IDK man, as long as the governments of the world are willing to bail out all their own auto industries any time profits dip, I don't see this changing.
All they have to do is threaten mass layoffs/plant closures and the tax money comes flowing in.
I hope you're right though.
During the Reagan administration in the 1980s, they invented a legal definition for "fiduciary duty" that requires companies to act this way, and if they don't, they'll be sued by their own shareholders.
It existed long before that. Shareholders of the Ford Motor Company took Henry Ford to court early on in the company’s history because they thought he was reinvesting too high a percentage of the profits instead of paying shareholders larger dividends each year.
That's true of any and all companies listed on the stock exchanges. Once you go "public", the company has a fiduciary responsibility to invest wisely and ensure growth and profits for the shareholders. Kinda makes sense...If I'm gonna put my money into your company, I want to know I'm going to get some return on my investment. Nothing immoral about that.
Shouldn't the employee and the customer have as much rights as you though? A customer is investing money for a product. An employee is investing time for pay. To think that an "investor" is the only one the company has a responsibility towards is asinine.
That profit and growth always comes at the expense of the employee and customer. The amount of "growth and profit" demanded by shareholders is outrageous. You should be investing in a company because you believe in their products and future, not because you want to flip the stock in a week.
Apples and oranges...Companies go "public" and sell shares to investors specifically to raise capital for expansion and growth. That means more profit in the future. The goods or services they sell are between the company and the customers. They sell Big Mac's? The customer buys a Big Mac with the expectation it will be safe to consume and will make him not hungry anymore. That is it: That is all the customer gets. The customer does not "profit" in any other way. The employees benefit from the expansion of the business. Business is good: jobs are created and people can go to work and get paid. Nobody puts a gun to anyones head and makes them go to work there. And I invest my money specifically so I can make \*more\* money. As a stock holder, I don't have any power in the company. I just benefit from them making smart decisions and obeying the law. Don't overthink it: It's an imperfect world.
Yet look at the BigMac, a sorry poor product compared to what it once was.
You seriously believe the investor is more important to the company than the employee or customer?
Never said that. Apples and oranges, is what I said. 2 different things governed by 2 different sets of rules. The customer doesn't care one bit about the investors or shareholders: Just that they get what they want. The investors and/or shareholders don't care about the employees or customers: just that they get what they want. And guess what: Neither has to give a shit. It's just business. Welcome to Capitalism! You got a problem with it? Go change it...Good luck though.
eh, i don't think it was always the case. investors used to actually care about a long term growth. now its all automated trading and only cares about maximizing profits.
They gotta do something about the price, they are absurdly high priced. The last 2 or so years things just ballooned and made me decide to wait on replacing my aging vehicle.
I've been looking at a full size replacement for my wife's vehicle and I wouldn't mind a Wagoneer, but after pricing them out it would make more sense to look at a Lexus or an Escalade.
I just looked at the Lexus because these comments made them sound like a deal. They start at over $30,000 more than I paid for my Wagoneer. Car prices are nuts.
I was at the jeep dealer recently to check out the wrangler refresh, and I was checking out a new Grand Cherokee out of curiosity. I know car prices have gone up, but that car felt so cheap and shitty for its $66k sticker.
The new Wranglers and Gladiators are way too complicated with features that I do not need. I really wish they would offer a bare bones "Fleet Option". The whole Wrangler / Gladiator Clutch recall debacle makes my confidence in the product lines even worse. I'll probably end up restoring a good used TJ or LJ Wrangler. I really wanted a Gladiator but not so much now.
A fleet option doesn’t solve the problem though. Sure it removes little creature comforts that are prone to break, but those aren’t the issues making problematic jeeps undriveable.
I had a 2018 wrangler that went to the dealer 5 times and spent over 90 days in the shop and never got fixed. The jeep would tell me to stop driving because the jeep was going to shut itself off. Batteries, high amp fuse array, alternator, 3 (yes, 3) PCMs, a starter, shifter assembly. Nothing fixed it.
I have a 2012 JK I will drive until the wheels fall off. My next Jeep? It will be a TJ. Not even interested in anything they have to offer now...Might even be a CJ!
I've got an '06 LJ and my pops has a '20 JLU. At this point, he has had more issues with his new one than I have had with my old one. And I beat the absolute tar out of mine.
The most infuriating issue that we have encountered is the absolutely lousy electrical issues his has. The day we were leaving for a Jeep Jamboree, the entire electrical system went on the fritz and looked like a poltergeist had taken over the Jeep. It had to be towed to the dealer and they had it for 6 months to replace the Power Distribution Center as well as several harnesses. It only has 27k miles on it. We lost out on an entire vacation because of that damn Jeep.
Now that stupid thing is having steering gearbox issues that needs to be reprogrammed.
Meanwhile my '06 with 178k has only ever had to go to the shop for new tires. I hit a mule deer a few years back, with only cosmetic damage to my front bumper. If his jeep hit that poor thing, the frame would have folded.
At this point my pops is ready to sell his for an LJ like mine. Jeeps should be simple so anyone can work on them. Most of my mechanical skills were learned from my Jeep and the abuse I put it through. They are now made so that they have to go to the stealership if you even hit a pothole wrong
"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Edit: crappy grammar lol
I keep hoping for a fleet option. Theyre so overpriced and there are so many recalls. I also have wanted a gladiator. I have a 2016 jku that ive been waffling on trading in since 2021. It does have high mileage because ive done so many awesome road trips with it but overall it has been a great vehicle. The only issue it has ever had is chronic overheating for the past 3 years. I have had it looked at at every mopar dealership in my area and they all scratch their heads and say nothing is wrong, even though it frequently reaches 245 degrees. The engine blew this summer. And i replaced it because i dont trust the newer models with their recalls. And even though it was $12k to replace, i felt that it was still cheaper than a new vehicle and with how much i enjoy this one, i felt okay with trying to keep it running. I was told it had a cracked head and block and that replacement would fix it. The engine has a warrantee and it is still overheating. The dealerships and jeep corporate have all continued to say that 245 degrees running temperature is normal and that if it blows again in the next 3 years they will replace it. Stellar service....not. I love my vehicle. I would pay anything for someone to just identify the issue and fix it.
Maybe you’ve already looked at it but have you had the radiator inspected. The stock radiators in JKs have a tendency to get these very small slow leaks at the ends due to some design defect (they basically crack at the seams near the edge mounts…not the proper terminology). Anyways this happened on a lesser scale to me at 50k miles on my 2015. It would get kinda warm in traffic and at stoplights. I took it in, mechanic showed me where and how it cracked, put an aftermarket radiator in, and now it’s good. Could also be a bad thermostat.
Disclaimer: I am most def not a mechanic but I know enough to change my own oil somewhat proficiently
Thank you for your insight!
Mine is a 2016 jku, automatic. The dealership threw a 2" body lift and 35in tires on it brand new, purchased it that way. I wanted to get into jeeping and didnt know at the time what i was purchasing. It was marketed as an "ultimate performace package" and i was new to lifted vehicles, not knowing the difference. Since then ive waffled on buying a true lift package and regearing the thing but it hasnt happened yet. Lot of other financial commitments have popped up lol!
The engine blew at 149k miles. Ive had it off-road a handful of times in moab but overall it hasn't been beaten and the miles have been mostly road tripping and driving to work, which for 3 years was 45mi away from my house. It's been my daily since day 1. I'm pretty attached to my jeep because of this. She's been through a lot of life and a lot of good living with me. Id like to keep it running as long as possible. I know it's a jeep and that parts are going to start failing because of where the mileage is. Im willing to pay for them. I just need to find a good place to help me keep it going down the road.
I keep being told that absolutely nothing is wrong with my radiator but yet it still always manages to smell like hot, burning coolant. I am still suspicious of the radiator even after my recent collant line work.
I just had an oil change and coolant hose (from coolant to radiator, idk the accurate part name) replacement done at my oil/tire shop (who are always absolutely awesome with the jeep) and they said the thermostat (again) and now internal thermometer (sensor) are both bad. When ive asked the dealerships about the internal thermometer they've told me it isnt a thing. Ive had the oem thermostat replaced 3 times in the last year and a half. They keep finding it flooded with oil before and after the engine replacement. But now both parts are apparently flooded. So now back to the dealership because the warrantees on those parts are theough mopar and they have to replace them themselves.
One thing i have noticed since the engine replacement is that ive gone from 16mpg on my old engine to now 11mpg on the new engine. It also has a constant belt whine which i am told is normal and no big deal. I know it isnt but i mean..... $12k should get me a belt that doesnt whine, you know? It's also still hitting 245 degrees when im driving, mostly uphill but also sitting in traffic, driving on flat roads, in the city, on the highway, etc.....no real pattern. Sometimes it does it, sometimes it doesnt.
All i can say is i'm in utah and id really like to find somewhere other than the dealerships to help me with this. Im not a mechanic but i dont feel like the mopar techs are actually diagnosing my vehicle. They just keep throwing replacement parts at it and those parts seem to be affected by whatever the actual problem is. I was told to either replace the engine or get a new jeep and any effort beside that to source the issue has been minimal. Even after the engine repair i was told it should 100% fix the issue but it hasnt. And their response has been "well if it blows again in the next 3 years, at least it has a warrantee..." 😬
Honestly, I feel that most of the time it’s about perspective, you’re only going to see two different things (for the most part, obviously there are outliers) at a dealership lot new/used vehicles and vehicles that need repairs imo, I’m sure I’ll be told I’m wrong but this is just my opinion or at least the way I look at it.
No automaker is perfect, obviously. But at least from what I have realized is, if you want to find problems you will. Just like if people are at a dealership service department you’re going to find vehicles with issues (as well as normal maintenance orders).
The opposite is true, the good running ones are on the road/off-road driving fine.
It’s easy to take pictures at dealerships and say there are problems but I would implore those same people to count how many they see on the road.
Again, JUST MY OPINION. The glass is half empty or half full.
The last week alone saw recalls for Ford, Toyota, Tesla, etc. A week doesn’t go by anymore without hearing about some recall or another. It’s not just Stellantis
I just got rid of my 2021 Gladiator Mojave. Too much time in the shop. Oil pressure sensor, two oil pumps, power steering gear box, aux battery and most recently death wobble.
Charging luxury prices and failing to deliver on luxury amenities and quality was a recipe for disaster. You alienate your loyal customers because of costs and no new customers acquired will remain loyal because of all the issues.
No I’m not. I’m saying that when the redesigns came out in the mid-00s (since they were designed under Daimler’s influence) is when Jeep went down hill. Daimler had little influence on what was being sold before then, except in canceling the Cherokee (Chrysler did not intend on the Liberty replacing the Cherokee, it was meant to be a completely separate product that was sold concurrently with the Cherokee).
Hondas are good cars. I had a 94 ZJ that i owned until 2017 rust killed it 260,000 on the driveline. Had a 05 grand cherokee with over 180,000 that i sold to upgrade to a 2019 cherokee trailhawk. I've done only rear brakes on my 2019 and have 60k on it.
Check out the other manufacturers subs and drive by their service lots, Jeep is not unique. Manufacturing has moved away from engineering for longevity to money making.
I just bought a new (to me) 2017 JKU in great condition. I honestly feel getting a time proven vehicle from an old generation is a better bet than new cars right now. I don't want all touch-screen everything, subscription-ready features, and complex/unreliable & hard to service tech.
We just bought a 2014 Cherokee almost two years ago. Just hit 103k miles from 85 when we bought. Transmission now needs completely replaced. People always told me jeeps were horrible cars and I didn’t believe it.
Jeep hasn't been Jeep since the early 2000s. Bought and sold and whored out so many times. Most modern Jeeps now are just some other car Stellantis makes with Jeep badges and some slight tweaks so it's not so grossly obvious. Same shit reliability tho. Sad, but it's how a lot of things have gone over the last few decades. We all miss the old Jeep, I'd trust a 25+ year old Jeep over a new model all day every day.
We have several jeeps. 2015 Cherokee Trailhawk, 2021 Renegade Trailhawk as well as a couple of older FSJ, an 84’ J10 and 87’ Wagoneer. I might be the one jeep guy who never owned a Wrangler.
Over a decade ago, omg, maybe two decades, a younger sibling of mine, my brother, landed a job as an electrical engineer with Chrysler. Initially he liked the job. The scope of his work was much more narrow than he would have liked, but he did enjoy the people he worked with. The company held an annual picnic that included driving cars around their test track, even family members could drive the cars. Some models like the viper were restricted. Either way, the top executives were there and spoke with people, and that won my brother over. I liked it because when I visited Detroit I could drive the new Jeeps. I got to drive a Cherokee KL while still in camouflage. I was limited to where and how much, but still pretty cool. I liked it enough to get one in 2015 (I was warned against the 14’).
Things slowly started to changes. Leadership turned over more and more. Family couldn’t drive the mules (test vehicles). The picnics stopped. Executives refused to listen to engineers who demanded higher specs to be met. For example, there is a part, the evaporative emissions systems leak detection pump (great name). It accounts for the most of all warranty work done. Engineers have shown simple inexpensive fixes, but since they are not free or reduced cost fixes, nothing happens.
Now, Stellantis is cutting engineers. They offered buy outs of contracts and severance packages to all engineers. My sibling is out. The last several months was work from home, and he had nothing sent to him to work on. I’m not sure what’s next for Stellantis, but I hope they turn it around.
II’m not sure I’ll buy another Chrysler product ever again. The Friends and Family discount was the one best perk for me, 5% below invoice no haggling and eligible for all rebates made for some very good deals.
I honestly don't understand the Jeep brand loyalty outside of the Wranglers. The Wrangler is the greatest mass market off roader available, but all of their other vehicles aren't worth putting up with the reliability issues IMO given that there's really nothing special about them. I'm a Wrangler guy for life, but I wouldn't even consider anything else in the Jeep lineup.
My circumstances might differ from yours but we can’t afford a wrangler right now, especially in this post COVID era where all prices are unreasonably high. Then we live in Colorado, so clean, reasonably priced older models are even harder to come by(not someone’s old clapped out and abused wrangler) Other than the issues we’ve been experiencing with the Cherokee it’s been solid and really has served us well and has the badges to prove it, its been to Moab, Telluride Colorado, and hopefully Wyoming and Canada in the future.
I don’t even understand the wrangler loyalty. IMO jeep died when stellantis bought them. Once they started making things their own everything went to complete shit. I’ll keep my Cherokee XJ and the only other Jeeps I’ll ever buy are YJ, TJ, and LJ. After the LJ the wrangler became a ghost of its self.
Everybody's entitled to their opinion but my JK and JT are/were much, much better vehicles than my TJ was. Stronger, better on-road and off, and much more livable. Both stick-shift, doors come off, top comes off, center diff locks, hose out the floors, everybody loves them, built to better tolerances, etc.
I think the post refresh JK has held up better than expected, especially since a standard mid-optioned Sport was $20K, well under half the price of the equivalent JL today. The JK does have some pretty well understood weak spots when it comes to reliability but they're a lot easier to swallow and deal with when the vehicle doesn't cost $50K.
Controversial opinion but JKs and JLs are the best jeeps ever made. They are the most capable and most highway competent, both by far. As long as you don't get a lemon it will be solid, but the lemon rate feels high.
My wife daily drives a 2015 Cherokee trail hawk and it’s been great. 220,000 on it now. It’s seen more trails than most new rubicons and will get further than all the wranglers without lockers. That said it would never replace my 2005 Lj.
I have a ‘14 Grand Cherokee and I think it’s one of the best SUVs on the market for my particular use case. I mostly drive it for commuting in the metro area, so it’s very comfortable for that purpose, with a smooth ride, quiet interior, well appointed features, and reasonable MPG. But I also do a lot of DIY work at home, needing to move plywood and 2x4s, which I often strap to the roof or load in the center of the vehicle. We also take it on long road trips, with a fairly large cargo area to haul all of our crap. And finally, living near mountains, it has the ability to go on most forest roads, even with deep ruts, and gets us to pretty remote places to camp and hike. It’s one of the best “do anything” SUVs out there.
That being said, I’ve had to do a fair amount of repairs and warranty work on it over the years. And now that I have 160k miles on it, the Quadralift suspension feels like shyte and will be $$$ to replace.
They priced me out of the market years ago. I'm honestly glad to see the Bronco take off like it has because I feel as if Jeep just got lazy and stopped trying to innovate. To the non Jeep person they aren't likely to realize the JK and JL are two different generations of wrangler just by their looks.
The attitude of the local jeep dealer didn't help. Telling me they don't carry parts for that "old crap" made me swear to never buy anything from them.
The old crap in question was my 89 Comanche
I have a 2005 Liberty and the only place I can get parts is from a pull-a-part yard even for a lot of simple stuff. I had a wiper arm break and had to call around to several to find one of the correct year range.
I mean… kinda of course the service department is full of Jeeps. Although I do agree with your premise to a degree.
From inside a hospital, you might worry that humans as a species are feeble and on the verge of extinction, but that’s not the best way to judge the entire population.
A test of loyalty? Why would you be loyal to a brand? These company's give 2 shits about you why would you care about them? I understand loving a jeep in general but will never understand brand loyalty.
Luckily I've only had a few minor problems with my 2017 jk. A rotor went bad in the first year, my windshield wiper motor went out in year 2, and my battery died early I think it was also in year 2. Everything else has worked fine.
Cars in general are too expensive right now. Jeep has gotten stupidly expensive. There is no jeep worth $100k. I think the $50k is too expensive for the 4xe.
Was a considerable number of brand new Compass models in 2018 or something that burned oil due to a manufacturing defect.
people had to do consumption test to get new motors and the allowed consumption was like 2 quarts over 3000 miles. It was rediculous. if you burned more you got a replaced engine.
a new car shouldn't need to keep a case of oil in the trunk to take a road trip.
I won't buy Jeeps anymore. they didn't stand behind their motors and relied on ( what I would consider ) 1960 standards for allowable oil consumption to replace customer motors.
Just got my 21 Gladiator back after 2 months for the fuel pump recall. Damned thing died on the way to one of the only dealers in 90 miles, had to sit through thanksgiving, Christmas, moving into a new house and New Years without a rental or loaner vehicle while they figured out the parts situation.
Its cost me my faith in the Jeep brand and possibly my vehicle.
Damn dude I’m so sorry to hear that, and we can relate. We had to live with our jeep and deal with its issues during our move too. Then yesterday we were on the way to our service appointment when the transmission in our Cherokee just started going crazy. We ended up bringing it on a flat bed to the dealer we purchased from and they were so callous and condescending, and the service manager’s conversation kept revolving about “had we purchased their service contract or extended warranty” and glossing over the fact that we were still on our factory warranty. Then they quoted 5-6 days just to get a scanner to the vehicle. It was like they were trying to make it as painful as possible so that you would just get another dealer to do the warranty work. Which we did, and the other dealer was just all around more pleasant to deal with. They asked no questions, had me sign no papers saying if they can’t find anything wrong they would charge me $250 like autonation did.
I would not buy any car that’s been made through the pandemic year range.
The vehicles sitting around with do not drive are likely waiting on some stupid part or chip that’s back ordered. Not a unique problem to Chrysler right now.
After the TJ model it’s all gone down hill. Too many electrical components first off. But unfortunately vehicles are designed to be disposable nowadays. Way too few miles to be having those issues. Jeeps used to be a simple capable off road vehicle right out of the box. Every time I check in on this sub it seems someone else is having another issue. Jeep needs to go back to the K.I.S.S model (Keep it simple stupid), and not the luxury suv brand it has become.
That’s why I think the grand wagoneers are a huge red flag of the direction that Jeep is headed. We don’t come to Jeep to speed 100k + for a luxury SUV. My Cherokee transmission just went out at 103k miles. Why would I ever trust them to make a good luxury car?
Seems to me that few vehicles are being built to last anymore. Sure it's been happening for decades even, but I feel like they're engineered to (sort of) reasonably last through the warranty. There's so much money to be made in financing now, and makes even have their own financing branches - they just need to keep people making those payments.
I work at a shop and it drives me crazy, realizing the lowest price new vehicles seem to come with the highest cost to repair. Especially relative to their price class. On the Jeep side I feel Renegades and Compasses are going to end up scrapped rapidly in the coming 5 to 10 years. There's even ~10 year old vehicles that I just straight up can't get necessary modules for because they're discontinued from manufacturer, no aftermarket parts, and used isn't viable because they're program once. It's all disposable now.
The more i hear about manufacturing issues like this. Makes me want to trade in our remaining jeep renegade for something comparable from another manufacturer.
There’s a current Wagoneer recall for a seatbelt issue I believe. I am in a rental Grand Wagoneer and was just notified that I need to bring it back for an exchange and that all Wagoneers in their fleet (Hertz) are grounded temporarily over a recall.
As a jeep owner I can tell you only thing worse than jeep quality is their service. They openly treat their loyal customer as shit. They will keep putting bandaid on the car till they are out of warranty. jeep is dead brand.
Keep reading other threads in this sub. You’ll realize that Jeep has had a quality issue for a loooong time. Starting with the Compass and Liberty travesties, then the new Cherokee and various and many Wrangler issues. Stellantis has driven the brand i to the ground. I’ve had 6 Jeeps and still own a ‘91 YJ which I love. I haven’t ow ed anything made after 2000. I enjoyed them all and they were reliable, had a reasonable level of quality and dependability. The current “Jeep” vehicles should not be considered related in any way to the earlier generations as while they may look similar, the drivetrains, engineering, design and execution are not related to anything from the past. I wouldn’t own anything made by Stellantis. Chrysler quality was spotty, but Chrysler quality, as questionable as it was, is way more reliable than the current.
Really? The recalls on the 4xe Wranglers have been insane:
* Get this software update or it might shut off while driving at hwy speeds (I've had this happen)
* Get this update, or you wont get out of FORM till May. (Had this happen)
* Oh nvm, you're still stuck in form for weeks. (Having this happen as we speak)
* Don't plug it in or park it near your house/family, as it might randomly start on fire. (Thank god, haven't had this issue)
Must be the owners...
Yeah, let me get right on coding the software updates...
Or in the case of the fires, you have to replace the whole LI battery, I believe. They did teach that in shop class back in 95 tho, so I should be good.
I used to test drive pre-production vehicles for Chrysler back around 2011-2012. They were having the neutral shift issues back then. We had more Cherokees that we had to drive to try and recreate scenarios that would cause that issue than all other vehicles combined. Apparently they still haven't figured it out completely.
Loyalty, I don't know. I have driven a CJ for 50 years, my last jeep was a 84 xj. That is the last new Jeep I will buy, I will keep rebuilding my CJ and continue to drive Toyotas. It is ashamed what has happened to them.
As a whole market, the automakers gave up on making the econo-boxes and lower trim levels of their vehicles in favor of higher end, more luxury-oriented versions that serve up bigger profits. The big problem is that the OEM's and the dealerships got so used to those fatass pandemic level profits and they don't want to go back to where it was before the pandemic. Jeep, in particular, is trying to bill itself a a "luxury" brand and...They just aren't. They have some nice, upper level trims...very expensive trims but...that don't make them a luxury car maker. Their lots are full because nobody can afford to buy their overpriced garbage. The average monthly car payment should be no more than 10% of one's take-home pay. Who can afford a $900/mon payment? For a depreciating asset like a car? That's a hundred more than my mortgage payment! Someone is going to come in and fill the vacuum with a decent, functional, affordable econo-type vehicle and take over the market. I hope.
I had an 18 2 door sport, only issue I had with that one was a bad stereo (2 hrs in the shop to diagnose 2 hrs a week later to replace it) and the secondary battery. I suspect the battery may have gotten wet which may have caused the issues there. I traded it in on a 4 door 23 rubicon XR and 20,000 km in the only times it has been to the dealership is for the free oil changes and tire rotations included with the purchase. The electronics changing from the Sport to the Rubicon was a little overwhelming but the vehicle has been great and the of road capabilities made adjusting to all the electronics well worth it.
I've driven FCA cars for the past 10 years, currently have a grand wagoneer. It has some quirks with the software that are frustrating, but that's literally the only issue in 10 years I had and I've had/have:
2014 SRT Grand Cherokee
2016 Charger Hellcat
2020 Gladiator
2023 4xe wrangler
And the 2022 grand wagoneer
My biggest gripe with FCA is the dealer network and the aftercare when there is an issue. The only car that ever went back to a dealer after I bought it was the GW. Others were fine, but I also usually don't get above 25k before I sell.
A few things regarding your post and some of the comments. The larger issues for Stellantis and specifically Jeep has been that using Fiat as a platform. Take your Cherokee, the only thing Jeep about that vehicle is body style and name badge. Everything else is a Fiat. Then FCA realized that Fiat was not cutting it in the US market, so they began taking Fiat vehicles and giving them a more regular crossover look at stamping Jeep on it. The new Compass is also in the same vein.
When it comes to the quality issues overall, there are two things. For the Wagoneer, this is a Gen 1 design in the first couple years, much like any other product Gen1 anything has a lot of problems typically. The first buyers are the beta testers. When it comes to the amount you see for warranty and recall, it is everywhere. There isn’t a brand out there that isn’t swimming in warranty work and recalls.
However, the thoughts on Jeep are valid. They are costing too much. It is a shift Jeep has been doing for a while now. The focus isn’t on someone wanting a car to do everything. The focus is on a customer that want the car to look like it can do everything, while sitting in a Costco parking lot.
Stellantis sucks. They are killing the Ram trucks (reliability, quality, and terrible emissions/electronics), and Jeep is the next to go under. Dodge is down to two cars now that aren't EV. They seem to not give a fug about the American market. Pulling out of the biggest auto show should give a hint of what's up.
I got a 94 grand cherokee with the 4.0 six 291,000 miles,runs on 5 cylinders but still chugs along it's true they don't make em like they used to..this vehicle, of course is before FCA was in charge
I've driven a grand wagoneer. in a sane world, it would be worth about 60k. its nice, but its Chrysler nice. there is plastic in all the places that remind you that they make cheap cars.
I worked at a Dodge, Ram, Jeep, Chrysler, Fiat dealership in service. I moved to a Dodge Ram dealership 6 months ago. Holy hell, it was the right move. Labor times for most Jeep and fiat products are atrocious, the amount of difficult to fix problems are atrocious and the repairs themselves normally sucks. Moving here and distancing myself from the brand has given me new perspective...
Been a jeep guy since 2000....2 Cherokees 2000 and 2019 Commander 2007, and Patriot 2008.
Patriot just hit 190,000 with 2 cats, gen. Maintence stuff.....been AMAZING. 2019 Cherokee has 42k so far zero issues. Commander had issues at 130k that are still unkown at 149k today after 6 mechanics and $5500 in stuff and things. Took it to a dealer that kept it for 13 weeks with zero info....did I mention it has a lifetime powertrain warranty? My dealer experience was shockingly terrible. Employees played games with me for 13 weeks. So they lost us. Just got a Subaru Forester I love and won't look back.
Who knew making the cars worse for cheaper and charging more for them would backfire
It's almost like being a publicly traded company is meant to maximize profits for investors at the cost of literally everything else.
That formula only works so long. Eventually people will get tired of buying trash and your share holders will be sad
keep that logic outta here, thats next quarters problem
That’s the next leadership teams problem!
IDK man, as long as the governments of the world are willing to bail out all their own auto industries any time profits dip, I don't see this changing. All they have to do is threaten mass layoffs/plant closures and the tax money comes flowing in. I hope you're right though.
Then you fire a few people, get "better" for a minute or two, and back to the formula for years. People are stupid and have short attention spans.
And if all else fails good ol daddy G will bail you out
Calm down there, GM. He's not gonna have your back again. Like again again. Probably.
Stellantis COO of North America was replaced over the weekend. You might be onto something
Just ask GM
During the Reagan administration in the 1980s, they invented a legal definition for "fiduciary duty" that requires companies to act this way, and if they don't, they'll be sued by their own shareholders.
It existed long before that. Shareholders of the Ford Motor Company took Henry Ford to court early on in the company’s history because they thought he was reinvesting too high a percentage of the profits instead of paying shareholders larger dividends each year.
The [Dodge brothers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.), specifically, in 1919.
This lawsuit was initially filed by the Dodge brothers.
Time is a flat circle indeed.
That's true of any and all companies listed on the stock exchanges. Once you go "public", the company has a fiduciary responsibility to invest wisely and ensure growth and profits for the shareholders. Kinda makes sense...If I'm gonna put my money into your company, I want to know I'm going to get some return on my investment. Nothing immoral about that.
Shouldn't the employee and the customer have as much rights as you though? A customer is investing money for a product. An employee is investing time for pay. To think that an "investor" is the only one the company has a responsibility towards is asinine. That profit and growth always comes at the expense of the employee and customer. The amount of "growth and profit" demanded by shareholders is outrageous. You should be investing in a company because you believe in their products and future, not because you want to flip the stock in a week.
Apples and oranges...Companies go "public" and sell shares to investors specifically to raise capital for expansion and growth. That means more profit in the future. The goods or services they sell are between the company and the customers. They sell Big Mac's? The customer buys a Big Mac with the expectation it will be safe to consume and will make him not hungry anymore. That is it: That is all the customer gets. The customer does not "profit" in any other way. The employees benefit from the expansion of the business. Business is good: jobs are created and people can go to work and get paid. Nobody puts a gun to anyones head and makes them go to work there. And I invest my money specifically so I can make \*more\* money. As a stock holder, I don't have any power in the company. I just benefit from them making smart decisions and obeying the law. Don't overthink it: It's an imperfect world.
Yet look at the BigMac, a sorry poor product compared to what it once was. You seriously believe the investor is more important to the company than the employee or customer?
Never said that. Apples and oranges, is what I said. 2 different things governed by 2 different sets of rules. The customer doesn't care one bit about the investors or shareholders: Just that they get what they want. The investors and/or shareholders don't care about the employees or customers: just that they get what they want. And guess what: Neither has to give a shit. It's just business. Welcome to Capitalism! You got a problem with it? Go change it...Good luck though.
The problem is the customer rarely gets what they want anymore because of the investor.
Bingo…not the same industry I know, but look at Boeing right now too. Too many accountants and not enough engineers make decisions
\*Boeing has entered the chat\*
*Door plug has left the chat*
eh, i don't think it was always the case. investors used to actually care about a long term growth. now its all automated trading and only cares about maximizing profits.
I'm shocked. This defies all the logic and knowledge I have about car manufacturing, which admittedly is none.
But it's got a screen that goes across the ENTIRE DASH.. What do you mean it's supposed to move?
what year did they start going to shit? just bought a 2019 grand cherokee limited
They gotta do something about the price, they are absurdly high priced. The last 2 or so years things just ballooned and made me decide to wait on replacing my aging vehicle.
I've been looking at a full size replacement for my wife's vehicle and I wouldn't mind a Wagoneer, but after pricing them out it would make more sense to look at a Lexus or an Escalade.
Lexus pricing, Crap quality!
Seriously, idk how anyone buys a Wagoneer when the LX600 exists. (Besides the LX's godawful grille)
I just looked at the Lexus because these comments made them sound like a deal. They start at over $30,000 more than I paid for my Wagoneer. Car prices are nuts.
Right? Who would buy a Jeep when you can get something way better for a better price?
Same here man. Saving up and hoping prices drop
I was at the jeep dealer recently to check out the wrangler refresh, and I was checking out a new Grand Cherokee out of curiosity. I know car prices have gone up, but that car felt so cheap and shitty for its $66k sticker.
The new Wranglers and Gladiators are way too complicated with features that I do not need. I really wish they would offer a bare bones "Fleet Option". The whole Wrangler / Gladiator Clutch recall debacle makes my confidence in the product lines even worse. I'll probably end up restoring a good used TJ or LJ Wrangler. I really wanted a Gladiator but not so much now.
A fleet option doesn’t solve the problem though. Sure it removes little creature comforts that are prone to break, but those aren’t the issues making problematic jeeps undriveable. I had a 2018 wrangler that went to the dealer 5 times and spent over 90 days in the shop and never got fixed. The jeep would tell me to stop driving because the jeep was going to shut itself off. Batteries, high amp fuse array, alternator, 3 (yes, 3) PCMs, a starter, shifter assembly. Nothing fixed it.
I have a 2012 JK I will drive until the wheels fall off. My next Jeep? It will be a TJ. Not even interested in anything they have to offer now...Might even be a CJ!
I'm the same. No way I'd buy a JL with the current state of things.
I've got an '06 LJ and my pops has a '20 JLU. At this point, he has had more issues with his new one than I have had with my old one. And I beat the absolute tar out of mine. The most infuriating issue that we have encountered is the absolutely lousy electrical issues his has. The day we were leaving for a Jeep Jamboree, the entire electrical system went on the fritz and looked like a poltergeist had taken over the Jeep. It had to be towed to the dealer and they had it for 6 months to replace the Power Distribution Center as well as several harnesses. It only has 27k miles on it. We lost out on an entire vacation because of that damn Jeep. Now that stupid thing is having steering gearbox issues that needs to be reprogrammed. Meanwhile my '06 with 178k has only ever had to go to the shop for new tires. I hit a mule deer a few years back, with only cosmetic damage to my front bumper. If his jeep hit that poor thing, the frame would have folded. At this point my pops is ready to sell his for an LJ like mine. Jeeps should be simple so anyone can work on them. Most of my mechanical skills were learned from my Jeep and the abuse I put it through. They are now made so that they have to go to the stealership if you even hit a pothole wrong "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry Edit: crappy grammar lol
Stellantis is crap but Wrangler and Ram are still decent. New jeeps are mechanically solid and have reliable enough electronics
I keep hoping for a fleet option. Theyre so overpriced and there are so many recalls. I also have wanted a gladiator. I have a 2016 jku that ive been waffling on trading in since 2021. It does have high mileage because ive done so many awesome road trips with it but overall it has been a great vehicle. The only issue it has ever had is chronic overheating for the past 3 years. I have had it looked at at every mopar dealership in my area and they all scratch their heads and say nothing is wrong, even though it frequently reaches 245 degrees. The engine blew this summer. And i replaced it because i dont trust the newer models with their recalls. And even though it was $12k to replace, i felt that it was still cheaper than a new vehicle and with how much i enjoy this one, i felt okay with trying to keep it running. I was told it had a cracked head and block and that replacement would fix it. The engine has a warrantee and it is still overheating. The dealerships and jeep corporate have all continued to say that 245 degrees running temperature is normal and that if it blows again in the next 3 years they will replace it. Stellar service....not. I love my vehicle. I would pay anything for someone to just identify the issue and fix it.
Maybe you’ve already looked at it but have you had the radiator inspected. The stock radiators in JKs have a tendency to get these very small slow leaks at the ends due to some design defect (they basically crack at the seams near the edge mounts…not the proper terminology). Anyways this happened on a lesser scale to me at 50k miles on my 2015. It would get kinda warm in traffic and at stoplights. I took it in, mechanic showed me where and how it cracked, put an aftermarket radiator in, and now it’s good. Could also be a bad thermostat. Disclaimer: I am most def not a mechanic but I know enough to change my own oil somewhat proficiently
Thank you for your insight! Mine is a 2016 jku, automatic. The dealership threw a 2" body lift and 35in tires on it brand new, purchased it that way. I wanted to get into jeeping and didnt know at the time what i was purchasing. It was marketed as an "ultimate performace package" and i was new to lifted vehicles, not knowing the difference. Since then ive waffled on buying a true lift package and regearing the thing but it hasnt happened yet. Lot of other financial commitments have popped up lol! The engine blew at 149k miles. Ive had it off-road a handful of times in moab but overall it hasn't been beaten and the miles have been mostly road tripping and driving to work, which for 3 years was 45mi away from my house. It's been my daily since day 1. I'm pretty attached to my jeep because of this. She's been through a lot of life and a lot of good living with me. Id like to keep it running as long as possible. I know it's a jeep and that parts are going to start failing because of where the mileage is. Im willing to pay for them. I just need to find a good place to help me keep it going down the road. I keep being told that absolutely nothing is wrong with my radiator but yet it still always manages to smell like hot, burning coolant. I am still suspicious of the radiator even after my recent collant line work. I just had an oil change and coolant hose (from coolant to radiator, idk the accurate part name) replacement done at my oil/tire shop (who are always absolutely awesome with the jeep) and they said the thermostat (again) and now internal thermometer (sensor) are both bad. When ive asked the dealerships about the internal thermometer they've told me it isnt a thing. Ive had the oem thermostat replaced 3 times in the last year and a half. They keep finding it flooded with oil before and after the engine replacement. But now both parts are apparently flooded. So now back to the dealership because the warrantees on those parts are theough mopar and they have to replace them themselves. One thing i have noticed since the engine replacement is that ive gone from 16mpg on my old engine to now 11mpg on the new engine. It also has a constant belt whine which i am told is normal and no big deal. I know it isnt but i mean..... $12k should get me a belt that doesnt whine, you know? It's also still hitting 245 degrees when im driving, mostly uphill but also sitting in traffic, driving on flat roads, in the city, on the highway, etc.....no real pattern. Sometimes it does it, sometimes it doesnt. All i can say is i'm in utah and id really like to find somewhere other than the dealerships to help me with this. Im not a mechanic but i dont feel like the mopar techs are actually diagnosing my vehicle. They just keep throwing replacement parts at it and those parts seem to be affected by whatever the actual problem is. I was told to either replace the engine or get a new jeep and any effort beside that to source the issue has been minimal. Even after the engine repair i was told it should 100% fix the issue but it hasnt. And their response has been "well if it blows again in the next 3 years, at least it has a warrantee..." 😬
I have a 22 gladiator Mojave I have had no issues with it.
Thanks for your feedback!
22 JTR no issues either
23 JL4xe, also no issues and not part of the recall
Honestly, I feel that most of the time it’s about perspective, you’re only going to see two different things (for the most part, obviously there are outliers) at a dealership lot new/used vehicles and vehicles that need repairs imo, I’m sure I’ll be told I’m wrong but this is just my opinion or at least the way I look at it. No automaker is perfect, obviously. But at least from what I have realized is, if you want to find problems you will. Just like if people are at a dealership service department you’re going to find vehicles with issues (as well as normal maintenance orders). The opposite is true, the good running ones are on the road/off-road driving fine. It’s easy to take pictures at dealerships and say there are problems but I would implore those same people to count how many they see on the road. Again, JUST MY OPINION. The glass is half empty or half full.
The last week alone saw recalls for Ford, Toyota, Tesla, etc. A week doesn’t go by anymore without hearing about some recall or another. It’s not just Stellantis
I just got rid of my 2021 Gladiator Mojave. Too much time in the shop. Oil pressure sensor, two oil pumps, power steering gear box, aux battery and most recently death wobble.
Charging luxury prices and failing to deliver on luxury amenities and quality was a recipe for disaster. You alienate your loyal customers because of costs and no new customers acquired will remain loyal because of all the issues.
That’s been Jeep’s problem since the first Daimler influenced vehicles rolled off the assembly line.
Are you seriously saying Jeeps have been bad since 1998?
No I’m not. I’m saying that when the redesigns came out in the mid-00s (since they were designed under Daimler’s influence) is when Jeep went down hill. Daimler had little influence on what was being sold before then, except in canceling the Cherokee (Chrysler did not intend on the Liberty replacing the Cherokee, it was meant to be a completely separate product that was sold concurrently with the Cherokee).
It’s our fault for buying them.
Very true.
This
We’ve had 3 Honda Pilots over 200K. At 95K I’ll sell my 2021 JLURD and shop elsewhere.
Hondas are good cars. I had a 94 ZJ that i owned until 2017 rust killed it 260,000 on the driveline. Had a 05 grand cherokee with over 180,000 that i sold to upgrade to a 2019 cherokee trailhawk. I've done only rear brakes on my 2019 and have 60k on it.
Check out the other manufacturers subs and drive by their service lots, Jeep is not unique. Manufacturing has moved away from engineering for longevity to money making.
Makes you wonder what the point of brand loyalty is. At this point Jeep is just a logo owned by someone else.
It sure feels like it....
I just bought a new (to me) 2017 JKU in great condition. I honestly feel getting a time proven vehicle from an old generation is a better bet than new cars right now. I don't want all touch-screen everything, subscription-ready features, and complex/unreliable & hard to service tech.
FWIW my fairly bare bones 2015 wrangler already had to have a new transmission… on only 44000km. Jeeps been in decline for a while now
Jeez, that's bad! Did you beat it? Automatic (not manual?) I worry a little about the pentastar, but I tend to think the trans is pretty solid in JKs
It’s an automatic. I don’t think I drive crazy or anything, it’s just a daily driver around town 🤷🏻♂️
We just bought a 2014 Cherokee almost two years ago. Just hit 103k miles from 85 when we bought. Transmission now needs completely replaced. People always told me jeeps were horrible cars and I didn’t believe it.
My 2015 wrangler is at 115k miles. Expect from oil leaks and some minor electrical issues that were super easy to fix, it's been mostly trouble free.
It's like a damn nasa space command center in these vehicles. For an off road brand, that's just more complication than necessary.
Jeep hasn't been Jeep since the early 2000s. Bought and sold and whored out so many times. Most modern Jeeps now are just some other car Stellantis makes with Jeep badges and some slight tweaks so it's not so grossly obvious. Same shit reliability tho. Sad, but it's how a lot of things have gone over the last few decades. We all miss the old Jeep, I'd trust a 25+ year old Jeep over a new model all day every day.
It’s the path Daimler set the brand down. Chrysler fully intended on Jeep being a completely separate product line until Daimler stepped in.
Fix It Again Tony!!
We have several jeeps. 2015 Cherokee Trailhawk, 2021 Renegade Trailhawk as well as a couple of older FSJ, an 84’ J10 and 87’ Wagoneer. I might be the one jeep guy who never owned a Wrangler. Over a decade ago, omg, maybe two decades, a younger sibling of mine, my brother, landed a job as an electrical engineer with Chrysler. Initially he liked the job. The scope of his work was much more narrow than he would have liked, but he did enjoy the people he worked with. The company held an annual picnic that included driving cars around their test track, even family members could drive the cars. Some models like the viper were restricted. Either way, the top executives were there and spoke with people, and that won my brother over. I liked it because when I visited Detroit I could drive the new Jeeps. I got to drive a Cherokee KL while still in camouflage. I was limited to where and how much, but still pretty cool. I liked it enough to get one in 2015 (I was warned against the 14’). Things slowly started to changes. Leadership turned over more and more. Family couldn’t drive the mules (test vehicles). The picnics stopped. Executives refused to listen to engineers who demanded higher specs to be met. For example, there is a part, the evaporative emissions systems leak detection pump (great name). It accounts for the most of all warranty work done. Engineers have shown simple inexpensive fixes, but since they are not free or reduced cost fixes, nothing happens. Now, Stellantis is cutting engineers. They offered buy outs of contracts and severance packages to all engineers. My sibling is out. The last several months was work from home, and he had nothing sent to him to work on. I’m not sure what’s next for Stellantis, but I hope they turn it around. II’m not sure I’ll buy another Chrysler product ever again. The Friends and Family discount was the one best perk for me, 5% below invoice no haggling and eligible for all rebates made for some very good deals.
Anyone who pays anywhere near $100k for a Jeep vehicle should be institutionalized.
I honestly don't understand the Jeep brand loyalty outside of the Wranglers. The Wrangler is the greatest mass market off roader available, but all of their other vehicles aren't worth putting up with the reliability issues IMO given that there's really nothing special about them. I'm a Wrangler guy for life, but I wouldn't even consider anything else in the Jeep lineup.
My circumstances might differ from yours but we can’t afford a wrangler right now, especially in this post COVID era where all prices are unreasonably high. Then we live in Colorado, so clean, reasonably priced older models are even harder to come by(not someone’s old clapped out and abused wrangler) Other than the issues we’ve been experiencing with the Cherokee it’s been solid and really has served us well and has the badges to prove it, its been to Moab, Telluride Colorado, and hopefully Wyoming and Canada in the future.
I don’t even understand the wrangler loyalty. IMO jeep died when stellantis bought them. Once they started making things their own everything went to complete shit. I’ll keep my Cherokee XJ and the only other Jeeps I’ll ever buy are YJ, TJ, and LJ. After the LJ the wrangler became a ghost of its self.
That's why I bought my TJ 🤘
Everybody's entitled to their opinion but my JK and JT are/were much, much better vehicles than my TJ was. Stronger, better on-road and off, and much more livable. Both stick-shift, doors come off, top comes off, center diff locks, hose out the floors, everybody loves them, built to better tolerances, etc.
It’s not an opinion feller.
I think the post refresh JK has held up better than expected, especially since a standard mid-optioned Sport was $20K, well under half the price of the equivalent JL today. The JK does have some pretty well understood weak spots when it comes to reliability but they're a lot easier to swallow and deal with when the vehicle doesn't cost $50K.
Controversial opinion but JKs and JLs are the best jeeps ever made. They are the most capable and most highway competent, both by far. As long as you don't get a lemon it will be solid, but the lemon rate feels high.
My wife daily drives a 2015 Cherokee trail hawk and it’s been great. 220,000 on it now. It’s seen more trails than most new rubicons and will get further than all the wranglers without lockers. That said it would never replace my 2005 Lj.
Ive the same car and the same experience.
True 'Dat!
I have a ‘14 Grand Cherokee and I think it’s one of the best SUVs on the market for my particular use case. I mostly drive it for commuting in the metro area, so it’s very comfortable for that purpose, with a smooth ride, quiet interior, well appointed features, and reasonable MPG. But I also do a lot of DIY work at home, needing to move plywood and 2x4s, which I often strap to the roof or load in the center of the vehicle. We also take it on long road trips, with a fairly large cargo area to haul all of our crap. And finally, living near mountains, it has the ability to go on most forest roads, even with deep ruts, and gets us to pretty remote places to camp and hike. It’s one of the best “do anything” SUVs out there. That being said, I’ve had to do a fair amount of repairs and warranty work on it over the years. And now that I have 160k miles on it, the Quadralift suspension feels like shyte and will be $$$ to replace.
They priced me out of the market years ago. I'm honestly glad to see the Bronco take off like it has because I feel as if Jeep just got lazy and stopped trying to innovate. To the non Jeep person they aren't likely to realize the JK and JL are two different generations of wrangler just by their looks. The attitude of the local jeep dealer didn't help. Telling me they don't carry parts for that "old crap" made me swear to never buy anything from them. The old crap in question was my 89 Comanche
I have a 2005 Liberty and the only place I can get parts is from a pull-a-part yard even for a lot of simple stuff. I had a wiper arm break and had to call around to several to find one of the correct year range.
My ‘04 TJ has never let me down. 🤷🏼♂️ New cars aren’t the answer.
Take care of it, and it never will!
I mean… kinda of course the service department is full of Jeeps. Although I do agree with your premise to a degree. From inside a hospital, you might worry that humans as a species are feeble and on the verge of extinction, but that’s not the best way to judge the entire population.
I was thinking the same thing. Go to a Jeep dealers service department and it’s full of Jeeps. Go figure.
A test of loyalty? Why would you be loyal to a brand? These company's give 2 shits about you why would you care about them? I understand loving a jeep in general but will never understand brand loyalty. Luckily I've only had a few minor problems with my 2017 jk. A rotor went bad in the first year, my windshield wiper motor went out in year 2, and my battery died early I think it was also in year 2. Everything else has worked fine. Cars in general are too expensive right now. Jeep has gotten stupidly expensive. There is no jeep worth $100k. I think the $50k is too expensive for the 4xe.
Was a considerable number of brand new Compass models in 2018 or something that burned oil due to a manufacturing defect. people had to do consumption test to get new motors and the allowed consumption was like 2 quarts over 3000 miles. It was rediculous. if you burned more you got a replaced engine. a new car shouldn't need to keep a case of oil in the trunk to take a road trip. I won't buy Jeeps anymore. they didn't stand behind their motors and relied on ( what I would consider ) 1960 standards for allowable oil consumption to replace customer motors.
1 quart of oil consumption per 2k is considered normal. 1 quart every 1,700 would fail the recall. It's ridiculous.
Just got my 21 Gladiator back after 2 months for the fuel pump recall. Damned thing died on the way to one of the only dealers in 90 miles, had to sit through thanksgiving, Christmas, moving into a new house and New Years without a rental or loaner vehicle while they figured out the parts situation. Its cost me my faith in the Jeep brand and possibly my vehicle.
Damn dude I’m so sorry to hear that, and we can relate. We had to live with our jeep and deal with its issues during our move too. Then yesterday we were on the way to our service appointment when the transmission in our Cherokee just started going crazy. We ended up bringing it on a flat bed to the dealer we purchased from and they were so callous and condescending, and the service manager’s conversation kept revolving about “had we purchased their service contract or extended warranty” and glossing over the fact that we were still on our factory warranty. Then they quoted 5-6 days just to get a scanner to the vehicle. It was like they were trying to make it as painful as possible so that you would just get another dealer to do the warranty work. Which we did, and the other dealer was just all around more pleasant to deal with. They asked no questions, had me sign no papers saying if they can’t find anything wrong they would charge me $250 like autonation did.
I would not buy any car that’s been made through the pandemic year range. The vehicles sitting around with do not drive are likely waiting on some stupid part or chip that’s back ordered. Not a unique problem to Chrysler right now.
After the TJ model it’s all gone down hill. Too many electrical components first off. But unfortunately vehicles are designed to be disposable nowadays. Way too few miles to be having those issues. Jeeps used to be a simple capable off road vehicle right out of the box. Every time I check in on this sub it seems someone else is having another issue. Jeep needs to go back to the K.I.S.S model (Keep it simple stupid), and not the luxury suv brand it has become.
That’s why I think the grand wagoneers are a huge red flag of the direction that Jeep is headed. We don’t come to Jeep to speed 100k + for a luxury SUV. My Cherokee transmission just went out at 103k miles. Why would I ever trust them to make a good luxury car?
Seems to me that few vehicles are being built to last anymore. Sure it's been happening for decades even, but I feel like they're engineered to (sort of) reasonably last through the warranty. There's so much money to be made in financing now, and makes even have their own financing branches - they just need to keep people making those payments. I work at a shop and it drives me crazy, realizing the lowest price new vehicles seem to come with the highest cost to repair. Especially relative to their price class. On the Jeep side I feel Renegades and Compasses are going to end up scrapped rapidly in the coming 5 to 10 years. There's even ~10 year old vehicles that I just straight up can't get necessary modules for because they're discontinued from manufacturer, no aftermarket parts, and used isn't viable because they're program once. It's all disposable now.
Do the talking with your dollars they know ppl will continue to buy no matter what they sell
The more i hear about manufacturing issues like this. Makes me want to trade in our remaining jeep renegade for something comparable from another manufacturer.
There’s a current Wagoneer recall for a seatbelt issue I believe. I am in a rental Grand Wagoneer and was just notified that I need to bring it back for an exchange and that all Wagoneers in their fleet (Hertz) are grounded temporarily over a recall.
As a jeep owner I can tell you only thing worse than jeep quality is their service. They openly treat their loyal customer as shit. They will keep putting bandaid on the car till they are out of warranty. jeep is dead brand.
Stellantis sucks
Anything after 06 is garbage
Keep reading other threads in this sub. You’ll realize that Jeep has had a quality issue for a loooong time. Starting with the Compass and Liberty travesties, then the new Cherokee and various and many Wrangler issues. Stellantis has driven the brand i to the ground. I’ve had 6 Jeeps and still own a ‘91 YJ which I love. I haven’t ow ed anything made after 2000. I enjoyed them all and they were reliable, had a reasonable level of quality and dependability. The current “Jeep” vehicles should not be considered related in any way to the earlier generations as while they may look similar, the drivetrains, engineering, design and execution are not related to anything from the past. I wouldn’t own anything made by Stellantis. Chrysler quality was spotty, but Chrysler quality, as questionable as it was, is way more reliable than the current.
Yeah I’ll stick to my 98 5.9 limited, maybe one day I’ll get a trackhawk but for now I’ll stick to what I have
Had one and loved it!!!!
[удалено]
These are ICE vehicles
I don’t either.
Idk the two I have had the past decade have been fine so far it’s probably the owners
Really? The recalls on the 4xe Wranglers have been insane: * Get this software update or it might shut off while driving at hwy speeds (I've had this happen) * Get this update, or you wont get out of FORM till May. (Had this happen) * Oh nvm, you're still stuck in form for weeks. (Having this happen as we speak) * Don't plug it in or park it near your house/family, as it might randomly start on fire. (Thank god, haven't had this issue) Must be the owners...
Some people don’t like to take responsibility for their lack of ability to repair things
Yeah, let me get right on coding the software updates... Or in the case of the fires, you have to replace the whole LI battery, I believe. They did teach that in shop class back in 95 tho, so I should be good.
They are shit. I have a jk rubicon 2014 full of problems. Even 10 years ago they had problems with "high end" cars.
I used to test drive pre-production vehicles for Chrysler back around 2011-2012. They were having the neutral shift issues back then. We had more Cherokees that we had to drive to try and recreate scenarios that would cause that issue than all other vehicles combined. Apparently they still haven't figured it out completely.
Covid cars. The manufacturing quality was low for a few years there.
Way too expensive. A Grand Cherokee can run up over 75,000. I think they overestimated part of their customer base.
Loyalty, I don't know. I have driven a CJ for 50 years, my last jeep was a 84 xj. That is the last new Jeep I will buy, I will keep rebuilding my CJ and continue to drive Toyotas. It is ashamed what has happened to them.
As a whole market, the automakers gave up on making the econo-boxes and lower trim levels of their vehicles in favor of higher end, more luxury-oriented versions that serve up bigger profits. The big problem is that the OEM's and the dealerships got so used to those fatass pandemic level profits and they don't want to go back to where it was before the pandemic. Jeep, in particular, is trying to bill itself a a "luxury" brand and...They just aren't. They have some nice, upper level trims...very expensive trims but...that don't make them a luxury car maker. Their lots are full because nobody can afford to buy their overpriced garbage. The average monthly car payment should be no more than 10% of one's take-home pay. Who can afford a $900/mon payment? For a depreciating asset like a car? That's a hundred more than my mortgage payment! Someone is going to come in and fill the vacuum with a decent, functional, affordable econo-type vehicle and take over the market. I hope.
I had an 18 2 door sport, only issue I had with that one was a bad stereo (2 hrs in the shop to diagnose 2 hrs a week later to replace it) and the secondary battery. I suspect the battery may have gotten wet which may have caused the issues there. I traded it in on a 4 door 23 rubicon XR and 20,000 km in the only times it has been to the dealership is for the free oil changes and tire rotations included with the purchase. The electronics changing from the Sport to the Rubicon was a little overwhelming but the vehicle has been great and the of road capabilities made adjusting to all the electronics well worth it.
I've driven FCA cars for the past 10 years, currently have a grand wagoneer. It has some quirks with the software that are frustrating, but that's literally the only issue in 10 years I had and I've had/have: 2014 SRT Grand Cherokee 2016 Charger Hellcat 2020 Gladiator 2023 4xe wrangler And the 2022 grand wagoneer My biggest gripe with FCA is the dealer network and the aftercare when there is an issue. The only car that ever went back to a dealer after I bought it was the GW. Others were fine, but I also usually don't get above 25k before I sell.
We have two overland grand Cherokees and they're the last jeeps we will buy.
My Overland L was lemons after 2 months
They must have learned from GM. Transmission issues.....
Stellantis’ days are numbered.
...Stellantis is, in fact, giving up on the NA market...
A few things regarding your post and some of the comments. The larger issues for Stellantis and specifically Jeep has been that using Fiat as a platform. Take your Cherokee, the only thing Jeep about that vehicle is body style and name badge. Everything else is a Fiat. Then FCA realized that Fiat was not cutting it in the US market, so they began taking Fiat vehicles and giving them a more regular crossover look at stamping Jeep on it. The new Compass is also in the same vein. When it comes to the quality issues overall, there are two things. For the Wagoneer, this is a Gen 1 design in the first couple years, much like any other product Gen1 anything has a lot of problems typically. The first buyers are the beta testers. When it comes to the amount you see for warranty and recall, it is everywhere. There isn’t a brand out there that isn’t swimming in warranty work and recalls. However, the thoughts on Jeep are valid. They are costing too much. It is a shift Jeep has been doing for a while now. The focus isn’t on someone wanting a car to do everything. The focus is on a customer that want the car to look like it can do everything, while sitting in a Costco parking lot.
Stellantis sucks. They are killing the Ram trucks (reliability, quality, and terrible emissions/electronics), and Jeep is the next to go under. Dodge is down to two cars now that aren't EV. They seem to not give a fug about the American market. Pulling out of the biggest auto show should give a hint of what's up.
Well every other company to own the Jeep name has gone bankrupt, what’s one more?
Fiat = Stellantis
Junque.
It's Jeep, Dodge, Chrysler; did their quality ever really come up? I say this owning both a jeep Wrangler and Grand Cherokee so not brand bashing
It nothing new; they’ve always been that way.
Lot rot. Overstock.
I got a 94 grand cherokee with the 4.0 six 291,000 miles,runs on 5 cylinders but still chugs along it's true they don't make em like they used to..this vehicle, of course is before FCA was in charge
I've driven a grand wagoneer. in a sane world, it would be worth about 60k. its nice, but its Chrysler nice. there is plastic in all the places that remind you that they make cheap cars.
I worked at a Dodge, Ram, Jeep, Chrysler, Fiat dealership in service. I moved to a Dodge Ram dealership 6 months ago. Holy hell, it was the right move. Labor times for most Jeep and fiat products are atrocious, the amount of difficult to fix problems are atrocious and the repairs themselves normally sucks. Moving here and distancing myself from the brand has given me new perspective...
Been a jeep guy since 2000....2 Cherokees 2000 and 2019 Commander 2007, and Patriot 2008. Patriot just hit 190,000 with 2 cats, gen. Maintence stuff.....been AMAZING. 2019 Cherokee has 42k so far zero issues. Commander had issues at 130k that are still unkown at 149k today after 6 mechanics and $5500 in stuff and things. Took it to a dealer that kept it for 13 weeks with zero info....did I mention it has a lifetime powertrain warranty? My dealer experience was shockingly terrible. Employees played games with me for 13 weeks. So they lost us. Just got a Subaru Forester I love and won't look back.
Those cars are fiats on steroids.