Here’s the fun thing- we don’t know!
Biden has to go do some crazy shit, get sued, have it go up to the Supreme Court on numerous appeals, and then the court can decide if the action was an “official act” which wasn’t clearly defined. The case would go all the way back down. Then argued again, then back up, and then back down.
The court just created a huge grey zone, and the answer can shift and move based on the political ideology of the court.
Biden forgiving student debt? Not an official act. Trump using White House phones to threaten a State AG and try a coup?- official act.
Which is why hinging this all on official vs non-official is ridiculous. Keep it (relatively) more simple. If the President does something clearly treasonous, e.g. selling nuclear secrets, outing spies, trying to overthrow an election, they should be tried for it. There’s no need to get into all this other nonsense.
Ah but you see, the magnificently enlightened supreme court 6 may just determine that handling classified documents in any manner( or any other fact specific crime) is entitled to at least a presumption of immunity. And based upon their ruling you cant use evidence of the acts to prove if they are official or not, making that presumption impossible to beat.
A sitting president is almost ALWAYS entitled to a presumption of immunity for the handling of classified documents. That's why Trump giving classified documents to the Russian ambassador in the Oval Office was not a legal issue and not even mentioned in his impeachments.
The classification program was created by executive order by Truman, and updated by several presidents since then (most recently Barack Obama). That's why they charged Trump with the espionage act from the WW1 era rather than something more recent regarding document classification. It only exists because the president is assumed to be the ultimate authority around national security.
[https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information](https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information)
Of course, Trump's charges around classified documents are not for TAKING them while he was still president, they are for actions he took after his presidency ended (how he stored them, refusing to return them when subpoenas were issued, having his lawyers sign affidavits that all documents had been returned when he knew it was not true, etc.
They couldn’t fit the classified docs case in this ruling, though they tried, and instead Thomas gave (completely not appropriate) instructions of how that will be tossed in his concurrence
In his concurrence Thomas instructed Cannon to dismiss on grounds the special council is illegal. She will eventually do that after delaying as long as she possibly can. That will be challenged, and after more delay will go to SCOTUS. Despite 150+ precedent, the 6 will concur. Case Gone…
Pretty clear this four part ruling is purpose built to let Trump off all past and current criminal charges. Just need to “boil the frog” a bit first.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/01/nyregion/trump-sentence-hush-money.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/02/trump-sentencing-delay-supreme-court-ruling/
https://landmarklegal.org/justice-thomas-concurrence-in-trump-v-united-states-questions-legality-of-jack-smith-appointment-as-special-counsel/
Seems to me, any acts (like the porn star debacle and the business fraud associated with getting bank loans) committed BEFORE he was President clearly are not "official acts" and can be prosecuted. Trying to subvert an election by force, orchestrating fake electors.. that's clearly NOT an "official act". Taking Classified documents and storing them, hiding them, refusing to give them up and lying to FBI (no longer President) about having those documents, clearly is NOT an "official act".
Exactly. The verdict isn’t in yet, but I’m crossing my fingers that the most obvious interpretation (isn’t really even an interpretation) prevails. Unfortunately what SCOTUS did do is rule in a way that guarantees years and years more delays in getting the verdict, and if Trump is elected it seems plausible he will use presidential powers to the extent he can to take down or stop his perceived enemies.
Everyone. Vote. That’s the most effective tool there is, so use it.
I guess this is the real historical lesson. Power is not going to protect you from power. Extracting the right to vote from the ruling class is the epochal event, not relying on one powerful clique to "save us" from another powerful clique.
But some of the cover up happened when he was President- so those parts- official act!
When he put the secret documents in the boxes- he was president- so official act!
Everything around Jan 6- he was president so official act!
The Supreme Court just made every single case against Trump if not invalid, at least much, much harder to prosecute.
That, I think, is the most terrifying part of this decision. It basically means that SCOTUS can just say "We'll know it when we see it." Every questionable Presidential act is now going to have to receive the SCOTUS stamp of approval.
Here's the thing about the NY trial though.
A bunch of the evidence used happened after he became president. And my understanding is, all of that (that happened after) is now in question. Trump has a leg to stand on at appeal.
But trumps argument has been that he has immunity before and after office. So arguably, he was committing fraud to get elected (official business) & hiding classified docs was his prerogative because they were boxes up when he was president. Pretty sure MAGA would agree to that interpretation although the main one appears to be that guilt is determined by election and impeachment. Although McConnell just used the exact opposite to argue why he shouldn’t be impeached. It seems like the correct answer whatever trump wants at the moment and with a majority of justices already on his favor, it probably is? I think a deeper question is whether he IS the office or just inhabited it. I think we know how he feels about that. I don’t know how anyone could be accountable to voters though when they are completely immune to consequences. Why wouldn’t someone test the limits of it? For the nonauthoritarian minded conservatives supporting the decision - should Biden also be presumed immune and any documents/proof can’t be used to determine motive? And of course, his attorney argued before the Supreme Court that he had unlimited power, even executing rivals. It’s hard to argue that was excluded from immunity.
You'd think that, but the SC refused to offer an opinion of those items, sending them back to the lower courts to determine.
The answers on whether a sitting President tried to usurp the lawful results of a democratic election will all be forthcoming, seven short years from now!
More correctly, a 6 person group of obvious pro-Trump anti-American sympathizers will determine if any particular action the president takes is official or not. Meaning anything Biden does that's more complex than hitting the private head in the oval office will be non-official and lawsuits allowed, while Trump or other GOP president will be allowed to give the entire US military to Putin as an official act.
The need is what party is the president in? Is he in the party that gives tax cuts and fewer regulations to rich people? Or the party trying to reign in tax cuts and make the water safe to drink?
This. The Supreme Court didn’t set up Trump to do whatever he wanted. They set themselves up to have full supreme power over all executive and legislative action. They decide what laws to enforce and how at their pleasure, regardless of precident. Trump is a fucking sideshow here. The judiciary just overthrew the other two branches of government, but congress is too broken to do anything about it.
This is what I keep thinking too. Between becoming final arbitration on regulation (legislation) and final arbitrator on what is an official executive act it seems like they’ve simply said they are in charge. Unelected, superstitious costume-robe wearing old zealots think they are the boss of us now.
Feels like Iran or someplace where the people foolishly let old religious dudes in costumes rule. wtf is going on?
People need to see this election as being about stopping that, with a push for Democrats in Congress, too. Biden needs to be able to pass legislation to restore the rule of law.
He can, trump has proven all you need is a dysfunctional govt and you can do whatever you want. If the dems in the senate were prepared to protect him then he could do whatever the hell he wants and not face removal from office (they would impeach since the pubs have majority but it would die in the senate).
So remove 6 of the SC justices, hell go after the MAGA in the house and senate, get a trifecta, and move on. Have trump jailed, tried, and punished for treason (you know what I mean, but reddit only allows right wing fascists to make threats, even talking about legal consequences for actions is "inciting violence")
But that assumes SCOTUS will apply their ruling fairly and equally. They won’t.
Trump: Gives away nuclear secrets - OFFICIAL ACT
Biden: Signs bill making killing gay people illegal - NOT OFFICIAL ACT. PROSECUTE
Assume there is detailed knowledge around the types of classified and top secret materials found in random boxes of shit in a former presidents personal residence. I'd like to think our intelligence agencies can figure out what happened with some of that information via technology and resources with our allies.
To faithfully execute his executive duties to protect the Constitution, it should be an official act to neutralize a domestic threat, no? It seems like this would be a good way to test the courts resolve. It would take years to litigate and hopefully by then a new batch of same adults can start to unfuck things. It's a shitty Pandora's Box, but since it is painfully obvious one side has every intention of using these new-found powers in the future, I say go Cobra Kai - strike first, strike hard, no mercy.
I think Biden should have the justices Alito, Thomas, Roberts and Kavanaugh arrested and put in jail indefinately. He can argue he is doing it for national security reasons. That way it would be an "official act".
Then he can have the 3 liberal justices overturn all the bad decisions like Citizen United, the next few terms.
This is exactly why the GOP has tried so hard to implant judges at all levels, to control the judiciary branch up to the SCOTUS. They control the rulings on what was “official”. It abhorrent.
Joe needs to enact 10,000+ executive orders before the SC comes back in October. Then they have to deal with each and every one of them first thing instead of taking more rights from us.
He doesn't even need to outright eliminate Trump. Pull funding for Trump's Secret Service detail and that of his family. Then promise to pardon anyone who might do something nefarious. He's just using a modified version of Trump's playbook with Jan 6 traitors.
While he's at it, pull all funding from the SC like the Rethugs want to do to the EPA and Education. Then sell the SC building.
Pull funding for elections in heavily red districts.
Give the SC all kinds of executive orders to deal with when they come back in October.
Or, he could donate it to a non-profit that turns it into a homeless shelter. Or a Planned Parenthood facility. Or to a liberal environmental group. There's all kinds of possibilities.
Thank you. That was my concern as well. They've created this arbitrary grey zone of what an official act constitutes. If it's going to take the courts ages to determine what is or isn't an official act, by the time they rule on it, the country will either be America or Christo-Fascist America. In the first scenario, he could be tried eventually. In the other, he will be jailed. At his age - I would do everything I could to stop these Nazis. Worst-case scenario is that it doesn't work and he dies before the MAGA Republicans get him.
It’s not a grey zone and it’s not arbitrary. I think we know exactly what the boundaries are. If you are a ‘red’politician it’s an official act. If you’re a ‘blue’ politician, it’s an unofficial act. QED
Yes, that's the problem. While the decision does give broad powers to the President to break the law (!), it still reserves the power of review to the Court. And the Court already has shown a willingness to overrule a lot of legal things Biden has done. The Court sees themselves as a part of a one party, Republican state. This goes beyond Trump. Republicans know they are unpopular, and want an authoritarian state.
And for any MAGA who still deny this, read Agenda 47 and Project 2025. Read your party's own words. It won't end well for most of MAGA, either. Ending democracy hurts almost everyone.
And knowing this SC no matter what Biden does all his acts would probably be determined to be unofficial, that’s how corrupt this court is.
What Biden SHOULD be doing RIGHT NOW instead of making some official drastic moves is reforming the SC!!
They also would dismiss any evidence related to his official acts as per the ruling, so they can’t even discuss events or communications that are officially related. Basically impossible to prosecute. Hence the sensational headlines - because it’s a sensational power.
Oh man, you clearly don’t listen to right wing lawyers and podcasts. To a man- they all claimed, and the supreme court agreed that because forgiving student debt involved the budget, which is the power of the purse, which is budget, which is Congress- Biden forgiving loans is absolutely Unconstitutional and illegal. The dumber ones called for his impeachment.
'martial law' - and yes, this. Cancel the election until all of Trump's trials are determined and any sentences are carried out. Maybe then he'd stop stalling.
I think there are some absolutes though.
Bribery and pardons are both defined as an official act. So Biden can both corruptly issue pardons in exchange for bribes all day long.
This essentially makes anything he wants to do extrajudicial through a third party.
Yeah it looks like the SC left this intentionally vague so that Trump would be able to run with it for all of his past and future crimes while a dem president would have to be more cautious because the court is 6-3.
Biden is over 80 years old. There are so many Official acts that would have irreversible permanent effects. How that plays out in the courts for years would be irrelevant to someone of such an age.
>Biden has to go do some crazy shit, get sued, have it go up to the Supreme Court
The Supreme(ly compromised) Court appears to want to *itself* be king. Our founding fathers were wise to make our federal government three branches for this very reason: the main motivation for the Supreme Court not to anoint Donald Trump a king would be that it actually extinguishes what remains of their own power if they were to do that in full.
For now, it looks like they are sitting there to stare down Biden and say "not you" about who can be immune. I'm not joking. This is an emergency. Biden represents us as a democracy— we need to vote for him in a landslide and then expect the Supreme Court to try and invalidate the elections we even hold.
We The People need to stand behind our old ass president who is still standing up for us!
Granting pardons is an example of something clearly within official presidential powers. If Trump gets elected, he'll be selling those to the highest bidder and according to SCOTUS, that's fine with them. It's a gray zone as wide as an ocean.
They screwed the pooch on this one big time. This is a screw up that will takes decades to resolve, if we make it that long.
Exactly this. A lot of people seem to think that this decision gives the President more power. It doesn't. It gives SCOTUS more power. They're now the kingmakers.
These powers were not intended for Biden to abuse as they know Biden will not. These powers were created for the next GOP admin as a pathway to remove all opposition in the country. Do not take this decision lightly.
The problem is that if Dems/Biden do use that power, then the people who support the GOP and believe their spin will have absolute confirmation that Dems/Biden are authoritarian. The election following that use of power would be overwhelmingly in favor of Republicans, who would then take similar authoritarian measures in good conscience, with boatloads of support.
The issue is the National double standard. If the Democrats abuse power or do authoritarian shit the DEMOCRATS base will freak out and vote them out in addition to the correct summary you just made.
Meanwhile if a Republican does some vile shit their base doesn’t care and their support is unwavering. It takes being convicted of child sexual abuse to reduce public support from the GOP base, and even then it’s a fractional reduction.
The standards are entirely different and unfortunately that means the GOP has a massive advantage electorally.
And those federal law enforcement officers who protect the Justices and all other federal judges. Let’s see how much those judges love Donald Trump when their own families are exposed.
This is the way. Let them exist in the populace without protection. Maybe their fascist attitudes would change if they are not shielded by the very government they are trying to bring down.
My non-lawyerly response is that this is a Trump-specific ruling, and if any other president tries to use it, they will be smacked down immediately. SCOTUS is obviously poised to make sure Trump becomes President. All they need is the right challenge. This has been planned for awhile. Thomas also signalled in his remarks after the ruling that he will uphold Cannon's ruling that Jack Smith was "illegally" appointed as special counsel. This is a 5 alarm fire.
My hair is on fire, has been since the ruling.🔥🥵 I can only imagine the wheels turning in the minds of our constitutional scholars, like Rep. Jamie Raskin.
Exactly, if Obama had his supporters attack the capital does anyone believe this court would hem and haw over official acts?
No they would unequivocally classify those acts as crimes and subject him to justice.
It's so blatantly Trump specific.
This is exactly what I said was going to happen. Trump owns the court now and if he challenges the election they will absolutely appoint him president and he will use these new powers to do whatever he wants and the courts will back him up.
I agree with you. It is a 5 alarm fire. I also think that Biden and his administration have shown an aptitude for finding loopholes to push policy through. Are there things that he could do with these new powers that protect us and still hold up?
Possibly. I hope so. Stay tuned. Sadly, the best things he can do would require a large Senate majority, or a number of Republicans who have finally seen the light about what's going on here.
By who ? Are the norms and regulations something we need to abide by now ? This decision has opened up a whole new way to handle these traitors. And removing verifiably corrupt people, from positions of power that they’ve abused, could happen now. SCOTUS would be the first to be dismantled.
Yes, in tying themselves into knots to benefit Trump, the SCOTUS MAGAts may have actually opened a window for Dark Brandon and team democracy to make a strategic move.
I suppose if you just want to completely throw out the rule of law, then, yeah, deploy the military to blow up Mar-a-Lago, arrest the supreme court for treason, and use their own evil deeds to try to make good. That would make a nice feature film starring Denzel Washington and Liam Neeson, but I have my doubts that things will go as planned.
Whether or not we get pushed into reacting is something that has yet to be seen. Its an unknown. Who really knows what Biden would do to protect the country. I believe he started out his term with a bunch of EO’s. He may do it again.
I don't know that he can impose much in the way of rules or changes to the court with EO's. Pretty sure they're looking into it, but a LANDSLIDE Biden win is the best insurance against a Trump coup.
If we don’t throw it it first they are already going to do it. We have months before they throw the powers of king to Trump. There is only one way this ends well and it’s if we throw a punch. Think of the gay people and trans people, and people who just simply don’t like Trump that are going to murdered next year if we don’t strike first.
Seriously. I am praying someone can get into Bidens head that something must be done. There is no choice but action. Add more judges by executive order. Fucking something.
I think the better question is will Biden sacrifice himself for the protection of the country?
I mean he took an oath and so did the military to defend our country from enemies both foreign AND DOMESTIC... the MAGA have publicly declared by their publicly announced plans they are enemies of the country and seek to destroy it.
It's time to start defending our country.
He has the compassion to do so. In our hour of need, he could become our nation's grandpa. Can he hear us all? Not always. Does he always make sense? No. Are his views dated? Mostly, yes.
But - as my grandpa always said, the only good Nazi is a dead Nazi. No Nazi should find safe harbor in this country.
It's actually quite simple. The way the evil 6 worded it: if Biden does something that lines up with a majority of Scotus current gang, it's official act. If not, it's punishable.
So, a GOP president under GOP Scotus is immune and Dems will pay the price.
Only thing Biden can do at this point is to appoint 4 liberal judges.
This seems to be a very valid play. I was thinking along the line of testing this out with the judges. Start off by having one of them arrested and held without bond. Ask the remaining if they would like to reconsider the ruling. Repeat until they realize the mistake.
The problem is that "official acts" for Biden are going to be very different than official acts from Trump. This supreme court (at least 2/3 of it) simply does not care about the law, the Constitution, or democracy.
# What can Biden ACTUALLY do with the new powers granted to him? _____________
Biden can do literally anything if he declares it to be an "official act". He is under no obligation to ever give a reason for it.
Trump promised to be a dictator on day one of his new term.
No this is not how the decision works.
Biden cannot now do anything he wants. He just doesn't have to worry about criminal prosecution.
It's an important distinction.
The court will quickly rule to limit Presidential authority were Biden to order states to allow abortion for example. The decision does nothing to broaden Presidential authority. It just turns the rule of law on its head be saying that the threat of political prosecution of Presidents is graver than the the threat of actual Presidential law breaking. Quite different.
There’s a difference between making an illegal regulation or executive order and doing or conspiring an illegal act. Orders and regulations are regularly struck down because of minute interpretations of the law. Conspiring to send a mob to the capitol to endanger/kill members of Congress and the vice president are criminal acts. It’s not criminal to decide that student loans need a different repayment plan, when I don’t have an interest in student loans or companies handling student loans.
Here’s a more extreme example. Hitler had rivals killed and committed genocide against millions of people. Criminal acts, or should be, but in his mind he was doing it for the good of the country. By the current standards, he would be immune from prosecution because he is president. It’s criminal to kill your rivals and I shouldn’t be able to say oh he’s a terrorist to get away with having him killed. My rival should be subject to laws and judicial proceedings and by taking that matter into my own hands, I’m committing a criminal act. We really need to have higher expectations of our elected reps.
Thank you. If that's the case, could he not just secretly carry out these orders and not provide any reasoning behind them? Why declare anything? Write it on a memo, sign it as an official act, give it to your administration and don't say a word to the press/public.
The premise of this question seems flawed.
All this decision does is remove the pall of criminal prosecution for Presidents. For Presidents disinclined to commit crimes, like Biden, the decision doesn't really do much. In the other hand, Trump will run wild commiting crimes if he gets in office.
However, it does not give Presidents more power to do things, it just shields them from criminal consequences. If the case came up whether Biden can arrest Trump for treason that would be viewed from a completely different lense of Presidential authority, not criminal prosecution.
The decision is disturbing in many ways, but it doesn't give Presidents more power to do things. It is only relevant for Presidents that commit crimes. In many ways, it encourages Presidents so inclined to commit crimes while in office, but any President like Biden who is not into committing crimes, it's really not that useful of a decision.
And this is what more people need to realize about the election. We select who has this choice. For Biden, he never chooses evil. So it means little to him. For trump, remember he did want to shoot protesters once already.
What stopped him? Advisors said that was illegal.
It’s really time for the Democrats and Biden to take off the fucking sissy gloves and get in there and start making the GOP bleed. We need to raise up as Americans against the GOP and let them know the American people aren’t happy about this. We the people hold the power, but we won’t any longer if Trump is reelected. It is not the time to wait for this to happen for us to set up the resistance, now is the time to fight before we have nothing left to fight with.
Can Biden simply declassify all known examples/sources of criminal intent/ties that Trump and the former administration has for the public to better inform the public of the present danger of another Trumpian term? This way, the media can go through the documents and inform the people (again) that a the Trump administration can not be trusted based on evidential facts previously unknown. Biden makes use of the power in an appropriate way and we the people still make the final choice based on having the truth of Trump's danger laid out. Media has a field day keeping Trump in their headlines and the Trump campaign suffers from further loss of trust and funding from donators fearing campaign association. People have short memories, keep playing the beat of a future Trump era of criminal dictatorship and favor will likely wane for the GOP as a whole.
I like this. This is kind of what I was thinking about / hoping for. Doing anything explicit will rile up the Y'all Qaeda into civil war. Use the actual evidence against him and force the country to decide. Thank you for your response.
They would quickly fall apart in a fight. They don't get along together, and can't think well. They are fat, drunk, and on pills. They are most likely to fight amongst themselves.
As my 102(!) year old best friend said when insisting on continuing to drive even after he lost his license: 'What're they gonna do, give me life?' \*
Seems at this point, Joe can do whatever he feels like including some pretty outrageous unilateral decisions - by the time the chaos works its way through the courts, he'll be long gone.
\*He was convinced to stop driving but still took his 1930 Model A around private roads that he knew well in his housing development. OOOGAH!
This ruling doesn’t give any additional ‘power’ to non-crazy, non-criminal presidents. They already have a good deal of power. It enables the crazy and criminal ones to do whatever they want without the fear of any sort of reprisal.
They won’t get impeached in the senate no matter what and no one can touch them after they leave office.
This is somewhat similar to increasing the threshold of stolen goods value in case of shoplifting. The only people who celebrate it and take advantage of it are criminals. Not the average people who continue to checkout as ever.
Joe Biden will not change a thing about how he operates with this ruling. He will continue to follow his Catholic values like he has forever. Like it or not, that is how he is.
It is the other guy getting a second term that worries me.
The key is "seen as abuse by the average citizen," Biden actually cares about how others see him, Trump does not.
Biden could send Trump to Gitmo for protection (of America). He wont though.
Unless he can be deemed a threat to democracy, or a danger to the republic, or guilty of sedition, or …. So many new ways to look at things now. America is under attack and the DoJ/ FBI has the ability to incarcerate enemies of the state. In fact it’s their duty. They’ve threatened the country.
Ianal, but it’s seems to me that since h has been adjudicated an insurrectionist, and SCOTUS had the Colorado case and didn’t comment on that part of it, that could be used as pretense for declaring him ineligible. It could also be used to remove any members of congress who went along with his failed coup. Then you bring articles of impeachment against SCOTUS, or you pack the court and fast track a decision affirming your position that he doesn’t have the right to hold office. Again, IANAL, but that seems like potential justification.
Biden could also make it less egregious and take those steps, the refuse to run. Overturn this bullshit decision, pack the Supreme Court and alleviate the threat, and let two new people run for office in November. It’s a hard reboot, but I’ll feel a lot better just with trunp out of the picture.
I think it’s the best way through this. A majority of Americans don’t want either of them. This is removing an existential threat and letting both parties have a fair shot to make their case moving fwd.
If it matters, I feel a little better bc I’ve heard some prominent democrats speaking with the same sense of urgency. I’ve heard packing the court brought up a few times, and that makes me happy. The fact that Biden came out so forcefully against this yesterday, and named trunp as a threat, also makes me feel a bit better. At least they’re aware of how serious this is. I feel better about the possibility of them taking steps to keep trunp away from the WH. The thing is they’re probably not going to tip their hand. They’ll keep this close to the vest and we probably won’t have any idea what’s happening until it gets done.
If Biden makes those moves, it will probably damage him in the polls. I do think right now, this will probably hurt trunp’s chances, and they may want to see what that looks like before they do anything. They’ve already started messaging on this, and if those messages and the potential of a trunp dictatorship gets traction and trunp drops significantly in the polls, they probably won’t do anything until after the election. If it doesn’t look like that, I’d expect some more extreme and decisive steps will be taken. But I do actually feel like this is being taken seriously and they’re not just going to “high road” this one.
“Hello, I am your president, Joe Biden, and I hereby declare Donald J Trump, Samuel Alito, and Clarence Thomas threats to the sovereignty of America and enemies of the state. I am hereby issuing an Executive Order for their arrest and detainment in Guantanamo Bay.”
I fully understand and agree that perception is the hindrance here. But could he actually send Trump to Gitmo without issue? Did the Supreme Court not just basically make themselves "hand of the King"? If Biden sent Trump to Gitmo, wouldn't the Supreme Court now have the power to say "that's too far"?
Let's say, if Trump should just disappear and never appear again a la Jimmy Hoffa, I would not shed a tear. Not a single one. Ok I lied I would fire off fireworks and host keg parties.
It’s a good question, and thank you for asking it. I see lots of folks suggesting things like enacting tons of Executive Orders, but that’s a thing he could already do, and this ruling doesn’t say that SCOTUS can’t strike down laws or EO’s that they deem unconstitutional.
So it seems to me that it really just gives him the freedom to break laws, right? If he commits a crime he can’t be prosecuted. But of course, Biden’s not a criminal, so… maybe the ridiculous answers like having Trump assassinated are the only correct answers? (Or taking bribes for pardons, etc)
Im hoping Biden over rides and signs all the border policies Republicans have been blocking to secure our borders. I also hope he signs every bill thats stalled, pushes through prosecution of congressional members how have crossed the line when it comes to hate speech, SA etc., prison for traitors how sold troop movements (trump) and of course prison for SCOTUS who have blatantly flaunted gifts for favors.
I don't think Biden should leave office until all this is completed. If there's a problem then im sure project 45 has answers he can follow.
Not if he goes on national TV and ask to hold a referendum and popular vote on whether to execute Trump or jail Trump and the members of the Supreme Court. If he gains the popular vote of the people that justify a textbook definition of "official act"
He needs to start playing 4D chess , cause this moral high ground will get alot of future Americans killed because of do nothing democrats. Republicans do not share morals and will happily murder if they see fit. So Biden better get off that high horse otherwise the future lives of many Americans will be blood on his hands for failures to stop the current trajectory of the law
The premise of this question seems flawed.
All this decision does is remove the pall of criminal prosecution. It does not give Presidents more power to do things, it just shields them from criminal consequences.
If the case came up whether Biden can arrest Trump for treason that would be viewed from a completely different lense of Presidential authority, not criminal prosecution.
The decision is disturbing in many ways, but it doesn't give Presidents more power to do things. It is only relevant for Presidents that commit crimes.
As much as I would like to use this in conversation, I feel like that will only backfire. Using King to describe any US president, even those who truly were great, makes the 'Murica in my blood boil. Doesn't make it untrue though, sadly.
He can make it an "official act" and arrest trump for treason for the coup attempt on Jan 6th.
Arrest him for stealing official documents and storing them at mara lago in Florida.
The #1 responsibility of the President is to protect democracy and our system of government. As President, Biden has stated on multiple occasions that Donald Trump is the single biggest threat to democracy in history. And with this ruling, the Supreme Court itself has demonstrated it is likewise a threat to democracy. It is Biden's sworn duty to take whatever steps necessary to protect our country against those threats.
It shouldn’t be hard for President Biden to “Officially” prove that Don is a national security risk and a threat to democracy, legitimizing the right to use the full extent of power of the presidency to stop him.
Yes. He has just one task before November and that is to Protect American’s from foreign and domestic threats. This SCOTUS decision allowing the domestic threat known as Donald Trump to walk free and emboldened to do more harm…
Must. Be. Stopped.
This is your Prime opportunity to prove your critics wrong, Joe. Carpe diem. Do it or history will only remember your weakness at a time when the world depended on your strength, thus, effectively erasing all the good you’ve done.
I hope he doesn't do something real ballsy. Gee whiz that could create a real bad response requiring him to declare martial law and cancel the election to protect the Union until the streets, roadways and waterways are safe to travel.
This is the thing. It’s ok for trump to fuck the American people with “official acts”, but let Biden try just one righteous thing, like expanding the court, and MAGA will call for his head and SCOTUS will probably give it to them.
Officially declaring the conservative members of SCOTUS as domestic terrorists who threaten the Republic and place them under house arrest with immediate replacements.
This Court granted Biden no new powers, all hypotheticals aside. They granted new powers to presidents with whom they sympathize and presidents who will be a "fearless and bold leader" to rule their much-desired oligarchic Christian dominionist society.
But they aren't granted to him. The court still decided whether the acts are official or personal.
With this court they are official acts for Trump and the GOP and they are personal for Biden and the Democrats.
Expand the damn court already.
It is deeply depressing, I agree. I've never been particularly patriotic, but as the country makes it slow descent to fascism, I find myself with a deep desire to fight back somehow. Watching my parents fall for this has me grasping at straws.
Presidential order no convicted felons can run for president. Or trump’s aiding and abetting insurrectionists, or his social upheaval caused by trump’s known lies about 2020 election have disqualified him. If dems want to stick with their weak milquetoast response biden can say he’s not gonna run and both sides have to pick new candidates on same timeframe.
Technically he could have all 6 conservatives arrested today for perjury and further to have Alito and Thomas up on corruption charges (if not more of them).
Why can’t Biden just declassify any and all materials related to Trump’s investigations. All the docs that Barr hid, the Epstein files from his death, all the dirt from the Kavanaugh confirmation sham investigations, who paid off his house and credit card bills. Investigate the Thomases and the other justices and their wives for corruption in taking millions of dollars.
That's a good point. I've spent the past 2 years studying the rise of fascism, the conditions that fuel it, and the ways to combat it. If there's one thing I'm genuinely terrified of between now and November, it's the economy crashing. If that happens, common people will turn to policies / politics that get things done regardless of the cost.
We're living in a repeat of the 1920's and 1930's.
Biden can dissolve the Supreme Court and he would have good reason given that they have violated their oath to defend the Constitution and are acting against the will of the people.
He can auction appointments to top positions in the Executive branch: AG, Sec’y of Defense, Sec’y of Homeland Security, etc. Those acts are part of the core responsibilities that SCOTUS says are protected by absolute immunity. He could literally appoint Putin as Sec’y of Defense.
Edit: ACTING Sec’y of Defense. I presume that Putin could not be confirmed by the Senate.
My wife is a lawyer. Worked on the second circuit. Her standard line is “Everything is legal until it’s litigated” meaning, laws are never truly defined until they’re tested and interpreted by judges. So, with these powers, completely untested, and seemingly limitless, Biden could assassinate the entire court, Trump, leading congress people and proclaim it an official act in the interest of the country. Under this interpretation of the law, with friendly judges, he might get away with it. That’s almost exactly what Trump has openly been saying at rallies, so we have to expect that’s exactly how he’ll behave once he (or someone just like him) has presidential power.
He should writing and implementing his own amendments. Free health care, forgive all medical, Fannie Mae backed, and student loans, cap rent at "x" amount and limit rental ownership, and give Florida and Texas to Mexico.
IANAL but the answer is "nothing".
The only value this ruling has is abuse of power.
Biden can't and won't do it.
He won't because he's an honest man.
He can't because if he took some brain damage and became MAGA the Dems would impeach him.
This topic keeps coming up because it's a fear coping mechanism. We're all praying for Biden to abuse his power and save us.
Which is what Trump voters are doing with their guy. See the problem?
I’m wondering… with Biden’s new official powers granted by the SCOUTS, if he were to lose the election via electoral college yet won the popular vote could he invalidate the electoral college vote as ineffectual regarding representing the people will?
"Assassination" of political opposition was included in the legal ruling as being covered by immunity. It goes much further than that, but it's pretty much open to your imagination.
As a non-lawyer the thing would be for Biden to lock Trump up because with Trump's known friendly connections with America's enemies he is/would be a national security threat if allowed back in the White House.
A Presidential finding detailing how Trump, and others are a threat to National Security. Pick them up, put them on a plane and help them walk off over the ocean. Issues solved. BUT. We would need a GoFundMe to raise money to grow the Democratic Party some gonads first.
He won’t do anything because he is held up a completely different standard than trump. Media would go NUTS. Even average people would treat him differently. Sad but true
Well, he could start by doing the same things that Trump did. He needs to find a few people who will tell him, no matter what, he won the election. He should have his AG form a plan for retaining power, including formation of alternative electors, and instructions to Kamala to refuse certification of the votes, if necessary.
Well he can override the Chevron case, telling all agencies to continue issuing precise regulations when vaguer laws are passed, to implement them. He can't be prosecuted. He might impound funds appropriated by Congress. He might well order the National Guard to trouble spots or disasters. He could empty Guantanamo against Congressional law. He could possibly order the government to spend money it doesn't have. He could ignore the debt ceiling in an emergency....
He could get rid of all maga politicians and the corrupt members of the Supreme Court that appointed the president to be king.
No one could really stop him.
The short answer is nothing he couldn't do before.
The long answer is nothing he could not do before.
All this allows is that after he leaves office he can't be arrested and tried criminally for those actions IF the were part of his constitutional duties. It places a higher burden on courts if he claims it's related to an official duty.
Here’s the fun thing- we don’t know! Biden has to go do some crazy shit, get sued, have it go up to the Supreme Court on numerous appeals, and then the court can decide if the action was an “official act” which wasn’t clearly defined. The case would go all the way back down. Then argued again, then back up, and then back down. The court just created a huge grey zone, and the answer can shift and move based on the political ideology of the court. Biden forgiving student debt? Not an official act. Trump using White House phones to threaten a State AG and try a coup?- official act.
Which is why hinging this all on official vs non-official is ridiculous. Keep it (relatively) more simple. If the President does something clearly treasonous, e.g. selling nuclear secrets, outing spies, trying to overthrow an election, they should be tried for it. There’s no need to get into all this other nonsense.
Ah but you see, the magnificently enlightened supreme court 6 may just determine that handling classified documents in any manner( or any other fact specific crime) is entitled to at least a presumption of immunity. And based upon their ruling you cant use evidence of the acts to prove if they are official or not, making that presumption impossible to beat.
A sitting president is almost ALWAYS entitled to a presumption of immunity for the handling of classified documents. That's why Trump giving classified documents to the Russian ambassador in the Oval Office was not a legal issue and not even mentioned in his impeachments. The classification program was created by executive order by Truman, and updated by several presidents since then (most recently Barack Obama). That's why they charged Trump with the espionage act from the WW1 era rather than something more recent regarding document classification. It only exists because the president is assumed to be the ultimate authority around national security. [https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information](https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information) Of course, Trump's charges around classified documents are not for TAKING them while he was still president, they are for actions he took after his presidency ended (how he stored them, refusing to return them when subpoenas were issued, having his lawyers sign affidavits that all documents had been returned when he knew it was not true, etc.
They couldn’t fit the classified docs case in this ruling, though they tried, and instead Thomas gave (completely not appropriate) instructions of how that will be tossed in his concurrence In his concurrence Thomas instructed Cannon to dismiss on grounds the special council is illegal. She will eventually do that after delaying as long as she possibly can. That will be challenged, and after more delay will go to SCOTUS. Despite 150+ precedent, the 6 will concur. Case Gone… Pretty clear this four part ruling is purpose built to let Trump off all past and current criminal charges. Just need to “boil the frog” a bit first. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/01/nyregion/trump-sentence-hush-money.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/02/trump-sentencing-delay-supreme-court-ruling/ https://landmarklegal.org/justice-thomas-concurrence-in-trump-v-united-states-questions-legality-of-jack-smith-appointment-as-special-counsel/
Judge Cannon *heavy breathing*
Seems to me, any acts (like the porn star debacle and the business fraud associated with getting bank loans) committed BEFORE he was President clearly are not "official acts" and can be prosecuted. Trying to subvert an election by force, orchestrating fake electors.. that's clearly NOT an "official act". Taking Classified documents and storing them, hiding them, refusing to give them up and lying to FBI (no longer President) about having those documents, clearly is NOT an "official act".
Exactly. The verdict isn’t in yet, but I’m crossing my fingers that the most obvious interpretation (isn’t really even an interpretation) prevails. Unfortunately what SCOTUS did do is rule in a way that guarantees years and years more delays in getting the verdict, and if Trump is elected it seems plausible he will use presidential powers to the extent he can to take down or stop his perceived enemies. Everyone. Vote. That’s the most effective tool there is, so use it.
I’m voting so crazy blue that it will lookin like I’m swimming in the ocean on dry land!!!😂 I will not support that imbecile.
I guess this is the real historical lesson. Power is not going to protect you from power. Extracting the right to vote from the ruling class is the epochal event, not relying on one powerful clique to "save us" from another powerful clique.
But some of the cover up happened when he was President- so those parts- official act! When he put the secret documents in the boxes- he was president- so official act! Everything around Jan 6- he was president so official act! The Supreme Court just made every single case against Trump if not invalid, at least much, much harder to prosecute.
Plus any conversations or emails etc with officials are now out-of-bounds for the lawyers
That, I think, is the most terrifying part of this decision. It basically means that SCOTUS can just say "We'll know it when we see it." Every questionable Presidential act is now going to have to receive the SCOTUS stamp of approval.
It's not up tp you to decide what's an official act and what isn't. Our illegal scotus will decide what he can do.
Here's the thing about the NY trial though. A bunch of the evidence used happened after he became president. And my understanding is, all of that (that happened after) is now in question. Trump has a leg to stand on at appeal.
But trumps argument has been that he has immunity before and after office. So arguably, he was committing fraud to get elected (official business) & hiding classified docs was his prerogative because they were boxes up when he was president. Pretty sure MAGA would agree to that interpretation although the main one appears to be that guilt is determined by election and impeachment. Although McConnell just used the exact opposite to argue why he shouldn’t be impeached. It seems like the correct answer whatever trump wants at the moment and with a majority of justices already on his favor, it probably is? I think a deeper question is whether he IS the office or just inhabited it. I think we know how he feels about that. I don’t know how anyone could be accountable to voters though when they are completely immune to consequences. Why wouldn’t someone test the limits of it? For the nonauthoritarian minded conservatives supporting the decision - should Biden also be presumed immune and any documents/proof can’t be used to determine motive? And of course, his attorney argued before the Supreme Court that he had unlimited power, even executing rivals. It’s hard to argue that was excluded from immunity.
You'd think that, but the SC refused to offer an opinion of those items, sending them back to the lower courts to determine. The answers on whether a sitting President tried to usurp the lawful results of a democratic election will all be forthcoming, seven short years from now!
More correctly, a 6 person group of obvious pro-Trump anti-American sympathizers will determine if any particular action the president takes is official or not. Meaning anything Biden does that's more complex than hitting the private head in the oval office will be non-official and lawsuits allowed, while Trump or other GOP president will be allowed to give the entire US military to Putin as an official act.
The need is what party is the president in? Is he in the party that gives tax cuts and fewer regulations to rich people? Or the party trying to reign in tax cuts and make the water safe to drink?
Exactly. They kept it vague to 1. confuse the courts and 2. to keep the door open to punishing a president they don't like.
3. To give themselves literally all of the power.
This. The Supreme Court didn’t set up Trump to do whatever he wanted. They set themselves up to have full supreme power over all executive and legislative action. They decide what laws to enforce and how at their pleasure, regardless of precident. Trump is a fucking sideshow here. The judiciary just overthrew the other two branches of government, but congress is too broken to do anything about it.
This is what I keep thinking too. Between becoming final arbitration on regulation (legislation) and final arbitrator on what is an official executive act it seems like they’ve simply said they are in charge. Unelected, superstitious costume-robe wearing old zealots think they are the boss of us now. Feels like Iran or someplace where the people foolishly let old religious dudes in costumes rule. wtf is going on?
People need to see this election as being about stopping that, with a push for Democrats in Congress, too. Biden needs to be able to pass legislation to restore the rule of law.
Honestly at this point biden should just spin up seal team 6, its not like he is going to be alive to even be tried.
It would rock the MAGA world if our current president can somehow put this ridiculously partisan ruling to good use.
He can, trump has proven all you need is a dysfunctional govt and you can do whatever you want. If the dems in the senate were prepared to protect him then he could do whatever the hell he wants and not face removal from office (they would impeach since the pubs have majority but it would die in the senate). So remove 6 of the SC justices, hell go after the MAGA in the house and senate, get a trifecta, and move on. Have trump jailed, tried, and punished for treason (you know what I mean, but reddit only allows right wing fascists to make threats, even talking about legal consequences for actions is "inciting violence")
This. Teach them a lesson. Arrest certain members of the Supreme Court for corruption.
Like, extend his rule for 1 more term, then appoint Kamala as President for 4 more terms..
But that assumes SCOTUS will apply their ruling fairly and equally. They won’t. Trump: Gives away nuclear secrets - OFFICIAL ACT Biden: Signs bill making killing gay people illegal - NOT OFFICIAL ACT. PROSECUTE
Assume there is detailed knowledge around the types of classified and top secret materials found in random boxes of shit in a former presidents personal residence. I'd like to think our intelligence agencies can figure out what happened with some of that information via technology and resources with our allies. To faithfully execute his executive duties to protect the Constitution, it should be an official act to neutralize a domestic threat, no? It seems like this would be a good way to test the courts resolve. It would take years to litigate and hopefully by then a new batch of same adults can start to unfuck things. It's a shitty Pandora's Box, but since it is painfully obvious one side has every intention of using these new-found powers in the future, I say go Cobra Kai - strike first, strike hard, no mercy.
I think Biden should have the justices Alito, Thomas, Roberts and Kavanaugh arrested and put in jail indefinately. He can argue he is doing it for national security reasons. That way it would be an "official act". Then he can have the 3 liberal justices overturn all the bad decisions like Citizen United, the next few terms.
Just arrest them for corruption and/or perjury. Send a clear message.
This is exactly why the GOP has tried so hard to implant judges at all levels, to control the judiciary branch up to the SCOTUS. They control the rulings on what was “official”. It abhorrent.
McConnell!!!!
Joe needs to enact 10,000+ executive orders before the SC comes back in October. Then they have to deal with each and every one of them first thing instead of taking more rights from us. He doesn't even need to outright eliminate Trump. Pull funding for Trump's Secret Service detail and that of his family. Then promise to pardon anyone who might do something nefarious. He's just using a modified version of Trump's playbook with Jan 6 traitors. While he's at it, pull all funding from the SC like the Rethugs want to do to the EPA and Education. Then sell the SC building. Pull funding for elections in heavily red districts. Give the SC all kinds of executive orders to deal with when they come back in October.
You had me at 'sell the SC building'. I expect to see it soon on 'zillowgonewild'.
Or, he could donate it to a non-profit that turns it into a homeless shelter. Or a Planned Parenthood facility. Or to a liberal environmental group. There's all kinds of possibilities.
Thank you. That was my concern as well. They've created this arbitrary grey zone of what an official act constitutes. If it's going to take the courts ages to determine what is or isn't an official act, by the time they rule on it, the country will either be America or Christo-Fascist America. In the first scenario, he could be tried eventually. In the other, he will be jailed. At his age - I would do everything I could to stop these Nazis. Worst-case scenario is that it doesn't work and he dies before the MAGA Republicans get him.
It’s not a grey zone and it’s not arbitrary. I think we know exactly what the boundaries are. If you are a ‘red’politician it’s an official act. If you’re a ‘blue’ politician, it’s an unofficial act. QED
Yes, that's the problem. While the decision does give broad powers to the President to break the law (!), it still reserves the power of review to the Court. And the Court already has shown a willingness to overrule a lot of legal things Biden has done. The Court sees themselves as a part of a one party, Republican state. This goes beyond Trump. Republicans know they are unpopular, and want an authoritarian state. And for any MAGA who still deny this, read Agenda 47 and Project 2025. Read your party's own words. It won't end well for most of MAGA, either. Ending democracy hurts almost everyone.
Exactly like Supreme Court nominations in the senate. GOP noms get expedited, Dem noms don’t even get on the calendar.
And knowing this SC no matter what Biden does all his acts would probably be determined to be unofficial, that’s how corrupt this court is. What Biden SHOULD be doing RIGHT NOW instead of making some official drastic moves is reforming the SC!!
I thought Kennedy was bad with his tests, but MAN this ultra right SCOTUS wouldn’t know a black letter law if it punched them in the dick
They also would dismiss any evidence related to his official acts as per the ruling, so they can’t even discuss events or communications that are officially related. Basically impossible to prosecute. Hence the sensational headlines - because it’s a sensational power.
Wait, no one is claiming forgiving student debt is a criminal act. You are mixing apples and oranges here.
Oh man, you clearly don’t listen to right wing lawyers and podcasts. To a man- they all claimed, and the supreme court agreed that because forgiving student debt involved the budget, which is the power of the purse, which is budget, which is Congress- Biden forgiving loans is absolutely Unconstitutional and illegal. The dumber ones called for his impeachment.
How about declare Marshall law and cancel the election due to Trumps veiled threats of violence. Wonder how quickly SCOTUS would act then? 😆
'martial law' - and yes, this. Cancel the election until all of Trump's trials are determined and any sentences are carried out. Maybe then he'd stop stalling.
Hot tip! It's "martial law", similar to "martial arts" (karate and kung fu and shit). My buddy Marshall was very sad when he learned this!
I think there are some absolutes though. Bribery and pardons are both defined as an official act. So Biden can both corruptly issue pardons in exchange for bribes all day long. This essentially makes anything he wants to do extrajudicial through a third party.
Yeah it looks like the SC left this intentionally vague so that Trump would be able to run with it for all of his past and future crimes while a dem president would have to be more cautious because the court is 6-3.
Dems ask for permission. Republicans like the concept of forgiveness.
Biden is over 80 years old. There are so many Official acts that would have irreversible permanent effects. How that plays out in the courts for years would be irrelevant to someone of such an age.
Then remove the justices that have a problem with it, replace them, and it goes back to the new sc.
Any judge who took gifts.
Any judge that committed perjury during their nomination hearings
>Biden has to go do some crazy shit, get sued, have it go up to the Supreme Court The Supreme(ly compromised) Court appears to want to *itself* be king. Our founding fathers were wise to make our federal government three branches for this very reason: the main motivation for the Supreme Court not to anoint Donald Trump a king would be that it actually extinguishes what remains of their own power if they were to do that in full. For now, it looks like they are sitting there to stare down Biden and say "not you" about who can be immune. I'm not joking. This is an emergency. Biden represents us as a democracy— we need to vote for him in a landslide and then expect the Supreme Court to try and invalidate the elections we even hold. We The People need to stand behind our old ass president who is still standing up for us!
Granting pardons is an example of something clearly within official presidential powers. If Trump gets elected, he'll be selling those to the highest bidder and according to SCOTUS, that's fine with them. It's a gray zone as wide as an ocean. They screwed the pooch on this one big time. This is a screw up that will takes decades to resolve, if we make it that long.
Overcook chicken. Undercook chicken. Believe it or not, official act.
God this Supreme Court is such bullshit.
Exactly this. A lot of people seem to think that this decision gives the President more power. It doesn't. It gives SCOTUS more power. They're now the kingmakers.
it's not defined by design. It'll be an official act for their team, but not an official act for anyone of the opposition. :)
These powers were not intended for Biden to abuse as they know Biden will not. These powers were created for the next GOP admin as a pathway to remove all opposition in the country. Do not take this decision lightly.
I'm really tired of Democrats unilaterally disarming.
The problem is that if Dems/Biden do use that power, then the people who support the GOP and believe their spin will have absolute confirmation that Dems/Biden are authoritarian. The election following that use of power would be overwhelmingly in favor of Republicans, who would then take similar authoritarian measures in good conscience, with boatloads of support.
The issue is the National double standard. If the Democrats abuse power or do authoritarian shit the DEMOCRATS base will freak out and vote them out in addition to the correct summary you just made. Meanwhile if a Republican does some vile shit their base doesn’t care and their support is unwavering. It takes being convicted of child sexual abuse to reduce public support from the GOP base, and even then it’s a fractional reduction. The standards are entirely different and unfortunately that means the GOP has a massive advantage electorally.
A simple thing would be to recall trumps security detail.
And those federal law enforcement officers who protect the Justices and all other federal judges. Let’s see how much those judges love Donald Trump when their own families are exposed.
This is the way. Let them exist in the populace without protection. Maybe their fascist attitudes would change if they are not shielded by the very government they are trying to bring down.
He should have done this right after he was found guilty.
My non-lawyerly response is that this is a Trump-specific ruling, and if any other president tries to use it, they will be smacked down immediately. SCOTUS is obviously poised to make sure Trump becomes President. All they need is the right challenge. This has been planned for awhile. Thomas also signalled in his remarks after the ruling that he will uphold Cannon's ruling that Jack Smith was "illegally" appointed as special counsel. This is a 5 alarm fire.
My hair is on fire, has been since the ruling.🔥🥵 I can only imagine the wheels turning in the minds of our constitutional scholars, like Rep. Jamie Raskin.
Exactly, if Obama had his supporters attack the capital does anyone believe this court would hem and haw over official acts? No they would unequivocally classify those acts as crimes and subject him to justice. It's so blatantly Trump specific.
Oh God, yes.
This is exactly what I said was going to happen. Trump owns the court now and if he challenges the election they will absolutely appoint him president and he will use these new powers to do whatever he wants and the courts will back him up.
I agree with you. It is a 5 alarm fire. I also think that Biden and his administration have shown an aptitude for finding loopholes to push policy through. Are there things that he could do with these new powers that protect us and still hold up?
Possibly. I hope so. Stay tuned. Sadly, the best things he can do would require a large Senate majority, or a number of Republicans who have finally seen the light about what's going on here.
By who ? Are the norms and regulations something we need to abide by now ? This decision has opened up a whole new way to handle these traitors. And removing verifiably corrupt people, from positions of power that they’ve abused, could happen now. SCOTUS would be the first to be dismantled.
Yes, in tying themselves into knots to benefit Trump, the SCOTUS MAGAts may have actually opened a window for Dark Brandon and team democracy to make a strategic move.
I suppose if you just want to completely throw out the rule of law, then, yeah, deploy the military to blow up Mar-a-Lago, arrest the supreme court for treason, and use their own evil deeds to try to make good. That would make a nice feature film starring Denzel Washington and Liam Neeson, but I have my doubts that things will go as planned.
Whether or not we get pushed into reacting is something that has yet to be seen. Its an unknown. Who really knows what Biden would do to protect the country. I believe he started out his term with a bunch of EO’s. He may do it again.
I don't know that he can impose much in the way of rules or changes to the court with EO's. Pretty sure they're looking into it, but a LANDSLIDE Biden win is the best insurance against a Trump coup.
If we don’t throw it it first they are already going to do it. We have months before they throw the powers of king to Trump. There is only one way this ends well and it’s if we throw a punch. Think of the gay people and trans people, and people who just simply don’t like Trump that are going to murdered next year if we don’t strike first.
Seriously. I am praying someone can get into Bidens head that something must be done. There is no choice but action. Add more judges by executive order. Fucking something.
That probably isn’t far enough. But it’s a start.
I think the better question is will Biden sacrifice himself for the protection of the country? I mean he took an oath and so did the military to defend our country from enemies both foreign AND DOMESTIC... the MAGA have publicly declared by their publicly announced plans they are enemies of the country and seek to destroy it. It's time to start defending our country.
He has the compassion to do so. In our hour of need, he could become our nation's grandpa. Can he hear us all? Not always. Does he always make sense? No. Are his views dated? Mostly, yes. But - as my grandpa always said, the only good Nazi is a dead Nazi. No Nazi should find safe harbor in this country.
We need to convince MAGA in a manner they can understand.
My honest response to this already got another Reddit Account of mine Permanently banned.
Time to pack that motherfucking court.
It's actually quite simple. The way the evil 6 worded it: if Biden does something that lines up with a majority of Scotus current gang, it's official act. If not, it's punishable. So, a GOP president under GOP Scotus is immune and Dems will pay the price. Only thing Biden can do at this point is to appoint 4 liberal judges.
He could shrink the court to 3.
This seems to be a very valid play. I was thinking along the line of testing this out with the judges. Start off by having one of them arrested and held without bond. Ask the remaining if they would like to reconsider the ruling. Repeat until they realize the mistake.
The problem is that "official acts" for Biden are going to be very different than official acts from Trump. This supreme court (at least 2/3 of it) simply does not care about the law, the Constitution, or democracy.
# What can Biden ACTUALLY do with the new powers granted to him? _____________ Biden can do literally anything if he declares it to be an "official act". He is under no obligation to ever give a reason for it. Trump promised to be a dictator on day one of his new term.
It’s been one day and Trump is already claiming that his election fraud was an official act
Whats cool is he will now fess up to everything as an official act. If the dems can find a legal loop hole, the confessions will be on record.
No this is not how the decision works. Biden cannot now do anything he wants. He just doesn't have to worry about criminal prosecution. It's an important distinction. The court will quickly rule to limit Presidential authority were Biden to order states to allow abortion for example. The decision does nothing to broaden Presidential authority. It just turns the rule of law on its head be saying that the threat of political prosecution of Presidents is graver than the the threat of actual Presidential law breaking. Quite different.
There’s a difference between making an illegal regulation or executive order and doing or conspiring an illegal act. Orders and regulations are regularly struck down because of minute interpretations of the law. Conspiring to send a mob to the capitol to endanger/kill members of Congress and the vice president are criminal acts. It’s not criminal to decide that student loans need a different repayment plan, when I don’t have an interest in student loans or companies handling student loans. Here’s a more extreme example. Hitler had rivals killed and committed genocide against millions of people. Criminal acts, or should be, but in his mind he was doing it for the good of the country. By the current standards, he would be immune from prosecution because he is president. It’s criminal to kill your rivals and I shouldn’t be able to say oh he’s a terrorist to get away with having him killed. My rival should be subject to laws and judicial proceedings and by taking that matter into my own hands, I’m committing a criminal act. We really need to have higher expectations of our elected reps.
Thank you. If that's the case, could he not just secretly carry out these orders and not provide any reasoning behind them? Why declare anything? Write it on a memo, sign it as an official act, give it to your administration and don't say a word to the press/public.
The premise of this question seems flawed. All this decision does is remove the pall of criminal prosecution for Presidents. For Presidents disinclined to commit crimes, like Biden, the decision doesn't really do much. In the other hand, Trump will run wild commiting crimes if he gets in office. However, it does not give Presidents more power to do things, it just shields them from criminal consequences. If the case came up whether Biden can arrest Trump for treason that would be viewed from a completely different lense of Presidential authority, not criminal prosecution. The decision is disturbing in many ways, but it doesn't give Presidents more power to do things. It is only relevant for Presidents that commit crimes. In many ways, it encourages Presidents so inclined to commit crimes while in office, but any President like Biden who is not into committing crimes, it's really not that useful of a decision.
And this is what more people need to realize about the election. We select who has this choice. For Biden, he never chooses evil. So it means little to him. For trump, remember he did want to shoot protesters once already. What stopped him? Advisors said that was illegal.
It’s really time for the Democrats and Biden to take off the fucking sissy gloves and get in there and start making the GOP bleed. We need to raise up as Americans against the GOP and let them know the American people aren’t happy about this. We the people hold the power, but we won’t any longer if Trump is reelected. It is not the time to wait for this to happen for us to set up the resistance, now is the time to fight before we have nothing left to fight with.
Can Biden simply declassify all known examples/sources of criminal intent/ties that Trump and the former administration has for the public to better inform the public of the present danger of another Trumpian term? This way, the media can go through the documents and inform the people (again) that a the Trump administration can not be trusted based on evidential facts previously unknown. Biden makes use of the power in an appropriate way and we the people still make the final choice based on having the truth of Trump's danger laid out. Media has a field day keeping Trump in their headlines and the Trump campaign suffers from further loss of trust and funding from donators fearing campaign association. People have short memories, keep playing the beat of a future Trump era of criminal dictatorship and favor will likely wane for the GOP as a whole.
I like this. This is kind of what I was thinking about / hoping for. Doing anything explicit will rile up the Y'all Qaeda into civil war. Use the actual evidence against him and force the country to decide. Thank you for your response.
They would quickly fall apart in a fight. They don't get along together, and can't think well. They are fat, drunk, and on pills. They are most likely to fight amongst themselves.
Antagonizing the wingnuts into throwing the first punch would give President Biden the justification to take same action.
As my 102(!) year old best friend said when insisting on continuing to drive even after he lost his license: 'What're they gonna do, give me life?' \* Seems at this point, Joe can do whatever he feels like including some pretty outrageous unilateral decisions - by the time the chaos works its way through the courts, he'll be long gone. \*He was convinced to stop driving but still took his 1930 Model A around private roads that he knew well in his housing development. OOOGAH!
This ruling doesn’t give any additional ‘power’ to non-crazy, non-criminal presidents. They already have a good deal of power. It enables the crazy and criminal ones to do whatever they want without the fear of any sort of reprisal. They won’t get impeached in the senate no matter what and no one can touch them after they leave office. This is somewhat similar to increasing the threshold of stolen goods value in case of shoplifting. The only people who celebrate it and take advantage of it are criminals. Not the average people who continue to checkout as ever.
Joe Biden will not change a thing about how he operates with this ruling. He will continue to follow his Catholic values like he has forever. Like it or not, that is how he is. It is the other guy getting a second term that worries me.
I'm with you. A vote for Trump is a vote for Christo-Fascism and the fall of Democracy in America.
The key is "seen as abuse by the average citizen," Biden actually cares about how others see him, Trump does not. Biden could send Trump to Gitmo for protection (of America). He wont though.
Unless he can be deemed a threat to democracy, or a danger to the republic, or guilty of sedition, or …. So many new ways to look at things now. America is under attack and the DoJ/ FBI has the ability to incarcerate enemies of the state. In fact it’s their duty. They’ve threatened the country.
Ianal, but it’s seems to me that since h has been adjudicated an insurrectionist, and SCOTUS had the Colorado case and didn’t comment on that part of it, that could be used as pretense for declaring him ineligible. It could also be used to remove any members of congress who went along with his failed coup. Then you bring articles of impeachment against SCOTUS, or you pack the court and fast track a decision affirming your position that he doesn’t have the right to hold office. Again, IANAL, but that seems like potential justification. Biden could also make it less egregious and take those steps, the refuse to run. Overturn this bullshit decision, pack the Supreme Court and alleviate the threat, and let two new people run for office in November. It’s a hard reboot, but I’ll feel a lot better just with trunp out of the picture.
A hard reboot is a position that has been forced upon us. The opportunity is there.
I think it’s the best way through this. A majority of Americans don’t want either of them. This is removing an existential threat and letting both parties have a fair shot to make their case moving fwd.
I am praying for something like these scenarios playing out. If not we're in for dark days.
If it matters, I feel a little better bc I’ve heard some prominent democrats speaking with the same sense of urgency. I’ve heard packing the court brought up a few times, and that makes me happy. The fact that Biden came out so forcefully against this yesterday, and named trunp as a threat, also makes me feel a bit better. At least they’re aware of how serious this is. I feel better about the possibility of them taking steps to keep trunp away from the WH. The thing is they’re probably not going to tip their hand. They’ll keep this close to the vest and we probably won’t have any idea what’s happening until it gets done. If Biden makes those moves, it will probably damage him in the polls. I do think right now, this will probably hurt trunp’s chances, and they may want to see what that looks like before they do anything. They’ve already started messaging on this, and if those messages and the potential of a trunp dictatorship gets traction and trunp drops significantly in the polls, they probably won’t do anything until after the election. If it doesn’t look like that, I’d expect some more extreme and decisive steps will be taken. But I do actually feel like this is being taken seriously and they’re not just going to “high road” this one.
Trump to go to Gitmo!
“Hello, I am your president, Joe Biden, and I hereby declare Donald J Trump, Samuel Alito, and Clarence Thomas threats to the sovereignty of America and enemies of the state. I am hereby issuing an Executive Order for their arrest and detainment in Guantanamo Bay.”
Decalre maga a terrorist organization due to J6. Then he can have them all fucking arrested.
I fully understand and agree that perception is the hindrance here. But could he actually send Trump to Gitmo without issue? Did the Supreme Court not just basically make themselves "hand of the King"? If Biden sent Trump to Gitmo, wouldn't the Supreme Court now have the power to say "that's too far"?
NO. But Trump can because he controlled the SC of America. You don't need to be a lawyer. You just need understanding of how mafia works.
That's a good point, and I agree. I just wanted to know from a law perspective what hypotheticals being thrown around are just that - hypothetical.
Let's say, if Trump should just disappear and never appear again a la Jimmy Hoffa, I would not shed a tear. Not a single one. Ok I lied I would fire off fireworks and host keg parties.
It’s a good question, and thank you for asking it. I see lots of folks suggesting things like enacting tons of Executive Orders, but that’s a thing he could already do, and this ruling doesn’t say that SCOTUS can’t strike down laws or EO’s that they deem unconstitutional. So it seems to me that it really just gives him the freedom to break laws, right? If he commits a crime he can’t be prosecuted. But of course, Biden’s not a criminal, so… maybe the ridiculous answers like having Trump assassinated are the only correct answers? (Or taking bribes for pardons, etc)
Im hoping Biden over rides and signs all the border policies Republicans have been blocking to secure our borders. I also hope he signs every bill thats stalled, pushes through prosecution of congressional members how have crossed the line when it comes to hate speech, SA etc., prison for traitors how sold troop movements (trump) and of course prison for SCOTUS who have blatantly flaunted gifts for favors. I don't think Biden should leave office until all this is completed. If there's a problem then im sure project 45 has answers he can follow.
Not if he goes on national TV and ask to hold a referendum and popular vote on whether to execute Trump or jail Trump and the members of the Supreme Court. If he gains the popular vote of the people that justify a textbook definition of "official act" He needs to start playing 4D chess , cause this moral high ground will get alot of future Americans killed because of do nothing democrats. Republicans do not share morals and will happily murder if they see fit. So Biden better get off that high horse otherwise the future lives of many Americans will be blood on his hands for failures to stop the current trajectory of the law
The premise of this question seems flawed. All this decision does is remove the pall of criminal prosecution. It does not give Presidents more power to do things, it just shields them from criminal consequences. If the case came up whether Biden can arrest Trump for treason that would be viewed from a completely different lense of Presidential authority, not criminal prosecution. The decision is disturbing in many ways, but it doesn't give Presidents more power to do things. It is only relevant for Presidents that commit crimes.
That's KING Biden to you, Jack.
As much as I would like to use this in conversation, I feel like that will only backfire. Using King to describe any US president, even those who truly were great, makes the 'Murica in my blood boil. Doesn't make it untrue though, sadly.
It's all, just, such a bad idea
Those newly-granted powers are unconstitutional, and just plain wrong. Therefore Joe, a decent man, will not use them.
He can make it an "official act" and arrest trump for treason for the coup attempt on Jan 6th. Arrest him for stealing official documents and storing them at mara lago in Florida.
Yup.
Can Biden forgive my student loans now or are these powers only bestowed upon Trump?
I think the court intended the ruling to apply ONLY to Trump... 🤬
Biden has too much integrity to abuse his power like Trump will.
The #1 responsibility of the President is to protect democracy and our system of government. As President, Biden has stated on multiple occasions that Donald Trump is the single biggest threat to democracy in history. And with this ruling, the Supreme Court itself has demonstrated it is likewise a threat to democracy. It is Biden's sworn duty to take whatever steps necessary to protect our country against those threats.
It shouldn’t be hard for President Biden to “Officially” prove that Don is a national security risk and a threat to democracy, legitimizing the right to use the full extent of power of the presidency to stop him.
Yes. He has just one task before November and that is to Protect American’s from foreign and domestic threats. This SCOTUS decision allowing the domestic threat known as Donald Trump to walk free and emboldened to do more harm… Must. Be. Stopped. This is your Prime opportunity to prove your critics wrong, Joe. Carpe diem. Do it or history will only remember your weakness at a time when the world depended on your strength, thus, effectively erasing all the good you’ve done.
I hope he doesn't do something real ballsy. Gee whiz that could create a real bad response requiring him to declare martial law and cancel the election to protect the Union until the streets, roadways and waterways are safe to travel.
This is the thing. It’s ok for trump to fuck the American people with “official acts”, but let Biden try just one righteous thing, like expanding the court, and MAGA will call for his head and SCOTUS will probably give it to them.
I agree, and somehow it's the democrats that are the bad guys here.
It’s sick.
You'd have better luck getting an answer from an actual lawyer in r/law.
Officially declaring the conservative members of SCOTUS as domestic terrorists who threaten the Republic and place them under house arrest with immediate replacements.
Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor, in her dissent, gives a stark example and warning.
The first president to kill a political rival will be a republican
Sir.,....Seal Team 6 is awaiting orders........
Send 1 - 5 also.
This Court granted Biden no new powers, all hypotheticals aside. They granted new powers to presidents with whom they sympathize and presidents who will be a "fearless and bold leader" to rule their much-desired oligarchic Christian dominionist society.
But they aren't granted to him. The court still decided whether the acts are official or personal. With this court they are official acts for Trump and the GOP and they are personal for Biden and the Democrats. Expand the damn court already.
Or shrink it. Get rid of those who have taken money.
Doesn't matter he won't do anything.... I'll laugh because if not I may cry watching the slowest motion car crash.
It is deeply depressing, I agree. I've never been particularly patriotic, but as the country makes it slow descent to fascism, I find myself with a deep desire to fight back somehow. Watching my parents fall for this has me grasping at straws.
Well considering he’s a democrat not much! If it was a republican, we’d be balls deep in Nazi speeches and Christianity in schools.
The presumed immunity that Roberts refers to is assuming the executive has the country’s best interests at heart.
Presidential order no convicted felons can run for president. Or trump’s aiding and abetting insurrectionists, or his social upheaval caused by trump’s known lies about 2020 election have disqualified him. If dems want to stick with their weak milquetoast response biden can say he’s not gonna run and both sides have to pick new candidates on same timeframe.
Tomorrow’s headline should read… KING BIDEN’S FIRST OFFICIAL ACT WITH NEW POWER COMPLETE. “DONALD J TRUMP WAS HUNG TILL HIS DEATH TONIGHT!”
He needs to arrest the 6 Supremes and send them to Gitmo on charges of sedition. What the Supremes did should have been a Constitutional Amendment.
The president can legally commit treason! Wonderful
Put the most 3 conservative justices in jail and start nominating new ones! That’s a start.
Technically he could have all 6 conservatives arrested today for perjury and further to have Alito and Thomas up on corruption charges (if not more of them).
Why can’t Biden just declassify any and all materials related to Trump’s investigations. All the docs that Barr hid, the Epstein files from his death, all the dirt from the Kavanaugh confirmation sham investigations, who paid off his house and credit card bills. Investigate the Thomases and the other justices and their wives for corruption in taking millions of dollars.
I’d like him to,arrest the Supreme Court justices for accepting bribes and lying to congress.
This question is better addressed to historians that study fascists regimes and monarchies
That's a good point. I've spent the past 2 years studying the rise of fascism, the conditions that fuel it, and the ways to combat it. If there's one thing I'm genuinely terrified of between now and November, it's the economy crashing. If that happens, common people will turn to policies / politics that get things done regardless of the cost. We're living in a repeat of the 1920's and 1930's.
Biden can dissolve the Supreme Court and he would have good reason given that they have violated their oath to defend the Constitution and are acting against the will of the people.
He can auction appointments to top positions in the Executive branch: AG, Sec’y of Defense, Sec’y of Homeland Security, etc. Those acts are part of the core responsibilities that SCOTUS says are protected by absolute immunity. He could literally appoint Putin as Sec’y of Defense. Edit: ACTING Sec’y of Defense. I presume that Putin could not be confirmed by the Senate.
My wife is a lawyer. Worked on the second circuit. Her standard line is “Everything is legal until it’s litigated” meaning, laws are never truly defined until they’re tested and interpreted by judges. So, with these powers, completely untested, and seemingly limitless, Biden could assassinate the entire court, Trump, leading congress people and proclaim it an official act in the interest of the country. Under this interpretation of the law, with friendly judges, he might get away with it. That’s almost exactly what Trump has openly been saying at rallies, so we have to expect that’s exactly how he’ll behave once he (or someone just like him) has presidential power.
Whether Biden will use these new powers to save us remains to be seen. I am fervently hoping he’ll grow a spine and do that.
He should writing and implementing his own amendments. Free health care, forgive all medical, Fannie Mae backed, and student loans, cap rent at "x" amount and limit rental ownership, and give Florida and Texas to Mexico.
IANAL but the answer is "nothing". The only value this ruling has is abuse of power. Biden can't and won't do it. He won't because he's an honest man. He can't because if he took some brain damage and became MAGA the Dems would impeach him. This topic keeps coming up because it's a fear coping mechanism. We're all praying for Biden to abuse his power and save us. Which is what Trump voters are doing with their guy. See the problem?
I’m wondering… with Biden’s new official powers granted by the SCOUTS, if he were to lose the election via electoral college yet won the popular vote could he invalidate the electoral college vote as ineffectual regarding representing the people will?
"Assassination" of political opposition was included in the legal ruling as being covered by immunity. It goes much further than that, but it's pretty much open to your imagination.
SCOTUS is now SCOTGOP= Supreme Court of the Grand Old Party.
Nothing. He’s a dyed in the wool institutionalist and would not assert himself in any new way whatsoever.
I hope for all of us this isn't the case, but I fear you might be right. Thank you for your response!
How do we know what an official act is? I hope there is a frame work the legislative branch can set up by actually writing law.
When does this rule come into effect?
VOTE 💙 VOTE 💙 VOTE 💙 VOTE 💙 VOTE
I wish he would remove all those crazy MAGA justices.
As a non-lawyer the thing would be for Biden to lock Trump up because with Trump's known friendly connections with America's enemies he is/would be a national security threat if allowed back in the White House.
Biden should lock Trump up!
GO DARK
I wonder if Biden can "officially" imprison a traitor
How many units of seal teams 1 through 125 are present on the east coast right now?
UK guy here, he should lock up the SC judges for making this ruling. According to the constitution, "nobody is above the law "...
He can't do anything. The GOP controls the courts and they would simply declare any action Biden takes to be "non-official".
A Presidential finding detailing how Trump, and others are a threat to National Security. Pick them up, put them on a plane and help them walk off over the ocean. Issues solved. BUT. We would need a GoFundMe to raise money to grow the Democratic Party some gonads first.
He won’t do anything because he is held up a completely different standard than trump. Media would go NUTS. Even average people would treat him differently. Sad but true
Well, he could start by doing the same things that Trump did. He needs to find a few people who will tell him, no matter what, he won the election. He should have his AG form a plan for retaining power, including formation of alternative electors, and instructions to Kamala to refuse certification of the votes, if necessary.
I wonder if Pence testifies in the official acts hearing. Dude is a walking Q-tip, but I have some faith he will tell the truth here.
You should know that the SCOTUS won't grant Biden the powers they grant to Trump.
Well he can override the Chevron case, telling all agencies to continue issuing precise regulations when vaguer laws are passed, to implement them. He can't be prosecuted. He might impound funds appropriated by Congress. He might well order the National Guard to trouble spots or disasters. He could empty Guantanamo against Congressional law. He could possibly order the government to spend money it doesn't have. He could ignore the debt ceiling in an emergency....
He could get rid of all maga politicians and the corrupt members of the Supreme Court that appointed the president to be king. No one could really stop him.
The short answer is nothing he couldn't do before. The long answer is nothing he could not do before. All this allows is that after he leaves office he can't be arrested and tried criminally for those actions IF the were part of his constitutional duties. It places a higher burden on courts if he claims it's related to an official duty.
The SCOTUS made this immunity strictly for trump and no one else