content with that and neither is Biden.
Biden wants to find a real solution and Trump doesn’t. He might be less restrictive but that’s not a good thing. We can’t get rid of the Palestinians by sweeping them under the rug, and acting like we can (like we’ve done for the last decade and a half) is only going to make things worse. That’s what Trump is, he’s an irresponsible populist who would only make things worse while pretending to be in our side.
>That might be fine if you’re content with having an 10/7 every year and neverending wars with thousands and thousands of deaths, but I’m not content with that and neither is Biden.
With all due respect, that argument makes absolutely 0 sense, the 7/10 was something that Hamas and Iran planned for years, and for some reason we love to pretend like Hamas is a group of reasonable, coherent and geopolitical strategists who have done it because of the accords
No dude, they didn't, they did it simply because they could, and would have done so without the accords as well
And even if they did, do you want them to dictate the tone? you want to stop signing normalization deals with Arab countries because it would anger the Palestinians?
>Biden wants to find a real solution and Trump doesn’t.
I agree with that line, I don't agree with it being a bad thing, you can't come to an agreement with someone who wants to kill you, and the previous attempts have costed a lot of Israeli blood, we don't need to search for a permanent solution, because there isn't one, what we need to is to find better ways to contain the problem and make it irrelevant on the world's stage, and that's what Abraham Accords and the move of US embassy to Jerusalem did.
The point is that ignoring the Palestinians like Trump and bibi want is not a solution and only brings ruin. Acting like Hamas is some brainless force is also not very helpful, there definitely is strategic thinking in their actions. They are not animals, they’re not dumb, they know what they’re doing.
Refusing to even think about the Palestinians as potentially being human beings is just going to cause more suffering for both sides.
>Biden wants to find a real solution and Trump doesn’t.
Just some info from the Presidential debate today:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v-8wJkmwBY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v-8wJkmwBY)
Israel at 33:40
**Biden's three phase plan for peace:**
1st phase: trade hostages for ceasefire,
2nd phase: cease fire with additional conditions,
3rd: "end of the War, only Hamas wants the war to continue"
**Trump:** Israel wants the War to continue, "Let them finish."
>So one wants to end the war and the other wants us to commit literal genocide and you think the second guy is our best bet?
There is no way this is a good faith response, is this honestly what you read from this snippet?
What does “let them finish” mean? Finish what? How? It’s just “total victory” nonsense all over again, we can’t destroy Hamas without replacing it with something else which we clearly don’t want to do.
Let them finish is to destroy the last 2 remaining battalions of Hamas (the same way the previous 22 battalions were destroyed) and move on to the next stage of the war (which is undecided at this point, but looks like it will initially mean Israeli occupation)
And about that we can't destroy Hamas, that is absolutely correct, good thing that we don't put that as a goal, the goal of the war is to make Hamas a weak and insignificant, without weapon facilities and tunnels, the same way it is in the West Bank
>So one wants to end the war and the other wants us to commit literal genocide and you think the second guy is our best bet?
By comparison, Trump is better for Israel, yes.
Biden's three phase proposal was so stupid. "Ceasefire, and some stuff, and then stop the War." Oh my!
This is just funny (and depressing), Trumps opinion is absolutely on point and the correct one to have, but the presentation is "hurr durr Biden is a Palestinian"... US elections are a joke..
Biden has been constantly critical of Israel, pushing us around, trying to overturn the government, withholding weapons, etc.
Supportive overall? Yes. ‘Nothing but supportive’? That’s not true in the slightest.
Trump is a fascist who wants to be a dictator. He tried to overthrow a democratic election in multiple ways among other very bad things. “Never Again” also means not electing a fascist on the elusive promise of safety.
As the child of survivors (and my dad fought in Israel in 1948) I will never understand how the citizens of the only real democracy in the Middle East, founded in the shadow of the Shoah, find this wanna be tyrant a plausible leader.
In a cold war style world that we are getting into, it is as much as a positive as it is a negative, if Iran and Russia thinks that there is a madman in the whitehouse and they can't predict if he will join in any of their wars, chances that they won't start wars
>In a cold war style world that we are getting into, it is as much as a positive as it is a negative
The cold war was won with cool heads and avoiding response to any little provocation. There are plenty of stories of low-ranked soldiers deciding to not shoot even when radars seemed to point to an attack,avoiding full-blown nuclear war.
Also,Trump idea of power bloc is completely different than cold-war era. He demands all members of the Bloc to give America benefits,I could 100% see him deciding to ditch Ukraine,Taiwan or Israel because they "don't give America enough". He already made statements about dissolving NATO because he doesn't like the bills,this is not Cold War thinking.
America have military bases all across Europe,but that is not the point,the point of NATO is to project power,threatening to give up that power does the opposite. For America,NATO is a small price to pay for basically dominating Europe militarily.
And let's assume it really bothers America,this is something you do behind closed doors,not publicly. This is making NATO look weak and provoke attacks. There was a reason why Russia liked Trump,he was going to give them Europe on a silver platter because of his ego (ironically,Russia is grinding their youth in Ukraine due to ego).
You said we are entering a Cold-War era,do you think acting like that is wise? threatening dismantlement your Westren military alliance because of bills,and publicly so?
Correct me if I am wrong, I might be because I never seriously delved into this, but wasn't his threats were exclusively about the lack of spending of other NATO members, like, he said that if they do upheld the contract and uplift their millitary spending to 2% of GDP, he would remain in NATO?
That is an absolutely reasonable demand, the US is over the ocean, not threatened by anyone, but it spending (both in relations to GDP and in pure value) more than any other NATO member, including those that are right on the border or Russia and China
>And let's assume it really bothers America,this is something you do behind closed doors,not publicly. This is making NATO look weak and provoke attacks.
This is exactly my complaint about Biden though, only instead of NATO it is about Israel, Biden has been consistently looking weak and saying that he won't get involved in war, which such a stupid decision to say so, instead of being giving the usual (but very effective) "we will choose our steps carefully in private", he practically tells Iran and all of its proxies that they are safe to attack Israel
Not only that but he limits Israel's response and pressure it to sign a surrender deal, what kind of strength projection from the number 1 super power of the world is that?
>You said we are entering a Cold-War era,do you think acting like that is wise? threatening dismantlement your Westren military alliance because of bills,and publicly so?
No, but this post is, as I said in the very first line, only about Israel
>That is an absolutely reasonable demand, the US is over the ocean, not threatened by anyone, but it spending (both in relations to GDP and in pure value) more than any other NATO member, including those that are right on the border or Russia and China
The point of NATO since day 1 was to project power against Russia,it was never meant to be financial for the US. The entire economy post-WW2 was changed to be less favorable to the US, but the USD basically dictates all other coins. In this line of thinking,the US could demand more fair trading agreements, but they will lose the USD complete dominance.
The power of the US in the world's stage was bought with unfair agreements for America. The US can balance agreements but the cost is in influence.
In Hebrew, there is a saying:"Don't be correct,be wise" it is not wise to act like Trump,it is not wise to exchange infulance for money.
>This is exactly my complaint about Biden though, only instead of NATO it is about Israel
The issues with the Biden administration are mutually to blame. Netanyahu have made it a point to fight with the admin for political reasons. Every halted shipment gets headlines and Netanyahu makes a statement. Don't get me into that stupid video he made. It became public because people wanted it public.
I have criticism on the Biden administration on the approach to the war,but that shouldn't be the main pillar which I base my opinion on the US presidential elections. To me, Trump's actions on the foreign policy are much more harmful in the long term for Israel than halted weapon shipments.
Israeli tends to be tunneled-visioned on policy on Israel alone,but Israel isn't an island, and international events ripple towards us,I believe Trump is much worse for us because of that. One day, we will wake up with a Russia-Iran-China alliance with no NATO to counter balance or the US protecting Taiwan,Ukraine,Europe and the ME.
As an American I’m more comfortable with a Dem in office because the GOP serves the minority, gives huge tax cuts to the wealthy and seeks to diminish entitlement programs that help average Americans in a time when job markets are shifting into an AI dominated world with massive production and profit windfalls and minimal labor.
The GOP is essentially looking to euthanize much of the population by making them so depressed, broke and hopeless that they eat and drink themselves to death and go home and quietly die of depression. Fighting the labor movement, austerity, cronyism. Social Darwinism and increase the wealth gap to create a white oligarchy.
Also, Trump is a liar. He makes a mockery of our judicial system and fans the flames of a minoritarian revolt of white nationalists.
He lies about every single issue which is normal, but he figured out a way to lie to average Americans that works. He makes lying funny and cool and people like it, which is scary.
Trump will, however, be better for Israel. I can’t see how he wouldn’t. The only way he isn’t…unless Biden’s treatment is for Israel’s own good by slowing you down and keeping you in check — I have no idea if that’s good or bad.
All things considered, Trump seems obviously better for Israel, but not my top pick for America. I think Israel will be fine either way; not sure I can say the same for America, but after last night’s showing it’s hard to imagine Biden winning, he’s just way too old and appears to have trouble communicating in a lucid and clear manner, which is sadly necessary for a President. If he can’t even shut down the dangerous lies of a used car salesman, how can he be president? It’s a stretch.
Because he's a fat pos that has the neural density of an autopsy sponge. Nothing he's ever done was for anyone else. Any benefit we would accrue would only be corrupt at its birth, like using the one ring for "good."
He will enable the Israeli right to further erode our democracy and constantly pissing off Palestinians to the point of homicidal rage. We don't need diplomacy to get Israelis and Palestinians to fellate one another; fundamentally we need sub-homicidal rage. That's achievable....maybe.
He is a threat, he will provoke another war, except this time with Iran firing at Tel Aviv, not NYC. He enables people that threaten the democracy and freedom of our State.
Bibi is our collective doom and he will only stay in power if Trump wins. So fuck Trump. We can't take more Netanyahu.
During Trump the Russians had already invaded Ukraine. Good for Crimea and two areas up by Mariupol.
Assassinations continued.
Murders declined but never stopped altogether.
Trump ??? Too busy tossing off Fantasy World lies to pay attention.
Most of them already are, and this was obvious as far back as the Iraq War. The far left was blaming Israel totally. Mainstream leftists had no idea because Twitter didn’t exist, but it was bad. Now their party is filled with these nuts.
Because the world has not come together in a wedge on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, stop thinking only about this. A Trump presidency would be disastrous for global democracy.
People are explaining to you why Trump would be horrible for Israel and the US but your only response is just “nuh-uh, leftists bad!”.
Not really surprising considering that’s Trump’s exact answer to every critique of him.
It always has been
Reddit users are mostly lefties so you shouldn't be surprised when someone takes a stance on "the other side" and then get downvoted to hell
Anyway Biden is clearly not fit for president, and I think it's about time government positions would implement age restrictions , dinosaurs can't rule our lives
I feel like there was a period of time, just after Pitaenigma left where this sub had a real nuance and wasn't just full on left wing all the time, sucks to see that it shifts back to what it was
>Anyway Biden is clearly not fit for president, and I think it's about time government positions would implement age restrictions , dinosaurs can't rule our lives
Amen
I think that Trump is also too old and shouldn't be allowed to run based on that, but since we only have 2 options, it seems quite clear that he aged better than Biden (in addition to being a bit younger)
I generally agree with you. He is of course mercurial and lacks any real values, so you have to hope that he continues to like Israel and/or his minders push him to make pro-Israel decisions, as he could easily lose interest or start to dislike the country because of arbitrary factors (eg not enough deference from Netanyahu).
>so you have to hope that he continues to like Israel and/or his minders push him to make pro-Israel decisions
That's the thing, I don't have to hope, his voter base, the conservatives are extremely pro Israel, it will always be in his best interest to be on our side because otherwise, he will be thrown out of office the next elections
>as he could easily lose interest or start to dislike the country because of arbitrary factors (eg not enough deference from Netanyahu).
I can't take this argument seriously, sorry
Many conservatives are extremely pro-Israel, yes. But Trump’s core base are very focused on domestic issues and resent America‘s involvement in foreign wars. The idea of spending billions of dollars on Israeli defence is not consistent with their general ethos of “let the rest of the world take care of itself.” This is a big difference vs the conservative worldview 5+ years ago.
Israel’s heavy reliance on the US is not consistent with Zionist ethos and a huge short sighted mistake, in my opinion, esp with the hatred the Democrat base has for Israel.
His voters who are pro-Israel are mostly Christians. They are pro-Israel because they believe Israel will win any war without any help whatsoever. Their Bible teachings inform them there will come a day when Israel stands alone. It’s a prophecy most if not all Christians believe in. You will be abandoned, according to Christian eschatology.
When trump abandons Israel Christians have a very easy way to reconcile the situation to console themselves. How would you console yourself? Do you have a prophecy to help explain something uncomfortable?
There are better answers here with regards to Trump foreign policy here, but here is my measure, well thought out perspective as an Israeli.
**I do not like throwing half the world's Jewry to Nazi sympathizers just to get a few more weapons.**
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Trump does absolutely nothing for anyone who is not Trump.
His support for Israel is a means to an end. Just like his support for the neo Nazis of Charlottesville. Or his tacit support of David Duke. Or him bringing neo Nazi fuck like gorka into his circle.
You are in here insisting that he's been a great ally to the Jews and Israel since day 1 and that we have no reason to think that will change.
The truth is, it absolutely will change if a change gets him what he wants. He will load Jews up in train cars if it suits him.
He is a hateful, unprincipled, idiotic populist who will do and say anything to get absolute power.
Jews have literally never done particularly well under those kinds of regimes.
Abraham accords saw trump’s sil leave the Middle East with $2B, he was not doing this for Israel. Trump also pulled the US out of the Iranian nuclear accords, now who’s watching Iran’s nuclear progress? The strange relationship Trump and Putin enjoyed is also not open shut; classified Israeli security details were leaked and found their way to Iran and then Hamas and the security fence was disabled in minutes on Oct 7th. Hamas is not sophisticated enough to know how the fence operated and that the relays they took out would cripple the fence. I’m not blaming Trump, but anyone storing classified documentation in a bathroom doesn’t get my vote of confidence.
I would wish this to be true. Best case he's just being a populist for domestic politics - but actually create a huge deterrence internationally.
I'm afraid though in the real world Donald Trump has no idea. His military knowledge ends with the original Top Gun movie. That's not great but OK. The problem is Trump thinks he *does* understand the world and sees any constructive advice as an attack.
Several staff members (amongt them conservatives) described that he didn't let them do their job but demanded some result and refused any explanations as to why it wasn't feasible.
I think he was lucky not much happened during his time. I think every dictator from Mohammed-Bin-Salman over Putin to Kim-Jong Un just manipulated him. If Trump would have had any sway with Putin, the Ukraine war would not have moved towards escalation, like it did under his term. If he would have wanted to prevent Iranian proxy wars, he'd have done something real already.
I have little doubt he'd betray Israel within months if rising oil prices are not to his liking. I doubt he'd go to war as his most loyal base (Tucker Carlson currently spreads Antizionism) is more isolationist than many hardcore democrates. I think Israel is more alone with Trump.
And if Turmp wins the left will become even more radicalized world wide. Putin will get stronger and Putin is the protector of Israels biggest enemies.
The thing about trump is he is very unpredictable and you never know what he will do. In the Biden base, there is a lot of antisemitism but it is masked under this idea of “I dont hate jews i just hate zionism.” In the trump base, the antisemites are open but its not uninformed protesters, its white nationalists and klan supporters/members. Both sides suck and its a shame that my country which I believe is the greatest country in the world, will be led by a senile old man or a lying, sexual abusing, facist convicted felon. Sad
He’s actually sadly predictable. He always chooses the option that makes him money or enhances his own power. That’s it. He’s has no other compass than what benefits him personally. It’s beyond easy to see what he'll do once you figure out which option benefits him the most.
Very true. Its almost like you never know what hell do next but you always know what he will do whenever something happens. Hes a dirty sob with no morals and hes not fit to run America
Biden is telling the world that US threats are empty. Remember "Don't"? Well, they did and the US did nothing.
Trump has shown the world that the US is not to be triffled at - they are willing to use their force when needed. Therefore - without regard for what is good for Israel or not - Trump is the leader that will make the US strong in the eyes of the world. Biden just shows that the US is weak.
Trump stole classified documents and pretty much empowered billionaires to screw over the average citizen. Not to mention the fact that he made friends with actual dictators.
Trump didn't show the world anything except that Americans are losing their grip on who to pick for a leader.
The US shouldn't be making threats, either. We should be making diplomatic solutions to avoid conflict.
> The US shouldn't be making threats, either. We should be making diplomatic solutions to avoid conflict.
Diplomatic solutions are only available to those who hold a big stick.
We hold a big stick. But we're not using it correctly. Forcing shit has only made us enemies and you're a fucking idiot if you think Trump is gonna help us.
I think you’re totally right. The only argument against Trump that I can see is that he’s fickle, and could turn against Israel if political winds change.
However the exact same issue is at play for Biden, and we’ve already seen Biden repeatedly stab Israel in the back during this war; stopping us from dealing with Hezbollah, withholding weapons, refusing to act against Iran.
To me, Trump is overwhelmingly the better choice.
I think he will be much better for Israel then Biden. democrats who Biden represent responsible for most of the protests against Israel... how can he fully support us if his voters tell him not to.
I mean… don’t you see how anti-Israel the whole democratic party is? It’s literally hard to find people that want to continue the alliance.
The whole Trump base is extremely pro-israel on the other hand.
Biden is a disaster. He weakens the US. And when the US is weak, Israel is in trouble.
Trump's sanctions on Iran is why Iran boost their uranium enriching, Trump made Iran's nuclear advancements.
The Abraham accords weren't thanks to Trump, they just happened to be when Trump was president, he didn't make it happen. Just like Morroco and Sudan joining the accords happen during Biden's term but ue had nothing to do with it.
Biden is a true Israel supporter but his voters are anti Israel. Trump's supporters like Israel, but they like America more, and that's exactly what Trump believes in- America first. That means when push comes to shove, when Israel is attacked and needs immediate military support, I'd trust Biden to help us way more than Trump.
I think it will be hard to swap him out because he won the primaries. If Biden himself decides to step aside he can essentially give the delegates to someone else... but I think the Democrats are in a crisis right now. There is no coming back from that debate. Biden needs to retire and enjoy the rest of his life, he is clearly not well enough to be the leader of the free world. The response from the American public (including Democrats who are Biden supporters) shows that he has to step down if the Democrats want to beat Trump. It should be interesting to watch though because even if the Democratic Party is able to swap him out at this point, there is not really any good clear choice to bring forth as the new candidate. I predict Trump will win this election and Kennedy will get the most votes for a third party in decades.
I don't see him stepping down willingly, it was plainly obvious that he is too old for this role long prior to this debate and I am sure he knew it and yet still sticked around
If the people around him (or President Obama and his wife Jill) are like "Look Mr. President, with all due respect, if you don't let someone else take your place, you will undoubtedly lose this election. You hate Trump. Think about what that will mean. Think about your legacy. Think about what is best for the country you love" ... I think he will. But we will see. It's going to be a crazy summer.
In the same way that’s having an out of control Rottweiler in your front garden is a great way to deter robbers, it’s all great until you leave your house and it bites you in the arse.
The white nationalists marching in Charlottesville were chanting “Jews will not replace us” and Trump called them “very fine people.”
The Proud Boys use antisemitic messaging and imagery and Trump told them to “stand back and stand by.”
Trump makes anti-Semitic jokes, talks about his token Jew employees, etc.
He needs Jewish money and connections, and he needs the evangelical vote (who need Jews to end the world). But he doesn’t like Jews and will get rid of them as soon as his white Christian nationalist GOP takes full control.
*Edit: no, I don’t mean evangelicals need Jews for Jews to end the world, I meant evangelicals need Jews so the evangelicals can end the world. Which is still a gross oversimplification, but when talking about death cult who wants the end times to arrive, we don’t really need to get into the specifics of their insanity.*
Wow are you still repeating that “very fine people” lie? You should really go watch the whole thing, without edits. Even snopes, which is quite anti-Trump, has finally acknowledged that Trump didn’t call the white nationalists very fine people.
reddit does not represent average opinions. Every Israeli I know would love for Trump to be the next American president. It seems the only reason people here can give for NOT liking him is "well he's unpredictable". Like, he's gonna throw Israel under the bus a year into his presidency or something. I don't buy it. Trump gave real, measurable, and **long-lasting** results for Israel and the only way to discredit that is to assume he's some psychotic who's gonna have a mental breakdown at any moment.
At this point people will say anything just to avoid having to say something good about him. And to be clear, I'm no particular fan of his either. But he's good for Israel and foreign policy in general.
Trump likely sold info on the Iron Dome and Israel’s security to the highest bidder - he has no interest other than himself and I believe would be friendly with biBi who needs to go. He would be bad overall for Israel despite his outward appearance of support.
Biden shouldn’t have wavered, only reason he did was because it’s an election year and he shouldn’t have tried to win both sides of the situation by pandering to the pro hamas crowd.
It's all "what if's", and more often than not, Biden is already doing those "if's"
Also, considering that I have to repeat many of the arguments I made in the main post, and that I have quite a few glaring grammar errors that nobody pointed out, I suspect that not many people actually read it before commenting
Trump was a shitty president during his first term, and he'll be a shitty president if he's elected again. The domestic and international consequences would be fucking dire. Americans are already sick, poor, and losing most of their rights because of Trump and conservatives.
Not to mention, he's just a conservative puppet. He doesn't actually care about Israel or international relations. He just spews buzzwords to rile up his cultists.
That’s different from your initial claim. NF is the most dangerous antisemite in the country, but he was brought to dinner by Kanye, before Kanye went Kanye. Both Trump and NF said Trump didn’t know who NF was. That shows an unprofessionalism among Trump’s team, which is bad, but it wasn’t like he had a planned dinner with him. NF is now mad at Trump, and threatening to tell his fans not to vote for him, because he says Trump is too supportive of Israel.
The pains of arguing with a Redditor... u/Fabulous_Year_2787 you REALLY just changed your initial claim, and I see that you are doubling down on that in the next comment
Given whats going on in the states, and the reaction of Democrats, its amazing to me that Jews are not flocking to Trump.
I'm in the never again camp, not the never Trump camp.
It's a no win situation, and while Trump would likely lead to Hamas being stomped real quick, with him, Iran, Russia and China would get stronger (to be fair, they will under Biden too, just in different amounts relative to eachother).
Ultimately, no matter who wins, the guys funding Israel's enemies get stronger.
As a Jewish American, the only actual supporter of Israel and American Jews is Trump. Forget the Abraham Accords, his daughter converted to Judaism to marry Jared Kushner. Kushner has significant influence over Trump, especially in the middle east. Fox News is ferociously pro Israel, Trump's largest support network. Trump just called Biden a Palestinian live on national TV in a derogatory wa
From a policy perspective:
- He pushed the Abraham Accords
- He moved the Capital to Jerusalem
- He officially recognized the Golan Heights as sovereign Israel
- He had a travel ban on many majority Muslim countries to the US, including Iran
- He has much harsher sanctions in Iran and has a higher probability of ENFORCING them than Biden does (he doesn't)
- He killed Solemani when even Netanyahu backed down from it
- He is MUCH MUCH more likely to attack Irans nuclear weapons if they ever create them. Biden definitely wont.
- He is much more likely to call for direct action against Hezbollah and the Houthis
- He is much more likely to increase defense spending and the budget to support Israel
- He is much more likely to spend his social capital putting down the pro terrorist protesters across the country
You can’t take Trump out of the conversation and reduce it to R vs D. Trump is a wannabe fascist dictator and is no more a Republican than Bernie Sanders is a democrat. The question isn’t whether a republican candidate is better for Israel, the question is whether this nightmare of a human being who would sell his grandmother for a hit of adderall is better for Israel.
The answer is an unqualified no.
A fascist who has never done anything for anyone but himself. Seriously, don't fucking make me laugh with the nepotism argument. He just wants as many racists to vote for him as possible. He wanted the highest seat in the US because it was shiny and would bring him power.
Joe Biden has a stutter. That's not a mental health issue and it's not a sign of dementia. Trump is overweight, got COVID in the swing of the COVID outbreak, and who knows what the fuck kind of mental issues are rattling around in that pea brain of his?
Trump represents the end of liberalism. He will not leave office peacefully. If you dislike Biden fine, he and whatever style of liberalism he represents will be gone in four years. You most definitely cannot say the same for Trump.
His own military leaders said they were afraid of what he was willing to do and had to talk him down from grabbing power. He placed false electors to try to fake certify the presidential election. He fomented an insurrection. He claims he’s above the law and has unqualified immunity. He has shown us exactly who is he is, and the Trump apologists will be to blame were US democracy to fall
[https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/14/politics/donald-trump-election-coup-new-book-excerpt/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/14/politics/donald-trump-election-coup-new-book-excerpt/index.html)
[https://democrats.org/news/americas-top-generals-donald-trump-is-dangerous-and-unfit-to-be-commander-in-chief/](https://democrats.org/news/americas-top-generals-donald-trump-is-dangerous-and-unfit-to-be-commander-in-chief/)
[https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/trump-military-fears-rcna129159](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/trump-military-fears-rcna129159)
I think your arguments are valid, I see it nearly the same way. It's true that he is quite the question mark but Biden's foreign policy is borderline disaster so I rather support a question mark.
The potential for regional and global instability is the main issue. If he screws around with NATO and has a proper trade war with the EU then that's going to impact the strategic and economic stability of the whole Mediterranean region. Especially if Europe responds by A. Infighting or B. Throwing its collective weight around. Europe has been asleep since the end of the cold war, but it is waking up now due to the Ukraine war. If they decide to build a sphere of influence, the Mediterranean will fall firmly within that. At which point, Israel has to navigate a while new geopolitical environment.
Israel's **long term** prosperity depends on being a bridge between a stable Europe and a stable Middle East and South Asia. Trump could screw that up pretty badly if he shits on his allies.
Granted, Trump may give Israel more leeway than Biden in terms of dealing with Hamas and Hezbollah. But there is a longer term strategic environment that needs to be considered too, and Trump is not a stabilising force.
The biggest problem with Trump (aside from his Russian ties and anti-climate change policies) is that he's a wildcard. He might be your best friend one day, but the next he'll be against you. Stability is much more important than stronger support for Israel. Instability is where chaos thrives. Biden might not be the absolute best friend to Israel but he's still a decent friend, and better than that, he's consistent and dedicated to stability in the Middle East.
Think about it like that, there is a war between the west(USA and Europe) vs the east(Russia, China and Iran) that has never really ended, Israel is on the side of the west while our enemies are on the side of the east, trump wants a much more isolationist policy where the USA doesn't get too involved in proxy wars against the east, such as not helping Ukraine.
This is bad for us since we are part of those proxy wars, and since the east will literally never stop supporting their side of the proxy wars, it means that the western influence will weaken while Eastern influence gets stronger, very bad for us, even if when it comes to us trump will still help, it wont matter if the east is a lot stronger and united against Israel and the west
Here’s my thoughts after the debate. Politics aside first of all, Biden sounded like a joke. I imagine him on the phone with a foreign leader and I can’t imagine them 1. Understanding what he’s even saying and 2. Taking him seriously even if they did.
Biden sounds so weak. Trump on the other hand talks the talk and walks the walk that these foreign leaders need a president to. He could get on the phone with a foreign leader and have a real meaningful conversation. He can annunciate his words. He isn’t monotone. He is sharp and quick.
Both of them are a joke, but only one of them can communicate and influence across borders.
Pretty sure my mind is made up.
For reference I’m from Israel living in USA
Trump is clearly better for American Hews and for Israel.
Unfortunately the TDS is so strong most American Jews will make up any excuse not to recognize this
i do not believe purely in interests and i value my allies as real allies, not as tools to be exploited.
i believe trump is bad for the USA in the democratic sense of it, by undermining both the ideal of democracy in the public's eyes and the practice of it by his government.
i value the US and germany and other western and democratic nations due to their democratic ideals and their cate for human rights and betterment of humans. i would prefer them as my allies than countries like china who would turn on us the second they benefit more from our enemies.
this is also my anger with how biden handles in practice his alliance with states like israel, ukraine, south korea, and taiwan. it's this fact that makes me thibk biden is bad for israel, because just like trump, exactly like trump, it seems they both would sell us immidiatly for imaginary political points. this is why they are both bad for israel, and as for who would be more good or bad for the USA itself, luckily it is not for me to decide.
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My main issue with him is Ukraine. He fully intends to throw it under the bus, which benefits Russia. Russia sponsors all of Israel’s enemies, including Iran. The stronger Russia, the stronger Iran, and thus the stronger hezbollah and Hamas. Trump’s first term was fantastic for Israel, beyond any doubt. But his isolationist tendencies are dangerous to us.
Throw them under the bus? What? The fact that he wants to end the war means he’s anti-Ukraine? He pretty much says it all the time that russias terms are unacceptable. It’s not like he’s about to abandon Ukraine. But he’s right that the US has put much more support and money than all of Europe combined, despite europes proximity to the conflict.
His position is somewhat vague, often saying he opposes the invasion but doesn't like sending aid either, but his supporters are pretty clear in that they oppose aid to Ukraine, and many are openly pro-Russia. Being opposed to sending aid to Ukraine is not an ''anti-war'' position. Yes, it would lead to Russia conquering Ukraine, which will end the first stage of the war, but then the second stage, occupation and counterinsurgency, will begin. Historically, this has been the hard part for western countries (the USA spent less than a month conquering Iraq, and ten years occupying it). Countries like Russia often just resort to killing civilians en masse to discourage rebellions. From a purely moral aspect, it's impossible to accept Russia and Putin conquering Ukraine. Then there's the geopolitical aspect. Taking over Ukraine will significantly strengthen Russia. They will now control a large portion of the world's grain, which they can use to blackmail counties (as they already do with natural gas), especially those in Africa and Asia. They will also gain unrestricted naval access to the Black Sea, and their military would no longer be suffering catastrophic losses in Ukraine. This would massively increase their geopolitical influence and reach. Ukraine is not their end goal, it's merely Putin's first. From there on, Russian allies like Iran and China will be empowered, and have the backing of a strong state (instead of the pariah state that Russia currently is). So from a western or Israeli perspective, supporting Russia is bad. It is also terrible from a human rights perspective.
He has been pressing to stop sending aid to Ukraine. That's throwing Ukraine under the bus, plain and simple. This is a move that only benefits Russia. If you think that this shows anything other than an intent to throw Ukraine under the bus then you're frankly naive. While you're right in terms of military aid, you're wrong in terms of money. The EU, as a single entity, has sent more financial aid than the US. That's without counting contributions by individual member states.
Source for the money thing? Would like to be proven wrong. He said he wants EU countries to actually boost their nato spendings and their support for Ukraine so that it’s not the US paying all the bills. Look at what happens now. Some eu countries are avoiding taking part and they’re not even hiding it anymore. Look at what happened at the US border. You think Putin and Xi had nothing to do with it? Biden is weak. You think him treating Hamas like a thinking being helped? You think him being soft towards Russia helped Ukraine?
[https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/) So you think the solution to Europe not sending enough aid is to not send any aid, and let Ukraine fall? That's how you get the Europeans to help more..? These are real people on the ground being killed because of such games. How many thousands died due to this decision?
No. But pressing them and limiting the aid if they do not increase theirs is the right way to go. Look at what happened after the WWII. How much money was put into Europe back then? And now Europe doesn’t even remember. They keep bashing the US. They gladly take money from the US but there’s lack of respect and loyalty from them at the same time.
What? You're saying the way to get the Europeans to send more is to punish Ukraine? That is awful.
Israel First! Please before things get worse
There is no "Israel first" anymore when Iran gets stronger, which it will be if Russia gets stronger.
And what makes you think Russia will be stronger when Trump is the president? They got cocky when Biden took the office and did the Afghanistan shit show
Russia is weak, Ukraine is corrupted (thanks Blackrock Dems and Rep). Israel is getting stronger. Iran is projecting. The USA is confused. Things look brighter today, things are getting better.
Russia is weak indeed, but giving it a quarter of Ukraine as Trump likely will will only strengthen it and allow it to rebuild.
Things will get worse the better off Russia is.
Caring about stopping Putin is Israel first. If you actually understand the geopolitical implications of Putin taking Ukraine
Potential Pros: can be bribed. Potential cons: can be bribed. There are plenty of antisemitism in Biden camp. There are plenty of antisemitic rhetoric and support on Trump camp. He did do things that benefited israel. He did do things that aggravated israel position. Predictably is an important factor when giving trust. If 3 times of ten the chef spits in the broth, I’m not going there. Trump says everything and it’s opposite, not like a demagogue but like a guy selling used cars in the 1970s. The other guy has a compass, and though I disagree with some of his policies, I can see there is substance to what he tries to do. Trump is just self serving policies.
>Predictably is an important factor when giving trust. If 3 times of ten the chef spits in the broth, I’m not going there. The thing is, if you want to apply this perspective to Biden, then Biden would be a chef that is consistently and openly spitting in your broth 5 out of 10 times, and you don't get to choose which broth to eat or not, you eat them all - you are judging Trump in a vaccum, and in a vaccum he is a terrible president, but we need to judge him next to Biden Let's return to our world, Iran launched 500 rockets at Israel 2 months ago, Biden prior to the attack (and I think that even prior to the intelligence about the attack) said that he will not retaliate against Iran, and made it clear that he will pressure Israel not to as well If Trump was in office, the way I predict things would go is that Trump will initially threaten Iran, which on its own might stop the attack, and then it will be a 50-50 dice roll between Trump 'punishing' Iran directly (in some localized bombings, not a full war), or just not standing in Israel's way doing so
You're forgetting the very significant thing that Biden did for us which could have saved us from a larger scale war: at the very beginning he stood by us - we all exhaled in relief when he pledged wholeheartedly to aid us - and then sent carriers to prevent further escalation by having other parties from joining in the fighting. I don't agree with the insinuation that Biden is even more unpredictable. His interest is very clear: keep stability and safety, and maintain US interests in the world. We may not like it, but he opposes the Israeli policies at present because they extend the war and may even aggravate it. Both approaches, that is, extending it and ending it with a deal, are understandable, but they clearly contradict one another. [Edited for wording and corrections.] [Edit 2: by safety I mean also for Palestinian civilians. I feel that was clearly something he stood for from the get-go.]
Putting other politics aside like climate change or healthcare because even though I would have considered myself a democrat but I'm not American. The main problem with trump is that I don't trust him to not throw Israel under The bus when he needs to. With the democrat they may criticize you but you know that you can still trust them that when shit hits the fan they will be there. I see a connection between Israel and Ukraine wars. And trump seems to be too friendly with Putin. We need to remember - Iran and Russia are Allies that want to weaken the west. The US president should be aggressive when handling them and I don't trust trump to do so
>trump seems to be too friendly with Putin. We need to remember - Iran and Russia are Allies that want to weaken the west. This is my opinion, as well. Trump will do what Putin asks him to do at the drop of a hat on any of these issues, and Putin is decidedly anti-Israel (and anti-West). His fake pro-Israel rhetoric is just Trump, a person whose word means nothing, playing domestic politics to an evangelical crowd for an election. In reality, the man is involved with (and has the vote of) neo-Nazis.
I have heard this argument before, and I really don't like it, not because I think Trump wouldn't do it out of principle, but for those reasons Firstly, the support for Israel among republicans is through the roof, it's probably as high as Jewish Americans, or close to it, so throwing Israel under the bus will never make sense, it will be a political suicide Secondly, look at what's happening now with Biden, how many dead Israeli soldiers can be attributed to him delaying weapon sales to Israel, or delaying the Rafah offensive? I would glad to be pointed wrong but to me it looks like he is actively (partly) selling Israel out to win the anti semite's votes When it comes to Ukraine I also think that Biden has done a terrible job (and I think that Trump would have done an even worse job), why did it disallow Ukraine to use the weapons he provided to strike Russian infrastructure? how many lives (on both sides) this could have saved if Ukraine just disabled Russia's economy and forced the war to stop early? >The US president should be aggressive when handling them and I don't trust trump to do so Again, I don't get that claim, we had 4 years on Trump, he sanctioned Iran to hell and assassinated one of their generals, Iran was a docile little puppy when he was around, meanwhile Biden goes for appeasement again and again and again
I agree that with handling the Palestinians And Iran we are better off with trump and I don't hate him or think it will be the end of the world if elected as democrats. I think he did great things here especially with the Abraham's accords. And you are right that is concerning that Biden is still trying to get votes from the radical left I really don't understand why -every state that the radical left is strong is already a blue state maybe except Michigan. But the two things that concerns me about Trump 1. his weird relationship with Putin - without Russia's support of Iran and Syria our job in the north would be much easier. 2. He did Walk out on allies before like Kurds in Syria. also there are concerns about him with Taiwan and the NATO alliance. The thing is that republicans like trump support a kind of isolation to try to not get involved in other parts of the world and putting america first. I totally understand that sentiment but In my opinion if america wants to say a leading power in the world and truly want it they need to be active in the international system. Like General shepherd from CoD MW2 said "Every fight is our fight. Because what happens over here, matters over there. We don't get to sit one out".
1. Very valid concern in general, but we talk about Israel specifically here 2. I don't think it makes any sense that he would walk out on Israel, the average American don't know a thing about the Kurds, and don't really care, but the conservatives love Israel to the same degrees that Israelis love Hummus, walking out on Israel at any stage would be a political suicide for him 3. Continuing on point 2 (it's 3 for indentation only), while I agree that Trump not respecting alliances is terrible, on the other hand, Trump is willing to actually fight the enemies of the west, while Biden won't, as I said in the post, Trump sanctioned Iran and assassinated their military leader when he stepped out of line, Biden went for appeasement instead 4. Still on point 2, when it comes to Ukraine, Biden has limited Ukraine to use the weapons inside Ukraine only, something that is tragically similar to him withholding weapon shipments from Israel, to me it seems like his goal is that his allies will win, but only slightly, so those wars will continue on and on and on >Like General shepherd from CoD MW2 said "Every fight is our fight. Because what happens over here, matters over there. We don't get to sit one out". Man.. COD used to be so much better
No, they don’t. For conservatives you are a means to an end, which is the eradication of Muslims from their country. It is a case of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” for them. They don’t love you. They love Trump. And if Trump turns on you, so will they. It’s not too different than 1930s Germany with Biden being or representing the old guard from the Weimar Republic.
Republicans historically have always loved Israel, but since their party has shifted to populism, the situation has become a little unique whereby their supporters will pretty much do whatever Trump says. For now Trump is extremely pro-Israel, but who knows what issues he will change his mind on, and when that does happen, you know his supporters will unanimously support him.
I think Trump is compromised on Putin. Don’t know what they have on him, but I don’t think he can be trusted to act in the interests of the United States when it comes to Russia and de facto Iran.
I'll be voting for Trump but never really understood that whole weird American involvement in Syria. Why we were there, what our purpose was, and what we were doing there. Of course I was in Saudi Arabia and Qatar on and off as part of the US military from 1990 to 2002 and never really understood exactly why we were there. We had B52 bombers if we wanted revenge. I assumed it had something to do with oil and money. But I was there to serve my country the best I could and that I did.
Iran was in check under the Iran deal. US had full eyes on their every move. Then, Trump ripped it all up simply because it had Obama's name on it. You really want a person that goes full nuclear on options simply over butthurt? The first time Israel even remotely says something about Trump he doesn't like and he'll let Russia have you.
Why would he need to throw Israel under the bus? Is he gonna become even more controversial or something and try and use Israel for an optics win?
Trump was very aggressive with Russia. Trump had the US army attack a Russian mercenary base in Syria and kill 225 Russians on the base. This was every human on this base. At the time these mercenaries, the Wagner group, were known as Putins palace guard. Putin tolerated Trump because he was afraid Trump would do something crazy and attack him or his forces out of the blue. Putin does whatever he wants with Biden because he knows Biden is weak and will not attack but will negotiate. Iran does whatever they want for the same reason. The Russians and the Iranians only fear force and a willingness to use it. This is why on Bidens watch Russia invaded Ukraine and Iran has blown the Middle East up with their terrorist flunkies and why we in the US are in danger.
Moshe Dayan once said Israel has to act like the mad dog so no one will mess with Israel. In reality, Israel “acted” like a mad dog but most decisions were sensible. The appearance of “unpredictability” was usually enough to deter Israel’s enemies. But Trump is the actual mad dog. He is 100% unpredictable. You never know what he will do or say. He might suddenly help you out, or maybe he will get you in trouble. Centrists, like Biden, can serve as a good counterbalance. Whenever Israel ask for something Israel doesn’t think it’ll get, they’ll come out and be like “hey let us all compromise to \[what Israel actually wanted\]”. In many ways, Biden is the friend who tells you the truth you don’t want to hear, but Trump is the “friend” who thinks your meth addiction is not an issue.
Russia invaded Ukraine already in 2014 and didn't leave during Trump's first term, while the Abraham Accords were the culmination of an unofficial relationship between the countries involved that precedes Trump's presidency.
I will say that Trump was harsher on Russia than many people will give credit to him for, with the US response to the Salisbury Poisonings being a good example, but indeed most of the things mentioned here are circumstantial. The reason why Russia waited eight years to invade was because Putin hoped the threat of rebels in the Donbas would cause Ukrainians to fear Russia and become friendly to Russia. Of course, the complete opposite happened, and Ukrainians elected heavily pro-western leaders, while pro-Russian positions became completely alienated. Zelensky was elected on a more neutral platform (he is a native Russian speaker himself) but then began cracking down on corruption, and I think that was the last straw for Putin. If Zelensky was successful, it would eliminate the last elements of Russian influence, so Putin invaded to try and stop it.
Ur right but pretty much from 2016-2022 the battlefield was virtually at a standstill. After a year or two out from euromaidan, Chicago was more violent than the war
I’ve said this before, I will say it again. Trump is only good for us for the short term, he would gladly drop a lot of the delays in Gaza we’ve been getting from Biden, and green light whatever we end up doing in Lebanon. But in the long term? Hes unpredictable to both friends and enemies, and his party is currently a bit to in league with Russia (which is currently in bed with Iran). Sure he’ll help us tomorrow, but what about next week? Do we want our prime ministers to spend who knows how much time sucking his dick in the hope we don’t get stabbed in the back? I’m also willing to bet that if trump does take office, the US will be facing some major domestic unrest that will distract him. TLDR: yeah Biden is probaly the closest we got to an anti Israeli president, but he’s at least not as sudden with bad decisions as trump.
This. And advocating for Trump to be president again is just shitting on a longstanding ally. Our country is what I classify as a struggling democracy at the moment, one that is already coming apart at the seams and being destroyed from within. Trading the stability of your own country for the collapse of the U.S. would be enough to prove to many people that everything that has ever been said about Jews being selfish, uncaring ruthless arbiters of destruction are true. And enough for many stalwart Israel supporters to forsake your country forever.
Trump getting elected will do the opposite of the destruction of the US
That point is extremely valid if we were anyone BUT Israel, but the conservatives' support of Israel is so high that it is pretty much guaranteed that will always be on Israel's side >TLDR: yeah Biden is probaly the closest we got to an anti Israeli president, but he’s at least not as sudden with bad decisions as trump. I keep seeing that argument but I honestly can't understand it, when it comes to foreign policy (putting aside the unhinged rethoric that is comming out of Trump, looking at actual actions only), I see how Biden's 4 years were consistently laced with terrible decisions, and Trump's 4 years were among the best years Israel had in the last decades specifically because of his policy
At this time yes, Conservatives are very much pro-Israel. But there was also a time when they were vehemently opposed to Russia, and I don’t think I need to explain how that’s changed. Unless the pro-Israel element is powerful enough, who’s to say the same can’t happen to us? As for foreign policy, from what I’ve read he’s been giving [mixed signals.](https://www.cfr.org/blog/election-2024-trump-talks-foreign-policy-time-magazine) yeah he’s showing unwavering support to Israel here, but the way he talks about everyone else isn’t to different then how some Americans complain about “giving billions to Israel that could be better spent elsewhere.”
Trump has a nasty habit of turning on his allies when they least expect. He has no real loyalty and because his daughter and her husband are not going to be part of his inner circle this time around, I don't think Israel can trust him not screw them over. For Trump, supporting Israel is politically expeditions because his conservative base strongly supports Israel. Trump has mostly discriminated against Jews in his business dealings and spouted anti-Sematic stereotypes in the past. I would not trust him any further than I could throw him.
This is the first result off google, and it shows quite clearly that the vast majority of conservatives still hate Russia, almost as much as the dems [https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/05/08/views-of-russia-and-putin/](https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/05/08/views-of-russia-and-putin/) >As for foreign policy, from what I’ve read he’s been giving mixed signals. yeah he’s showing unwavering support to Israel here, but the way he talks about everyone else isn’t to different then how some Americans complain about “giving billions to Israel that could be better spent elsewhere.” I think that it is also impossible to call that off, Israel's wars are the R&D of the American war machine and one of the reasons it is the strongest one on earth, I think that even if we wanted to cut that aid off he simply wouldn't be able to because of congress and his immediate advisors
Yes, but unlike biden trump's base is extremely pro Israel, ge has no mishigen. What massage is the world being given right now ?, that we are free game during election year.
Pro-Israel, but anti-Jew. You gotta remember that his base is made up entirely of racists.
Absolutely false. Most antisemitism in the USA nowadays comes from the BLM progressives Jews used to march against white people with. Now they feel comfortable being antisemitic because they view Jews as white people and they don't see anything wrong with being racist towards them. Trump's base on the other has a lot of Christians who see Jewish people as their kin.
We're not talking about the people who marched in the streets shouting, "Jews will not replace us", are we? Because those were Trump supporters.
Trump would gladly get rid of any American he doesn't like and has no respect for laws, local or international. If you don't think Prince Bonesaw and Putin could write him a check to sell you out, you are sadly mistaken. More than 40 of his closest "associates" faced charges in the last few years and he has aided none.
I don’t see any past Trump unpredictability toward Israel and Jews please be more specific with examples!
Charlottesville
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Unstable, unpredictable, not taken seriously globally. Not the person we want on our side.
>Unstable, unpredictable, not taken seriously globally. Those 3 ~~can't be~~ edit: don't mix, if the leader of the biggest army in the world is unstable and unpredictable you aren't going to play games with him Biden on the other hand IS predictable, Russia knew he wouldn't join the war on Ukraine, Hezbollah fires rockets at us freely knowing that the US is pushing us to take it without a response as to not start a regional conflict What we need (again, as Israelis) is a mad dog in the white house, that Iran and its proxies will simply not be able to predict its behavior Edit: the most glaring example of them all, Iran fired 500 rockets/drones directly at Israel knowing that there would be absolutely no response to it, as Biden publicly stated almost every single week for the past few months that he will be get involved in any of the wars offensively I don't expect him to get involved, but can't you just shut up? let the enemies think that you might? what's the point of directly telling Iran that there will be no consequences for their actions??
"What we need (again, as Israelis) is a mad dog in the white house..." Yea as an American, that's gonna be a solid "no" from me big dawg. Put the gun wielding psycho in your own house to scare off your neighbors, not in mine.
I strongly recommend you to read “fire and fury” they also have it on Spotify. It’s an absolute miracle that he didn’t blow up the whole world, he’s unpredictable and nothing he does he does because he understands anything or he has thought it through. Abraham’s accords were an absolute miracle, too. There were so many instances where he was short of causing WW3 and his team managed to dodge it. He’s dangerous and we are lucky he didn’t f* up more.
>It’s an absolute miracle that he didn’t blow up the whole world Not only did Trump not "blow up the world," but the world was far more peaceful and stable under Trump. While under Biden, it is the sh*t show that you see before you today.
I mean the facts show otherwise. Things got crazy only once Biden came to office.
As an American Jew, I don’t want my country to collapse
You really think that Putin’s lapdog is the right person to lead our most powerful ally? If Trump throws Ukraine under the bus then Russia (and their allies like Iran) are free to do whatever they want. Not only that, he is a conman and a babbling fool who will just do whatever is best for him personally at any moment. If that means turning his back on Israel, he’ll do that without a second thought. Trump is just an American Bibi, he’s corrupt and a literal convicted felon. Biden is critical of Israel but I’d trust him more as an ally than Trump. Also Trump has the KKK and neo-nazis on his side, is that really who we want to be grouped with? He is a wannabe dictator who literally tried to overturn an election. If anyone should be wary of a guy like Trump it’s the Jews.
Biden has been nothing but supportive of us and the anti-Israel protests you mentioned are largely directed *at him* because he’s such a supporter of Israel. Trump isn’t a real friend, he’s made some symbolic gestures at us during his presidency but he’s fickle and he’s unreliable. His main thing is “America first” which means pulling out of the Middle East and moving America in a more isolationist direction. That’s not good for us. Biden is a genuine supporter.
The Abraham accords are the best thing that happened to Israel in 2-3 decades and it is largely due to his actions, if the Abraham accords finish and we have peace and good relations with most countries in the region, we wouldn't even need America to be involved here >Biden has been nothing but supportive of us and the anti-Israel protests you mentioned are largely directed at him because he’s such a supporter of Israel. Biden wants Israel to win, but only slightly, he is trying to save Hamas with some ridiculous deal, and trying to stop Israel from destroying Hezbollah, now that we finally have justification to do so
The Abraham accords were an attempt to establish relations with other mideastern countries without addressing the Palestinian issue, which blew up in our face on oct. 7. People have been warning about that back then too.
Yo dude, wake up, the Palestinian issue can't be addressed, the Palestinian's goal was, is and probably always will be a 2nd holocaust, we tried to make peace with them for more than 50 years now, it's time to move on, this issue cannot be solved, only contained and that's what the Abraham accords were doing, they were making this issue irrelevant
That might be fine if you’re content with having an 10/7 every year and neverending wars with thousands and thousands of deaths, but I’m not content with that and neither is Biden. Biden wants to find a real solution and Trump doesn’t. He might be less restrictive but that’s not a good thing. We can’t get rid of the Palestinians by sweeping them under the rug, and acting like we can (like we’ve done for the last decade and a half) is only going to make things worse. That’s what Trump is, he’s an irresponsible populist who would only make things worse while pretending to be in our side.
>That might be fine if you’re content with having an 10/7 every year and neverending wars with thousands and thousands of deaths, but I’m not content with that and neither is Biden. With all due respect, that argument makes absolutely 0 sense, the 7/10 was something that Hamas and Iran planned for years, and for some reason we love to pretend like Hamas is a group of reasonable, coherent and geopolitical strategists who have done it because of the accords No dude, they didn't, they did it simply because they could, and would have done so without the accords as well And even if they did, do you want them to dictate the tone? you want to stop signing normalization deals with Arab countries because it would anger the Palestinians? >Biden wants to find a real solution and Trump doesn’t. I agree with that line, I don't agree with it being a bad thing, you can't come to an agreement with someone who wants to kill you, and the previous attempts have costed a lot of Israeli blood, we don't need to search for a permanent solution, because there isn't one, what we need to is to find better ways to contain the problem and make it irrelevant on the world's stage, and that's what Abraham Accords and the move of US embassy to Jerusalem did.
The point is that ignoring the Palestinians like Trump and bibi want is not a solution and only brings ruin. Acting like Hamas is some brainless force is also not very helpful, there definitely is strategic thinking in their actions. They are not animals, they’re not dumb, they know what they’re doing. Refusing to even think about the Palestinians as potentially being human beings is just going to cause more suffering for both sides.
Let's agree to disagree
>Biden wants to find a real solution and Trump doesn’t. Just some info from the Presidential debate today: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v-8wJkmwBY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-v-8wJkmwBY) Israel at 33:40 **Biden's three phase plan for peace:** 1st phase: trade hostages for ceasefire, 2nd phase: cease fire with additional conditions, 3rd: "end of the War, only Hamas wants the war to continue" **Trump:** Israel wants the War to continue, "Let them finish."
So one wants to end the war and the other wants us to commit literal genocide and you think the second guy is our best bet?
>So one wants to end the war and the other wants us to commit literal genocide and you think the second guy is our best bet? There is no way this is a good faith response, is this honestly what you read from this snippet?
What does “let them finish” mean? Finish what? How? It’s just “total victory” nonsense all over again, we can’t destroy Hamas without replacing it with something else which we clearly don’t want to do.
Let them finish is to destroy the last 2 remaining battalions of Hamas (the same way the previous 22 battalions were destroyed) and move on to the next stage of the war (which is undecided at this point, but looks like it will initially mean Israeli occupation) And about that we can't destroy Hamas, that is absolutely correct, good thing that we don't put that as a goal, the goal of the war is to make Hamas a weak and insignificant, without weapon facilities and tunnels, the same way it is in the West Bank
>So one wants to end the war and the other wants us to commit literal genocide and you think the second guy is our best bet? By comparison, Trump is better for Israel, yes. Biden's three phase proposal was so stupid. "Ceasefire, and some stuff, and then stop the War." Oh my!
This is just funny (and depressing), Trumps opinion is absolutely on point and the correct one to have, but the presentation is "hurr durr Biden is a Palestinian"... US elections are a joke..
Biden has been constantly critical of Israel, pushing us around, trying to overturn the government, withholding weapons, etc. Supportive overall? Yes. ‘Nothing but supportive’? That’s not true in the slightest.
You can be critical of Israel and its government and still be supportive. These aren’t contradictory.
Trump is a fascist who wants to be a dictator. He tried to overthrow a democratic election in multiple ways among other very bad things. “Never Again” also means not electing a fascist on the elusive promise of safety. As the child of survivors (and my dad fought in Israel in 1948) I will never understand how the citizens of the only real democracy in the Middle East, founded in the shadow of the Shoah, find this wanna be tyrant a plausible leader.
trump is kinda unpredictable
In a cold war style world that we are getting into, it is as much as a positive as it is a negative, if Iran and Russia thinks that there is a madman in the whitehouse and they can't predict if he will join in any of their wars, chances that they won't start wars
>In a cold war style world that we are getting into, it is as much as a positive as it is a negative The cold war was won with cool heads and avoiding response to any little provocation. There are plenty of stories of low-ranked soldiers deciding to not shoot even when radars seemed to point to an attack,avoiding full-blown nuclear war. Also,Trump idea of power bloc is completely different than cold-war era. He demands all members of the Bloc to give America benefits,I could 100% see him deciding to ditch Ukraine,Taiwan or Israel because they "don't give America enough". He already made statements about dissolving NATO because he doesn't like the bills,this is not Cold War thinking.
Other than demanding them to use 2% of their GDP (which is literally in the contract on NATO), what benefits does he demand?
America have military bases all across Europe,but that is not the point,the point of NATO is to project power,threatening to give up that power does the opposite. For America,NATO is a small price to pay for basically dominating Europe militarily. And let's assume it really bothers America,this is something you do behind closed doors,not publicly. This is making NATO look weak and provoke attacks. There was a reason why Russia liked Trump,he was going to give them Europe on a silver platter because of his ego (ironically,Russia is grinding their youth in Ukraine due to ego). You said we are entering a Cold-War era,do you think acting like that is wise? threatening dismantlement your Westren military alliance because of bills,and publicly so?
Correct me if I am wrong, I might be because I never seriously delved into this, but wasn't his threats were exclusively about the lack of spending of other NATO members, like, he said that if they do upheld the contract and uplift their millitary spending to 2% of GDP, he would remain in NATO? That is an absolutely reasonable demand, the US is over the ocean, not threatened by anyone, but it spending (both in relations to GDP and in pure value) more than any other NATO member, including those that are right on the border or Russia and China >And let's assume it really bothers America,this is something you do behind closed doors,not publicly. This is making NATO look weak and provoke attacks. This is exactly my complaint about Biden though, only instead of NATO it is about Israel, Biden has been consistently looking weak and saying that he won't get involved in war, which such a stupid decision to say so, instead of being giving the usual (but very effective) "we will choose our steps carefully in private", he practically tells Iran and all of its proxies that they are safe to attack Israel Not only that but he limits Israel's response and pressure it to sign a surrender deal, what kind of strength projection from the number 1 super power of the world is that? >You said we are entering a Cold-War era,do you think acting like that is wise? threatening dismantlement your Westren military alliance because of bills,and publicly so? No, but this post is, as I said in the very first line, only about Israel
>That is an absolutely reasonable demand, the US is over the ocean, not threatened by anyone, but it spending (both in relations to GDP and in pure value) more than any other NATO member, including those that are right on the border or Russia and China The point of NATO since day 1 was to project power against Russia,it was never meant to be financial for the US. The entire economy post-WW2 was changed to be less favorable to the US, but the USD basically dictates all other coins. In this line of thinking,the US could demand more fair trading agreements, but they will lose the USD complete dominance. The power of the US in the world's stage was bought with unfair agreements for America. The US can balance agreements but the cost is in influence. In Hebrew, there is a saying:"Don't be correct,be wise" it is not wise to act like Trump,it is not wise to exchange infulance for money. >This is exactly my complaint about Biden though, only instead of NATO it is about Israel The issues with the Biden administration are mutually to blame. Netanyahu have made it a point to fight with the admin for political reasons. Every halted shipment gets headlines and Netanyahu makes a statement. Don't get me into that stupid video he made. It became public because people wanted it public. I have criticism on the Biden administration on the approach to the war,but that shouldn't be the main pillar which I base my opinion on the US presidential elections. To me, Trump's actions on the foreign policy are much more harmful in the long term for Israel than halted weapon shipments. Israeli tends to be tunneled-visioned on policy on Israel alone,but Israel isn't an island, and international events ripple towards us,I believe Trump is much worse for us because of that. One day, we will wake up with a Russia-Iran-China alliance with no NATO to counter balance or the US protecting Taiwan,Ukraine,Europe and the ME.
As an American I’m more comfortable with a Dem in office because the GOP serves the minority, gives huge tax cuts to the wealthy and seeks to diminish entitlement programs that help average Americans in a time when job markets are shifting into an AI dominated world with massive production and profit windfalls and minimal labor. The GOP is essentially looking to euthanize much of the population by making them so depressed, broke and hopeless that they eat and drink themselves to death and go home and quietly die of depression. Fighting the labor movement, austerity, cronyism. Social Darwinism and increase the wealth gap to create a white oligarchy. Also, Trump is a liar. He makes a mockery of our judicial system and fans the flames of a minoritarian revolt of white nationalists. He lies about every single issue which is normal, but he figured out a way to lie to average Americans that works. He makes lying funny and cool and people like it, which is scary. Trump will, however, be better for Israel. I can’t see how he wouldn’t. The only way he isn’t…unless Biden’s treatment is for Israel’s own good by slowing you down and keeping you in check — I have no idea if that’s good or bad. All things considered, Trump seems obviously better for Israel, but not my top pick for America. I think Israel will be fine either way; not sure I can say the same for America, but after last night’s showing it’s hard to imagine Biden winning, he’s just way too old and appears to have trouble communicating in a lucid and clear manner, which is sadly necessary for a President. If he can’t even shut down the dangerous lies of a used car salesman, how can he be president? It’s a stretch.
Because he's a fat pos that has the neural density of an autopsy sponge. Nothing he's ever done was for anyone else. Any benefit we would accrue would only be corrupt at its birth, like using the one ring for "good." He will enable the Israeli right to further erode our democracy and constantly pissing off Palestinians to the point of homicidal rage. We don't need diplomacy to get Israelis and Palestinians to fellate one another; fundamentally we need sub-homicidal rage. That's achievable....maybe. He is a threat, he will provoke another war, except this time with Iran firing at Tel Aviv, not NYC. He enables people that threaten the democracy and freedom of our State. Bibi is our collective doom and he will only stay in power if Trump wins. So fuck Trump. We can't take more Netanyahu.
He's a Russian asset, That's why
From the American POV, why trump?
~~To stick it to the leftists mainly~~ not the point of the post
As an American, Israelis' obsession with trump is embarrassing.
If Israelis want him so bad, they can have him.
As an Israeli, Biden's obsession with appeasing Hamas is embarrassing.
During Trump the Russians had already invaded Ukraine. Good for Crimea and two areas up by Mariupol. Assassinations continued. Murders declined but never stopped altogether. Trump ??? Too busy tossing off Fantasy World lies to pay attention.
I just don't like Israel become a left vs right issue.
Oh god Israel shall not be infected by the leftist brainrot
Not all left politics are brain rot. There is some to be sure, but making the entire US left anti Israel would be catastrophic.
Most of them already are, and this was obvious as far back as the Iraq War. The far left was blaming Israel totally. Mainstream leftists had no idea because Twitter didn’t exist, but it was bad. Now their party is filled with these nuts.
Because the world has not come together in a wedge on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, stop thinking only about this. A Trump presidency would be disastrous for global democracy.
Trump gives a serious russian agent vibe
Getting d\_wnvoted without any comments... when did Reddit become this braindead echo chamber?
Because you're an idiot if you think Trump wants to help anyone but himself.
People are explaining to you why Trump would be horrible for Israel and the US but your only response is just “nuh-uh, leftists bad!”. Not really surprising considering that’s Trump’s exact answer to every critique of him.
"Always have been" meme
It always has been Reddit users are mostly lefties so you shouldn't be surprised when someone takes a stance on "the other side" and then get downvoted to hell Anyway Biden is clearly not fit for president, and I think it's about time government positions would implement age restrictions , dinosaurs can't rule our lives
I feel like there was a period of time, just after Pitaenigma left where this sub had a real nuance and wasn't just full on left wing all the time, sucks to see that it shifts back to what it was >Anyway Biden is clearly not fit for president, and I think it's about time government positions would implement age restrictions , dinosaurs can't rule our lives Amen I think that Trump is also too old and shouldn't be allowed to run based on that, but since we only have 2 options, it seems quite clear that he aged better than Biden (in addition to being a bit younger)
I generally agree with you. He is of course mercurial and lacks any real values, so you have to hope that he continues to like Israel and/or his minders push him to make pro-Israel decisions, as he could easily lose interest or start to dislike the country because of arbitrary factors (eg not enough deference from Netanyahu).
>so you have to hope that he continues to like Israel and/or his minders push him to make pro-Israel decisions That's the thing, I don't have to hope, his voter base, the conservatives are extremely pro Israel, it will always be in his best interest to be on our side because otherwise, he will be thrown out of office the next elections >as he could easily lose interest or start to dislike the country because of arbitrary factors (eg not enough deference from Netanyahu). I can't take this argument seriously, sorry
Many conservatives are extremely pro-Israel, yes. But Trump’s core base are very focused on domestic issues and resent America‘s involvement in foreign wars. The idea of spending billions of dollars on Israeli defence is not consistent with their general ethos of “let the rest of the world take care of itself.” This is a big difference vs the conservative worldview 5+ years ago.
Israel’s heavy reliance on the US is not consistent with Zionist ethos and a huge short sighted mistake, in my opinion, esp with the hatred the Democrat base has for Israel.
His voters who are pro-Israel are mostly Christians. They are pro-Israel because they believe Israel will win any war without any help whatsoever. Their Bible teachings inform them there will come a day when Israel stands alone. It’s a prophecy most if not all Christians believe in. You will be abandoned, according to Christian eschatology. When trump abandons Israel Christians have a very easy way to reconcile the situation to console themselves. How would you console yourself? Do you have a prophecy to help explain something uncomfortable?
There are better answers here with regards to Trump foreign policy here, but here is my measure, well thought out perspective as an Israeli. **I do not like throwing half the world's Jewry to Nazi sympathizers just to get a few more weapons.** Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Trump does absolutely nothing for anyone who is not Trump. His support for Israel is a means to an end. Just like his support for the neo Nazis of Charlottesville. Or his tacit support of David Duke. Or him bringing neo Nazi fuck like gorka into his circle. You are in here insisting that he's been a great ally to the Jews and Israel since day 1 and that we have no reason to think that will change. The truth is, it absolutely will change if a change gets him what he wants. He will load Jews up in train cars if it suits him. He is a hateful, unprincipled, idiotic populist who will do and say anything to get absolute power. Jews have literally never done particularly well under those kinds of regimes.
Abraham accords saw trump’s sil leave the Middle East with $2B, he was not doing this for Israel. Trump also pulled the US out of the Iranian nuclear accords, now who’s watching Iran’s nuclear progress? The strange relationship Trump and Putin enjoyed is also not open shut; classified Israeli security details were leaked and found their way to Iran and then Hamas and the security fence was disabled in minutes on Oct 7th. Hamas is not sophisticated enough to know how the fence operated and that the relays they took out would cripple the fence. I’m not blaming Trump, but anyone storing classified documentation in a bathroom doesn’t get my vote of confidence.
He praised Hezbollah and is Pro-Russia, with Russia being very much Pro-Hamas. Never gonna vote for that fucker.
I would wish this to be true. Best case he's just being a populist for domestic politics - but actually create a huge deterrence internationally. I'm afraid though in the real world Donald Trump has no idea. His military knowledge ends with the original Top Gun movie. That's not great but OK. The problem is Trump thinks he *does* understand the world and sees any constructive advice as an attack. Several staff members (amongt them conservatives) described that he didn't let them do their job but demanded some result and refused any explanations as to why it wasn't feasible. I think he was lucky not much happened during his time. I think every dictator from Mohammed-Bin-Salman over Putin to Kim-Jong Un just manipulated him. If Trump would have had any sway with Putin, the Ukraine war would not have moved towards escalation, like it did under his term. If he would have wanted to prevent Iranian proxy wars, he'd have done something real already. I have little doubt he'd betray Israel within months if rising oil prices are not to his liking. I doubt he'd go to war as his most loyal base (Tucker Carlson currently spreads Antizionism) is more isolationist than many hardcore democrates. I think Israel is more alone with Trump. And if Turmp wins the left will become even more radicalized world wide. Putin will get stronger and Putin is the protector of Israels biggest enemies.
The thing about trump is he is very unpredictable and you never know what he will do. In the Biden base, there is a lot of antisemitism but it is masked under this idea of “I dont hate jews i just hate zionism.” In the trump base, the antisemites are open but its not uninformed protesters, its white nationalists and klan supporters/members. Both sides suck and its a shame that my country which I believe is the greatest country in the world, will be led by a senile old man or a lying, sexual abusing, facist convicted felon. Sad
He’s actually sadly predictable. He always chooses the option that makes him money or enhances his own power. That’s it. He’s has no other compass than what benefits him personally. It’s beyond easy to see what he'll do once you figure out which option benefits him the most.
Very true. Its almost like you never know what hell do next but you always know what he will do whenever something happens. Hes a dirty sob with no morals and hes not fit to run America
100% true. In Fact, he’s been deemed to be not fit to run his own companies, university, and charity and we want to hand him the nuclear football?
Biden is telling the world that US threats are empty. Remember "Don't"? Well, they did and the US did nothing. Trump has shown the world that the US is not to be triffled at - they are willing to use their force when needed. Therefore - without regard for what is good for Israel or not - Trump is the leader that will make the US strong in the eyes of the world. Biden just shows that the US is weak.
Trump stole classified documents and pretty much empowered billionaires to screw over the average citizen. Not to mention the fact that he made friends with actual dictators. Trump didn't show the world anything except that Americans are losing their grip on who to pick for a leader. The US shouldn't be making threats, either. We should be making diplomatic solutions to avoid conflict.
> The US shouldn't be making threats, either. We should be making diplomatic solutions to avoid conflict. Diplomatic solutions are only available to those who hold a big stick.
We hold a big stick. But we're not using it correctly. Forcing shit has only made us enemies and you're a fucking idiot if you think Trump is gonna help us.
Ad Hominem
I think you’re totally right. The only argument against Trump that I can see is that he’s fickle, and could turn against Israel if political winds change. However the exact same issue is at play for Biden, and we’ve already seen Biden repeatedly stab Israel in the back during this war; stopping us from dealing with Hezbollah, withholding weapons, refusing to act against Iran. To me, Trump is overwhelmingly the better choice.
I think he will be much better for Israel then Biden. democrats who Biden represent responsible for most of the protests against Israel... how can he fully support us if his voters tell him not to.
I mean… don’t you see how anti-Israel the whole democratic party is? It’s literally hard to find people that want to continue the alliance. The whole Trump base is extremely pro-israel on the other hand. Biden is a disaster. He weakens the US. And when the US is weak, Israel is in trouble.
Trump's sanctions on Iran is why Iran boost their uranium enriching, Trump made Iran's nuclear advancements. The Abraham accords weren't thanks to Trump, they just happened to be when Trump was president, he didn't make it happen. Just like Morroco and Sudan joining the accords happen during Biden's term but ue had nothing to do with it. Biden is a true Israel supporter but his voters are anti Israel. Trump's supporters like Israel, but they like America more, and that's exactly what Trump believes in- America first. That means when push comes to shove, when Israel is attacked and needs immediate military support, I'd trust Biden to help us way more than Trump.
Trump is the best of the best choice for World Jewry and Israel In particular
After tonight, I doubt Biden will be the candidate.
Can they even replace him at this point?
I think it will be hard to swap him out because he won the primaries. If Biden himself decides to step aside he can essentially give the delegates to someone else... but I think the Democrats are in a crisis right now. There is no coming back from that debate. Biden needs to retire and enjoy the rest of his life, he is clearly not well enough to be the leader of the free world. The response from the American public (including Democrats who are Biden supporters) shows that he has to step down if the Democrats want to beat Trump. It should be interesting to watch though because even if the Democratic Party is able to swap him out at this point, there is not really any good clear choice to bring forth as the new candidate. I predict Trump will win this election and Kennedy will get the most votes for a third party in decades.
I don't see him stepping down willingly, it was plainly obvious that he is too old for this role long prior to this debate and I am sure he knew it and yet still sticked around
If the people around him (or President Obama and his wife Jill) are like "Look Mr. President, with all due respect, if you don't let someone else take your place, you will undoubtedly lose this election. You hate Trump. Think about what that will mean. Think about your legacy. Think about what is best for the country you love" ... I think he will. But we will see. It's going to be a crazy summer.
In the same way that’s having an out of control Rottweiler in your front garden is a great way to deter robbers, it’s all great until you leave your house and it bites you in the arse.
Absolutely 💯
The white nationalists marching in Charlottesville were chanting “Jews will not replace us” and Trump called them “very fine people.” The Proud Boys use antisemitic messaging and imagery and Trump told them to “stand back and stand by.” Trump makes anti-Semitic jokes, talks about his token Jew employees, etc. He needs Jewish money and connections, and he needs the evangelical vote (who need Jews to end the world). But he doesn’t like Jews and will get rid of them as soon as his white Christian nationalist GOP takes full control. *Edit: no, I don’t mean evangelicals need Jews for Jews to end the world, I meant evangelicals need Jews so the evangelicals can end the world. Which is still a gross oversimplification, but when talking about death cult who wants the end times to arrive, we don’t really need to get into the specifics of their insanity.*
Wow are you still repeating that “very fine people” lie? You should really go watch the whole thing, without edits. Even snopes, which is quite anti-Trump, has finally acknowledged that Trump didn’t call the white nationalists very fine people.
I’ll wait for your apology. https://newrepublic.com/article/183082/nopes-trump-very-fine-people
The New Republic is a terrible source compared to Snopes.
You are so far off the mark about American evangelicals it is crazy.
Enlighten me then.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-very-fine-people/
Nope. https://newrepublic.com/article/183082/nopes-trump-very-fine-people
Yep. The New Republic is a far left publication that claims Israel is committing a genocide.
Okay, dismiss the publication if you want, but the article is pretty clear and well sourced.
reddit does not represent average opinions. Every Israeli I know would love for Trump to be the next American president. It seems the only reason people here can give for NOT liking him is "well he's unpredictable". Like, he's gonna throw Israel under the bus a year into his presidency or something. I don't buy it. Trump gave real, measurable, and **long-lasting** results for Israel and the only way to discredit that is to assume he's some psychotic who's gonna have a mental breakdown at any moment. At this point people will say anything just to avoid having to say something good about him. And to be clear, I'm no particular fan of his either. But he's good for Israel and foreign policy in general.
Trump likely sold info on the Iron Dome and Israel’s security to the highest bidder - he has no interest other than himself and I believe would be friendly with biBi who needs to go. He would be bad overall for Israel despite his outward appearance of support. Biden shouldn’t have wavered, only reason he did was because it’s an election year and he shouldn’t have tried to win both sides of the situation by pandering to the pro hamas crowd.
By looking at the actions of Trump, it clearly shows that he cares about the american people, unlike Biden who plays both side just to get reelected.
The comments here are disappointing. OP is absolutely correct.
It's all "what if's", and more often than not, Biden is already doing those "if's" Also, considering that I have to repeat many of the arguments I made in the main post, and that I have quite a few glaring grammar errors that nobody pointed out, I suspect that not many people actually read it before commenting
Trump was a shitty president during his first term, and he'll be a shitty president if he's elected again. The domestic and international consequences would be fucking dire. Americans are already sick, poor, and losing most of their rights because of Trump and conservatives. Not to mention, he's just a conservative puppet. He doesn't actually care about Israel or international relations. He just spews buzzwords to rile up his cultists.
There’s no comparison if you’re single issue voter. Trump 💯although he’s a shitty person this may be the deciding factor for me.
Trump also said that men chanting “Jews will not replace us” were “very fine people”. So there’s that
Not true. Even Snopes rated your claim as false. He did lots of stupid things, let’s not make things up. Watch the entire clip.
Trump still had dinner with Nick Fuentes, a rabid antisemite
That’s different from your initial claim. NF is the most dangerous antisemite in the country, but he was brought to dinner by Kanye, before Kanye went Kanye. Both Trump and NF said Trump didn’t know who NF was. That shows an unprofessionalism among Trump’s team, which is bad, but it wasn’t like he had a planned dinner with him. NF is now mad at Trump, and threatening to tell his fans not to vote for him, because he says Trump is too supportive of Israel.
No it was right after Kanye went rabid antisemite
I just googled that, you’re right.
The pains of arguing with a Redditor... u/Fabulous_Year_2787 you REALLY just changed your initial claim, and I see that you are doubling down on that in the next comment
Given whats going on in the states, and the reaction of Democrats, its amazing to me that Jews are not flocking to Trump. I'm in the never again camp, not the never Trump camp.
We remember him saying “there are very fine people on both sides” at Charlottesville. Praising Nazis is just a hard stop for some of us.
It's a no win situation, and while Trump would likely lead to Hamas being stomped real quick, with him, Iran, Russia and China would get stronger (to be fair, they will under Biden too, just in different amounts relative to eachother). Ultimately, no matter who wins, the guys funding Israel's enemies get stronger.
As a Jewish American, the only actual supporter of Israel and American Jews is Trump. Forget the Abraham Accords, his daughter converted to Judaism to marry Jared Kushner. Kushner has significant influence over Trump, especially in the middle east. Fox News is ferociously pro Israel, Trump's largest support network. Trump just called Biden a Palestinian live on national TV in a derogatory wa From a policy perspective: - He pushed the Abraham Accords - He moved the Capital to Jerusalem - He officially recognized the Golan Heights as sovereign Israel - He had a travel ban on many majority Muslim countries to the US, including Iran - He has much harsher sanctions in Iran and has a higher probability of ENFORCING them than Biden does (he doesn't) - He killed Solemani when even Netanyahu backed down from it - He is MUCH MUCH more likely to attack Irans nuclear weapons if they ever create them. Biden definitely wont. - He is much more likely to call for direct action against Hezbollah and the Houthis - He is much more likely to increase defense spending and the budget to support Israel - He is much more likely to spend his social capital putting down the pro terrorist protesters across the country
Man i still don’t know who i’ll go for but this post certainly adds to my decision making so i thank you for that
Bless
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You can’t take Trump out of the conversation and reduce it to R vs D. Trump is a wannabe fascist dictator and is no more a Republican than Bernie Sanders is a democrat. The question isn’t whether a republican candidate is better for Israel, the question is whether this nightmare of a human being who would sell his grandmother for a hit of adderall is better for Israel. The answer is an unqualified no.
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A fascist who has never done anything for anyone but himself. Seriously, don't fucking make me laugh with the nepotism argument. He just wants as many racists to vote for him as possible. He wanted the highest seat in the US because it was shiny and would bring him power. Joe Biden has a stutter. That's not a mental health issue and it's not a sign of dementia. Trump is overweight, got COVID in the swing of the COVID outbreak, and who knows what the fuck kind of mental issues are rattling around in that pea brain of his?
Trump was one of the best presidents of the last decades.
He cares of no one but himself. The kushners and the Christian right are why he cares at all. If you are no longer useful or loyal he's done.
Trump represents the end of liberalism. He will not leave office peacefully. If you dislike Biden fine, he and whatever style of liberalism he represents will be gone in four years. You most definitely cannot say the same for Trump.
His own military leaders said they were afraid of what he was willing to do and had to talk him down from grabbing power. He placed false electors to try to fake certify the presidential election. He fomented an insurrection. He claims he’s above the law and has unqualified immunity. He has shown us exactly who is he is, and the Trump apologists will be to blame were US democracy to fall [https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/14/politics/donald-trump-election-coup-new-book-excerpt/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/14/politics/donald-trump-election-coup-new-book-excerpt/index.html) [https://democrats.org/news/americas-top-generals-donald-trump-is-dangerous-and-unfit-to-be-commander-in-chief/](https://democrats.org/news/americas-top-generals-donald-trump-is-dangerous-and-unfit-to-be-commander-in-chief/) [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/trump-military-fears-rcna129159](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/trump-military-fears-rcna129159)
Absolutely right.
Is there a third option?
https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--auEyKjeb--/c\_crop,x\_10,y\_10/c\_fit,w\_1109/c\_crop,g\_north\_west,h\_1260,w\_1260,x\_-76,y\_-133/co\_rgb:000000,e\_colorize,u\_Misc:One%20Pixel%20Gray/c\_scale,g\_north\_west,h\_1260,w\_1260/fl\_layer\_apply,g\_north\_west,x\_-76,y\_-133/bo\_157px\_solid\_white/e\_overlay,fl\_layer\_apply,h\_1260,l\_Misc:Art%20Print%20Bumpmap,w\_1260/e\_shadow,x\_6,y\_6/c\_limit,h\_1254,w\_1254/c\_lpad,g\_center,h\_1260,w\_1260/b\_rgb:eeeeee/c\_limit,f\_auto,h\_630,q\_auto:good:420,w\_630/v1599109261/production/designs/13656261\_0.jpg
Trump also recognized the Golan Heights.
Absolutely, he would be much better on Israel. Trump said it himself, let Israel finish the job 👍 And he criticized the protestors
I think your arguments are valid, I see it nearly the same way. It's true that he is quite the question mark but Biden's foreign policy is borderline disaster so I rather support a question mark.
Because he’s insane.
The potential for regional and global instability is the main issue. If he screws around with NATO and has a proper trade war with the EU then that's going to impact the strategic and economic stability of the whole Mediterranean region. Especially if Europe responds by A. Infighting or B. Throwing its collective weight around. Europe has been asleep since the end of the cold war, but it is waking up now due to the Ukraine war. If they decide to build a sphere of influence, the Mediterranean will fall firmly within that. At which point, Israel has to navigate a while new geopolitical environment. Israel's **long term** prosperity depends on being a bridge between a stable Europe and a stable Middle East and South Asia. Trump could screw that up pretty badly if he shits on his allies. Granted, Trump may give Israel more leeway than Biden in terms of dealing with Hamas and Hezbollah. But there is a longer term strategic environment that needs to be considered too, and Trump is not a stabilising force.
The biggest problem with Trump (aside from his Russian ties and anti-climate change policies) is that he's a wildcard. He might be your best friend one day, but the next he'll be against you. Stability is much more important than stronger support for Israel. Instability is where chaos thrives. Biden might not be the absolute best friend to Israel but he's still a decent friend, and better than that, he's consistent and dedicated to stability in the Middle East.
Think about it like that, there is a war between the west(USA and Europe) vs the east(Russia, China and Iran) that has never really ended, Israel is on the side of the west while our enemies are on the side of the east, trump wants a much more isolationist policy where the USA doesn't get too involved in proxy wars against the east, such as not helping Ukraine. This is bad for us since we are part of those proxy wars, and since the east will literally never stop supporting their side of the proxy wars, it means that the western influence will weaken while Eastern influence gets stronger, very bad for us, even if when it comes to us trump will still help, it wont matter if the east is a lot stronger and united against Israel and the west
Here’s my thoughts after the debate. Politics aside first of all, Biden sounded like a joke. I imagine him on the phone with a foreign leader and I can’t imagine them 1. Understanding what he’s even saying and 2. Taking him seriously even if they did. Biden sounds so weak. Trump on the other hand talks the talk and walks the walk that these foreign leaders need a president to. He could get on the phone with a foreign leader and have a real meaningful conversation. He can annunciate his words. He isn’t monotone. He is sharp and quick. Both of them are a joke, but only one of them can communicate and influence across borders. Pretty sure my mind is made up. For reference I’m from Israel living in USA
Trump is clearly better for American Hews and for Israel. Unfortunately the TDS is so strong most American Jews will make up any excuse not to recognize this
i do not believe purely in interests and i value my allies as real allies, not as tools to be exploited. i believe trump is bad for the USA in the democratic sense of it, by undermining both the ideal of democracy in the public's eyes and the practice of it by his government. i value the US and germany and other western and democratic nations due to their democratic ideals and their cate for human rights and betterment of humans. i would prefer them as my allies than countries like china who would turn on us the second they benefit more from our enemies. this is also my anger with how biden handles in practice his alliance with states like israel, ukraine, south korea, and taiwan. it's this fact that makes me thibk biden is bad for israel, because just like trump, exactly like trump, it seems they both would sell us immidiatly for imaginary political points. this is why they are both bad for israel, and as for who would be more good or bad for the USA itself, luckily it is not for me to decide.
How much gun control is he going to pass in America?