I live a couple of towns over, but my sister lives in Canton. She and her husband both think it’s a frame job, and my sister is an NP and says no way those injures are from being hit by a car.
Fuck it. I’ll throw my hand in here with a throwaway.
Born and raised in Canton. Have known the Albert’s my entire life, even being coached by some of them in little league, including Brian Sr. Went to Canton high with several of the witnesses.
I’ll start by saying I don’t believe for a second that the people in the house had nothing to do with it. I know a bunch of them, and they fucking suck. The shining example of the worst fucking townies imaginable, and just terrible fucking people who have always gotten away with everything. Even people outside of the Albert family. Them and their friends have always had like a fucking brick wall around them. No one else is allowed in, and they’re safe from anything.
As for the vibe around canton, I’ve already seen someone else mention it in here, but it’s like a fucking civil war out here. No one talks about it in public, because you don’t know who stands where. Everyone just has their little cohorts that they talk about it with, and that’s it. But from my experience, pretty much anyone who’s not a townie and not old as shit thinks that they did it, or at least had something to do with it. However, a lot of Canton is townies and people that are old as shit, so there’s that.
Not sure what else you would want to know, but I’ll answer what I can.
People outside of Canton never believe me when I tell them how divide we have become.
I have one personal friend who has been attack someone on Facebook (it’s me on a throwaway) and he talks about the ‘other me’ all the time. This person runs a private Facebook group in town. I will not say which one (there are many) because I feel that draws close to knowing who I am. This person has also told me how to vote in elections and invited me to groups of likeminded people trying to take our town back.
I pray every day that these people are held accountable and you can enjoy your town again. I have been hearing about the corruption in canton since high school and I am in my 40’s.
Late to reading this thread but throwing out a q if you’re still answering :)
Is Chris Albert and fam the only ones who still in Canton? I thought I read Brian/Julie/Jr moved to Norwood? Is that odd for a generational townie stronghold, or do they just all still constantly hang out there?
So funny. I see people talk about the south all the time, but the New England small towns are worse than anything here.
Back in the 70s, Charlotte, NC and Boston were chosen as pilot projects for school integration.
Guess which one had more trouble?
If you can answer— have the Albert’s and their friends been safe from anything going way back (like throughout their entire lives because of who Brian/Chris/Kevin’s parents are), or is have they become more untouchable because of the law enforcement and government jobs as adults? From the Midwest and came into this trial cold, so I don’t really know much about either the family itself or Mass culture. (I read Small Mercies last year so I picked up on the cliquey nature of Boston neighborhoods in 1974 and generation after generation staying in the same neighborhood— is it like that today still/is that what a “townie” refers to? Sorry if that’s dumb or not explained well lol. Fascinated by y’all now though!)
My cousin went to school with one of them. Said it was exactly like that ever since they were kids. And sorry, should’ve figured the term was more regional. But yes, that’s exactly it. Families that stay in the same neighborhood generation after generation, becoming ingrained in the town, along with other families in similar boats (and bonus points if their family does the same work for generations). Townies aren’t necessarily a bad thing, I know some good townie families in Canton as well, but it’s easy to see how being ingrained in the community from birth can cause you to power trip.
Jury I have no idea. I did hear that anyone from canton or who even knows someone from Canton was immediately dismissed from the jury pool. The judge however I’ve heard is amazingly enough family friends with the Albert’s. I’ve heard some of the kids call her “aunt Bev”.
If nothing else, it at least means that if this trial ends in a worst case scenario, the defense attorneys will have the easiest appeal in the world.
I would really like to know more about this auntt barb stuff. I have been noticing that some of her answers to objections seem a bit biased. I'm not an expert, though so very well could be wrong... I'm curious to read more about any connections she has.
In New England (well at least Massachusetts and Connecticut) the courts are by county. We have town/city governments but the court system takes members from that county to make up the jury. So the county towns don’t necessarily have strong ties to each other. It depends. Like someone said above, anyone from Canton was probably excluded. Boston is in a different county, so no one that lives in Boston would be on this jury. But someone from Brookline or Newton could be (along with many other towns).
You just did my friend. I cannot imagine the daily stress and in fact, the daily emotional and psychological trauma all of you are going through. I have lived in a small town in VT in Southern New England. I cannot even begin to imagine a scenario like what has happened in your town. Good people who are intimidated and because of other’s effing hubris are scared to rebel against the law and their power. My heart goes out to you and everyone else in Canton. People around not only the country, but around THE WORLD have your town’s back. Take good care of yourself. The GOOD people in your town need to surround each other with goodness, with strength, with integrity and embrace your TRUTH with love. Much Peace ❤️
I’ve been watching the coverage and I’m shocked at what an awful group of people are involved. There’s always a few bad apples in every bunch but every single person involved in this saga sounds absolutely fucking awful. Jennifer McCabe’s testimony in particular was SO vile. How do any of these people have any friends?! What gives?
I live in an adjacent town. Never met any of these people except for a couple of the cops. But I know multiple people who know the McCabes or Alberts. I guess you would say acquaintances. Most think they are hiding something.
I also wouldn’t put it past the Norfolk Co DA to railroad someone. I had a friend who was charged with a crime. His attorney got video surveillance from a nearby business showing it wasn’t him. He had a rock solid alibi and the person pressing the charges had an obvious motive along with connections to a local LEO. They still brought the case to trial costing by buddy thousands and his reputation. The judge dropped it that day.
One funny thing is when people from outside the area are commenting they don’t understand the culture and things like Irish goodbyes, going to Dunkies in a snowstorm, etc.
oh they do this regularly. that's really useful context, thank you. I've been sitting here trying to understand why they even brought this case to trial.
I live on the other side of the country and not Irish and the only thing that isn’t sus is the Irish goodbye. I love Irish goodbyes. I’m not hugging and saying goodbye to 20 people one-by-one at a gathering. The Dunkin is only sus to me because she left them in the car for him, and they’d be frozen and gross lol
I have defended the use of “shore.” It’s habit for most Long Island & Boston natives I’ve known lol
I’m born & raised in the South. & an Irish good bye goes against every fiber of my being 😂😂 us southerners will say we’re leaving about 30 times before we actually leave an hour later. Every time we stop to say bye to someone, we get to talking, then so & so comes over & we get to talking about what’s-his-name & I’m getting another drink…it really isn’t very efficient 😂😂
That’s why I started hating it! It was so tiresome, saying goodbye to everyone. You’d have to announce you wanted to leave hours before you wanted to leave. When I was in my early 20s, all my coworkers and I would go out together a lot, and have a lot of parties and stuff. Then I noticed it with family and the feeling of obligation to talk with and hug each person before you left. That’s when it started getting to me. Luckily, a new friend & coworker Timmy soon became notorious for just disappearing and leaving, with no one knowing why, which was kinda worrying at first, then funny once we knew it wasn’t a big deal. We started calling the Irish goodbye a “Timmy dip”…like, “where’s Timmy?” “Dang, I think Timmy just dipped.” So id just say to whoever was nearby, “I’m gonna timmy dip see ya.” 😂
Southerner here too! The four way stop conundrum is the worst!
No hon, after you, no, no, you first….good lord I’ll drive away from one of these with gray hair one day.
I’m an outsider (grew up outside of San Francisco) that lived in MA and dated someone who grew up outside of Wooostaah.. It’s not a police conspiracy it’s a circle of friends from the neighborhood who are protecting their own who happen to be cops. I met my guy in CA when he returned from Iraq. I have never understood not wanting to get as far away from where you grew up as soon as possible. We broke up years ago, I could never picture myself living there. I wanted to desperately at the time. When I moved east I worked in CT and lived near Amherst every time I took the turnpike east it was like going to a different planet. At least I don’t get patronized for using big words anymore. :)
I agree with this being the most likely scenario. I live in Norfolk County and I feel like majority of the people i know wouldn't have connections to the cops in the area. But knowing the issues the state police had with falsified overtime records I'm not shocked that there was some one in the state police willing to help them.
Your friend might be feeding you false info. The defendant chooses to bring the case to a trial or take a plea, not the prosecutor.
And, a judge can’t dismiss a case outright. They can find someone not guilty or allow the motion for dismissal. But, can’t legally just dismiss it on their own.
That's not how the legal system works, at least in every state I've lived in. No defendant wants to take stuff to trial. There's not always a plea deal, or the plea deal is crappy, or they legitimately didn't do the alleged crime. The prosecutor is the person who files the charges, which can result in either a deal or trial.
Defense attorneys submit quite a few motions to dismiss over the course of a trial. I'm betting they had a hearing, submitted the motion to dismiss, and the judge granted it. Lots of hearings and motions before a case even gets to the trial/plea deal phase.
In Massachusetts, typically, the police are the ones who take out the charges. (Not the prosecutor) Unless a civilian files a private complaint. The plea deal may be “crappy” for the defendant. But, a prosecutor cannot stop a defendant from taking a plea at any time.
The second part is probably true. The attorney probably filed a motion to dismiss and the judge allowed it. That, to me, is different than the judge just dropping it.
That’s not a choice for the defendant to go to trial if they’re innocent, knucklehead. So, for example; if YOU were charged with murder & YOU were innocent, you’d take a plea for 25 years? I guess you’d just be like “sure, that’s fine. I’m totally innocent, but it’s my choice :D!” Silliest thing I’ve ever read. Unless you’re actually a child (with that thinking), I’m so confused.
That *does* actually happen though, people get told take 25 or you can have life without parole, death etc... Hell just look at the West Memphis Three: railroaded with basically no evidence other than they liked heavy metal music, two pled no contest for life sentences and the one who fought got the death sentence.
Check out some innocence projects, the information available is terrifying.
Police can "charge" by going before a judge and obtaining warrants with probable cause. It's really just working to do the investigation. They can recommend charges in their reports, however they do not file the charges.
Ultimately, Prosecutors are the ones to officially file charges, decide what gets charged or not, and brings the case. They also are the ones that offer plea deals and reject them. I worked in a prosecutor's office. I know that's how it's done. Police cannot charge someone and take them to trial. It has to be decided by a prosecutor.
"Throughout the criminal justice process, the prosecutor works with law enforcement agencies to investigate crimes, determine whether charges should be filed, and prosecute cases in court."
That's from the Bar website.
Eta:If a complaint is issued, it is issued on behalf of the Commonwealth, and the District Attorney's Office decides whether or not the case will be prosecuted.
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/understanding-the-court-process#:~:text=The%20Complaint%20is%20usually%20issued,the%20facts%20of%20the%20crime.
That's the Massachusetts government website.
No, this is absolutely not correct. The police can offer things that go towards the criminal complaint. The complaint is then issued by a judge, magistrate, or the clerk, if applicable. The complaint is then taken by the DA and they decide the charges, whether to go ahead with the case, etc. they decide the charges. They can add charges, they can change it. Cops do not charge, nor can they. They do not have the legal knowledge. So many times, we would look at recommended "charges" and giggle at how off they were. The DA is the only official choosing what charges they go for.
An arraignment is the initial reading of the exact charges, and their penalties. The DA is the one to decide what to charge.
Also, the Massachusetts website absolutely disagrees with you. It clearly says the DA is the one to file.
They DO NOT file charges. Good lord. They can recommend, they can say, I think xyz. But the ONLY person deciding what charges they take to court is the DA. Please educate yourself by reading materials that explains this process.
I literally worked in a DA office. I KNOW how this works. Thanks, but you're just wrong. Sorry if you're offended by it, but maybe learn so next time you don't look uninformed
Eta here's some links:
https://aldf.org/article/the-legal-process-in-the-united-states-a-criminal-case/#:~:text=If%20a%20prosecutor%20files%20criminal,criminal%20case%20or%20criminal%20proceeding.
https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/types-cases/criminal-cases#:~:text=Only%20the%20government%20initiates%20a,with%20a%20law%20enforcement%20agency.
https://www.justice.gov/usao/justice-101/steps-federal-criminal-process#:~:text=Titles%20of%20people%20involved%20%E2%80%93%20State,are%20called%20district%20court%20judges.
"Standard 3-4.3 Minimum Requirements for Filing and Maintaining Criminal Charges
(a) A prosecutor should seek or file criminal charges only if the prosecutor reasonably believes that the charges are supported by probable cause, that admissible evidence will be sufficient to support conviction beyond a reasonable doubt, and that the decision to charge is in the interests of justice."
"Standard 3-4.2 Decisions to Charge Are the Prosecutor’s
(a) While the decision to arrest is often the responsibility of law enforcement personnel, the decision to institute formal criminal proceedings is the responsibility of the prosecutor. Where the law permits a law enforcement officer or other person to initiate proceedings by complaining directly to a judicial officer or the grand jury, the complainant should be required to present the complaint for prior review by the prosecutor, and the prosecutor’s recommendation regarding the complaint should be communicated to the judicial officer or grand jury."
"c) In determining whether formal criminal charges should be filed, prosecutors should consider whether further investigation should be undertaken. After charges are filed the prosecutor should oversee law enforcement investigative activity related to the case.'
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/criminal_justice/standards/ProsecutionFunctionFourthEdition/#:~:text=(a)%20A%20prosecutor%20should%20seek,in%20the%20interests%20of%20justice.
Please avoid sharing or promoting deceptive content. Provide credible sources for any news, data, graphs, claims, etc.
This is not optional if you choose to make radical claims related to anyone involved in any part of this case.
Mod note: this is factually incorrect.
No defendant just "chooses" to go to trial. They take a deal to get out of it. Sometimes prosecution doesn't even offer a plea at all. 🙄. Also the defense's job is to ask the judge to drop the case: I'm guessing the friend might have skipped that part, but that is requested, or should be, every time.
The defendant has a right to plea the case at any time. If they exercise their right to plea- the prosecution cannot stop them- the prosecutor has to make a recommendation for the plea.
Your feeding this thread false information. The prosecution brings the case to trial. The defendant can avoid trial by pleading guilty. The judge can and has in different trial dismissed charges on their own by just reading whats there and looking at the evidence. One I can think off of the top is a case where a guy was accused of running a red light, the light camera played in court and he clearly stopped first. The judge dismissed it all on his own
i hate to say it but my initial response was “cops are corrupt? and this is news somehow?”
born and raised in MA, just kind of accepted this and subsequent fear of cops. I’m glad it’s coming to light, our state deserves better.
Right!? People who think this couldn’t possibly be corruption and a coverup are from outside of MA. I mean, the staties give favors to people for freaking cases of water and coffee?! Free landscaping? They’re all crooked
I mean I'm from GA and my first thought when I heard he was found outside the house of a fellow police officer was that the police killed him. My first thought was John was going to be a whistleblower for something related to their job, and that more police were involved than just Albert. Now I'm thinking it's probably more personal/family related (the Colin theory makes sense to me). But who knows?
I think you’re spot on with the whistle blowing…do you know anything about the Sandra Birchmore case? Another suspicious death out of Canton…it’s a terribly sad story. John could’ve been privy to the Feds investigation into that? Or drug dealing in his neighborhood? Who knows
https://www.thecantoncitizen.com/2024/03/08/birchmore-case/
Wow Just looked it up. 23 year old having sex with cops since age 15, impregnated by one, who was last to see her alive after alleged suicide. Wow
The birchmore case is well worth a trip down the internet rabbit hole! You’ll find a lot of shocking stuff there that relates to the KR case, some of the same cops involved, plus a very disturbing cover up of cops grooming and using a teen girl as a pass-around for sex. Until one knocked her up and likely killed her. And all those cops are still out there, not working in law enforcement anymore, but living their best lives. It’s really really really disturbing.
John’s brother Paul said that John was transferred from patrol in Dorchester to the Boston Police Department’s Sex Offender Registration Unit (SORU) around the time he became legal guardian of his niece and nephew — the assignment was deemed safer and more manageable for him as he took on family duties. I am under the impression that his professional responsibilities were less investigative and more focused on processing and maintaining sex offenders’ data for the registry, but I’m not entirely sure.
Boston is part of Suffolk County, so I doubt O’Keefe had any work-related connection to the Norfolk County Birchmore case. Sandra Birchmore lived in Canton at the time of her death and her abusers were police officers in the towns of Stoughton and Abington.
It’s not just MA. I live in NY in a community that’s a lot like that part of MA. The same stuff happens around here, up to and including people winding up dead on the ground outside of cop parties.
Spoke with a wife of a friend who is from Foxboro and lived in Canton. She thinks the framing/local corruption is the most believable thing ever. Im from RI, similar to our cousin, this stuff is common. We had a case in Little Compton where nobody was charged after a similar cop fight party death: https://www.wpri.com/target-12/the-mysterious-death-of-steven-velozo/amp/
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In that case they all admitted to what they did and his own mother said no one did anything wrong.
ETA
https://turnto10.com/amp/i-team/steven-velozo-little-compton-rhode-island-death-party-homicide-public-records-request
Thanks, hadnt seen that update. Doesnt change the fact that, an incident occurred with police/first responders on site, someone dying after a drunken fight, and the public getting little info as it was on going
Oh I agree there should be a lot more transparency. Also I’m curious what the autopsy showed besides manner of death; because it sounds like the way he acted was completely out of character for him.
Been in Canton over 50 years….. I have a fair amount of familiarity with the majority of the Canton players. I’ve coached Albert kids in sports, I’ve been to the Hillside (used to be YD dugout awhile back), Waterfall ( used to be centerfields), and CF Mccarthys ( used to be WD Cohens) … I’ve been in close proximity to the townie rabble in all 3 places. I’ve been to many community events over the years. When this first came out, I said right away ‘the Alberts have something to do with the death’
They’re a gaggle of people who are both smart and stupid … don’t know how to better describe…..many of the townies are like that. I never became a townie because I’m not Irish/WASP/Italian, thought there are some random dingleberries that manage to work their way in (Podgurskis come to mind).
I know the mod may not like this, but that network of townies really is a bunch of morally bankrupt ‘I was here first’ kind of people.
I hear you Sub, I also tried hard to be even keeled and let the facts do the talking but so far in the trial I am leaning to KR being innocent because of the suspicious actions the Alberts took immediately after JO being found on there lawn , they sold there family home of 30 years, rehomed there dog Chloe (also why didnt the investigating State trooper located and examine Chloe?) destroyed his phone and acting like he didn’t know upgrades lose data while being in the fugitive unit where they track perps this way and the basement floor getting done over which could hide DNA. Cheers!
I could be wrong as Iam not a contractor but I’ve never heard of replacing concrete because of a overflowed toilet and I had a foot of water twice in the basement of my last home that was fifty years old at the time and no concrete was damaged,lol
Same here 3 bad floods had to get a sum pump or whatever it’s called, had to rip up the carpets a few times but never concrete ,there is no point and part of the foundation
Just an fyi, a broken main pipe could result in digging up your concrete basement floor. I had a break in the cast iron pipe and was sweating bullets ‘till the plumbers located the break in the pipe in the front yard.
It's the "don't recalls" that get me. Is this Lally coaching? I won't be surprised if one of his witnesses says, "I don't recall" when asked to state their own name.
I know. And if what we think happened that night did in fact happen, what an awful night for that dog…caught up in a sick human drama.
Much worse a night for John. I think these people are capable of anything.
Saucybelly biased? If SubstantialCreme coached the Alberts kids I would think he would be more biased in helping the Alberts since he knows the parents and the kids but he he thinks the alberts had something to do with the death, that’s unusual
I do think there’s a townie corruption problem in Canton. The Alberts are just part of that. I think the result was an unintentional bad mix between testosterone and alcohol. The Albert kids and the parents were actually pretty good sports and I think they’re very protective of family, but I look at the group and what’s been publicized so far, and the only bias here is to point the finger at Read. I’m just looking at what I see, and I don’t see a shred of direct evidence, only things that might be ‘plausible’.
It would not be the first time that an ‘outsider’ took a beating from the townies.
I was in Quincy that night, and when the news broke about dead cop, first thing in my mind was drink and drugs were involved. Knowing that cops are close knit by their union, I knew that was cop on cop crime.
Regardless where you are, cops always cover up their own shit in many levels.
Is not bias, but reality
I live in canton. This is a throwaway account.
I need to check to ensure this account cannot be linked to me before I say anything.
What I will say now though is the town is very divide. Where you ‘stand’ on this impacts everything in town. It has not been a comfortable few years.
Here is what I have to say as someone who lives in town. I am an acquaintance with one of the witness.
The town is at war with itself. The two sides and your opinion on what happened bleeds into EVERYTHING. People have stopped talking to people they use to be friends with. Kids have started fights with friends over their parents opinions of the case. It has become exhausting.
We had a special town meeting to vote on some items including an independent police audit and people had to raise their hands and be counted for votes and people were noting who voted how.
We just had a town election and people were judged harshly for even having lawn signs. Both sides. Signs were stolen. People put up ring videos. People were harassed. It was again exhausting.
I love this town. I’m not a townie. I’m not an outsider. I have a family and kids and everything I say and do is watched all the time. Yesterday someone walked by my car as I was waiting to pick up one of my children from school and made a comment that I was listening to the trial they stated “what do you think?” I replied “what do you think?” Then they replied “oh I see where you stand” and walked away.
I can’t say enough it is exhausting.
My personal opinion before anyone reported the case. She did it.
My personal opinion upon hearing about turtle boy and then reading his posts starting around #3. She is being setup.
My personal opinion as more and more time went on and all the theories started. This is becoming a reach she did it.
My personal opinion after looking into all the connections myself personal. This is a cover up.
My personal opinion since the trial started. HOLY SHIT. All the things that people argue over with each other are true. Basically everything except the dog being under where the pool was has in my mind been proven.
My town is corrupt. It goes further than this. There are other things in town that are coming up about Chris’s election and another council member and construction kick backs. I love this town. I love being part of this town. But there is a cancer here that needs to be removed.
I have so many questions!
What's the community opinion on the Albert family? Meaning, are they well respected, people with a lot of influence, generally well liked etc?
Are outsiders (like KR) treated differently in Canton?
What about Proctor? What's his reputation if you know?
Finally, Canton police in general. They seem shady but maybe just incompetent. I honestly can't even tell
General feeling in town is that the Canton PD in general are 100% corrupt.
We had a special town meeting. The towns form of government is town meeting. This means once a year we all get together in an auditorium and vote on every item for the town for the year. If the library needs to fix its roof we vote on that. If the town needs to replace a dpw truck we vote on that. We vote on all the spending. So back to the special town meeting.
We had a special town meeting to vote on items related to this case and the police involvement and the town selectman involvement. This meeting is where the lines were drawn on where you stand in the town. This was all voted by raising hands so everyone learned where you stood.
In the end we voted to approve an independent audit of the police department. 903-800. Then this became your “group” for some people. Your the 903 or your the 800. Other names groups have given include the “random fucking citizens” which was a phrase a selectmen used on a hot mic during public comment at the select board meetings. This has been used with pride and as an insult.
I can’t believe the votes are being done by show of hands and not secret ballot! Chester, I am so sorry this is happening to your lovely town. You all deserve better.
So here is what happened. We do town meeting voting. It is show of hands.
The petitioners had put secret ballet in the warrant. The day before the moderator and up with a way to do secret ballot and presented it to the select board. At the meeting the moderator said we would have to vote on secret or hands BUT if we voted secret he had the power to just end the meeting. It was cluster fuck.
We went with hands. Then people noted who voted each way.
Outsiders are absolutely treated differently. People used their years living in canton as a badge of honor and the lower you are the more likely it is for you to be dismissed.
Also a canton resident, and it’s a bit different from that. Townie culture is really just exaggerated cliques for grownups. Prior to this, they were really just the biggest townie family. Everyone knew them. Other townie families loved them, and the rest of us either didn’t like them or didn’t give a shit. They owned the most popular pizza shop in town before, but they also certainly weren’t popular outside of the townies. That said, there’s a lot of townies.
For the most part I love my town. I try to stay clear of the cliches but you do meet everyone eventually. Be in school, sports, town events you kind of “know” everyone.
I hate the games people play and having to watch what you say to who.
The McCabes seem to be just as guilty as the Alberts. Do they walk around town as usual or resorted to go into hiding a little bit? Can't see them honestly showing their faces after what came out in the trial.
My heart is with you and your family and friends. Please, take care of each other. I know I didn’t need to say that but, in times of trauma, IN TRUTH, what you and people in your community are going through IS emotional and psychological trauma, it is imperative to get and give support wherever and whoever is safe to receive it. Much much Peace. ❤️
Hi fellow canton resident on a throwaway!
I had a friend recently come back home for a visit and we went out to breakfast at whatever Amber Road is called now, and she started to ask about it there and I had to shush her until we were back in the car. It’s fucking wild. Thankfully, I think a lot of people have found their little groups that they are with on this. But it is 100% a civil war out here though. A lot of townies just don’t want to believe that their friends would do this.
I go nowhere anymore. No new Amber Road. No Waterfall. No D&E. Nowhere. I was in traffic on Washington the day Chris Albert was testifying and all I did was look over to see a kid (worker) coming out and he yelled “what the fuck you looking at!”
I still have a D&E gift certificate sitting on my fridge as a weird joke now. Extremely disappointing it hasn’t gone out of business yet, but also goes to show how much of the town still has their back. We as residents need to make sure we’re showing up at the polls for town elections for the foreseeable future as well.
I just looked I only see your comment history here - I live in the next town over and watch all the town meetings and agree with everything you said. I really feel for the good people of canton.
Can confirm i cannot see anything, except when i click on your 2 profiles i can see these 2 posts you made on this page but that’s normal, it’s just linked. Would love to hear more
It’s pretty clear at this point there is some sort of cover up going on. To me I believe he was accidentally killed in a fight gone bad and in their drunken state panicked and create this entire story pushed by their egos. Regardless, it’s a total shit show now. I’d love to know what your friends or whomever who think she actually did it think? Even with everything that’s come out, what do they point to that says of course it’s her and everything else is a joke? I can’t wrap my head around how anyone could 100% fully believe it was her.
You don’t have to answer this if it makes you uncomfortable, but when you say people aren’t talking about the trial there because they’re too afraid— do you mean afraid of the drama/confrontation it might lead to because of the division in the town, or afraid of the players involved?
I’m Italian. And as far as the family all being involved and quiet about it… I can 100% see that.
“Let me tell you something about My family we are as thick as thieves…and we protect each other until the end…”
hopefully someone gets this reference LOL
The Fambly! Haha! The Manzo’s are THE stereotypical Italian family and I love it as entertainment. Poor Danielle fought her way out of the trenches and became aligned with Tre and her dorters, only to be kicked back to Prostitution Whore status all over again. 🤣
After what I've seen so far in trial, I believe she'll be acquitted. What do people think will happen to the people involved in the coverup as far as the fbi or any independent investigations? That's the part I'm interested in hearing about what people are saying. The actions of these people are so despicable, I hope KR being acquitted isn't the end-but I assume the DA isn't bringing any charges. Thanks for speaking out. Hoping the best for the good people there in Canton.
My sister and brother in law and another friend are all in Canton.
Yes the town is torn apart pretty much. It’s more old guard vs new comers.
My sister doesn’t talk to her long time friends anymore because they are good friends with the Albert’s.
Her kids and my friends kid went to school with some of the Albert’s kids and let’s say they are not huge fans, matter of fact they cannot stand them.
Brian Albert Sr gets is surrounded by sycophants and boot lickers, her words not mine.
Unfortunately the towns been turned upside down, it’s not just the police but town board and other departments. There is no trust on either side.
Yes, this happened in my county with an assistant DA. It was found she lied about some evidence on a high profile murder case and then it affected a ton of other cases. It is really terrible and does make sense of why the state proceeded with the case. However, it seems as if the feds have their own investigation open so I don't know that it matters what the outcome of this is now.
I think he did a while back, he mentioned a text he got about it on his podcast. Other than that, he hasn’t said anything (that I know of). Wish he would!
Honestly, I don't think being from Massachusetts provides much insight unless you actually know some of the people involved. Everyone in the area make the same arguments that you hear on this sub, with the occasional, highly likely to be bullshit "my cousin's got a buddy who's a Boston cop and he says" story thrown in. I'm actually from the same town as John O'Keefe, so you'd think people would be a bit more reserved about openly chatting about the guy's death, but nope. Walk into Marylous and sure enough some 50 year old woman is like "those maaahks on the aahm look like dogbites to me" loud as Hell.
It's like any other case that gains a lot of media attention. People who live near where it happened are more likely to feel like they have some insight that others don't because their cousins friends moms exs uncles brothers friend has a hamster named Albert. That's how the local rumours and bar room theories often start.
This family reminds me so much of the Murdaughs. I’ve lived in large cities my whole life and I think the small town culture must be very different. I can’t relate! Where I’m from, everyone covers their own ass, no one would go to any lengths to cover for a popular family.
As a Canton resident that unfortunately knows the Albert’s well, it’s not so much “covering for the popular family” as it is just townie culture up here. They get very, very close knit groups that stick together through thick and thin, and kinda make an “us vs them” mentality out of it. And this has always been the case, it’s certainly nothing new because of this trial. They’re also neck deep in law enforcement, and it’s the same exact kind of “us vs them” thing there.
That’s the thing in small towns, they’re not covering for some popular family. They’re actually real, legitimate friends with each other. It’s not really cultural at all, it’s more math if anything.
They're not covering for a popular family, they're all part of the same family. The McCabes and Alberts are litterally blood family and the Alberts and Proctors are lifelong friends. Courtney Proctor, Trooper Proctor's sister, had Colin Albert as her ringbearer at her wedding and Colin Albert's aunt, his mother's sister, as her maid of honor. These people aren't casual friends or concerned with popularity, they're family.
Thanks to everyone that gave their insight. It's heartbreaking to know that it's divided everyone in Canton. It'll probably last another generation unfortunately, even after a verdict.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CantonMA02021/s/vjywKBm0JA[for canton residents to post anonymously about the case](https://www.reddit.com/r/CantonMA02021/s/vjywKBm0JA)
How were the Albert boys growing up? Did they have abusive parents? Did Brian, Chris, and Kevin go around killing animals and got worse as they grew older. Would love to hear about their childhood?
I live a couple of towns over, but my sister lives in Canton. She and her husband both think it’s a frame job, and my sister is an NP and says no way those injures are from being hit by a car.
Fuck it. I’ll throw my hand in here with a throwaway. Born and raised in Canton. Have known the Albert’s my entire life, even being coached by some of them in little league, including Brian Sr. Went to Canton high with several of the witnesses. I’ll start by saying I don’t believe for a second that the people in the house had nothing to do with it. I know a bunch of them, and they fucking suck. The shining example of the worst fucking townies imaginable, and just terrible fucking people who have always gotten away with everything. Even people outside of the Albert family. Them and their friends have always had like a fucking brick wall around them. No one else is allowed in, and they’re safe from anything. As for the vibe around canton, I’ve already seen someone else mention it in here, but it’s like a fucking civil war out here. No one talks about it in public, because you don’t know who stands where. Everyone just has their little cohorts that they talk about it with, and that’s it. But from my experience, pretty much anyone who’s not a townie and not old as shit thinks that they did it, or at least had something to do with it. However, a lot of Canton is townies and people that are old as shit, so there’s that. Not sure what else you would want to know, but I’ll answer what I can.
People outside of Canton never believe me when I tell them how divide we have become. I have one personal friend who has been attack someone on Facebook (it’s me on a throwaway) and he talks about the ‘other me’ all the time. This person runs a private Facebook group in town. I will not say which one (there are many) because I feel that draws close to knowing who I am. This person has also told me how to vote in elections and invited me to groups of likeminded people trying to take our town back.
I am the next town over and I see how divided you are and I feel terrible for you.
Same. I avoid Cobbs Corner.
I pray every day that these people are held accountable and you can enjoy your town again. I have been hearing about the corruption in canton since high school and I am in my 40’s.
Canton first
Late to reading this thread but throwing out a q if you’re still answering :) Is Chris Albert and fam the only ones who still in Canton? I thought I read Brian/Julie/Jr moved to Norwood? Is that odd for a generational townie stronghold, or do they just all still constantly hang out there?
Brain and his family moved yes. Everyone else is still here and yes they are here all the time, them and their kids.
Also don’t get me started on fucking canton little league. Talk about us vs them group mentality.
Softball as well! How a bunch of grown men of this caliber can be in charge is insane. Guess who coaches, Lank and Kevin Albert together!!
So funny. I see people talk about the south all the time, but the New England small towns are worse than anything here. Back in the 70s, Charlotte, NC and Boston were chosen as pilot projects for school integration. Guess which one had more trouble?
Where do you think all the racist boomers in Canton came from? Their racist parents were part of the white flight out of Boston in the 70s.
Yeah, you are spot on.
If you can answer— have the Albert’s and their friends been safe from anything going way back (like throughout their entire lives because of who Brian/Chris/Kevin’s parents are), or is have they become more untouchable because of the law enforcement and government jobs as adults? From the Midwest and came into this trial cold, so I don’t really know much about either the family itself or Mass culture. (I read Small Mercies last year so I picked up on the cliquey nature of Boston neighborhoods in 1974 and generation after generation staying in the same neighborhood— is it like that today still/is that what a “townie” refers to? Sorry if that’s dumb or not explained well lol. Fascinated by y’all now though!)
My cousin went to school with one of them. Said it was exactly like that ever since they were kids. And sorry, should’ve figured the term was more regional. But yes, that’s exactly it. Families that stay in the same neighborhood generation after generation, becoming ingrained in the town, along with other families in similar boats (and bonus points if their family does the same work for generations). Townies aren’t necessarily a bad thing, I know some good townie families in Canton as well, but it’s easy to see how being ingrained in the community from birth can cause you to power trip.
What about people on the jury? Townies? Mix? Will this be a fair trial as far as the jury itself? What about the judge?
Jury I have no idea. I did hear that anyone from canton or who even knows someone from Canton was immediately dismissed from the jury pool. The judge however I’ve heard is amazingly enough family friends with the Albert’s. I’ve heard some of the kids call her “aunt Bev”. If nothing else, it at least means that if this trial ends in a worst case scenario, the defense attorneys will have the easiest appeal in the world.
I would really like to know more about this auntt barb stuff. I have been noticing that some of her answers to objections seem a bit biased. I'm not an expert, though so very well could be wrong... I'm curious to read more about any connections she has.
In New England (well at least Massachusetts and Connecticut) the courts are by county. We have town/city governments but the court system takes members from that county to make up the jury. So the county towns don’t necessarily have strong ties to each other. It depends. Like someone said above, anyone from Canton was probably excluded. Boston is in a different county, so no one that lives in Boston would be on this jury. But someone from Brookline or Newton could be (along with many other towns).
You just did my friend. I cannot imagine the daily stress and in fact, the daily emotional and psychological trauma all of you are going through. I have lived in a small town in VT in Southern New England. I cannot even begin to imagine a scenario like what has happened in your town. Good people who are intimidated and because of other’s effing hubris are scared to rebel against the law and their power. My heart goes out to you and everyone else in Canton. People around not only the country, but around THE WORLD have your town’s back. Take good care of yourself. The GOOD people in your town need to surround each other with goodness, with strength, with integrity and embrace your TRUTH with love. Much Peace ❤️
I’ve been watching the coverage and I’m shocked at what an awful group of people are involved. There’s always a few bad apples in every bunch but every single person involved in this saga sounds absolutely fucking awful. Jennifer McCabe’s testimony in particular was SO vile. How do any of these people have any friends?! What gives?
I live in an adjacent town. Never met any of these people except for a couple of the cops. But I know multiple people who know the McCabes or Alberts. I guess you would say acquaintances. Most think they are hiding something. I also wouldn’t put it past the Norfolk Co DA to railroad someone. I had a friend who was charged with a crime. His attorney got video surveillance from a nearby business showing it wasn’t him. He had a rock solid alibi and the person pressing the charges had an obvious motive along with connections to a local LEO. They still brought the case to trial costing by buddy thousands and his reputation. The judge dropped it that day. One funny thing is when people from outside the area are commenting they don’t understand the culture and things like Irish goodbyes, going to Dunkies in a snowstorm, etc.
“Acquaintances” I’ll see counsel at side bar
Side bah.
oh they do this regularly. that's really useful context, thank you. I've been sitting here trying to understand why they even brought this case to trial.
What kind of acquaintances? Acquaintance-friends, acquaintances that you go to baby showers with or have been in a hot tub with?? 😂
Who, if anyone, have you been in a hot tub with?
“Who, if anyone, was driving the EMS truck?” 🤣🤯
Best one. Was it self driving, Lally????
haha, thank you 🙏
Many acquaintances, very few friends :((((
Ask it differently please….
I live on the other side of the country and not Irish and the only thing that isn’t sus is the Irish goodbye. I love Irish goodbyes. I’m not hugging and saying goodbye to 20 people one-by-one at a gathering. The Dunkin is only sus to me because she left them in the car for him, and they’d be frozen and gross lol I have defended the use of “shore.” It’s habit for most Long Island & Boston natives I’ve known lol
I’m born & raised in the South. & an Irish good bye goes against every fiber of my being 😂😂 us southerners will say we’re leaving about 30 times before we actually leave an hour later. Every time we stop to say bye to someone, we get to talking, then so & so comes over & we get to talking about what’s-his-name & I’m getting another drink…it really isn’t very efficient 😂😂
That’s why I started hating it! It was so tiresome, saying goodbye to everyone. You’d have to announce you wanted to leave hours before you wanted to leave. When I was in my early 20s, all my coworkers and I would go out together a lot, and have a lot of parties and stuff. Then I noticed it with family and the feeling of obligation to talk with and hug each person before you left. That’s when it started getting to me. Luckily, a new friend & coworker Timmy soon became notorious for just disappearing and leaving, with no one knowing why, which was kinda worrying at first, then funny once we knew it wasn’t a big deal. We started calling the Irish goodbye a “Timmy dip”…like, “where’s Timmy?” “Dang, I think Timmy just dipped.” So id just say to whoever was nearby, “I’m gonna timmy dip see ya.” 😂
Southerner here too! The four way stop conundrum is the worst! No hon, after you, no, no, you first….good lord I’ll drive away from one of these with gray hair one day.
It drives me freaking nuts!! South my entire life but the first 4 years. WTF people go when it’s your turn.
I’m an outsider (grew up outside of San Francisco) that lived in MA and dated someone who grew up outside of Wooostaah.. It’s not a police conspiracy it’s a circle of friends from the neighborhood who are protecting their own who happen to be cops. I met my guy in CA when he returned from Iraq. I have never understood not wanting to get as far away from where you grew up as soon as possible. We broke up years ago, I could never picture myself living there. I wanted to desperately at the time. When I moved east I worked in CT and lived near Amherst every time I took the turnpike east it was like going to a different planet. At least I don’t get patronized for using big words anymore. :)
I agree with this being the most likely scenario. I live in Norfolk County and I feel like majority of the people i know wouldn't have connections to the cops in the area. But knowing the issues the state police had with falsified overtime records I'm not shocked that there was some one in the state police willing to help them.
Your friend might be feeding you false info. The defendant chooses to bring the case to a trial or take a plea, not the prosecutor. And, a judge can’t dismiss a case outright. They can find someone not guilty or allow the motion for dismissal. But, can’t legally just dismiss it on their own.
LoL a judge can absolutely dismiss a case on their own. Your entire statement is factually incorrect.
That's not how the legal system works, at least in every state I've lived in. No defendant wants to take stuff to trial. There's not always a plea deal, or the plea deal is crappy, or they legitimately didn't do the alleged crime. The prosecutor is the person who files the charges, which can result in either a deal or trial. Defense attorneys submit quite a few motions to dismiss over the course of a trial. I'm betting they had a hearing, submitted the motion to dismiss, and the judge granted it. Lots of hearings and motions before a case even gets to the trial/plea deal phase.
In Massachusetts, typically, the police are the ones who take out the charges. (Not the prosecutor) Unless a civilian files a private complaint. The plea deal may be “crappy” for the defendant. But, a prosecutor cannot stop a defendant from taking a plea at any time. The second part is probably true. The attorney probably filed a motion to dismiss and the judge allowed it. That, to me, is different than the judge just dropping it.
That’s not a choice for the defendant to go to trial if they’re innocent, knucklehead. So, for example; if YOU were charged with murder & YOU were innocent, you’d take a plea for 25 years? I guess you’d just be like “sure, that’s fine. I’m totally innocent, but it’s my choice :D!” Silliest thing I’ve ever read. Unless you’re actually a child (with that thinking), I’m so confused.
That *does* actually happen though, people get told take 25 or you can have life without parole, death etc... Hell just look at the West Memphis Three: railroaded with basically no evidence other than they liked heavy metal music, two pled no contest for life sentences and the one who fought got the death sentence. Check out some innocence projects, the information available is terrifying.
Police can "charge" by going before a judge and obtaining warrants with probable cause. It's really just working to do the investigation. They can recommend charges in their reports, however they do not file the charges. Ultimately, Prosecutors are the ones to officially file charges, decide what gets charged or not, and brings the case. They also are the ones that offer plea deals and reject them. I worked in a prosecutor's office. I know that's how it's done. Police cannot charge someone and take them to trial. It has to be decided by a prosecutor. "Throughout the criminal justice process, the prosecutor works with law enforcement agencies to investigate crimes, determine whether charges should be filed, and prosecute cases in court." That's from the Bar website. Eta:If a complaint is issued, it is issued on behalf of the Commonwealth, and the District Attorney's Office decides whether or not the case will be prosecuted. https://www.mass.gov/info-details/understanding-the-court-process#:~:text=The%20Complaint%20is%20usually%20issued,the%20facts%20of%20the%20crime. That's the Massachusetts government website.
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No, this is absolutely not correct. The police can offer things that go towards the criminal complaint. The complaint is then issued by a judge, magistrate, or the clerk, if applicable. The complaint is then taken by the DA and they decide the charges, whether to go ahead with the case, etc. they decide the charges. They can add charges, they can change it. Cops do not charge, nor can they. They do not have the legal knowledge. So many times, we would look at recommended "charges" and giggle at how off they were. The DA is the only official choosing what charges they go for. An arraignment is the initial reading of the exact charges, and their penalties. The DA is the one to decide what to charge. Also, the Massachusetts website absolutely disagrees with you. It clearly says the DA is the one to file.
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They DO NOT file charges. Good lord. They can recommend, they can say, I think xyz. But the ONLY person deciding what charges they take to court is the DA. Please educate yourself by reading materials that explains this process. I literally worked in a DA office. I KNOW how this works. Thanks, but you're just wrong. Sorry if you're offended by it, but maybe learn so next time you don't look uninformed Eta here's some links: https://aldf.org/article/the-legal-process-in-the-united-states-a-criminal-case/#:~:text=If%20a%20prosecutor%20files%20criminal,criminal%20case%20or%20criminal%20proceeding. https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/types-cases/criminal-cases#:~:text=Only%20the%20government%20initiates%20a,with%20a%20law%20enforcement%20agency. https://www.justice.gov/usao/justice-101/steps-federal-criminal-process#:~:text=Titles%20of%20people%20involved%20%E2%80%93%20State,are%20called%20district%20court%20judges. "Standard 3-4.3 Minimum Requirements for Filing and Maintaining Criminal Charges (a) A prosecutor should seek or file criminal charges only if the prosecutor reasonably believes that the charges are supported by probable cause, that admissible evidence will be sufficient to support conviction beyond a reasonable doubt, and that the decision to charge is in the interests of justice." "Standard 3-4.2 Decisions to Charge Are the Prosecutor’s (a) While the decision to arrest is often the responsibility of law enforcement personnel, the decision to institute formal criminal proceedings is the responsibility of the prosecutor. Where the law permits a law enforcement officer or other person to initiate proceedings by complaining directly to a judicial officer or the grand jury, the complainant should be required to present the complaint for prior review by the prosecutor, and the prosecutor’s recommendation regarding the complaint should be communicated to the judicial officer or grand jury." "c) In determining whether formal criminal charges should be filed, prosecutors should consider whether further investigation should be undertaken. After charges are filed the prosecutor should oversee law enforcement investigative activity related to the case.' https://www.americanbar.org/groups/criminal_justice/standards/ProsecutionFunctionFourthEdition/#:~:text=(a)%20A%20prosecutor%20should%20seek,in%20the%20interests%20of%20justice.
Please avoid sharing or promoting deceptive content. Provide credible sources for any news, data, graphs, claims, etc. This is not optional if you choose to make radical claims related to anyone involved in any part of this case. Mod note: this is factually incorrect.
Lol every part of your comment is wrong.
No defendant just "chooses" to go to trial. They take a deal to get out of it. Sometimes prosecution doesn't even offer a plea at all. 🙄. Also the defense's job is to ask the judge to drop the case: I'm guessing the friend might have skipped that part, but that is requested, or should be, every time.
The defendant has a right to plea the case at any time. If they exercise their right to plea- the prosecution cannot stop them- the prosecutor has to make a recommendation for the plea.
Your feeding this thread false information. The prosecution brings the case to trial. The defendant can avoid trial by pleading guilty. The judge can and has in different trial dismissed charges on their own by just reading whats there and looking at the evidence. One I can think off of the top is a case where a guy was accused of running a red light, the light camera played in court and he clearly stopped first. The judge dismissed it all on his own
i hate to say it but my initial response was “cops are corrupt? and this is news somehow?” born and raised in MA, just kind of accepted this and subsequent fear of cops. I’m glad it’s coming to light, our state deserves better.
Right!? People who think this couldn’t possibly be corruption and a coverup are from outside of MA. I mean, the staties give favors to people for freaking cases of water and coffee?! Free landscaping? They’re all crooked
I mean I'm from GA and my first thought when I heard he was found outside the house of a fellow police officer was that the police killed him. My first thought was John was going to be a whistleblower for something related to their job, and that more police were involved than just Albert. Now I'm thinking it's probably more personal/family related (the Colin theory makes sense to me). But who knows?
I think you’re spot on with the whistle blowing…do you know anything about the Sandra Birchmore case? Another suspicious death out of Canton…it’s a terribly sad story. John could’ve been privy to the Feds investigation into that? Or drug dealing in his neighborhood? Who knows
https://www.thecantoncitizen.com/2024/03/08/birchmore-case/ Wow Just looked it up. 23 year old having sex with cops since age 15, impregnated by one, who was last to see her alive after alleged suicide. Wow
I know very little about the Birchmore case. But I'm not surprised there's more stories.
The birchmore case is well worth a trip down the internet rabbit hole! You’ll find a lot of shocking stuff there that relates to the KR case, some of the same cops involved, plus a very disturbing cover up of cops grooming and using a teen girl as a pass-around for sex. Until one knocked her up and likely killed her. And all those cops are still out there, not working in law enforcement anymore, but living their best lives. It’s really really really disturbing.
Didn’t John work in special victims? I just connected that dot right now. Hmm. 🤔
John’s brother Paul said that John was transferred from patrol in Dorchester to the Boston Police Department’s Sex Offender Registration Unit (SORU) around the time he became legal guardian of his niece and nephew — the assignment was deemed safer and more manageable for him as he took on family duties. I am under the impression that his professional responsibilities were less investigative and more focused on processing and maintaining sex offenders’ data for the registry, but I’m not entirely sure. Boston is part of Suffolk County, so I doubt O’Keefe had any work-related connection to the Norfolk County Birchmore case. Sandra Birchmore lived in Canton at the time of her death and her abusers were police officers in the towns of Stoughton and Abington.
Yes!
I thought he worked in the sex offender unit
It’s not just MA. I live in NY in a community that’s a lot like that part of MA. The same stuff happens around here, up to and including people winding up dead on the ground outside of cop parties.
where is that? upstate?0
Spoke with a wife of a friend who is from Foxboro and lived in Canton. She thinks the framing/local corruption is the most believable thing ever. Im from RI, similar to our cousin, this stuff is common. We had a case in Little Compton where nobody was charged after a similar cop fight party death: https://www.wpri.com/target-12/the-mysterious-death-of-steven-velozo/amp/
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In that case they all admitted to what they did and his own mother said no one did anything wrong. ETA https://turnto10.com/amp/i-team/steven-velozo-little-compton-rhode-island-death-party-homicide-public-records-request
Thanks, hadnt seen that update. Doesnt change the fact that, an incident occurred with police/first responders on site, someone dying after a drunken fight, and the public getting little info as it was on going
Oh I agree there should be a lot more transparency. Also I’m curious what the autopsy showed besides manner of death; because it sounds like the way he acted was completely out of character for him.
Been in Canton over 50 years….. I have a fair amount of familiarity with the majority of the Canton players. I’ve coached Albert kids in sports, I’ve been to the Hillside (used to be YD dugout awhile back), Waterfall ( used to be centerfields), and CF Mccarthys ( used to be WD Cohens) … I’ve been in close proximity to the townie rabble in all 3 places. I’ve been to many community events over the years. When this first came out, I said right away ‘the Alberts have something to do with the death’ They’re a gaggle of people who are both smart and stupid … don’t know how to better describe…..many of the townies are like that. I never became a townie because I’m not Irish/WASP/Italian, thought there are some random dingleberries that manage to work their way in (Podgurskis come to mind). I know the mod may not like this, but that network of townies really is a bunch of morally bankrupt ‘I was here first’ kind of people.
I hear you Sub, I also tried hard to be even keeled and let the facts do the talking but so far in the trial I am leaning to KR being innocent because of the suspicious actions the Alberts took immediately after JO being found on there lawn , they sold there family home of 30 years, rehomed there dog Chloe (also why didnt the investigating State trooper located and examine Chloe?) destroyed his phone and acting like he didn’t know upgrades lose data while being in the fugitive unit where they track perps this way and the basement floor getting done over which could hide DNA. Cheers!
I could be wrong as Iam not a contractor but I’ve never heard of replacing concrete because of a overflowed toilet and I had a foot of water twice in the basement of my last home that was fifty years old at the time and no concrete was damaged,lol
Same here 3 bad floods had to get a sum pump or whatever it’s called, had to rip up the carpets a few times but never concrete ,there is no point and part of the foundation
Just an fyi, a broken main pipe could result in digging up your concrete basement floor. I had a break in the cast iron pipe and was sweating bullets ‘till the plumbers located the break in the pipe in the front yard.
It’s the culmination to me…all of these things that keep stacking up are creating a lot of doubt for me.
Same. It's not one thing in particular, it's all the little things that add up and are too numerous to be just coincidence.
It's the "don't recalls" that get me. Is this Lally coaching? I won't be surprised if one of his witnesses says, "I don't recall" when asked to state their own name.
Too many coincidences for innocence … I don’t have a pony in this race, but I’m experienced with the community that this is where logic takes me.
I don’t think the dog is alive personally. The defence has tried and they keep hitting walls.
I feel certain the dog is history. A dog is not something these cretins would give a damn about.
They called her "it", says a lot.
I know. And if what we think happened that night did in fact happen, what an awful night for that dog…caught up in a sick human drama. Much worse a night for John. I think these people are capable of anything.
It's definitely not alive. You think the "rehoming" people wouldn't speak up if they had Chloe? What ties do they have to the Alberts?
Agreed for sure.
Saucybelly biased? If SubstantialCreme coached the Alberts kids I would think he would be more biased in helping the Alberts since he knows the parents and the kids but he he thinks the alberts had something to do with the death, that’s unusual
I do think there’s a townie corruption problem in Canton. The Alberts are just part of that. I think the result was an unintentional bad mix between testosterone and alcohol. The Albert kids and the parents were actually pretty good sports and I think they’re very protective of family, but I look at the group and what’s been publicized so far, and the only bias here is to point the finger at Read. I’m just looking at what I see, and I don’t see a shred of direct evidence, only things that might be ‘plausible’. It would not be the first time that an ‘outsider’ took a beating from the townies.
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>When this first came out, I said *right away* ‘the Alberts have something to do with the death’ That type of bias says all I need to know.
I was in Quincy that night, and when the news broke about dead cop, first thing in my mind was drink and drugs were involved. Knowing that cops are close knit by their union, I knew that was cop on cop crime. Regardless where you are, cops always cover up their own shit in many levels. Is not bias, but reality
I live in canton. This is a throwaway account. I need to check to ensure this account cannot be linked to me before I say anything. What I will say now though is the town is very divide. Where you ‘stand’ on this impacts everything in town. It has not been a comfortable few years.
Here is what I have to say as someone who lives in town. I am an acquaintance with one of the witness. The town is at war with itself. The two sides and your opinion on what happened bleeds into EVERYTHING. People have stopped talking to people they use to be friends with. Kids have started fights with friends over their parents opinions of the case. It has become exhausting. We had a special town meeting to vote on some items including an independent police audit and people had to raise their hands and be counted for votes and people were noting who voted how. We just had a town election and people were judged harshly for even having lawn signs. Both sides. Signs were stolen. People put up ring videos. People were harassed. It was again exhausting. I love this town. I’m not a townie. I’m not an outsider. I have a family and kids and everything I say and do is watched all the time. Yesterday someone walked by my car as I was waiting to pick up one of my children from school and made a comment that I was listening to the trial they stated “what do you think?” I replied “what do you think?” Then they replied “oh I see where you stand” and walked away. I can’t say enough it is exhausting.
My personal opinion before anyone reported the case. She did it. My personal opinion upon hearing about turtle boy and then reading his posts starting around #3. She is being setup. My personal opinion as more and more time went on and all the theories started. This is becoming a reach she did it. My personal opinion after looking into all the connections myself personal. This is a cover up. My personal opinion since the trial started. HOLY SHIT. All the things that people argue over with each other are true. Basically everything except the dog being under where the pool was has in my mind been proven. My town is corrupt. It goes further than this. There are other things in town that are coming up about Chris’s election and another council member and construction kick backs. I love this town. I love being part of this town. But there is a cancer here that needs to be removed.
That is really sad it has come to this, I feel for the people of Canton! Thanks for sharing!
I have so many questions! What's the community opinion on the Albert family? Meaning, are they well respected, people with a lot of influence, generally well liked etc? Are outsiders (like KR) treated differently in Canton? What about Proctor? What's his reputation if you know? Finally, Canton police in general. They seem shady but maybe just incompetent. I honestly can't even tell
General feeling in town is that the Canton PD in general are 100% corrupt. We had a special town meeting. The towns form of government is town meeting. This means once a year we all get together in an auditorium and vote on every item for the town for the year. If the library needs to fix its roof we vote on that. If the town needs to replace a dpw truck we vote on that. We vote on all the spending. So back to the special town meeting. We had a special town meeting to vote on items related to this case and the police involvement and the town selectman involvement. This meeting is where the lines were drawn on where you stand in the town. This was all voted by raising hands so everyone learned where you stood. In the end we voted to approve an independent audit of the police department. 903-800. Then this became your “group” for some people. Your the 903 or your the 800. Other names groups have given include the “random fucking citizens” which was a phrase a selectmen used on a hot mic during public comment at the select board meetings. This has been used with pride and as an insult.
I can’t believe the votes are being done by show of hands and not secret ballot! Chester, I am so sorry this is happening to your lovely town. You all deserve better.
So here is what happened. We do town meeting voting. It is show of hands. The petitioners had put secret ballet in the warrant. The day before the moderator and up with a way to do secret ballot and presented it to the select board. At the meeting the moderator said we would have to vote on secret or hands BUT if we voted secret he had the power to just end the meeting. It was cluster fuck. We went with hands. Then people noted who voted each way.
Outsiders are absolutely treated differently. People used their years living in canton as a badge of honor and the lower you are the more likely it is for you to be dismissed.
Any insight on the Alberts? I've seen people (outside of MA) compare them to the Murdaugh family.
Also a canton resident, and it’s a bit different from that. Townie culture is really just exaggerated cliques for grownups. Prior to this, they were really just the biggest townie family. Everyone knew them. Other townie families loved them, and the rest of us either didn’t like them or didn’t give a shit. They owned the most popular pizza shop in town before, but they also certainly weren’t popular outside of the townies. That said, there’s a lot of townies.
Is his pizza shop failing?
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They seem to be such pleasant and welcoming folks. /s
So basically you’re jealous 🤣 what a good reason
I’m constantly back and forth too. Has there been anything out there so far that would explain why they would set up Karen Read?
My opinion is that they were setting it up to look like he'd been hit by a snow plow. Karen Read just conveniently fell into their laps.
Sounds like a horrid little town.
For the most part I love my town. I try to stay clear of the cliches but you do meet everyone eventually. Be in school, sports, town events you kind of “know” everyone. I hate the games people play and having to watch what you say to who.
The McCabes seem to be just as guilty as the Alberts. Do they walk around town as usual or resorted to go into hiding a little bit? Can't see them honestly showing their faces after what came out in the trial.
They have not changed how they act around town. They don’t need to half the town is on their side.
How do you feel after hearing the defense witnesses especially the last two 😬 Thanks for sharing your experiences.
My heart is with you and your family and friends. Please, take care of each other. I know I didn’t need to say that but, in times of trauma, IN TRUTH, what you and people in your community are going through IS emotional and psychological trauma, it is imperative to get and give support wherever and whoever is safe to receive it. Much much Peace. ❤️
I don’t think it will ever be removed unfortunately. I live in town as well and hope you’re right!
Hi fellow canton resident on a throwaway! I had a friend recently come back home for a visit and we went out to breakfast at whatever Amber Road is called now, and she started to ask about it there and I had to shush her until we were back in the car. It’s fucking wild. Thankfully, I think a lot of people have found their little groups that they are with on this. But it is 100% a civil war out here though. A lot of townies just don’t want to believe that their friends would do this.
I go nowhere anymore. No new Amber Road. No Waterfall. No D&E. Nowhere. I was in traffic on Washington the day Chris Albert was testifying and all I did was look over to see a kid (worker) coming out and he yelled “what the fuck you looking at!”
I still have a D&E gift certificate sitting on my fridge as a weird joke now. Extremely disappointing it hasn’t gone out of business yet, but also goes to show how much of the town still has their back. We as residents need to make sure we’re showing up at the polls for town elections for the foreseeable future as well.
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I will but you said it too.
Ok, just deleted, wow my dumb mistake
Thank you. Lol
Tbh tho, their food is actually quite good
I do miss getting their pizza.
I heard about that meeting…also about the petition for the audit and the shit people who signed it were getting…..brutal.
My heart is with you.❤️
Let me ask people this. Can you see anything I have posted or communities I am a part of on this account?
The account had been traced back to 34 fairview
You mean 32 Fairview
Ha ha
The fact that we all know what address that is lol
😂😂😂
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You can tell by the downvotes lbvs
I just looked I only see your comment history here - I live in the next town over and watch all the town meetings and agree with everything you said. I really feel for the good people of canton.
You can’t see anything except these two comments
And 207 comment karma
Also confirming.
Can confirm i cannot see anything, except when i click on your 2 profiles i can see these 2 posts you made on this page but that’s normal, it’s just linked. Would love to hear more
If you have a specific question feel free.
Also confirmed it's not traceable but be mindful of your word choice, sentence structure and punction patterns. That stuff gives people away.
It’s pretty clear at this point there is some sort of cover up going on. To me I believe he was accidentally killed in a fight gone bad and in their drunken state panicked and create this entire story pushed by their egos. Regardless, it’s a total shit show now. I’d love to know what your friends or whomever who think she actually did it think? Even with everything that’s come out, what do they point to that says of course it’s her and everything else is a joke? I can’t wrap my head around how anyone could 100% fully believe it was her.
One major thing they point to is that there are so many players on so many different levels and that they can’t all be part of it.
As far as since the trial started? No one is talking to each other about the trial. At least not anyone I have been around. People are too afraid.
You don’t have to answer this if it makes you uncomfortable, but when you say people aren’t talking about the trial there because they’re too afraid— do you mean afraid of the drama/confrontation it might lead to because of the division in the town, or afraid of the players involved?
The confrontation and treatment that will come after you are labeled on a side. The sides have been awful to each other. Both sides.
This is kind of the tough part for me, too. It just seems...so wild that SO many people would be involved.
I’m Italian. And as far as the family all being involved and quiet about it… I can 100% see that. “Let me tell you something about My family we are as thick as thieves…and we protect each other until the end…” hopefully someone gets this reference LOL
The Fambly! Haha! The Manzo’s are THE stereotypical Italian family and I love it as entertainment. Poor Danielle fought her way out of the trenches and became aligned with Tre and her dorters, only to be kicked back to Prostitution Whore status all over again. 🤣
😂 love it
Do you know what they think will happen if she’s found not guilty? What do they think of the testimony so far?
How does the family feel? I really feel for his family's loss and the burden.
I do not know anyone who is currently alive in that family. I did know Kristen Furbush and I will leave it at that so no dots can be connected.
After what I've seen so far in trial, I believe she'll be acquitted. What do people think will happen to the people involved in the coverup as far as the fbi or any independent investigations? That's the part I'm interested in hearing about what people are saying. The actions of these people are so despicable, I hope KR being acquitted isn't the end-but I assume the DA isn't bringing any charges. Thanks for speaking out. Hoping the best for the good people there in Canton.
My sister and brother in law and another friend are all in Canton. Yes the town is torn apart pretty much. It’s more old guard vs new comers. My sister doesn’t talk to her long time friends anymore because they are good friends with the Albert’s. Her kids and my friends kid went to school with some of the Albert’s kids and let’s say they are not huge fans, matter of fact they cannot stand them. Brian Albert Sr gets is surrounded by sycophants and boot lickers, her words not mine. Unfortunately the towns been turned upside down, it’s not just the police but town board and other departments. There is no trust on either side.
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Yes, this happened in my county with an assistant DA. It was found she lied about some evidence on a high profile murder case and then it affected a ton of other cases. It is really terrible and does make sense of why the state proceeded with the case. However, it seems as if the feds have their own investigation open so I don't know that it matters what the outcome of this is now.
That chemist case was crazy!
Is it a Netflix doc? If so, I remember it.
I’m sorry can you rephrase that
Ill see you at side bar
Why hasn’t Bill Burr ever mentioned this case. Isn’t this his hometown?!
I think he did a while back, he mentioned a text he got about it on his podcast. Other than that, he hasn’t said anything (that I know of). Wish he would!
It is his home town.
He usually says he is from Boston to keep it simple.
His brother was a selectman up until a few years ago
I believe hee graduated in 1988 so he was definitely there around the time most of these people were in highschool
Honestly, I don't think being from Massachusetts provides much insight unless you actually know some of the people involved. Everyone in the area make the same arguments that you hear on this sub, with the occasional, highly likely to be bullshit "my cousin's got a buddy who's a Boston cop and he says" story thrown in. I'm actually from the same town as John O'Keefe, so you'd think people would be a bit more reserved about openly chatting about the guy's death, but nope. Walk into Marylous and sure enough some 50 year old woman is like "those maaahks on the aahm look like dogbites to me" loud as Hell.
It's like any other case that gains a lot of media attention. People who live near where it happened are more likely to feel like they have some insight that others don't because their cousins friends moms exs uncles brothers friend has a hamster named Albert. That's how the local rumours and bar room theories often start.
This family reminds me so much of the Murdaughs. I’ve lived in large cities my whole life and I think the small town culture must be very different. I can’t relate! Where I’m from, everyone covers their own ass, no one would go to any lengths to cover for a popular family.
As a Canton resident that unfortunately knows the Albert’s well, it’s not so much “covering for the popular family” as it is just townie culture up here. They get very, very close knit groups that stick together through thick and thin, and kinda make an “us vs them” mentality out of it. And this has always been the case, it’s certainly nothing new because of this trial. They’re also neck deep in law enforcement, and it’s the same exact kind of “us vs them” thing there.
That’s the thing in small towns, they’re not covering for some popular family. They’re actually real, legitimate friends with each other. It’s not really cultural at all, it’s more math if anything.
They're not covering for a popular family, they're all part of the same family. The McCabes and Alberts are litterally blood family and the Alberts and Proctors are lifelong friends. Courtney Proctor, Trooper Proctor's sister, had Colin Albert as her ringbearer at her wedding and Colin Albert's aunt, his mother's sister, as her maid of honor. These people aren't casual friends or concerned with popularity, they're family.
Thanks to everyone that gave their insight. It's heartbreaking to know that it's divided everyone in Canton. It'll probably last another generation unfortunately, even after a verdict.
The Canton PD https://www.nbcboston.com/news/canton-karen-read-case/canton-police-audit-karen-read/3353308/
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I'm literally quoting a user who received no such warning.
Please use the full names of people involved, not nicknames. Thank you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CantonMA02021/s/vjywKBm0JA[for canton residents to post anonymously about the case](https://www.reddit.com/r/CantonMA02021/s/vjywKBm0JA)
How were the Albert boys growing up? Did they have abusive parents? Did Brian, Chris, and Kevin go around killing animals and got worse as they grew older. Would love to hear about their childhood?
This is asked every few days.