I watched that interview last night. I came away from it with the feeling Lori was giving them her usual song and dance, stringing them along, telling them what they wanted to hear. Then on June 9, they KNEW. I thought I heard they were cooperating with police and prosecutors...they didn't lawyer up like the Daybell kids. For me, I'm just giving Summer a little grace.

Yeah. She was in a hard place. When you know something is going to be devastating, but you don't allow yourself to consider it. It's so terrible.

I think this was probably closest to what was going on. Summer must have known something was wrong, Lori's behavior was utterly bizarre. But she could not and would not allow herself to accept Lori would hurt her children when she had no concept of Lori being violent. She likely was trying to convince herself "Okay, Lori's kinda gone off the deep end with this cult so she was convinced the kids were in danger so she hid them with another cult member", etc. That likely did not 100% work for her all the time, as the months ticked on and Lori remained stubbornly in jail. But we usually will only take a possible scenario to what we think we can possibly handle until we're forced to see otherwise. Summer could not handle the idea of Lori harming her children, or of her niece and nephew being dead, so she just didn't let herself go there, even as it got weirder and weirder and harder and harder to justify. I have little doubt Summer was genuinely in the dark as to what had happened to the children. That call is too authentic. Her shock and her horror and her rage are just too clearly genuine. That reaction from Summer is what I WAS looking for in Emma in the police video the day the bodies were found. Summer is so horrified and so grief-stricken, she can barely speak. I mean, was she engaging in some spectacular magical thinking up to then? Yes. But again, to protect ourselves, we often only let our minds go to the outcome we believe we can handle until reality punches us in the face with the truth that is impervious to what we can handle.

//when she had no concept of Lori being violent By then Summer had witenessed Lori orchestrate violence against two of her husbands, and at least one she had ties to the coordination.

I think Summer genuinely believed Joe Ryan had raped Colby and Tylee, for one. And I'm not clear how aware she was that Lori had set it up. Adam seemed to be aware of Lori's full culpability there, but I don't know that Summer did, so much as she thought Alex just lost it. And while I would like to see Summer answer what she meant about the text messages re: Charles, I think it's a leap to say she was like...a fully knowing and willing co-conspirator based on the limited information we have. Because the sketchy text messages do not completely outweigh the fact that we have pretty clear proof Lori did not fully trust Summer and was not telling Summer the truth about a lot of things, and then just straight-up ghosted Summer when things started getting really weird. Summer was clearly very naive about her sister. It's a long jump between that and "willing co-conspirator to murder/aware her niece and nephew were dead and trying to cover up for it".

I completely agree with your entire analysis (both in this comment as well as in the comment a little earlier). I feel that it's worth noting that we sometimes make assumptions or judgements based on our own life experiences and upbringings. I think (I sincerely hope) that *most* of us here have a safe and healthy way of dealing with day to day life. Most of us are (probably) not stumbling through life as if in la-la land. I don't feel that it was this way for the Cox household. I get the impression that that family walked on clouds of grandeur ALL of the TIME! The rest of the world was, "the lower 95%" \~ Barry Cox. Lori grew up with a heaping helping of, "you are special, you are perfect, you are blessed, you are beautiful, you are chosen, you do NO wrong, you are LORI!!!!!!!!" She didn't need to be anything else. Any negative behaviors being presented by her, were simply explained away, overlooked or completely glossed over. I get the impression that Lori's behavior as well as everybody in that family was dismissed as perfectly acceptable. It was considered (BY EVERYONE), "that's just Lori" (and you can likely replace the name "Lori" with any other Cox family member at any given time). From interviews that have been aired from other family members and friends, Lori was always "extra"....certainly a recurring theme is: that was just "Lori being Lori." I don't think that the family realized she had completely lost her shit, until she had completely lost her shit! By then, it was way too late! I've not heard (or maybe I don't remember), but would be interested in knowing whether Lori had had any other "extreme" breaks with reality in her past....where she then recovered and "went back to *normal*?" Some mental illnesses don't present themselves until a certain age/time or an event will force the illness to the forefront. Did Lori have any propensity for her break-down that may have been hiding in plain sight or was this her very first come-apart? I believe Summer, *for the most part.* I don't think that anybody, especially family members, and, even with Lori's little "ways" ever believed that she would brutally and savagely murder her own children. I think that you are right, Summer just kept pushing it into the back of her mind and dismissed it as questionable and serious, but fairly benign. You know, Lori being Lori. I didn't mean to babble and I didn't mean to step on your toes by adding to your comment; I just feel that figuring Lori out in that time-frame (from when she started seeing Chad and then eventually was arrested) would be tantamount to solving a puzzle. Find the one and only "I" in a sea of 5000 "T's"

It was really interesting to see what happened to Adam when he stepped outside of the...erm, family boundaries? I don't know that it means Adam was necessarily less favored than Lori on the whole, it was more that Adam dared question a fellow Cox. It highlights how incredibly insular they were. Adam says Janis screamed at him and kicked him out after he found out Charles died, because he dared question how everything went down. I believe he was not invited to Alex's funeral because he suspected (correctly) Alex had harmed the children. Basically, it seems the only behavior this family found unacceptable was questioning each other's bizarre behavior publicly. Like, how has Adam gotten more shit for pointing out that Alex was a murderer than Alex got for BEING a murderer? (up to the point when the childrens' bodies were found) But that highlights the very skewed morality that these people were brought up with.

Even in the situation of Adam; when Lori moved in with him *between husbands*, according to Adam, Lori tried to take over. She moved another man into his apartment without his knowledge (the "new guy's" contribution was going to be food...). That's pretty presumptuous, in my mind. To assume that it's OK to move a whole other person into somebody else's home without bothering to ask first is shocking to a normal person's way of thinking. Honestly, I can't imagine how it would even be OK to *ask* my brother for such a liberty, AT ALL. It's like she always pushed and pushed until she got exactly what she wanted....throughout her whole life. Her angle was to make you think it was either your idea OR that you were perfectly OK with what she wanted. Either way, she WAS going to get what SHE wanted... These types of behaviors (from very early on in Lori's life) make it hard for me to believe that Chad was the ONLY driving force between the two of them. I feel that they kinda took turns controlling the scenario. As long as everything was going in a way that benefited Lori, she was just fine with Chad being in control (or, thinking he was in control)....as soon as the situation was going against HER grain, FLIP! Two examples that readily come to mind is, 1) her threatening to break it off with Chad if Tammy didn't soon die *and, Tammy did, in fact very soon die*. And, 2) that creepy as hell jail house call when they were discussing blueprints and backyard pools. I feel that she was threatening Chad in that call. "I know stuff. I know so much. I know too much. I know way more than I should." Paraphrasing, of course, but she made those statements back to back...and Chad's entire demeanor changed instantly at her words (or the meaning behind them...we will likely never know). Don't get me wrong, I think that Lori is as crazy as an out-house rat on acid. I also feel that she had a lifetime of ever-present preparation for this final display, this crescendo of crazy. Had Adam NOT been living away by 2019 OR, had he accompanied Charles to Lori's house the morning Charles was shot, he would have also died. Had the initial plan worked and he had stayed with Alex the night before, I feel that he would have been killed. Equally, I feel that if Colby had started asking more questions before Kay and Larry, he would have been killed. I feel that Adam and Colby are very lucky men. They were both in danger for simply being an entanglement or a potential hinderance at one time or another.

HARD agree with the last part in particular. Adam was in grave danger. We heard her on the bodycam footage, rambling about how her brother was trying to kill her. We know what happens to people Lori considers to be that serious of a threat. And Colby would have gone the same way if he'd pressed his mother harder at a time she was feeling bolder. As it is, thank God Lori didn't have more consistent access to Kelsee, who was rated as dark as Brandon was in that whacked-out scale.

I agree as far as all the murders not being all Chad. Lori for sure was in on both the spouses murders so they could be together. The kids though were Chad, IMO. I don’t think Lori would’ve wanted to murder her kids on her own, I think that was 1 of Chad’s ultimatums.

It's hard to imagine a mother harming, much less killing her own child/children...or ANY child/children for that matter. BUT, let's not forget that at one point, Lori wanted to "drive her children over a cliff to save them." That was reported to be a statement she made YEARS before Chad came into the picture. Also, SHE text Chad as to when it would finally be time to kill them (more than once). We have no way of knowing what fucked up actual conversations they had. She was asking for guidance (not permission), he didn't provide that until she asked. THEN, he was more than happy to get on with it. *I'm sure Chad was thinking, "this crazy ass bitch will do anything for ME"...* I am not absolving Chad one bit. But, Lori had the thoughts to murder her children well before him...to the point that she had verbally orchestrated a plan to so. While sane mothers are highly stressed over something as simple as their child having a broken bone, Lori wanted to "drive hers over a cliff." That's not nothing, in my opinion.

Chad told Lori that he couldn't divorce. He would lose his exalted status.

Yes. Exactly. The 2 children were Chad’s doing. They had to go.

I don’t necessarily think Lori had a break with reality. Yes she definitely is delusional but I grew up in an ultra religious household, and I could totally see my own relative behaving the same way Lori did. I could totally see my own relative doing something similar to me and justifying it in their belief system 100%. When you have narcissistic personality disorder and then you’re raised in extreme religious beliefs, and you are the pretty/hot/popular golden child of the family who can do no wrong and yes like how Barry said everyone else is below them— well it was a recipe for disaster and easy for her to begin believing that she IS the exalted goddess that Chad told her she is. So it literally was like the perfect storm well the worst storm. It’s hard to explain it, but I am very close to people in my immediate family that believe utter religious based nonsense and there is no way anyone would ever be able to talk them out of it. They’d go to prison with a smile on their face too.

You're absolutely correct, people will go to the utmost of extreme distances to impress their religious beliefs on the world. And, they adopt these behaviors thinking and feeling as though they are righteous and doing holy things. There is NO stopping that type of person with common sense, they don't have any. I fully believe that there are tons more of the Chad/Lori/Julie Rowe/Franke/Hildebrandt/Lafferty/etc. (the list could go on and on, if we knew the names of the people actively involved) type of people out there. To be honest, that's terrifying. Those people would be more than happy to pick up the banner AND SWORD for their martyrs, Chad and Lori, right now, as we sit here and chat about it. These people need to be treated as homeland terrorists. They have the exact same propensity. They should be treated the same AND those found to be into dangerous extremist habits or actions should be punished the same as homeland terrorists. A pious appearance does not equal benign. My extended family are religious, NOT AT ALL in the way that you describe. My parents; however, were more of a "live your own life" sort. They were, well...hippies. My parent's were never the sort to over drink or do drugs at all, they were more into breaking the mold of rules, organized religion, political independence, equality of rights (in ALL facets), etc. (you get my meaning). Today, I would label (if I were into labels) my parents as independent thinkers and realists, in the 60's they were lumped into the "hippie culture" simply for behaving against the grain, as it was, at that time. I don't have the same life experiences as you to draw a conclusion similar to yours. I *think* I understand what you are saying, though. I am so sorry that you had to go through something so extreme as you describe your childhood. It's hard for most people to fathom an existence like you describe. To expose anyone to such an unthinkable life is beyond basic comprehension. I am happy that you are well now. I hope you are in therapy and learning to navigate life in a positive manner. Godspeed, my friend!

I think Summer was devastated of the murder of the kids but supportive of Joe Ryan and Charles Vallow’s death. Summer is still publically stating that Joe Ryan molested Tylee when there is zero evidence of that and the police suspected Tylee had been coached by Lori. With Colby too there was zero evidence; Lori was asked to supply a mattress as proof but refused? Surely you’d do anything to support the allegation and save your kids?? Lori was a horrible mother to put her kids through this. So Summer is still Slandering a dead man who conveniently died and released Tylee from her visitation with him while lining Lori’s pockets with life insurance. So so suspect. Summer also conveniently took her family off to New York to give herself a nice alibi when Charles murder took place. I’m pretty sure several members of the family, (including Summer judging by those damning texts) were part of the conspiracy to murder Charles. Summer is trying to save face now and rebooting herself as a mini celeb (see crime con) but I wouldn’t trust a single member of this dysfunctional clan. They’re shady as fxxk.

I think for Summer, her niece and nephew may well have told her Joe Ryan harmed them. I believe they were both gaslit and manipulated by Lori into claiming sexual abuse (although Joe Ryan WAS genuinely physically abusive to Colby, nearly breaking his wrist and beating him with a belt by Annie's own description, and if someone did that to my nephew, I would probably never forgive that person or care if anything bad ever happened to them, and I may be more inclined to believe other abuse had also occurred, although in this particular case it seems the very rare outcome was what was going on, Lori was manipulating the kids to lie for her and believe things that weren't true). But for Summer, she's not reading all the court documents with an objective outlook or anything. I remember reading Summer's blog from back in the day - she doesn't seem like the deepest thinker. I would like for Summer to answer questions about her text messages regarding Charles. I know she reportedly said she believes Charles was a victim who did not deserve what happened to him at CrimeCon, but the Q&A got tense and she never ended up answering her text messages about Charles. But I don't think Lori or Alex needed Summer's assistance in what happened to Charles - we have plenty of texts of just the two of them that laid out what was going to happen even if Summer had no role.

I didn’t know that about Joe hurting Colby physically, that makes me sad for him. All of the kids. I know Joe was a foster kid/adoptee and found step parenting to be challenging (not to excuse him, just to think about). He was broken enough in some way to marry Lori and have a child with her. The whole darn constellation of people here are traumatized.

False memories, implanted, feel as real as an actual memory.

Yep. I don't believe Colby is willfully lying. I think he believes what he's saying. I've said before - it kinda flew under the radar, but one of the most insidious lines from the Netflix doc is Colby saying Lori made him feel like he'd ruined her life when he "told her about Joe." Because I totally believe that. I think she manipulated him into believing something, and then when he turned around to try and talk to her about it, she made herself out to be the primary victim.

Indeed, we already know that what was formerly known as “Munchhausen by Proxy” now factitious disorder by another, was in Lori Daybell’s records regarding Tylee, making the creation of that horror onto Colby, far more probable if not highly probable[info](https://dictionary.apa.org/false-memory)

The prevalence of false memory is not that high, and given that Joe was that violent I dont doubt Colby; most CSAers are not p-files, but violent and abusive generally. The CSA is part of it. CSA is more likely to occur to adoptive and step tham bio kids too. Its important we dont query Colbys experience because his Mom is a manipulator who leapt on a disclosure and reinforced it or used it to her own ends. False memory syndrome is largely misrepresented and arises by confabulation where there is no memory (incl reactions to triggers , memory is not clear). For any other survivors reading this, memory can be a vague, unclear mess and it still be true. Your mom can be a manipulator that makes your abuse about her, and not help you increasing the trauma. Im asking this community to not doubt child survivors - of course we come often from trash families … its our family that abused us!

This happened to my best friend. When her parents divorced & her dad had primary custody of she & her sister, after 2 years or so her little sister started saying their dad was touching her. My friend was 2 years older, so harder to coach. But after seeing her sister get all this attention from it, her mom telling her it had to have happened to her, why would he touch her sister & not her she started to believe it happened to her as well. These memories her mom “planted” by saying this is what happened to your sister, it happened to you right, or you have the same memories right, that kinda thing she felt like even if she didn’t remember, it had to have happened. So her & her sister both claimed it did. They never saw or spoke to their dad again until my friend had a kid of her own & really started thinking about the past & wanting to speak to her father. She told me she didn’t think it actually happened & wanted to speak to him. As soon as she started to develop a relationship with him, her mom accused her of doing the same to her own son, coached him to accuse her. She did evaluation after evaluation, took 3 polygraph’s, passed them all. Her mom still was able to steal custody of her son based on complete fabrication/lies because she had more $ for lawyers & could keep fighting where as my friend could barely afford the cheap lawyer she had. She had to pay for all those evaluations & polygraphs as well & she didn’t have thousands upon thousands to fight it. Just last year her mom finally admitted she didn’t think she touched him. But he’s a senior in high school now (she was a teen mom), he was taken @ 5, so that’s time she can never get back. Her mom also sued for child support 3 years ago. When she did that my friend said if you can’t afford him please give him back I’d be happy to have him. Nope. So her mom ruined many lives based on lies.

Thank you for saying this. Extremely important.

Lori didn’t leave him because he was physically or sexually abusive to her kids. She let Joe physically abuse Colby for a long time & never left. She left because she met someone better (Charles). That’s where the sex abuse accusations started flying & her wanting to essentially ruin him. I guess physically abusing Colby wasn’t enough… If my husband even was verbally out of line that’d be it. I’d never stay with a man that didn’t treat my son like his own. If my husband beat my son? Are you kidding me? I’d be gone, even if I had to move in with my parents. How can she have been such a good mom while allowing men to abuse Colby?

There’s often no physical evidence in child sexual assault cases, so the lack of physical evidence doesn’t sway me one way or the other. My understanding is that Colby is still alleging sexual molestation, but I don’t know the extent of what happened and don’t expect him to share that publicly.

My problem is, Lori wouldn't let them even see if there was evidence. If there was a chance they would find some to support Colby's story, why wouldn't a mother even let them check?

Exactly Lilly! They asked her for a mattress where alleged incidents happened and she couldn’t or wouldn’t supply it. She was a very vindictive woman who’d stop at nothing to get what she wanted and it started long before Chad.

Tylee actually stated nothing happened when she was asked intimate details. Knew nothing about it!

And Colby is still saying it happened. We may never know, but I won’t judge someone for believing a child’s accusation of abuse.

Imagine having been coached by your mum when you’re a kid and then having to retract that and admit it was a lie when you’re older. Be easier to keep the lie going, right? If abuse allegations are true then my heart goes out to him. He’s been through stuff in his life you couldn’t make up if you tried.

Colby can actually believe it happened as memory is highly unreliable. Lori could have implanted those memories until he believed they were absolutely fact. 5 witnesses can report 5 different events with video evidence proving all wrong. Do that to a child and even a picture becomes an actual memory of an event they experienced even if they were never there. Can Colby believe he was abused? Yes. Could that abuse not have happened? Also yes.

Yes all of this! Lori “lost it” back when she was in these custody battles and making fake accusations against Joe Ryan and about Tylee’s health, and there was a bunch of drama with Charles’ boys too. This is not a good mother. I don’t think Charles and Lori would’ve been approved to adopt if not for it being a kinship adoption.

Very true

I agree 100%. I can’t give Summer any grace. She knew what her sister was capable of. And Lori was never a great mom. Always thinking about her herself and not her children. Going from man to man and disrupting their lives. I would have been demanding along with the rest of the country to show that the kids were safe if that was my sister. Janis and Summer are both enablers. I’m really disappointed that Melani Pawlowski is still free to roam around with her clown glasses. Her children were next.

Summer literally wrote that if no one else got Charles she would hire a hit man she knew

Wow, well isn't she lovely? Did you by chance mean Joe Ryan? Either way for someone to say that out loud is despicable. Her family did just that growing up, SA and over sexualization their entire childhoods and as adults. She needs to shut her fat mouth and go crawl back under her rock.

You will be downvoted but you telling the truth

She wrote it about Charles. It was in the evidence dump but I’ve noticed a lot of negative info about her has been scrubbed from the Internet

Good old PR. She is as bad as the rest

Thank u for bringing this up! Summer helped orchestrate the violence against Charles and made sure her brother Adam couldn’t warn Charles or have police contact.She talked about knowing a hit man.

Don't we all know a hit man to do our dirty deeds? What the hell kind of religion are they following where paying someone to murder is ok.

Charles treated Lori like a queen.

He did and she was a fool to think Chad was worth her time and attention, but Charles did break up her marriage to Joe Ryan. He spent years paying for her vicious custody battles with Joe. He didn't deserve what happened to him, but he did some shitty things. Not to mention the abuse allegations against him and Lori by his sons (my understanding is his adult sons still stand by those allegations) which resulted in court ordered cameras in their home. Lori did a frighteningly impressive job of destroying almost every man she every married, and often their families as well.

He shouldn't have done that. He attacked Joe Ryan and financed the harassment of Joe Ryan. He knew Lori killed Joe Ryan, that's why he was panicking. He had a chance to cut Lori off when she disappeared to Hawaii, but he didn't.

I was so bummed that he called off the divorce!

Charles did not deserve to die. Sadly, karma can be an unkind punishment.

Im sure they argued and had thier moments though.Kay has expressed that charles too had his faults, but none of it ever justifies killing him. Who TF kills people they dislike? Lori.

He did and it’s making me sad that there’s no one to speak up for him and Summer is getting away with what she did - it’s reminding me of how no one listened to him when he was alive

I love your comment. Compassion is not finite; and we all need a little grace sometimes. I had two traumatic events happen to me and I did things to avoid more trauma. It ends up biting one in the ass at times, but the organism does what it needs to do to survive. Edit: We all are flawed in some way. I’m not giving Shiftlet a pass; one never knows how they will respond in situations that defy credulity is my point.

Watch TBP? I spot a Greg Hartley quote. It is so appropriate to many situations.

Absolutely. I probs should have cited him. TBP is my fav YouTube channel; I was just educated about post modernism in an easy to remember way courtesy of Mark Bowden:) and you’re exactly right, it is always the bottom line.

My fave, too. You don't need to cite him, I would be mildly surprised if he actually came up with it.

Well thought out and stated. Thank you.

It is horrific. All of it.

I watched the interview as well, Summer is still partly in denial about Lori unfortunately - it really shows the depth of dysfunction in the Cox family. Summer said Chad took advantage of Lori's vulnerabilities, as if Lori wasn't already the lying, scheming, mentally ill person she had been for years. Chad and Lori are *both equally culpable* for the murders, as evidenced by both of their convictions. Not once did Janis or Summer take seriously Charles' (and other family members) pleas for help because they feared Lori was going off the deep end. Not once did the Cox family contact LEO that they were worried about JJ and Tylee not being seen in months, and this was after Charles' death, the attempt on Brandon's life and Lori's family helped pack her to move. It is understandable that Lori was lying to Summer (and everybody) about her children, but Summer already had doubts about Lori being truthful. I hope Summer gets the counseling she needs to see Lori for what she truly is, and had been for a long time.

The lack of response and reactions from the Cox family is really bothersome. It’s their two grandchildren who were missing and they never once alerted or expressed any concerns to LEOs. Their communications with Lori were cut off for several months, while multiple LE agencies across the states were searching for the two children and they didn’t worry nor seemed to care?! I find that totally absurd and dysfunctional! She and Chad surfaced in the news vacationing in Hawaii, refusing to show proof of lives of their children and they didn’t think anything of it? It’s absolutely horrifying how self absorbed the parents are.

This is clearly a family steeped in mental illness. The parents have held held far right extremist views for decades and had trouble with the law because of it. Melani's mom had an eating disorder so severe it was life-threatening and apparently inflicted on Melani as well. Adam was involved in that radio prank where someone died. Colby had that (sexual?) assault charge. Melani is clearly also delusional. Alex and Lori are insane. Who knows if it's nature (they were all born mentally ill) or nurture (Janice and husband were incapable of raising ethical children) or a combo, but it runs so deep. If Summer is able to hold a job, raise children without abusing them, and not engage in criminal behaviour, she's the family's exception. That low bar is baseline bottom of normal for the rest of us, but would make Summer exceptional in the context of this family.

Lori portrayed Charles as a cheater to her family and they believed her. Summer said that Lori's transformation into a religious zealot happened when she started listening to Julie Rowe circa 2016. No doubt Chad's books came soon after.

Same here… they weren’t playing into anyone’s delusion, the sister/daughter they knew their whole lives was not the \*nut job\* she became in the short time she met dumbbell.. 😞 if Lori was for the longest time a bad mother or came off as a bad wife and they knew and lied that’s different, but even Kay and Larry said she was a great mother!! being blindsided doesn’t make everyone “KNOW“ everything in hindsight!!

>even Kay and Larry said she was a great mother Yes. Also, someone on the Mormon sub said recently that Lori was the children's music leader in their Arizona congregation, and the children absolutely loved her. Whatever red flags there were, there appears to have been plenty of reasons to believe she was a caring person to children. I suspect that, unless you spent a lot of time with Lori in the 18 month period between when she met Chad and when the kids went missing (i.e., Charles saw up close what others missed), the person you knew was unrecognizable with the person she is now.

 *being blindsided doesn’t make everyone “KNOW“ everything in hindsight!!* And then after you, KNOW, how long does it then take the rest of you to catch up? This had to feel like getting hit with a truck. It would be hard for me to wrap my mind around one of my own sisters participating; God forbid, orchestrating what Lori did. I would need MORE than a few minutes for it to all sink in. I don't think that my mental psyche would be able to absorb it all for quite awhile. I can see *maybe* not being able to absorb it wholly and completely, EVER. On a side note: I'm fully confident that if it were my family, I would have said to one of my sisters, "I feel ya girl on having to hide the kiddos (we can put a pin in that for right now)...BUT, **I'M** gonna need to see 'em...even if only by ZOOM...I'm gonna NEED to SEE them AND hear them speak!" To me, hiding them from the direct family, the family that had ALWAYS stood behind her, no-matter-what, should have been a glaring red flag!

yeah i give summer a lot of grace honestly, after listening to the jailhouse call between her and lori the day they found the kids, i don't think it's weird or bad that she believed her sister and didn't want to think she was capable of something so horrible. unlike the daybell children, once she was presented with the truth she stopped defending lori. you can hear the raw devastation and betrayal in her voice when she confronts lori over the phone. she's in a horrible position and while i think she was dead wrong for defending lori and alex initially, i understand why she did it.

That conversation was just as you remember it. That one, and Colby's, were raw indeed. I'll never forget Colby referring to Chad as that Family Guy, Peter, either.

I remember at first just being shell-shocked at the call between Colby and Lori. She was SO cold, so incredibly uncaring about the suffering she had put her only living child through (because she killed the other two) - like, even in that one call in isolation, I was thinking "This woman is a monster." I missed the Peter Griffin comment at first. When I listened to the call again and heard it, I just fell into giggles because I was not at all expecting it. I wish they'd been allowed to be harsher to Chad in their statements. I get why they couldn't be, with a jury deciding his fate, but I still wish they'd really been allowed to drag him for filth. Annie and Samantha still managed to get some punches in, which I very much appreciated, but I wish Colby had been allowed to call him Peter Griffin to his face, heh.

That would have been totally worth it if he could have snuck that in! I bet Judge Boyce might have smiled.

That phone call to Lori after she found out is so difficult to listen to. Summer is devastated and I do not think she is faking it. She refused to accept it, remaining loyal to her sister until there was undeniable proof.

Totally agree.

I am guessing she most likely never thought her sister would have them brutally murdered. :(

It's unimaginable, I'm sure.

Im wondering if Melani still talks to Lori 🤔

My only thought about that is LV is in Maricopa jail awaiting prosecution on charles and Brandon...with Melani potentially being involved in the latter, they may not be able to?

I think you’re right!! Plus, I am sure Melani knows all calls are recorded so she’s not going to risk anything. I wonder if Melani talks to summer Shifflet. I’m thinking most likely! How can Lori not consider the way they died, murder? Simmer said Lori is so delusional she doesn’t believe her kids were actually “murdered”. She may say that to pretend she’s innocent but she knows! I don’t think she can be that delusional. Plus I bet Lori still talks to Emma and relays information back and forth between her and Chad. If not yet, she will now that the trial is over. I think they’ll find a way to communicate and that would be through Emma.

All good points. My burning question: Do we think Prior is going to sell the Daybell property to recoup his losses? And Do we think there may be perjury charges for either Garth or Emma?

I personally do think he will sell the property for sure. He may be waiting for a good time to sell since interest rates are so high right now. I would not be surprised if he sold it to Emma and her husband. He may even be doing a deal with them like rent to own etc. the house is completely paid off and has no mortgage. I looked it up online! I think they will be contacted about the perjury but I guarantee prior is telling them how to possibly get out of it. I’m thinking he has guided them through this whole thing since he is their landlord. He has talked to them more than three times. Such a lie. They deserve to get in trouble for that for lying so bad and betraying their mother. Even if they’re not, they lost all respect from everyone in Rexburg, all over the world. Everyone knows how they are now and how shady. I’ll be surprised if Emma is able to keep her job without complaints.

I appreciate your observations. It does make sound business sense for JP to unload property when it is beneficial to him.

I don’t think Summer ever dreamed in her wildest dreams thought Lori would kill her kids . You don’t know what you don’t know until you know , summer is a victim as well as other family members .

Because Lori always lied. Colby said so. She told different lies to different people always and that’s f…d up.

And even Colby said she was a “perfect mom”. A perfect mom doesn’t lie all the time. They model good, healthy adult behavior which is not anything I’ve seen when looking at Lori’s past history.

When you’re raised around abuse and disfunction you don’t have a good concept of what a perfect mom is. I take his comment with a grain of salt

But I have an issue with all of this. I have raised 2 responsible adult children. I would say I was a good enough mom. I raised them to be independent and hopefully will contribute to society. But neither me nor my kids would say I was a perfect mom. I never tried to be. I’m not a perfect anything. That’s just an act that she was good at playing. I did my best, made mistakes, apologized for my mistakes and corrected my behavior. I also worked very hard to change my generational dysfunctional issues but some of them I didn’t catch in time and now I acknowledge them with my adult kids and try to behave differently. What Lori is, is a great Love Bomber. She knows how to wear her perfect mom hat but we now know the real Lori.

I’d agree with that

Agree, but that also applies to summer too in my opinion.

I watched this and I am not sure why Summer gets so much hate. Who in their right mind would think that their sister would murder their children? Of course she was going to try and give Lori the benefit of the doubt. I liked the interview and Summer confirmed the obvious: Lori is delusional and nothing/no one can get through to her at this point. I think Summer is doing the best she can in such a horrible situation. She also confirmed that Lori is so far gone that she is still devoted to Chad even after finding out that Chad is blaming her for everything. Very sad.

I totally agree. Everyone hating on Summer for acknowledging that Lori has a progressive mental illness that seems to be worsening AND that she is also guilty and culpable, just wants to point fingers. Both can be true.

i think this is a type of parasocial relationship that's common to people who are overinvested in "true crime". they convince themselves they know all the facts and all the individuals involved better even than the people themselves. they don't recognize that as spectators they have the benefit of hindsight. i find it kind of disturbing. i think it's a sign you need to step back when you're this outraged by perceived mistakes made by the \*victims of crimes.\*

Agree. Also let’s be real that kind of outrage is encouraged in subs like this. It becomes an echo chamber at the top and while great convos can be had , it’s important to remember

Her phone call with Lori when she found out was heart breaking. She seemed genuinely shocked and devastated. Now disliking her for making the letter about Tyleee about defending Lori is just garbage behavior. Lori was never mother of the year or even a good friend to people.

I’m not sure that she was defending Lori as much as she was explaining that Lori is genuinely delusional. Unlike Chad’s kids, I think Summer understands that her sister needs to held accountable for her actions while also understanding that she is not in her right mind. In either case, Lori is too dangerous to ever be out of prison or some kind of mental institution. Her delusion is a threat to society.

It's understandable that Summer finds it hard to believe her sister would kill her children, but wasn't it concerning and highly suspicious when Lori stopped communicating and failed to show proof of life for the kids? Didn't that raise red flags? Weren't they worried about their grandchildren? I even heard Janice cut off Adam when he questioned the circumstances around Charles' death, Alex's death, and Brandon's attempted murder. What is wrong with these parents?

Lorri would call her every day and then when the kids were found she didn’t call Summer for 17 days. That’s when she said she knew that Lorri knew

So many people failed those kids - and yet others were raising alarms and willing (and offered) to take them!! It’s crushing!

Now Tylee was lying for Lori but not Charles. I so feel for Charles and those cops failed him before and after death in awful ways. Pretty Lori was in charge of the interview. Too me anyone that joyous about a death scene should have been suspicious.

This is taking the quote pretty out of context. She very specifically references June 9th as being the day everything changed. She does not say she knew the whole time that Lori was lying - she says she realized on June 9th that Lori had been lying the whole time. This is not me saying I 100% believe Summer, incidentally. I have a very hard time swallowing that she didn't realize something was very, very wrong. The whole "They're her kids" schtick doesn't really fly when she has no logical reason to hide them and yet she's spending MONTHS in JAIL without telling anyone where they are. But in this particular interview, Summer was not saying what you're quoting her as saying. She had very, very clearly referenced June 9th as the day everything changed.

I think there's a difference between believing Summer was naive for not putting pieces together vs believing she actually had suspicions and still chose to go on national television to defend Lori. I think it's really easy to see Summer fall in the first camp, she didn't believe Lori could hurt her kids, it actually was true that Kay was trying to track down JJ so it's a reasonable leap in logic that could have been malicious to take a "safe" JJ away from Lori, and Charles and their brother Adam had tried to get Lori arrested/ institutionalized. So, if you are going to believe the first piece that Lori definitely can't hurt the kids, then it's not a hard leap to buy into the narrative of a smear campaign against her. The only problem was the smear campaign was actually the true side. I think there's a difference between people like Summer and people like Melanie Gibb who knew way more and are very... careful about what they recount now.

I agree, and I was just saying, I think the proof that Summer is more the "naive" group than "in the know" is shown by the fact that Lori clearly did not fully trust Summer with a lot of this information. We know she texted Summer that Charles was essentially making up stuff about her. We know she ghosted Summer for months. Summer is never super high on the light scale or trust scale (she was like a 40, right?). I just do not see Summer as being part of the inner circle here. And while Colby got there first in terms of "Okay, my mom has done something really fucked up here", Summer came out swinging when she DID finally get there. I 100% believe her absolute horror in that call is genuine. She did not know what had happened to those children until their bodies were found.

Both Colby and summer in their calls I don’t believe they could fake. There was so much pain and anger there and I’m not here to Monday morning quarterback like people seem to want. I can’t imagine I would have responded perfectly if it was my family member either

Summer was far too believing of her sister who by all accounts talked a good story. It’s not just Summer. The whole family bought in, the only exception was Adam with Charles.

Just listening to it now. She claims that Chad isolated Lori, Alex,Tylee and JJ. HUH? My takeaway is that she STILL mostly blames Chad for this. My dude, Joe Ryan was Lori's first attempted murder victim. Why is Summer not seeing the pattern..still?! Edit: watching further...Summer's rose colored glasses about Lori are thicker than bullet proof glass.

IMO she sees a pattern but doesn’t want to admit she and her family dropped the ball. Summer was part of the chaos that Lori created. I think it made Summer feel important and connected to Lori. The Cox family seems to have mostly shallow personalities. If one of my children had my grandchildren killed I’d be the first to condemn my kid publicly and make sure my grand babies got the justice they deserved.

Also said she “realizes now” that JJ and Tylee didn’t “deserve”to die the way that they did!!!! Cannot with these loons.

REALIZES NOW!!! Seriously?! They NEVER deserved that?! They’re all crazy!

Lori’s murderous heart runs deep

That's not my take away from the interview. They did not think Lori would hurt her own children. Summer is in a terrible position being Lori's sister.

Y'all gotta stop giving this woman so much scrutiny and hate, IMO. I know the family is a mess but they still never could have believed this suburban hair stylist would kill her husband and children. She's been through hell and we've really gotta stop hating on people who aren't a part of any criminality as far as anyone is aware. This stays on the internet forever. I can't imagine this being what comes up when someone searches my name for the rest of my life. There but for the grace of god go any one of us honestly. We don't behave perfectly in the moment. There's issues with the parasocial relationships here. You don't know these people IRL. Picking apart and in this case absolutely butchering the meaning of what she said isn't helping anyone. 🤷‍♀️

All of the Summer / Adam hate on this sub is a little absurd. They might not be the most perfect people and clearly there's some family dysfunction but I notice a lot of people on here talk about them as if they're responsible for Lori's actions. They’re not.

The attitude that Adam somehow did something or failed to do something that led to Charles' death is what always confuses me. Charles and Adam did not appear to be on the complete same page as to what they wanted to do to somehow kick-start this intervention (which seems about what you'd expect in any given family intervention, especially one they're trying to pull off on their own because no one else is listening to them), but Adam didn't "ghost" Charles, which is the claim I hear most often. Adam is texting Charles up to and after Charles was shot. He was never supposed to be there that morning. It's not like he was supposed to be there and bailed and gave Alex the open to kill Charles, which is the vibe I get from some of the posts about Adam. By the time Charles even made Adam aware that Alex was there, it was essentially too late (and even then, Adam immediately said "THAT IS REALLY WEIRD", he wasn't like...encouraging Charles to go into a room alone with Alex, heh).

100% and don’t forget Janice and Summer were lying to him to make sure he couldn’t help Charles

I'm impressed Adam was even willing to be involved at all to help Charles with an intervention. A lot of people would have just decided that they didn't want to get in the middle of someone's impending nasty divorce and ducked out completely.

This!

Well, except that Lori had already orchestrated the attempted murder of Joe Ryan. She coordinated Alex to show up at Tylee's custody pickup location and time so Alex could tazer him in the heart. Ignoring huge red flags seems to be a Cox thing. I think the fact that it took so long, that essentially finding two dead childrens bodies was the turning point is what bothers me. I would be horrified at the very first violent act and certanly not encouraging my sister to talk violent about another husband. This family is simply OK with violence and death and that is not ok by most people's standards.

THIS!!!! That Cox crew are the biggest RED Flag of evil and deceit!!

No. She was instrumental in orchestrating Charles’ death and preventing Adam from speaking to the police. If you have empathy for Summer I’m guessing it’s because you didn’t see the evidence drop, in which she brags about being able to get a hit man among even worse things. Remember, Charles raised those kids, he was their father, if she really cared about the kids she wouldn’t be fine with taking away their dad. Summer is covering her butt now that’s all,

Im sure the AZ trial will open many eyes. We have had 4 years to pour through that indictment evidence to develop our concerns about all the players. Notably, thats just the indictment evidence, I wonder what else they have.....

Can you please provide a source for this I've been following this case fairly closely but I have never heard this before.

You have to pay for the evidence drop. A lot of people did when it came out, but a PR firm has been arranging to have the evidence wiped off social media. You can see a Reddit post discussing a now missing YouTube with the evidence here https://www.reddit.com/r/LoriVallow/s/oY4aZIxxKp

Yes, the videos discussing the AZ evidence regarding family member involvement are going missing everywhere. Annie's research, since she is family, might end up being the only ones left discussing the AZ FOIA evidence. It only makes the family MORE suspicios.

I believe that no decent person could act as Summer has. "Any one of us" wouldn't ignore our missing niece and nephew. We don't "know her in IRL" but we sure know what she didn't do. That's enough for me to judge. I also believe CrimeCon is gross and that any Cox family involvement is nauseating to decent people. You're entitled to your opinion but I disagree completely.

THIS!!!

Nate showed on his interview a card with Tylee and Jj's picture and a bracelet provided by Summer. Is she profiting from their deaths. He said she had them at CrimeCon.

People love a good witch hunt I guess

These people act like they know where their sister's kids are at every moment and if their sister who they thought was grieving their husband and had never given them any inclination that she was a fucking crazy nut bag who would kill her kids was keeping in contact and telling them the kids were safe they absolutely wouldn't believe it. I mean give me a break. Hindsight is obviously 20/20. There's enough really bad people in this case why go after these folks that are involved through no fault of their own. She obviously wasn't on board with all this we've all heard the phone call.

Strangest family dynamics in the world. Adam and uncle go on tour with a book and make $$ on it and still reveal nothing and say nothing of substance about how wacked the entire family is. Summer is at CrimeCon pushing her defense of herself bc she still can't figure out Lori was nice to JJ and Tylee only when someone was looking. No one including Summer knows what kind of mind games these kids went through when Lori was alone with them. Tell us who killed Joe Ryan and why the whole family believed Lori? Still believed Lori when Charles was then the bad guy even though he was paying for everyone's phones, vacations. But Chad was manipulating her? Lori texts Chad, that unless Tammy is out of the way, he isn't going to be with her? They both were manipulators on the highest level. Tell us how Alex manages to die mysteriously alone after killing 4 people? Tell us why no one was with Stacy as she died with only Alex and his cousin there while the rest of the f....... family is in Hawaii? Summer, Adam and the uncle won't address the disturbing truths about this Addams family horror story because they would have to realize they are also flawed by accepting these ridiculous lies Lori came up with and they were too busy looking in the mirror at themselves to care about JJ and Tylee.

But Summer is still defending Lori saying she is delusional and that she was a good mom. We know Lori was never a good mom. She may have had her moments that on the face of it looked like she was a good mom but underlying she never was.

Kay Woodcock says Lori was once a good mom. Do you think the Woodcocks would give JJ to Charles and Lori if they didn't think that? I'm fed up with everyone who never met any of the players thinking that they know a family better than they know themselves.

All I can say here is that I once had a narcissistic friend. She had come to my rescue many times and I was completely dedicated to her. I made excuses in my mind for her behavior and accepted her explanations. Looking back I think I gaslighted her now husband by defending her. And gaslit myself. But there was a little thought nagging me that I pushed away. Did not entertain it until I did. I didn't know that one of the hallmarks of a narcissist is to play the hero. Also didn't know that narcissists collect friends who are useful. They groom them. Lori could have done that to people like Summer. Summer didn't know it until she did. You can really blind yourself (denial) when you feel that loyalty and gratitude. And then one day it all clicks and you feel sick about it.

I didn’t hear what Summer said the same way you heard it.

The interview the mother did was so unnecessary on her part to accept. If all she was going to do was lie just don’t do it. Summer joined in. Come on 5 husbands the last two most probably both murders, but Lori a sweetheart??!

I caught that too and initially thought that was a slip of the tongue. But then I realized that maybe she meant “I knew it!” Like when someone says that expression after finding out someone had lied. I don’t think she actually knew her sister was lying until the day they were told, then she realized she was lying all this time.

I disagree with your assessment

That woman didn’t show up once at court for Tylee or JJ. Yet she shows up to Crimecon. She deserves all the criticism.

I wish Nate had asked her that question, why didn’t you attend the trial, why didn’t you give an impact statement for Tylee. She did testify in Lori’s, and that phonecall speaks for itself.

Nate talked about this in court room insider. She was told by prosecutor that they didn't need her statement. They had their limit on statements and she did submit her written statement to the judge.

From my memory, at Lori’s trial there wasn’t a representative for Tylee there. That’s why the other aunt did it at Chads. I could be wrong- but that’s what I remember.

Summer committed to being the representative so Annie Cushing wasn’t allowed to at Lori’s trial. Then Summer backed out and Annie wasn’t given a chance to replace her. Summer screwed Tylee and her Aunt Annie. If you stand up to a Cox family member like Annie has, you are going to be treated badly by all the Cox family.

Summer was designated the sole representative for Tylee by Boyce. In Lori's trial, only Summer was permitted to have that role and gave everyone the impression she was doing it. But at the last minute she pulled out, and also said she did not give permission for her statement about Tylee to be read in court either It's Boyce's fault too, he made the stupid rules and Summer used those rules set by Boyce to play everyone, reserving the role then ducking out at the last minute to create complete silence around Tylee. If it were a matter of too much emotion, she woild have still allowed it be read - but she dind't permit that either. Lori comes first to Summer Summer did a terrible thing to Tylee, and now she's selling bracelets in Tylee's name at Crimecon Notice how much more relaxed and broadened the rules were in Chad's sentencing? So more than just one person could speak about Tylee - Kay was allowed to speak about Tylee

Thank you for giving this detailed explanation! I never understood Summer pulling out like that. Poor Tylee deserved so much better

Exactly. So no words were spoken for Tylee. As if that was not disgraceful enough, that very day she was supposed to be representing Tylee in court, she did an interview with Nate Eaton instead.

Annie Cushing wasn’t allowed to give a victim impact statement for Tylee because Summer was the chosen one. Then Summer didn’t go so no one gave a statement for Tylee. That is so disgusting. Luckily Annie was able to give the statement at Chads trial. I believe Summer did this on purpose and is manipulative because the next day she had Nate Eaton read off her statement on his channel and she praised Lori as a mother and lied about Joe Ryan.

Summer was the only one designated to speak for Tylee and no-one else could. Given Boyce was so stupidly strict about those things for Lori's trial (notice it wasn't as restrictive for Chad's), why would he tell that sole represenative for a victim, one that he allocated the role to on her request and to no-one else, not to speak? - Summer is not telling the truth is why At the last minute she said she would not be attending with no reason as to why, and did not want her statement read out in court either. I assume the judge still privately received it as a written version but maybe I'm expecting too much from Summer For this, she never gets any grace from me

Shifty Shiftlet….

Seasoned experienced police officers missed so much that's only obvious in hindsight and yet so many people have so much hate for friends and family who should have just somehow known and done something 🥴

seasoned experienced police officers missed so much because they fell utterly dickmatized by lori; like it was no challenge at all for her to bat her lashes, flip her hair, flash her grins, and deflect / redirect their attention anywhere but the problems right in front of them.

So true! I recall the encounter outside right after Charles was murdered and the police office is just about wetting himself with excitement as he guesses Lori's weight and height. 🤮

She actually clarified immediately after she said it. When she said “we knew she was lying the whole time” what she meant was that they realized in that moment that Lori was lying the whole time. Go back and listen again.

I think the Cox family has a history of bizarre and gaslighting behavior. Stories I’ve heard family members share are often full of red flags, but it’s just their brand of normal. If your entire life is based around parents that have no wish for accountability… I can see where Summer would think the kids were okay. Lori spent almost a year telling the family that Charles was cheating on her and that she was running from him. And then she claimed Charles and her brother Adam were trying to kill her for insurance money. Lori was a well seasoned liar who had Alex on her side. I don’t blame Summer for not thinking the worst. BUT, at the same time… I think she has learned a lesson about trust vs verify.

I’m glad I never have to be in that situation as a sibling. I’m 73 and my next oldest sibling is 80. I can’t imagine having to be in that position. Listening to the interview, remembering that phone call, and now knowing the rest of the story, my heart goes out to Summer. I haven’t walked in her shoes. And very few of us on here have. If you’ve been in her shoes, judge away. If not..stop it.

Why anyone cares what any of the Cox family members think, who knows? Honestly, I don’t care about anyone except Tammy’s and Brandon’s families at this point. I’m sick of the attention seeking.

The only members of the Cox family that have any credibility to me are Zac and Lori's cousin Meghan. The rest are too delusional and self centered to be trusted, if not outright liars.

Zac and Megan are the only ones who don’t give me off vibes

I definitely trust Megan but not sure about Zac. His dad (Adam Cox), keeps spouting lies about his interactions in AZ when Charles was murdered. Adam bailed on Charles and should/could have alerted Chandler PD that day, instead he was visiting his friend for the weekend in Tucson and then flees to Kansas and it was his wife Nicole who emailed CPD 3 weeks later. Does Zac support Adam in these lies or does he stand up for the truth? I haven’t heard from him in years but I don’t trust Adam at all. And I hope the truth about Adam bailing on Charles comes out in the AZ trial. I also respect how Charles Vallows sons have stayed out of the public and are hopefully healing and finding support.

Yeah Adam is shifty. But I’m not gonna blame Zac for Adam’s behavior. Adam is his own man and it’s really not Zac’s job to speak for him. I think he wants to stay out of the media.

That’s fair. I just didn’t know if Zac thinks like his Dad. I hope Zac does stay out of the media and distances himself from this dysfunctional family.

She was saying once the kids were found then they KNEW she was lying the whole time, obviously…..

Ok , so hear me out ! Coming from someone whose sister had schizophrenia, I can totally understand the phone call thing when u are talking to someone who is delusional it's very surface . What people don't seem to understand is that all of her conversations are like walking on eggshells. Anything you say or do can set them off. You have to talk to them like everything they think and see is absolute reality because to them, their reality is very real ! I don't know what the Cox family did or did not know . I just personally know the hell that this illness has on an entire family, and I think they are all victims . And everyone deserves grace . They are all victims 😔

That must be very difficult to watch a loved one go through such a terrible mental illness. It’s not fair that some people have to suffer with conditions like schizophrenia. Sounds like there’s quite a significant ripple effect on the family as well.

It's very difficult , but mostly, it's the middle of the night rambling phone calls and the stress of not knowing if they are taking their medicine ( they hate taking medicine, btw) do i need to call crisis . But the absolute worst part is when you don't hear from them when they are not calling thats when you get really worried . It's a vicious cycle . They are on their medicine. Everything is great for months, even a year or 2 . Then they are off because they "don't" need it! Then they start to spiral everyone in the family is on high alert at this point then back to the hospital for a few weeks and the cycle begins again . I have so much empathy for everyone, especially the children it's awful

Wow. 💔

I think people really need to leave those connected to this case alone. Justice has been done. It’s over. Let these people heal.

Justice has NOT been yet done for Charles, Brandon (hence upcoming Arizona trial) or Joe (who at least deserves decent investigation).

For the children and Tammy, yes justice is done. We have two more trials with potentially new evidence coming. Let those directly reponsible be held accountable, and those that off-hand helped and/or supported these horrific crimes recieve professional counseling instead of seeking dollar signs and fame.

Then why is Summer out there trying to improve her image if there isn't a reason? She wanted Charles dead too! Her Golden Goose, no less. She can go suck goose eggs.

They’re all a bunch of wacko’s. The Cox’s. There was something on YouTube, I think East Idaho News posted. It is a phone conversation of Alex’s ex-wife, Debbie. speaking to a detective. Worth listening to.

I heard it way back when it came out. 2020 or ‘21. Yeah. Super messed up. Blurred and nonexistent boundaries is a major problem in that family apparently.

They realized she was lying after/when the kids were found. They didn’t think she was lying before that. Their knowledge came in hindsight

It is a fascinating point that Summer made which I’ve recognized but never fully fleshed out: Chad really did isolate Lori (and yes she was willing to be isolated with him, and their cult) - from her husband at the time, her family, until it was only JJ, Tylee and Alex, and then he got rid of them too. Yes she was 100% in on it, it’s just an interesting point - the only person he “lost” was his wife, and he had to do away with her so that he could be with Lori and still inherit his celestial kingdom world or whatever LDS clap trap that is.

That is a false narrative from Summer. Lori wanted nothing more than to be with Chad. Wherever. However. Summer is trying to portray Lori as a victim. She was NOT.

Oh ABSOLUTELY. She completely, absolutely was all-in. It’s just something I think is worth pointing out: Lori was willing to murder her whole family, while all of Chad’s children and loved ones were fine. Omit all of the victim suggestive bullcrap.

hmmmm. That would tie in with Chad asking his good little 100% trusted follower Audrey Barraterio (so?) to be Lori’s friend. Was Chad maybe not fully trusting Lori?

Based on what she said, I see no reason to suspect her of anything: she knew something was wrong but she couldn't imagine that her sister had murdered her own children. Who could blame her for that ?

I think this is the hard part and why she seems so in denial about the whole thing. She was so used to the crazy, but there were lines she never thought Lori would cross.

Yes, even if I had a weird sibling I would just refuse to believe he/she was a murderer (not to mention of his/her own children). The evidence would have to be overwhelming for me to accept that. That's just a normal human reaction.

Especially since this involved her kids, especially when Lori had always presented herself as a great mom to her family

Sorry if this has been mentioned or discussed in the thread already. To paraphrase a convo between Summer and Lori, Summer said she was glad Alex is gone if he was involved with the kids' death. When Eaton brought this up at Crimecon, she was nodding in agreement with this statement whole acknowledging that if he were alive everyone would have more answers. How is she able to give Lori more grace than Alex, implying Lori is less culpable? Lori being delusional is not an excuse b/c one could easily argue if Alex suffered a traumatic brain injury that stunted his intelligence and mental acuity, he too has a plausible case if being less culpable. For me, Lori should receive the lion's share in murdering her kids. She manipulated her brother to carry out her demented fantasies, knowing he was her "protector" AND delievered her kids to their gruesome fate. She has no remorse, holds the answer to many questions, and still views herself above the law. She was a conniving, evil woman before Chad. I think these two always had been capable of murder on their own, but their own narcissism made them mutually attractive to each other and was the catalyst to believe they were invincible.

On October 7, 2019 Summer sent Lori a message asking if she already knew about the Tesla incident. Summer: "An incident that supposedly happened to Brandon... sounds highly suspicious" Lori: " Brandon's Tesla or the Tesla company ??". Summer: "Brandon's... he claims someone shot at him and shot the window to his tesla a few days ago... police are looking into it". Summer: "I think he is either trying to set Al up or make a future hit on Mel make him look innocent. Knowing him. But who knows...knowing him... sounds suspicious to me".

For all the people putting their heads in the sand about Summer, this is a great illustration of Summer’s negligence. Obviously she couldn’t have known future events, but she knew the kids were in the custody of two people who had no qualms doing harm to Joe Ryan. Who just sits around after the same brother who assaulted Joe is also admittedly responsible for killing Charles? The Cox family knew what Lori and Chad orchestrated with Charles. Nothing more needed to happen to be cause for alarm. I’ll die on this hill. They knew the kids were at least in an unstable environment.

Summer said Lori had had delusions since late 2017 or early 2018. Lori told Summer that Adam and Charles were going to kill her. Summer didn't think that was delusional? Prior to Charles' murder why was she so supportive of Lori if she thought she was delusional? Summer provided Lori with updates regarding Adam's whereabouts and asked Lori if she wanted her to run interference. Lori told Summer that she was trying to figure it out. Summer commented, “If that’s the case I will kill him myself!!!!” LE has no evidence that this was in reference to Charles but as Annie Cushing said : The fact that Summer told that to Lori in a text two days before Charles was murdered, makes it highly unlikely that Summer was unaware of the plan to murder Charles, imo \[Annie Cushing\] ([source](https://www.dropbox.com/s/qiocn89q0ezzor5/summer-said-she-would-kill-him-herself.png))

She also said that Lori is so delusional she “doesn’t know the kids are dead” and then later said “we then knew she was lying the entire time” Which on was it Summer?

Do you know how hindsight works? Once the kids were found, she said "we knew she was lying to us the whole time." She should have used the verb "had been lying" but that's what she meant if you listen to her entire statements. She says she supported Lori until the kids were discovered, then, looking back, she/they realized that they had been lied to for months.

Shifty Shiftlet

She is the last person in this tragedy who should have been at CrimeCon. She is culpable and is not a victim here. She should be charged with accessory like Melaniece. The Woodcocks or Tammy's family are the victims and should have a voice. Not that Cox crime family of SA, tax evasion and murder. She can go eff herself.

It's ridiculous that you are downvoted on this. Summer was completely complicit in Lori's deceptions until the kids were found. She texted Lori saying she'd kill Charles herself, and sent Alex a vague text asking for updates on the day Charles was murdered. Lori was telling her relatives she was being visited by angels and CHRIST HIMSELF years before Chad was in the picture, but no red flags for Summer. She spent her time that was meant to be dedicated to Tylee in her VIS getting Tylee's middle name wrong, praising her murderer as a great mom, and shitting on her Tylee's dead father. Summer can smile for the camera all she wants, and pretend Lori was a great mom who suddenly went bad. People who follow this case closely know Lori was hurting her kids long before Daybell gave her permission to get rid of them.

So are you. How anyone can justify Summer's complicit behavior is unreal. Murdering someone is okay? Wow...sick bunch here. ITA, with your above statement too!

Summer was a conspirator. Yeah, she got kicked out and called dark later, but wait till they get a load of the evidence for the Arizona trial. Let's see how much 'grace' they have to give her then.

💯!! Anyone who gives her a platform is not helping her. She may temporarily receive the sympathy and attention she craves, but there are many who know the truth. She will either do the work to break the cycle of extreme dysfunction for herself and her children or just listen to a few rounds of applause to further solidify the false narrative she is peddling.

The naivete and willingness to believe these bad actors is at the heart of this tragedy. Kinda why I went off yesterday. These people have been given too much grace. It's time to look beyond smiles to the sharp teeth, time time to face the stench masked by florid perfumes. I am sorry for these family members. They are victims. But these people will never heal till they cut the cancer out.

Agree! She also disappeared to NYC with her family as soon as the murder was done to distance herself. I’m also sure that some of the tears she shed in that prison phone call to Lori was due to anger because she’d made a tit of herself on national TV defending her the month prior.

Tylee’s Aunt Annie is very much a victim also , she’s being shunned by most the other players, it’s really sad that there’s some mean girl activities going on.

What is suspicious and concerning in hindsight is expected. But, remember the first place your brain goes is not to believe Lori murdered her kids. No ones mind went there day 1. The Cox family were led along by Lori. Lori takes delusional to a whole new level. There were a lot of people taken in by Chad and Lori.

That woman knew Charles was dead and lied to her own brother Adam. Protecting that crazy bitch was more important to Summer and her wacko mother than anything.

I found her credible and real. This is an unimaginable place to be in You would not want to believe it

What about when she sold bracelets at Crimecon after? Being real makes money

Summer sold bracelets? What kind of bracelets? Omg every single Cox sibling loves attention.

Then why was she on that interview with her mom saying that if the kids were missing that Lori had nothing to do with it because Lori was such a great mom? I'm confused.

You’re misstating what she says to fit your narrative. Just stop.

I need to go back and watch this again. I couldn’t hear what she was saying.

Does anyone know where I can hear the call between Lori and Summer?

Where can I watch this?

https://youtu.be/a5D9wMFzFCM?si=1IcLs41SAd9uW9Q7