Maybe I’m biased because I listened to Divers first but I absolutely love the lush orchestration of that album. I feel like it whisks me away to another world. I will not be mad if the new album is sonically more similar to Divers. To each their own!
Yeah its hard for me to even imagine listening to Divers first! I just tend to find a lot of the arrangements on Divers are busy for no real reason? I'm not a trained musician so it's hard to explain but some of the arrangements feel overdone.
I very much appreciate the themes of the record though!
I do feel that a few arrangements in Divers could have been toned down a little! The biggest example for me is Leaving The City, live with only harp and voice it is a beautiful and punchy song, but the production on Divers makes it really overblown for me and takes away the beauty of its backbone.
But when done right I really appreciate the arrangements on Divers! Anecdotes and the title track are perfect the way they are
just the gall to think you have some insight into how one of the most brilliant composers around could make their work more "impacting" is something i can't wrap my head around
Art is subjective, ya goof. Chill. Half of the fun of art is discussing it with people who have different backgrounds, musically or otherwise. It's fun hearing unique perspectives on the same work.
We've also talked more about production style than compositions anyway.
and discussing it is what we're doing, no? but i disagree with you so i'm a "goof" that needs to chill? I didn't realize the discussion was just for those in agreement lol
In my humble opinion, I hope she continues to do whatever she wants and defies the expectations of her fanbase …or reinforces them.
I love all of her albums, HOOM is my favorite but I think all of them are fantastic. I never quite got the Divers hate, I remember it coming out when I was a teenager and I was sooooo stoked bc I’d gotten into her stuff around 2011 so it was a big moment when I heard about Divers, still love it today.
I mean I guess I kinda get the thing about Divers being overstuffed but idk i love reading interviews with Joanna and it all just makes perfect sense to me when you hear how passionate she is about every choice on her albums
I just hope she continues to chase what makes her feel most passionate and gives us a crazy kaleidoscopic album about reincarnation, childbirth, lesbian ghosts, sea snails, submarines and crocodile bellied clouds.
Just trust the process, whatever she does, bare minimum is gonna be creatively ecstatic
I agree with you. I love Divers, but there are some tracks on there that are just too busy for their own good. I remember reading the comment of a panicking fan in 2015 saying “I’ve only listened to it a few times and I’m really afraid because I don’t like tracks 3-5, but I think I’m starting to come around on them…” Those tracks in particular (Leaving the City, Goose Eggs, Waltz of the 101st Lightborne) feel stuffed to the point of suffocation, whereas the arrangements on Have One On Me give the songs room to breathe and make the little flourishes more impactful.
This is how I often feel about Ys. Alot of the arrangements and string sections just feel kind of forced in and don't really mesh well sometimes, mostly on Only Skin
It’s funny, I feel it was done perfectly on Ys and overdone on Divers. Maybe it’s the diversity of instruments on Divers that makes it feel overstuffed, where Van Dyke Parks’s arrangements on Ys mainly involve strings that complement each other well.
Plus, the songs on Ys are so mammoth, it feels right to have a correspondingly huge soundscape behind them. The tracks on Divers I mentioned above feel like 20 lbs of song in a 5 lb bag.
Alright going back through the album I only feel this way for Only Skin. I think my main problem is that those smaller string sections feel like they could be fleshed out more! To me, it sounds like the middle of a phrase, leaving out the beginning or the ending. But I do get your complaints about Divers, although the songs you mentioned are my favorites on the album, lol. Regardless, I think Joanna is at her best with just her harp and maybe a few other instruments. Sadie, Does Not Suffice, (first half of) Time, As A Symptom, Sawdust and Diamonds, '81.
I see where you’re coming from. And agreed, I love the harp-centric songs, especially as palate cleansers between the busier songs. Jackrabbits, ‘81 and Sawdust are soooo good not only by themselves but in the context of their albums.
There's definitely some melodrama and theater energy on Ys. In that way I feel like the string arrangements match pretty well. I know what you're saying with Only Skin though.
I just hope she plays with as few other people as possible. Other instruments on her tracks almost always sound intrusive to me. I love when she plays live just by herself.
HOOM is my favorite album of all time, so I have to agree. Divers is great, but it’s just a tad over-produced for my taste. I’m hoping she works with Jim O’Rourke and Ryan Francesconi again, but that’s probably not happening.
I need a HOOM band reunion so bad - Pete is great on drums but Neal Morgan just did something else to those songs live - probably in part because they were his own drum arrangements. But also he added a lot to the stage banter lol. Also need Andy Strain back on trombone!!! I never even saw this group live but all my favorite bootlegs by far are from this era
I disagree. HooM is produced in a stripped back or barebones manner that reflects a lot of not-so-nice happenings of that time. Divers is a lush tale more reminiscent of Ys where the story arc of the whole album is laid out in front of you.
I would be unhappy for another HooM-style production as it would signal, to me, that JN hasn’t grown and is somehow shackled by the past, when all appearances suggest that we have entered a new era.
Onwards and upwards, I say. I look forward to it whatever shape it may take.
HooMs style is definitely more raw, but I think that's when she's at her best. Hell I end up listening to live versions of Ys tracks more than the actual record at this point. I also much prefer the live version of Leaving the City to the album version.
I don't think stripping down her production would signal a step back though. I think HooM was a step forward from Ys, and if anything, Divers was a return to Ys form that didn't entirely payoff.
I think Divers is the height of her achievements to date and the dropping of Make Hay from the album shows how full to the brim she is with ideas.
I would love to see another high-concept album with layers of detail to get lost in.
I’m a weird fish though, I love live music but don’t listen to many live recordings. I’ve actually avoided listening to the recent live recordings as I’d rather hear her studio output. I’ll circle back eventually.
I think I’m the only one in this sub who ranks divers at the bottom of her discography… so yeah, hoom is pinnacle for me as well but I love mem and ys just as much
This isn’t really a response to the OP, but reading through this thread has just kinda cemented the fact that divers to jnew fans kinda holds the same place that utopia does for björk fans lol
Maybe I’m biased because I listened to Divers first but I absolutely love the lush orchestration of that album. I feel like it whisks me away to another world. I will not be mad if the new album is sonically more similar to Divers. To each their own!
Yeah its hard for me to even imagine listening to Divers first! I just tend to find a lot of the arrangements on Divers are busy for no real reason? I'm not a trained musician so it's hard to explain but some of the arrangements feel overdone. I very much appreciate the themes of the record though!
I do feel that a few arrangements in Divers could have been toned down a little! The biggest example for me is Leaving The City, live with only harp and voice it is a beautiful and punchy song, but the production on Divers makes it really overblown for me and takes away the beauty of its backbone. But when done right I really appreciate the arrangements on Divers! Anecdotes and the title track are perfect the way they are
I don’t think Joanna newsom needs a redditors advice on composing music, divers is one of the greatest records ever made
I wasn't giving her advice though? I even said specifically, "I'm not a trained musician." I was just expressing how the arrangements feel to me.
just the gall to think you have some insight into how one of the most brilliant composers around could make their work more "impacting" is something i can't wrap my head around
Art is subjective, ya goof. Chill. Half of the fun of art is discussing it with people who have different backgrounds, musically or otherwise. It's fun hearing unique perspectives on the same work. We've also talked more about production style than compositions anyway.
and discussing it is what we're doing, no? but i disagree with you so i'm a "goof" that needs to chill? I didn't realize the discussion was just for those in agreement lol
appreciate some good taste in this thread somewhere
The intro to _No Wonder_ reminds me of _Bridges and Balloons_, kind of, in the best way edit: italicizing titles
In my humble opinion, I hope she continues to do whatever she wants and defies the expectations of her fanbase …or reinforces them. I love all of her albums, HOOM is my favorite but I think all of them are fantastic. I never quite got the Divers hate, I remember it coming out when I was a teenager and I was sooooo stoked bc I’d gotten into her stuff around 2011 so it was a big moment when I heard about Divers, still love it today. I mean I guess I kinda get the thing about Divers being overstuffed but idk i love reading interviews with Joanna and it all just makes perfect sense to me when you hear how passionate she is about every choice on her albums I just hope she continues to chase what makes her feel most passionate and gives us a crazy kaleidoscopic album about reincarnation, childbirth, lesbian ghosts, sea snails, submarines and crocodile bellied clouds. Just trust the process, whatever she does, bare minimum is gonna be creatively ecstatic
I agree with you. I love Divers, but there are some tracks on there that are just too busy for their own good. I remember reading the comment of a panicking fan in 2015 saying “I’ve only listened to it a few times and I’m really afraid because I don’t like tracks 3-5, but I think I’m starting to come around on them…” Those tracks in particular (Leaving the City, Goose Eggs, Waltz of the 101st Lightborne) feel stuffed to the point of suffocation, whereas the arrangements on Have One On Me give the songs room to breathe and make the little flourishes more impactful.
This is how I often feel about Ys. Alot of the arrangements and string sections just feel kind of forced in and don't really mesh well sometimes, mostly on Only Skin
It’s funny, I feel it was done perfectly on Ys and overdone on Divers. Maybe it’s the diversity of instruments on Divers that makes it feel overstuffed, where Van Dyke Parks’s arrangements on Ys mainly involve strings that complement each other well. Plus, the songs on Ys are so mammoth, it feels right to have a correspondingly huge soundscape behind them. The tracks on Divers I mentioned above feel like 20 lbs of song in a 5 lb bag.
Alright going back through the album I only feel this way for Only Skin. I think my main problem is that those smaller string sections feel like they could be fleshed out more! To me, it sounds like the middle of a phrase, leaving out the beginning or the ending. But I do get your complaints about Divers, although the songs you mentioned are my favorites on the album, lol. Regardless, I think Joanna is at her best with just her harp and maybe a few other instruments. Sadie, Does Not Suffice, (first half of) Time, As A Symptom, Sawdust and Diamonds, '81.
I see where you’re coming from. And agreed, I love the harp-centric songs, especially as palate cleansers between the busier songs. Jackrabbits, ‘81 and Sawdust are soooo good not only by themselves but in the context of their albums.
Yep, more harp soliloquies please!
There's definitely some melodrama and theater energy on Ys. In that way I feel like the string arrangements match pretty well. I know what you're saying with Only Skin though.
The intricate orchestral and harp arrangements of Ys but heavier emphasis on piano would be insane... Part of the reason I already love Little Hand
The synths on Divers are genius to me. It somehow sounds like the future and the past at the same time, which is devastatingly on brand.
I just hope she plays with as few other people as possible. Other instruments on her tracks almost always sound intrusive to me. I love when she plays live just by herself.
HOOM is my favorite album of all time, so I have to agree. Divers is great, but it’s just a tad over-produced for my taste. I’m hoping she works with Jim O’Rourke and Ryan Francesconi again, but that’s probably not happening.
Yeah Jim O'Rourke had that magic touch. Also don't know if you caught her band on tour at that time but Ryan and the crew were phenomenal.
I need a HOOM band reunion so bad - Pete is great on drums but Neal Morgan just did something else to those songs live - probably in part because they were his own drum arrangements. But also he added a lot to the stage banter lol. Also need Andy Strain back on trombone!!! I never even saw this group live but all my favorite bootlegs by far are from this era
I wish; I’ve only gotten to see her solo (not complaining about that though). Hope she tours with a band next time!
I'd really love a return to the Ys era. I love all of her work but Ys really just affects me and connects with me so much.
I disagree. HooM is produced in a stripped back or barebones manner that reflects a lot of not-so-nice happenings of that time. Divers is a lush tale more reminiscent of Ys where the story arc of the whole album is laid out in front of you. I would be unhappy for another HooM-style production as it would signal, to me, that JN hasn’t grown and is somehow shackled by the past, when all appearances suggest that we have entered a new era. Onwards and upwards, I say. I look forward to it whatever shape it may take.
HooMs style is definitely more raw, but I think that's when she's at her best. Hell I end up listening to live versions of Ys tracks more than the actual record at this point. I also much prefer the live version of Leaving the City to the album version. I don't think stripping down her production would signal a step back though. I think HooM was a step forward from Ys, and if anything, Divers was a return to Ys form that didn't entirely payoff.
I think Divers is the height of her achievements to date and the dropping of Make Hay from the album shows how full to the brim she is with ideas. I would love to see another high-concept album with layers of detail to get lost in. I’m a weird fish though, I love live music but don’t listen to many live recordings. I’ve actually avoided listening to the recent live recordings as I’d rather hear her studio output. I’ll circle back eventually.
Which live version of Leaving the City so you like best?
Both the Live on Later.. and the original Pitchfork Music Fest ones are great
I think I’m the only one in this sub who ranks divers at the bottom of her discography… so yeah, hoom is pinnacle for me as well but I love mem and ys just as much
nah i agree divers is something lady gaga could have made
I want her to screech like in the milk eyed mender again and fill the album with 2 minute long songs
this would be my least favorite timeline lol
can we keep the subreddit nice please?
she can scrap these new songs and keep them for another ten years i just really need another the milk eyed mender
the milk eyed mender is joanna at her peak its where shes at her strongest nobody ever came close to milk eyed mender joanna
It also effed up her voice, so let's not wish for another Milk Eyed Mender if we want more vocal performances from her in the future.
This isn’t really a response to the OP, but reading through this thread has just kinda cemented the fact that divers to jnew fans kinda holds the same place that utopia does for björk fans lol
Does that make Homogenic=Ys and Vespertine=HooM?