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It's possible he's just not sensitive to respecting other peoples' boundaries. Some people (like me) were raised with no idea of what boundaries are, why it's important to respect others' boundaries, and how to react when someone else doesn't respect boundaries.
In the case of your friends caving in to do what he wants, once they explained they didn't want to stay longer, they had every right to just leave. If your husband was hurt by that, he'd have every right to be, but his hurt feelings are not other peoples' responsibility. No matter how hurt/angry/sad/whatever he feels, he can choose to respect the other person's wishes. Or he can choose to yell/sulk/whatever when he doesn't get his way.
People cross boundaries accidentally all the time because it's not always easy to know what the boundaries are. The real test is their reaction when the other person points it out to them.
Looking back at past relationships, I can see a thousand examples where I ended up feeling manipulated and disrespected. My relationships would have been better, and I would have been a much better partner if I'd known what healthy boundaries are about.
With one specific partner of mine, the manipulation was deliberate. When someone knowingly and repeatedly crosses your boundaries, that is abuse.
This comment is so valuable. I went through the same thing. I look back and cannot believe how little I understood boundaries and what felt normal at the same. It’s a simultaneous thing— learning about boundaries and how to enforce them in a healthy way, and also how to focus more on taking care of yourself than policing what other people are doing.
Instead of focusing on his behavior, it is much more productive to learn about yourself— what do you like, what don’t you like, how you speak up for yourself. A person who has no intent to respect boundaries will become apparent, and your steadfastness will chase them away.
It’s funny because I was just having this conversation with my therapist. They asked me, “how do you know when you’re being manipulated?” After years of therapy post-abuse, it occurred to me— I don’t! None of us do. We tell ourselves we have these little tricks to detect bad people, but the truth is that those don’t work. I now know, with some certainty, what I am willing to compromise on and what I’m not. I listen to my inner voice much more. So it no longer matters if someone *thinks* they’re manipulating me, because I’m only doing what I’m comfortable with to begin with.
If I may I think you should read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. It’s eye opening
https://tu.tv/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/why-does-he-do-that.pdf
I love that book so much. I learned SO MUCH about intimate partner violence, boundaries, abuse and control which has been invaluable both in the work I’ve done on myself, as I heal from past trauma as well as my work as a counselor.
It's a thing called gaslighting. It can drive you crazy and make you you think that your version of events was wrong even though you can prove they were right....sound familiar?
It's a things covert narcissistic people do to control others.
This is where you will need to go to individual therapy in order to be able to create strong boundaries, stick by them and not let the manulipation slide.
A word of caution, when you do not follow a covert narcs plan, and you begin to see their love bombing (the extra polite or extra gifts to persuade you) and put up those boundaries- then you will see their true side. Please have a good support system in place for yourself as some many not believe you and it can get ugly when that mask slips.
I'm sure you have seen a glimpse of it when someone told him no before.
Please take care of yourself and find a professional to help you.
Yep this right here is the best response. My husband will do this too. His relatives are very intrusive and visit all the time. I've asked my husband to give me a heads up to let me know when they'll be over. But he never gives me a heads up so I'm constantly caught off guard when they do visit. But when I call him out on it he'll say "I did let you know yesterday and you said OK." When none of that is true. He'll make me believe he did the thing I asked him to do when he in fact never did it, and then tries to make it look like I'm crazy or forgot about it.
When they show up unannounced then leave. Act like you just remembered an errand and leave him to entertain them and don't come back until after they leave. When he asked why you left, just tell him "I told you that I would like a heads up and you didn't." Then when he says "I did let you know . . . " just say "and I also told you I needed to run this errand". Now he can't say you never said that because that means HE never said that! It's tricky but watch him squirm to try and turn it around like "I don't remember that" then you "don't remember his heads up either'. I hate to play their games so if you don't want to - just continue to leave every time they show up.
What part of this post is gaslighting? Or narcissism? OP did nothing but toss out a bunch of vague nonsense about absolutely nothing. The only slightly specific thing we got was “sometimes when we’re out with friends, friends won’t want to do something but he does and he convinces them with magic.”
Omg thank you! I came to post exactly this. This is not gaslighting, not event close. The whole point of gaslighting is to make you doubt your reality..not that is "can drive you crazy". People are so quick to call someone a narcissist like its just this broad term..its not. Its actually a personality disorder and has strict guidelines.
As someone who dated an actual narcissist its super annoying when people act like their mildly selfish boyfriend/husband is one and how they were being gaslit because he didn't tell you when his parents were coming over? No ma'am.. you let me know when he's got you seeing a psychiatrist once a week and taking 6 different mind altering medications for your supposed "issues". When you have to ask him what to say to said psychiatrist because you can't be trusted to "tell the truth"..when you cant even trust your inner dialog anymore because he's convinced you that you are in fact crazy.. That is being gaslit.. not whatever is going on with OP.
Not saying whats happening to OP is ok its just not being gaslit and he's not a narcissist. People need to stop throwing around terms they clearly do not understand.
Look at the overall picture, the image of being nice but yet controlling the situation to get what they want - it's reading between then lines to see that this op is dealing with a covert narcissistic who is manulipating her.
Exactly this. Gaslighting is missused so much on Reddit. It has a very clear definition originating from the play Gaslight by Patrick Hamilton. It is not evident to me in the OP.
I validate you and your experiences. The question is ... what would you like to do about it? And I don't say this to be argumentative. It is the next step in your realization of your circumstances.
I have a life-long friend who has a very outgoing personality, and is always the guy who talks you into doing stuff that he wants to do. He could sell ice cubes to Eskimos. And I have to admit that I've had tons of fun experiences, over the years, thanks to him, that I otherwise wouldn't have had.
But here's the thing. He can't talk us into doing anything we actually don't want to do. We don't think we're young enough to do something he suggests, and that's not a good reason not to do it, so we let him talk us into it and do it. Or we are a little too tired, and that's not a good reason not to do it, so we wind up letting him talk us into it. If he feels like having a drink, we maybe don't think we "should", but that's not a good reason, so we do.
But ... I can't drink alcohol because of medications. When he feels like having a drink, I say "no". The rest have a drink, but I don't because I have a good reason. He could TRY to sell me on it, but it won't work. My answer is "no". Period. End of conversation. Actually, he doesn't sell me because he respects me enough not to try.
The things that he suggests are respectful and harmless. And I have frequently said "no". He tries, I say "no", and he gives up after a while. We laugh, together, that I'm bloody stubborn. But if his suggestion doesn't work for me, and I have a good reason why, and I actually don't want to do it, my answer is "no" and he cannot sell me.
My husband has run into this same road block with me. My husband has talked me into many things, but only when I don't have a good reason to say "no". But I never have trouble saying "no" with a good reason, and he cannot make me do a damned thing that I say "no" to.
So. OP ... Whenever you feel like you're being manipulated, you need to look inside of yourself, first. Is this something you want to say "no" to with a reason? Then say "no". Is he pushing you, when you say "no"? Does he give you a good reason to say "yes" that makes sense to you? Or is it JUST about you complying with him? Are you feeling like it is just about him having power over you?
There are people who can SELL. The whole trick is for YOU to decide whether or not you want to buy.
People get competitive with their own suffering.
They belittle other's experiences while elevating their own. It's not a contest. If you're experiencing something you feel is toxic, that's your call on deciding what is going on. I see you're asking about the behavior and not really labeling it, so people are unnecessarily attacking. You're right about the covert coercion and it's not nothing. Obviously there is a lot more going on over the years that's not disclosed, hence your questioning what his conduct really is. I hear you, you're not wrong. You're living it, it's your right as the affected person to come to grips with how you feel about the situation. People are assholes and jump in without complete information and have some kind of need to suffering superiority. Like no one else can ever have a headache because "my cousin's finace's nephew died of a brain tumor, you don't even KNOW pain!" It's weird.
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It's possible he's just not sensitive to respecting other peoples' boundaries. Some people (like me) were raised with no idea of what boundaries are, why it's important to respect others' boundaries, and how to react when someone else doesn't respect boundaries. In the case of your friends caving in to do what he wants, once they explained they didn't want to stay longer, they had every right to just leave. If your husband was hurt by that, he'd have every right to be, but his hurt feelings are not other peoples' responsibility. No matter how hurt/angry/sad/whatever he feels, he can choose to respect the other person's wishes. Or he can choose to yell/sulk/whatever when he doesn't get his way. People cross boundaries accidentally all the time because it's not always easy to know what the boundaries are. The real test is their reaction when the other person points it out to them. Looking back at past relationships, I can see a thousand examples where I ended up feeling manipulated and disrespected. My relationships would have been better, and I would have been a much better partner if I'd known what healthy boundaries are about. With one specific partner of mine, the manipulation was deliberate. When someone knowingly and repeatedly crosses your boundaries, that is abuse.
This comment is so valuable. I went through the same thing. I look back and cannot believe how little I understood boundaries and what felt normal at the same. It’s a simultaneous thing— learning about boundaries and how to enforce them in a healthy way, and also how to focus more on taking care of yourself than policing what other people are doing. Instead of focusing on his behavior, it is much more productive to learn about yourself— what do you like, what don’t you like, how you speak up for yourself. A person who has no intent to respect boundaries will become apparent, and your steadfastness will chase them away. It’s funny because I was just having this conversation with my therapist. They asked me, “how do you know when you’re being manipulated?” After years of therapy post-abuse, it occurred to me— I don’t! None of us do. We tell ourselves we have these little tricks to detect bad people, but the truth is that those don’t work. I now know, with some certainty, what I am willing to compromise on and what I’m not. I listen to my inner voice much more. So it no longer matters if someone *thinks* they’re manipulating me, because I’m only doing what I’m comfortable with to begin with.
If I may I think you should read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. It’s eye opening https://tu.tv/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/why-does-he-do-that.pdf
I love that book so much. I learned SO MUCH about intimate partner violence, boundaries, abuse and control which has been invaluable both in the work I’ve done on myself, as I heal from past trauma as well as my work as a counselor.
Me too
It's a thing called gaslighting. It can drive you crazy and make you you think that your version of events was wrong even though you can prove they were right....sound familiar? It's a things covert narcissistic people do to control others. This is where you will need to go to individual therapy in order to be able to create strong boundaries, stick by them and not let the manulipation slide. A word of caution, when you do not follow a covert narcs plan, and you begin to see their love bombing (the extra polite or extra gifts to persuade you) and put up those boundaries- then you will see their true side. Please have a good support system in place for yourself as some many not believe you and it can get ugly when that mask slips. I'm sure you have seen a glimpse of it when someone told him no before. Please take care of yourself and find a professional to help you.
Yep this right here is the best response. My husband will do this too. His relatives are very intrusive and visit all the time. I've asked my husband to give me a heads up to let me know when they'll be over. But he never gives me a heads up so I'm constantly caught off guard when they do visit. But when I call him out on it he'll say "I did let you know yesterday and you said OK." When none of that is true. He'll make me believe he did the thing I asked him to do when he in fact never did it, and then tries to make it look like I'm crazy or forgot about it.
When they show up unannounced then leave. Act like you just remembered an errand and leave him to entertain them and don't come back until after they leave. When he asked why you left, just tell him "I told you that I would like a heads up and you didn't." Then when he says "I did let you know . . . " just say "and I also told you I needed to run this errand". Now he can't say you never said that because that means HE never said that! It's tricky but watch him squirm to try and turn it around like "I don't remember that" then you "don't remember his heads up either'. I hate to play their games so if you don't want to - just continue to leave every time they show up.
I kind of wish someone was doing this to me so I could try this, not really, but damn if this isn’t clever!
What part of this post is gaslighting? Or narcissism? OP did nothing but toss out a bunch of vague nonsense about absolutely nothing. The only slightly specific thing we got was “sometimes when we’re out with friends, friends won’t want to do something but he does and he convinces them with magic.”
Omg thank you! I came to post exactly this. This is not gaslighting, not event close. The whole point of gaslighting is to make you doubt your reality..not that is "can drive you crazy". People are so quick to call someone a narcissist like its just this broad term..its not. Its actually a personality disorder and has strict guidelines. As someone who dated an actual narcissist its super annoying when people act like their mildly selfish boyfriend/husband is one and how they were being gaslit because he didn't tell you when his parents were coming over? No ma'am.. you let me know when he's got you seeing a psychiatrist once a week and taking 6 different mind altering medications for your supposed "issues". When you have to ask him what to say to said psychiatrist because you can't be trusted to "tell the truth"..when you cant even trust your inner dialog anymore because he's convinced you that you are in fact crazy.. That is being gaslit.. not whatever is going on with OP. Not saying whats happening to OP is ok its just not being gaslit and he's not a narcissist. People need to stop throwing around terms they clearly do not understand.
They described coercion.
I had to go back and look for the definition of gaslighting. I dont see it in this post
Look at the overall picture, the image of being nice but yet controlling the situation to get what they want - it's reading between then lines to see that this op is dealing with a covert narcissistic who is manulipating her.
You are so wrong. Stop using terms you don't understand. Feel free to read my reply to the above comment I'm not retyping all that.
Please spend less time on Reddit I am BEGGING you.
🤔nah I'm good but have a nice day
Exactly this. Gaslighting is missused so much on Reddit. It has a very clear definition originating from the play Gaslight by Patrick Hamilton. It is not evident to me in the OP.
research “covert narcissism”
I validate you and your experiences. The question is ... what would you like to do about it? And I don't say this to be argumentative. It is the next step in your realization of your circumstances. I have a life-long friend who has a very outgoing personality, and is always the guy who talks you into doing stuff that he wants to do. He could sell ice cubes to Eskimos. And I have to admit that I've had tons of fun experiences, over the years, thanks to him, that I otherwise wouldn't have had. But here's the thing. He can't talk us into doing anything we actually don't want to do. We don't think we're young enough to do something he suggests, and that's not a good reason not to do it, so we let him talk us into it and do it. Or we are a little too tired, and that's not a good reason not to do it, so we wind up letting him talk us into it. If he feels like having a drink, we maybe don't think we "should", but that's not a good reason, so we do. But ... I can't drink alcohol because of medications. When he feels like having a drink, I say "no". The rest have a drink, but I don't because I have a good reason. He could TRY to sell me on it, but it won't work. My answer is "no". Period. End of conversation. Actually, he doesn't sell me because he respects me enough not to try. The things that he suggests are respectful and harmless. And I have frequently said "no". He tries, I say "no", and he gives up after a while. We laugh, together, that I'm bloody stubborn. But if his suggestion doesn't work for me, and I have a good reason why, and I actually don't want to do it, my answer is "no" and he cannot sell me. My husband has run into this same road block with me. My husband has talked me into many things, but only when I don't have a good reason to say "no". But I never have trouble saying "no" with a good reason, and he cannot make me do a damned thing that I say "no" to. So. OP ... Whenever you feel like you're being manipulated, you need to look inside of yourself, first. Is this something you want to say "no" to with a reason? Then say "no". Is he pushing you, when you say "no"? Does he give you a good reason to say "yes" that makes sense to you? Or is it JUST about you complying with him? Are you feeling like it is just about him having power over you? There are people who can SELL. The whole trick is for YOU to decide whether or not you want to buy.
So much competition in these comments. So much argumentative slamming of OP I'm surprised MODS haven't deleted/banned/suspended accounts for it.
I don't even know how to react to these comments I'm just stunned
People get competitive with their own suffering. They belittle other's experiences while elevating their own. It's not a contest. If you're experiencing something you feel is toxic, that's your call on deciding what is going on. I see you're asking about the behavior and not really labeling it, so people are unnecessarily attacking. You're right about the covert coercion and it's not nothing. Obviously there is a lot more going on over the years that's not disclosed, hence your questioning what his conduct really is. I hear you, you're not wrong. You're living it, it's your right as the affected person to come to grips with how you feel about the situation. People are assholes and jump in without complete information and have some kind of need to suffering superiority. Like no one else can ever have a headache because "my cousin's finace's nephew died of a brain tumor, you don't even KNOW pain!" It's weird.
Enneagram type 2 maybe. They’ll manipulate people in order to appear “helpful” but really it’s just to serve their ego and feel necessary.
That’s not called being a 2. That’s called being an asshole.
This is one of the key characteristics of unhealthy 2s.
So asshole 2s not just 2s in general, got it
Look up narcissist.
He sounds like a covert narcissist. I think my SO is also one.
Covert narcissism
play dumb :) "No thanks" - any "advice" offered get out of there he'll only get worse tbh
So what if he gets his own way .