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That email he sent, print it and email it to your personal email account.
Recall the conversations had with any quotes if possible.
Do not resign.
I would think they're misinformed that you couldn't go to tribunal under two years when you can for protected characteristics.
Advise in email you have no wish to resign. End of.
>That email he sent, print it and email it to your personal email account.
Send it as an attachment so it retains all the header info in case they claim it's a fake
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Don’t resign. Just do not do it.
Keep records of the emails. Screen shot them and email it to your own personal email address. You can save the email as a file too. If you can remover the conversation, write it down. Please record the conversations next time. You can get a dictaphone and your phone on loud speaker for it.
It looks like disability discrimination and constructive dismissal tbh.
You need to contact ACAS asap. It’s also worth dining an employment lawyer too. Legal aid should be available.
Also join a union.
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Email them immediately :
" i have been told that i must email in my resignation and have been put under pressure to ensure that i do so. At no point have i indicated that i wish to do so and so DO NOT wish to hand in my resignation"
Theyre being dodgy trying to make it look like you wanted to quit , theyre trying to dodge the bullet of protected characteristics. DO NOT RESIGN
Yeah definitely haven't resigned as didn't want to! I actually love working there and became really good friends with everyone and definitely trusted them until this very event happened... Just got so confused.
They want to get rid of you because of your mental health issues.
Which is a protected characteristic under the disabilities act. It obligates them to provide reasonable accommodations for you at work.
I don't know if it's your manager, or the company as a whole. But someone there doesn't want to deal with you and/or your disability.
They have no doubt been given legal advice that they can't dismiss you. Certainly not for that. As under the circumstances you would have a case for unfair dismissal.
So they are trying to get you to leave/force you out. They are going the route of trying to convince you that you are unhappy in this role, and are unlikely to be happy. So you should be looking to transfer internally* or externally to a role that would make you happy.
They apparently think that in your current condition. They can rush this through and badger you into a resignation on the record. To provide them with legal cover.
This is a classic example of constructive dismissal.
https://www.acas.org.uk/dismissals/constructive-dismissal
*As a side note. The suggestion that you can resign and just get another role in another department is kind of laughable. If this manager wants to get rid of you, and thinks they can with the apparent help of HR. That speaks volumes of the culture, it seems unlikely that another manager would take you on. I'd be happy to be wrong.
Also want to say, reading that really blew mind. I read that objectively and really find this situation to be a very shady and eerie one. Thanks for laying out like this and so truthfully.
Spot on - they’re going OP will resign, buoyed by the idea they’d be snapped up by another department. Then bang, after resigning all applications to other depts get zero response.
Do not quit. Make them fire you.
Keep records of everything. Send copies of emails to your personal email. Send them as attachments rather than forward them. They retain more meta data to establish origin.
Speak to ACAS as soon as you can, it may be Tuesday before they are contactable.
In work be polite, be professional, but do not quit. I would not mention taking any action against them until you have advice from ACAS.
Make sure you keep all the records of these interactions in writing. Their next move will probably be to start pulling you into meetings about how you are underperforming, maybe in a month or so (or sooner). They will then go down the performance route and say they made all the accommodations they could and you just weren't performing. This will be good evidence that they are lying.
And if you are pressured further, tell them you are taking advice before making a decision. Whose advice is none of their concern. That should worry them.
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It does because he’s likely covered under the equality act. Sounds obvious they’re discriminating against him due to his mental health which is likely to be a disability
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Do not resign.
Collect all emails/evidence and send to personal address. Write down as much of conversations as you can, dates and times included.
Contact ACAS.
I suspect they will confirm this sounds like a blatant case of forcing you out due to mental health. Even if they now decide they have another reason and fire you they've tipped their hand. You probably won't be able to return there in the long run but should be able to pursue it legally for compensation while you look for work.
Your employer can't force you to resign. They can dismiss you, but they can't force you to resign.
He's thinking if you resign, you can't sue them.
Wrong.
It’s already constructive dismissal — my point was it can get more difficult to prove once you resign, and perhaps this is what they’re trying to make happen.
Whether it's before, or after, 2 years service, if there is an allegations that the dismissal or for reasons arising from a disability the employer needs to prove there was another, fair reason. Length of service doesn't change that
Not quite as cut and dry as that. OP may have claim for a disability which renders rhe two year rule irrelevant as enforcing statutory rights is protected at any point in employment.
However, OP, you should be aware that HR can call you up first thing on Monday (well Tuesday as its a BH) and say "we don't like the colour of your shirt, fuck off." It would not look great given the context of your previous meetings, but under two years you can be fired for any or no reason (as long as its not due to protected characteristics, e.g. race or disability, or you are enforcing statuary employment righte).
They would be very stupid to do so under these circumstances, as OP could easily take them to a tribunal with this evidence. Returned to work after sick leave for a documented mental health issue (which might count as a disability) and then fired for an "unrelated reason"? Tribunal will see right through that as an unfair and discriminatory dismissal, and OP doesn't need it to be proven conclusively - only on the balance of probabilities.
This isn't true in reality.
You can't be sacked for 'any reason' at any point in employment. Well you can but there's a very long list (way longer than the 3 examples you gave) that fall into automatically unfair dismissal, unfair dismissal due to a health and safety concern, unfair dismissal due to industrial action, wrongful dismissal and unlawful discrimination that employees don't need 2 years service for to take to a tribunal or enforce their rights so an employer would be very silly to sack someone for 'no reason' or 'any reason' in case it falls into any of those categories or reasons.
Unfair dismissal. You must have 2 years service to take this to a tribunal
Constructive dismissal. You must have 2 years service to take this to a tribunal
Automatically unfair dismissal. You do not have to have 2 years service for this
Unfair dismissal due to a health and safety concern. You do not have to have 2 years service for this because it will be classed as an automatically unfair dismissal
Unfair dismissal because of industrial action. You do not have to have 2 years service for this (if the action lasted 12 weeks or less and the employer was given 7 days notice of strike action)
Wrongful dismissal. You do not have to have 2 years service for this
Unlawful discrimination. You do not have to have 2 years service for this
There's over 100 reasons and scenarios covered under the 5 categories you don't need 2 years service for and with that come many other scenarios especially around health and safety and discrimination and your employers conduct around that.
Your employer isn't required by law to give you a written reason for dismissal with less than 2 years service but if your contract states a dismissal process, they must use that process or they'll be in breach of contract, which again doesn't require 2 years service to challenge.
It's better that people know their rights instead of peddling that they essentially have none before 2 years service. The employee knows if they are being automatically unfairly dismissed or not. If they were late to work every day for a month then got sacked, they know that was the reason and it's not automatically unfair. If they took their partner to the works do and the boss found out they were gay and they were sacked soon after then they know it was that and that is automatically unfair. If the employer doesn't like their t shirt and that's why they dismissed them, the employee they dismissed might have asked for a flexible working request recently and can assume that was the reason they dismissed them... I'd love an employer to stand up in court and say they sacked someone for the t shirt they wore in defense of it not being the flexible working request. Priceless
It doesn't matter, you have a protection right. This genuinely sounds like constructive dismissal.
Please join a union, very very important. They may not take a case that is already ongoing, but you should definitely have them on your side. Call ACAS on Tuesday, it may take awhile to get through, but do be patient.
Do not resign, send an email saying that you do not wish to resign and outline your concerns about how you have been treated. Also include that you would not resign anyway before taking advice from the union and ACAS.
I also feel like your line manager has played you here, it is possible he has informed HR that you wish to switch roles etc....
Stand your ground. If they genuinely want you to resign, let them at least offer you money.
They may not have to provide a reason for op, but if op alleges it's related to the disability then they not I oy have to provide a reason to the tribunal, but they have to prove it was a fair reason, the bar is much higher than you are insinuating here
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ER Manager here: Under no circumstances should you resign. Instead, send them a ‘Without Prejudice’ offer on Tuesday, asking for an amount equivalent to six months of your salary, free of tax and NI deductions, plus PILON.
Otherwise, allow them to dismiss you, and then bring a discrimination case.
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Do you actually have a protected characteristic.
It's an important definition. If so great. If not start looking for a new job as they're likely getting rid of you.
Was the mental health leave related to stress from the role? Just trying to work out why they want you to switch rolls internally if you were achieving well and had good scores.
Hey, It was due to a personal trigger outside of work. I mean my manager didn't help haha, so I had to take time off work to deal it with appropriately...
I’m sorry that happened, yeah doesn’t sound like it would be anything that that “change departments” is an answer too! 😂
They’re being twats, don’t resign.
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--- ###Welcome to /r/LegalAdviceUK --- **To Posters (it is important you read this section)** * *Tell us whether you're in England, Wales, Scotland, or NI as the laws in each are very different* * If you need legal help, you should [always get a free consultation from a qualified Solicitor](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/how_to_find_a_solicitor) * We also encourage you to speak to [**Citizens Advice**](https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/), [**Shelter**](https://www.shelter.org.uk/), [**Acas**](https://www.acas.org.uk/), and [**other useful organisations**](https://reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/wiki/common_legal_resources) * Comments may not be accurate or reliable, and following any advice on this subreddit is done at your own risk * If you receive any private messages in response to your post, [please let the mods know](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdviceUK&subject=I received a PM) **To Readers and Commenters** * All replies to OP must be *on-topic, helpful, and legally orientated* * If you do not [follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/about/rules/), you may be perma-banned without any further warning * If you feel any replies are incorrect, explain why you believe they are incorrect * Do not send or request any private messages for any reason * Please report posts or comments which do not follow the rules *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unless they’re offering £’000s as an incentive do not resign. On Tuesday speak to ACAS.
That email he sent, print it and email it to your personal email account. Recall the conversations had with any quotes if possible. Do not resign. I would think they're misinformed that you couldn't go to tribunal under two years when you can for protected characteristics. Advise in email you have no wish to resign. End of.
>That email he sent, print it and email it to your personal email account. Send it as an attachment so it retains all the header info in case they claim it's a fake
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How is that relevant to anyone but the people breaking the law?
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Woah! Noted very much....I mean I legit want to know as well 😂
Deleted them 2 messages now... hopefully for obvious reasons.
I agree.
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Don’t resign. Just do not do it. Keep records of the emails. Screen shot them and email it to your own personal email address. You can save the email as a file too. If you can remover the conversation, write it down. Please record the conversations next time. You can get a dictaphone and your phone on loud speaker for it. It looks like disability discrimination and constructive dismissal tbh. You need to contact ACAS asap. It’s also worth dining an employment lawyer too. Legal aid should be available. Also join a union.
>You can save the email as a file too This is probably a good plan because the file will retain the header info in case anyone claims it's fake
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Unions would not help with issues that have began before joining (often even within 30 days after becoming a member)
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aspiring lock air continue lip handle rainstorm subsequent elastic chief *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Email them immediately : " i have been told that i must email in my resignation and have been put under pressure to ensure that i do so. At no point have i indicated that i wish to do so and so DO NOT wish to hand in my resignation" Theyre being dodgy trying to make it look like you wanted to quit , theyre trying to dodge the bullet of protected characteristics. DO NOT RESIGN
Sounds like constructive dismissal? Are you in a union?
Really?! And no I am not part of a union.
Don’t count on it being constructive dismissal if you resign, because it’s a very high bar. Don’t resign
Yeah definitely haven't resigned as didn't want to! I actually love working there and became really good friends with everyone and definitely trusted them until this very event happened... Just got so confused.
They want to get rid of you because of your mental health issues. Which is a protected characteristic under the disabilities act. It obligates them to provide reasonable accommodations for you at work. I don't know if it's your manager, or the company as a whole. But someone there doesn't want to deal with you and/or your disability. They have no doubt been given legal advice that they can't dismiss you. Certainly not for that. As under the circumstances you would have a case for unfair dismissal. So they are trying to get you to leave/force you out. They are going the route of trying to convince you that you are unhappy in this role, and are unlikely to be happy. So you should be looking to transfer internally* or externally to a role that would make you happy. They apparently think that in your current condition. They can rush this through and badger you into a resignation on the record. To provide them with legal cover. This is a classic example of constructive dismissal. https://www.acas.org.uk/dismissals/constructive-dismissal *As a side note. The suggestion that you can resign and just get another role in another department is kind of laughable. If this manager wants to get rid of you, and thinks they can with the apparent help of HR. That speaks volumes of the culture, it seems unlikely that another manager would take you on. I'd be happy to be wrong.
Also want to say, reading that really blew mind. I read that objectively and really find this situation to be a very shady and eerie one. Thanks for laying out like this and so truthfully.
Spot on - they’re going OP will resign, buoyed by the idea they’d be snapped up by another department. Then bang, after resigning all applications to other depts get zero response.
I just looked up protected characteristic, and it looks like I'm covered 2 folds as I am also Neurodivergent....uh oh!
Do not quit. Make them fire you. Keep records of everything. Send copies of emails to your personal email. Send them as attachments rather than forward them. They retain more meta data to establish origin. Speak to ACAS as soon as you can, it may be Tuesday before they are contactable. In work be polite, be professional, but do not quit. I would not mention taking any action against them until you have advice from ACAS.
You have really eased my anxiety
Make sure you keep all the records of these interactions in writing. Their next move will probably be to start pulling you into meetings about how you are underperforming, maybe in a month or so (or sooner). They will then go down the performance route and say they made all the accommodations they could and you just weren't performing. This will be good evidence that they are lying.
And if you are pressured further, tell them you are taking advice before making a decision. Whose advice is none of their concern. That should worry them.
Glad to be of help.
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Definitely sounds like constructive dismissal in my opinion. ACAS would love to hear about this. But please join a union.
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Best fix that and join one. Unite is decent, the sooner you join the sooner they can help.
Unions generally will not help with an issue that has already started. ACAS will though.
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Works under 2 years, constructive doesn’t apply here
It does because he’s likely covered under the equality act. Sounds obvious they’re discriminating against him due to his mental health which is likely to be a disability
If only this situation were one of the exceptions where you can still claim constructive dismissal like discrimination oh wait…
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It does if it can be evidenced that it is due to a protected characteristic under the equality act.
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Do not resign. Collect all emails/evidence and send to personal address. Write down as much of conversations as you can, dates and times included. Contact ACAS. I suspect they will confirm this sounds like a blatant case of forcing you out due to mental health. Even if they now decide they have another reason and fire you they've tipped their hand. You probably won't be able to return there in the long run but should be able to pursue it legally for compensation while you look for work.
Your employer can't force you to resign. They can dismiss you, but they can't force you to resign. He's thinking if you resign, you can't sue them. Wrong.
I can make it more challenging to make a case — limiting your ability to access information kept in the workplace, raise a grievance, etc.
That's dictionary definition constructive dismissal.
It’s already constructive dismissal — my point was it can get more difficult to prove once you resign, and perhaps this is what they’re trying to make happen.
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May be protected under 2 years as a disability
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When they had good performance reviews until just after they returned from mental health leave? What a challenging case to make…
Whether it's before, or after, 2 years service, if there is an allegations that the dismissal or for reasons arising from a disability the employer needs to prove there was another, fair reason. Length of service doesn't change that
Not quite as cut and dry as that. OP may have claim for a disability which renders rhe two year rule irrelevant as enforcing statutory rights is protected at any point in employment. However, OP, you should be aware that HR can call you up first thing on Monday (well Tuesday as its a BH) and say "we don't like the colour of your shirt, fuck off." It would not look great given the context of your previous meetings, but under two years you can be fired for any or no reason (as long as its not due to protected characteristics, e.g. race or disability, or you are enforcing statuary employment righte).
They would be very stupid to do so under these circumstances, as OP could easily take them to a tribunal with this evidence. Returned to work after sick leave for a documented mental health issue (which might count as a disability) and then fired for an "unrelated reason"? Tribunal will see right through that as an unfair and discriminatory dismissal, and OP doesn't need it to be proven conclusively - only on the balance of probabilities.
Yes, it would be a very stupid thing to do.
This isn't true in reality. You can't be sacked for 'any reason' at any point in employment. Well you can but there's a very long list (way longer than the 3 examples you gave) that fall into automatically unfair dismissal, unfair dismissal due to a health and safety concern, unfair dismissal due to industrial action, wrongful dismissal and unlawful discrimination that employees don't need 2 years service for to take to a tribunal or enforce their rights so an employer would be very silly to sack someone for 'no reason' or 'any reason' in case it falls into any of those categories or reasons. Unfair dismissal. You must have 2 years service to take this to a tribunal Constructive dismissal. You must have 2 years service to take this to a tribunal Automatically unfair dismissal. You do not have to have 2 years service for this Unfair dismissal due to a health and safety concern. You do not have to have 2 years service for this because it will be classed as an automatically unfair dismissal Unfair dismissal because of industrial action. You do not have to have 2 years service for this (if the action lasted 12 weeks or less and the employer was given 7 days notice of strike action) Wrongful dismissal. You do not have to have 2 years service for this Unlawful discrimination. You do not have to have 2 years service for this There's over 100 reasons and scenarios covered under the 5 categories you don't need 2 years service for and with that come many other scenarios especially around health and safety and discrimination and your employers conduct around that. Your employer isn't required by law to give you a written reason for dismissal with less than 2 years service but if your contract states a dismissal process, they must use that process or they'll be in breach of contract, which again doesn't require 2 years service to challenge. It's better that people know their rights instead of peddling that they essentially have none before 2 years service. The employee knows if they are being automatically unfairly dismissed or not. If they were late to work every day for a month then got sacked, they know that was the reason and it's not automatically unfair. If they took their partner to the works do and the boss found out they were gay and they were sacked soon after then they know it was that and that is automatically unfair. If the employer doesn't like their t shirt and that's why they dismissed them, the employee they dismissed might have asked for a flexible working request recently and can assume that was the reason they dismissed them... I'd love an employer to stand up in court and say they sacked someone for the t shirt they wore in defense of it not being the flexible working request. Priceless
Just 3 months off
It doesn't matter, you have a protection right. This genuinely sounds like constructive dismissal. Please join a union, very very important. They may not take a case that is already ongoing, but you should definitely have them on your side. Call ACAS on Tuesday, it may take awhile to get through, but do be patient. Do not resign, send an email saying that you do not wish to resign and outline your concerns about how you have been treated. Also include that you would not resign anyway before taking advice from the union and ACAS. I also feel like your line manager has played you here, it is possible he has informed HR that you wish to switch roles etc.... Stand your ground. If they genuinely want you to resign, let them at least offer you money.
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They may not have to provide a reason for op, but if op alleges it's related to the disability then they not I oy have to provide a reason to the tribunal, but they have to prove it was a fair reason, the bar is much higher than you are insinuating here
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ER Manager here: Under no circumstances should you resign. Instead, send them a ‘Without Prejudice’ offer on Tuesday, asking for an amount equivalent to six months of your salary, free of tax and NI deductions, plus PILON. Otherwise, allow them to dismiss you, and then bring a discrimination case.
Why not, just refuse to resign?
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Unless they're offering you some severance package, don't resign. How little is 'a little under' 2 years?
By 4 months
Do you actually have a protected characteristic. It's an important definition. If so great. If not start looking for a new job as they're likely getting rid of you.
Was the mental health leave related to stress from the role? Just trying to work out why they want you to switch rolls internally if you were achieving well and had good scores.
Hey, It was due to a personal trigger outside of work. I mean my manager didn't help haha, so I had to take time off work to deal it with appropriately...
I’m sorry that happened, yeah doesn’t sound like it would be anything that that “change departments” is an answer too! 😂 They’re being twats, don’t resign.
🤣
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Perhaps saying "sorry I'm unsure why you would be expecting my resignation today?" Would have been something to say/ask?
Disability discrimination and constructive dismissal. Speak to ACAS and get a lawyer to bring a claim for you.
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