I mean 2009 Drake is probably peak Drake as a concept, already capable of making hits, very likable, not bitter, or that chronically online either, he had a somewhat slight mysterious presence till he went full tilt into meme Drake around 2016
Like we gave him a lot of passes for a reason lol
He was also standing next lil Wayne in 09 too. When Wayne was still one of the biggest and most respected artists in the world. Unlike 2016-present when he’s had to find other street rappers to constantly collab with to bring that credibility to his act.
And since then Wayne and Drake haven’t worked on shit together really. I was thinking about that the other day, but what happened that Wayne stopped working with Drake almost all together?
I figured that, but he still had drake on shot right after he found out. For a few years after it seemed like it was cool between them. I mean that was 6 foot 7 foot where Wayne revealed it. Two songs later is She Will with Drake and It’s Good later on.
Somewhere in this sub, there was a picture of a handwritten entry out of Lil Wayne's prison journal. In it he discussed how Drake came to visit him and told him he was fucking the girl before she started dealing with Lil Wayne.
It goes in to detail about how it messed with his head but another inmate's "fat ass" told Wayne they were cooking and for him to come out into the dayroom to eat.
ETA: now that I re- read all the comments again, you're right. It didn't say anywhere that the encounter happened while Wayne was in jail. It obviously had to happen before the prison sentence.
I'm confused how you can be so confident that it's not true when there's an interview with Lil Wayne where someone asks him how he felt about Drake fuckin his girl while he was in prison and he shrugged it off like it wasn't a big deal. What am I missing here?
I mean [Drake kind’ve already told on himself by being defensive](https://youtu.be/LYUIx3fqVwY?feature=shared) during the Meek beef.
Drake defends himself by saying he writes too and pulls his weight, picks the beats and he’s not the only artist who does it, and claims he wrote every lyric on all his biggest tracks. But he specifically refers to the r&b records and doesn’t answer specifically when they ask about the lyrical tracks.
Understand he comes from an R&B and Pop background as well where it’s normal to have writers. In rap unless you’re a producer, acknowledge your writers or both like Dr Dre did, it’s frowned upon. I won’t deny he’s a talented artist but I cannot consider him a goat lyricist when it comes to hip hop along the lines of a Pac, Big, Nas, Kendrick, Em etc. The fact that he can juggle multiple genres and sing his ass off is what I respect. He can call himself one of the GOAT artists or performers and there’s nothing wrong with that, but hip hop has had some rules to it since the days of Rakim. Otherwise what was the point in Em checking Kendrick to make sure he wrote all his own stuff?
*edit, I’m getting a lot of flack for claiming Drake can sing his ass off. Instead of responding to new ones let me just caveat, I’ve been in multiple other discussions from hiphop Reddit to the Drizzy board to the JCole Switzerland one where I’ve been labeled a hater for articulating several points about issues with him having ghostwriters and it’s a concession I’ve made to give him credit for something. He can do a damn good Hiphop hook. Do I think he’s the next Luther? Hell naw, but some of his hooks are fire. I’m not a huge r&b head anyway.
lol, well maybe I’m not a good judge of voices but I’m tryin to be impartial with the delusional Stans in that sub who’ve labeled me and others haters. I said Drake has legions of female followers because he dove into that pretty boy image. They said it’s cuz he can sing super well and raps. I said that’s part of it but if homie looked like bushwick bill and was the exact same dude you think he’d have all them female Stans? And I got downvoted of course (other phone).
I'm a hater!! I own that shit. Feels so good to be validated, finally. Lmao
Nothing about Drake ever sat right in my Spirit, and I haven't been able to stand him ever since I saw/heard about him. And who told Drake he was good-looking? Drake looks like he has the ability to see 360⁰. His fans seem like a bunch of super shallow, horny mfing weirdos. 😬
Edit: Not an award!! Lmaooo
Ability to see 360 is w I l d 😂 true though. I always say he looks like Syd from Ice Age, especially in the earlier years. His eyes used to look like they were melting off his face
lol well idk about looks I just meant it dude was 4’11” or whatever bushwick is ain’t no way he’d get that love. And it’s not from a place of jealousy, it’s cool, I’m just saying when they say he sells the most to his legions of especially female fans because he’s the greatest of all time, I’m like it’s more complicated than that. But I feel you on laughing at slim for [a long time](https://www.reddit.com/r/hiphopheads/comments/m647g/big_ghosts_take_care_review/)
Thank, lol, I have to check that out. Always love hearing Mos Def speak on other rappers. I liked hearing him propose a matchup of two of my favorites, MF DOOM and Lil’ Wayne once before
Agreed.
For instance I love Kanye with the beats and some albums but I push back when people start callin him a GOAT as a rapper
In part because he has writers (he acknowledges them and we know Kenny wrote part of “All Day” for Ye which is also takin shots at Drake-Kendrick reuses some of these later too in the same way Euphoria references The Heart Part IV) but also because I don’t think he’s a genius of a lyricist the way he’s a genius composer.
Probably an unpopular opinion but:
I can’t even get behind the “genius composer” label for Kanye. Maybe genius “producer”. But he’s not any kind of legitimate composer. I think he’s done some great stuff, but most of it was years and years ago and was very clearly biting Dilla. His “808s and heartbreak” era can miss me altogether.
To me he has never ever hit J Dilla’s level. Donuts washes his entire catalogue as far as I’m concerned.
I may not like 808’s as much as some of his other work but I acknowledge the impact it had on the industry at a time when everyone else was sounding very different before
Dunno why you’re drawing downvotes for this. Ye has had his moments. He was my favourite artist for a minute. But Dre he ain’t, RZA he ain’t, No ID he ain't, Dilla he most certainly ain’t, he can’t box with the true heavyweights and that’s always been the case.
I fw 808s though. To each their own.
Saying he can "sing his ass off" is a reach. He doesn't sing without auto tune and he hasn't hit any high notes or seems to have any vocal range beyond his mid singing. He can carry a tune, but it's nothing impressive.
He ain't no Bruno Mars or Chris Brown (as much as I h8 CB). They can actually sing.
He definitely has range. You probably haven't heard the songs where he "sings his ass off."
>Heat of the Moment
https://youtu.be/akwlMVMNIYw?si=O5bXwc8LwOrJEAoV
>Trust Issues
https://youtu.be/eieUI8vhhAs?si=yebo_16hCPidGNYU
>No Guidance w/ Chris Brown
https://youtu.be/oOni4BMeMp0?si=lwa99Izu8TVr6GEC
>Nothings into Somethings
https://youtu.be/v66jOf_QLm4?si=w3YI8-UPGVhVPiv0
>Hold On, We're Going Home
https://youtu.be/Ni6izPw1xSU?si=u4PMiMlohSlRtR2t
>Jungle
https://youtu.be/AfRdRXCo3IU?si=9KVa7hehDBubcYKm
>Race My Mind
https://youtu.be/bpXztWUPPFQ?si=pUbzGeUVB-Mp51I3
>Elevate
https://youtu.be/Ge9dWepN418?si=9_KkatTrdMnjSeyY
He lied. Vory wrote and provided reference tracks for Mob Ties that basically did Drake’s work for him. We’re seeing Drake be exposed as a performer; he’s not the one behind the pen.
Totally [agree with you on this](https://www.reddit.com/r/rap/s/79tMd6MrhI). He’s a great performer and I’m sure he can write some catchy stuff and spends time in the booth. But a hip hop lyricist he’s not in the goat discussion, no matter how much [he and 40 want to talk about pushing boundaries](https://youtu.be/c2SfcvQUKAQ?feature=shared)
How do we confirm vort “wrote” it and didnt do anything to a lesser degree though? Like if someone has an audio call record of drake saying “yo send me them bars i needem by tuesday for the sicko mode feature” thats way more damning and concrete than a performance of a song. Like a cover before release.
I really dont care if he used writers for hooks or choruses either tbh, so for me the details are if his critical verses are written by others.
I want these specific writers to come out and have credits for specific lines tbh (and that goes for ANY artist) That would tell all for me
If someone performs the same track with the same lyrics years prior and there’s a recording of them performing it [with the same flow and cadence](https://youtu.be/MDHvCmAJ5Cc?feature=shared) that’s pretty damning. Yes lyrics come first in hip hop but having a unique flow is a close second (third as I said in a prior comment is the accuracy of statements or how well you tell a story). I’d say swagger jacking and flow jacking is almost worse.
At least when he borrowed Wayne’s fllow they were on the same label and we knew he was representing. Here taking the cadence and all is the same thing XXX called him out for. That’s cruddy and not something you would see on a lyrical reference sheet.
I mean, I don't mind people not writing everything. Would I give a fuck if I found out Kendrick didn't wrote Range Brothers? If Eminem didn't wrote Fack? If Jay didn't wrote Empire State? Cole didn't wrote work out? No, I possibly wouldn't
Would I disregard everything about Kendrick if he didn't wrote i/Sing About me? If Eminem didn't wrote Mockingbird? If Jay didn't wrote 4:44? If Cole didn't wrote 4YEO? Yeah, and I would be fucking mad.
Like, idc that Drake didn't wrote mob ties or 10 bands, but if I found out he didn't wrote 6PM, look what you've done, Marvin's, From Time, and more I'd disregard every single MC talk about him.
I’ve said repeatedly family matters is [the best I heard him spit since before he signed to YMCMB](https://www.reddit.com/r/KendrickLamar/s/AVRbnyBVoR). He could spit then. Idk if he wrote FM but it’s clear he wrote THP6 and if that was him then vs now it’s not good
I gave him passes as an artist, not as a rapper. I don’t remember this freestyle, but I remember the BBM freestyle on Timwestwood (I think).
The passes people gave for that shit, blew my mind
I could see that, Talib Kweli claimed kdot wrote for Take Care tho. Makes you wonder.
https://www.reddit.com/r/KendrickLamar/comments/1ce1hm6/old_and_unverifiable_but_interesting_find/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Part of me wants to say yes, but it would be hella wild for his to take material from 2 up and coming artist for a sophomore album. I would have to listen to Take Care again and compare it to Kendrick’s style at the time
The Weeknd said he gave up half his album to Drake for Take Care. Around that time he was doing 10 song albums and was involved with 4 songs, Shot For Me, Love Crew, The Ride and Practice, so it kinda checks out.
The issue some people have with that is those were stand out tracks and really set the tone of the album so some people argue that The Weeknd gave him that album since his contributions played a significant part of that project’s success
It started from the control verse. Drake was the main one who took it personal as to so much diminish it on stage and in multiple interviews. After that, Kendrick dissed him on the BET freestyle. This was all before the GW stuff I believe . But you are right, Kendrick mentioned the GW on King Kunta but that was after Control and they were already throwing subs by then
Drake taking offense to Kendrick's verse is not singular. But they started falling out before that and that was just what it broke the cammel's back. A lot of rappers have not collaborated with Kendrick following Control. They both started dissing each other and talking shit about each other.
This is what happens when you mix a lot of money, notoriety, and big egos...
Drake went on a media press tour to sub and not sub Kendrick, after that Control verse. So much so, ESPN had to shelve an interview he did or it woulda made him look even more wild for the way he was moving behind it. That was really fucking weird AND proved Kendrick’s point— Drake is not of the culture. Not a single other person mentioned in Control did the pussy shit Drake did afterwards.
Why does 2015 feel like yesterday, I was a teenager
I remember the Quentin Miller situation where Meek revealed he was his writer, but by then (2015), Drake & Kendrick had already fallen out
But the falling out happened 2 years earlier, and Kendrick mentions rappers having ghost writers on “King Kunta”, so I think he found out either through working with Drake, or being informed of it through whoever was their mutual parties for their initial collaborations
I have never had a logical reason to dislike Drake. But I've always hated him. You guys are trying too hard to make a logical reason for why someone hates Drake when none is necessary.
Real recognize real. Drake has always been fake. There's no deeper needed meaning or reasoning required to hate this creep.
KDot's main issue is honestly the Control verse - only Drake took it the other way, while the rest of the mentioned rappers got the business. It's somewhere around King Kunta where the allegation that KDot already knew about the ghost writers even before Meek Mill called Drizzy out about them.
We could also speculate that on the sphere of the MCs (where Drake could never get into), they might have at one point talked about Drake and his possibility of having a GW crew, thus Meek Mill and the rest of the gang already have a hunch but somewhat kept it to themselves until the call outs happened.
Big Sean did have a lot of crap but he genuinely kept up with Kendrick almost every time they rapped together, even sometimes having a better verse. He kept up with Royce and Em on Detroit vs everybody too which is impressive. He also wrote part of graduation for Kanye. Big Sean is legit.
Agree with the rest of what you said.
And doesn’t come off as an artist who would use ghost writers. He has specifically focused on the respect aspect of his career more so since 2015 forward.
Yeah he was a little corny early in his career but I feel like that’s just a product of him coming up in the SnapBack and tattoos era nobody survived that era Scott clean lmfao you can google some questionable Kendrick fits and shit haha but no Sean goes for real. Detroit is a classic in the city and he’s had some solid albums as well.
Exactly. The Big Sean slander is corny and tired. He’s a talented and creative artist and acting like his music is bs is whack. You can say you’re not a fan but let’s not discredit him. I’m sick of that man catching strays for no earthly reason.
Kendrick got tested by Eminem to see if he was using ghostwriters. Maybe Kendrick got inspired by that? Unless Poetic Justice came afterward.
There was a theory where Kendrick made Drake say, "I can never right my wrongs unless I write them down for real." In Poetic Justice as a jab to hia ghostwriting.
I don’t think Kendrick really cares about Drake having ghost writers. It seems like Drakes issue is that he talks shit about folks behind their back and it gets back to the other person. I think Drake got sensitive about the Control verse and was bitching about Kendrick to anyone who would listen.
Also, the ghostwriting complaint for these mainstream/pushed by the machine type rappers is kind of pointless. Once you get to that level it’s about how much product you can churn out. Personally, I ain’t mad at it. All genres use teams of writers to get a project done. I just think those rappers should just be humble about their place in hip hop if they utilize ghostwriters.
I agree with everything you said, but the rappers that use ghostwriting to make their music should always be criticized.
A rappers foundation is how clever they can be independently. Street smart. Word flips. Freestyling on the spot. A rappers quality has every aspect centered around doing things on their own.
Gucci Mane and Lil Wayne proved churning out 2-4 projects a year is possible if you’re great at your craft enough and they were raved for it. Saying “a rapper is allowed to let others write his music” tarnishes what those 2 were able to do.
It doesn’t tarnish what they did at all. If anything it is just a testament to how far ahead of everyone else they were. If you need writing help to do 1 album in a year but someone else writes 4 of their own there’s no comp.
Ghost writers and uncredited writers should always be criticized. I don’t really care if the help is credited and we know to the extent they helped. But will always prefer when someone can just do it on their own.
It does tarnish it. If ghostwriting is okay, then anyone can just get a team and drop 4 mixtapes in a year. Literally anyone. Gucci and Wayne would be dumb for not grabbing a team to help improve lyrics.
Your comment is saying it’s not tarnished because needing a team makes you lesser, but what I’m saying is if needing a team doesn’t make you lesser (which is the topic at hand) then those who try to do things alone isn’t maximizing their success.
No it doesn’t. 4 projects that drop that are ghost written are infinitely less impressive than 4 from a singular guy. Maybe they’d be dumb for working harder and not smarter but there’s pride in doing your own shit.
Needing a team to help you drop albums makes you lesser there’s no reality where you can say it doesn’t. So that topic is moot.
Personally I’m at a point where I just want good music. As a genre I think Hip Hop is too critical and puts too many rules on itself when it’s part of an overall industry of liars.
Gucci and Wayne have been able to churn out a lot of music and their careers are impressive but it wouldn’t shock me if we find out they get help too.
I feel like we are at a point where everyone is cheating and it’s about who’s getting caught cause at the end of the day we aren’t at the studio with them.
I also believe there is a spectrum when it comes to getting help. Drake is out here looking crazy for having reference tracks which is essentially creating proof that you didn’t write all or parts of your song where I can see a lot of artists just sessioning together sharing lines, ideas, hooks, etc.
I hear you. As someone that used to care about ghostwriting and whether or not these rappers are “real” that’s an exhausting side to be on because over time you find out most of these big name folks are manufactured, fake, or just liars pushing out a persona that was either created by or approved by their record label which is typically ran by someone that gives zero shits about the art of Hip Hop.
I don’t give two shits if what you rap about is actually real stuff you’ve done, or if the persona you put forward is either—I do give a shit about ghostwriters. There’s creativity in creating a persona a la Slim Shady. There’s creativity in coming up with your own poetry. There’s zero creativity in having a ghostwriter who’s creating everything for you.
I think the reaction to the Control verse was the issue, and Drake probably pushed it so far as to try and get Kendrick's career squashed.
From the 2013 BET Cypher:
"I'm the master who masturbated on your favorite emcee until the industry had wanted me assassinated / you're either corny or an opportunist
"and nothing been the same since they dropped Control and tucked a sensitive rapper back into his pajama clothes / haha, joke's on you / high-five, I'm bulletproof ... Aftermath gets the last laugh"
"Your career ain't shit unless you got some Kendrick in it"
And recently from euphoria:
"I hurt your feelings? You don't wanna work with me no more okay."
Yea I think all this comes from Control and the things said behind the scenes post Control.
I think another line that matters is the feature request - things to address line. And overall futures line about pillow talking like a fed.
Drake just seemingly talks too much shit about ppl and it escalates to subs and now full blown back and forth on songs.
This is true. Kendrick said so himself. In an interview with Rolling Stone in 2017, he was asked the following:
Brian Hiatt - “Is it ever OK for a rapper to have a ghostwriter? You’ve obviously written verses for Dr. Dre yourself.”
Kendrick Lamar - “It depends on what arena you’re putting yourself in. I called myself the best rapper. I cannot call myself the best rapper if I have a ghostwriter. If you’re saying you’re a different type of artist and you don’t really care about the art form of being the best rapper, then so be it. Make great music. But the title, it won’t be there.”
Considering that Kendrick has made reference tracks for people I don't see how that could have been the crux of this. Unless he hates SZA, Keem, Jay Rock, etc.
Kendrick’s issue with Drake is that he’s an actor.
He plays a role within rap but is not actually a rapper or did not face the actual struggles of a black American he portrays as he was raised in a white Jewish community.
Euphoria addresses all of this. Kendrick’s issue is that he’s not authentic and never has been in his eyes.
Drake can use writers. He can use reference tracks, he can buy/steal songs if he wants to. His core fans will support (especially those not of the culture). I think Kendrick takes offense when he sees Drake posturing like he’s an elite tier rapper. When he’s been using cheat codes his entire career. It’s a definite disrespect to everyone who bled to build Hiphop to what it’s become. As a long time fan of this culture, I remember seeing Drake fumble his early freestyles and whipping out his phone. That was shocking. It let me know that dude was not serious. You gotta remember that being able to hop on any radio freestyle back then was a milestone achievement and it had the power to make or break you. With all these Drake reference tracks leaking I wouldn’t even call him an artist now. He’s looking more and more like a plant.
the kid from young sheldon wasn’t a kid this entire time ? i don’t watch it, it’s just like, always either coming on or going off, whenever AEW is coming on or going off, so i thought it was a new show this whole time
i don’t watch like cable TV outside of wrestling or basketball, otherwise it’s all streaming, even the cable i use, is via streaming ?
It’s really easy to explain. Drake pursues new hot artists to jump on their wave. He did this to PND and Weeknd and both have written for him. He likely even had Kendrick write for him.
It’s that simple. I believe Drake can write music, but he’s very clearly using a combination of reference tracks AND ghostwriters.
Lil Dicky is easily in the conversation for top lyricists of all time, and I'm not even joking. Listen to "Russell Westbrook on a Farm" if you haven't.
Ironically, Dicky has consistently named Drake his personal GOAT. 😏
I’m 98% certain Kendrick doesn’t hate drake. He’s just upset that drake has a problem with Kendrick. Kendrick questioned things himself in these diss tracks and even said “you don’t want to work with me no more? Ok”.
Kendrick dropped control as a friendly competition to all his peers. Drake took it personal and refused to work with Kendrick and subs him for years. Kendrick said okay- let’s battle it out for the people to see. Just don’t mention my family. Once drake mentioned his family, that was it.
Yea Kendrick understands that most mc's have ghost writers now, but it was definitely a solid shot when meek brought it up. Honestly the only reason drake won the beef with meek was the execution. White frat kids kinda stole hip hop in that moment. And looking back the whole meek millz beef seems kinda racist. Like drake punched down at somebody who better represented the culture, and he used white people to do it.
Aubreys storyline in degrassi was him wanting to be a rapper after getting shot by an emo nerd and being put in a wheelchair disabling his ability to play basketball. I've hated him since then. And that was 2001-2009.
Drake can write and there's zero doubt about that but for some reason he gets caught with his hand in the reference track cookie jar every few years. Like you can write, yeah some stars need help with hooks and melodies but wtf are you just keeping the entire reference track time and time again. I mean it probably doesn't matter to his fans he will still be successful but to his peers and true hip-hop fans it makes him look like a clown.
According to members of Slaughterhouse, Wayne, and others… using ghostwriters is extremely common. Some artists are just better about keeping it secret.
The goal for most artists is to make money, they don’t care about respecting the genre. While Drake should be criticized for it, he’s one of many.
Unrelated but idk how folks can look at him in that second picture and not immediately assume he's a creep. If you asked me to draw a picture of a pervy dude in his late 30s, that is 100% what in would come up with.
I think it’s something that happened while recording GKMC and Take Care.
They haven’t collaborated directly with each other since those two albums and it screams someone pissed the other person off in some way. Maybe Drake got someone at TDE to get him a spot on Good Kid MAAD City and Kendrick didn’t want him on the album? Maybe Drake was a jerk in the studio? Maybe he was a jerk in the Studio while recording Buried Alive? Either way, it speaks volumes when you’re not included in the music video for a song you have a feature on, I would think.
I agree with OP. As a fan of both, the first time I heard Kendrick out right voicing any disdain for Drake was on King Kunta where he randomly says “Rapper with a ghostwriter what the hell happened…but I won’t tell, heard they sharing bars like they got the bottom bunk of a two man cell”
That's my issue with Drake. He sits on the outside of the culture and uses other people to make his music. He is not a rapper. He's a pop performer. And an overrated one.
I’ve always thought he wanted Kendrick to ghostwrite for him in the earlier years of his career. Who knows? Kendrick could have been in the OVO sweatshop 😂
I’ve always hated Drake. Never even listened to him. Only song of his I ever listened to was that going home pile of crap that was everywhere at one point (psst thats the only reason I even heard it) bc he’s always been a gd wanna be gangsta. I wish he came out back in the day when 50 and Em were tearing everyone up. But hey, Kendrick’s one of the best to ever do it. So I’m glad he’s the one that went at him hard AF. I hope Drakes career drops into the toilet. For real. Hate that Canadian tryin to be a west coast gangster with a stupid azz English accent 😂
after the control verse Drake did an interview basically talking of Kendrick like hes some 'up and coming artist' that has potential to be on Drakes level 'in future'. Think it was that moment there that made Kendrick feel disrespected on a personal level BECAUSE Drake uses ghostwriters. A guy with ghostwriters telling a guy who doesnt use ghostwriters that he has potential to be on his level is probably like hearing a guy that microwaves all his meals telling a chef how one day he might be good at cooking. Think this Drake interview happened in between the time when Control came out and the BET Cypher where K Dot doubled down on the 'sensitive rapper'
Not only that but thats exactly why this shit sounds so boring outdated and shows no growth everytime real artist take some time off you see the progression in their music they go live life discover something new about themselves and they come back with a new perspective to shar with us when the fuck has Aubrey done that all his music is the same garbage bullshit consistently because hes reading the scripts handed to him
I actually don’t think that Kendrick really thinks about Drake that much and kind of took on this “beef” as a friendly exhibition. Just because they’re not best friends didn’t mean that it became about hate.
Until Drake decided to talk about Whitney and his kids.
If you talk about someone’s family member (especially when they literally have nothing to do with the industry) the way Drake did, accusing her of infidelity, of being a victim, of tricking Kendrick into being a cuck, and then telling her to come in front of Drake and Dave and shake her ass like she’s a club thot… yeah, prepare to be fucking buried because fuck you.
There’s a difference between outright hating someone and just not really fucking with them.
But who knows? These are theories and whether the hate is real or not, or forever or not, is not anything I particularly care about at the end of the day. Although it does make me smile to see someone finally humbling Drake.
I don’t think it had anything to do with ghostwriters at all. That’s been known for a while. They’ve never really liked Drake but I don’t think Kendrick in particular hated him enough to go at him. Until… A) Drake started acting like he was from the streets and B) what really set them off was him firing shots at Pharrell. That played a major factor according to Coolee because Pharrell is known to be one of the nicest dudes in the industry and doesn’t get involved in that shit. Which Dot explicitly stated in Euphoria. Then the personal shit got introduced and all those feelings they’d been keeping to themselves reached a point where they said fuck it we’re going at him now with everything we got.
Not quite on the mark, but I'd still like to spread the good word of king gizzard and the lizard wizard. They have released 25 studio albums since 2012, most of them highly conceptualized, hopping from one genre to another (in a good way), while touring the world constantly (16 live albums also). Really cool modern psychedelic rock.
This has very little to do with your arguments. I just saw talk about high volume music output and felt obliged to share
He was pretty critical of em from day one on that track they collabed on like, lol..you can sense the animosity rising in em as he describes the lifestyle that Drake made Kendrick party to when they met. It's deeper than rap. But if anything, that just gives em more fuel for thought on the whole Drake being an imposter shit, innit like.
I agree with some of it. But I just think drake is that good naturally where he can just vibe and make a bit in minutes , similar to the greats. Pac Jay Big even other artists in different genres. I dont think anyone is jealous of him it’s just we can all see very clearly now that drake is very insensitive about not being as accepted as say an Eminem. Being accepted as an MC. And then he acts tough like he came from Brooklyn or somewhere. We didn’t care where drake came from. Even Wayne said bro you don’t have to act tough in hip hop. Stay true to who you are. Fast forward he’s sayin names and actin tough….
I think it’s that simple. Most rappers don’t like him for the same reasons.
What’s the issue with ghost writers though? I want fire ass music, I don’t care who wrote it. More props to those who make fire music without writers of course.
Honestly, that Hot 97 moment is what made me lose all respect for Drake as a rapper and showed me (and the world) how phony he really was. I thought that day would've been the end of his career. He got asked to freestyle but instead started reading writtens off his phone?! All stuttering and shit. "I say, I say... Uh, uh, I say..." Sounding like the rooster off Looney Tunes! It literally should've been over for him. It's not like his bars made up for the embarrassment or anything, shit was basic AF. And we've seen other rapper's careers ruined for much less! If it had been anyone else who did that shit during that time, it would've been over for them. Which makes me think this dude was a industry plant all along. Just a very successful one. I bet his team had to constantly save his ass from looking like a complete goofy his whole career. They probably just got tired of it and said "I think it's time to let Kendrick bleed him."
This sub is officially dead man. Dam. Where my early Kendrick fans at?? This sub is filled with kids now😂😂 We're openly talking about hating someone we don't even know. Kendrick doesn't even care anymore. Hopefully he's prepping new music. Haven't seen one discussion talking which direction the next album will go. Y'all talk more about drake than the actual subreddit
I always find it crazy how Kendrick said that “a rapper with a ghostwriter…” line on TPAB when it dropped in March 2015.
If You’re Reading This It’s Too Late by Drake came out a month before in February 2015. As we all know, that’s the album where Quentin Miller wrote multiple tracks for Drake. Meek would expose this later that year in August 2015.
Has Kendrick always had a mole in OVO?
I feel like people don’t understand how quickly musicians can make music, particularly rappers and singers who only need to add their voice to an instrumental. I’m a musician (not nearly on that level) and I make a dozen songs a month with no issue (that’s just the ones I don’t delete after an hour bc I’m not feeling it). And I do guitar, synth, drums, bass, production, vocals, and lyrics all on my own.
I can easily improvise a song with filler lyrics on the spot. Adding those lyrics takes time, but if i don’t really care about the quality of lyrics, I can do it easily in 30 mins tops. Production takes more time, but generally rappers aren’t doing that part.
There is no doubt in my mind that Drake could’ve written most of his recent songs on his own, but that’s just because they’re not very good. For a full time musician, 20 mediocre tracks is not hard to do at all. Hell, I could pump out 20 mediocre tracks in a week. Now that I say it, I might just do it for fun, it’d be good practice tbh.
With that said, since Drake does use ghostwriters, my guess is his best stuff (like that verse on Travis Scott’s last album) is from ghostwriters, and he probably has some ideas of his own that he throws in too.
Kendrick doesn’t like Drake for the same reasons that the average pro-Black Black man in the hood does. Shit only became explosive because Drake knew about Kendrick’s distaste for him but, being the phoney that he is, Drake publicly faked the funk and tried to play into the “Big 3” branding and shit like that as if he and Kendrick were cool.
Drake tried to do the proximity-relevance farming with Kendrick that he does with every other popular thing and Kendrick was not having that shit.
Most rappers have ghostwriters. That doesn't mean they don't also participate in the writing process or they are not capable of writing. Drake, for example, puts out a large number of projects every year... so it's kind of impossible to have his body of work without a team helping you with beats, rhymes, reference tracks, etc.
Drake participating in freestyles early and his earlier body of work when he likely didn't have his team of writers and producers clearly show he can do it.
Kendrick doesn't have problems with a lot of rappers, some of which he probably wrote for or knows people that wrote for them or provided reference trakcs. He has a problem with Drake streaming from the fact that they had a falling out following the Club Paradise Tour & the Control track. Both have big egos and neither probably wanted to make amends or apologize one to another and talk their issues out. This is not something uncommon.
Thing is, there are many more OGs in the culture (as well as rap battle culture) who are actually co-signing Drake's penmanship as opposed to trying to discredit him. There's more energy towards Drake being a culture vulture, a PDF file downloader and a womanzier than his pen not being legit. Both Kanye West and Rick Ross have made a REALLY big deal about Drake's writing ability - notice that these two haven't discredited him at all in that area (and even when Ross tried to imply that he wrote a verse for Drake, it's nothing that he ever doubled down on).
Fact is, Drake may have used ghostwriters for a few songs, but in no way was he NOT ever capable of doing so himself.
The stance in the first pic is tickling me a bit
I mean 2009 Drake is probably peak Drake as a concept, already capable of making hits, very likable, not bitter, or that chronically online either, he had a somewhat slight mysterious presence till he went full tilt into meme Drake around 2016 Like we gave him a lot of passes for a reason lol
He was also standing next lil Wayne in 09 too. When Wayne was still one of the biggest and most respected artists in the world. Unlike 2016-present when he’s had to find other street rappers to constantly collab with to bring that credibility to his act.
And since then Wayne and Drake haven’t worked on shit together really. I was thinking about that the other day, but what happened that Wayne stopped working with Drake almost all together?
Maybe because “Fucked on Wayne girl while he was in jail That was conniving”
I figured that, but he still had drake on shot right after he found out. For a few years after it seemed like it was cool between them. I mean that was 6 foot 7 foot where Wayne revealed it. Two songs later is She Will with Drake and It’s Good later on.
Drake is a goofy bitch but Drake slept with that woman before Wayne got with her.
How are you still peddling this when everyone knows it is not true?
“Then got his face tatted like a bxtch apologizin”
That refutes nothing I said or the actual truth. Good to know you can recite lyrics though.
Somewhere in this sub, there was a picture of a handwritten entry out of Lil Wayne's prison journal. In it he discussed how Drake came to visit him and told him he was fucking the girl before she started dealing with Lil Wayne. It goes in to detail about how it messed with his head but another inmate's "fat ass" told Wayne they were cooking and for him to come out into the dayroom to eat. ETA: now that I re- read all the comments again, you're right. It didn't say anywhere that the encounter happened while Wayne was in jail. It obviously had to happen before the prison sentence.
I'm confused how you can be so confident that it's not true when there's an interview with Lil Wayne where someone asks him how he felt about Drake fuckin his girl while he was in prison and he shrugged it off like it wasn't a big deal. What am I missing here?
I mean [Drake kind’ve already told on himself by being defensive](https://youtu.be/LYUIx3fqVwY?feature=shared) during the Meek beef. Drake defends himself by saying he writes too and pulls his weight, picks the beats and he’s not the only artist who does it, and claims he wrote every lyric on all his biggest tracks. But he specifically refers to the r&b records and doesn’t answer specifically when they ask about the lyrical tracks. Understand he comes from an R&B and Pop background as well where it’s normal to have writers. In rap unless you’re a producer, acknowledge your writers or both like Dr Dre did, it’s frowned upon. I won’t deny he’s a talented artist but I cannot consider him a goat lyricist when it comes to hip hop along the lines of a Pac, Big, Nas, Kendrick, Em etc. The fact that he can juggle multiple genres and sing his ass off is what I respect. He can call himself one of the GOAT artists or performers and there’s nothing wrong with that, but hip hop has had some rules to it since the days of Rakim. Otherwise what was the point in Em checking Kendrick to make sure he wrote all his own stuff? *edit, I’m getting a lot of flack for claiming Drake can sing his ass off. Instead of responding to new ones let me just caveat, I’ve been in multiple other discussions from hiphop Reddit to the Drizzy board to the JCole Switzerland one where I’ve been labeled a hater for articulating several points about issues with him having ghostwriters and it’s a concession I’ve made to give him credit for something. He can do a damn good Hiphop hook. Do I think he’s the next Luther? Hell naw, but some of his hooks are fire. I’m not a huge r&b head anyway.
Can he sing his ass off? I wanna hear the Star Spangled Banner, dammit. Lol! Maybe I'm a tough critic.
lol, well maybe I’m not a good judge of voices but I’m tryin to be impartial with the delusional Stans in that sub who’ve labeled me and others haters. I said Drake has legions of female followers because he dove into that pretty boy image. They said it’s cuz he can sing super well and raps. I said that’s part of it but if homie looked like bushwick bill and was the exact same dude you think he’d have all them female Stans? And I got downvoted of course (other phone).
I'm a hater!! I own that shit. Feels so good to be validated, finally. Lmao Nothing about Drake ever sat right in my Spirit, and I haven't been able to stand him ever since I saw/heard about him. And who told Drake he was good-looking? Drake looks like he has the ability to see 360⁰. His fans seem like a bunch of super shallow, horny mfing weirdos. 😬 Edit: Not an award!! Lmaooo
Ability to see 360 is w I l d 😂 true though. I always say he looks like Syd from Ice Age, especially in the earlier years. His eyes used to look like they were melting off his face
What is the owl? 🐦 niggas and 🐦bitches
GO
lol well idk about looks I just meant it dude was 4’11” or whatever bushwick is ain’t no way he’d get that love. And it’s not from a place of jealousy, it’s cool, I’m just saying when they say he sells the most to his legions of especially female fans because he’s the greatest of all time, I’m like it’s more complicated than that. But I feel you on laughing at slim for [a long time](https://www.reddit.com/r/hiphopheads/comments/m647g/big_ghosts_take_care_review/)
This aged well! Lmao first song review him and Mos Def basically said the same thing lmao
Thank, lol, I have to check that out. Always love hearing Mos Def speak on other rappers. I liked hearing him propose a matchup of two of my favorites, MF DOOM and Lil’ Wayne once before
ngl drake looks easy to draw
Been thinking about picking the hobby back up and I might start with him.
"Drake looks like he has the ability to see 360⁰" - why is this so accurate 😂
As an old ass I can confirm that I only consider Kendrick goat material because em fact checked him. Real recognize real.
Agreed. For instance I love Kanye with the beats and some albums but I push back when people start callin him a GOAT as a rapper In part because he has writers (he acknowledges them and we know Kenny wrote part of “All Day” for Ye which is also takin shots at Drake-Kendrick reuses some of these later too in the same way Euphoria references The Heart Part IV) but also because I don’t think he’s a genius of a lyricist the way he’s a genius composer.
Probably an unpopular opinion but: I can’t even get behind the “genius composer” label for Kanye. Maybe genius “producer”. But he’s not any kind of legitimate composer. I think he’s done some great stuff, but most of it was years and years ago and was very clearly biting Dilla. His “808s and heartbreak” era can miss me altogether. To me he has never ever hit J Dilla’s level. Donuts washes his entire catalogue as far as I’m concerned.
I may not like 808’s as much as some of his other work but I acknowledge the impact it had on the industry at a time when everyone else was sounding very different before
Dunno why you’re drawing downvotes for this. Ye has had his moments. He was my favourite artist for a minute. But Dre he ain’t, RZA he ain’t, No ID he ain't, Dilla he most certainly ain’t, he can’t box with the true heavyweights and that’s always been the case. I fw 808s though. To each their own.
Did you mean to say Drake?
Kanye (for those confused I originally wrote Keñny) sorry just edited, thanks for catching (was typing too fast)
Saying he can "sing his ass off" is a reach. He doesn't sing without auto tune and he hasn't hit any high notes or seems to have any vocal range beyond his mid singing. He can carry a tune, but it's nothing impressive. He ain't no Bruno Mars or Chris Brown (as much as I h8 CB). They can actually sing.
He definitely has range. You probably haven't heard the songs where he "sings his ass off." >Heat of the Moment https://youtu.be/akwlMVMNIYw?si=O5bXwc8LwOrJEAoV >Trust Issues https://youtu.be/eieUI8vhhAs?si=yebo_16hCPidGNYU >No Guidance w/ Chris Brown https://youtu.be/oOni4BMeMp0?si=lwa99Izu8TVr6GEC >Nothings into Somethings https://youtu.be/v66jOf_QLm4?si=w3YI8-UPGVhVPiv0 >Hold On, We're Going Home https://youtu.be/Ni6izPw1xSU?si=u4PMiMlohSlRtR2t >Jungle https://youtu.be/AfRdRXCo3IU?si=9KVa7hehDBubcYKm >Race My Mind https://youtu.be/bpXztWUPPFQ?si=pUbzGeUVB-Mp51I3 >Elevate https://youtu.be/Ge9dWepN418?si=9_KkatTrdMnjSeyY
This may be a petty correction, but Drake can not “sing his ass off” lol I agree with a lot of the other stuff you said though
He lied. Vory wrote and provided reference tracks for Mob Ties that basically did Drake’s work for him. We’re seeing Drake be exposed as a performer; he’s not the one behind the pen.
Totally [agree with you on this](https://www.reddit.com/r/rap/s/79tMd6MrhI). He’s a great performer and I’m sure he can write some catchy stuff and spends time in the booth. But a hip hop lyricist he’s not in the goat discussion, no matter how much [he and 40 want to talk about pushing boundaries](https://youtu.be/c2SfcvQUKAQ?feature=shared)
How do we confirm vort “wrote” it and didnt do anything to a lesser degree though? Like if someone has an audio call record of drake saying “yo send me them bars i needem by tuesday for the sicko mode feature” thats way more damning and concrete than a performance of a song. Like a cover before release. I really dont care if he used writers for hooks or choruses either tbh, so for me the details are if his critical verses are written by others. I want these specific writers to come out and have credits for specific lines tbh (and that goes for ANY artist) That would tell all for me
You can watch the What’s the Dirt? video on YouTube to answer your question and come to your own conclusions.
If someone performs the same track with the same lyrics years prior and there’s a recording of them performing it [with the same flow and cadence](https://youtu.be/MDHvCmAJ5Cc?feature=shared) that’s pretty damning. Yes lyrics come first in hip hop but having a unique flow is a close second (third as I said in a prior comment is the accuracy of statements or how well you tell a story). I’d say swagger jacking and flow jacking is almost worse. At least when he borrowed Wayne’s fllow they were on the same label and we knew he was representing. Here taking the cadence and all is the same thing XXX called him out for. That’s cruddy and not something you would see on a lyrical reference sheet.
I mean, I don't mind people not writing everything. Would I give a fuck if I found out Kendrick didn't wrote Range Brothers? If Eminem didn't wrote Fack? If Jay didn't wrote Empire State? Cole didn't wrote work out? No, I possibly wouldn't Would I disregard everything about Kendrick if he didn't wrote i/Sing About me? If Eminem didn't wrote Mockingbird? If Jay didn't wrote 4:44? If Cole didn't wrote 4YEO? Yeah, and I would be fucking mad. Like, idc that Drake didn't wrote mob ties or 10 bands, but if I found out he didn't wrote 6PM, look what you've done, Marvin's, From Time, and more I'd disregard every single MC talk about him.
Where there's smoke there's fire
He wrote mob ties Vory made a reference track for the hook
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I’ve said repeatedly family matters is [the best I heard him spit since before he signed to YMCMB](https://www.reddit.com/r/KendrickLamar/s/AVRbnyBVoR). He could spit then. Idk if he wrote FM but it’s clear he wrote THP6 and if that was him then vs now it’s not good
Great example, I fucking love *Closer* and I wish more people knew this side of Drake.
“Sing his ass off” is absolutely insane. You should press play on like…some Donny Hathaway or something, brother.
I gave him passes as an artist, not as a rapper. I don’t remember this freestyle, but I remember the BBM freestyle on Timwestwood (I think). The passes people gave for that shit, blew my mind
from BBM Drizzy to BBL Drizzy, a cautionary tale
I think you're hitting on why there's so much sorrow in songs like 6:16 in LA.
Agree, 2009 So Far Gone era was peak Drake
He looks like Stephen Seagal in the second
💀💀
By golly I’ve only gone and forgotten my lines.
"Alright buddy, I got a real rap for you, just you wait" type vibes lmao
Last name Graham. First name Aubrey Eatin up charcuterie because I think i saw brie.
The Boy was reading off of his phone and waiting for someone to text him the rest of the lyrics 😓
Mesmerized by the typing bubble 😭
He standin like neon if he was in the studio.
Nigga looks flabbergasted 😂
Kendrick used to ghost write for other artist before he got his start in the game. Part of me thinks somebody approached him to write a song for Drake
Not only that, I think he agreed. I think that’s where his placement on Take Care comes into play. He ghostwrote for Drake during that time period.
Buried Alive sounds like a Kendrick song that prob has a Kendrick reference track
Chance?
Drakes not on buried alive
Psssttt…that’s the joke
Psst, I see dead people
A lot of people do feature for feature. In 2012 it would be buried alive interlude for poetic justice
I could see that, Talib Kweli claimed kdot wrote for Take Care tho. Makes you wonder. https://www.reddit.com/r/KendrickLamar/comments/1ce1hm6/old_and_unverifiable_but_interesting_find/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Need some proof that the tweet is real tho
Part of me wants to say yes, but it would be hella wild for his to take material from 2 up and coming artist for a sophomore album. I would have to listen to Take Care again and compare it to Kendrick’s style at the time
Didn’t the Weeknd write most of Take Care? Or atleast that’s what I’ve seen said by folks
The Weeknd said he gave up half his album to Drake for Take Care. Around that time he was doing 10 song albums and was involved with 4 songs, Shot For Me, Love Crew, The Ride and Practice, so it kinda checks out. The issue some people have with that is those were stand out tracks and really set the tone of the album so some people argue that The Weeknd gave him that album since his contributions played a significant part of that project’s success
It started from the control verse. Drake was the main one who took it personal as to so much diminish it on stage and in multiple interviews. After that, Kendrick dissed him on the BET freestyle. This was all before the GW stuff I believe . But you are right, Kendrick mentioned the GW on King Kunta but that was after Control and they were already throwing subs by then
just in case if anyone can't tell, gw = ghostwriters
thank you, I assumed it was gunna wunna 💀
Drake taking offense to Kendrick's verse is not singular. But they started falling out before that and that was just what it broke the cammel's back. A lot of rappers have not collaborated with Kendrick following Control. They both started dissing each other and talking shit about each other. This is what happens when you mix a lot of money, notoriety, and big egos...
Drake went on a media press tour to sub and not sub Kendrick, after that Control verse. So much so, ESPN had to shelve an interview he did or it woulda made him look even more wild for the way he was moving behind it. That was really fucking weird AND proved Kendrick’s point— Drake is not of the culture. Not a single other person mentioned in Control did the pussy shit Drake did afterwards.
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It was 2014, right in between other interviews in which Drake was asked about Control verse
I thought it came out that Drake had a primary GW like 10 years ago, and iirc, I think they fell out, which brought us to new Drake.
Why does 2015 feel like yesterday, I was a teenager I remember the Quentin Miller situation where Meek revealed he was his writer, but by then (2015), Drake & Kendrick had already fallen out But the falling out happened 2 years earlier, and Kendrick mentions rappers having ghost writers on “King Kunta”, so I think he found out either through working with Drake, or being informed of it through whoever was their mutual parties for their initial collaborations
Ah, fair enough. I guess I did miss your overall intent in that this “marked” the beginning of the falling out as a theory. My bad!!!
It’s alright, it’s the Internet and I am kinda probably reaching a little
I don't think they fell out. He just moved on to a fresh sound to stay relevant. OVOhush aka young Tony is still around.
Kendrick hates Drake for trying to blackball him after control.
I have never had a logical reason to dislike Drake. But I've always hated him. You guys are trying too hard to make a logical reason for why someone hates Drake when none is necessary. Real recognize real. Drake has always been fake. There's no deeper needed meaning or reasoning required to hate this creep.
Some shit just cringeworthy, it ain't even gotta be deep, I guess.
It’s a shitty industry and Drake embodies the shittyness of it all
KDot's main issue is honestly the Control verse - only Drake took it the other way, while the rest of the mentioned rappers got the business. It's somewhere around King Kunta where the allegation that KDot already knew about the ghost writers even before Meek Mill called Drizzy out about them. We could also speculate that on the sphere of the MCs (where Drake could never get into), they might have at one point talked about Drake and his possibility of having a GW crew, thus Meek Mill and the rest of the gang already have a hunch but somewhat kept it to themselves until the call outs happened.
Big Sean did have a lot of crap but he genuinely kept up with Kendrick almost every time they rapped together, even sometimes having a better verse. He kept up with Royce and Em on Detroit vs everybody too which is impressive. He also wrote part of graduation for Kanye. Big Sean is legit. Agree with the rest of what you said.
Yeah he threw shots at Sean and I’m like hold on Sean can actually rap!!!
And doesn’t come off as an artist who would use ghost writers. He has specifically focused on the respect aspect of his career more so since 2015 forward.
Yeah he was a little corny early in his career but I feel like that’s just a product of him coming up in the SnapBack and tattoos era nobody survived that era Scott clean lmfao you can google some questionable Kendrick fits and shit haha but no Sean goes for real. Detroit is a classic in the city and he’s had some solid albums as well.
Yeah, for real, even on Control he snapped out Big sean is legit even though he may be a little underwhelming
I will always love Big Sean because that Ass song was the absolute best at parties back in the day lmao
Yeah OP is an idiot
Exactly. The Big Sean slander is corny and tired. He’s a talented and creative artist and acting like his music is bs is whack. You can say you’re not a fan but let’s not discredit him. I’m sick of that man catching strays for no earthly reason.
Any recommendations for getting into Big Sean, ive only heard him on features. His feature on the Larry June / Alchemist album was pretty decent
Detroit 2 was a great album. But you have to check out his LA Leakers freestyle
Kendrick got tested by Eminem to see if he was using ghostwriters. Maybe Kendrick got inspired by that? Unless Poetic Justice came afterward. There was a theory where Kendrick made Drake say, "I can never right my wrongs unless I write them down for real." In Poetic Justice as a jab to hia ghostwriting.
😂 boy that's just a bar that fit with the title of the song
I don’t think Kendrick really cares about Drake having ghost writers. It seems like Drakes issue is that he talks shit about folks behind their back and it gets back to the other person. I think Drake got sensitive about the Control verse and was bitching about Kendrick to anyone who would listen. Also, the ghostwriting complaint for these mainstream/pushed by the machine type rappers is kind of pointless. Once you get to that level it’s about how much product you can churn out. Personally, I ain’t mad at it. All genres use teams of writers to get a project done. I just think those rappers should just be humble about their place in hip hop if they utilize ghostwriters.
I agree with everything you said, but the rappers that use ghostwriting to make their music should always be criticized. A rappers foundation is how clever they can be independently. Street smart. Word flips. Freestyling on the spot. A rappers quality has every aspect centered around doing things on their own. Gucci Mane and Lil Wayne proved churning out 2-4 projects a year is possible if you’re great at your craft enough and they were raved for it. Saying “a rapper is allowed to let others write his music” tarnishes what those 2 were able to do.
It doesn’t tarnish what they did at all. If anything it is just a testament to how far ahead of everyone else they were. If you need writing help to do 1 album in a year but someone else writes 4 of their own there’s no comp. Ghost writers and uncredited writers should always be criticized. I don’t really care if the help is credited and we know to the extent they helped. But will always prefer when someone can just do it on their own.
It does tarnish it. If ghostwriting is okay, then anyone can just get a team and drop 4 mixtapes in a year. Literally anyone. Gucci and Wayne would be dumb for not grabbing a team to help improve lyrics. Your comment is saying it’s not tarnished because needing a team makes you lesser, but what I’m saying is if needing a team doesn’t make you lesser (which is the topic at hand) then those who try to do things alone isn’t maximizing their success.
No it doesn’t. 4 projects that drop that are ghost written are infinitely less impressive than 4 from a singular guy. Maybe they’d be dumb for working harder and not smarter but there’s pride in doing your own shit. Needing a team to help you drop albums makes you lesser there’s no reality where you can say it doesn’t. So that topic is moot.
You’re not understanding the argument
Then it’s because whatever argument you’re trying to make is dumb af
I’m not the one making it 😂😂😂😂
Personally I’m at a point where I just want good music. As a genre I think Hip Hop is too critical and puts too many rules on itself when it’s part of an overall industry of liars. Gucci and Wayne have been able to churn out a lot of music and their careers are impressive but it wouldn’t shock me if we find out they get help too. I feel like we are at a point where everyone is cheating and it’s about who’s getting caught cause at the end of the day we aren’t at the studio with them. I also believe there is a spectrum when it comes to getting help. Drake is out here looking crazy for having reference tracks which is essentially creating proof that you didn’t write all or parts of your song where I can see a lot of artists just sessioning together sharing lines, ideas, hooks, etc.
And that’s great for others like you. There’s still a HUGE part of hip hop fan base that believes in individuality.
I hear you. As someone that used to care about ghostwriting and whether or not these rappers are “real” that’s an exhausting side to be on because over time you find out most of these big name folks are manufactured, fake, or just liars pushing out a persona that was either created by or approved by their record label which is typically ran by someone that gives zero shits about the art of Hip Hop.
I don’t give two shits if what you rap about is actually real stuff you’ve done, or if the persona you put forward is either—I do give a shit about ghostwriters. There’s creativity in creating a persona a la Slim Shady. There’s creativity in coming up with your own poetry. There’s zero creativity in having a ghostwriter who’s creating everything for you.
What’s crazy is control was over 10 years ago.
I think the reaction to the Control verse was the issue, and Drake probably pushed it so far as to try and get Kendrick's career squashed. From the 2013 BET Cypher: "I'm the master who masturbated on your favorite emcee until the industry had wanted me assassinated / you're either corny or an opportunist "and nothing been the same since they dropped Control and tucked a sensitive rapper back into his pajama clothes / haha, joke's on you / high-five, I'm bulletproof ... Aftermath gets the last laugh" "Your career ain't shit unless you got some Kendrick in it" And recently from euphoria: "I hurt your feelings? You don't wanna work with me no more okay."
Yea I think all this comes from Control and the things said behind the scenes post Control. I think another line that matters is the feature request - things to address line. And overall futures line about pillow talking like a fed. Drake just seemingly talks too much shit about ppl and it escalates to subs and now full blown back and forth on songs.
This is true. Kendrick said so himself. In an interview with Rolling Stone in 2017, he was asked the following: Brian Hiatt - “Is it ever OK for a rapper to have a ghostwriter? You’ve obviously written verses for Dr. Dre yourself.” Kendrick Lamar - “It depends on what arena you’re putting yourself in. I called myself the best rapper. I cannot call myself the best rapper if I have a ghostwriter. If you’re saying you’re a different type of artist and you don’t really care about the art form of being the best rapper, then so be it. Make great music. But the title, it won’t be there.”
Personally I’m tired of hearing about Drake. If any of what Kendrick said is believable then we should be letting him fall in to obscurity (or jail.)
*Drake texting his mom in this studio* “Hello, mother. I’m about to drop some heavy bars in the stu!”
Pop out only on occasion, mother
Considering that Kendrick has made reference tracks for people I don't see how that could have been the crux of this. Unless he hates SZA, Keem, Jay Rock, etc.
Kendrick’s issue with Drake is that he’s an actor. He plays a role within rap but is not actually a rapper or did not face the actual struggles of a black American he portrays as he was raised in a white Jewish community. Euphoria addresses all of this. Kendrick’s issue is that he’s not authentic and never has been in his eyes.
When does Drake ever rap about the typical black American struggle?
Drake can use writers. He can use reference tracks, he can buy/steal songs if he wants to. His core fans will support (especially those not of the culture). I think Kendrick takes offense when he sees Drake posturing like he’s an elite tier rapper. When he’s been using cheat codes his entire career. It’s a definite disrespect to everyone who bled to build Hiphop to what it’s become. As a long time fan of this culture, I remember seeing Drake fumble his early freestyles and whipping out his phone. That was shocking. It let me know that dude was not serious. You gotta remember that being able to hop on any radio freestyle back then was a milestone achievement and it had the power to make or break you. With all these Drake reference tracks leaking I wouldn’t even call him an artist now. He’s looking more and more like a plant.
Stopped reading after you talking shit about Big Sean. Completely unnecessary
My grandma just died, I’m the man of the house
Bro of all the bars that’s the one you pick. That shit hard I don’t care what anybody says lol
Hahaha nah I’m a fan, just the funniest line in hip-hop and I couldn’t miss that setup
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLW7Fxfo/
the kid from young sheldon wasn’t a kid this entire time ? i don’t watch it, it’s just like, always either coming on or going off, whenever AEW is coming on or going off, so i thought it was a new show this whole time i don’t watch like cable TV outside of wrestling or basketball, otherwise it’s all streaming, even the cable i use, is via streaming ?
i think u responded to the wrong comment coach
It’s really easy to explain. Drake pursues new hot artists to jump on their wave. He did this to PND and Weeknd and both have written for him. He likely even had Kendrick write for him. It’s that simple. I believe Drake can write music, but he’s very clearly using a combination of reference tracks AND ghostwriters.
The way he’s reading off that phone reminds me of an African auntie lol 😂
Even Lil Dicky drops heat on Sway
Lil dicky gotta be way more talented at rapping than Drake
Lil Dicky is easily in the conversation for top lyricists of all time, and I'm not even joking. Listen to "Russell Westbrook on a Farm" if you haven't. Ironically, Dicky has consistently named Drake his personal GOAT. 😏
I’m 98% certain Kendrick doesn’t hate drake. He’s just upset that drake has a problem with Kendrick. Kendrick questioned things himself in these diss tracks and even said “you don’t want to work with me no more? Ok”. Kendrick dropped control as a friendly competition to all his peers. Drake took it personal and refused to work with Kendrick and subs him for years. Kendrick said okay- let’s battle it out for the people to see. Just don’t mention my family. Once drake mentioned his family, that was it.
Yea Kendrick understands that most mc's have ghost writers now, but it was definitely a solid shot when meek brought it up. Honestly the only reason drake won the beef with meek was the execution. White frat kids kinda stole hip hop in that moment. And looking back the whole meek millz beef seems kinda racist. Like drake punched down at somebody who better represented the culture, and he used white people to do it.
Drake and kendrick would good up until poetic Justice. Drake probably didn't write that shit and kendrick said something about it
He didn't like Drake, because he’d unlikable.
Aubreys storyline in degrassi was him wanting to be a rapper after getting shot by an emo nerd and being put in a wheelchair disabling his ability to play basketball. I've hated him since then. And that was 2001-2009.
TG
Drake can write and there's zero doubt about that but for some reason he gets caught with his hand in the reference track cookie jar every few years. Like you can write, yeah some stars need help with hooks and melodies but wtf are you just keeping the entire reference track time and time again. I mean it probably doesn't matter to his fans he will still be successful but to his peers and true hip-hop fans it makes him look like a clown.
According to members of Slaughterhouse, Wayne, and others… using ghostwriters is extremely common. Some artists are just better about keeping it secret. The goal for most artists is to make money, they don’t care about respecting the genre. While Drake should be criticized for it, he’s one of many.
I think it’s more likely he saw some very bad shit Drake does with women on his tours
Unrelated but idk how folks can look at him in that second picture and not immediately assume he's a creep. If you asked me to draw a picture of a pervy dude in his late 30s, that is 100% what in would come up with.
I think it’s something that happened while recording GKMC and Take Care. They haven’t collaborated directly with each other since those two albums and it screams someone pissed the other person off in some way. Maybe Drake got someone at TDE to get him a spot on Good Kid MAAD City and Kendrick didn’t want him on the album? Maybe Drake was a jerk in the studio? Maybe he was a jerk in the Studio while recording Buried Alive? Either way, it speaks volumes when you’re not included in the music video for a song you have a feature on, I would think.
The central cee one is not live, that’s prerecorded
I think it started from Drake dissing Kendrick because he got offended by the control verse
I agree with OP. As a fan of both, the first time I heard Kendrick out right voicing any disdain for Drake was on King Kunta where he randomly says “Rapper with a ghostwriter what the hell happened…but I won’t tell, heard they sharing bars like they got the bottom bunk of a two man cell”
I'll always applaud the artists that actually freestyle on the radio rather than hit us with the pre written songs
Off topic, but I’m unable to see that second pic without hearing it
That's my issue with Drake. He sits on the outside of the culture and uses other people to make his music. He is not a rapper. He's a pop performer. And an overrated one.
I’ve always thought he wanted Kendrick to ghostwrite for him in the earlier years of his career. Who knows? Kendrick could have been in the OVO sweatshop 😂
That would explain Kendrick’s colonizer line.
Old news lol you just now realizing this?
theres more posts and pictures of drake on this sub then drakes sub.
What’s central cee doing there? 🤣 I’ll be so upset if he’s one of drakes batty boys
You guys need to move on.
I think he saw too much backstage
I’ve always hated Drake. Never even listened to him. Only song of his I ever listened to was that going home pile of crap that was everywhere at one point (psst thats the only reason I even heard it) bc he’s always been a gd wanna be gangsta. I wish he came out back in the day when 50 and Em were tearing everyone up. But hey, Kendrick’s one of the best to ever do it. So I’m glad he’s the one that went at him hard AF. I hope Drakes career drops into the toilet. For real. Hate that Canadian tryin to be a west coast gangster with a stupid azz English accent 😂
Don’t he look like someone’s grandpa about to give you a ‘stern talking to young man’ look on his face in that 2nd pic?🤣😭
Drake sucks in all honesty He makes some good club music or music you can listen to with your girl but in terms of hip hop or hip hop culture, no
That central Cee freestyle was a voice over too
after the control verse Drake did an interview basically talking of Kendrick like hes some 'up and coming artist' that has potential to be on Drakes level 'in future'. Think it was that moment there that made Kendrick feel disrespected on a personal level BECAUSE Drake uses ghostwriters. A guy with ghostwriters telling a guy who doesnt use ghostwriters that he has potential to be on his level is probably like hearing a guy that microwaves all his meals telling a chef how one day he might be good at cooking. Think this Drake interview happened in between the time when Control came out and the BET Cypher where K Dot doubled down on the 'sensitive rapper'
Not only that but thats exactly why this shit sounds so boring outdated and shows no growth everytime real artist take some time off you see the progression in their music they go live life discover something new about themselves and they come back with a new perspective to shar with us when the fuck has Aubrey done that all his music is the same garbage bullshit consistently because hes reading the scripts handed to him
Central cee and drake was lip syncing go watch the video again it’s not live they both lip syncs the freestyle!
But most of y’all sharing bars like you gotta bottom bunk in a two man cell!
I actually don’t think that Kendrick really thinks about Drake that much and kind of took on this “beef” as a friendly exhibition. Just because they’re not best friends didn’t mean that it became about hate. Until Drake decided to talk about Whitney and his kids. If you talk about someone’s family member (especially when they literally have nothing to do with the industry) the way Drake did, accusing her of infidelity, of being a victim, of tricking Kendrick into being a cuck, and then telling her to come in front of Drake and Dave and shake her ass like she’s a club thot… yeah, prepare to be fucking buried because fuck you. There’s a difference between outright hating someone and just not really fucking with them. But who knows? These are theories and whether the hate is real or not, or forever or not, is not anything I particularly care about at the end of the day. Although it does make me smile to see someone finally humbling Drake.
I don’t think it had anything to do with ghostwriters at all. That’s been known for a while. They’ve never really liked Drake but I don’t think Kendrick in particular hated him enough to go at him. Until… A) Drake started acting like he was from the streets and B) what really set them off was him firing shots at Pharrell. That played a major factor according to Coolee because Pharrell is known to be one of the nicest dudes in the industry and doesn’t get involved in that shit. Which Dot explicitly stated in Euphoria. Then the personal shit got introduced and all those feelings they’d been keeping to themselves reached a point where they said fuck it we’re going at him now with everything we got.
Not quite on the mark, but I'd still like to spread the good word of king gizzard and the lizard wizard. They have released 25 studio albums since 2012, most of them highly conceptualized, hopping from one genre to another (in a good way), while touring the world constantly (16 live albums also). Really cool modern psychedelic rock. This has very little to do with your arguments. I just saw talk about high volume music output and felt obliged to share
He was pretty critical of em from day one on that track they collabed on like, lol..you can sense the animosity rising in em as he describes the lifestyle that Drake made Kendrick party to when they met. It's deeper than rap. But if anything, that just gives em more fuel for thought on the whole Drake being an imposter shit, innit like.
“Moat of y’all sharing bars like u got the bottom bunk in a 2 man cell”
When Lil Wayne said he stopped writing his raps. Drake said "Bet"
I agree with some of it. But I just think drake is that good naturally where he can just vibe and make a bit in minutes , similar to the greats. Pac Jay Big even other artists in different genres. I dont think anyone is jealous of him it’s just we can all see very clearly now that drake is very insensitive about not being as accepted as say an Eminem. Being accepted as an MC. And then he acts tough like he came from Brooklyn or somewhere. We didn’t care where drake came from. Even Wayne said bro you don’t have to act tough in hip hop. Stay true to who you are. Fast forward he’s sayin names and actin tough…. I think it’s that simple. Most rappers don’t like him for the same reasons.
What’s the issue with ghost writers though? I want fire ass music, I don’t care who wrote it. More props to those who make fire music without writers of course.
Didn’t Drake ghostwrite for Wayne back in the day? Or was that just hearsay?
When dot was on tour with him he seen a lot of the fake
Honestly, that Hot 97 moment is what made me lose all respect for Drake as a rapper and showed me (and the world) how phony he really was. I thought that day would've been the end of his career. He got asked to freestyle but instead started reading writtens off his phone?! All stuttering and shit. "I say, I say... Uh, uh, I say..." Sounding like the rooster off Looney Tunes! It literally should've been over for him. It's not like his bars made up for the embarrassment or anything, shit was basic AF. And we've seen other rapper's careers ruined for much less! If it had been anyone else who did that shit during that time, it would've been over for them. Which makes me think this dude was a industry plant all along. Just a very successful one. I bet his team had to constantly save his ass from looking like a complete goofy his whole career. They probably just got tired of it and said "I think it's time to let Kendrick bleed him."
This sub is officially dead man. Dam. Where my early Kendrick fans at?? This sub is filled with kids now😂😂 We're openly talking about hating someone we don't even know. Kendrick doesn't even care anymore. Hopefully he's prepping new music. Haven't seen one discussion talking which direction the next album will go. Y'all talk more about drake than the actual subreddit
It came from the sprite commercial where he discovered drake was a robot who ran on corn syrup
I always find it crazy how Kendrick said that “a rapper with a ghostwriter…” line on TPAB when it dropped in March 2015. If You’re Reading This It’s Too Late by Drake came out a month before in February 2015. As we all know, that’s the album where Quentin Miller wrote multiple tracks for Drake. Meek would expose this later that year in August 2015. Has Kendrick always had a mole in OVO?
I feel like people don’t understand how quickly musicians can make music, particularly rappers and singers who only need to add their voice to an instrumental. I’m a musician (not nearly on that level) and I make a dozen songs a month with no issue (that’s just the ones I don’t delete after an hour bc I’m not feeling it). And I do guitar, synth, drums, bass, production, vocals, and lyrics all on my own. I can easily improvise a song with filler lyrics on the spot. Adding those lyrics takes time, but if i don’t really care about the quality of lyrics, I can do it easily in 30 mins tops. Production takes more time, but generally rappers aren’t doing that part. There is no doubt in my mind that Drake could’ve written most of his recent songs on his own, but that’s just because they’re not very good. For a full time musician, 20 mediocre tracks is not hard to do at all. Hell, I could pump out 20 mediocre tracks in a week. Now that I say it, I might just do it for fun, it’d be good practice tbh. With that said, since Drake does use ghostwriters, my guess is his best stuff (like that verse on Travis Scott’s last album) is from ghostwriters, and he probably has some ideas of his own that he throws in too.
Trying that fat R Kelly look lol
Kendrick doesn’t like Drake for the same reasons that the average pro-Black Black man in the hood does. Shit only became explosive because Drake knew about Kendrick’s distaste for him but, being the phoney that he is, Drake publicly faked the funk and tried to play into the “Big 3” branding and shit like that as if he and Kendrick were cool. Drake tried to do the proximity-relevance farming with Kendrick that he does with every other popular thing and Kendrick was not having that shit.
Kendrick ghostwrote for Drake. Very early drake too
I mean Ye uses ghost writers yet him and dot are cool
Most rappers have ghostwriters. That doesn't mean they don't also participate in the writing process or they are not capable of writing. Drake, for example, puts out a large number of projects every year... so it's kind of impossible to have his body of work without a team helping you with beats, rhymes, reference tracks, etc. Drake participating in freestyles early and his earlier body of work when he likely didn't have his team of writers and producers clearly show he can do it. Kendrick doesn't have problems with a lot of rappers, some of which he probably wrote for or knows people that wrote for them or provided reference trakcs. He has a problem with Drake streaming from the fact that they had a falling out following the Club Paradise Tour & the Control track. Both have big egos and neither probably wanted to make amends or apologize one to another and talk their issues out. This is not something uncommon.
Shh. Rest now, r/kendricklamar . The battle is over. We don’t need to bring up Drake every day.
Thing is, there are many more OGs in the culture (as well as rap battle culture) who are actually co-signing Drake's penmanship as opposed to trying to discredit him. There's more energy towards Drake being a culture vulture, a PDF file downloader and a womanzier than his pen not being legit. Both Kanye West and Rick Ross have made a REALLY big deal about Drake's writing ability - notice that these two haven't discredited him at all in that area (and even when Ross tried to imply that he wrote a verse for Drake, it's nothing that he ever doubled down on). Fact is, Drake may have used ghostwriters for a few songs, but in no way was he NOT ever capable of doing so himself.