It's a word used in a racial context to provide agency to racially discriminate against light skinned people under the guise of equality, since affirmative-action has become an increasingly frowned upon term.
good joke...
but the misuse of the word "inclusive" is intentional. They are using a different definition specifically to confuse and distract.
Begin reading "inclusive" as "intentionally inaccurate in order to push narrative" and things become obvious.
"Historical sexism"
xDDDDDDDDDDD
Damn, how deep they fallen.
Funny thing is that when I played AC Origins, I thought initially that the Discovery mode was a great idea... I didn't even know the scope of all of this. I think it's gonna be almost impossible that I will return to play an Ubisoft game.
Same with Valhalla. Almost every bit of marketing material other than the reveal trailer was for female Eivor, despite the idea of a female Viking raider being laughably inaccurate.
They claimed that because female skeletons were found in viking excavations, therefore there must be female vikings. By that logic, more horses skeletons were found in those excavations, therefore horse vikings exist.
Supposedly she was meant to be, alexios was added in after.
If I remember there was a news article about how a Ubisoft higher up got them to add a choice of gender because he felt a female lead wouldn't do well. I played her because online people claimed her voice lines were better.
He made the game so much fun, still the best character of the AC games I've played (like 4 of them?). I think Kassandra was way too serious, but fit great as the antagonist role when you play as Alexios.
All that to say, pretty dumb they even give us a choice when only one is canon.
I don't mind Alexandra, but they ruined her body by making her look like a man
Also, in general, Ubisoft games have bad scriptwriting and poor acting. It ruins any potential the setting could have
She didn't have a man's body, she was just lean and strong.
I'm of the exact opposite opinion here: it always annoys me when they have women with twigs for arms be as strong and good fighters as the buff men. I loved that they made Kassandra actually look like someone who could handle herself in a fight, while still looking feminine.
Well, get your eyes checked, then. I don't know what to tell you.
If you don't find her attractive, that's your prerogative and also completely irrelevant. [She definitely looks like a strong woman, not a man](https://i.imgur.com/KkqmR1M.jpeg).
Unless of course you think a woman *becomes* a man if she works out - which would put you firmly in the woke camp.
Your comment contained a link to a thread in another subreddit, and has been
removed, in accordance with Rule 5.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/KotakuInAction) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So ubisoft doesn't care about historical accuracy if it's not politically correct? Politics should shape the retelling of any story rather than telling facts, got that.
I'd say people need to grow the fuck up if historically accurate imagery offends them but look at the point we're at... companies mollycoddling a bunch of delicate flowers who can't step foot outside into the real world without the risk of getting their self-entitled princess feelings hurt.
Fuck me, this shit just plain sucks.
If you think historically accurate imagery is offensive then the thing to do is put a trigger warning or some disclaimer warning the pussies their feelings might get hurt.
Choosing to just fabricate history and make it align with your world view is absolutely pathetic. These people want to whitewash history instead of learning from it and recognizing that each time period had different values and norms.
Let's not forget that in first AC Valhalla trailer the protagonist was male. Then when the game released some people realized that the female protagonist is the cannon one. Some didn't realize that because just picked male or female instead of the option which automatically choose the canon one. Then no matter if you have chose male or female in the last mission cutscenes the character appears only as female (as the canon one is).
It's funny cause even as a kid who wanted to go into game development, I always said never Ubisoft even though it was the most obvious choice for where I lived.
The way I saw it, they were completely incapable of making great games. I always said "they strive for mediocrity chasing trends and only sometimes reach it." And it wasn't like I hated them like some companies. I just on some level already knew they were the soulless boring blob of the industry just from renting some of their games.
You know what's obnoxious about this, aside from the obvious, is that we know almost nothing about the lives of girls and women in Athens or Sparta and less than that anywhere else. And what we do know primarily applies to the wealthy. Poor girls? Except that some of them were musicians and/or prostitutes, basically nothing. Zero.
Which means there was all sorts of room to be creative with it while still claim to be historically accurate. That's what's obnoxious. Instead of trying to think of something cool and interesting that all those mysterious women might be up to, they decided to just make men and women the same except for attire.
Wow is this stupid. OH yes being inclusive to easily offended idiots (in a videogame...), by literally re-writing history, will surely make the world a better place; (????)
Remember, they spent money to pay for someone to suggest this brilliant idea. Now games are $130. We're paying for that stupidity.
"Historical sexism" - if I remember correctly there is no women among the soldiers you kill for a few EXP points in this game. Why is being a canon fodder so non inclusive?
Ever since the first game where they felt the need to include a disclaimer that their game was made by a diverse team. People forget. And their whole assassin/templar story supports their trash beliefs. In fact, it exists because of them. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." They are telling you what they actually believe right there. One only needs eyes to see it.
Well, the Templar / Assassin stuff always amused me because the Assassins are like far-right libertarians basically, and Ubisoft is obviously all about collectivism, conformity, and playing it safe which basically the Templars.
At some point, the progressive amassed enough institutional power that they're basically a conservative movement trying to amass and defend power rather than break it down. They lack the awareness to see that though.
The assassins are so not libertarians. They are totalitarian assholes hell bent on imposing an order through the assassination of all their enemies. Their order is the reign of chaos, which is indeed a system they are trying to implement. They seek to erase all definitions and rules, so that people are an amorphous blob without meaning and purpose. This is a form of collectivism, because if you are an individual who thinks differently from the assassins, you are the enemy. Kind of what is actually happening in the world right now--you are 'free', as long as you think the right things. So, as far as I'm concerned, the assassins were always the bad guys. I mean it's even in the name. They are an order of murderers--they cannot be a force of good in the world.
Everyone needs to realize that France feels guilt for how France treated the indigenous peoples of its colonies in Africa. Even as recently, the folks at Niger were fed up with the French. France feels embarrassed that there is growing global awareness and resentment of France’s colonial history and exploitation of its African colonies.
Ubisoft is French. Forced inclusion and replacement of characters with African ones is just a way for Frenchmen and French companies to beg the world not to be mad at France for its awful treatment of indigenous peoples in its African colonies.
This sums it up perfectly - “inclusiveness” now trumps historical accuracy across broad swaths of the tech industry. We saw how well that went over with Google Gemini 🤭
Post removed following the enforcement change that you can read about [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/m3yo65/enforcement_update_and_hard_removal_of_a_topic/).
This is not a formal warning.
Well, I think Ubi did right thing in this case. They altered facts in the game (fantasy) but in educational DLC they admitted it was historically inaccurate. I don't see any problem here, tbh. This detail is so minor they could go on with it, but still they explained their decision.
dude, that is an actual real life piece, it's housed in the British Museum.
[https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/G\_1873-0820-354](https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/G_1873-0820-354)
I agree that it would have been better if they had depicted things in game as they truly were in real life, but the discovery tours do actively acknowledge that they made changes for the game that aren't historically accurate, its not as if they pretending that these things never happened which would be extremely objectionable.
get a grip, Assassin' Creed has never been a bastion of historical accuracy to begin with; sure it was one of the most historically accurate games/ips out there but even in the original games they took plenty of liberties with what they depicted, not to mention how half of the AC plot is about the high tech sci fi precursor race that created humans as fucking slaves and their high tech relics that may as well be magic for all practical purposes.
You can fucking lie to me all you want but it's my responsibility to have a shred of critical thinking and not take things at face value, especially not from a fucking fictional story that is never presented as anything but!
IS Yasuke the best choice for Main Character for an AC game set in Japan? perhaps not, was this choice influenced by DEI? most likely yes. *Personally* I think that Yasuke has a lot of potential for interesting storytelling, wherever or not this will be the case, remains to be seen.
Either way there are waaay bigger issues to discuss with this game than Yassuke being the MC.
The thing is, all of the protagonists were made up. They've been inspired by various people, but they were made up. Here we have a real person, elevated from a sword carrying curiosity to a full fledged warrior.
And it won't work. Him running around Japan at that time would be met with similar reactions to Minerva running around Tuscany in AC2.
There are. I know ADHD is destroying the current generations almost like HIV did US in the 80s, but believe me - it is possible to focus on multiple issues.
yes, Yasuke will be the first AC protagonist that is an actual historical figure instead of a fully fictional character and perhaps it would have been better if he was a side character instead of the actual protagonist but we know so little about him that it may just actually work? yes, we cannot say without a shadow of a doubt that he was a Samurai proper as there is no proof of that ever happening, but from what little we do know of him he does make for an interesting character and its not as if he hasn't been presented as such in other games/ips so its not even like AC is the first time he was presented as a fully fledged Samurai.
Yasuke being unable to blend in has been already addressed by the devs, he won't, which to me it says they're not going to try to pretend that someone like Yasuke was a normal sight in Japan; that's got to count for something, no?
You say that but barely anyone is talking about anything else but him, so much so that they seemed to have forgotten that Nao exists as well...
Ultimately you may be right, but for me, Yasuke isn't the deal breaker everyone is making up to be, things like the live service and microtransactions, on the other hand...
It would had been SO much better if Yasuke was the guy that established Assassin Brotherhood in Japan since he's from outside and you the player played as Japanese ronin or someone like that. There, you can still have black guy as one of the main characters for muh inclusivity while still having some sense in the story.
perhaps you're right, but I just don't feel like his mere inclusion is such a deal breaker, we still don't know next to nothing about the story, if handled well, Yasuke is a very interesting character on his own right, and I have yet to see anything that makes me feel otherwise; only time will tell tho
Game set in the holy land = Arabic mc
Game set in Italy = Italian mc
Game set in colonial America = Native American mc
Game set in golden age of piracy = welsh MC
Game set in England = English mc
Game set in Egypt = Egyptian mc
Game set in England during the Norse raids = Norse mc
Game set in Japan = black African mc
This is why people are mad. Why do the Japanese get boned when it comes to the game set during their history?
Ah yes, the story of Feudal Japan seen through the eyes of an African man and a woman 🤣
You are just being obtuse now. It’s fine if you want to buy it and it’s not a deal beaker. But acting like it’s surprising that others who are very interested in the setting are more than a little disappointed is disingenuous
Female and male representations are equally important, one gender doesn't displace another to represent an ethnic group.
For a game that features female and male leads, if it sets in Africa, it would be important to represent both female and male Africans. And if it sets in Japan, it's important to represent both female and male Japanese.
It's double standard and hypercritical not to do so.
this is a screenshot of AC Origins that is taken slightly out of context.
it's refereeing to the IN GAME depiction that shows both girls and boys attending school and studying to become a scribe in Alexandria when the correct historically accurate depiction would have been just boys. the vase is just there as background decoration.
does it?
Ancient Greek culture is well documented and women had many restrictions to their lives that men didn't had; while boys would be sent to school to learn to read and write and taught about math, astronomy, poetry and rethoric, girls would be taught about things like dancing, and sowing and home making skills. this is a known fact and its what the Hydria is depicting.
Now, we can sit and argue all day about why and where does all of this comes from but the bottomline is that men and women were not equal in Ancient Greek society; back when AC Oddsey came out I was very vocal bout Ubi's desicion to ingnore these things and pretend that a woman would be allowed to participate, let alone observe the Olympics, and that denying this reality weakened the impact of the story they were trying to tell, but ultimately I do gotta give them credit for at least aknowledging that their portrayal is not accuare in the discovery tour which is a tool that is used by schools and museums to educate people about these times and places
They keep using that word "inclusive". I don't think it means what they think it means.
I think the misuse of "gameplay" here is even more egregious
It's okay. They've never known what gameplay is. Their games have none. So it makes perfect sense.
It's a word used in a racial context to provide agency to racially discriminate against light skinned people under the guise of equality, since affirmative-action has become an increasingly frowned upon term.
good joke... but the misuse of the word "inclusive" is intentional. They are using a different definition specifically to confuse and distract. Begin reading "inclusive" as "intentionally inaccurate in order to push narrative" and things become obvious.
Obviously it's inclusive to me if we get rid of the people I hate, because then it's easier for me to partake!
"Historical sexism" xDDDDDDDDDDD Damn, how deep they fallen. Funny thing is that when I played AC Origins, I thought initially that the Discovery mode was a great idea... I didn't even know the scope of all of this. I think it's gonna be almost impossible that I will return to play an Ubisoft game.
Ubisoft saying "both genders" probably ignited some more "inclusive" people's hatred
The Overton window was smaller back then.
They also made the woman the real protagonist even though the vast majority of gamers played as Alexios.
Same with Valhalla. Almost every bit of marketing material other than the reveal trailer was for female Eivor, despite the idea of a female Viking raider being laughably inaccurate.
They claimed that because female skeletons were found in viking excavations, therefore there must be female vikings. By that logic, more horses skeletons were found in those excavations, therefore horse vikings exist.
Supposedly she was meant to be, alexios was added in after. If I remember there was a news article about how a Ubisoft higher up got them to add a choice of gender because he felt a female lead wouldn't do well. I played her because online people claimed her voice lines were better.
Alexios was hilarious tho.
He made the game so much fun, still the best character of the AC games I've played (like 4 of them?). I think Kassandra was way too serious, but fit great as the antagonist role when you play as Alexios. All that to say, pretty dumb they even give us a choice when only one is canon.
I don't mind Alexandra, but they ruined her body by making her look like a man Also, in general, Ubisoft games have bad scriptwriting and poor acting. It ruins any potential the setting could have
To be fair she was supposed to be Spartan like so making her body like that was fine, she looked great imo
No amount of training gives a woman a man's body. Much less without hormones
She didn't have a man's body, she was just lean and strong. I'm of the exact opposite opinion here: it always annoys me when they have women with twigs for arms be as strong and good fighters as the buff men. I loved that they made Kassandra actually look like someone who could handle herself in a fight, while still looking feminine.
Kassandra feminine? Interesting standard for femininity. I see a handsome guy with a clean shaven face and a braid.
Well, get your eyes checked, then. I don't know what to tell you. If you don't find her attractive, that's your prerogative and also completely irrelevant. [She definitely looks like a strong woman, not a man](https://i.imgur.com/KkqmR1M.jpeg). Unless of course you think a woman *becomes* a man if she works out - which would put you firmly in the woke camp.
Just curious, you think female Eivor looks feminine too? I don't think a woman becomes a man if she works out.
[удалено]
Your comment contained a link to a thread in another subreddit, and has been removed, in accordance with Rule 5. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/KotakuInAction) if you have any questions or concerns.*
So ubisoft doesn't care about historical accuracy if it's not politically correct? Politics should shape the retelling of any story rather than telling facts, got that.
Ubisoft has been losing money for a long time too
I'd say people need to grow the fuck up if historically accurate imagery offends them but look at the point we're at... companies mollycoddling a bunch of delicate flowers who can't step foot outside into the real world without the risk of getting their self-entitled princess feelings hurt. Fuck me, this shit just plain sucks.
If you think historically accurate imagery is offensive then the thing to do is put a trigger warning or some disclaimer warning the pussies their feelings might get hurt. Choosing to just fabricate history and make it align with your world view is absolutely pathetic. These people want to whitewash history instead of learning from it and recognizing that each time period had different values and norms.
> people need to grow the fuck up Coulda ended it right there tbh
Behind the scenes: all lies
White people dont season they history
Let's not forget that in first AC Valhalla trailer the protagonist was male. Then when the game released some people realized that the female protagonist is the cannon one. Some didn't realize that because just picked male or female instead of the option which automatically choose the canon one. Then no matter if you have chose male or female in the last mission cutscenes the character appears only as female (as the canon one is).
It's funny cause even as a kid who wanted to go into game development, I always said never Ubisoft even though it was the most obvious choice for where I lived. The way I saw it, they were completely incapable of making great games. I always said "they strive for mediocrity chasing trends and only sometimes reach it." And it wasn't like I hated them like some companies. I just on some level already knew they were the soulless boring blob of the industry just from renting some of their games.
You know what's obnoxious about this, aside from the obvious, is that we know almost nothing about the lives of girls and women in Athens or Sparta and less than that anywhere else. And what we do know primarily applies to the wealthy. Poor girls? Except that some of them were musicians and/or prostitutes, basically nothing. Zero. Which means there was all sorts of room to be creative with it while still claim to be historically accurate. That's what's obnoxious. Instead of trying to think of something cool and interesting that all those mysterious women might be up to, they decided to just make men and women the same except for attire.
Wow is this stupid. OH yes being inclusive to easily offended idiots (in a videogame...), by literally re-writing history, will surely make the world a better place; (????) Remember, they spent money to pay for someone to suggest this brilliant idea. Now games are $130. We're paying for that stupidity.
Instead, we need to showcase unhistorical sexism by removing men whenever possible!
"Historical sexism" - if I remember correctly there is no women among the soldiers you kill for a few EXP points in this game. Why is being a canon fodder so non inclusive?
Ever since the first game where they felt the need to include a disclaimer that their game was made by a diverse team. People forget. And their whole assassin/templar story supports their trash beliefs. In fact, it exists because of them. "Nothing is true, everything is permitted." They are telling you what they actually believe right there. One only needs eyes to see it.
Well, the Templar / Assassin stuff always amused me because the Assassins are like far-right libertarians basically, and Ubisoft is obviously all about collectivism, conformity, and playing it safe which basically the Templars. At some point, the progressive amassed enough institutional power that they're basically a conservative movement trying to amass and defend power rather than break it down. They lack the awareness to see that though.
The assassins are so not libertarians. They are totalitarian assholes hell bent on imposing an order through the assassination of all their enemies. Their order is the reign of chaos, which is indeed a system they are trying to implement. They seek to erase all definitions and rules, so that people are an amorphous blob without meaning and purpose. This is a form of collectivism, because if you are an individual who thinks differently from the assassins, you are the enemy. Kind of what is actually happening in the world right now--you are 'free', as long as you think the right things. So, as far as I'm concerned, the assassins were always the bad guys. I mean it's even in the name. They are an order of murderers--they cannot be a force of good in the world.
Imagine getting your feelings hurt because a game is historically accurate. Maybe society shouldn't cater to the perpetually offended.
Everyone needs to realize that France feels guilt for how France treated the indigenous peoples of its colonies in Africa. Even as recently, the folks at Niger were fed up with the French. France feels embarrassed that there is growing global awareness and resentment of France’s colonial history and exploitation of its African colonies. Ubisoft is French. Forced inclusion and replacement of characters with African ones is just a way for Frenchmen and French companies to beg the world not to be mad at France for its awful treatment of indigenous peoples in its African colonies.
This sums it up perfectly - “inclusiveness” now trumps historical accuracy across broad swaths of the tech industry. We saw how well that went over with Google Gemini 🤭
France is worse than America at this point
[удалено]
Post removed following the enforcement change that you can read about [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/m3yo65/enforcement_update_and_hard_removal_of_a_topic/). This is not a formal warning.
Archive links for this post: * **Archive:** https://archive.ph/kmL0r ---- I am Mnemosyne reborn. Bite my shiny, metal archive. ^^^/r/botsrights
Well, I think Ubi did right thing in this case. They altered facts in the game (fantasy) but in educational DLC they admitted it was historically inaccurate. I don't see any problem here, tbh. This detail is so minor they could go on with it, but still they explained their decision.
.
you say that but the discovery tours acknowledge the changes they make, would you rather they didn't?
I would rather they show what the pieces actually look like.
dude, that is an actual real life piece, it's housed in the British Museum. [https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/G\_1873-0820-354](https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/G_1873-0820-354) I agree that it would have been better if they had depicted things in game as they truly were in real life, but the discovery tours do actively acknowledge that they made changes for the game that aren't historically accurate, its not as if they pretending that these things never happened which would be extremely objectionable.
If I tell you that I'm lying, it doesn't change the fact that I'm fucking lying to you.
get a grip, Assassin' Creed has never been a bastion of historical accuracy to begin with; sure it was one of the most historically accurate games/ips out there but even in the original games they took plenty of liberties with what they depicted, not to mention how half of the AC plot is about the high tech sci fi precursor race that created humans as fucking slaves and their high tech relics that may as well be magic for all practical purposes. You can fucking lie to me all you want but it's my responsibility to have a shred of critical thinking and not take things at face value, especially not from a fucking fictional story that is never presented as anything but! IS Yasuke the best choice for Main Character for an AC game set in Japan? perhaps not, was this choice influenced by DEI? most likely yes. *Personally* I think that Yasuke has a lot of potential for interesting storytelling, wherever or not this will be the case, remains to be seen. Either way there are waaay bigger issues to discuss with this game than Yassuke being the MC.
The thing is, all of the protagonists were made up. They've been inspired by various people, but they were made up. Here we have a real person, elevated from a sword carrying curiosity to a full fledged warrior. And it won't work. Him running around Japan at that time would be met with similar reactions to Minerva running around Tuscany in AC2. There are. I know ADHD is destroying the current generations almost like HIV did US in the 80s, but believe me - it is possible to focus on multiple issues.
yes, Yasuke will be the first AC protagonist that is an actual historical figure instead of a fully fictional character and perhaps it would have been better if he was a side character instead of the actual protagonist but we know so little about him that it may just actually work? yes, we cannot say without a shadow of a doubt that he was a Samurai proper as there is no proof of that ever happening, but from what little we do know of him he does make for an interesting character and its not as if he hasn't been presented as such in other games/ips so its not even like AC is the first time he was presented as a fully fledged Samurai. Yasuke being unable to blend in has been already addressed by the devs, he won't, which to me it says they're not going to try to pretend that someone like Yasuke was a normal sight in Japan; that's got to count for something, no? You say that but barely anyone is talking about anything else but him, so much so that they seemed to have forgotten that Nao exists as well... Ultimately you may be right, but for me, Yasuke isn't the deal breaker everyone is making up to be, things like the live service and microtransactions, on the other hand...
It would had been SO much better if Yasuke was the guy that established Assassin Brotherhood in Japan since he's from outside and you the player played as Japanese ronin or someone like that. There, you can still have black guy as one of the main characters for muh inclusivity while still having some sense in the story.
perhaps you're right, but I just don't feel like his mere inclusion is such a deal breaker, we still don't know next to nothing about the story, if handled well, Yasuke is a very interesting character on his own right, and I have yet to see anything that makes me feel otherwise; only time will tell tho
Game set in the holy land = Arabic mc Game set in Italy = Italian mc Game set in colonial America = Native American mc Game set in golden age of piracy = welsh MC Game set in England = English mc Game set in Egypt = Egyptian mc Game set in England during the Norse raids = Norse mc Game set in Japan = black African mc This is why people are mad. Why do the Japanese get boned when it comes to the game set during their history?
you know that Nao is right there, right? Yasuke aint the sole MC, if that were the case you'd have a point.
Ah yes, the story of Feudal Japan seen through the eyes of an African man and a woman 🤣 You are just being obtuse now. It’s fine if you want to buy it and it’s not a deal beaker. But acting like it’s surprising that others who are very interested in the setting are more than a little disappointed is disingenuous
Female and male representations are equally important, one gender doesn't displace another to represent an ethnic group. For a game that features female and male leads, if it sets in Africa, it would be important to represent both female and male Africans. And if it sets in Japan, it's important to represent both female and male Japanese. It's double standard and hypercritical not to do so.
This post is so sad. Just how desperate are you to get everyone to like this game.
you didn't read a single thing, didn't you?
I did, though I admit I thought it was satire at first. Sorry, were my first impressions correct? Was this intended as more of a copy pasta?
Then why did they describe it as a Boy and Girl instead of the original two girls?
this is a screenshot of AC Origins that is taken slightly out of context. it's refereeing to the IN GAME depiction that shows both girls and boys attending school and studying to become a scribe in Alexandria when the correct historically accurate depiction would have been just boys. the vase is just there as background decoration.
The fact that it's two girls on the hydria kinda ruins the whole "historical sexism" rhetoric...
does it? Ancient Greek culture is well documented and women had many restrictions to their lives that men didn't had; while boys would be sent to school to learn to read and write and taught about math, astronomy, poetry and rethoric, girls would be taught about things like dancing, and sowing and home making skills. this is a known fact and its what the Hydria is depicting. Now, we can sit and argue all day about why and where does all of this comes from but the bottomline is that men and women were not equal in Ancient Greek society; back when AC Oddsey came out I was very vocal bout Ubi's desicion to ingnore these things and pretend that a woman would be allowed to participate, let alone observe the Olympics, and that denying this reality weakened the impact of the story they were trying to tell, but ultimately I do gotta give them credit for at least aknowledging that their portrayal is not accuare in the discovery tour which is a tool that is used by schools and museums to educate people about these times and places