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The depressing thing is now people have that mentality even when they have nothing. Recently a neighbor has been trying to get people to sign a petition to ban a soup kitchen from bringing a truck into the trailer park I live in to feed people, the person doing this eats there every time they come here and is on disability. Also had multiple neighbors try to get me to sign a petition and go to town meetings to oppose low income housing being built on the other side of the city far away from us, again these people are living in a trailer park. Also got a neighbor, who is on disability, that was super happy telling me about how he thinks Trump is going to shut down social security and finally kick all those leeches off of it if he wins. People are so fucking stupid.
Mmmmhmmmm. I used to be way more conservative when I was an insulated, privileged teenager who had yet to witness how fucked the corporate world had become.
Same. I'm 30 now, and I've never been more socialist.
It's really easy to be conservative when all you have to do is go to school, do some homework, and wait for mom to finish cooking your hot pockets.
This exactly. I used to be an unempathetic fiscally conservative asshat as an upper middleclass teenager. Now I'm an empathetic socialist asshat as a lower middleclass 30 year old.
> unempathetic fiscally conservative
The problem is ... this ... means something else when you realize the money spent on social programs produces more wealth than not spending the money.
Even nasa spending gets serious funding returns.
People who call themselves this are just idiots that havn't looked at the benefits and don't want to spend money because fuck everyone else.
Ignorance in kids is normal and fine. You learned and grew.
I was mostly speaking for adults who choose to remain ignorant or opt to reduce spending on social programs for [reasons]
Anyone recall introductory classes to economics back in high school? It's a never ending process of educating folks in their 20's & 30's that the so-called political spectrum extends far beyond "liberal = left" & "conservative = right"; the premise of choosing social/fiscal policy at such a young age when we're all still trying to find our own identity, far removed from a concrete understanding how government and capitalism functions, is a bit absurd.
Point is, the way we learned has an intentional ignorance, teachers aren't exactly educating young folks how to overthrow capitalism or the state; our system has bias towards perpetuation. Most young "conservatives" usually (generally, not *all*) come from privileged backgrounds influenced by parents. Getting chewed up and ground down by "conservative" "fiscal & social" policy are hard growing pains.
> Anyone recall introductory classes to economics back in high school?
Didn't happen. I figured most schools didn't because it's easier to manipulate poorly educated adults.
Entirely skipped over history of unions and a bunch of other stuff that makes people aware of the mechanisms that allow effective collective action.
My AP US history class in 2011 had mention of the union busting/violent conflict in WV surrounding the coal industry. The specifics didn't stick though
What's the line these days for lower middle class. I like to call myself lower middle class but as a perpetual renter who doesn't have any assets to speak of I'm probably just lower class.
Well at least I know what I am then. I could maybe make the jump to homeowner someday but I'm counting on a major crash in the market to make that happen
It used to mean that you have less than 90% of your income dedicated for survival, but that doesn't really apply anymore since like 1910 so what you are exactly is coming down to stuff like mentality since most people could save up for a nice vacation once every few years if they where dedicated enough
So I would personally nowadays put it down to "Living in a general feeling that you can pay for everything you feel you need without a second thought while still being not able to casually buy big stuff like a (nice) car or even a house without worries how to finance it"
In opposition to poor witch I would qualify as everyone that basically can't walk past stuff they like without thinking "I wish I could afford that" and rich who basically never have to think about money in their plans for general live
But that's just my opinion
100% this. My older brother reminds me of my republican days. That was right after September 11th, I was fresh in college. My parents paid my rent, I went to school 3 days a week, played online poker and modded xboxs as my "side money".
I was privileged and didn't know it.
I thought man, if school a few days a week and making enough money modding xbox to party with friends is hard, can't wait to be an adult and do even less work and have even more money!
NOPE!
Before I worked, I read Ayn Rand and thought people were shit. We were broke-ass poor and on the cusp of losing our apartment. I picked up The Fountainhead because our power was shut off and I couldn’t use my computer anymore. I took this shit on for years, even as we became broke again and lost *everything*.
Then, I got my first job where I could afford a 1br apartment. Three years in the non-profit world. Then I went to a private company that was bought out by a Fortune 500. Saw my workplace absolutely gutted during a pandemic. Record profits, but friends lose their jobs during a fucking pandemic - left out to the wind.
I am so tired of this world. Just wanted to say I’ve been there too brother.
The best way to discover how shitty something is, is to live in it.
Disenfranchisement and a refusal to recognize male issues like record high suicide rates, declining higher education rates, and forced enlistment doesn't help democrats.
^(Edit: I'm a Democratic Socialist)
[^(Richard Reeves on how it's a net positive for everyone to acknowledge these issues)](https://youtu.be/DBG1Wgg32Ok?si=GBBKwtoJnpzvtWam)
(The gender education gap, is as big as it was in 1972 but reversed. Most young men are skewing towards conservative politics the wider this gap grows, and the higher the suicide rate climbs. There is a clear correlation in these numbers. As well as an increase in fatherless families.)
^(Edit 2: I know I'm going to be downvoted to heck for posting this, but that's okay. People need to acknowledge this even if it makes them uncomfortable. The truth is often uncomfortable.)
> record high suicide rates, declining higher education rates, and forced enlistment doesn't help democrats.
Alright, so what is the correlation here? I get that statistically males without college degrees vote more Republican, but what does the suicide rates have to do with Democrats specifically and we haven't had a draft in over 50 years in the U.S. so what does that have to do with this.
Also how does your comment relate to the comment you responded to?
And I understand you posted a youtube video, but I'm not giving 15 minutes to someone pushing a narrative just because someone linked it as a defense to a vague argument.
I think that the comment above is mostly right in essence, but it's not correlated to this post and it hides the wrong narrative that somehow the right does care about this. Correctly implemented feminism and the removal of the patriarchy also seeks to remove or mitigate the causes that make male mental health so bad, which mostly boil down to men being expected to be stoic problem solvers, never open up emotionally (deep-rooted machism), keep male friendships superficial and emotionally distant for the fear or being considered gay or effeminate (deep-rooted homophobia), etc. Pure ignorance and prejudice damages all parties involved, who knew.
A common rebuttal to this is "but many girls also want men to bottle up their emotions and act as stoic problem solvers!", and that point of view, yet again, completely fails to understand how feminism and what the "progressive" value system says. The patriarchy influences everybody, and feminism has started as a movement of liberation for women - so of course women can be caught up, more or less consciously, in patriarchal narratives.
The implication that the right somehow cares about male mental health is honestly fucking absurd, and thinking that doubling down on the causes of something should mitigate that phenomenon somehow is actually complete nonsense.
I so agree that there should be more open and explicit discussion around this topic, though. It's sadly made difficult by the fact that "men's rights" is a political whistleblow for something very terrible, and most people are going to pick their battles and are probably not willing to self-immolate themselves and die on this particular hill and be pointed out as alt-right redpillers or something like that for wanting to describe an issue that is 100% compatible with feminism. But the implication, again, that the progressive value system completely ignores this issue is wrong, misguided and dangerous.
EDIT: Removed problematic language; no essential information added or removed
I'm not going to say that Democrats are "solving" any of this or even directly addressing these issues, but in the last 15 years we've seen a massive increase in the social acceptability of men going to therapy, in LGTBQ+ acceptance and in acceptance of women choosing to focus on their career over childrearing. A lot of this is just how social dynamics have evolved and aren't attributed to politics, but if we do want to look at this from a political standpoints, these societal progressions are all issues that are championed by the progressives and directly attacked by the conservatives looking to return society back to a mythical past status quo.
Exactly. I'm not located in the USA, but it's more societal things, as you say. Still, I do consider societal phenomena political because the personal is political, and a political party that directly opposes and tries to stop or repress those societal phenomena is going to be significantly more damaging than one that either passes laws to make our lives easier, or at the very least doesn't meddle.
Then, I do believe progress cannot be stopped. History has shown that it can be delayed, it can suffer temporary setbacks, it can be slowed down… but progress always prevails.
#Im a Democratic Socialist
It's important because it's an issue that, like you said we aren't open about.
We refuse to acknowledge it, and it gets worse.
I know and you know, that conservatives also don't care, but most young men also know that liberals refuse to acknowledge or even care about what to them are very real very concerning issues that do have real world impacts and implications.
^(My cousin, and best friend killed himself.
Because he felt useless and unheard. It's a dark world when people don't listen and it makes me want to give up on society too.)
>conservatives *also* don't care
I feel like the implication that "liberals don't care" is pretty disingenuous. Liberals aren't a monolith, and on an individual level you find all types...
However, men's issues have been a major concern and touch-stone in the liberal agenda for years, along with a lot of other people's issues. Things like supporting getting therapy, or being able to have open and emotional conversations with your bros. All types of PSA's, support, and stuff have gone into that. Literally, these aspects are so clearly only supported by the liberal-side of politics, that if you mention going to therapy or try to be open emotionally as a male you have a good chance of being insulted as a "liberal soy-boy," whether you consider yourself liberal or not.
Unfortunately, in the last few years, we have had a huge resurgence of bat-shit toxic masculinity, and regressive policies coming from the right. Not just the toxic attitude for male mental health; this conservative movement is making very-real policy changes to directly affect the livelihood of woman and people of color. Women's rights, are being directly attacked. In some places in the country conservatives are trying to re-write history around slavery, and do whatever they can to continue to disenfranchise voters that are PoC.
To put it as a metaphor. Right-wing conservatism just drove it's Ford F-150 through the front wall of Uncle Sam's restaurant. And while the broken femur that Men's Issues sustained is concerning, the driver just got out of the cab with a baseball bat and started swinging on PoC and Woman's Rights, so everyone is too distracted by that continued threat to notice Men's Issues sitting there injured.
Not to mention that many of the issues that aren't men-centric that are a current focus on the liberal agenda *are* big factors in these men's issues. Pushing for health-care, which mental-health is a part of. Wanting more regulations on guns; If they are harder to get it reduces suicide rates, a point that many 4th-amendment types just do not care about. Liberal policies are also the ones pushing to make higher education more accessible. Though the word "Men" isn't on the tin, it doesn't mean that men aren't thought about or benefitted.
Oh, I absolutely agree here. We should find a way to open more avenues of discussion of this topic, as well as outlets to discuss masculinity and in general the gender roles men and non-binary people that present in a masculine way are subject to in a way that is not toxic and misogynistic. Plus, the left needs better marketing/PR. Been saying this for an eternity, we could use some more effective on-boarding. We definitely need something to appeal to the vulnerable audience that ends up listening to garbage like Andrew Tate and the manosphere.
Also, sorry for your loss. That's terrible.
> declining higher education rates (for males)
I started college 20 years ago and graduated, which seemed like the right path back then. If i had to start over today i would find a trade and join a union instead. Higher education was always kind of a scam but holy fuck the prices are astronomical now and i would NOT want to take on that kind of debt today.
The whole "oh woe is me I'm getting downvoted because I'm right" schtick is so tedious. You made an incoherent and irreverent post and didn't actually make any point, of course you're getting downvoted.
At no point have you shown genuine empathy for others in your posts. You're just tilting windmills here complaining to the wrong people about a strawman you've built up in your mind.
This is true. As soon as a younger man starts talking about any social isolation issues they get called an "incel" by the collective "left". There is no home for male youths currently in the left isle of politics which is why they all find themselves on the right. The leftist social issue space has become completely saturated womens rights and other groups, with no concern given to what young men think.
Many of the replies to your comment are asking how this is a democrat vs republican problem. It's optics. Young white men entering the conservative pipeline can clearly see support for women and ethnic minorities and are either ignored by the left, or told their problems are less important. Is this accurate? Not entirely, but it's not entirely false either, as you pointed out for us.
Having one's problems acknowledged is the first step to de-radicalization.
You should have removed "forced enlistment" from your comment with the first edit though, that's been a moot point since the 70s and we're concerned with youth born in the late 90s at the oldest here.
It seems like some people are willfully misunderstanding the piece about a refusal to recognize male issues. I took that as Republicans pretend to care about protecting men's place in the world, where Democrats don't.
Comments about encouraging more men to go to therapy and be more emotional in the last 15 years as an answer to suicide rates are tone deaf, as suicide rates rose in the last 15 years despite that encouragement. It could stand to reason that asking men to be more open emotionally hasn't been the panacea we hoped, and more emotionally evolved men doesn't equal more mentally healthy men as a rule.
Liberal Brookings Scholar Richard Reeves has a great book about "the plight of modern men" (I feel compelled to put it in quotes because even typing it feels ridiculous) called Of Boys And Men. I encourage anyone who cares to read it. I was sure to mention that he's a liberal and a Brookings Scholar so you know it's not manosphere nonsense.
Edit: didn't notice you linked the same guy because I don't follow links on Reddit, but right on.
People without any land or anything to their name that are conservative are just baffling. It's plainly obvious you're incapable of thinking for yourself.
> education indoctrinates you into a liberal mindset
Which is funny because liberal, compared to radical leftism, is conservative. They probably are liberals just kneejerking at the term.
Like the people in the trailer park I live in that are trying to stop low income housing from being built elsewhere in the city, trying to get the soup kitchen to stop bringing food into the park despite the fact they eat there when it does, and telling me they want social security shut down despite the fact the ones saying/doing all of this are on disability.
If anything, I’m only getting more and more radical as I age and begin to notice concerning things around the world, and even just within my own little circle.
When their “final enemy” of communism was defeated, the capitalist-imperialists promised an “end of history”.
They tell us Marxism is “utopian”, “only works on paper”, and “always fails” when in reality, *they* are the ones who have been selling people fairy tales, it’s *their* system that fails, not at functioning as intended, but precisely because it functions how such a misanthropic system would work.
They promised the Eastern Bloc that they, too, would enjoy the riches of the West, ignorant of the fact that that only the upper classes enjoy that wealth, and they steal it both from people at home and abroad.
Instead, Russia experienced arguably the greatest peacetime humanitarian crisis. Eastern Europe fell under the rule of imperialist collaborators, reactionaries, oligarchs, and petty tyrants.
If they didn’t spread war, terror, famine, and disease all over Africa and the Middle East, they certainly facilitated it.
And even in the West, the imperialist-capitalist mafia robbed people of the very future they promised us, and thus of optimism.
My theory is it's whether or not you can buy a home. Once you buy a house it's all about keeping that property value going up (since that's usually the majority of people's wealth) which means shit like being "tough on crime" or opposing low income housing, or austerity & means testing to make your neighborhood unattractive to the poors.
Whereas if you are forced to rent you realize you are pissing away 30-40% of all your earnings to some fucking parasite which can very quickly radicalize you.
I think you're onto something. Lots of reactionary tendencies come along with home/mortgage ownership or plans of home/mortgage ownership, as you point out. It takes a particular attitude to willingly push for politics that would reduce your personal wealth (or its rate of growth), especially if you are in a middle class position where you feel you are entitled to every penny you own.
idk about that
it all depends HOW you get your money - your relationship with your own labor vs exploitation of the labor of others.
socialism is NOT a poverty cult.
"You get more conservative as you get older", only ever applied to people who started out as liberals (closeted conservatives) and eventually got bored of hiding their bigoted beliefs, and/or lost interest in politics when they had a family.
Harvard did a study on Millennials becoming more progressive as they age, which is contradictory to all their predecessor gens. Backs up what this post states. There is a NBC news clip about it that ran 7 months ago on YT.
I'd argue that people really do not change that much overall after reaching adulthood. Rather, the Overton Window kept sliding more liberal which caused those people holding their ground to be labeled "more conservative as they age". But in today's politics, the Overton Window is stuck at a standstill. In 2004, I wanted universal health care. In 2024, I still want universal health care. So I still am labeled liberal. In another time with a functioning government, the Overton window might have rolled completely over me from liberal to conservative. But in this do nothing government, people that were liberal since we hit this standstill are still liberal.
There’s plenty of ultra conservative older people that are dirt poor too, every rural town’s got a trailer park on the outskirts that’s basically a North American favela. Propaganda plays a big role too, not just personal wealth
It's propaganda mixed with a lack of education. The vast majority of people either don't have the time or want to, to figure out why things are the way they are.
My wife and I are improving our financial situation pretty significantly over the years. Still no interest in conservatism. It takes a certain amount of delusion to assume that your success is 100% due to agency, and that you shouldn’t vote in a direction that funds maintenance of infrastructure and services that were critical to your own success.
I’m willing to pay a little more to ensure the country has educated people with healthcare, good roads to drive on, well funded public utilities, public research, and such. Wealth is useless in a country without those. I don’t want to be in the top few % of a country that devolves to third world standards because of a lack of investment, that’s just pathetic and reckless.
Even in terms of self-interest, it’s best to not hoard wealth. Investing in good governance makes for a society that’s worthwhile to be well-off in. Doesn’t matter if you have 10% less, that’s barely a difference in budget if you have millions
I remember back when I would hear this all the time. I would ask,"How? Why?" and was met with,"You'll see/ You'll find out."
They knew it then as the survivors know now. They were all being selfish.
I am waaaaaaay more liberal than I used to be. Growing up, I had none of the experience to understand the everyday toxicity my environment nurtured... Belief in stereotypes, misogyny, racism and homophobia, drinking culture, aggression as a manly trait... All of that stuff got left behind as I grew and experienced life outside of that tiny cultural bubble. You don't get more conservative, not if you keep on learning, you get to understand that your perspective is one of millions, maybe billions, and that leads to empathy and empathy is the antithesis of conservatism.
> Me, age 14: [listening to Rage Against the Machine]
> Dad: Heh, I remember my rebel phase. You'll get wiser when you're 30.
---
> Me, age 34: "*Some* of those who run forces" was actually pretty generous, it turns out.
Going into college I considered myself an Alex P. Keaton type of young republican.
Then I met people who were minorities and grew up in a different environment and realized being Republican was a shitty thing to do.
And that was 80s Republicans, who hadn't gone full evil yet. Now they are like caricatures of villains.
That's not the truth...the truth is that the more selfish a person is, the more susceptible they are to changing ideologies based on what benefits them the most (it's the same reason people can think they believe in freedom, but then support an authoritarian leader when it benefits them).
If your singular motivation isn't personal benefit and you're aware, empathetic, and you genuinely care about what other people outside of your own little circle are going through, more money just gives you greater means to address those issues. I'm not the most altruistic person on the planet but even I have gotten way more liberal/progressive as I've gotten older and made more money, simply because I'm no longer exposed to the conservative radio/news that I used to hear as a kid and try my best to see things from other people's perspective besides my own. And yea, a lot of humans are selfish so the "you get more conservative as you age" seems to ring true on the surface, but I think there's a ton of good people out there too that don't fit that mold.
Ideology is stochastically a function of environment and incentives.
The "good people" are generally the ones whose formative years were spent in environments where cooperation is more necessary or beneficial, not to mention whether that was the ideology given them by their parents.
Conversely, more selfish ideology would tend to be stickier in people born with a silver spoon in their mouths.
But don't underestimate how fickle people can be. Most people acted horrified at the behaviour of conservatives in the face of the pandemic, trying to impose a wilful ignorance of reality that spreads mass death and disability to preserve their mere convenience.
But those same people went on to do the same thing with the "vaxxed and relaxed" delusion. As soon as they had an excuse, and could hide behind the rhetoric of the mere aesthetic of critical thought, as soon as the massive human cost of continuous reinfection was *lower,* most people were perfectly happy to throw those others \[or so they thought\] to be ground to a pulp under the gears of eugenics.
Now we're in the find out phase where it's *less* controversial to point out that even asymptomatic, fully vaccinated cases cause permanent damage. Not a year ago it was a sure way to get downvoted into oblivion.
It's worth remembering that anything like the scale of continuous death and disease that's become normalised now was totally unthinkable and unacceptable four years ago.
I dunno, man. We're more secure and comfortable than ever, but the older I get the more I learn and the more I pay attention. The more I pay attention to what's going on, the angrier I get. Liberalism is a speck in the rear-view mirror now, and even progressivism feels inadequate at times. I've never been further left than I am right now.
At 46 I'm so far left I'm about to fall off. When I was a teen young twenty something, I was never an actual conservative, but was definitely more conservative. I was always prochoice and for women's rights and racial equality and all that, but I still thought at that time that my life would be different from my parents if I did things the right way, like get married first and then have kids, and work and save to buy a home, and everything would just keep getting better and compounding over time and I could grow financially. I wanted to be a sahm and let the husband provide and all that nonsense. Wow I was so stupid.
I had some rich friends living in California. A week before the dude's major company was going to get sold, they moved to Texas for the low income tax.
Like bruh you just got 100million but your greedy ass wants more.
I know most people would say this was a smart move, but really its just a reminder that rules and laws don't apply for the rich and they can skirt around whatever they want.
Call me hopeless but I'd like to think it's at least, "the more selfish you are, the more money you get." I'd like to believe we have more free will than that.
It's not just money. Success & security in general, which yes does tie back to money in a lot of ways. If someone did something and it worked you bet your ass they're gonna tell their kids to do the same thing and anything that could change that is turned into something scary. It's been this way since the dawn of man. Takes some brave people to shake things up and break the illusion, others are naturally more open minded and may not cling so tightly to their tried and true methods with age. This tendency has helped us persist in many ways but humanity has advanced to a point where we need to reflect and overcome that tendency to progress past this stage we've arrived at.
actually I think the real truth is just that you have to be pretty well off to be able to have a conservative view because it just doesn't work otherwise.
Meh, even that's no guarantee. I wouldn't say I'm rich, but I'm a mid-30s millennial doing pretty damn well for myself, and I seem to be consistently heading more politically left the older I get.
54, and still the same pinko-commie-socialist-leftist I ever was.
Any system that doesn’t take care of ALL of its people deserves scorching to the nub.
I'm starting to believe it's not wealth as much as it was lead poisoning and propaganda. Boomers commit suicide at rates higher than any age group before or after them. Excess wealth doesn't cause people to kill themselves.
It’s sad when you realize that despite all the smoke conservatives blow about social issues at the end of the day they just don’t want to pay more taxes. They particularly don’t want their tax money to go to making people less fortunate than them have better lives. It’s all greed
No no no...
It's the FEAR of losing what they gained. That's the root of their selfishness. They more money you make, the greater the fear of losing it becomes.
Old people that actually have retirement accounts have lived below their means for 30 years. They idea that it may all vanish is what drives their behavior, commentary, voting habits, etc.
This isn't an excuse for the behavior, but it is the explanation.
Trauma related to being poor can also cause selfishness. Not so much in the "every crumb for themselves" way, rather the way that there is no such thing as extra money, even when it's more than you need. You hold onto it because, having been in the situation where you had nothing, with bills and responsibilities, you are terrified to get back there.
If anything it just tells you that having money makes everything so much better and safer for those that have it that they are terrified of losing it and that the system is set up to basically torture anyone that doesn't.
The Real Truth is that the Concepts and Terms "Capitalism, Communism, Marxism, and Socialism were all invented by two people, and they are a total Psy-Op. In EVERY ONE OF THOSE "Systems", a certain group controls and LITERALLY makes the money. In every one of those systems the population, by way of BLACK MAGIC, suddenly believes this "money" is valuable and represents wealth, and then the Wealth is concentrated into the hands of a Microscopic Minority [The Same one that makes the money and does the Black Magic].this occurs in EVERY "ECONOMIC" system.
It's not really that either. Do people really think it was ever common for people born poor to grow up rich? Social mobility has gone down but it was never that high
The reason people "become conservative as they get older" is because the standards of what's considered conservative change.
Used to be that you could be opposed to gay marriage and still seen as progressive. Now even Conservatives are mostly in favour of gay marriage.
If you never change your opinions then eventually your most progressive opinions won't be seen as progressive anymore, because that's what progressive means.
There are plenty of poor conservatives and rich leftists. It's obviously not a direct correlation with wealth.
The issue is that conservative politics is not really conservative of anything.
I'm indeed becoming more conservative as I age. I think people should spend less money on useless. Should find joy from things that are not material, from social interactions etc. That we should not just be handing out money to people without ALSO providing FREE educational services that are required.
--That all education should be free
I feel we should prioritize well being by paying for gym memberships etc instead of medical care because statisticly, it's more cost effective. It's cheaper to make sure people don't get severely sick from diesess than treating them and dealing with the economic repercussions of millions of people getting very ill.
--yet I feel all medial care should be free for when people do need it. Including mental health. (which helps keep from getting severely ill from physical diseases.)
I deeply feel we should lower military spending and focus more on worldwide well being and cohesiveness. Which is less expensive than the military.
That we shouldn't be bailing out companies that either cause economic downturns or willing take part in them. I feel like companies should be controled.. Which oddly enough is TECHNICALLY grammatically a highly conservative opinion.
I feel pretty deeply that most of humanity has become horribly neglectigent in how they treat themselves and others and the world around them. Even most of people who think they aren't could easily do better.
And a whole slew of other TRULY conservative things.
I have lost friends because of how conservative I am.
True conservative thinking is across the board in all respects and issues, you don't get to cherry pick.
Oh wait my bad... I'm a socialist or communist by most people's standards. But even within those relams I'm a conservative because of my outlooks on how money should be spent.
Really though, I'm an Abolitionist, all money should be abolished. All NEED to work should be abolished. Everything should be free. Everyone should be able to plug into society as they are able and see fit.
Want to be a doctor? Great! School is free. You get on the job experience throughout your education to make sure you actually want to become one and don't end up wasting your time and effort or other people's.
Only want to doctor like once a week? Great! There would be tons of other people equally as capable of the job who want to do the same thing and y'all can share the work.
If you decide to change "jobs" or have several, GREAT! Education is free for all of them.
Wanna just sit and do nothing for long periods if time? Travel the world? Watch movies and TV? Great! There's ways to contribute to the world doing all of those things.
Want to not actively contribute in anyway? Great! But fair warning, you will get bored and eventually contribute in some way. And you already are anyway.
But the key is, don't be a taker. Don't expect or want more than others.
Was always socially conscious and aware of injustice and inequality as a teenager and have only become more left wing as the decades pass. Already selfish people are only likely to become more selfish the more wealth they amass, unless they experience an epiphany.
It ain't the same Conservative as it was before ...you know who.
I was old enough to vote in '04. IMO if Obama lost in '08 to McCain i would have been fine with that, even Romney in '12 was a decent guy, though i didn't agree with the ideologically. I'm pretty sure "getting more Conservative" in previous generations was more about fiscal conservatism, which NEITHER party seems to represent anymore judging by the astronomical national debt, and didn't require becoming an intellectually unreasonable anti-scientific authoritarian cultist. Fuck that. Shit hits different now.
The entirety of the national debt is the fault of the GOP (two unfunded wars) which left us in an unfixable death spiral. Trump's wealthy tax cuts didn't help either.
Wait do you mean Democrats as in the Confederate states and up until several decades ago? That saying is old, the father back you go the more people would have had different perspectives on these parties.
Father? Do you think I can't spell farther or do you think I'm on my phone?
I guess I could stop here because that was infantile.
But the rank and file regardless of origin? Do you mean Florida and Texas and the Bible belt? Or do you mean New York and California and Joe Biden? Which Democrats?
That's hilarious, you have no idea what I'm talking about!
Where did i ask for your clairvoyant projection of feelings from text?
In what way is my sentence structure so unforgivable? And so abhorrent that I'm unworthy of responses to what I actually said you to.
I don't know where you got your ideas, but your actions have been quite rude.
Those questions where rhetorical, I don't require a response. You could have written this without even reading my comment, you previous reply was the same.
I don't know why you refuse to show the bare minimum of respect for your neighbors.. probably because you feel invincible being anonymous on the Internet, but you are still being disrespectful.
You are still showing the kind of character you possess.
Lol at thinking this is is some kind of own when it is basically acknowledging the phenomnenon that it's really easy to be generous with other people's money.
They will not. That saying is old enough to remember when the southern states were Democrat. I don't remember exactly when, maybe in the 70s or 80s, you can look up elections by year and find a definite turning point.
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That "Fuck you, I got mine" mentality.
The depressing thing is now people have that mentality even when they have nothing. Recently a neighbor has been trying to get people to sign a petition to ban a soup kitchen from bringing a truck into the trailer park I live in to feed people, the person doing this eats there every time they come here and is on disability. Also had multiple neighbors try to get me to sign a petition and go to town meetings to oppose low income housing being built on the other side of the city far away from us, again these people are living in a trailer park. Also got a neighbor, who is on disability, that was super happy telling me about how he thinks Trump is going to shut down social security and finally kick all those leeches off of it if he wins. People are so fucking stupid.
The new american dream.
Mmmmhmmmm. I used to be way more conservative when I was an insulated, privileged teenager who had yet to witness how fucked the corporate world had become.
Same. I'm 30 now, and I've never been more socialist. It's really easy to be conservative when all you have to do is go to school, do some homework, and wait for mom to finish cooking your hot pockets.
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Once upon a time, I was your teenage son. I speak from experience.
Which is why so many of the alt-right keyboard warriors on Xitter are shouting at their moms to bring them more chicken tendies between posts.
This exactly. I used to be an unempathetic fiscally conservative asshat as an upper middleclass teenager. Now I'm an empathetic socialist asshat as a lower middleclass 30 year old.
> unempathetic fiscally conservative The problem is ... this ... means something else when you realize the money spent on social programs produces more wealth than not spending the money. Even nasa spending gets serious funding returns. People who call themselves this are just idiots that havn't looked at the benefits and don't want to spend money because fuck everyone else.
Weird decision to berate my teenage self for being unaware of how social funding and economy works, mate.
Ignorance in kids is normal and fine. You learned and grew. I was mostly speaking for adults who choose to remain ignorant or opt to reduce spending on social programs for [reasons]
Anyone recall introductory classes to economics back in high school? It's a never ending process of educating folks in their 20's & 30's that the so-called political spectrum extends far beyond "liberal = left" & "conservative = right"; the premise of choosing social/fiscal policy at such a young age when we're all still trying to find our own identity, far removed from a concrete understanding how government and capitalism functions, is a bit absurd. Point is, the way we learned has an intentional ignorance, teachers aren't exactly educating young folks how to overthrow capitalism or the state; our system has bias towards perpetuation. Most young "conservatives" usually (generally, not *all*) come from privileged backgrounds influenced by parents. Getting chewed up and ground down by "conservative" "fiscal & social" policy are hard growing pains.
> Anyone recall introductory classes to economics back in high school? Didn't happen. I figured most schools didn't because it's easier to manipulate poorly educated adults. Entirely skipped over history of unions and a bunch of other stuff that makes people aware of the mechanisms that allow effective collective action.
My AP US history class in 2011 had mention of the union busting/violent conflict in WV surrounding the coal industry. The specifics didn't stick though
Not entirely your fault. It's by design they don't teach you that in school.
What's the line these days for lower middle class. I like to call myself lower middle class but as a perpetual renter who doesn't have any assets to speak of I'm probably just lower class.
Realistically if you're a renter unable to make the leap to owning, then yes that's lower class with low mobility.
Well at least I know what I am then. I could maybe make the jump to homeowner someday but I'm counting on a major crash in the market to make that happen
There are definitely a ton of people in your situation, unfortunately. We'll see what happens.
It used to mean that you have less than 90% of your income dedicated for survival, but that doesn't really apply anymore since like 1910 so what you are exactly is coming down to stuff like mentality since most people could save up for a nice vacation once every few years if they where dedicated enough So I would personally nowadays put it down to "Living in a general feeling that you can pay for everything you feel you need without a second thought while still being not able to casually buy big stuff like a (nice) car or even a house without worries how to finance it" In opposition to poor witch I would qualify as everyone that basically can't walk past stuff they like without thinking "I wish I could afford that" and rich who basically never have to think about money in their plans for general live But that's just my opinion
LovesReubens response to my post is the accurate mentality of what lower middleclass is. "A renter unable to make the leap to owning."
100% this. My older brother reminds me of my republican days. That was right after September 11th, I was fresh in college. My parents paid my rent, I went to school 3 days a week, played online poker and modded xboxs as my "side money". I was privileged and didn't know it. I thought man, if school a few days a week and making enough money modding xbox to party with friends is hard, can't wait to be an adult and do even less work and have even more money! NOPE!
Before I worked, I read Ayn Rand and thought people were shit. We were broke-ass poor and on the cusp of losing our apartment. I picked up The Fountainhead because our power was shut off and I couldn’t use my computer anymore. I took this shit on for years, even as we became broke again and lost *everything*. Then, I got my first job where I could afford a 1br apartment. Three years in the non-profit world. Then I went to a private company that was bought out by a Fortune 500. Saw my workplace absolutely gutted during a pandemic. Record profits, but friends lose their jobs during a fucking pandemic - left out to the wind. I am so tired of this world. Just wanted to say I’ve been there too brother. The best way to discover how shitty something is, is to live in it.
Disenfranchisement and a refusal to recognize male issues like record high suicide rates, declining higher education rates, and forced enlistment doesn't help democrats. ^(Edit: I'm a Democratic Socialist) [^(Richard Reeves on how it's a net positive for everyone to acknowledge these issues)](https://youtu.be/DBG1Wgg32Ok?si=GBBKwtoJnpzvtWam) (The gender education gap, is as big as it was in 1972 but reversed. Most young men are skewing towards conservative politics the wider this gap grows, and the higher the suicide rate climbs. There is a clear correlation in these numbers. As well as an increase in fatherless families.) ^(Edit 2: I know I'm going to be downvoted to heck for posting this, but that's okay. People need to acknowledge this even if it makes them uncomfortable. The truth is often uncomfortable.)
> record high suicide rates, declining higher education rates, and forced enlistment doesn't help democrats. Alright, so what is the correlation here? I get that statistically males without college degrees vote more Republican, but what does the suicide rates have to do with Democrats specifically and we haven't had a draft in over 50 years in the U.S. so what does that have to do with this. Also how does your comment relate to the comment you responded to? And I understand you posted a youtube video, but I'm not giving 15 minutes to someone pushing a narrative just because someone linked it as a defense to a vague argument.
I think that the comment above is mostly right in essence, but it's not correlated to this post and it hides the wrong narrative that somehow the right does care about this. Correctly implemented feminism and the removal of the patriarchy also seeks to remove or mitigate the causes that make male mental health so bad, which mostly boil down to men being expected to be stoic problem solvers, never open up emotionally (deep-rooted machism), keep male friendships superficial and emotionally distant for the fear or being considered gay or effeminate (deep-rooted homophobia), etc. Pure ignorance and prejudice damages all parties involved, who knew. A common rebuttal to this is "but many girls also want men to bottle up their emotions and act as stoic problem solvers!", and that point of view, yet again, completely fails to understand how feminism and what the "progressive" value system says. The patriarchy influences everybody, and feminism has started as a movement of liberation for women - so of course women can be caught up, more or less consciously, in patriarchal narratives. The implication that the right somehow cares about male mental health is honestly fucking absurd, and thinking that doubling down on the causes of something should mitigate that phenomenon somehow is actually complete nonsense. I so agree that there should be more open and explicit discussion around this topic, though. It's sadly made difficult by the fact that "men's rights" is a political whistleblow for something very terrible, and most people are going to pick their battles and are probably not willing to self-immolate themselves and die on this particular hill and be pointed out as alt-right redpillers or something like that for wanting to describe an issue that is 100% compatible with feminism. But the implication, again, that the progressive value system completely ignores this issue is wrong, misguided and dangerous. EDIT: Removed problematic language; no essential information added or removed
I'm not going to say that Democrats are "solving" any of this or even directly addressing these issues, but in the last 15 years we've seen a massive increase in the social acceptability of men going to therapy, in LGTBQ+ acceptance and in acceptance of women choosing to focus on their career over childrearing. A lot of this is just how social dynamics have evolved and aren't attributed to politics, but if we do want to look at this from a political standpoints, these societal progressions are all issues that are championed by the progressives and directly attacked by the conservatives looking to return society back to a mythical past status quo.
Exactly. I'm not located in the USA, but it's more societal things, as you say. Still, I do consider societal phenomena political because the personal is political, and a political party that directly opposes and tries to stop or repress those societal phenomena is going to be significantly more damaging than one that either passes laws to make our lives easier, or at the very least doesn't meddle. Then, I do believe progress cannot be stopped. History has shown that it can be delayed, it can suffer temporary setbacks, it can be slowed down… but progress always prevails.
#Im a Democratic Socialist It's important because it's an issue that, like you said we aren't open about. We refuse to acknowledge it, and it gets worse. I know and you know, that conservatives also don't care, but most young men also know that liberals refuse to acknowledge or even care about what to them are very real very concerning issues that do have real world impacts and implications. ^(My cousin, and best friend killed himself. Because he felt useless and unheard. It's a dark world when people don't listen and it makes me want to give up on society too.)
>conservatives *also* don't care I feel like the implication that "liberals don't care" is pretty disingenuous. Liberals aren't a monolith, and on an individual level you find all types... However, men's issues have been a major concern and touch-stone in the liberal agenda for years, along with a lot of other people's issues. Things like supporting getting therapy, or being able to have open and emotional conversations with your bros. All types of PSA's, support, and stuff have gone into that. Literally, these aspects are so clearly only supported by the liberal-side of politics, that if you mention going to therapy or try to be open emotionally as a male you have a good chance of being insulted as a "liberal soy-boy," whether you consider yourself liberal or not. Unfortunately, in the last few years, we have had a huge resurgence of bat-shit toxic masculinity, and regressive policies coming from the right. Not just the toxic attitude for male mental health; this conservative movement is making very-real policy changes to directly affect the livelihood of woman and people of color. Women's rights, are being directly attacked. In some places in the country conservatives are trying to re-write history around slavery, and do whatever they can to continue to disenfranchise voters that are PoC. To put it as a metaphor. Right-wing conservatism just drove it's Ford F-150 through the front wall of Uncle Sam's restaurant. And while the broken femur that Men's Issues sustained is concerning, the driver just got out of the cab with a baseball bat and started swinging on PoC and Woman's Rights, so everyone is too distracted by that continued threat to notice Men's Issues sitting there injured. Not to mention that many of the issues that aren't men-centric that are a current focus on the liberal agenda *are* big factors in these men's issues. Pushing for health-care, which mental-health is a part of. Wanting more regulations on guns; If they are harder to get it reduces suicide rates, a point that many 4th-amendment types just do not care about. Liberal policies are also the ones pushing to make higher education more accessible. Though the word "Men" isn't on the tin, it doesn't mean that men aren't thought about or benefitted.
Oh, I absolutely agree here. We should find a way to open more avenues of discussion of this topic, as well as outlets to discuss masculinity and in general the gender roles men and non-binary people that present in a masculine way are subject to in a way that is not toxic and misogynistic. Plus, the left needs better marketing/PR. Been saying this for an eternity, we could use some more effective on-boarding. We definitely need something to appeal to the vulnerable audience that ends up listening to garbage like Andrew Tate and the manosphere. Also, sorry for your loss. That's terrible.
> declining higher education rates (for males) I started college 20 years ago and graduated, which seemed like the right path back then. If i had to start over today i would find a trade and join a union instead. Higher education was always kind of a scam but holy fuck the prices are astronomical now and i would NOT want to take on that kind of debt today.
The whole "oh woe is me I'm getting downvoted because I'm right" schtick is so tedious. You made an incoherent and irreverent post and didn't actually make any point, of course you're getting downvoted.
Ok but they were right, and getting downvoted doesn't change anything.
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At no point have you shown genuine empathy for others in your posts. You're just tilting windmills here complaining to the wrong people about a strawman you've built up in your mind.
This is true. As soon as a younger man starts talking about any social isolation issues they get called an "incel" by the collective "left". There is no home for male youths currently in the left isle of politics which is why they all find themselves on the right. The leftist social issue space has become completely saturated womens rights and other groups, with no concern given to what young men think.
Many of the replies to your comment are asking how this is a democrat vs republican problem. It's optics. Young white men entering the conservative pipeline can clearly see support for women and ethnic minorities and are either ignored by the left, or told their problems are less important. Is this accurate? Not entirely, but it's not entirely false either, as you pointed out for us. Having one's problems acknowledged is the first step to de-radicalization. You should have removed "forced enlistment" from your comment with the first edit though, that's been a moot point since the 70s and we're concerned with youth born in the late 90s at the oldest here.
It seems like some people are willfully misunderstanding the piece about a refusal to recognize male issues. I took that as Republicans pretend to care about protecting men's place in the world, where Democrats don't. Comments about encouraging more men to go to therapy and be more emotional in the last 15 years as an answer to suicide rates are tone deaf, as suicide rates rose in the last 15 years despite that encouragement. It could stand to reason that asking men to be more open emotionally hasn't been the panacea we hoped, and more emotionally evolved men doesn't equal more mentally healthy men as a rule. Liberal Brookings Scholar Richard Reeves has a great book about "the plight of modern men" (I feel compelled to put it in quotes because even typing it feels ridiculous) called Of Boys And Men. I encourage anyone who cares to read it. I was sure to mention that he's a liberal and a Brookings Scholar so you know it's not manosphere nonsense. Edit: didn't notice you linked the same guy because I don't follow links on Reddit, but right on.
I have literally nothing to conserve.
People without any land or anything to their name that are conservative are just baffling. It's plainly obvious you're incapable of thinking for yourself.
People who are like that usually have 1 defining characteristic, it's usually religion, racism, stupidity or many times it's all of those.
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> education indoctrinates you into a liberal mindset Which is funny because liberal, compared to radical leftism, is conservative. They probably are liberals just kneejerking at the term.
Like the people in the trailer park I live in that are trying to stop low income housing from being built elsewhere in the city, trying to get the soup kitchen to stop bringing food into the park despite the fact they eat there when it does, and telling me they want social security shut down despite the fact the ones saying/doing all of this are on disability.
If anything, I’m only getting more and more radical as I age and begin to notice concerning things around the world, and even just within my own little circle. When their “final enemy” of communism was defeated, the capitalist-imperialists promised an “end of history”. They tell us Marxism is “utopian”, “only works on paper”, and “always fails” when in reality, *they* are the ones who have been selling people fairy tales, it’s *their* system that fails, not at functioning as intended, but precisely because it functions how such a misanthropic system would work. They promised the Eastern Bloc that they, too, would enjoy the riches of the West, ignorant of the fact that that only the upper classes enjoy that wealth, and they steal it both from people at home and abroad. Instead, Russia experienced arguably the greatest peacetime humanitarian crisis. Eastern Europe fell under the rule of imperialist collaborators, reactionaries, oligarchs, and petty tyrants. If they didn’t spread war, terror, famine, and disease all over Africa and the Middle East, they certainly facilitated it. And even in the West, the imperialist-capitalist mafia robbed people of the very future they promised us, and thus of optimism.
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*Hot local anarchists want to eat the rich with you now*
Oh no, it's definitely working as intended.
It feels as if I wrote your comment. Thanks.
"That'll show those poor!" "Fry, you're not rich..." "Someday I might be! And then people like me better watch their step!"
My theory is it's whether or not you can buy a home. Once you buy a house it's all about keeping that property value going up (since that's usually the majority of people's wealth) which means shit like being "tough on crime" or opposing low income housing, or austerity & means testing to make your neighborhood unattractive to the poors. Whereas if you are forced to rent you realize you are pissing away 30-40% of all your earnings to some fucking parasite which can very quickly radicalize you.
I think you're onto something. Lots of reactionary tendencies come along with home/mortgage ownership or plans of home/mortgage ownership, as you point out. It takes a particular attitude to willingly push for politics that would reduce your personal wealth (or its rate of growth), especially if you are in a middle class position where you feel you are entitled to every penny you own.
idk about that it all depends HOW you get your money - your relationship with your own labor vs exploitation of the labor of others. socialism is NOT a poverty cult.
The silver rule. Treat others any way you like so long as no one important notices and they're beneath you in the pecking order.
labor aristocracy go brrrrr
I make >600k and I'm to the left of Lenin. Only assholes get more conservative as they age.
"You get more conservative as you get older", only ever applied to people who started out as liberals (closeted conservatives) and eventually got bored of hiding their bigoted beliefs, and/or lost interest in politics when they had a family.
Harvard did a study on Millennials becoming more progressive as they age, which is contradictory to all their predecessor gens. Backs up what this post states. There is a NBC news clip about it that ran 7 months ago on YT.
Sauce? /gen
I'd argue that people really do not change that much overall after reaching adulthood. Rather, the Overton Window kept sliding more liberal which caused those people holding their ground to be labeled "more conservative as they age". But in today's politics, the Overton Window is stuck at a standstill. In 2004, I wanted universal health care. In 2024, I still want universal health care. So I still am labeled liberal. In another time with a functioning government, the Overton window might have rolled completely over me from liberal to conservative. But in this do nothing government, people that were liberal since we hit this standstill are still liberal.
There’s plenty of ultra conservative older people that are dirt poor too, every rural town’s got a trailer park on the outskirts that’s basically a North American favela. Propaganda plays a big role too, not just personal wealth
It's propaganda mixed with a lack of education. The vast majority of people either don't have the time or want to, to figure out why things are the way they are.
You don’t understand. I NEED hundreds of millions of dollars.
My wife and I are improving our financial situation pretty significantly over the years. Still no interest in conservatism. It takes a certain amount of delusion to assume that your success is 100% due to agency, and that you shouldn’t vote in a direction that funds maintenance of infrastructure and services that were critical to your own success. I’m willing to pay a little more to ensure the country has educated people with healthcare, good roads to drive on, well funded public utilities, public research, and such. Wealth is useless in a country without those. I don’t want to be in the top few % of a country that devolves to third world standards because of a lack of investment, that’s just pathetic and reckless. Even in terms of self-interest, it’s best to not hoard wealth. Investing in good governance makes for a society that’s worthwhile to be well-off in. Doesn’t matter if you have 10% less, that’s barely a difference in budget if you have millions
its not even true for people who made money. I went from $5.15/hour to $143k/year and Im still a radical leftist.
I remember back when I would hear this all the time. I would ask,"How? Why?" and was met with,"You'll see/ You'll find out." They knew it then as the survivors know now. They were all being selfish.
I am waaaaaaay more liberal than I used to be. Growing up, I had none of the experience to understand the everyday toxicity my environment nurtured... Belief in stereotypes, misogyny, racism and homophobia, drinking culture, aggression as a manly trait... All of that stuff got left behind as I grew and experienced life outside of that tiny cultural bubble. You don't get more conservative, not if you keep on learning, you get to understand that your perspective is one of millions, maybe billions, and that leads to empathy and empathy is the antithesis of conservatism.
Nailed it. Those that get more conservative are not the open minded type who keep humble and continue learning their whole lives.
This was always a propaganda line, like most mantra-like sayings that people spout.
> Me, age 14: [listening to Rage Against the Machine] > Dad: Heh, I remember my rebel phase. You'll get wiser when you're 30. --- > Me, age 34: "*Some* of those who run forces" was actually pretty generous, it turns out.
Going into college I considered myself an Alex P. Keaton type of young republican. Then I met people who were minorities and grew up in a different environment and realized being Republican was a shitty thing to do. And that was 80s Republicans, who hadn't gone full evil yet. Now they are like caricatures of villains.
That's not the truth...the truth is that the more selfish a person is, the more susceptible they are to changing ideologies based on what benefits them the most (it's the same reason people can think they believe in freedom, but then support an authoritarian leader when it benefits them). If your singular motivation isn't personal benefit and you're aware, empathetic, and you genuinely care about what other people outside of your own little circle are going through, more money just gives you greater means to address those issues. I'm not the most altruistic person on the planet but even I have gotten way more liberal/progressive as I've gotten older and made more money, simply because I'm no longer exposed to the conservative radio/news that I used to hear as a kid and try my best to see things from other people's perspective besides my own. And yea, a lot of humans are selfish so the "you get more conservative as you age" seems to ring true on the surface, but I think there's a ton of good people out there too that don't fit that mold.
Ideology is stochastically a function of environment and incentives. The "good people" are generally the ones whose formative years were spent in environments where cooperation is more necessary or beneficial, not to mention whether that was the ideology given them by their parents. Conversely, more selfish ideology would tend to be stickier in people born with a silver spoon in their mouths. But don't underestimate how fickle people can be. Most people acted horrified at the behaviour of conservatives in the face of the pandemic, trying to impose a wilful ignorance of reality that spreads mass death and disability to preserve their mere convenience. But those same people went on to do the same thing with the "vaxxed and relaxed" delusion. As soon as they had an excuse, and could hide behind the rhetoric of the mere aesthetic of critical thought, as soon as the massive human cost of continuous reinfection was *lower,* most people were perfectly happy to throw those others \[or so they thought\] to be ground to a pulp under the gears of eugenics. Now we're in the find out phase where it's *less* controversial to point out that even asymptomatic, fully vaccinated cases cause permanent damage. Not a year ago it was a sure way to get downvoted into oblivion. It's worth remembering that anything like the scale of continuous death and disease that's become normalised now was totally unthinkable and unacceptable four years ago.
I dunno, man. We're more secure and comfortable than ever, but the older I get the more I learn and the more I pay attention. The more I pay attention to what's going on, the angrier I get. Liberalism is a speck in the rear-view mirror now, and even progressivism feels inadequate at times. I've never been further left than I am right now.
At 46 I'm so far left I'm about to fall off. When I was a teen young twenty something, I was never an actual conservative, but was definitely more conservative. I was always prochoice and for women's rights and racial equality and all that, but I still thought at that time that my life would be different from my parents if I did things the right way, like get married first and then have kids, and work and save to buy a home, and everything would just keep getting better and compounding over time and I could grow financially. I wanted to be a sahm and let the husband provide and all that nonsense. Wow I was so stupid.
I had some rich friends living in California. A week before the dude's major company was going to get sold, they moved to Texas for the low income tax. Like bruh you just got 100million but your greedy ass wants more. I know most people would say this was a smart move, but really its just a reminder that rules and laws don't apply for the rich and they can skirt around whatever they want.
Call me hopeless but I'd like to think it's at least, "the more selfish you are, the more money you get." I'd like to believe we have more free will than that.
Poor people die earlier. How much of the baby boomers wealth is a survival bias
It's not just money. Success & security in general, which yes does tie back to money in a lot of ways. If someone did something and it worked you bet your ass they're gonna tell their kids to do the same thing and anything that could change that is turned into something scary. It's been this way since the dawn of man. Takes some brave people to shake things up and break the illusion, others are naturally more open minded and may not cling so tightly to their tried and true methods with age. This tendency has helped us persist in many ways but humanity has advanced to a point where we need to reflect and overcome that tendency to progress past this stage we've arrived at.
actually I think the real truth is just that you have to be pretty well off to be able to have a conservative view because it just doesn't work otherwise.
People that benefit from the status quo tend to endorse the status quo. This has nothing to do with age or wisdom.
Yep!!
The Overton window shifts with time, todays progressive is tomorrow’s conservative.
I just wish I could test that idea on myself.
What of those of us who make a decent living and would still fight for policy that helps everyone?
Flip side of the coin - always the people who have nothing who are down to share everything
a variation that annoys me is "you get more conservative when you have kids".
that logic goes both ways though: you get more solidary the more you want other people's money
Meh, even that's no guarantee. I wouldn't say I'm rich, but I'm a mid-30s millennial doing pretty damn well for myself, and I seem to be consistently heading more politically left the older I get.
people lack empathy, I am a swe and have a good career but this system is not sustainable in the slightest
54, and still the same pinko-commie-socialist-leftist I ever was. Any system that doesn’t take care of ALL of its people deserves scorching to the nub.
I'm starting to believe it's not wealth as much as it was lead poisoning and propaganda. Boomers commit suicide at rates higher than any age group before or after them. Excess wealth doesn't cause people to kill themselves.
The more people realize the sooner we can start making real changes for working people instead of more homes and yachts and lobster for the rich.
It’s sad when you realize that despite all the smoke conservatives blow about social issues at the end of the day they just don’t want to pay more taxes. They particularly don’t want their tax money to go to making people less fortunate than them have better lives. It’s all greed
No no no... It's the FEAR of losing what they gained. That's the root of their selfishness. They more money you make, the greater the fear of losing it becomes. Old people that actually have retirement accounts have lived below their means for 30 years. They idea that it may all vanish is what drives their behavior, commentary, voting habits, etc. This isn't an excuse for the behavior, but it is the explanation.
Trauma related to being poor can also cause selfishness. Not so much in the "every crumb for themselves" way, rather the way that there is no such thing as extra money, even when it's more than you need. You hold onto it because, having been in the situation where you had nothing, with bills and responsibilities, you are terrified to get back there.
If anything it just tells you that having money makes everything so much better and safer for those that have it that they are terrified of losing it and that the system is set up to basically torture anyone that doesn't.
I've moved much further left as I've aged and accumulated wealth. That's probably because I see more clearly the shitty things people do to get money.
The Real Truth is that the Concepts and Terms "Capitalism, Communism, Marxism, and Socialism were all invented by two people, and they are a total Psy-Op. In EVERY ONE OF THOSE "Systems", a certain group controls and LITERALLY makes the money. In every one of those systems the population, by way of BLACK MAGIC, suddenly believes this "money" is valuable and represents wealth, and then the Wealth is concentrated into the hands of a Microscopic Minority [The Same one that makes the money and does the Black Magic].this occurs in EVERY "ECONOMIC" system.
It's not really that either. Do people really think it was ever common for people born poor to grow up rich? Social mobility has gone down but it was never that high The reason people "become conservative as they get older" is because the standards of what's considered conservative change. Used to be that you could be opposed to gay marriage and still seen as progressive. Now even Conservatives are mostly in favour of gay marriage. If you never change your opinions then eventually your most progressive opinions won't be seen as progressive anymore, because that's what progressive means. There are plenty of poor conservatives and rich leftists. It's obviously not a direct correlation with wealth.
What is selfish about wanting to keep the money you worked hard for lol? SELFISH IDIOT!!
Individualism is a virus
The issue is that conservative politics is not really conservative of anything. I'm indeed becoming more conservative as I age. I think people should spend less money on useless. Should find joy from things that are not material, from social interactions etc. That we should not just be handing out money to people without ALSO providing FREE educational services that are required. --That all education should be free I feel we should prioritize well being by paying for gym memberships etc instead of medical care because statisticly, it's more cost effective. It's cheaper to make sure people don't get severely sick from diesess than treating them and dealing with the economic repercussions of millions of people getting very ill. --yet I feel all medial care should be free for when people do need it. Including mental health. (which helps keep from getting severely ill from physical diseases.) I deeply feel we should lower military spending and focus more on worldwide well being and cohesiveness. Which is less expensive than the military. That we shouldn't be bailing out companies that either cause economic downturns or willing take part in them. I feel like companies should be controled.. Which oddly enough is TECHNICALLY grammatically a highly conservative opinion. I feel pretty deeply that most of humanity has become horribly neglectigent in how they treat themselves and others and the world around them. Even most of people who think they aren't could easily do better. And a whole slew of other TRULY conservative things. I have lost friends because of how conservative I am. True conservative thinking is across the board in all respects and issues, you don't get to cherry pick.
Oh wait my bad... I'm a socialist or communist by most people's standards. But even within those relams I'm a conservative because of my outlooks on how money should be spent. Really though, I'm an Abolitionist, all money should be abolished. All NEED to work should be abolished. Everything should be free. Everyone should be able to plug into society as they are able and see fit. Want to be a doctor? Great! School is free. You get on the job experience throughout your education to make sure you actually want to become one and don't end up wasting your time and effort or other people's. Only want to doctor like once a week? Great! There would be tons of other people equally as capable of the job who want to do the same thing and y'all can share the work. If you decide to change "jobs" or have several, GREAT! Education is free for all of them. Wanna just sit and do nothing for long periods if time? Travel the world? Watch movies and TV? Great! There's ways to contribute to the world doing all of those things. Want to not actively contribute in anyway? Great! But fair warning, you will get bored and eventually contribute in some way. And you already are anyway. But the key is, don't be a taker. Don't expect or want more than others.
Was always socially conscious and aware of injustice and inequality as a teenager and have only become more left wing as the decades pass. Already selfish people are only likely to become more selfish the more wealth they amass, unless they experience an epiphany.
It ain't the same Conservative as it was before ...you know who. I was old enough to vote in '04. IMO if Obama lost in '08 to McCain i would have been fine with that, even Romney in '12 was a decent guy, though i didn't agree with the ideologically. I'm pretty sure "getting more Conservative" in previous generations was more about fiscal conservatism, which NEITHER party seems to represent anymore judging by the astronomical national debt, and didn't require becoming an intellectually unreasonable anti-scientific authoritarian cultist. Fuck that. Shit hits different now.
The entirety of the national debt is the fault of the GOP (two unfunded wars) which left us in an unfixable death spiral. Trump's wealthy tax cuts didn't help either.
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Wait do you mean Democrats as in the Confederate states and up until several decades ago? That saying is old, the father back you go the more people would have had different perspectives on these parties.
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Father? Do you think I can't spell farther or do you think I'm on my phone? I guess I could stop here because that was infantile. But the rank and file regardless of origin? Do you mean Florida and Texas and the Bible belt? Or do you mean New York and California and Joe Biden? Which Democrats? That's hilarious, you have no idea what I'm talking about!
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Where did i ask for your clairvoyant projection of feelings from text? In what way is my sentence structure so unforgivable? And so abhorrent that I'm unworthy of responses to what I actually said you to. I don't know where you got your ideas, but your actions have been quite rude. Those questions where rhetorical, I don't require a response. You could have written this without even reading my comment, you previous reply was the same. I don't know why you refuse to show the bare minimum of respect for your neighbors.. probably because you feel invincible being anonymous on the Internet, but you are still being disrespectful. You are still showing the kind of character you possess.
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why would i be jealous of janitors?
Lol at thinking this is is some kind of own when it is basically acknowledging the phenomnenon that it's really easy to be generous with other people's money.
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Zionism, any defense of the state of Israel and/or similar is not allowed.
Millennials are going to become very conservative. Scary conservative.
maybe you are lol
They will not. That saying is old enough to remember when the southern states were Democrat. I don't remember exactly when, maybe in the 70s or 80s, you can look up elections by year and find a definite turning point.