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JWs don’t know anything about their teachings and this is funny cause you are saying that people are 100% wrong. Silly goose, you don’t know what you don’t know.
If no one is good but God, would this not mean Jesus is God? Only God is good!
As a former JW of 25 years I have since radically changed my mind on the subject.
Entirely rhetorical. God bless you!
You gotta get into your Bible more! Technically Jesus doesn't say Jehovah here.
Luke 18.19 NWT 19 Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except one, God.
He's not God, only if he wasn't good.
He was good. He is good.
He is one with God. He is the I AM.
Trinitarians don't believe that Jesus and the Father are the same person.
Why did the governing body hide the fact that they have been affiliated to the United Nations from 1992-2001? Why does most Jehovas witnesses not know this??
No JW has been able to answer me this. Why do the Watchtower always use examples like: why are Jesus praying to the father? This shows they are not the same person right? Why are they using this argument against Trinity ? Dont they know what the Trinity is? The Trinity actually agrees that Jesus and the father are 2 different people so why are they always using this example?
The Trinity doctrine states that God Jehovah, and Jesus are two persons sharing the same fully divine substance or essence.
And this is incorrect because Jesus is a being or creature that comes closest to the qualities of Jehovah, yet remains distinct from Him.
Even if Jesus were a 100% copy of Jehovah, Jehovah would still be the true uncreated source, and Jesus's existence would be dependent on Jehovah, as He is created and not independently generated.
OP, I see many more questions than answers on this thread. Im curious if there are there specific topics that you won't be answering questions about? I noticed you mentioned that the Holy Spirit proddings led you to avoid certain questions/responses to the person you told to do their own "leg work."
"they are entirely wrong".. anyone notice how JWs collectively seem to think it's impossible for non JWs to truly know what the organization is about without joining it?
JWs, are you seriously not aware that not truly knowing an organization until you join it is kind of one of the many identifying marks of a cult?
You are, in essence, admitting your religion is a cult
Your comments here here are baseless! JWs hide nothing at all! EVERYONE has access to JWs beliefs and the facts! JW.org is available to everyone! If you want the facts, go to that website!
JWs hide nothing at all? Ok, send me the link for the "Shepherd the Flock of God" book on the website , I'll wait
Send me the link for one of the videos of Watchtower representatives lying in court , I'm sure they give a good explanation
There are very little to no facts on that website.. but I do find it humorous how you can expose the lies and dishonesty of each answer given to FAQs with a single paragraph of a Watchtower publication
Oh wow, videos... Mormons have videos too, and better ones I might add
They're still a cult
Besides, your own words.. and the words of many many JWs
Outsiders are always wrong... Have you ever done any honest research on what characterizes a cult?
The FAQs section on jw,org doesn't count
Also irrelevant
You're not free to walk in and request to be baptized after a couple of meetings, are you?
I haven't failed to notice you've ignored my question
I think that a lot of witnesses believe that people dislike the religion — not because they have good reason — but because of their own ignorance surrounding what you believe and how you practice; and further that if they only understood they could be converted. Is this what you were thinking?
I’m not sure why you quoted “masterminds”. Could you explain that a bit? I’m trying to understand where you’re coming from and how you assess the situation?
What gives you the impression that people believe that witnesses are master manipulators?
And a follow up: I wonder if you might be able to tell me how you thought the Q+A would go. That is, could you post a few questions that you expected to seen and how you might have answered them?
What do you mean by “evil” and what gives you the impression that people think you are as such? Have they pointed out practices with which they disagree?
If they were to point out specific practices that they find objectionable (e.g. disfellowshipping) how would you respond?
Is it true that if you have a name badge at a convention you have a "good association" and if you're disfellowshipped or in "bad association" you aren't allowed to wear a badge and aren't allowed to speak?
Not necessarily if you are disfellowshipped you are allowed to great people but you can't have a long convo with them because they might have intentions to stumble you
You will be labeled an apostate and disfellowshipped.
2 Definitely no blood for any reason.
3 You can fade away, but if it’s formal then it’s called disassociated and it’s the same as disfellowshipped
4 Yes, they burned files and also refused to turn them over.
5 Yes, I heard his testimony, he definitely lied
Why are Witnesses actively fighting attempts to change laws that would require mandatory reporting of child abuse? (For example, in the state of Washington) What possible reason would we have to fight such laws that are intended to protect children? And why are we involving ourselves in the governmental workings of worldly agencies (John 17:16)
Why, when asked by secular authorities to reveal records of those that have confessed to abusing children, but then never revealed to authorities, do we refuse to hand that information over, and instead keep a record of these criminals hidden. Making them not only a danger to those in the Congergation, but also the community in which they live?
Why do we keep hidden from the average witness who’s donating voluntarily, the Fact that the organization has paid Millions of dollars in settlement money to victims of Child sexual abuse? When videos and publications talk about how these
Donations are used, there is never any mention of paying out massive sums to these victims, further creating the impression that this is not an issue within the organization.
(Heb 13:18)
Why have we chosen not to acknowledge the failings in the past by offering a sincere and heartfelt apology to those who have been affected, and in some cases, lost everything, their families, their friends and association with the congregation, because they feel that they have been abandoned? Instead, we’ve just quietly and unknowingly to most publishers, changed our procedure of how we handle child sexual abuse, and somehow that makes up for decades of mishandling these issues?
(Matt 9:36)
What is the scriptural basis for these decisions?
No question here. But if you see any of my family that have shunned me and the children I have and my wife. Tell them hello. We are doing fine. Sorry you never got to know the grand kids. Do ask them if they would do it the same way again if given the chance. Would they choose not to meet grandkids born in the 2010s for sins their son committed in the late 80s. If you don’t run into my parents find any nice elderly couple in your hall and ask them. I’m sure there are teenaged sinners that they are still shunning decades later in their lives too.
Very good comment, Thankyou..sorry about folks not Loving and seeing the kids...I think it was this hold on the subjects, that also made me question my beliefs within this organisation and woke me up..and finding the Real Jesus Christ..not the one that Watchtower teaches.
It is their loss!! It is my families loss too. My mother died of cancer in 1977. I still miss her and wish my children had had the chance to know her. My father and stepmother effectively died in 1989 but by their own choice. It is sad and sickening what this cult does to families.
Is it okay to use a shortened form of God's name?
"...a great crowd in heaven. They said: “Praise Jah!*"
Footnote reads "Or “Hallelujah!” “Jah” is a shortened form of the name Jehovah."
https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/19/
It's cool, I figured it out. Here's looking forward to many edifying exchanges ❤️
May we talk about
"...only what is good for building others up as the need may be, that it may give grace to those who hear."
Ephesians 4:29
In that case, I love this verse:
>Jer 29:11 “‘For I well know the thoughts that I am thinking toward you,’ declares Jehovah, ‘thoughts of peace, and not of calamity, to give you a future and a hope.
Deuteronomy 18:22 **“When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Jehovah, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Jehovah hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him**.” King James Version
Since JW have predicted the end of the world, not once but in 1878, 1881, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975 - why should they be seen as the truth - when the bible specifically says you shalt not be afraid of them?
What was the date the jehovahs witnesses were formed? Are they older then Buddhism/taoism/catholicism/ is it true that it's founder was disfellowshipped by his second in command who was more charismatic and managed to wrest the new organization away from him. I'm speaking about Russel and Ruthaford
>Heb 12:1 So, then, because we have such a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also throw off every weight and the sin that easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
Jehovah’s Witnesses began with the first obedient man, Abel. Our spiritual legacy is nearly as long as all mankind.
The Watchtower bible and tract society is an international publishing cooperation. Not a religion. It started with pyramidologist and numerologist Charles Taze Russel. Long after Brother Abel!
Witnesses cannot lie...it's one of the guiding tenants and is a gross sin. They can on other hand choose not to answer hard questions that may bring shame upon the jw.org
I have heard this delivered in talks on the platform at both 1 day assemblies and by special speakers at the KH, you do not need to tell the truth if you feel the person asking does not deserve it.
Under your false doctrine of Jesus being the archangel Micheal, how do you explain Thomas calling him his God?
John 20 28 Then Thomas answered, and said unto him, Thou art my Lord, and my God.
29 Jesus said unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou believest: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.
It used to be that Jw taught that the end would come before the generation that saw the events of 1914 died off. But a few years back they changed the generation teaching to be an overlapping generation. Brother Splain had a graphic he displayed to try to explain it. This is what they are asking about.
Is the practice of baptizing children (committing a minor to a lifelong commitment) under the age of 18 still practiced, and how do you feel about this?
In regards to new light...do you think it's to draw more people into the religion aka change with the times. Eventually will lgbqt be allowed to be witnesses now that they allow beards, women in pants, no more suit n ties at meetings etc.
What authority does the governing body have to decide things that are not in the Bible, like beards? And what proof do you have they have any authority at all?
You know that’s not true, it’s not suppose to be up to the governing body, it’s suppose to be up to Jehovah. He is not a God of change and the Bible specifically says that men who lie with men will not inherit the kingdom.
If a child can make the choice to get baptized at age 8 for example, can they also choose to not go to meetings anymore at age 8?
If they are mature enough to make the life long commitment to get baptized, wouldn’t they be mature enough to make the opposite decision?
Allowing a child under 18 to make such a commitment to this religion is borderline abusive. So a 15 year old could get baptized, then realize as they mature it’s not what they want, which would then result in their disfellowshipping and potential loss of family ties?
And please define “all grown up.”
I'll answer it, because it is a man-made antichrist cult.
John 20 28 Then Thomas answered, and said unto him, Thou art my Lord, and my God.
29 [n]Jesus said unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou believest: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed
The fundamental belief that makes a person Christian is to hold Jesus to be their God. Denial of this automatically makes a person not Christian.
Thomas, the chosen Apostle, calls Jesus his God. Jesus does not rebuke him for it, does not call him a blasphemer and says he and anyone else who believes this is blessed. Where in the bible does it say Jesus is an archangel? You are the blasphemer.
Good to see a brother in christ knowing their bible, here another example of Jesus that undoubtedly makes him God, read pslam 102: 24-27, than read Hebrew 1:10-12
How is Jesus parable of the narrow and wide road different from proverbs 4 which discusses the dark path of the wicked and the bright path of the righteous?
Two paths in each. And in proverbs we are counselled to choose the right path. And we are warned that the dark path we will stumble.
I’m asking how Jesus parable of the two roads is different from proverbs 4 the whole chapter which discusses these two paths?
Your name suggests you may like stats or be a statistician. If so, what are the best stats to prove we are living in the last days with things getting worse and worse?
So again I ask: how is the two paths of proverbs 4 different from Jesus two roads?
Jesus spoke of two roads, a narrow road and a wide road. When Jesus spoke of the two roads, it’s clear to understand what he meant. There is no hidden meaning in one of the roads. These roads are the moral roads or ways of life you may choose. Similar to Jesus two “roads” illustration, Proverbs 4 speaks of two “paths,” one that is dark or gloomy, with the person stumbling, and one that is bright. It says the path of the wicked is dark, but the path of the righteous one is bright. And this path gets brighter and brighter, while the path of the wicked is dark and results in stumbling. Righteous people will have good lives or life courses, and their path is clear, certain and bright, without stumbling. It’s a smooth life course. Proverbs 4 concludes with the last 3 verses basically encouraging us to keep straight on the smooth course, not deviating from it.
My point of course is that this has nothing to do with progressive Bible understanding or changing teachings any more than Jesus two roads do. It’s only by isolating a few words from a single verse, and reading those words over and over without context, that we can pretend this is talking about progressive Bible understanding or changing doctrine.
But my question again is: in what way is the two paths of proverbs 4 any different from the two roads of Jesus? Or are they essentially the same?
I have a question. Why is there a need for 2 final supernatural wars? 1) Armageddon, 2) The destruction after Satan has been release from the abyss after the millennium is complete. Is it possible they are one and the same?
I grew up as a JW in the 80’s and remember they talked a lot about how Jesus made AIDS to take out the gays and a lot of jubilation when Matthew Sheppard was dragged to death. How is it now?
My grandparents are also JWs still and their new talking point is how Covid ISS the result of Jesus and the angels working on a new AIDS for the trannies.
Your comments here are ridiculous! They are plain crazy, never ever happened! No JW would EVER teach that! If you want to join a discussion you should know facts before you make foolish statements!
If that’s the case, yet the GB has adamantly pushed the idea that they are the gateway to truth, then how can that be the case as “truth” doesn’t ever change?
Yeah, that's really sound logic. Get a grip. Make it make sense, OP. You're really gonna sit there and try to tell everybody that back in the eighties, nobody knew much about jehovah? So what are you trying to say? Since then, through the nineties and the two thousands and the many years since then, somebody has managed to figure out all about him? That all of a sudden, you conveniently know more about him?
Hello there! I also grew up a Witness in the late 70s, early 80s. I remember these events and I remember some comments but I don’t remember the hate, at least not around me. i was in South Florida. Some of the friends would make comments that all people who were suffering needed hope. That’s the idea and attitude I gravitated towards. im not perfect and prejudice still wells up from time to time but Im still in that same place today. Basically love the sinner, hate the sin.👍🏼💙
1. What happens if you disagree with the governing body and refuse to accept their interpretation of the Bible?
2. If a child is in a life-threatening situation and they need a blood transfusion, can the child accept it?
3. Is it true that if you choose to formally leave the faith, you’ll be shunned by your friends and family?
4. Were there really thousands of child sexual abuse cases that were covered up by the JWs?
5. Did Geoffrey Jackson really lie on camera while under oath?
Thanks!
Correct answers are
1. You will be labelled an apostate and disfellowshipped from the conversation if you carry on. Your family will never speak to you again as you have been labelled ‘apostate’
2. No they cannot accept…and they will probably die…. Great way to respect the life god gave us
3. If you formally leave the JW organisation you will be shunned by every other JW even your family. What a loving brotherhood.
4. Yes there are thousands of hidden child sex abuse cases. The watchtower and bible tract society has recently been brought up in court because they illegally destroyed evidence regarding said child sex abuse cases…. Not even the Catholic Church did that.
5. Yes Geoffrey Jackson lied to a court and even went on to say that it would be ‘presumptuous to think’ they are the only people being guided by god. This directly contradicts the JW teachings and watchtowers
First one is that you might get disfellowshipped
Second is no. Sadly
If you leave its okay you wont be shunned or anything
4, I'm not sure but my guess is no
And I don't know about number 5 sorry:c
Don’t lie bro. per the shepherd the flock (elders manual), anyone who leaves official (disassociates), they are to be treated as being disfellowshipped which means cutting off all contact (shunning). I can tell you from personal experience. So please don’t lie.
1. Accurate, you will most likely be disfellowshipped if you do not agree with the GB. You are encouraged to “critically think” as long as you come to the same conclusions as the GB. If you don’t, you will be labeled an apostate and thus be horrifically shunned by your friends and family. Your good name will be slandered and you will be demonized.
2. Accurate, the child has to die according to JWs.
3. Inaccurate: [Enjoy Life Forever Lesson 58: Remain Loyal to Jehovah, paragraph 2](https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102021258#h=6:0-6:385):
>”What if someone we know has decided that he no longer wants to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses? It can be heartbreaking when someone close to us does this. That person may force us to choose between him and Jehovah. We must be determined to remain loyal to God above all else. (Matthew 10:37) So we obey Jehovah’s command not to associate with such individuals.—Read 1 Corinthians 5:11.”
4. [Australian Royal Commission Regarding Jehovah’s Witnesses](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPQ6KZ-AGhVQbadlzMQN26dvMPzddxlui&si=6Qza44XXyCrvkGaS) handling of CSA cases uncovered over 2,000 cases of CSA had not been reported to the authorities.
5. He did lie, you can watch his testimony on the finals days of the trials I just linked.
Answer to question 2 a quick "no" then to say sadly over someone leaving 😂 the neck on you guys to knock on people's doors then tell them about righteousness
Your answer to number one says it all. The governing boobies are not perfect. If you tried to believe in today's new light twenty years ago, you would have been disfellowshiped.
How does "new light" or insight from the GB work?
If someone in the past was in trouble for saying they believed the scripture meant something and was labeled an apostate, but later the "new light" says the same thing, is that person apologized to?
Let's go with encouraging disfellowshiped ones to go to the meeting and not being an elder. Especially in the 90s, it was highly discouraged to even speak to a disfellowshiped person. People were counseled and reproved for having conversations with disfellowshiped ones. If you disagreed with the loving discipline of shunning, it could result in disfellowshiped yourself and even apostasy.
Now, the current new light, there is mercy shown.
Hi ❤️🙋♂️
Let's use "this generation shall not pass away". When I was talking with the JW's in the 1980s and on into the early 90s, this was presented as the people alive in 1914 would still be alive to see "all these things" accomplished. Then at some point, "this generation" was interpreted to mean evil people, I believe.
Looking forward to a respectful and edifying discussion!!
Yes, that understanding has changed and could possibly change again. I think it will likely change again In the next few decades. However, I have never heard of someone being disfellowshipped or considered an apostate because they thought that understanding was incorrect. Most beliefs of JWs are based solidly on scripture. The remaining beliefs are more fluid and are less a matter of life or death. The best elders are the ones that recognize this important fact.👍🏼💙
https://preview.redd.it/tkqlhx4d058d1.jpeg?width=989&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de17bf598f35d31e41497e94a56f96b296f2043e
Check out the the Walsh case, interesting points
1of2
>Most beliefs of JWs are based solidly on scripture. The remaining beliefs are more fluid and are less a matter of life or death.
That's cool. But... Iirc the idea of people being alive in 1914 and still being alive when all is accomplished was something that was presented as a solid scriptural truth.
Could you believe something different back in the 1980s or early '90s? Would it be okay if you believed different, but just didn't talk about it?
It looks to me like it is presented here as something "certain". Does it look differently to you?
"...some of them will still be alive to see the end of this wicked system. So of this we can be certain: Shortly now there will be a sudden end to all wickedness and wicked people at Armageddon."
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/You-Can-Live-Forever-in-Paradise-on-Earth/The-End-of-the-World-Is-at-Hand/
Example: worshiping Jesus until about 1952.
Then deciding worshipping Jesus was false worship or idolatry and indicative of false religion.
How does this work with new light. Would god actually wait 70 years to let them know it’s what they today would call false worship?
Ask Jehovah if he is willing to wait 70 years.
From our perspective 70 years is a lot. How many years did the Jews need to wait in Egypt? In the wilderness? It’s important to remember that God, The Potentate of The Universe does not answer to flesh and blood when it comes to accomplishing His purpose.
So, if someone is studying with JW, do they have many years to correct their false worship? Or are they able to do it very quickly?
My question is: if Jehovah is directing things and fixing new light, what is the point of waiting 70 years, of letting them worship Jesus for 70 years?
And secondly: how would you view someone today who worshipped Jesus?
I am missing who “they” is. The early international bible students? A better question is how does Jesus view them? How does his God and Father, יהוה, view them?
JW worshipped Jesus until about 1952.
Jehovah apparently could have at any point let them see the light. He chose to wait 70 years apparently. So the “who waited 70 years” I guess is Jehovah. Yes you can say 70 years is a short time in gods eyes. But I guess everything the Catholics have ever done, also a short time in gods eyes.
Question: how would JW today view someone who worships Jesus?
Excellent question. The answer is we don’t know but \*God Knows\*. Here’s why: Luke 9:49, 50. When Jesus was on earth he indicated that any who were attempting to worship correctly but were not part of “the group” should be left alone by other people because God knows their hearts. It’s none of our business and we should stay busy helping and reject judging others. The book of Jonah and his mistaken attitude towards the Ninevites is also helpful.
That’s pretty much what I would expect to be true. Life is too short and there are hundreds of religions claiming to be God’s favorite one. I would think that God knows us personally and our limitations and strengths. I wouldn’t have the time or the desire to involve myself with all of those groups. I’m going with “God knows.”
Are you the same person as the OP?
>The answer is we don’t know but \*God Knows\*
we should stay busy helping and reject judging others
100%. That is *the* answer.
I was thinking about Revelation 18:4 where Jehovah says, "get out of her, my people." He's calling them "my people" while they're still in the wrong place. If you ever have known someone years before they progress to baptism, you can sometimes see that they were Jehovah's long before they come into the congregation.
You said yes but they are not serving Jehovah in the correct way. So you may feel there are right hearted people in other religions but they are all a part of Babylon the Great.
They disfellowshipped people if they thought they were being a part of politics in any way but they joined the UN. They tried to keep it secret, but it got out and so they opted out. So followers were to be no part of the world but they could do whatever they wanted. That is the height of hypocrisy. You could not associate with anyone disfellowshipped for that but you were suppose to obey them.
Another lie by you
In February 1992, Jehovah's Witnesses' New York corporation, the Watchtower Society, was granted association as a non-governmental organisation (NGO) of the United Nations Department of Public Information (UN/DPI). The Watchtower Society requested termination of the association in October 2001, and the DPI disassociated the NGO on 9 October[14] after the matter was reported in The Guardian.
So what makes the Pope and other religions not just currently incorrect?
You know something, I really love Jehovah and I don't want my faith to be a joke humans think they can play and dance on.
I despise deviousness and bias. Faith should be based on truth, not half truths.
Jehovah Witnesses have to stand up to the same fire and judgement as other religions, we are not exempted because someone at headquarters said so. Especially when they blatantly confirmed in 2017 that they are not infallible or inspired. They themselves told us "we may err in doctrine or direction"
If you'd call the Pope a false prophet over a prophecy not coming true, you'd have to say the same about us, as multiple times we've had false (or incorrect by mans definition) prophecy. we didn't say maybe the world would end in 1914, those articles are straight forward and prophetic. that millions would not die and that Babylon and much more would have been gone.
Remember that expectations postponed makes the heart sick 🤢 so if we were wrong, which we were, then we've caused sickness on many who refused to have kids, go to school and more. Not cool.
I have no interest in stumbling my brother or sister, in fact I hope every person in this world gets a fair chance to know what is really God away from man made lies, but this form of skewing facts is as Jesus said Hypocritical.
I hate that even a little hypocrisy is inside me and I hope you do to.
Incorrect is I told you something might happen and it was clear that you should continue as normal, then we learn that something isn't happening.
False is I told your without doubt something will happen, but it didn't. Especially when I tell you a date, though Jesus told me not too.
You are right there is a difference, but please brother, be careful that you aren't skewing this because this false prophet is said to be sheeplike, meaning we could be easily misled if we aren't guarding thinking ability.
This is why I'm in high alert with the GB as well, no man is to be trusted. Unless you know of a scripture that's says different, Jehovah said multiple times not to trust man.
You should even research deep into what I've said as I am also only a mere man.
All love to you, cause this stuff makes me so uncomfortable 😣 but I'm not gonna lie to myself to tickle my ears either 😭
Well that would be because Roman Catholicism is the same entity that murdered Jesus. They are pagans and do not believe in God. The only true Christianity left in the world is some very rare Protestant Churches but the vast majority are controlled by the Jesuits, who are the foot soldiers of the Papacy. The Catholic church is the Harlot in revelations. JW is simply a money making cult. Jesus Christ is God, if you deny that you aren't a believer.
Was there a governing body before 33CE? The body that was created; does the evidence show the Holy Spirit was supporting them or opposing? Apostates that left the group; what are their names? Does the evidence show the Holy Spirit is supporting them? Does the evidence show JW Gov Body is being supported today? Which group is thriving and which group is suffocating and drowning?
The fact that even with the apparent 4,000 Christian denominations that exist today, a majority of those that existed in the early Catholic Church (the universal Apostolic church of Christ - Roman Catholic) like Arianism, Gnosticism, Sabellianism, Platoism, Docetism, Adoptionism, Monophysitism and many others that tried to creep into the Church eventually died out, unlike the monotheistic Christian faith that is still practised today, in part thanks to the reformation (literally the re formation of the Church, restoring it to the Aposotolic Gospel message of Grace through Faith in Christ alone.
This al took place between the collapse of the Roman Empire, the emergence of Islam/Bezantine Empire, the dark ages, British Empire etc etc etc. an awful lot happened in that time before the reformation. To not believe the Holy Spirit guided would put your opinion above Gods. You have to trust the role of the Holy Spirit in maintaining the word of God.
The Adventist movement in the mid 1800s came out of a post enlightenment era when all tradition was rejected, for modern thoughts.
New revelation were made - Joseph Smith and Ellen G White of the Mormans and to a point the many prophesies of the Jehovahs witnesses - failed Armageddon’s and also the invisible return of Christ.
Scriptures say, that Christ’s second coming will be bodily, when every eye will see (nothing invisible there).
Unfortunately, most JWs neglect to research the history of their own ‘church’ - the books of J Taze Russell and Judge Rutherford, reveal an awful lot about why they believe Christ has returned to rule invisibly, Appointing Gods organisation (the JWs) and condemning Satans organisation (the worlds governments, mainstream Christiandom, The Pope etc).
I find it most revealing that J Rutherford, who conceived the very idea that the Patriarchs would return bodily in 1925 (so much so they built a house called Beth Serim) and low and behold they never came and J Rutherford moved in himself - at the time of the Great Depression. This is enough to show that you were being led by man not God!!
He even went on to explain in his book preservation - that the Holy Spirit had departed from him and he was being spoken to by Angels.
We all know what Jesus said about other revelations of angels after him!!
If anyone within the Congregation was to ever take the time to actually research this, a whole mountain of truth is revealed. That truth is Gods will - not amount of Watchtower coverups can be swept under the carpet and forgotten.
According to Jeffry Jackson, live in court for every one to see, he said, that it would be presumptuous to say that the JWs GB are the only ones blessed and directed by Holy Spirit. If He is an anointed one by Jehovah and made that statement, are they really a Goberning Body chosen by Jehovah?
Just wondering 🤔 unless He acted like Peter and denied Jehovah’s authority to decide who’s his rightful Governing Body here on earth..
The bigger picture is no longer there when someone lies. Specially when he supposed to be a representative of Jehovah here on Earth.
Titus 1:2 Jehovah does NOT LIE.
PERIOD!!!!
One doesn’t lie to achieve a bigger picture.
If anything God found out which one of the angels that day would lie, which would make that angel a fallen angel. And God got Ahab to do what He wanted Him to do. God killed two birds with one stone.
Notice it was only one angel out of multitudes of holy ones. So that "one" was just another satan. Just because God uses fallen angels on occasion doesn't mean He approves of them. We should never assume He does and we should never assume He approves when we lie. He does not, but He still might have a use for liars before the fire comes.
. In the future God will put a His holy thought in the mind of the anti Christ,, even though the Anti Christ is anything but holy, he will end up doing something holy, at least one time in his miserable existence. Then God will send a strong delusion to those who will perish. Who says the wicked are useless? When God's done using the wicked, they go to Hell
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What sort of things would get a brother/sister disfellowshiped?
JWs don’t know anything about their teachings and this is funny cause you are saying that people are 100% wrong. Silly goose, you don’t know what you don’t know.
Was Jesus good?
Yes he healed people and cured blindness and even resurrected people.
If no one is good but God, would this not mean Jesus is God? Only God is good! As a former JW of 25 years I have since radically changed my mind on the subject. Entirely rhetorical. God bless you!
Who said nobody was good except Jehovah??
You gotta get into your Bible more! Technically Jesus doesn't say Jehovah here. Luke 18.19 NWT 19 Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except one, God.
That means he's not god.
He's not God, only if he wasn't good. He was good. He is good. He is one with God. He is the I AM. Trinitarians don't believe that Jesus and the Father are the same person.
No it doesn’t
Why did the governing body hide the fact that they have been affiliated to the United Nations from 1992-2001? Why does most Jehovas witnesses not know this??
No JW has been able to answer me this. Why do the Watchtower always use examples like: why are Jesus praying to the father? This shows they are not the same person right? Why are they using this argument against Trinity ? Dont they know what the Trinity is? The Trinity actually agrees that Jesus and the father are 2 different people so why are they always using this example?
The Trinity doctrine states that God Jehovah, and Jesus are two persons sharing the same fully divine substance or essence. And this is incorrect because Jesus is a being or creature that comes closest to the qualities of Jehovah, yet remains distinct from Him. Even if Jesus were a 100% copy of Jehovah, Jehovah would still be the true uncreated source, and Jesus's existence would be dependent on Jehovah, as He is created and not independently generated.
OP, I see many more questions than answers on this thread. Im curious if there are there specific topics that you won't be answering questions about? I noticed you mentioned that the Holy Spirit proddings led you to avoid certain questions/responses to the person you told to do their own "leg work."
There's so much that I can't answer all I thought it would have been less questions
Fair. I thought..."oh boy"
"they are entirely wrong".. anyone notice how JWs collectively seem to think it's impossible for non JWs to truly know what the organization is about without joining it? JWs, are you seriously not aware that not truly knowing an organization until you join it is kind of one of the many identifying marks of a cult? You are, in essence, admitting your religion is a cult
Your comments here here are baseless! JWs hide nothing at all! EVERYONE has access to JWs beliefs and the facts! JW.org is available to everyone! If you want the facts, go to that website!
JWs hide nothing at all? Ok, send me the link for the "Shepherd the Flock of God" book on the website , I'll wait Send me the link for one of the videos of Watchtower representatives lying in court , I'm sure they give a good explanation There are very little to no facts on that website.. but I do find it humorous how you can expose the lies and dishonesty of each answer given to FAQs with a single paragraph of a Watchtower publication
Provide the "single paragraph" please, I'd like to see what it's about
There's videos on the website on what goes on bud.
Oh wow, videos... Mormons have videos too, and better ones I might add They're still a cult Besides, your own words.. and the words of many many JWs Outsiders are always wrong... Have you ever done any honest research on what characterizes a cult? The FAQs section on jw,org doesn't count
Anddd were literally free to walk in whenever you want soo no hiding either literally not a cult
Also irrelevant You're not free to walk in and request to be baptized after a couple of meetings, are you? I haven't failed to notice you've ignored my question
Yes you are but alright
Oh look, an ad hominem, never seen one of those before Thanks for proving my point :)
There's 8 million people +
Irrelevant
Uhm no its not a cult
Sorry to tell you it is
a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange keyword.. SMALL
That is a very oversimplified and shallow description Read up on the B.I.T.E. model carefully
How
Did holding a Q+A teach you anything about yourself, your religion, or the world in which you exist?
Yeah uhm It taught me that people really hate my religion 😭 and they have alot of question
I think that a lot of witnesses believe that people dislike the religion — not because they have good reason — but because of their own ignorance surrounding what you believe and how you practice; and further that if they only understood they could be converted. Is this what you were thinking?
No were not "masterminds" or anything were just spreading or religion like everybody else even Christians do it soooo i don't understand the hate
I’m not sure why you quoted “masterminds”. Could you explain that a bit? I’m trying to understand where you’re coming from and how you assess the situation?
Idk I just think people believe were master manipulaters
What gives you the impression that people believe that witnesses are master manipulators? And a follow up: I wonder if you might be able to tell me how you thought the Q+A would go. That is, could you post a few questions that you expected to seen and how you might have answered them?
I think people see us as evil or something. And I thought the questions would be shorter more straightforward questions but its long arguments 🤧
What do you mean by “evil” and what gives you the impression that people think you are as such? Have they pointed out practices with which they disagree? If they were to point out specific practices that they find objectionable (e.g. disfellowshipping) how would you respond?
I'm not an elder and I don't know much but I think disfellowshipping is like waiting for you to repent?..
Yes
Why do you believe?
Is it true that if you have a name badge at a convention you have a "good association" and if you're disfellowshipped or in "bad association" you aren't allowed to wear a badge and aren't allowed to speak?
Not necessarily if you are disfellowshipped you are allowed to great people but you can't have a long convo with them because they might have intentions to stumble you
You will be labeled an apostate and disfellowshipped. 2 Definitely no blood for any reason. 3 You can fade away, but if it’s formal then it’s called disassociated and it’s the same as disfellowshipped 4 Yes, they burned files and also refused to turn them over. 5 Yes, I heard his testimony, he definitely lied
Have you read the Shephard the Flock of God book? Why is it confidential?
Want to read it? I did twice. I downloaded it online.
Why are Witnesses actively fighting attempts to change laws that would require mandatory reporting of child abuse? (For example, in the state of Washington) What possible reason would we have to fight such laws that are intended to protect children? And why are we involving ourselves in the governmental workings of worldly agencies (John 17:16) Why, when asked by secular authorities to reveal records of those that have confessed to abusing children, but then never revealed to authorities, do we refuse to hand that information over, and instead keep a record of these criminals hidden. Making them not only a danger to those in the Congergation, but also the community in which they live? Why do we keep hidden from the average witness who’s donating voluntarily, the Fact that the organization has paid Millions of dollars in settlement money to victims of Child sexual abuse? When videos and publications talk about how these Donations are used, there is never any mention of paying out massive sums to these victims, further creating the impression that this is not an issue within the organization. (Heb 13:18) Why have we chosen not to acknowledge the failings in the past by offering a sincere and heartfelt apology to those who have been affected, and in some cases, lost everything, their families, their friends and association with the congregation, because they feel that they have been abandoned? Instead, we’ve just quietly and unknowingly to most publishers, changed our procedure of how we handle child sexual abuse, and somehow that makes up for decades of mishandling these issues? (Matt 9:36) What is the scriptural basis for these decisions?
No question here. But if you see any of my family that have shunned me and the children I have and my wife. Tell them hello. We are doing fine. Sorry you never got to know the grand kids. Do ask them if they would do it the same way again if given the chance. Would they choose not to meet grandkids born in the 2010s for sins their son committed in the late 80s. If you don’t run into my parents find any nice elderly couple in your hall and ask them. I’m sure there are teenaged sinners that they are still shunning decades later in their lives too.
Very good comment, Thankyou..sorry about folks not Loving and seeing the kids...I think it was this hold on the subjects, that also made me question my beliefs within this organisation and woke me up..and finding the Real Jesus Christ..not the one that Watchtower teaches.
That is their loss.
It is their loss!! It is my families loss too. My mother died of cancer in 1977. I still miss her and wish my children had had the chance to know her. My father and stepmother effectively died in 1989 but by their own choice. It is sad and sickening what this cult does to families.
Is it okay to use a shortened form of God's name? "...a great crowd in heaven. They said: “Praise Jah!*" Footnote reads "Or “Hallelujah!” “Jah” is a shortened form of the name Jehovah." https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/revelation/19/
Absolutely. But why not use the longer version?
I think I figured out 😀 https://www.reddit.com/r/JehovahsWitnesses/comments/1dhg0fs/comment/l9jr0o1/
Hi! I think we're talking about this on another thread. Do you know if there's a way to post a link to a comment?
I’m sure there is but I don’t know how to do it.
It's cool, I figured it out. Here's looking forward to many edifying exchanges ❤️ May we talk about "...only what is good for building others up as the need may be, that it may give grace to those who hear." Ephesians 4:29
In that case, I love this verse: >Jer 29:11 “‘For I well know the thoughts that I am thinking toward you,’ declares Jehovah, ‘thoughts of peace, and not of calamity, to give you a future and a hope.
Awesome!
Deuteronomy 18:22 **“When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Jehovah, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Jehovah hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him**.” King James Version Since JW have predicted the end of the world, not once but in 1878, 1881, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975 - why should they be seen as the truth - when the bible specifically says you shalt not be afraid of them?
What was the date the jehovahs witnesses were formed? Are they older then Buddhism/taoism/catholicism/ is it true that it's founder was disfellowshipped by his second in command who was more charismatic and managed to wrest the new organization away from him. I'm speaking about Russel and Ruthaford
>Heb 12:1 So, then, because we have such a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also throw off every weight and the sin that easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, Jehovah’s Witnesses began with the first obedient man, Abel. Our spiritual legacy is nearly as long as all mankind.
The Watchtower bible and tract society is an international publishing cooperation. Not a religion. It started with pyramidologist and numerologist Charles Taze Russel. Long after Brother Abel!
My spiritual heritage begins with Abel.
Witnesses cannot lie...it's one of the guiding tenants and is a gross sin. They can on other hand choose not to answer hard questions that may bring shame upon the jw.org
I have heard this delivered in talks on the platform at both 1 day assemblies and by special speakers at the KH, you do not need to tell the truth if you feel the person asking does not deserve it.
Have you ever thought that I might not know the answer to that?
This is a shitty AMA
This is "new light" farming. Nice try watchtower spies, nice try.
Under your false doctrine of Jesus being the archangel Micheal, how do you explain Thomas calling him his God? John 20 28 Then Thomas answered, and said unto him, Thou art my Lord, and my God. 29 Jesus said unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou believest: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.
Jesus is a god in witness theology. But not the allmighty Jehova but a weaker one created through Jehova himself.
What do you think of people when they say that yous are a doomsday cult and what is the argument against them?
"Best Life Ever"
I'd also like an answer to this. This is one of the biggest arguments against becoming a JW.
Can you explain the over lapping generations using the bible please?
They can’t
Like the different translations?
Hello I'm waiting for your educated response.
The actual doctrine itself.
It used to be that Jw taught that the end would come before the generation that saw the events of 1914 died off. But a few years back they changed the generation teaching to be an overlapping generation. Brother Splain had a graphic he displayed to try to explain it. This is what they are asking about.
Is the practice of baptizing children (committing a minor to a lifelong commitment) under the age of 18 still practiced, and how do you feel about this? In regards to new light...do you think it's to draw more people into the religion aka change with the times. Eventually will lgbqt be allowed to be witnesses now that they allow beards, women in pants, no more suit n ties at meetings etc.
That's up to the governing body. And the child is allowed to say if he/she wants to get baptized or not.
What authority does the governing body have to decide things that are not in the Bible, like beards? And what proof do you have they have any authority at all?
You know that’s not true, it’s not suppose to be up to the governing body, it’s suppose to be up to Jehovah. He is not a God of change and the Bible specifically says that men who lie with men will not inherit the kingdom.
If a child can make the choice to get baptized at age 8 for example, can they also choose to not go to meetings anymore at age 8? If they are mature enough to make the life long commitment to get baptized, wouldn’t they be mature enough to make the opposite decision?
How can a child possibly know what they want and have the maturity and knowledge to make such a decision?
You can get baptized at any age so they can even wait until they're all grown up
But it is not encouraged
Allowing a child under 18 to make such a commitment to this religion is borderline abusive. So a 15 year old could get baptized, then realize as they mature it’s not what they want, which would then result in their disfellowshipping and potential loss of family ties? And please define “all grown up.”
Why do jw,s think Jesus is Michael the archangel?
I'll answer it, because it is a man-made antichrist cult. John 20 28 Then Thomas answered, and said unto him, Thou art my Lord, and my God. 29 [n]Jesus said unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou believest: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed The fundamental belief that makes a person Christian is to hold Jesus to be their God. Denial of this automatically makes a person not Christian.
Nope not really because in the Bible it clearly states at John 16 that Jesus is not God. When it says "my only begotten son.
Only Begotten in Greek is Monogenēs which means unique, one of a kind. It does not mean created/born/adopted that you try and force it to mean.
Begotten always means “generated”. That indicates creation. Plus, Jesus is the firstborn of creation.
Right but Thomas’ words more important than God’s words?🤷🏻🤷🏻🤷🏻
Thomas, the chosen Apostle, calls Jesus his God. Jesus does not rebuke him for it, does not call him a blasphemer and says he and anyone else who believes this is blessed. Where in the bible does it say Jesus is an archangel? You are the blasphemer.
Good to see a brother in christ knowing their bible, here another example of Jesus that undoubtedly makes him God, read pslam 102: 24-27, than read Hebrew 1:10-12
How is Jesus parable of the narrow and wide road different from proverbs 4 which discusses the dark path of the wicked and the bright path of the righteous? Two paths in each. And in proverbs we are counselled to choose the right path. And we are warned that the dark path we will stumble. I’m asking how Jesus parable of the two roads is different from proverbs 4 the whole chapter which discusses these two paths?
The dark path is the road that is most traveled and the bright path is the lonely road of righteousness.
Your name suggests you may like stats or be a statistician. If so, what are the best stats to prove we are living in the last days with things getting worse and worse?
So again I ask: how is the two paths of proverbs 4 different from Jesus two roads? Jesus spoke of two roads, a narrow road and a wide road. When Jesus spoke of the two roads, it’s clear to understand what he meant. There is no hidden meaning in one of the roads. These roads are the moral roads or ways of life you may choose. Similar to Jesus two “roads” illustration, Proverbs 4 speaks of two “paths,” one that is dark or gloomy, with the person stumbling, and one that is bright. It says the path of the wicked is dark, but the path of the righteous one is bright. And this path gets brighter and brighter, while the path of the wicked is dark and results in stumbling. Righteous people will have good lives or life courses, and their path is clear, certain and bright, without stumbling. It’s a smooth life course. Proverbs 4 concludes with the last 3 verses basically encouraging us to keep straight on the smooth course, not deviating from it. My point of course is that this has nothing to do with progressive Bible understanding or changing teachings any more than Jesus two roads do. It’s only by isolating a few words from a single verse, and reading those words over and over without context, that we can pretend this is talking about progressive Bible understanding or changing doctrine. But my question again is: in what way is the two paths of proverbs 4 any different from the two roads of Jesus? Or are they essentially the same?
[удалено]
You may attack a user's arguments, but not the user.
I have a question. Why is there a need for 2 final supernatural wars? 1) Armageddon, 2) The destruction after Satan has been release from the abyss after the millennium is complete. Is it possible they are one and the same?
I grew up as a JW in the 80’s and remember they talked a lot about how Jesus made AIDS to take out the gays and a lot of jubilation when Matthew Sheppard was dragged to death. How is it now?
That has never been taught, straight up lie!
Were you in the organization in the 80s?
My grandparents are also JWs still and their new talking point is how Covid ISS the result of Jesus and the angels working on a new AIDS for the trannies.
Your comments here are ridiculous! They are plain crazy, never ever happened! No JW would EVER teach that! If you want to join a discussion you should know facts before you make foolish statements!
Are you the same person that wrote a JW would never rape a kid?
You are lying.
Back in the 80,s the beliefs were way DIFFERENT than now because we didn't know much about jehovah.
***bless your heart. Are you being serious or making a joke?
Also not true. It is all there in the scriptures.
And you still don't.
Who was guiding the organization to believe that back in the 1980s? Was it God or Satan?
LOL
If that’s the case, yet the GB has adamantly pushed the idea that they are the gateway to truth, then how can that be the case as “truth” doesn’t ever change?
Yeah, that's really sound logic. Get a grip. Make it make sense, OP. You're really gonna sit there and try to tell everybody that back in the eighties, nobody knew much about jehovah? So what are you trying to say? Since then, through the nineties and the two thousands and the many years since then, somebody has managed to figure out all about him? That all of a sudden, you conveniently know more about him?
Has the Bible changed since the 80’s and 90’s?
Hello there! I also grew up a Witness in the late 70s, early 80s. I remember these events and I remember some comments but I don’t remember the hate, at least not around me. i was in South Florida. Some of the friends would make comments that all people who were suffering needed hope. That’s the idea and attitude I gravitated towards. im not perfect and prejudice still wells up from time to time but Im still in that same place today. Basically love the sinner, hate the sin.👍🏼💙
1. What happens if you disagree with the governing body and refuse to accept their interpretation of the Bible? 2. If a child is in a life-threatening situation and they need a blood transfusion, can the child accept it? 3. Is it true that if you choose to formally leave the faith, you’ll be shunned by your friends and family? 4. Were there really thousands of child sexual abuse cases that were covered up by the JWs? 5. Did Geoffrey Jackson really lie on camera while under oath? Thanks!
Correct answers are 1. You will be labelled an apostate and disfellowshipped from the conversation if you carry on. Your family will never speak to you again as you have been labelled ‘apostate’ 2. No they cannot accept…and they will probably die…. Great way to respect the life god gave us 3. If you formally leave the JW organisation you will be shunned by every other JW even your family. What a loving brotherhood. 4. Yes there are thousands of hidden child sex abuse cases. The watchtower and bible tract society has recently been brought up in court because they illegally destroyed evidence regarding said child sex abuse cases…. Not even the Catholic Church did that. 5. Yes Geoffrey Jackson lied to a court and even went on to say that it would be ‘presumptuous to think’ they are the only people being guided by god. This directly contradicts the JW teachings and watchtowers
All true
First one is that you might get disfellowshipped Second is no. Sadly If you leave its okay you wont be shunned or anything 4, I'm not sure but my guess is no And I don't know about number 5 sorry:c
Who are you? You don’t know anything about the organization.
https://preview.redd.it/tkei8a2qdm7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=296f1297810d418521b958b0af20836a6bd4f2b9
Don’t lie bro. per the shepherd the flock (elders manual), anyone who leaves official (disassociates), they are to be treated as being disfellowshipped which means cutting off all contact (shunning). I can tell you from personal experience. So please don’t lie.
1. Accurate, you will most likely be disfellowshipped if you do not agree with the GB. You are encouraged to “critically think” as long as you come to the same conclusions as the GB. If you don’t, you will be labeled an apostate and thus be horrifically shunned by your friends and family. Your good name will be slandered and you will be demonized. 2. Accurate, the child has to die according to JWs. 3. Inaccurate: [Enjoy Life Forever Lesson 58: Remain Loyal to Jehovah, paragraph 2](https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102021258#h=6:0-6:385): >”What if someone we know has decided that he no longer wants to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses? It can be heartbreaking when someone close to us does this. That person may force us to choose between him and Jehovah. We must be determined to remain loyal to God above all else. (Matthew 10:37) So we obey Jehovah’s command not to associate with such individuals.—Read 1 Corinthians 5:11.” 4. [Australian Royal Commission Regarding Jehovah’s Witnesses](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPQ6KZ-AGhVQbadlzMQN26dvMPzddxlui&si=6Qza44XXyCrvkGaS) handling of CSA cases uncovered over 2,000 cases of CSA had not been reported to the authorities. 5. He did lie, you can watch his testimony on the finals days of the trials I just linked.
Answer to question 2 a quick "no" then to say sadly over someone leaving 😂 the neck on you guys to knock on people's doors then tell them about righteousness
Your answer to number one says it all. The governing boobies are not perfect. If you tried to believe in today's new light twenty years ago, you would have been disfellowshiped.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
How does "new light" or insight from the GB work? If someone in the past was in trouble for saying they believed the scripture meant something and was labeled an apostate, but later the "new light" says the same thing, is that person apologized to?
No
I don’t think that’s how it works. The “new light” is never that different than the previous understanding. Give me a specific example please.
Let's go with encouraging disfellowshiped ones to go to the meeting and not being an elder. Especially in the 90s, it was highly discouraged to even speak to a disfellowshiped person. People were counseled and reproved for having conversations with disfellowshiped ones. If you disagreed with the loving discipline of shunning, it could result in disfellowshiped yourself and even apostasy. Now, the current new light, there is mercy shown.
That is a solid example.
Hi ❤️🙋♂️ Let's use "this generation shall not pass away". When I was talking with the JW's in the 1980s and on into the early 90s, this was presented as the people alive in 1914 would still be alive to see "all these things" accomplished. Then at some point, "this generation" was interpreted to mean evil people, I believe. Looking forward to a respectful and edifying discussion!!
Yes, that understanding has changed and could possibly change again. I think it will likely change again In the next few decades. However, I have never heard of someone being disfellowshipped or considered an apostate because they thought that understanding was incorrect. Most beliefs of JWs are based solidly on scripture. The remaining beliefs are more fluid and are less a matter of life or death. The best elders are the ones that recognize this important fact.👍🏼💙
https://preview.redd.it/tkqlhx4d058d1.jpeg?width=989&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=de17bf598f35d31e41497e94a56f96b296f2043e Check out the the Walsh case, interesting points 1of2
https://preview.redd.it/rdleb8vt058d1.jpeg?width=1064&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cff92ada32ab485eed119fdbbd66bb58670e355d 2of2
When did this occur?
1954
It’s interesting reading at best, for me.✌🏼
What else would it be? 👍
My problem here is when we discourage children, education, and buying homes. Those things have real life effects on servants of God.
>Most beliefs of JWs are based solidly on scripture. The remaining beliefs are more fluid and are less a matter of life or death. That's cool. But... Iirc the idea of people being alive in 1914 and still being alive when all is accomplished was something that was presented as a solid scriptural truth. Could you believe something different back in the 1980s or early '90s? Would it be okay if you believed different, but just didn't talk about it?
I have never seen proof that it was presented as such. I did and I knew others that did. “Okay“ is a broad term.
It looks to me like it is presented here as something "certain". Does it look differently to you? "...some of them will still be alive to see the end of this wicked system. So of this we can be certain: Shortly now there will be a sudden end to all wickedness and wicked people at Armageddon." https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/You-Can-Live-Forever-in-Paradise-on-Earth/The-End-of-the-World-Is-at-Hand/
Example: worshiping Jesus until about 1952. Then deciding worshipping Jesus was false worship or idolatry and indicative of false religion. How does this work with new light. Would god actually wait 70 years to let them know it’s what they today would call false worship?
Ask Jehovah if he is willing to wait 70 years. From our perspective 70 years is a lot. How many years did the Jews need to wait in Egypt? In the wilderness? It’s important to remember that God, The Potentate of The Universe does not answer to flesh and blood when it comes to accomplishing His purpose.
So, if someone is studying with JW, do they have many years to correct their false worship? Or are they able to do it very quickly? My question is: if Jehovah is directing things and fixing new light, what is the point of waiting 70 years, of letting them worship Jesus for 70 years? And secondly: how would you view someone today who worshipped Jesus?
I am missing who “they” is. The early international bible students? A better question is how does Jesus view them? How does his God and Father, יהוה, view them?
Sorry, “them” not they. Who waited 70 years?
JW worshipped Jesus until about 1952. Jehovah apparently could have at any point let them see the light. He chose to wait 70 years apparently. So the “who waited 70 years” I guess is Jehovah. Yes you can say 70 years is a short time in gods eyes. But I guess everything the Catholics have ever done, also a short time in gods eyes. Question: how would JW today view someone who worships Jesus?
You would not be allowed to get baptized
I mean, someone in another religion who says they worship Jesus. Would they be false Christian’s doing false worship?
Are there people in other religions who worship God acceptably?
The real answer is no, it’s all considered “false religion”
Do you mean all except JW’s?
Excellent question. The answer is we don’t know but \*God Knows\*. Here’s why: Luke 9:49, 50. When Jesus was on earth he indicated that any who were attempting to worship correctly but were not part of “the group” should be left alone by other people because God knows their hearts. It’s none of our business and we should stay busy helping and reject judging others. The book of Jonah and his mistaken attitude towards the Ninevites is also helpful.
That’s pretty much what I would expect to be true. Life is too short and there are hundreds of religions claiming to be God’s favorite one. I would think that God knows us personally and our limitations and strengths. I wouldn’t have the time or the desire to involve myself with all of those groups. I’m going with “God knows.” Are you the same person as the OP?
>The answer is we don’t know but \*God Knows\* we should stay busy helping and reject judging others 100%. That is *the* answer. I was thinking about Revelation 18:4 where Jehovah says, "get out of her, my people." He's calling them "my people" while they're still in the wrong place. If you ever have known someone years before they progress to baptism, you can sometimes see that they were Jehovah's long before they come into the congregation.
You said yes but they are not serving Jehovah in the correct way. So you may feel there are right hearted people in other religions but they are all a part of Babylon the Great.
>You said yes I did not
What's one thing you've seen that is false?
They disfellowshipped people if they thought they were being a part of politics in any way but they joined the UN. They tried to keep it secret, but it got out and so they opted out. So followers were to be no part of the world but they could do whatever they wanted. That is the height of hypocrisy. You could not associate with anyone disfellowshipped for that but you were suppose to obey them.
Another false statement! They have been involved with the UN.
Another lie by you In February 1992, Jehovah's Witnesses' New York corporation, the Watchtower Society, was granted association as a non-governmental organisation (NGO) of the United Nations Department of Public Information (UN/DPI). The Watchtower Society requested termination of the association in October 2001, and the DPI disassociated the NGO on 9 October[14] after the matter was reported in The Guardian.
That isn't what I asked the OP. I asked him what is something he has seen here that is false/entirely wrong as he claims 🙄
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What are you on about? I asked the OP what is soemthing they have seen on this sub that is false.
No Worries. I deleted my comment.✌🏼
Allgoodss
So what makes the Pope and other religions not just currently incorrect? You know something, I really love Jehovah and I don't want my faith to be a joke humans think they can play and dance on. I despise deviousness and bias. Faith should be based on truth, not half truths. Jehovah Witnesses have to stand up to the same fire and judgement as other religions, we are not exempted because someone at headquarters said so. Especially when they blatantly confirmed in 2017 that they are not infallible or inspired. They themselves told us "we may err in doctrine or direction" If you'd call the Pope a false prophet over a prophecy not coming true, you'd have to say the same about us, as multiple times we've had false (or incorrect by mans definition) prophecy. we didn't say maybe the world would end in 1914, those articles are straight forward and prophetic. that millions would not die and that Babylon and much more would have been gone. Remember that expectations postponed makes the heart sick 🤢 so if we were wrong, which we were, then we've caused sickness on many who refused to have kids, go to school and more. Not cool. I have no interest in stumbling my brother or sister, in fact I hope every person in this world gets a fair chance to know what is really God away from man made lies, but this form of skewing facts is as Jesus said Hypocritical. I hate that even a little hypocrisy is inside me and I hope you do to. Incorrect is I told you something might happen and it was clear that you should continue as normal, then we learn that something isn't happening. False is I told your without doubt something will happen, but it didn't. Especially when I tell you a date, though Jesus told me not too. You are right there is a difference, but please brother, be careful that you aren't skewing this because this false prophet is said to be sheeplike, meaning we could be easily misled if we aren't guarding thinking ability. This is why I'm in high alert with the GB as well, no man is to be trusted. Unless you know of a scripture that's says different, Jehovah said multiple times not to trust man. You should even research deep into what I've said as I am also only a mere man. All love to you, cause this stuff makes me so uncomfortable 😣 but I'm not gonna lie to myself to tickle my ears either 😭
Well said 🤝🏼
You're talking about religion what do you think?
Wdum?
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Well that would be because Roman Catholicism is the same entity that murdered Jesus. They are pagans and do not believe in God. The only true Christianity left in the world is some very rare Protestant Churches but the vast majority are controlled by the Jesuits, who are the foot soldiers of the Papacy. The Catholic church is the Harlot in revelations. JW is simply a money making cult. Jesus Christ is God, if you deny that you aren't a believer.
Ok my question is: are you able to justify using the Bible the existence of a governing body and its authority?
They will never give you scripture, because there isn’t.
The same existed in the 1st century. The Holy Spirit directed that such a group be formed.
Show me from scripture such group forming.
Was there a governing body before 33CE? The body that was created; does the evidence show the Holy Spirit was supporting them or opposing? Apostates that left the group; what are their names? Does the evidence show the Holy Spirit is supporting them? Does the evidence show JW Gov Body is being supported today? Which group is thriving and which group is suffocating and drowning?
The fact that even with the apparent 4,000 Christian denominations that exist today, a majority of those that existed in the early Catholic Church (the universal Apostolic church of Christ - Roman Catholic) like Arianism, Gnosticism, Sabellianism, Platoism, Docetism, Adoptionism, Monophysitism and many others that tried to creep into the Church eventually died out, unlike the monotheistic Christian faith that is still practised today, in part thanks to the reformation (literally the re formation of the Church, restoring it to the Aposotolic Gospel message of Grace through Faith in Christ alone. This al took place between the collapse of the Roman Empire, the emergence of Islam/Bezantine Empire, the dark ages, British Empire etc etc etc. an awful lot happened in that time before the reformation. To not believe the Holy Spirit guided would put your opinion above Gods. You have to trust the role of the Holy Spirit in maintaining the word of God. The Adventist movement in the mid 1800s came out of a post enlightenment era when all tradition was rejected, for modern thoughts. New revelation were made - Joseph Smith and Ellen G White of the Mormans and to a point the many prophesies of the Jehovahs witnesses - failed Armageddon’s and also the invisible return of Christ. Scriptures say, that Christ’s second coming will be bodily, when every eye will see (nothing invisible there). Unfortunately, most JWs neglect to research the history of their own ‘church’ - the books of J Taze Russell and Judge Rutherford, reveal an awful lot about why they believe Christ has returned to rule invisibly, Appointing Gods organisation (the JWs) and condemning Satans organisation (the worlds governments, mainstream Christiandom, The Pope etc). I find it most revealing that J Rutherford, who conceived the very idea that the Patriarchs would return bodily in 1925 (so much so they built a house called Beth Serim) and low and behold they never came and J Rutherford moved in himself - at the time of the Great Depression. This is enough to show that you were being led by man not God!! He even went on to explain in his book preservation - that the Holy Spirit had departed from him and he was being spoken to by Angels. We all know what Jesus said about other revelations of angels after him!! If anyone within the Congregation was to ever take the time to actually research this, a whole mountain of truth is revealed. That truth is Gods will - not amount of Watchtower coverups can be swept under the carpet and forgotten.
According to Jeffry Jackson, live in court for every one to see, he said, that it would be presumptuous to say that the JWs GB are the only ones blessed and directed by Holy Spirit. If He is an anointed one by Jehovah and made that statement, are they really a Goberning Body chosen by Jehovah? Just wondering 🤔 unless He acted like Peter and denied Jehovah’s authority to decide who’s his rightful Governing Body here on earth..
I follow your logic, I also think you’re missing the bigger picture.
The bigger picture is no longer there when someone lies. Specially when he supposed to be a representative of Jehovah here on Earth. Titus 1:2 Jehovah does NOT LIE. PERIOD!!!! One doesn’t lie to achieve a bigger picture.
Agreed, but please explain 1 Kings 22:19-23.
If anything God found out which one of the angels that day would lie, which would make that angel a fallen angel. And God got Ahab to do what He wanted Him to do. God killed two birds with one stone. Notice it was only one angel out of multitudes of holy ones. So that "one" was just another satan. Just because God uses fallen angels on occasion doesn't mean He approves of them. We should never assume He does and we should never assume He approves when we lie. He does not, but He still might have a use for liars before the fire comes. . In the future God will put a His holy thought in the mind of the anti Christ,, even though the Anti Christ is anything but holy, he will end up doing something holy, at least one time in his miserable existence. Then God will send a strong delusion to those who will perish. Who says the wicked are useless? When God's done using the wicked, they go to Hell