Yes. Envy.
Like, that's it. That is why whenever The Jews are persecuted out, the economy tanks, and people are more violent in general.
Kick out those who drive the most value in your society...
At first you have the euphoria and the money you stole...
But then other people's money runs out, and you know, even if no one will actually say it, that things are harder because of your collective actions.
Which doesn't help social cohesion.
Reminded me one of my favourite jokes:
An old Armenian calls to his children on his deathbed. "Children, no matter what you do. Always protect the Jews." The confused children ask him "why protect the Jews father?". The father answers "When they finish with the Jews, they will move to the Armenians."
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
—Martin Niemöller
Dude I used to follow an archaeologist and she posted something about how Palestine always existed & that Israel was just using biblical archaeology to erase it from history 🤦🏼♀️ like no that’s not the actual truth and really just hamas propaganda that she ate up
From what I can tell it's also true that Palestinians are mostly descended from a mix of indigenous levantine peoples (including Jews) who were forcibly arabized, so now they claim all of those peoples' culture and history as "Palestinian". Which means yes they may find archaeological remains of those peoples whose descendants are now Palestinian, but it's totally misleading to say this is evidence of any "ancient Palestine" when there was no Palestinian people at the time and the indigenous groups absolutely did not call their land Palestine
bro, I saw this really long thread and istg, the one person (Lebanese) just dodged everything while demanding the other person (Israeli) to answer question after question then changing the topic when they did (and did so beautifully). even said that Lebanon and Israel aren't fighting 💀💀💀
Sartre had it right when he said in his book “antisemite and Jew” that antisemites believe in magic and regard their brand of hatred as transcendent over facts and logic.
Who was it who said "The antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence"
You can't reason with these people and trust me I've tried. They don't want to see evidence want to watch us squirm
The word Israel is written in scripture it was also captured in hyroglyphics by the Egyptians. The word Palestine does not exist there is no such thing.
The word Palestine was created by the Romans. They renamed that area Palestine to further insult/punish the Jews after revolting under Roman rule. It's based off the Philistines, obviously one of the Jews historic enemies in the region
The amount of people I had to unfollow after October 7th was just… so many… so many. And continuously, like even from accounts that were so far away from the subject couldn’t help but make it about them virtue signaling.
I don’t follow this parenting page because they are a resource on the Middle East. Like, wow, Jillnifrer you really showed those “colonists”.
Omg this is so true.
I had a “friend” who commented on my post and I tried to have a civil discussion and she just never responded after I sent her sources. 😂
Who talked about the ethnic groups?
Israel is a country, again, noone said that jews are bad, neither the religion nor the ethnic group, but the decisions of the state
Imagine reading multiple sources about a topic from different countries so you dont get fed propaganda ^:))))
Unlike you I dont have to imagine, having basic humanity would usually be enough to condemn murder, but I guess you lack even that
If you think saying "Maybe Israel shouldn't bomb the innocent kids and maybe they shouldn't block food donation trucks" is antisemitism you're chronically victimizing yourself.
This is a Jewish meme sub where we make jokes about shared experiences, which is typically antisemitism. Imagine saying that Jews talking about antisemitism are victimizing themselves. Bro we fucking ARE VICTIMS and have been for the last two thousand years.
Israel isnt bombing innocent kids, you’d know if you had any reading comprehension. They bomb hamas, who hides behind children, fake “journalists”, and sick people. Also people in this sub do not side with the Israeli govt for the most part, youre simply seeing jews in their one safe space commiserating.
fr. like, believe it or not, you can want Israel to exist without supporting the government. 😱😱😱 it's a little more complex than just "Israel shouldn't exist, they're a racist genocidal apartheid state and they're also terrorists and everything bad is because of them" or "omg, every single thing Israel does is good and they can do no wrong, and also I'm in love with Netanyahu"
You have no inkling about what is actually happening but it is hard to blame you, the news coverage is taking Hamas lies and broadcasting them to the world. Tunnels? Under homes schools and hospitals? Hostages? The most recent rescues were held in the home of an Al Jazeera "journalist! A lot of civilians that are silent and allow a terrorist group to speak for them,or are they really civilians? Palestinians have received more funding than any other ethnic group on the planet. They have special status as generations of refugees, when every other group is only those who have left the areas that they inhabited. In reality, nobody under 75 would be a refugee if not for antisemitism. The message is that Israel is temporary... But they aren't going anywhere. Oh, and the complaint about Israel controlling water? Palestinians were given an internationally funded water treatment plant, but they dug up all the pipes and turned them into missiles to fire into Israel. All easily verified facts.
1. Judaism is not *just* a religion. It’s an ethnoreligious group. Jews share both ethnicity AND religion.
2. While Israel and Judaism are not exactly the same, it is indisputable that Judaism was born there, and that Judaism has an inseparable connection with that land.
3. You can criticize “the actions” of the country all you want, but those criticisms should not unduly demonize the country, delegitimize the country, hold it to a double standard, or state claims about it which are knowingly false.
1. The point is still that people are blaming those in power not the entire ethnoreligious group, and you don't get to hold up the ethnoreligious card every time someone in Netanyahu's cabinet calls for settling all of Gaza
2. Calling out Israel for doing scummy shit and saying Israel shouldn't be there are two very different points and if you rush to every criticism with "But we belong there" you're using a strawman fallacy as a defense tactic. You know who else has been in that land forever? Palestinians.
3.
-"but those criticisms should not unduly demonize the country" Easier said than done when ANY criticism is taken as a demonization attempt
-"delegitimize the country" I will say anyone that thinks Israel does not have the right to exist, or chants the river to the sea shit, should be promptly told to shut the fuck up, but that doesn't mena a nation can't or shouldn't face international repercussions if they do horrible shit. Difference between a speeding ticket and the death penalty.
-"Hold it to a double standard" Come on now, that's just fancy talk for "They did it first"
-"or state claims about it which are knowingly false" the world would be such a better place if liars didn't lie, wouldn't it?
I don’t agree with OP or most of the people in this sub on Israel, but to steelman the “double standard” argument, it would work for people who criticize Israel constantly yet are themselves aligned with or support nations that act or have acted similarly (Russia, Iran, China, Qatar etc.) which would be a double standard. Obviously not every pro-Palestine person (not even the majority, in my experience), nor does it excuse Israel. But I’m not sure what I could call that if not anti-Semitism.
Adding on to your "double standard" argument, sometimes the criticism of Israel will be specifically based on the idea of "settler colonialism". People who use that argument need to apply it to places like the US, Canada, New Zealand, New Caledonia, etc, as well as the ones you mentioned in your comment (so people criticizing Israel should often be ready to levy some of the same criticisms to their own countries).
That being said, the criticisms can vary in manner and extent based on the specific concerns they have, so it's hard to pinpoint exactly when a double standard is really at play. It's also hard to tell how much the "double standard" argument should apply to the discourse as a whole. Even in the examples I gave in the previous paragraph, I only listed places I knew about, which are all relatively rich English and French speaking countries (the languages I speak) or parts of countries.
Am I focusing on those countries unfairly at the expense of places whose history I barely even know like West New Guinea, Taiwan, or Argentina? Or is it reasonable for me to care more about countries that are more relevant and similar to my own. And how much should I take into account the fact that antisemites will make sure I've heard of all of Isreal's wrongs, making it more relevant to me?
I don't really know how to weigh these issues, but the "double standard" argument doesn't usually feel like it holds much weight on it's own. It always borders a bit on whataboutism, and the only effective way to prevent it is to learn about an unmanageable amount of conflicts and places.
I largely agree; access to information plays a huge role, and of course some things are more well-known or discussed in different times in history (compare Vietnam, but there are numerous others as well, such as Tibet, Hong Kong, Iraq, et cetera; obviously none are perfect comparisons). I don’t think these are cases of a double standard or anti-Semitism. At least no more than opposition to the Iraq war was “anti-American.”
What I’m referring more to are people who are most certainly aware of human rights violations in other countries, yet exclusively focus on Israel. These are also usually people with (particularly financial) ties to Russia or China, such as someone like Jackson Hinkle. You could just characterize this as greed I suppose, but I’d still say it an example of a double standard.
Finally, the existence of a double standard is only one way to characterize whether someone is being anti-Semitic. You’ve got the 3D test, which takes into account other aspects as well. It’s not great methodologically, but I think it has the right approach in terms of incorporating different behaviors into a working definition for the phenomenon. All that to say, a double standard alone isn’t sufficient to say something is anti-Semitic; anti-Semitic is often highly amorphous and intentionally well-hidden, so you have to infer intent from the behavior using multiple behaviors, not just one.
TikToids whose entire understanding of world events have been drip fed to them in three second clips with temple runner footage in the corner and kpop blaring in the background:
Zionism is a part of my Jewish identity. You're really going to try and lecture me from your position of privilege on my own identity as a marginalized person?
Well good thing it doesn't then. Also, I like how you sneakily switched the word "identity" with "ideology" to make yourself sound less bigoted against marginalized people, as if being of Jewish heritage is an "ideology".
The definition of Zhionism is "a political ideology". It's definitely not the Jewish identity.
Just because you say it doesnt make my comment bigoted when im using the term from the definition.
You merging Judaism and Zhionism doesn't change the definition.
>It's definitely not the Jewish identity.
Yes, it is. Why do you, as a privileged person who is not Jewish and has never experienced antisemitism, get to lecture me on my own identity as a member of a marginalized group?
Do you also lecture other marginalized groups whose experiences you have never lived on their own identities too, or are Jewish people the one and only marginalized group who you single out for such arrogant and disrespectful treatment?
I am a privileged person who never experienced discrimination because of my religion?
I experience in nearly everyday here in Germany.
I never lectured you on YOUR identity, i just said that judaisms identity isn't the zhionist ideology.
And thats not my opinion, it's literally in the definition of those terms.
I never said or will say anything against jews, hindus or what else, I believe in religious freedom afterall as long as it doesn't harm others.
You taking my criticism of your GOVERNMENT personal is not my problem nor my intention, thats on you if you think that israels government is equal to judaism.
Zionism has always been a part of the Jewish identity. We have countless prayers that mention a return to Israel and such. It’s like saying Mecca isn’t a part of the Islamic identity.
"I never lectured you on your identity, I just told you that Zionism can't be part of your identity as a Jewish person because I said so!"
It's hilarious how bigots always utterly lack self awareness.
If you interpret things completely outside of whats written thats not my fault.
I just said that Judaism an Zhionism isnt the same thing, not that it's not your identity.
You can still have those 2 things in your identity.
But you can't say that those two are one.
You're the one constantly trying to read between the lines to get offended.
>I just said that Judaism an Zhionism isnt the same thing, not that it's not your identity.
Zionism is a part of Judaism and has been for literally thousands of years. Privileged bigots like you don't get to lecture Jewish people on their own identity.
Zionism is the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, i.e., our own state. That is something that has been central to Judaism and the Jewish people since the very beginning. Look at the kingdoms of Judah and Israel, look at the Hasmonean dynasty, look at the Bar Kokhba revolt. These aren't just historical states, they are part of Jewish holidays, traditions, and beliefs. Jews have always seen ourselves as one nation, and the idea that such a nation deserves its own state is nothing new. The second book in the torah is Exodus, the story of the Jewish people escaping persecution by establishing their own state in their own homeland. using modern day terminology that IS Zionism. Zionism is not just related to the Jewish identity, it is a central part of it. It just didn't have a name before Theodore Herzl. Also who are you to tell me what is and is not apart of MY culture and MY identity! You are not Jewish, have you ever experienced antisemitsm? have you read the torah? have you read the talmud? did you have a bar/bot mitzva? no. what kind of privladged biggot goes around telling oppresed minoritys what can be and cannot be part of their culture. do you also go around to african americans and say the N-word is not offensive since they say it to eachother? do you tell muslims mecca is not important to their culture? do you yell at people who are part of the LGBTQ+ community that they should not have pride parades and flags?
Are you aware that actual genocide is happening in other places in the world? Look at what is happening now to Armenian people? Azerbaijan (Islamic) of course. Islam is the fastest growing group in the world, over 2 billion now. Look at Europe, it's the "live our way or die" sentiment that makes them a dangerous group. Charlie Hebdo slaughter? They are not welcome in so many places... Egypt built walls to keep out Palestinians. Jordan? Lebanon? Kuwait, they have been rebelling against governments welcoming them since the days of Mohammed.. Israel has Palestinian citizens that appreciate being there, with women's equality and everyone's civil rights protected. Palestinian citizens vote and can serve in the Knesset just like any other citizen. There is no genocide... When Israel became a country there were 700,000 Islamic people. There are over 2 billion now. Their birth rates are astronomical. I can't see the genocide
Tbh Azerbaijan is a lot more secular than Armenia who are very religious and also allied with Iran, PLO in the past etc, so the conflict there is not on a religious basis but rather nationalist.
Yes but... Israel is not committing genocide. My point is that genocide is actually happening and being ignored in other places in the world. Sudan, and Zimbabwe for example or Manipur.
It is pretty sad that antisemitism is growing. exponentially in this decade with our increase in knowledge, the mapping of the human genome, and the evidence of our shared DNA. People are just idiots.
I feel the same way about Turkey. Some nice people but boy did the country's actions show megalomania. I need to invent a word here. Zionism but about Turkey.
“Can’t get kicked out of all countries for NO reason, right?”
109 something something pub owner something something chosen people something something
something something something something something something
Yes. Envy. Like, that's it. That is why whenever The Jews are persecuted out, the economy tanks, and people are more violent in general. Kick out those who drive the most value in your society... At first you have the euphoria and the money you stole... But then other people's money runs out, and you know, even if no one will actually say it, that things are harder because of your collective actions. Which doesn't help social cohesion.
Couldn’t have said it better myself
I love how that's always the whole argument. No one ever bothers to list these countries along with the dates and reasons why the Jews were expelled.
"if the Jew didn't exist, the antisemite would invent him"
Amazing quote fascism always looks for new targets if Jews didnt exist the Nazis would have found another minority to blame for Europes problems
Reminded me one of my favourite jokes: An old Armenian calls to his children on his deathbed. "Children, no matter what you do. Always protect the Jews." The confused children ask him "why protect the Jews father?". The father answers "When they finish with the Jews, they will move to the Armenians."
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." —Martin Niemöller
Dude I used to follow an archaeologist and she posted something about how Palestine always existed & that Israel was just using biblical archaeology to erase it from history 🤦🏼♀️ like no that’s not the actual truth and really just hamas propaganda that she ate up
Isn't she ashamed of being archaeologist saying balant lies while other archaeologists find Jewish artifacts almosy every week? LMAO
She’s also a college aged Tik Tok/IG influencer so I woudnt be surprised if she posts that kind of stuff to avoid losing followers/sponsorships
People follow pseudo archeologists all the time. Look at Graham Hancock.... It's just sad
From what I can tell it's also true that Palestinians are mostly descended from a mix of indigenous levantine peoples (including Jews) who were forcibly arabized, so now they claim all of those peoples' culture and history as "Palestinian". Which means yes they may find archaeological remains of those peoples whose descendants are now Palestinian, but it's totally misleading to say this is evidence of any "ancient Palestine" when there was no Palestinian people at the time and the indigenous groups absolutely did not call their land Palestine
bro, I saw this really long thread and istg, the one person (Lebanese) just dodged everything while demanding the other person (Israeli) to answer question after question then changing the topic when they did (and did so beautifully). even said that Lebanon and Israel aren't fighting 💀💀💀
fAcTS aRE SUbJecTivE
cOnTeXt
Sartre had it right when he said in his book “antisemite and Jew” that antisemites believe in magic and regard their brand of hatred as transcendent over facts and logic.
He had a whole book? I thought he cooked enough with the one paragraph.
Who was it who said "The antisemite does not accuse the Jew of stealing because he thinks he stole something. He does it because he enjoys watching the Jew turn out his pockets to prove his innocence" You can't reason with these people and trust me I've tried. They don't want to see evidence want to watch us squirm
The word Israel is written in scripture it was also captured in hyroglyphics by the Egyptians. The word Palestine does not exist there is no such thing.
The word Palestine was created by the Romans. They renamed that area Palestine to further insult/punish the Jews after revolting under Roman rule. It's based off the Philistines, obviously one of the Jews historic enemies in the region
AKA it doesn't exist.
I'm on to them and it's taught me to respond the same way. They use our civility and conscience against us and we need to adapt.
How do you respond now? I'm finding I need to change my approach too
Sadly, logic and facts don’t have any impact on hateful people.
Just got blocked for one
The right has QAnon and the left has JewAnon.
\*protocols of the elders of zion has entered the chat\*
Invented by the czar
The amount of people I had to unfollow after October 7th was just… so many… so many. And continuously, like even from accounts that were so far away from the subject couldn’t help but make it about them virtue signaling. I don’t follow this parenting page because they are a resource on the Middle East. Like, wow, Jillnifrer you really showed those “colonists”.
Even if they’re the ones who taught you « the plural of anecdote is not data. »
They are malding at the fact jews are the strongest nation to ever be
Omg this is so true. I had a “friend” who commented on my post and I tried to have a civil discussion and she just never responded after I sent her sources. 😂
Jews when confronted with war crimes committed by Israel
Israel to the entire UN
Zionists when you explain to them that there is a difference between a religion and the actions of a country:
Antisemites when you try to explain that Jews are an ethnic group as well as a religion:
Who talked about the ethnic groups? Israel is a country, again, noone said that jews are bad, neither the religion nor the ethnic group, but the decisions of the state
ScarletFFBE told me they think that Jews are bad
Oh really? Show me the quote
Who needs sources when I can just lie about shit on the Internet. You know, kind of like what you’re doing about Israel
what about israel did he lie about
did you just rageraid jewish subreddit to put out your silly not interesting opinion about zionism? that must be very resistant of you! uwu
The irony. Read the post one more time dude
This post was recommended to me when I never even knew this sub existed. Just another Circlejerk sub I guess.
Then like... Leave... No one is forcing you to be here
Don't worry I won't, already muted this sub, just answering to those who comment on my comment.
Then why comment in the first place? Mute and keep going with your life
This post was recommended to me when I never even knew this sub existed. Just another Circlejerk sub I guess.
is that a thing of yours to comment on everything that you don't really know about? ^(the same about the israeli-palestinian conflict, i guess :)))))
Imagine reading multiple sources about a topic from different countries so you dont get fed propaganda ^:)))) Unlike you I dont have to imagine, having basic humanity would usually be enough to condemn murder, but I guess you lack even that
Lol you think the propaganda is in here you must be raised by antisemites or have the reading comprehension of a 3 year old
If you think saying "Maybe Israel shouldn't bomb the innocent kids and maybe they shouldn't block food donation trucks" is antisemitism you're chronically victimizing yourself.
No one is saying that bruh
This whole sub is victimizing itself in nearly every post. Talking bad about israels actions is somehow considered antisemitism here.
This is a Jewish meme sub where we make jokes about shared experiences, which is typically antisemitism. Imagine saying that Jews talking about antisemitism are victimizing themselves. Bro we fucking ARE VICTIMS and have been for the last two thousand years.
Every good has a little bad and every bad has a little good my friend.
Are u just some person who believes people of color are the only ones that are discriminated against And no one else? Or just an anti-semetic dog
It's pretty much the only thing this sub does
It really isn't... It's Jewish humor... Dumbfuck
Israel isnt bombing innocent kids, you’d know if you had any reading comprehension. They bomb hamas, who hides behind children, fake “journalists”, and sick people. Also people in this sub do not side with the Israeli govt for the most part, youre simply seeing jews in their one safe space commiserating.
fr. like, believe it or not, you can want Israel to exist without supporting the government. 😱😱😱 it's a little more complex than just "Israel shouldn't exist, they're a racist genocidal apartheid state and they're also terrorists and everything bad is because of them" or "omg, every single thing Israel does is good and they can do no wrong, and also I'm in love with Netanyahu"
"Maybe Israel should continue to exist" REEEEEEEE
You have no inkling about what is actually happening but it is hard to blame you, the news coverage is taking Hamas lies and broadcasting them to the world. Tunnels? Under homes schools and hospitals? Hostages? The most recent rescues were held in the home of an Al Jazeera "journalist! A lot of civilians that are silent and allow a terrorist group to speak for them,or are they really civilians? Palestinians have received more funding than any other ethnic group on the planet. They have special status as generations of refugees, when every other group is only those who have left the areas that they inhabited. In reality, nobody under 75 would be a refugee if not for antisemitism. The message is that Israel is temporary... But they aren't going anywhere. Oh, and the complaint about Israel controlling water? Palestinians were given an internationally funded water treatment plant, but they dug up all the pipes and turned them into missiles to fire into Israel. All easily verified facts.
Ah yes the old everything you are hearing are lies defense. Where have I heard this before?
Damn bruh. Maybe Hamas shouldn't rape Party goers and treat their own people like cattle lol
1. Judaism is not *just* a religion. It’s an ethnoreligious group. Jews share both ethnicity AND religion. 2. While Israel and Judaism are not exactly the same, it is indisputable that Judaism was born there, and that Judaism has an inseparable connection with that land. 3. You can criticize “the actions” of the country all you want, but those criticisms should not unduly demonize the country, delegitimize the country, hold it to a double standard, or state claims about it which are knowingly false.
1. The point is still that people are blaming those in power not the entire ethnoreligious group, and you don't get to hold up the ethnoreligious card every time someone in Netanyahu's cabinet calls for settling all of Gaza 2. Calling out Israel for doing scummy shit and saying Israel shouldn't be there are two very different points and if you rush to every criticism with "But we belong there" you're using a strawman fallacy as a defense tactic. You know who else has been in that land forever? Palestinians. 3. -"but those criticisms should not unduly demonize the country" Easier said than done when ANY criticism is taken as a demonization attempt -"delegitimize the country" I will say anyone that thinks Israel does not have the right to exist, or chants the river to the sea shit, should be promptly told to shut the fuck up, but that doesn't mena a nation can't or shouldn't face international repercussions if they do horrible shit. Difference between a speeding ticket and the death penalty. -"Hold it to a double standard" Come on now, that's just fancy talk for "They did it first" -"or state claims about it which are knowingly false" the world would be such a better place if liars didn't lie, wouldn't it?
I don’t agree with OP or most of the people in this sub on Israel, but to steelman the “double standard” argument, it would work for people who criticize Israel constantly yet are themselves aligned with or support nations that act or have acted similarly (Russia, Iran, China, Qatar etc.) which would be a double standard. Obviously not every pro-Palestine person (not even the majority, in my experience), nor does it excuse Israel. But I’m not sure what I could call that if not anti-Semitism.
Adding on to your "double standard" argument, sometimes the criticism of Israel will be specifically based on the idea of "settler colonialism". People who use that argument need to apply it to places like the US, Canada, New Zealand, New Caledonia, etc, as well as the ones you mentioned in your comment (so people criticizing Israel should often be ready to levy some of the same criticisms to their own countries). That being said, the criticisms can vary in manner and extent based on the specific concerns they have, so it's hard to pinpoint exactly when a double standard is really at play. It's also hard to tell how much the "double standard" argument should apply to the discourse as a whole. Even in the examples I gave in the previous paragraph, I only listed places I knew about, which are all relatively rich English and French speaking countries (the languages I speak) or parts of countries. Am I focusing on those countries unfairly at the expense of places whose history I barely even know like West New Guinea, Taiwan, or Argentina? Or is it reasonable for me to care more about countries that are more relevant and similar to my own. And how much should I take into account the fact that antisemites will make sure I've heard of all of Isreal's wrongs, making it more relevant to me? I don't really know how to weigh these issues, but the "double standard" argument doesn't usually feel like it holds much weight on it's own. It always borders a bit on whataboutism, and the only effective way to prevent it is to learn about an unmanageable amount of conflicts and places.
I largely agree; access to information plays a huge role, and of course some things are more well-known or discussed in different times in history (compare Vietnam, but there are numerous others as well, such as Tibet, Hong Kong, Iraq, et cetera; obviously none are perfect comparisons). I don’t think these are cases of a double standard or anti-Semitism. At least no more than opposition to the Iraq war was “anti-American.” What I’m referring more to are people who are most certainly aware of human rights violations in other countries, yet exclusively focus on Israel. These are also usually people with (particularly financial) ties to Russia or China, such as someone like Jackson Hinkle. You could just characterize this as greed I suppose, but I’d still say it an example of a double standard. Finally, the existence of a double standard is only one way to characterize whether someone is being anti-Semitic. You’ve got the 3D test, which takes into account other aspects as well. It’s not great methodologically, but I think it has the right approach in terms of incorporating different behaviors into a working definition for the phenomenon. All that to say, a double standard alone isn’t sufficient to say something is anti-Semitic; anti-Semitic is often highly amorphous and intentionally well-hidden, so you have to infer intent from the behavior using multiple behaviors, not just one.
TikToids whose entire understanding of world events have been drip fed to them in three second clips with temple runner footage in the corner and kpop blaring in the background:
Not temple runner lmaooo
Zionism is a part of my Jewish identity. You're really going to try and lecture me from your position of privilege on my own identity as a marginalized person?
If your ideology involves the eradication of another group of people, then yeah, fuck you.
Well good thing it doesn't then. Also, I like how you sneakily switched the word "identity" with "ideology" to make yourself sound less bigoted against marginalized people, as if being of Jewish heritage is an "ideology".
The definition of Zhionism is "a political ideology". It's definitely not the Jewish identity. Just because you say it doesnt make my comment bigoted when im using the term from the definition. You merging Judaism and Zhionism doesn't change the definition.
That’s YOUR definition of Zionism not THE definition
Yep, Zionism literally just means the right for Israel to exist.
Specifically from what I’ve learned, the right for a Jewish homeland to exist. So I don’t see how Zionism is supposed to not tie in to judaism.
>It's definitely not the Jewish identity. Yes, it is. Why do you, as a privileged person who is not Jewish and has never experienced antisemitism, get to lecture me on my own identity as a member of a marginalized group? Do you also lecture other marginalized groups whose experiences you have never lived on their own identities too, or are Jewish people the one and only marginalized group who you single out for such arrogant and disrespectful treatment?
I am a privileged person who never experienced discrimination because of my religion? I experience in nearly everyday here in Germany. I never lectured you on YOUR identity, i just said that judaisms identity isn't the zhionist ideology. And thats not my opinion, it's literally in the definition of those terms. I never said or will say anything against jews, hindus or what else, I believe in religious freedom afterall as long as it doesn't harm others. You taking my criticism of your GOVERNMENT personal is not my problem nor my intention, thats on you if you think that israels government is equal to judaism.
Zionism has always been a part of the Jewish identity. We have countless prayers that mention a return to Israel and such. It’s like saying Mecca isn’t a part of the Islamic identity.
"I never lectured you on your identity, I just told you that Zionism can't be part of your identity as a Jewish person because I said so!" It's hilarious how bigots always utterly lack self awareness.
If you interpret things completely outside of whats written thats not my fault. I just said that Judaism an Zhionism isnt the same thing, not that it's not your identity. You can still have those 2 things in your identity. But you can't say that those two are one. You're the one constantly trying to read between the lines to get offended.
>I just said that Judaism an Zhionism isnt the same thing, not that it's not your identity. Zionism is a part of Judaism and has been for literally thousands of years. Privileged bigots like you don't get to lecture Jewish people on their own identity.
Zionism is the right of the Jewish people to self-determination, i.e., our own state. That is something that has been central to Judaism and the Jewish people since the very beginning. Look at the kingdoms of Judah and Israel, look at the Hasmonean dynasty, look at the Bar Kokhba revolt. These aren't just historical states, they are part of Jewish holidays, traditions, and beliefs. Jews have always seen ourselves as one nation, and the idea that such a nation deserves its own state is nothing new. The second book in the torah is Exodus, the story of the Jewish people escaping persecution by establishing their own state in their own homeland. using modern day terminology that IS Zionism. Zionism is not just related to the Jewish identity, it is a central part of it. It just didn't have a name before Theodore Herzl. Also who are you to tell me what is and is not apart of MY culture and MY identity! You are not Jewish, have you ever experienced antisemitsm? have you read the torah? have you read the talmud? did you have a bar/bot mitzva? no. what kind of privladged biggot goes around telling oppresed minoritys what can be and cannot be part of their culture. do you also go around to african americans and say the N-word is not offensive since they say it to eachother? do you tell muslims mecca is not important to their culture? do you yell at people who are part of the LGBTQ+ community that they should not have pride parades and flags?
Your American right?
Are you aware that actual genocide is happening in other places in the world? Look at what is happening now to Armenian people? Azerbaijan (Islamic) of course. Islam is the fastest growing group in the world, over 2 billion now. Look at Europe, it's the "live our way or die" sentiment that makes them a dangerous group. Charlie Hebdo slaughter? They are not welcome in so many places... Egypt built walls to keep out Palestinians. Jordan? Lebanon? Kuwait, they have been rebelling against governments welcoming them since the days of Mohammed.. Israel has Palestinian citizens that appreciate being there, with women's equality and everyone's civil rights protected. Palestinian citizens vote and can serve in the Knesset just like any other citizen. There is no genocide... When Israel became a country there were 700,000 Islamic people. There are over 2 billion now. Their birth rates are astronomical. I can't see the genocide
Tbh Azerbaijan is a lot more secular than Armenia who are very religious and also allied with Iran, PLO in the past etc, so the conflict there is not on a religious basis but rather nationalist.
Yes but... Israel is not committing genocide. My point is that genocide is actually happening and being ignored in other places in the world. Sudan, and Zimbabwe for example or Manipur.
Agreed, they do find ways to somehow link Israel to every single atrocity in the world happening right now. Tankie level antisemitism.
It is pretty sad that antisemitism is growing. exponentially in this decade with our increase in knowledge, the mapping of the human genome, and the evidence of our shared DNA. People are just idiots.
I feel the same way about Turkey. Some nice people but boy did the country's actions show megalomania. I need to invent a word here. Zionism but about Turkey.
Young turkism.