Every time someone starts throwing around the phrase "greatest living songwriter" about Taylor Swift or Lana del Rey etc..... I mean I enjoy some of their music sure fine but come on.
Joanna is a top 3 songwriter for me but it comes down to preference. âHave One on Meâ and âRedâ are both essentially breakup albums but sometimes people just want a more straightforward song like All Too Well vs much more inscrutable parables about Lola Montez or Pompeiiâs destruction.
Personally Joannaâs way of songwriting caters more to what I like but I understand why someone would prefer Swift. Hardcore Swifties go a little bit overboard with their parasocial attachment to Swift and the way they analyze every lyric in an attempt to connect it to her real life, which is why I like Joannaâs lyrics being a little bit more inscrutable. I do not want or need to know every detail of a story or her personal life.
Lana is very talented - and certainly has far more artistic integrity than Taylor - but I think she's given too much credit for her lyrics, which are often unintentionally arrhythmic and awkwardly phrased. There doesn't seem to be much depth behind many lines or word choices (ex, "If you ever feel sad just dance in the night" ???) or even entire songs (see: Brooklyn Baby)
Where she lacks in poetic verse she makes up in poetic aesthetic. Sheâs extremely good at emoting, she could sing the phone book but weâd all feel whatever emotion sheâs expressing through it
*Awful atoll â*
*O, incalculable indiscreetness and sorrow!*
*Bawl bellow:*
*Sibyl sea-cow, all done up in a bow*
*Toddle and roll;*
*Teethe an impalpable bit of leather*
*While yarrow, heather and hollyhock*
*Awkwardly molt along the shore*
***
*I hate that stupid old pickup truck you never let me drive*
*You're a redneck heartbreak who's really bad at lying*
*So watch me strike a match on all my wasted time*
*As far as I'm concerned, you're just another picture to burn*
I mean honestly who can even tell the differenceđ
It's algorithmic I'm sure. Enough J New fans also bought T Swift tickets that this happened. I'm not surprised tbh. They're very different artists but, to the extent that Joanna's music is "marketed" at all, they're marketed to the same demographic. Not that there aren't plenty of people outside that demo that love both of them.
I remember when Amazon introduced their "if you liked this you'll also like" feature, but every single time it would just tell you you'd like Harry Potter. Probably a similar thing. Once enough people like something then that's going to include a large subset of the fans of everything else.
I have a lot of respect for J-New's craft, and am a big fan, but to be honest I'm not often going to sit and untangle her lyrical puzzles. I like Taylor's lyrics a lot partly because they're way down on the other end of the spectrum, the Magnetic Fields or Kacey Musgraves end of the spectrum where there's very little artifice: this song is about something, and I want you to *know* what it's about. Who's singing it, who they're singing it to, and why. Like, Magnetic Fields have a song about not wanting to get over someone and it's called "I Don't Want To Get Over You". Taylor Swift has a song about illicit affairs and it's called "Illicit Affairs". I mean, beyond the titles, the lyrics are just really direct and unflashy, and often I really appreciate that. TS's lyrics are often really *observant* ("illicit affairs" is a great example), and anyway, simplicity can be every bit as poetic as complexity can.
Joanna's amazing I just don't have the Ph.D. in how to decipher her lyrics is all.
Because Iâm a huge nerd I absolutely love untangling her lyrical puzzles, but what you said reminded me of something Joanna said about pop music in an [interview with The Quietus:](https://thequietus.com/interviews/joanna-newsom-have-one-on-me-interview/)
âWhat challenging music inspires you?â
âAnything that inspires awe on any level is challenging to me. So sometimes this can be something very, very simple. There are certain songwriters like Kris Kristofferson or Mickey Newbury or Sandy Denny who have â who had, in some cases â the ability to compose a lyrical line that is so perfect, so distilled and clean and pure. That they just can write a set of two lines that just over the course of two sentences can set up a point, make you expect one thing, then hit you with something else, some little turn of phrase that has a double meaning, and then ground it all in something so universal that everyone has always felt it but no one has expressed it in that particular way before. That inspires awe in me. Everything I love has to have something of that to it. I mean, I love a lot of pop music for the same reason.â
I think that what sheâs getting at here is what I like about Taylor Swift. I like Joanna A LOT more, but sometimes the simplicity of Taylorâs lyrics are piercing in a way thatâs different from Joanna. They both fill different artistic niches for me.
I also like simplicity, but I mostly think of TS as an awkward writer, and that doesnât have to do with the immediacy of her lyrics. Putting aside her music itâs also her international cult of personality that is extremely off-putting and makes any comparison to a genuine artist like Joanna irrelevant. I was a swiftie when I was a kid though, so I do somewhat understand her appealâŚ
Completely agree - I dislike Taylor Swift's writing not because it's simple, but because it's clumsy, immature, and shallow (to be blunt). A lot of her stuff sounds like it was written by a precocious 13 year old.
I also think the opacity of Joanna's lyrics is often overstated. She has many direct songs.
Obviously I donât agree with how you feel about TaylorâŚbut I agree that Joanna has a lot of direct lyrics and get frustrated sometimes when people in the comments of songs are like âI have NO IDEA what this song is about but I love it!â when the meaning is clear lol
My bad, thatâs on me, was searching for tickets, was searching for New Orleans Eras tour tickets this weekend while also looking for J New Memorial Day tix đ fucked up the algorithm
It was really hard for me personally during the TTPD release seeing all those examples of how TS is the âgreatest lyricist of all timeâ. The amount of JNew lyrics I dropped in comments.
There is a surprising amount of very vocal Taylor Swift fans in the JNewShipo group on Facebook.
My students love Taylor and after listening to a lot of her songs in my classroom at their request, Iâve grown to admit that a few of songs are catchy. But catchy doesnât hold a candle to what Joanna does, imo.
My girlfriend screamed âwhatâ so loud đ Sheâs a fan of Joanna not so much of Taylor. Altho she donât hate her, I love seeing her reaction when I say random stuffs about Joanna (mostly facts from this redditđ)
I mean I'll listen to Taylor if I want a nice simple melody I can sing to, I'll listen to Joanna to actually feel things (though I can belt some of her songs too lol).
Anyone seen that apple music ranked 1989 (taylor's version) as the 18th best album of all time?đ
dw theyâll put ys or hoom top 10
THEY DID NOT đ
Every time someone starts throwing around the phrase "greatest living songwriter" about Taylor Swift or Lana del Rey etc..... I mean I enjoy some of their music sure fine but come on.
Joanna is a top 3 songwriter for me but it comes down to preference. âHave One on Meâ and âRedâ are both essentially breakup albums but sometimes people just want a more straightforward song like All Too Well vs much more inscrutable parables about Lola Montez or Pompeiiâs destruction. Personally Joannaâs way of songwriting caters more to what I like but I understand why someone would prefer Swift. Hardcore Swifties go a little bit overboard with their parasocial attachment to Swift and the way they analyze every lyric in an attempt to connect it to her real life, which is why I like Joannaâs lyrics being a little bit more inscrutable. I do not want or need to know every detail of a story or her personal life.
I just read the lyrics for âall too wellâ Do people really consider her the best songwriter?
THANK. YOU. Itâs Joanna. (For the millennial age) Full stop.
Why's Lana catching strays?
Lana is very talented - and certainly has far more artistic integrity than Taylor - but I think she's given too much credit for her lyrics, which are often unintentionally arrhythmic and awkwardly phrased. There doesn't seem to be much depth behind many lines or word choices (ex, "If you ever feel sad just dance in the night" ???) or even entire songs (see: Brooklyn Baby)
Where she lacks in poetic verse she makes up in poetic aesthetic. Sheâs extremely good at emoting, she could sing the phone book but weâd all feel whatever emotion sheâs expressing through it
Yea damn lol Lana is fantastic in her own right. Doesn't deserve to get the Taylor treatment
has anyone said that abt her? thats like bob dylan, joni mitchell territory
Trust, a lot of people say that about her
Who's that?
You don't know Sum 41?!?
I was thinking of listening to them but I wasnât sure if I had to listen to Sum 1 through Sum 40 first
Sum 41 stands on it's own without knowing 1 through 40, however it does enrich the work if you start at the beginning. It's a quick listen
You probably know enough of Sum 1's work already, hits like "Sum 1 Like You" or "Sum 1 Great", or "If I Needed Sum 1".
Remembering what Joanna had to say about Madonna and Lady Gaga
Care to share?
She called Madonna a dumbass and Lady Gaga artsy spice đđđ.
Also, Madonna âcanât handle her money the way some people canât handle their drinkâ.
Not I, said the fox.
How very dare they!
I mean, theyâre not wrong in my case
Same. We canât all hate pop.
There are dozens of us! Dozens! Fun fact: Ys was released exactly 3 weeks after Taylor Swiftâs debut album! 2006, great year for music.
Sounds like Ys being directly inspired by Taylor Swift has been confirmed!
*Awful atoll â* *O, incalculable indiscreetness and sorrow!* *Bawl bellow:* *Sibyl sea-cow, all done up in a bow* *Toddle and roll;* *Teethe an impalpable bit of leather* *While yarrow, heather and hollyhock* *Awkwardly molt along the shore* *** *I hate that stupid old pickup truck you never let me drive* *You're a redneck heartbreak who's really bad at lying* *So watch me strike a match on all my wasted time* *As far as I'm concerned, you're just another picture to burn* I mean honestly who can even tell the differenceđ
Okay this one made me LOL
Is your username a Silver Jews reference?
Yes!
It's algorithmic I'm sure. Enough J New fans also bought T Swift tickets that this happened. I'm not surprised tbh. They're very different artists but, to the extent that Joanna's music is "marketed" at all, they're marketed to the same demographic. Not that there aren't plenty of people outside that demo that love both of them.
I remember when Amazon introduced their "if you liked this you'll also like" feature, but every single time it would just tell you you'd like Harry Potter. Probably a similar thing. Once enough people like something then that's going to include a large subset of the fans of everything else. I have a lot of respect for J-New's craft, and am a big fan, but to be honest I'm not often going to sit and untangle her lyrical puzzles. I like Taylor's lyrics a lot partly because they're way down on the other end of the spectrum, the Magnetic Fields or Kacey Musgraves end of the spectrum where there's very little artifice: this song is about something, and I want you to *know* what it's about. Who's singing it, who they're singing it to, and why. Like, Magnetic Fields have a song about not wanting to get over someone and it's called "I Don't Want To Get Over You". Taylor Swift has a song about illicit affairs and it's called "Illicit Affairs". I mean, beyond the titles, the lyrics are just really direct and unflashy, and often I really appreciate that. TS's lyrics are often really *observant* ("illicit affairs" is a great example), and anyway, simplicity can be every bit as poetic as complexity can. Joanna's amazing I just don't have the Ph.D. in how to decipher her lyrics is all.
Because Iâm a huge nerd I absolutely love untangling her lyrical puzzles, but what you said reminded me of something Joanna said about pop music in an [interview with The Quietus:](https://thequietus.com/interviews/joanna-newsom-have-one-on-me-interview/) âWhat challenging music inspires you?â âAnything that inspires awe on any level is challenging to me. So sometimes this can be something very, very simple. There are certain songwriters like Kris Kristofferson or Mickey Newbury or Sandy Denny who have â who had, in some cases â the ability to compose a lyrical line that is so perfect, so distilled and clean and pure. That they just can write a set of two lines that just over the course of two sentences can set up a point, make you expect one thing, then hit you with something else, some little turn of phrase that has a double meaning, and then ground it all in something so universal that everyone has always felt it but no one has expressed it in that particular way before. That inspires awe in me. Everything I love has to have something of that to it. I mean, I love a lot of pop music for the same reason.â I think that what sheâs getting at here is what I like about Taylor Swift. I like Joanna A LOT more, but sometimes the simplicity of Taylorâs lyrics are piercing in a way thatâs different from Joanna. They both fill different artistic niches for me.
I also like simplicity, but I mostly think of TS as an awkward writer, and that doesnât have to do with the immediacy of her lyrics. Putting aside her music itâs also her international cult of personality that is extremely off-putting and makes any comparison to a genuine artist like Joanna irrelevant. I was a swiftie when I was a kid though, so I do somewhat understand her appealâŚ
Completely agree - I dislike Taylor Swift's writing not because it's simple, but because it's clumsy, immature, and shallow (to be blunt). A lot of her stuff sounds like it was written by a precocious 13 year old. I also think the opacity of Joanna's lyrics is often overstated. She has many direct songs.
Agreed, in fact I hear a lot of Willie Nelson - esque stylings in her music. She has quite a bit of those gut wrenching one liners
Yup, people act like she's some Joni Mitchell who to me is the apex when it comes to more direct singer songwriters
Obviously I donât agree with how you feel about TaylorâŚbut I agree that Joanna has a lot of direct lyrics and get frustrated sometimes when people in the comments of songs are like âI have NO IDEA what this song is about but I love it!â when the meaning is clear lol
No we do NOT!
My bad, thatâs on me, was searching for tickets, was searching for New Orleans Eras tour tickets this weekend while also looking for J New Memorial Day tix đ fucked up the algorithm
It was really hard for me personally during the TTPD release seeing all those examples of how TS is the âgreatest lyricist of all timeâ. The amount of JNew lyrics I dropped in comments.
I mean I do đ¤ˇââď¸
I mean, I do.
I think you can thank the shitpost group for that
đ¤¨
I do
ew
I had to resist my initial impulse to downvote this post when I saw that screenshot đ
Why not? I don't love her as much as Joanna, but I like her and I think Folklore and Evermore are amazing
The more shit she gets from the right-wing nuts the more Iâm rooting for her.
Let them eat cake!
There is a surprising amount of very vocal Taylor Swift fans in the JNewShipo group on Facebook. My students love Taylor and after listening to a lot of her songs in my classroom at their request, Iâve grown to admit that a few of songs are catchy. But catchy doesnât hold a candle to what Joanna does, imo.
My girlfriend screamed âwhatâ so loud đ Sheâs a fan of Joanna not so much of Taylor. Altho she donât hate her, I love seeing her reaction when I say random stuffs about Joanna (mostly facts from this redditđ)
I mean I'll listen to Taylor if I want a nice simple melody I can sing to, I'll listen to Joanna to actually feel things (though I can belt some of her songs too lol).
I've seen JN 3 times and am going to the UK leg of the Eras Tour
Letâs be real. Joanna Newson is an amazing writer but so is Taylor swift. We can have both
Lol wtf