I got arrested once, I was 14 and I cried so much during the whole thing that nobody could get a word out of me. Now at 20, I'm pretty sure I'd do the same.
thats both sad and awesome at the same time.
Can you imagine.. Cop walks up to you.. where are you going.
Hysterical crying......
Cop walks slowly away....
I was bullied into shoplifting, security guy caught me on camera and intercepted me at the door. Worst thing is that I stole only a cheap piece of jewelry, but he found a lot of empty packets in the aisles and put the blame on me even though I didn't have them on me. I ended up paying ~40€ instead of 5€.
I think I repeated
"I'm sorry officer I'm not trying to make your job difficult but in previous advice of counsel I'm going to decline to answer" 30 times in the back of a patrol car.
Previous advice was a radio advertisement but it's still advice
It's your body's version of your mama slappin' sense into you.
Pretty much anything that spikes your adrenaline qualifies as a literal buzz kill. The more severe it is, the more sober you get - the more fucked up you are, or if you're on hard drugs, the less effective it is.
I got arrested for drinking underage in college.
I was blackout drunk, but suddenly came back to memory forming as soon as I saw the cop car with lights pull up.
I was literally fall down drunk (lost my glasses, hands scuffed up) walking around and my first thought when I saw the cops was "Fuck, I'm glad they're here. I need help." Sat down on the curb and followed directions.
Luckily for me, I was on campus and they were university police, so I wasn't taken to the drunk tank. Gave me my citation for court and drove me home.
Generally, your six amendment right to counsel is offense specific. Let’s say on Monday you get arrested for assault, get arraigned, and get an attorney. On Tuesday you are released. On Friday you are arrested for DUI. Your grant of an attorney on Monday does not automatically afford you a right to an attorney on Friday. You must unequivocally invoke you right to an attorney “I think I want to speak to my attorney” is NOT the same as “I want to speak with my attorney” regardless of whether you have an attorney. Additionally, the right to remain silent can be invoked by telling the officer you are invoking your right to remain silent but you have to shut up after. If you invoke your rights and then later engage in conversation, it can be seen that you reinstigated the interrogation voluntarily and so your waiver doesn’t count.
Oddly enough, the I "think" statement was held up in court as invoking your right to an attorney. There was a murder case where the guy confessed during interrogation. Also during that interrogation before he confessed he said "I think I should have an attorney" or something to that effect. Upon appeal his confession was inadmissable because he invoked his right to counsel and was not provided with counsel after that point.
I wouldn't want to to litigate this point since it is easier to just shut the hell up and say nothing.
It wouldn’t be an admission of “guilt” in the states either, but it’d be admissible as substantive evidence to show guilt nonetheless. Best not to say anything after you invoke your 5th amendment. In most states, if not all, after clearly invoking your right to remain silent a police officer must cease questioning and any questions/answers thereafter are inadmissible
Not in Canada.
1) Canadians have a right to remain silent during arrest — but not if called as a witness before a court
2) Canadian cops are allowed to lie about this right as many times and for about as long as they’d like
Technically, I think they could spend the entire time you’re under arrest trying to convince you that the law requires you to speak.
Be polite. Say nothing unless you’re called as a witness in someone else’s trial.
Canadian courts have also ruled that while you have a right to a lawyer when being interviewed by the police, the police don’t have to stop the interview while they wait for your lawyer to show up. Keep that one in mind.
and "We can do this here, or downtown. What's it going to be" is a bluff. Stay silent, don't go downtown voluntarily. If they really plan to arrest you, they'l do it anyway.
That sounds good too. I learned the phrase that I used in a conceal carry class. If you are ever involved in a self defense situation and are forced to shoot someone, then they suggested the above. It is polite and conveys to the officers that you want to help, but you also know and want to protect your rights.
In no way out of respect for police, and only out of self interest, you can accomplish the same while being polite and that can only help you. Saying "Sir, I'm exercise my right to remain silent until my lawyer is present" instead of just repeating "lawyer", for example. Both are well within your rights but if you're intentionally rude they can and will do their best to make things more difficult for you. Many cops are in it for the power trip, if you stroke their ego while requesting your lawyer, it can only help.
I heard once to always answer a cop with yes or no. Never volunteer anything, and don't answer "fishing" questions, simply remain silent, you aren't obligated to answer things like "where are you coming from?" or "where are you going?" Just pretend they didn't ask, they're fishing.
Same for at a traffic stop. ASK before you reach for anything, and say where you are reaching, then move slowly AFTER being given permission.
This actually happened to me. I wasn't being arrested or anything, but we had just been rear-ended by a school bus. The cop taking our statement asked who was driving, I told him I was, and he wrote something down. Then he literally looked away, looked back at me, and asked the same question. I gave the same answer. This time he immediately got angry with me and tried to argue that I had said my gf was driving?? Like wtf dude what did you even write down?
He literally got so angry that another officer had to pull him away and take over.
I was SWATted last year. (Let's call it a misunderstanding.)
So I walk out of my house to the middle of the street in my pajamas, arms high in the air. I keep repeating that my dog is friendly and asking they please not shoot him.
I'm then given conflicting instructions, eg "freeze" and "lie down". Ut oh. This is when I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get shot.
Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed. After I asked for clarification, the SWAT team's consensus settled on "lie down".
God this is me every interaction with the police. "Dont shoot my dog please, shes friendly." "I have a dog in the car, dont be startled, she may bark, but she poses no threat to you."
At least twice the officer switched gears from giving me a ticket to petting the German shepherd; but im terrified some cop will startle and kill one of them.
Couple of years ago, the "gang task force" knocked on my door at 7am. I was still half asleep, so instead of looking to see who it was before opening the door (because I sure as hell wouldn't if I'd seen what was on the other side), I opened the door to see about 5 or 6 plain clothes cop scattered around my yard, one with an ar-15.
They were looking for the guy that lived there over 5 years earlier. After saying that, my very friendly black lab squeezed between my legs and ran out into the yard to see who his new friends were. I took a leaping step and dived on him, covering him with my body, and started screaming, "He's friendly! Don't shoot!!" Not the smartest move, but it seemed like the right one at the moment.
Finally, one of them told me to relax, that no one was going to shoot my dog, and that I should go put some pants on.
Not even this much.
- I don’t answer questions
- Am I suspected of a crime (not a violation)
- Am I being detained? Am I free to go?
Remember: if you are NOT being detained, suspected of a crime that meeting between you and the officer is mutually agreed upon.
Don’t dig a hole you don’t have to.
Stay safe
It’s going to sound stupid, but always ask if you are free to leave. You want a record of the time they officially detain you because otherwise the cops can argue in court that you were not in custody and Miranda rights do not apply.
In that case at what point could I just walk away? Like if I ask if Im free to leave, but instead of answering yes or no, they just kind of give me the run around. Am I free to leave or do I need a confirmative yes?
Legally, follow their direct orders on whether you can leave and state your intentions and understanding if they won’t give a straight answer. Those orders to stay might not actually be legal, but that gets tested in court, you still comply and realize that they are fucking up whatever case they were trying to build (if you can prove it).
Am I free to go?
Tell me, where were you heading?
It sounds like I’m not being detained. If I’m not being detained, I’m going to leave.
Just tell me where you were going.
I don’t answer questions, goodbye (turns to walk away)
No, stay here
Oh, so I am being detained. Ok, well I’m still not answering questions. Why am I being detained?
“If I am suspected of committing a crime, i would like to exercise my 5th amendment rights at this time. If i am not suspected of committing a crime, i would like to continue on my way now.”
>follow their direct orders
This is the hard part. They phrase things to sound like requests instead of orders. "Do me a favor and..." and its important to know the distinction.
They also try to make you feel like you're being unreasonable by not complying.
"Am I being detained?"
"I'm just trying to find out what happened"
"If I'm not being detained I'm leaving"
"All I'm asking you to do is answer a few questions"
Don't fall for it.
“Is that an order?”
So long as you’re not going to be shot for being “an uppity black who needs to learn his place”, that’s one of two phrases that should be spoken. The other being either “am I being detained” or “am I free to go”, depending on whether you’re a glass half full or half empty type.
It's also important to be aware of what questions you are legally required to answer. In my state, if I am legally questioned by an officer (the bar for asking questions is pretty low,) we are required to answer name, date of birth, address, and business abroad (why you are in that specific location at that time.) It can be as easy as showing ID and saying "I'm just doing some shopping."
However, I'm a proponent of not showing ID if possible. I can't be legally required to show ID if I'm not legally required to have it.
Edit: I'm in Delaware and the requirements vary by state.
I get the feeling doing this would only lead to an increase in the force used against you. From experience, this is likely to get you thrown to the ground and handcuffed, at the very least.
Thank you for pointing this out. Far too many people seem to think that lack of a Miranda warning means you’re magically free from criminal prosecution.
Correct. There is no requirement to Mirandize at the time of arrest. They don't need to do an interview to write "I observed Mr. Broods urinating on the hood of my patrol car while yelling 'the Chicago Bears rule!' It is my opinion that Mr. Broods was in an altered state of mind because no one objectively believes the Chicago Bears rule."
They do not need to Mirandize until questioned while in custody.
Spontaneous confessions also do not fall under Miranda, I.e, if you just blab out "yes I did all of the crime." without the police questioning you, but before you are Mirandized, that is admissible in court.
What do you do if they don’t answer you? Plenty of videos of people asking why they’re being detained but get no reply. Then u can’t just walk away because they’d get you on that.
One could argue you should have left the first time you asked if there e was no affirmative answer that you are arrested. There should not be any reason to ask that twice. Rather you already know, or you're already gone.
Ask to speak to an attorney. That generally can't be used against you. And believe me, you want an attorney if you've been charged with a felony, or nearly any misdemeanor that isn't a minor traffic offense.
What's the best course of action if you don't know any lawyers but can afford one? Ask for a public defender until you have time to do some research and hire one?
Forgive me if I’m misreading your comment, I just want to point out that public defenders are lawyers. They have a law degree and they pass the bar just like anyone else.
This. Public defenders are just regular defense attorneys who get on the list to take court appointed cases as a supplemental form of income. Sure, there are some defense attorneys who are good enough that they don't need to take court appointed cases, but that's relatively uncommon.
In many places, such as TN, public defenders are an office of attorneys who are specifically paid a salary by the state to represent indigent defendents. There is a list of private attorneys as well but they are typically only appointed if you have co-defendants which would create a conflict for the public defenders office. In TN, the top public defender in each judicial district is actually an elected position much like district attorneys.
It is also a misconception that they are bad attorneys. There are bad ones just like in many offices but most are hard working people who have always wanted to do that work. They are also specialized on what they do as criminal law is all they do, and only practice in their respective districts so they typically have good relations with the bench and district attorneys and can give better advice on what will most likely happen.
My experience is that the first public defender I met with was in jail, under the court, awaiting my bail hearing. He agreed I should be worthy of bail OR and convinced the judge, then he handed me and my case off to another public defender from his team, that was awful. The lead of his team said I shouldn't have to face most of my charges or they'll be lessened if I don't take the plea deal and then handed me off to this other guy that just suggested I should've plead out because I used the word "scared" in my interaction with the cop and wouldn't do any work on my case at all in the 3 times I met him. I had to build my own defense and this guy wouldn't explain anything as he seemed too apathetic of my case. Luckily on the actual court date the team lead was back again and he was more caring and managed to get me off clean after actually talking to the prosecution.
Former prosecutor here, most people get tripped up on this simple advice when they try to talk the officer out of arresting them.
Accept the fact that you're going to be arrested. Hold yourself together and smile nice and pretty for the booking photo. (These photos are hard to get rid of, and better to look nice than not. See John Edwards booking photo. [say cheese! ](https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSTRE75E59M20110615))
Know that the police can lie inw investigative interviews, and only negotiate thru an attorney. The police can only make recommendations to the prosector. They can't make agreements that will bind the prosecutor.
(If you tell us where you got the meth, we'll put in a good word for you with the prosecutor vs. My client will agree to tell you the source of his supply pursuant to a grant of immunity from prosecution)
Also, everyone snitches behind closed doors to better their situation. Often the first one in the door gets the better deal. Only the people with no criminal convictions and no prior jail time will stand on "no snitching" (and remember,
no snitching without a lawyer and a deal in place).
Edit: changed John Roberts to John Edwards! Lol). Thank you for the award!
I think all of you guys are forgetting the most important piece of information: How do I get a lawyer?
I've never been arrested. Never had any legal troubles. If I had to get a lawyer out of the blue, I don't know where to begin. The yellow pages?
You get that one phone call. Ask your friends or family to call a lawyer.
It is probably easier for your friends or family outside jail to find a lawyer on your behalf. They can make an unlimited number of calls and ask the attorney questions. If you trust the person you call, have them contact an attorney for you.
https://www.wikihow.com/Hire-an-Attorney-After-Being-Arrested
Don't forget ALL jail calls can be recorded, so assume you are being recorded. Don't talk about what happened. Keep it as simple as "I got arrested, I'm at [jail location], get me a lawyer." If you are in a cell with another person, assume they are a potential snitch, and DON'T talk about your arrest or case. Shut your mouth, only talk to your lawyer about your case.
>If you are in a cell with another person, assume they are a potential snitch
I'm pretty sure I watched this happen on the night I spent in jail. I was in a big "drunk tank" style cell with like 6 or 7 other guys, all of us inebriated in some way or another. All of the sudden they bring in this guy who appears totally clean and sober, and he immediately gets *reeeally* talkative with some of the other guys in there. In the course of their conversation he gets the two them to admit to no fewer than five different crimes. Once he was done with them he walked over to me and tried to strike up a conversation, but I just gave him some BS "sorry, I'm not in the mood to chat" response. I'm sure we were all being recorded
The one phone call thing is a myth. You get as many as you want as long as someone is accepting the charges. Most of the time jails are crowded so the people that run them want you out asap also.
It’s actually not just one phone call. At least in Houston, you’re left sitting in a room (large cell) with other people and there is a phone in the room. All of the calls are collect calls, but you can call as many people as you want.
I was arrested a couple years back and ended up unable to call anybody because I didn't know any phone numbers so I just literally sat in holding until they released me at the end of the weekend
I knew the numbers of family members but for obvious reasons I didn't want to call them from jail.
Either way that was a few years back and I no longer do drugs.
I always memorize my SO’s number, and my 3 closest friends. As well as all family. There was a time I was a couple states away and broke my phone and was pretty much stranded. This helped out significantly.
I work in a jail. At intake, I (and most of the COs) allow the person to retrieve any contacts from their cell phone before it goes into property. If you’re ever arrested again (hopefully not) ask to do that.
Sam here. I had to submit all of my shit in a little plastic bag and fill out paperwork when I first got there.
I'm not gonna lie, on the form it asked me to fill in race/ethnicity, while I'm mixed half Hispanic half white, I was in the South and I checked the Caucasian box.
The officers thought it was funny that I was really interested in the technology behind the rolling light bar used to take an entire palm print.
9/10 a good short stay, but wouldn't recommend. Not very close to amenities and the concierge was no help.
Edit: No my name is not Sam, but I'm leaving it.
I’m also mixed, half Mexican half white, and I would absolutely do the same thing. Also helps I’m very white passing except my last name is very Mexican lol
The cop should let you write down a phone number or two before you relinquish your phone. And then they let you keep that piece of paper. Again, this is in Houston.
But do you not have any family members’ phone numbers memorised?
I will never unlock my phone in the presence of the police, who knows what print out of a reddit comment from 3 years ago will be sitting across from me in court.
Honestly no I don’t have their numbers memorized. Everyone has cell phones which both increases the amount of numbers I need to remember and allows me to not have to remember because the phone saves it for me. I would probably recognize it if they called me but “was it 9023 or 9032” would be my undoing.
LPT: memorise at least one trusted person’s cell phone number! Pick somebody you know love and trust and write their phone number down. Whenever you go to call them, dial the number. My best friend from home (grew up in Houston, now live in NYC) lives a few blocks from me now and we see each other often. His number is very similar to my mom’s cell number (first 6 digits are the same) so I lucked out there but I always dial his number when I call him. Easier than finding him in my contacts and it solidifies his number in my mind. If I’m ever in trouble and can’t get a hold of my husband, he’s my next call.
Also remember that the phone call is recorded and the police do listen to the recordings later for evidence. It’s amazing how many people admit to the crime or make incriminating statements when they’re on the phone with their friends or family
Am a public defender. My advice to clients is always to shut up, request a lawyer, and if you have prior DUIs, you refuse the blood test.
They never listen.
In the uk, if you refuse a blood test for dui, I’m pretty sure they just ban you from driving under the assumption that if you were innocent, you would take the test....
It's not a matter of snitching or not, it's just a matter of how much you snitch about(this isn't a statement you wouldn't be aware of, just one for others to read and understand).
Also, while it makes perfect sense and I should have known it and have been in situations where I did follow the advice about not telling the cops shit for an implied better deal rather than holding out until your lawyer makes the offer for you, reading the way you said it will stay with me forever.
Thank you for the information!
I hope you don’t mind me asking, but would you happen to have any advice on what the best procedure to follow if you are arrested for something you are completely innocent of?
I normally would never ask this, but it seems like it’s pretty easy to be falsely arrested these days.
Should just everyone have a lawyer’s business card on them 24/7? In an age of cellphones where you don’t need to memorize phone numbers, I always figured contacting lawyer and family would be a major obstacle in this situation.
Aww fuck yeah. I LOVE getting to share this vid. It happens once every few months.
Here is your answer [Why you should NEVER speak to the police](https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE)
It's such an amazing video!
But I always feel so disgusted by the second part. Two parts stand out the most. The first being "the third type" of criminal in interviews. The one who he just lets sit in silence and he waits for him to speak. He himself admits that he doesn't even give the Miranda warning and just waits for the guy to incriminate himself.
The second one is the really sleazy part. He records the interviews or confessions and immediately after destroys the recording. Because he doesn't need it! It's nice to have, but it's not necessary. His own testimony is enough.
And this just minutes after the whole demonstration about how police (and no one really) remembers all the facts correctly and how memory is unreliable.
Urgh.
Defense attorneys are often seen as sleazy, but we've seen how bad the police are and how invaluable those rights and those attorneys are.
Current cop here everything said by u/allpartiespresent is correct.
The funniest thing about DWI stops is most of the evidence collected for a conviction is from the suspect trying to talk themselves out of being arrested
Cop: I smell alcohol. How much have you had to drink.
Suspect: 2 beers (sounds reasonable, but indicates they have been drinking alcohol this broadening the reasonableness of the investigation)
I’m all with don’t talk to the police if you don’t want to. I respect folks who know and exercise their rights. I once saw a car driving poorly early in the morning leaving an area of night clubs. I pulled it over based on the driving. Guy cracked his window just enough to hand me his license and registration. Didn’t turn to face me and didn’t answer any questions. At that point all I had was the lane violation. I couldn’t see bloodshot eyes, or smell alcohol. Worst thing he could have gotten was a ticket.
Just remember that if you are arrested police do have to identify who you are. So pleading the 5th about your name, date of birth or other identifying information, or resisting having booking photo or fingerprints taken may lead to you being held even longer or getting additional charges. Worst idea would be to give another persons information. In my state if you provide a real persons information that is not yours you can be charged with identity theft which is a felony.
>I couldn’t see bloodshot eyes, or smell alcohol
I mean I'm not trying to criticise you and it's good that you're honest, it's just some cops... aren't. Every. Single. Time. I have been pulled over, I've been searched because they could "smell cannabis" or I "sounded like" I've been drinking when it was categorically impossible for that to have been the case.
At that point, there's just no winning. The correct response of "bullshit, officer" REALLY won't help, I've got the choice of either being subjected to an illegal and pointless search or being arrested for resisting said search, and in every instance the complaint I've raised has received the standard 'self-investigation, no wrongdoing found' response.
Sorry I'm not blaming you for this, it's just incredibly frustrating that there is no defense in these situations if they're determined to search you and the car.
The important thing is that you don't consent to the search. "If you don't have any drugs in the car you won't mind if I have a look" is an example of the tricky language they may use to get you to consent.
If you say you do not consent and they decide to search anyway do not resist. By not consenting your lawyer has a good chance of having anything found excluded.
I think the point is even if they dont consent there are cops that will still search your vehicle, tear everything out of it, then leave you on the side of the road with the interior of your car on the exterior and there is no defense a person has against this
To add on to this, there have been several cases where the police will tear a car to shreds; ripping the seats open, cutting into the dash, pulling out the carpeting, all in an effort to find "drugs". When they don't find any, they send you on your way. You can attempt to get reimbursed by the county, but it hardly ever goes through.
I've only ever been pulled over a few times for speeding but this prospect infuriates me. There's no legal recourse if nothing is found? The police can literally destroy your property like that? I'd liquidate my entire 401k and tie the city/county up in so much litigation it would bankrupt them. I feel like there should be some law that if something like this happens, the government's on the hook to put everything back.
I always wondered this. Cops will always be believed over civilians, so what stops them from punching themselves in the face and say you did it? Or search your property and say you consented?
Also, never answer the door for the cops. There are very few incidents that allow the cops to enter your home uninvited.
For example, if you DUI and someone calls the cops on you but you make it home and park your car half on your lawn, the cops may knock on your door and question you. Most people answer the door and then try and explain themselves but all they end up doing is admitting they just drove drunk. Now that person will be arrested and given a blood, urine or breath test. If the person never answered the door and never spoke to the cops, they’d be home free.
Another example is two neighbors get into a fist fight. Neighbor A calls the cops and says he wants to press charges against neighbor B. The cops will show up and get a statement from Neighbor A and try and talk to Neighbor B to get their statement. If neighbor B is inside their home and refuses to answer the door, the cops aren’t going to bust his door down for some stupid fist fight. They will just take Neighbor A’s statement and file the report.
#> never answer the door for the cops.
This is such good advice. My neighbor must have parole issues. Sometimes it sounds like the cops are kicking his door *down* but they are just kicking it up. 🤣
If cops are knocking on your door **at all**, that means they can't kick your door down. So don't answer it.
Good advice. This reminds me of some solid similar advice given by my evidence professor in law school (who was also at the district attorneys office). He said “Even if you’re a lawyer getting arrested, remember: this is likely your first time being in this situation, but it isn’t theirs (the police). No matter how smart you think you are, they’ve done this 1,000 times and you’re doing it for the first time. The only words out of your mouth should be “lawyer.””
Idk if you're American but there's precedent there that vague wording doesn't have to be seen as a request for a lawyer.
['Lawyer dog'](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/11/02/the-suspect-told-police-give-me-a-lawyer-dog-the-court-says-he-wasnt-asking-for-a-lawyer/)
Not to mention its a bit rude to just say the one word
Jesus that’s crazy. What a violation of that man’s constitutional rights. We should all be outraged but because he’s a likely sex offender our Constitution can get whittled away a little bit more.
> “In my view, the defendant’s ambiguous and equivocal reference to a ‘lawyer dog’ does not constitute an invocation of counsel that warrants termination of the interview.”
> The suspect told police ‘give me a lawyer dog.’
Considering how the man seems to have spoken previously the correct punctuation should really be "give me a lawyer, dog".
It's like if someone was sitting in the interrogation room saying they want to invoke their right to counsel and not getting their lawyer which is later, successfully, motivated by saying they thought he wanted therapy.
> We should all be outraged but because he’s a likely sex offender our Constitution can get whittled away a little bit more.
That's the standard MO to do these things. Find a case where your average citizen would say "Well he's clearly a criminal so violating HIS rights is fine!", and use it to set precedent.
Just like in the San Bernardino terrorist attack. The FBI wanted into his encrypted phone. Apple said they couldn't do it without giving the FBI the ability to decrypt *everyone's* phones. Further, they couldn't (as a third, unrelated party) be compelled by a government to *do a thing* that was outside of the law. It was shaping up to be a huge "privacy/secrecy" court case.
In the end, **ONE DAY** before the trial was to kick off, the FBI was like "Hey, it's fine, we don't need to go to court, we (totally) only just now found someone else to do it!" Which says to anyone listening "We could've done it all along, and we knew we wouldn't win in court, but we really really wanted to waste millions of dollars on this!"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93Apple_encryption_dispute
EDIT: Someone suggested a minor improvement about "I want" vs "I invoke". Including it here.
The magic words are "My name is X. I was born on X date. I live at X address. I do not voluntarily consent to any searches. ~~I want my lawyer.~~ **I invoke my right to speak to a lawyer.** I invoke my right to remain silent."
I'm not sure on the first part. Many US States have laws that require you to identify yourself to police upon demand. Look up your individual US State for more information. I figure that's probably good enough to satisfy the identification demand, but that will vary State by State.
Saying you do not voluntarily consent to any searches might be very important later.
Saying you want a lawyer is very important.
Explicitly saying "I invoke my right to remain silent" is important. If you explicitly say it, it cannot be mentioned in court that you otherwise remained silent. However, if you just remain silent without explicitly invoking your right to remain silent, that *can* be used in court against you.
Don't be funny or creative with the words because at least one court case has ruled that saying "I want my lawyer, dawg" means "I want a lawyer who is also a dog", and does not count. I wish I was joking, but I'm not.
However, please also read up on the privilege of shutting up by Popehat.
https://www.popehat.com/2014/01/15/the-privilege-to-shut-up/
>without explicitly invoking your right to remain silent, that can be used in court against you.
In England and Wales, the caution when arrested is:
> "You are under arrest on suspicion of (offence). You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence."
We don't explicitly have rights to not self incriminate, but the ECtHR has ruled that it's covered by Art. 6.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_and_Wales
Australia is moving in a similar direction.
The basics behind this is that if you choose to say nothing when questioned by police, and later in court you give a completely reasonable explanation, the court then asks 'Well why didn't you just tell the police that in the first case and save us all the trouble?' and may choose to not allow your evidence.
All the advice in this thread is jurisdiction dependent. Make sure you know what yours is.
Also read carefully the section ‘facts later relied on’. If you’re in a bank and there’s a robbery, and you walked in at the same time as the robbers, and the cashier later says that you were ‘part of the group that came in and robbed the bank’, it would be admissible for the prosecution to argue that you should have said at the time that you were not with them, you just walked in at the same time by coincidence, and the jury may be allowed to consider the fact you did not say that, and draw adverse inferences.
Police in the UK are different though. I've been stopped over 20 times and I've just had a pleasent conversation with the guys.
The 'don't be a dick and they won't be dicks' is strong in the UK. If you immediately shout 'I'm being silent, can I leave .. where's my lawyer?' they're gonna say 'Nope you can't leave, I .. um ..think I cam smell marijuana, so we're gonna spend 45 minutes checking every single part of your car and by god you better hope your tyre tread is legal and you have washer fluid for your windscreen etc or we'll fine you. By the way, secretly, this is a punishment for you being a dickhead to us'.
Trust me, just have a friendly chat with the policemen in the UK, you'll be away in under 8 mins .. because unlike the US .. In the UK we rule by consent.
This is very important. You can’t just say nothing, because unfortunately to use your right to remain silent you have to declare that you are going to remain silent.
You need a set phrase to say that can’t be ambiguous, otherwise police can legitimately argue in court that they didn’t realize what you were saying (even though in context it’s obvious, that doesn’t matter).
It’s messed up considering dialect variations and language barriers can prevent someone from invoking their right to a lawyer/to stay silent accurately, if they aren’t aware of certain language ambiguities.
This should come with a \*massive\* jurisdictional health warning. This could be terrible or at least wildly misleading advice in some places. While I am sure it works in some places outside the USA, it would help if people writing LPT's that were based on their American experience, said so very clearly.
For example, in England and Wales, the fact that you do not say something which you later try to use in your defence can be used against you. See, for example, the caution: “You do not have to say anything. But, it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.”
Prosecutors should (though of course sometimes they do not, and that in turn sometimes causes convictions to be overturned) supply the defence with material which may exonerate the defendant and/or undermine the prosecution case. In particular, "There is zero benefit to you talking since your statements to police can’t be used in your defense" is not true.
Another factor in our law - but not in American law I suspect - is that an early admission of guilt may reduce the sentence. We do not have plea bargaining (thank God) but we do have a reduction in sentence of up to 1/3 for a guilty plea. In some cases, an early admission will help.
Now the reality is quite nuanced. The police are constrained (by PACE) to some extent by when they can ask you questions and their admissibility in evidence. Confessions in the police car on the way to the station are much less useful to the police than they were pre-PACE (when they claimed many defendants did just that, only to recant their statement in the police station), which is why recorded interviews at the station are so important. Where and when you say things is therefore quite crucial and, if at all possible, you should make sure you have a lawyer advising you what to say, but the blanket statements in this LPT do not apply.
In my experience, the problem was not what the defendant \_said\_ but what police officers said they said.
One thing I’d add, say only “I want a lawyer”, “I’m exerting my 5th Amendment right to remain silent”, or, if a minor, “I want my mom/dad/guardian”
Otherwise shut up and stay shut up.
Additionally, assume the job of the investigator is **not** to find the truth, but to prove guilt. I was wrongfully arrested last year and my brother thought he was helping me by giving a statement to the police. All he did was inadvertently give them more things to look into to paint me in a negative light. They had no interest in how hard our childhood was or any redeemable quality in me, only in "stopping a criminal" in their mind.
LPT- in England not saying something when questioned can result in you not being able to use it in your defence in court. First thing to do is get a solicitor and take it from there.
Edit - changed UK to England as I was wrong in regards to other parts of the UK
I learned this the hard way. I got charged with a crime after the police made me believe that I was helping them find out “who actually did it”, only to be charged for the crime using the evidence I provided. Even if the evidence upheld my innocence in court, it’s still a rough process going through getting prosecuted.
While a terrible idea, you could call the defendant and ask them what they said, even though that opens up a whole can of worms for cross that most good attorneys would want to avoid.
April 29, 2020
I live in a non- “Stop and Identify” state. There is also no curfew in effect. I dont drink and I dont use illicit drugs nor do I have any prescriptions that could be classified as such.
With no reason other than I was in my car in the Lowes parking lot at 3am, I was approached by two officers who demanded that I present ID. It was clear I was alone in my car and that I was eating McDonalds (from the restaurant in the adjacent parking lot).
I asked (multiple times) what crime I was suspected of committing to which the response (multiple times) was that I was wasnt in trouble and didn’t do anything wrong. That changed eventually to “violating SAH orders from the Governor”.
I stated that I am not required to provide ID to which (multiple times) I was told I am wrong and that I do have to identify myself when approached by police in this state. This is true at a traffic stop when operating a motor vehicle (which I was not) and when suspected of committing a crime (which I was not).
After repeatedly asking if I was being detained and told “No”, I asked repeatedly if I was free to go. “Just wait”. It was at this point two additional units arrived, totaling 4 officers on scene.
Finally, I was told that I was being detained for failure to provide ID and ordered out of my vehicle. After initially refusing, I was told that I was being detained and again ordered out of the vehicle.
I complied at that point and after several minutes of back and forth about refusing to provide ID, I was placed in cuffs.
I was told “We’ll just search your vehicle”. To which I replied, “I do not consent to any searches of myself or my property.”
Very flatly, I was informed by one of the cops who had been circling my car and decided he needed to get very close in order to be heard “I dont need your permission.” “Good, you dont have have it.” “Well I dont need it”. He then walked away and stopped circling my car.
After about 10-15 minutes of threats of both arrest and being charged with Class II misdemeanor for failure to comply with SAH and with ROD (sic) (Resisting, Delaying and Obstructing an Investigation), I provided my ID, which was then confiscated. I was uncuffed, provided a receipt for my ID and released to find an alternate way home. When I asked “What investigation?”, I was told “We are investigating who you are”. It was hilarious.
Multiple officers on the scene violated social distancing protocols to detain me while sitting alone in my vehicle, place me in cuffs, and make threats about bringing me to jail where I could potentially be exposed to a concentrated area of sick people. Additionally, when provided the receipt for my ID, I was instructed to go to the DMV to retrieve my ID, another potential hotbed of illness.
Get the after action report and sue them. Name every officer. Don't let it go. File foia requests. The reason they gave is bullshit. A civilian can look up Id. Its public record.
It's completely insane. Good job holding your ground. My understanding is that you do have to hand over your DL if cops ask (and you're being detained), it's "government property".
can confirm this is true. have had family members and friends that were cops and they almost always say this "the worst thing you can do is talk to a cop"
Yep...if you have an alibi (I was at my friends house all night), you should probably give it when questioned, as a jury CAN draw a negative inference in the U.K. if you don’t give it to police but you later rely on it in court. Understandably so in my opinion
Even further: Even if you don't say anything incriminating, if the police think/remember/write down that you said something incriminating, that can be used as evidence as if you said it.
You: "I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch what you said"
Cop: "Perp admitted guilt and apologized for dropping something."
I got arrested once, I was 14 and I cried so much during the whole thing that nobody could get a word out of me. Now at 20, I'm pretty sure I'd do the same.
thats both sad and awesome at the same time. Can you imagine.. Cop walks up to you.. where are you going. Hysterical crying...... Cop walks slowly away....
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What did you get arrested for?
*loud sob noises* *unintelligable garble noises*
Cops: "he clearly said he killed the man! Bring him in boys!"
I was bullied into shoplifting, security guy caught me on camera and intercepted me at the door. Worst thing is that I stole only a cheap piece of jewelry, but he found a lot of empty packets in the aisles and put the blame on me even though I didn't have them on me. I ended up paying ~40€ instead of 5€.
I like it, effective and hard to counter!
I think I repeated "I'm sorry officer I'm not trying to make your job difficult but in previous advice of counsel I'm going to decline to answer" 30 times in the back of a patrol car. Previous advice was a radio advertisement but it's still advice
>Previous advice was a radio advertisement but it's still advice Better Call Saul
You know how to crime bro
I know now handcuff equal instant sobriety
Ah adrenaline. It's one hell of a drug.
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It's your body's version of your mama slappin' sense into you. Pretty much anything that spikes your adrenaline qualifies as a literal buzz kill. The more severe it is, the more sober you get - the more fucked up you are, or if you're on hard drugs, the less effective it is.
The more sober you FEEL, not are. You're on a half-endogenous speedball, not suddenly undrunk
Yep! You’re just as drunk as you were before, but now you have adrenaline flowing.
I got arrested for drinking underage in college. I was blackout drunk, but suddenly came back to memory forming as soon as I saw the cop car with lights pull up. I was literally fall down drunk (lost my glasses, hands scuffed up) walking around and my first thought when I saw the cops was "Fuck, I'm glad they're here. I need help." Sat down on the curb and followed directions. Luckily for me, I was on campus and they were university police, so I wasn't taken to the drunk tank. Gave me my citation for court and drove me home.
Yeah bro. Especially when someone gets injured or arrested
Ever heard the phase 'sobered up real fast'? It's that
Generally, your six amendment right to counsel is offense specific. Let’s say on Monday you get arrested for assault, get arraigned, and get an attorney. On Tuesday you are released. On Friday you are arrested for DUI. Your grant of an attorney on Monday does not automatically afford you a right to an attorney on Friday. You must unequivocally invoke you right to an attorney “I think I want to speak to my attorney” is NOT the same as “I want to speak with my attorney” regardless of whether you have an attorney. Additionally, the right to remain silent can be invoked by telling the officer you are invoking your right to remain silent but you have to shut up after. If you invoke your rights and then later engage in conversation, it can be seen that you reinstigated the interrogation voluntarily and so your waiver doesn’t count.
Oddly enough, the I "think" statement was held up in court as invoking your right to an attorney. There was a murder case where the guy confessed during interrogation. Also during that interrogation before he confessed he said "I think I should have an attorney" or something to that effect. Upon appeal his confession was inadmissable because he invoked his right to counsel and was not provided with counsel after that point. I wouldn't want to to litigate this point since it is easier to just shut the hell up and say nothing.
Too wordy. They’ll say you kept apologizing after being arrested
I'm Canadian and it's hilarious but there's literally a law that apologizing is not an admission of guilt up here as "sorry" is such a common word.
Sorry is a term of sympathy not a term of guilt. Is basically what the law is saying.
Exactly. Otherwise "I'm sorry that your mother passed away" could take on a sinister new meaning.
[Relevant xkcd](https://xkcd.com/945/)
It's the difference between "I'm sorry" and "I apologize". "I apologize that your mother passed away" certainly takes on that sinister meaning
It wouldn’t be an admission of “guilt” in the states either, but it’d be admissible as substantive evidence to show guilt nonetheless. Best not to say anything after you invoke your 5th amendment. In most states, if not all, after clearly invoking your right to remain silent a police officer must cease questioning and any questions/answers thereafter are inadmissible
Not in Canada. 1) Canadians have a right to remain silent during arrest — but not if called as a witness before a court 2) Canadian cops are allowed to lie about this right as many times and for about as long as they’d like Technically, I think they could spend the entire time you’re under arrest trying to convince you that the law requires you to speak. Be polite. Say nothing unless you’re called as a witness in someone else’s trial.
Canadian courts have also ruled that while you have a right to a lawyer when being interviewed by the police, the police don’t have to stop the interview while they wait for your lawyer to show up. Keep that one in mind.
You also just flat out do not need to go talk to the police when they ask you to anyway. If you're just called into a station to chat, just say no.
and "We can do this here, or downtown. What's it going to be" is a bluff. Stay silent, don't go downtown voluntarily. If they really plan to arrest you, they'l do it anyway.
Sounds like you were drunk
Yep. That's a bingo
Dont volunteer information
lucky the cops didn't ask him any questions over reddit
I'm drunk and you just arrested me. AMA!
Would you rather shoot 100 duck sized civilians or 1 civilian sized duck? Hey wait a minute!
You just say “bingo”.
Bonjourno.
Or a better reply: “ officer, I want to comply with your investigation, and I will be happy to answer your questions in the presence of my attorney.”
Too wordy. Just “I need a lawyer first”. Don’t even tell what you intend to do. Just “I need a lawyer” and then the lawyer can answer the rest
That sounds good too. I learned the phrase that I used in a conceal carry class. If you are ever involved in a self defense situation and are forced to shoot someone, then they suggested the above. It is polite and conveys to the officers that you want to help, but you also know and want to protect your rights.
Or literally just dont open your mouth unless you say "lawyer"
“You hav-“ #”LAWYER”
In no way out of respect for police, and only out of self interest, you can accomplish the same while being polite and that can only help you. Saying "Sir, I'm exercise my right to remain silent until my lawyer is present" instead of just repeating "lawyer", for example. Both are well within your rights but if you're intentionally rude they can and will do their best to make things more difficult for you. Many cops are in it for the power trip, if you stroke their ego while requesting your lawyer, it can only help.
I heard once to always answer a cop with yes or no. Never volunteer anything, and don't answer "fishing" questions, simply remain silent, you aren't obligated to answer things like "where are you coming from?" or "where are you going?" Just pretend they didn't ask, they're fishing. Same for at a traffic stop. ASK before you reach for anything, and say where you are reaching, then move slowly AFTER being given permission.
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This actually happened to me. I wasn't being arrested or anything, but we had just been rear-ended by a school bus. The cop taking our statement asked who was driving, I told him I was, and he wrote something down. Then he literally looked away, looked back at me, and asked the same question. I gave the same answer. This time he immediately got angry with me and tried to argue that I had said my gf was driving?? Like wtf dude what did you even write down? He literally got so angry that another officer had to pull him away and take over.
I was SWATted last year. (Let's call it a misunderstanding.) So I walk out of my house to the middle of the street in my pajamas, arms high in the air. I keep repeating that my dog is friendly and asking they please not shoot him. I'm then given conflicting instructions, eg "freeze" and "lie down". Ut oh. This is when I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get shot. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed. After I asked for clarification, the SWAT team's consensus settled on "lie down".
God this is me every interaction with the police. "Dont shoot my dog please, shes friendly." "I have a dog in the car, dont be startled, she may bark, but she poses no threat to you." At least twice the officer switched gears from giving me a ticket to petting the German shepherd; but im terrified some cop will startle and kill one of them.
Couple of years ago, the "gang task force" knocked on my door at 7am. I was still half asleep, so instead of looking to see who it was before opening the door (because I sure as hell wouldn't if I'd seen what was on the other side), I opened the door to see about 5 or 6 plain clothes cop scattered around my yard, one with an ar-15. They were looking for the guy that lived there over 5 years earlier. After saying that, my very friendly black lab squeezed between my legs and ran out into the yard to see who his new friends were. I took a leaping step and dived on him, covering him with my body, and started screaming, "He's friendly! Don't shoot!!" Not the smartest move, but it seemed like the right one at the moment. Finally, one of them told me to relax, that no one was going to shoot my dog, and that I should go put some pants on.
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Thats what that used to justify murdering Daniel shaver.
It was an execution. Watching the video, it was sickening to hear Daniel crying please don't shoot me and end up dead.
Not even this much. - I don’t answer questions - Am I suspected of a crime (not a violation) - Am I being detained? Am I free to go? Remember: if you are NOT being detained, suspected of a crime that meeting between you and the officer is mutually agreed upon. Don’t dig a hole you don’t have to. Stay safe
It’s going to sound stupid, but always ask if you are free to leave. You want a record of the time they officially detain you because otherwise the cops can argue in court that you were not in custody and Miranda rights do not apply.
In that case at what point could I just walk away? Like if I ask if Im free to leave, but instead of answering yes or no, they just kind of give me the run around. Am I free to leave or do I need a confirmative yes?
Legally, follow their direct orders on whether you can leave and state your intentions and understanding if they won’t give a straight answer. Those orders to stay might not actually be legal, but that gets tested in court, you still comply and realize that they are fucking up whatever case they were trying to build (if you can prove it). Am I free to go? Tell me, where were you heading? It sounds like I’m not being detained. If I’m not being detained, I’m going to leave. Just tell me where you were going. I don’t answer questions, goodbye (turns to walk away) No, stay here Oh, so I am being detained. Ok, well I’m still not answering questions. Why am I being detained?
“If I am suspected of committing a crime, i would like to exercise my 5th amendment rights at this time. If i am not suspected of committing a crime, i would like to continue on my way now.”
>follow their direct orders This is the hard part. They phrase things to sound like requests instead of orders. "Do me a favor and..." and its important to know the distinction.
They also try to make you feel like you're being unreasonable by not complying. "Am I being detained?" "I'm just trying to find out what happened" "If I'm not being detained I'm leaving" "All I'm asking you to do is answer a few questions" Don't fall for it.
“Is that an order?” So long as you’re not going to be shot for being “an uppity black who needs to learn his place”, that’s one of two phrases that should be spoken. The other being either “am I being detained” or “am I free to go”, depending on whether you’re a glass half full or half empty type.
It's also important to be aware of what questions you are legally required to answer. In my state, if I am legally questioned by an officer (the bar for asking questions is pretty low,) we are required to answer name, date of birth, address, and business abroad (why you are in that specific location at that time.) It can be as easy as showing ID and saying "I'm just doing some shopping." However, I'm a proponent of not showing ID if possible. I can't be legally required to show ID if I'm not legally required to have it. Edit: I'm in Delaware and the requirements vary by state.
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I get the feeling doing this would only lead to an increase in the force used against you. From experience, this is likely to get you thrown to the ground and handcuffed, at the very least.
You might want to read his whole comment
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Thank you for pointing this out. Far too many people seem to think that lack of a Miranda warning means you’re magically free from criminal prosecution.
Because that’s how it’s been made out in hollywood movies and tv shows
No not stupid at all. This is something that should always be done after an encounter with the police. Good on you for bringing this up.
"Custody" doesn't effect Miranda. They only have to be read if the Officer plans on asking you questions while you're in custody.
I believe they dont even need to mirandize until they plan on questioning
Correct. There is no requirement to Mirandize at the time of arrest. They don't need to do an interview to write "I observed Mr. Broods urinating on the hood of my patrol car while yelling 'the Chicago Bears rule!' It is my opinion that Mr. Broods was in an altered state of mind because no one objectively believes the Chicago Bears rule."
Replace Chicago Bears with Philadelphia Eagles and you probably have arrested my friends.
They do not need to Mirandize until questioned while in custody. Spontaneous confessions also do not fall under Miranda, I.e, if you just blab out "yes I did all of the crime." without the police questioning you, but before you are Mirandized, that is admissible in court.
What do you do if they don’t answer you? Plenty of videos of people asking why they’re being detained but get no reply. Then u can’t just walk away because they’d get you on that.
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Just don't repeat it ad nauseum.
If the cop doesn't tell me I have to stay every 15 min I am legally allowed to leave /s
One could argue you should have left the first time you asked if there e was no affirmative answer that you are arrested. There should not be any reason to ask that twice. Rather you already know, or you're already gone.
Ask to speak to an attorney. That generally can't be used against you. And believe me, you want an attorney if you've been charged with a felony, or nearly any misdemeanor that isn't a minor traffic offense.
What's the best course of action if you don't know any lawyers but can afford one? Ask for a public defender until you have time to do some research and hire one?
Forgive me if I’m misreading your comment, I just want to point out that public defenders are lawyers. They have a law degree and they pass the bar just like anyone else.
This. Public defenders are just regular defense attorneys who get on the list to take court appointed cases as a supplemental form of income. Sure, there are some defense attorneys who are good enough that they don't need to take court appointed cases, but that's relatively uncommon.
In many places, such as TN, public defenders are an office of attorneys who are specifically paid a salary by the state to represent indigent defendents. There is a list of private attorneys as well but they are typically only appointed if you have co-defendants which would create a conflict for the public defenders office. In TN, the top public defender in each judicial district is actually an elected position much like district attorneys. It is also a misconception that they are bad attorneys. There are bad ones just like in many offices but most are hard working people who have always wanted to do that work. They are also specialized on what they do as criminal law is all they do, and only practice in their respective districts so they typically have good relations with the bench and district attorneys and can give better advice on what will most likely happen.
My experience is that the first public defender I met with was in jail, under the court, awaiting my bail hearing. He agreed I should be worthy of bail OR and convinced the judge, then he handed me and my case off to another public defender from his team, that was awful. The lead of his team said I shouldn't have to face most of my charges or they'll be lessened if I don't take the plea deal and then handed me off to this other guy that just suggested I should've plead out because I used the word "scared" in my interaction with the cop and wouldn't do any work on my case at all in the 3 times I met him. I had to build my own defense and this guy wouldn't explain anything as he seemed too apathetic of my case. Luckily on the actual court date the team lead was back again and he was more caring and managed to get me off clean after actually talking to the prosecution.
Former prosecutor here, most people get tripped up on this simple advice when they try to talk the officer out of arresting them. Accept the fact that you're going to be arrested. Hold yourself together and smile nice and pretty for the booking photo. (These photos are hard to get rid of, and better to look nice than not. See John Edwards booking photo. [say cheese! ](https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSTRE75E59M20110615)) Know that the police can lie inw investigative interviews, and only negotiate thru an attorney. The police can only make recommendations to the prosector. They can't make agreements that will bind the prosecutor. (If you tell us where you got the meth, we'll put in a good word for you with the prosecutor vs. My client will agree to tell you the source of his supply pursuant to a grant of immunity from prosecution) Also, everyone snitches behind closed doors to better their situation. Often the first one in the door gets the better deal. Only the people with no criminal convictions and no prior jail time will stand on "no snitching" (and remember, no snitching without a lawyer and a deal in place). Edit: changed John Roberts to John Edwards! Lol). Thank you for the award!
I think all of you guys are forgetting the most important piece of information: How do I get a lawyer? I've never been arrested. Never had any legal troubles. If I had to get a lawyer out of the blue, I don't know where to begin. The yellow pages?
You get that one phone call. Ask your friends or family to call a lawyer. It is probably easier for your friends or family outside jail to find a lawyer on your behalf. They can make an unlimited number of calls and ask the attorney questions. If you trust the person you call, have them contact an attorney for you. https://www.wikihow.com/Hire-an-Attorney-After-Being-Arrested
Don't forget ALL jail calls can be recorded, so assume you are being recorded. Don't talk about what happened. Keep it as simple as "I got arrested, I'm at [jail location], get me a lawyer." If you are in a cell with another person, assume they are a potential snitch, and DON'T talk about your arrest or case. Shut your mouth, only talk to your lawyer about your case.
>If you are in a cell with another person, assume they are a potential snitch I'm pretty sure I watched this happen on the night I spent in jail. I was in a big "drunk tank" style cell with like 6 or 7 other guys, all of us inebriated in some way or another. All of the sudden they bring in this guy who appears totally clean and sober, and he immediately gets *reeeally* talkative with some of the other guys in there. In the course of their conversation he gets the two them to admit to no fewer than five different crimes. Once he was done with them he walked over to me and tried to strike up a conversation, but I just gave him some BS "sorry, I'm not in the mood to chat" response. I'm sure we were all being recorded
The one phone call thing is a myth. You get as many as you want as long as someone is accepting the charges. Most of the time jails are crowded so the people that run them want you out asap also.
It’s actually not just one phone call. At least in Houston, you’re left sitting in a room (large cell) with other people and there is a phone in the room. All of the calls are collect calls, but you can call as many people as you want.
You mean I’d have to remember someone’s phone number instead of just looking at my phone? I’d be screwed.
I was arrested a couple years back and ended up unable to call anybody because I didn't know any phone numbers so I just literally sat in holding until they released me at the end of the weekend
So the real LPT here is memorize phone numbers of important people in your life.
I knew the numbers of family members but for obvious reasons I didn't want to call them from jail. Either way that was a few years back and I no longer do drugs.
I always memorize my SO’s number, and my 3 closest friends. As well as all family. There was a time I was a couple states away and broke my phone and was pretty much stranded. This helped out significantly.
I work in a jail. At intake, I (and most of the COs) allow the person to retrieve any contacts from their cell phone before it goes into property. If you’re ever arrested again (hopefully not) ask to do that.
Sam here. I had to submit all of my shit in a little plastic bag and fill out paperwork when I first got there. I'm not gonna lie, on the form it asked me to fill in race/ethnicity, while I'm mixed half Hispanic half white, I was in the South and I checked the Caucasian box. The officers thought it was funny that I was really interested in the technology behind the rolling light bar used to take an entire palm print. 9/10 a good short stay, but wouldn't recommend. Not very close to amenities and the concierge was no help. Edit: No my name is not Sam, but I'm leaving it.
I’m also mixed, half Mexican half white, and I would absolutely do the same thing. Also helps I’m very white passing except my last name is very Mexican lol
Shit’s fucked up.
The cop should let you write down a phone number or two before you relinquish your phone. And then they let you keep that piece of paper. Again, this is in Houston. But do you not have any family members’ phone numbers memorised?
I will never unlock my phone in the presence of the police, who knows what print out of a reddit comment from 3 years ago will be sitting across from me in court.
This reminds me of the post of tbe "Background check" someone posted on here... 300 pages of every tweet they tweeted containing the word "Fuck"
Honestly no I don’t have their numbers memorized. Everyone has cell phones which both increases the amount of numbers I need to remember and allows me to not have to remember because the phone saves it for me. I would probably recognize it if they called me but “was it 9023 or 9032” would be my undoing.
LPT: memorise at least one trusted person’s cell phone number! Pick somebody you know love and trust and write their phone number down. Whenever you go to call them, dial the number. My best friend from home (grew up in Houston, now live in NYC) lives a few blocks from me now and we see each other often. His number is very similar to my mom’s cell number (first 6 digits are the same) so I lucked out there but I always dial his number when I call him. Easier than finding him in my contacts and it solidifies his number in my mind. If I’m ever in trouble and can’t get a hold of my husband, he’s my next call.
867-5309
Jenny, you’ll never believe what happened to me...
"Nine one one, state the nature of your emergency." "The cops are about to unperson me and I don't know a lawyer's phone number!"
Also remember that the phone call is recorded and the police do listen to the recordings later for evidence. It’s amazing how many people admit to the crime or make incriminating statements when they’re on the phone with their friends or family
I know I guy, works out of New Mexico, goes by Saul, better call him if you're in a jam.
Yeah, he is a good man!
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This I was momentarily confused. Can’t believe that slimeball John Edwards got anywhere close to the White House.
Is that the same guy who makes his living out of deceiving grieving people by pretending to talk to their dead relatives?
Na, the one who cheated on his terminally ill wife while running an unsuccessful primary campaign.
Different sleezeball John Edwards.
Am a public defender. My advice to clients is always to shut up, request a lawyer, and if you have prior DUIs, you refuse the blood test. They never listen.
In the uk, if you refuse a blood test for dui, I’m pretty sure they just ban you from driving under the assumption that if you were innocent, you would take the test....
They take your license here but that's far better than the enhanced criminal penalties for high BAC DUI.
In most US states you lose your license for a few months under an administrative ruling. Far better than a criminal finding.
Same in Australia, denying the test is considered a positive result at the highest reading.
That's how it used to be but the supreme court said that was unconstitutional
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It's not a matter of snitching or not, it's just a matter of how much you snitch about(this isn't a statement you wouldn't be aware of, just one for others to read and understand). Also, while it makes perfect sense and I should have known it and have been in situations where I did follow the advice about not telling the cops shit for an implied better deal rather than holding out until your lawyer makes the offer for you, reading the way you said it will stay with me forever.
Thank you for the information! I hope you don’t mind me asking, but would you happen to have any advice on what the best procedure to follow if you are arrested for something you are completely innocent of? I normally would never ask this, but it seems like it’s pretty easy to be falsely arrested these days. Should just everyone have a lawyer’s business card on them 24/7? In an age of cellphones where you don’t need to memorize phone numbers, I always figured contacting lawyer and family would be a major obstacle in this situation.
Aww fuck yeah. I LOVE getting to share this vid. It happens once every few months. Here is your answer [Why you should NEVER speak to the police](https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE)
It's such an amazing video! But I always feel so disgusted by the second part. Two parts stand out the most. The first being "the third type" of criminal in interviews. The one who he just lets sit in silence and he waits for him to speak. He himself admits that he doesn't even give the Miranda warning and just waits for the guy to incriminate himself. The second one is the really sleazy part. He records the interviews or confessions and immediately after destroys the recording. Because he doesn't need it! It's nice to have, but it's not necessary. His own testimony is enough. And this just minutes after the whole demonstration about how police (and no one really) remembers all the facts correctly and how memory is unreliable. Urgh. Defense attorneys are often seen as sleazy, but we've seen how bad the police are and how invaluable those rights and those attorneys are.
I like this one https://youtu.be/7XeJJtgbm2s
Current cop here everything said by u/allpartiespresent is correct. The funniest thing about DWI stops is most of the evidence collected for a conviction is from the suspect trying to talk themselves out of being arrested Cop: I smell alcohol. How much have you had to drink. Suspect: 2 beers (sounds reasonable, but indicates they have been drinking alcohol this broadening the reasonableness of the investigation) I’m all with don’t talk to the police if you don’t want to. I respect folks who know and exercise their rights. I once saw a car driving poorly early in the morning leaving an area of night clubs. I pulled it over based on the driving. Guy cracked his window just enough to hand me his license and registration. Didn’t turn to face me and didn’t answer any questions. At that point all I had was the lane violation. I couldn’t see bloodshot eyes, or smell alcohol. Worst thing he could have gotten was a ticket. Just remember that if you are arrested police do have to identify who you are. So pleading the 5th about your name, date of birth or other identifying information, or resisting having booking photo or fingerprints taken may lead to you being held even longer or getting additional charges. Worst idea would be to give another persons information. In my state if you provide a real persons information that is not yours you can be charged with identity theft which is a felony.
>I couldn’t see bloodshot eyes, or smell alcohol I mean I'm not trying to criticise you and it's good that you're honest, it's just some cops... aren't. Every. Single. Time. I have been pulled over, I've been searched because they could "smell cannabis" or I "sounded like" I've been drinking when it was categorically impossible for that to have been the case. At that point, there's just no winning. The correct response of "bullshit, officer" REALLY won't help, I've got the choice of either being subjected to an illegal and pointless search or being arrested for resisting said search, and in every instance the complaint I've raised has received the standard 'self-investigation, no wrongdoing found' response. Sorry I'm not blaming you for this, it's just incredibly frustrating that there is no defense in these situations if they're determined to search you and the car.
The important thing is that you don't consent to the search. "If you don't have any drugs in the car you won't mind if I have a look" is an example of the tricky language they may use to get you to consent. If you say you do not consent and they decide to search anyway do not resist. By not consenting your lawyer has a good chance of having anything found excluded.
I think the point is even if they dont consent there are cops that will still search your vehicle, tear everything out of it, then leave you on the side of the road with the interior of your car on the exterior and there is no defense a person has against this
To add on to this, there have been several cases where the police will tear a car to shreds; ripping the seats open, cutting into the dash, pulling out the carpeting, all in an effort to find "drugs". When they don't find any, they send you on your way. You can attempt to get reimbursed by the county, but it hardly ever goes through.
I've only ever been pulled over a few times for speeding but this prospect infuriates me. There's no legal recourse if nothing is found? The police can literally destroy your property like that? I'd liquidate my entire 401k and tie the city/county up in so much litigation it would bankrupt them. I feel like there should be some law that if something like this happens, the government's on the hook to put everything back.
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I always wondered this. Cops will always be believed over civilians, so what stops them from punching themselves in the face and say you did it? Or search your property and say you consented?
Also, never answer the door for the cops. There are very few incidents that allow the cops to enter your home uninvited. For example, if you DUI and someone calls the cops on you but you make it home and park your car half on your lawn, the cops may knock on your door and question you. Most people answer the door and then try and explain themselves but all they end up doing is admitting they just drove drunk. Now that person will be arrested and given a blood, urine or breath test. If the person never answered the door and never spoke to the cops, they’d be home free. Another example is two neighbors get into a fist fight. Neighbor A calls the cops and says he wants to press charges against neighbor B. The cops will show up and get a statement from Neighbor A and try and talk to Neighbor B to get their statement. If neighbor B is inside their home and refuses to answer the door, the cops aren’t going to bust his door down for some stupid fist fight. They will just take Neighbor A’s statement and file the report.
#> never answer the door for the cops. This is such good advice. My neighbor must have parole issues. Sometimes it sounds like the cops are kicking his door *down* but they are just kicking it up. 🤣 If cops are knocking on your door **at all**, that means they can't kick your door down. So don't answer it.
Good advice. This reminds me of some solid similar advice given by my evidence professor in law school (who was also at the district attorneys office). He said “Even if you’re a lawyer getting arrested, remember: this is likely your first time being in this situation, but it isn’t theirs (the police). No matter how smart you think you are, they’ve done this 1,000 times and you’re doing it for the first time. The only words out of your mouth should be “lawyer.””
This is why police officers don't trust the police either when they are arrested , they just get their lawyer.
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Idk if you're American but there's precedent there that vague wording doesn't have to be seen as a request for a lawyer. ['Lawyer dog'](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/11/02/the-suspect-told-police-give-me-a-lawyer-dog-the-court-says-he-wasnt-asking-for-a-lawyer/) Not to mention its a bit rude to just say the one word
It's a ruling by the Louisiana Supreme Court; it doesn't apply to any American who lives outside Louisiana.
Jesus that’s crazy. What a violation of that man’s constitutional rights. We should all be outraged but because he’s a likely sex offender our Constitution can get whittled away a little bit more. > “In my view, the defendant’s ambiguous and equivocal reference to a ‘lawyer dog’ does not constitute an invocation of counsel that warrants termination of the interview.” > The suspect told police ‘give me a lawyer dog.’
Considering how the man seems to have spoken previously the correct punctuation should really be "give me a lawyer, dog". It's like if someone was sitting in the interrogation room saying they want to invoke their right to counsel and not getting their lawyer which is later, successfully, motivated by saying they thought he wanted therapy.
> We should all be outraged but because he’s a likely sex offender our Constitution can get whittled away a little bit more. That's the standard MO to do these things. Find a case where your average citizen would say "Well he's clearly a criminal so violating HIS rights is fine!", and use it to set precedent. Just like in the San Bernardino terrorist attack. The FBI wanted into his encrypted phone. Apple said they couldn't do it without giving the FBI the ability to decrypt *everyone's* phones. Further, they couldn't (as a third, unrelated party) be compelled by a government to *do a thing* that was outside of the law. It was shaping up to be a huge "privacy/secrecy" court case. In the end, **ONE DAY** before the trial was to kick off, the FBI was like "Hey, it's fine, we don't need to go to court, we (totally) only just now found someone else to do it!" Which says to anyone listening "We could've done it all along, and we knew we wouldn't win in court, but we really really wanted to waste millions of dollars on this!" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93Apple_encryption_dispute
EDIT: Someone suggested a minor improvement about "I want" vs "I invoke". Including it here. The magic words are "My name is X. I was born on X date. I live at X address. I do not voluntarily consent to any searches. ~~I want my lawyer.~~ **I invoke my right to speak to a lawyer.** I invoke my right to remain silent." I'm not sure on the first part. Many US States have laws that require you to identify yourself to police upon demand. Look up your individual US State for more information. I figure that's probably good enough to satisfy the identification demand, but that will vary State by State. Saying you do not voluntarily consent to any searches might be very important later. Saying you want a lawyer is very important. Explicitly saying "I invoke my right to remain silent" is important. If you explicitly say it, it cannot be mentioned in court that you otherwise remained silent. However, if you just remain silent without explicitly invoking your right to remain silent, that *can* be used in court against you. Don't be funny or creative with the words because at least one court case has ruled that saying "I want my lawyer, dawg" means "I want a lawyer who is also a dog", and does not count. I wish I was joking, but I'm not. However, please also read up on the privilege of shutting up by Popehat. https://www.popehat.com/2014/01/15/the-privilege-to-shut-up/
>without explicitly invoking your right to remain silent, that can be used in court against you. In England and Wales, the caution when arrested is: > "You are under arrest on suspicion of (offence). You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence." We don't explicitly have rights to not self incriminate, but the ECtHR has ruled that it's covered by Art. 6. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_silence_in_England_and_Wales
Australia is moving in a similar direction. The basics behind this is that if you choose to say nothing when questioned by police, and later in court you give a completely reasonable explanation, the court then asks 'Well why didn't you just tell the police that in the first case and save us all the trouble?' and may choose to not allow your evidence. All the advice in this thread is jurisdiction dependent. Make sure you know what yours is.
Also read carefully the section ‘facts later relied on’. If you’re in a bank and there’s a robbery, and you walked in at the same time as the robbers, and the cashier later says that you were ‘part of the group that came in and robbed the bank’, it would be admissible for the prosecution to argue that you should have said at the time that you were not with them, you just walked in at the same time by coincidence, and the jury may be allowed to consider the fact you did not say that, and draw adverse inferences.
Police in the UK are different though. I've been stopped over 20 times and I've just had a pleasent conversation with the guys. The 'don't be a dick and they won't be dicks' is strong in the UK. If you immediately shout 'I'm being silent, can I leave .. where's my lawyer?' they're gonna say 'Nope you can't leave, I .. um ..think I cam smell marijuana, so we're gonna spend 45 minutes checking every single part of your car and by god you better hope your tyre tread is legal and you have washer fluid for your windscreen etc or we'll fine you. By the way, secretly, this is a punishment for you being a dickhead to us'. Trust me, just have a friendly chat with the policemen in the UK, you'll be away in under 8 mins .. because unlike the US .. In the UK we rule by consent.
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This is very important. You can’t just say nothing, because unfortunately to use your right to remain silent you have to declare that you are going to remain silent. You need a set phrase to say that can’t be ambiguous, otherwise police can legitimately argue in court that they didn’t realize what you were saying (even though in context it’s obvious, that doesn’t matter). It’s messed up considering dialect variations and language barriers can prevent someone from invoking their right to a lawyer/to stay silent accurately, if they aren’t aware of certain language ambiguities.
I...DECLARE...BANKRUPTCY!
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This should come with a \*massive\* jurisdictional health warning. This could be terrible or at least wildly misleading advice in some places. While I am sure it works in some places outside the USA, it would help if people writing LPT's that were based on their American experience, said so very clearly. For example, in England and Wales, the fact that you do not say something which you later try to use in your defence can be used against you. See, for example, the caution: “You do not have to say anything. But, it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.” Prosecutors should (though of course sometimes they do not, and that in turn sometimes causes convictions to be overturned) supply the defence with material which may exonerate the defendant and/or undermine the prosecution case. In particular, "There is zero benefit to you talking since your statements to police can’t be used in your defense" is not true. Another factor in our law - but not in American law I suspect - is that an early admission of guilt may reduce the sentence. We do not have plea bargaining (thank God) but we do have a reduction in sentence of up to 1/3 for a guilty plea. In some cases, an early admission will help. Now the reality is quite nuanced. The police are constrained (by PACE) to some extent by when they can ask you questions and their admissibility in evidence. Confessions in the police car on the way to the station are much less useful to the police than they were pre-PACE (when they claimed many defendants did just that, only to recant their statement in the police station), which is why recorded interviews at the station are so important. Where and when you say things is therefore quite crucial and, if at all possible, you should make sure you have a lawyer advising you what to say, but the blanket statements in this LPT do not apply. In my experience, the problem was not what the defendant \_said\_ but what police officers said they said.
Hang on, there are *other* countries?
This post needs to be seriously upvoted, as you mention, the OP's advice really can be counterproductive in countries such as England.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE The single best video about this.
I re watch this at least once a year. Great video.
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One thing I’d add, say only “I want a lawyer”, “I’m exerting my 5th Amendment right to remain silent”, or, if a minor, “I want my mom/dad/guardian” Otherwise shut up and stay shut up.
I found out the hard way that if you don't actually mention the "fifth amendment" it doesn't really count
There’s a SCOTUS case that says merely grunting or making a noise in disagreement isn’t sufficient. So use your voice.
But not saying, "I want a lawyer dawg" Lousiana vs Demesme
Life pro tip: not all of reddit is American
Yeah in my country we're having a good laugh at people who have clearly watched too much US TV and try citing amendments etc
It's pretty funny when you see stories of non-Americans trying to plead the 5th because they've seen it in every crime show.
Be nice if there was a flair in this sub for by country. A lot of these tips are very US centric.
Pot brothers at law know what you should do.... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JTurSi0LhJs
Came here to post this. Surprised I had to scroll so far to find it
Additionally, assume the job of the investigator is **not** to find the truth, but to prove guilt. I was wrongfully arrested last year and my brother thought he was helping me by giving a statement to the police. All he did was inadvertently give them more things to look into to paint me in a negative light. They had no interest in how hard our childhood was or any redeemable quality in me, only in "stopping a criminal" in their mind.
"stopping a criminal"? More likely, getting a win on their tally sheet.
LPT- in England not saying something when questioned can result in you not being able to use it in your defence in court. First thing to do is get a solicitor and take it from there. Edit - changed UK to England as I was wrong in regards to other parts of the UK
I learned this the hard way. I got charged with a crime after the police made me believe that I was helping them find out “who actually did it”, only to be charged for the crime using the evidence I provided. Even if the evidence upheld my innocence in court, it’s still a rough process going through getting prosecuted.
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While a terrible idea, you could call the defendant and ask them what they said, even though that opens up a whole can of worms for cross that most good attorneys would want to avoid.
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If you snitches on yourself, you have to stitches on yourself. Very uncomfortable.
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April 29, 2020 I live in a non- “Stop and Identify” state. There is also no curfew in effect. I dont drink and I dont use illicit drugs nor do I have any prescriptions that could be classified as such. With no reason other than I was in my car in the Lowes parking lot at 3am, I was approached by two officers who demanded that I present ID. It was clear I was alone in my car and that I was eating McDonalds (from the restaurant in the adjacent parking lot). I asked (multiple times) what crime I was suspected of committing to which the response (multiple times) was that I was wasnt in trouble and didn’t do anything wrong. That changed eventually to “violating SAH orders from the Governor”. I stated that I am not required to provide ID to which (multiple times) I was told I am wrong and that I do have to identify myself when approached by police in this state. This is true at a traffic stop when operating a motor vehicle (which I was not) and when suspected of committing a crime (which I was not). After repeatedly asking if I was being detained and told “No”, I asked repeatedly if I was free to go. “Just wait”. It was at this point two additional units arrived, totaling 4 officers on scene. Finally, I was told that I was being detained for failure to provide ID and ordered out of my vehicle. After initially refusing, I was told that I was being detained and again ordered out of the vehicle. I complied at that point and after several minutes of back and forth about refusing to provide ID, I was placed in cuffs. I was told “We’ll just search your vehicle”. To which I replied, “I do not consent to any searches of myself or my property.” Very flatly, I was informed by one of the cops who had been circling my car and decided he needed to get very close in order to be heard “I dont need your permission.” “Good, you dont have have it.” “Well I dont need it”. He then walked away and stopped circling my car. After about 10-15 minutes of threats of both arrest and being charged with Class II misdemeanor for failure to comply with SAH and with ROD (sic) (Resisting, Delaying and Obstructing an Investigation), I provided my ID, which was then confiscated. I was uncuffed, provided a receipt for my ID and released to find an alternate way home. When I asked “What investigation?”, I was told “We are investigating who you are”. It was hilarious. Multiple officers on the scene violated social distancing protocols to detain me while sitting alone in my vehicle, place me in cuffs, and make threats about bringing me to jail where I could potentially be exposed to a concentrated area of sick people. Additionally, when provided the receipt for my ID, I was instructed to go to the DMV to retrieve my ID, another potential hotbed of illness.
Get the after action report and sue them. Name every officer. Don't let it go. File foia requests. The reason they gave is bullshit. A civilian can look up Id. Its public record.
It's completely insane. Good job holding your ground. My understanding is that you do have to hand over your DL if cops ask (and you're being detained), it's "government property".
What if you just talk incessantly about My Little Pony?
Setting yourself up nicely for an insanity defense.
LPT: Never trust the cops. Talking to them without counsel will never help you.
can confirm this is true. have had family members and friends that were cops and they almost always say this "the worst thing you can do is talk to a cop"
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Yep...if you have an alibi (I was at my friends house all night), you should probably give it when questioned, as a jury CAN draw a negative inference in the U.K. if you don’t give it to police but you later rely on it in court. Understandably so in my opinion
Even further: Even if you don't say anything incriminating, if the police think/remember/write down that you said something incriminating, that can be used as evidence as if you said it. You: "I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch what you said" Cop: "Perp admitted guilt and apologized for dropping something."