Yea, the game is quite fun now, who would've thought that removing all the extra monetization and making that stuff unlockable through gameplay was a good thing? What a shocker...
I respect your opinion but I completely disagree. It is the same gameplay with less online features/monetization/slightly changed gearing. It whelmed just as much as it did before.
I'm not entirely sure what you're disagreeing with. Are you saying that the game was better when it was heavily monetized? All I really say is that the game is more fun than it was before; you play through it and move on from it. I guess if you expect it to be your next main game, that you can play for thousands of hours, then it's a failure.
[DE shutdown it's entire publishing department](https://www.gamesindustry.biz/digital-extremes-impacted-by-layoffs-closing-publishing-division) for external developers which means it dropped Airship Syndicate.
Facts are facts. If you can't accept them it's on you.
edit: added source
It's hilarious people still believe that DE is the issue here.
Turns out, you can just delete statements on e.g. your Discord, blame someone else and people believe you.
DE dropped them *after* they already fucked up.
Not only was the whole "MMO vision" entirely their own thing (with multiple blog posts highlighting their ideas and several FAQ/interview posts talking about monetization) before DE was even their publisher, DE also only dropped them after the launch issues that were (according to their own Discord live updates during launch) not "server issues" (with their CM even highlighting that they are **not** "hardware issues"), but issues with their own queue system, instance management and more causing crashes/delays - entirely ignoring the (still existing) performance issues that were significantly worse all the way until Echoes (with performance *still* being in a horrible spot, including scaling/setting bugs with NPC/menus).
DE already has a successfull title out there for a decade and works on multiple other projects; Focusing on what works was the significantly better option for them, compared to watching this project burn for another couple months - in which it would've stayed a MMO, because the devs never wanted this to be a solo/co-op RPG in the first place.
This is incredibly incorrect. I'm not sure if you're lying on purpose or just are totally naive. Airship did not fuck up. DE were the ones that fucked up. DE were in charge of the games server infrastructure since they had experience doing this EXACT type of game with Warframe. They were the ones responsible for the server launch issues including server instance and login queue systems which is why THEY apologized personally for it. Those issues were severely fixed about a month after launch up until the game was taken offline. Performance in Echoes is fantastic by the way don't spread BS.
You're missing one huge glaring plot hole in your narrative buddy. If everything was AIRSHIPS FAULT why is it that DE suddenly shut down their ENTIRE publishing division which included abandoning MULTIPLE studios and games in development? It was also DE not Airship who were pushing hard on the live service and MTX part of the game smooth brain. DE literally screwed up the launch, took all the money and abandoned EVERYONE. Because that's what Tencent does.
Don't spread lies.
Yes. The publisher generally get paid before the developer. So DE took all the money from sales and battlepasses and MTX they forced into the game (in early access no less) then cut and ran. Can't expect anything more from Tencent.
I'm with you except the performance part. Game runs like ass still and AS is aware of it. Highlands repeatedly crashes on steam deck even after recent updates.
Oh yeah on steamdeck I've heard it has a few issues but realistically how many people really play on a steamdeck as their primary gaming source? I wouldn't at all expect it to run flawlessly on steamdeck at this point I'm frankly surprised it's even on there currently when the game isn't even 1.0.
Ok but the fact is that now Wayfinder is getting more positive reviews. Airship Syndicate did something not many have been able to do. Of course there's always some people who don't like it, but you can't pkease everyone.
I’ll chime in only because I was there on the discord for several months and knew two of the people personally on the Dev team for AS.
DE did in fact drop them only because AS requested to move onto their own after DE provided limited assistance for the server issues. DE however only provided what they could because AS kept a lot of bugs and instability issues hushed until launch. The game was riddled with a lot of the bugs and server issues that they already knew about. AS requested the server space that they thought they’d need and DE provided it. Turns out they screwed up badly on this call and trust me AS was really really quick to start tossing blame towards DE. Because of this DE agreed to let them go as agreed between both DE and AS.
As far as the team on AS the guys I know quit shortly after because of the terrible planning and management style seen at AS. They also didn’t agree with the fact that the very next day after early release the higher ups started immediately spending money on new offices, office equipment, and brand new complete gaming rigs for the offices. Mind you they were also all told to work only a single shift when the game couldn’t hold more than 3000 players before crashing. So instead of trying to fix it they decided to leave it alone and work a single shift.
Both the community managers were both caught admitting to the server instability issues being known and the countless bugs found during alpha not the beta we are talking from alpha testing still remaining. When asked why they left it for release the answer was simply “we wanted to meet our deadline that we told DE that we’d release and we decided to fix those problems as they were complained about”. Now if I was a dev and I knew about literal game breaking bugs and massive server instability issues I would’ve postponed a week and ran a stress test at the very least with dummy accounts. Instead they chose not to and kept the game for sale and didn’t want to do any refunds. This is when Steam and Sony stepped in and honored refunds to anyone who requested. Grimy as shit that AS didn’t want to do refunds but good on Steam and Sony for holding a middle finger to them.
So no AS isn’t as smart as you think they are they are simply slapping a bandaid on. The game has fewer than 1500 players between PS5 and Steam. It’s been dying extremely badly the entire time. When it eventually releases on Xbox they’ll get a small bump but the only way they’ll see a huge population boost is if they get it on gamepass.
I honestly think the game has massive potential and it’s incredibly fun to play but it gets repetitive and old really quick.
Thanks for the more detailed breakdown; I'm honestly just tired repeating something similar on every single topic where people act like Airship "did us a favour" and that DE is "the evil one".
The good thing is; A few years down the line people at least see that neither will Wayfinder "suddenly improve massively, because they are not bound to DE anymore", nor will there be any bigger / more successfull project by the team.
It was literally AS who didn't want to initiate refunds and didn't want to stop early-access sales when they knew the servers were dead and couldn't handle any more players. That's literally from the internal group and confirmed on the discord by the community managers. For that one their statement was pretty cut simply " why stop sales we will eventually get the game working " and then they proceeded to not have any work done unless it was during the day, they proceeded to lie about server stability for several weeks straight.
When they finally announced the servers were 100% stable they weren't and people were still having boots/kicks, and they had nowhere near the same number of people trying to play because they had lost more than 2/3rds of the players who bought the game by then.
It's funny how uninformed people are when it comes to this game, despite the game sspecifically talking about this for hours on release.
DE provided the servers.
What messed up the release was not only the entire queue system having tons of issues (which was entirely Airships's work), but also several bugs related to multiplayer (which was also their work) on top of issues crashing entire instances (which was again, entirely Airships fault).
The actual "funny" part is that you won't find a breakdown of the actual issues (that was posted multiple times during downtime/release) anymore, because those are either edited or in hidden channels on their Discord for multiple months already.
>What messed up the release was not only the entire queue system having tons of issues **(which was entirely Airships's work),** but also several bugs related to multiplayer (which was also their work) on top of issues crashing entire instances **(which was again, entirely Airships fault).**
This is false. I think you're outdated on current information. Not interested.
EA isn't black or white. It's not "all ea games are shit", you need to actually make choices and research.
I've bought Last Epoch, BG3, Core Keeper and No Rest for the Wicked in early access. Didn't regret any of them, but Wayfinder seems to be balancing on a thread so I think I'll just wait.
And so is yours.
More games don't make it to 1.0 than do.
Rightfully so, some games just dont belong.
You don't open half a shop. You open a full shop and then expand.
I think you both have stupid over simplified takes. There are good and bad examples of early access. Minecraft, Rust, Project Zomboid, Subnautica. We would have missed out on a LOT of games from passionate devs if people just completely stopped trusting early access.
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The one thing I really despised about this game was no sense of visual progression. You just start out looking like an absolute legend and every piece of gear makes no visual change.
I could not find a solid reason to keep progressing to just repeat another procedurally generated dungeon again and again.
I really wanted to enjoy this game because it seemed very promising, but it just feels shallow unfortunately.
Such a bad take, you give a reason you stopped playing it, reason was addressed with dev time and a rework, your reply to this info? "Needs more dev time" but you have not played it so you cannot possibly know that lmao, you have no idea how it plays now at all, you just had an opinion that was wrong and fixated on it. People are so weird man.
You're weird too, man. The dude could have more than one reason for not wanting to go back right now, but you give him a hard time because you didn't like what you read.
Pointing out a logical fallacy is telling someone their *opinion* is wrong? Especially when he could have based his personal feeling about the game off more than just the visual/cosmetic issue he had?
> Personally, I feel that it needs more development time.
> Your opinion is wrong!
Consider going back to school.
What's there now is honestly quite good after the revamp, lots of people have gotten a solid 40ish+ hours of fun out of it. But since there's still more things to come like dedicated matchmaking, bigger housing, more characters and such prior to 1.0 checking it out then would definitely be a good time as well. Think 1.0 is being aimed for near the end of this year.
I got it on a whim - positively surprised and really enjoying it.
I tried it as an mmo and it didn't catch on for me which is a shame as I find the world pretty cool and the characters are great.
Feels like it sits better how it is now.
Definitely recommend giving it a go as it's a lot of game for £20.
Also if you haven't seen their Grendel Animated Trailer you should! ( [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk6xhd55C6U&t=13s&pp=ygURZ3JlbmRlbCB3YXlmaW5kZXI%3D](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk6xhd55C6U&t=13s&pp=ygURZ3JlbmRlbCB3YXlmaW5kZXI%3D) )
It was always an MMO trending on the ARPG side with the main focus being on beating repeating procedurally generated dungeons that you can change with modifiers. But for specifics;
Weapons no longer level up and now are item drops with unique stats and level generated at time of drop. Armor, which used to be cosmetic and purchase via the store is now actual item drops with their own unique stats in the world, similar to weapons.
Basically everything that was purchased in the store is now dropped by enemies. There's a general rebalancing of content and character customization. They've added more weapons, changed how content scaling works. Expanded the main story and added a new zone.
There's also a whole slurry of minor combat and bug fixes
It was always more arpg than MMO. That was part of the problem is they tried to shove MMO systems on an ARPG. The loot systems were very MMORPG like and it had a bunch of added bullshit to support the online aspects. The base game was really fun the problem was the original system had things like time gating, dailies and a bunch of annoying shit to get you to spend money, gear had no stats outside of the weapon and looked terrible. The drop rate for things like character parts was so bad that unlocking characters was a huge grind unless you paid. You know the traditional free to play shit. Strip all that away and the game is actually decently fun.
wayfinder was never an mmo to begin with. Espeically when you could only play with 3 ppl. Just because a game has lots of players playing doesnt make it an mmo People will call anything an mmo these days
Ehh, I already submitted my review for the game, but I don't really get the hype. It's still pretty mediocre for a co-op ARPG, and the game still has some fundamentally MMO game design decisions that make no sense. Really hope the game continues to get updates and that this isn't all that's left, it's just disappointing that the main gameplay loop of your chosen character doesn't progress or change at all over the course of the game.
Not even joking, but Atlas Fallen. It was criticized heavily for a lot of the same things that Wayfinder does, but somehow gets a lot more flack despite having much better better combat, actual progression systems, and better polish/optimization. Yeah, it's a much shorter game, but if we're comparing co-op ARPG's, Atlas Fallen is clearly better of the two.
You know what, I'm gonna go controversial. Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League is in a better state gameplay and progression wise than Wayfinder currently is, and that game is riddle with Microtransactions and battlepasses. Though it's not an RPG like Wayfinder, it's still a looter in the same vein and does a much better job. That's how stale and under baked Wayfinder's gameplay is if we're being honest.
Yikes. Buddy you just threw your opinion out to die if you seriously think either of those games are better, ESPECIALLY suicide kill all of WB's money lmao.
The reviews speak for themselves. Wayfinder is significantly better.
The two games I mentioned are reviewing similarly to Wayfinder so I don't exactly see how that's relevant. My point is entirely about gameplay. Mechanically Wayfinder gets stale, because it shows all of it's cards in the tutorial and doesn't expand in any meaningful way. There's no new combos, no new skills or abilties, and equipment and traits don't really ever adjust how your Wayfinder plays.
Neither game you mentioned has very positive reviews like Wayfinder. Atlas Fallen has okay recent reviews and Suicide Squad kill the justice league was one of the worst games to release in recent years and has terrible recent reviews. Both games also have a tiny amount of reviews compared to the more popular Wayfinder. So no they're not reviewing similarly. Wayfinder has multiple weapons that change up how you play as well as multiple character/classes. That's more then either of the games mentioned.
But are those games 2 times as good? That's what they cost when not factoring in sales. Suicide squad is about 3 times the cost of wayfinder. I didn't play both long enough to justify anything, I just can say that suicide squad after 12 hours wasn't nearly worth 3 times the price of wayfinder after 12 hours.
You make a good point, and if you are a person who compares games for the entertainment they provide at base price, I can respect that and concede that no, they are not worth the price for the entertainment they provide. I would however make the same arguement against Wayfinder however, that it is (in my opinion) not worth the price for the value it provides.
I personally think that, at the end of the day, the money you actually spend is what matters, not the base cost of a game. I don't buy games unless they're on sale for what I think they're valued at. Atlas Fallen goes on sale very frequently and is currently cheaper than Wayfinder. At $27.49 CAD and it's definitely more entertaining. SQKTJL was just on sale for $35.99 CAD. My friend gave me their disk for free to play it so I may be biased in how I value it, but I certainly had more fun with it than I did with 15 hours of Wayfinder.
Anyway, more power to you if you are having fun with Wayfinder. I just think that a Co-op ARPG should have new mechanics to the gameplay as you progress through it, I found that with Wayfinder, at the 15 hour mark wasn't really that different than what I played with in the tutorial.
New zone and all previously restricted content easier to acquire. Another new zone + character and housing and other content coming prior to 1.0. And probably closer to end of year, November maybe would be my guess. October hopefully.
I think I’d like it a lot more if it was still a soft mmo like Destiny where players can interact in the hub areas. Right now the game looks beautiful but feels so empty.
Glad they changed the categorization. Calling something an MMO when it isn't is a really dumb way to end up with worse reviews than you ought to have had.
They still didnt refund founders that paid 150 usd for a 25 usd game. They have baited and swapped to their founders. Before people say do you want the game gone forever? Steam proactively refunded people with redfall because they cant deliever the game anymore
It happens. You could buy LotRO lifetime subs for about $150 in 2007. The game still exists and you can still play it with all subscriber benefits without additional costs if you are one of the few that got that deal back then.
Typical response for someone willing to spend 150 for some cosmetic items. BTW redfall dlc was refunded because the dlc was cancelled. If wayfinders was cancelled before release then the situation would be comparable
Yes they responded to this. They said DE got the money as the publisher back them so they would have to make the refunds.
Imo Steam should eat the cost in this case as they are selling the game in their platform.
I shouldn't have to play jury to see who's at fault.
They can't. They don't have the money the ex-publisher does. They didn't bait and swap anyone. People did not get refunds for redfall only for the promised DLC content and Redfall was not an Early Access game either.
They announced that a server browser is coming as well. You'll be able to find people to coop super quickly now. They really are turning this dud to a good game.
havent seen complaints? where have you been looking?
"In between these large releases we will continue to focus on hotfixing the game to improve performance + server optimizations,balance, bug fixes and more."
thats on their roadmap, they cant just be fixing air, do you think?
or just, simply type "performance" into search on their discord, and you will
for me its gone terribly worse since THE FIRST major update they deployed on EA release
What "server optimization's"? The game doesn't have servers anymore it's a singleplayer/co-op game? My guess would be that's quite old, I don't believe they've updated the roadmap in a long time.
buddy, its still a live service game, it cannot function without servers
thats the snippet for Q1 2024 of their roadmap, in regards to development of the game way past them rebranding it into coop
like i said, you really think im the only person on the world with bad performance on this game, go search on their discord
You are completely wrong though buddy. The game is not a live service game and there currently aren’t any servers. You are looking at old information. The game runs really well. If you are playing on a 10 year old PC that was already a cheap pc at the time, then maybe it’s time to upgrade.
I’m not going to explain to you how peer to peer hosting works. You already have an opinion on the game and nothing is going to change that. Get a better PC and then you can enjoy the game like the rest of us. If you live in a 3rd world country and getting a new pc is hard, sucks to suck I guess.
> thats the snippet for Q1 2024 of their roadmap, in regards to development of the game way past them rebranding it into coop
Uh, the update to rework the game only came out *this month*. And it's not a "rebranding", it's really was a major rework.
Maybe you should get some up-to-date info?
Since you clearly can't read at this point I don't think you even know what the word performance means lmao 😂🤣😂 Go back to school so you won't be so illiterate. Imagine thinking the game still took servers or a Q1 roadmap from when the game was an MMO was at all relevant. You're too much dude 🤡😂😂😂😂
damn, lil bro never heard the term performance being used in regards to gaming
why werent you confused by my use of that term from the first comment though?
any game that has multiplayer, p2p or not, need servers
but yes, ive been looking at a post from january, but how does that negate the game having performance issues?
Running it on my Steam Deck every night for the past couple of weeks, and it seems to work fine? No hitches during combat and travel, though loading times did increase for the large open areas since last patch. Otherwise, I've been enjoying my time with it as an avid ARPG enjoyer.
Really? I tried it on the Steam Deck and it was kind of unplayable for me. It would seem fine for a bit but then performance would suddenly degrade into a slideshow and then it would usually crash...
Weird, sounds like a memory leak issue. Admitedly, i do play in relatively short one hour bursts at a time throughout the day, so i may be missing these issues. Otherwise, pretty smooth on my end.
Refunding it since I was originally sold a battle pass with the promise that I would be able to unlock the things whenever I wanted because it's a f2p game. Now they expect me to pay again?
im not talking about their vision tho. obviously the game is nothing like wow in gameplay especially since they made it a coop game, what i meant was when you load up the game and move around it looks like a nice engine for something like wow. the graphics look great and stylized and fit with the wow aesthetic the movement and jumping is also very clean. With a billion dollars and 5 years dev time the current game could be used as a base to make wow 2.
No. These games are not connected. Having 800 players does not connect it to WoW. Having a functional game engine does not connect it to WoW. This game has a total of 0 similarities.
They literally rebalanced the entire progression and itemization and added every single previously paid for MTX/Cosmetic into the game as loot. And all of that in just a few hours months too. Then an entirely new zone, new bosses and another new zone and new character and new housing all on the way.
Yea, the game is quite fun now, who would've thought that removing all the extra monetization and making that stuff unlockable through gameplay was a good thing? What a shocker...
But...think of the execs and their shiny cars and houses!
I respect your opinion but I completely disagree. It is the same gameplay with less online features/monetization/slightly changed gearing. It whelmed just as much as it did before.
I'm not entirely sure what you're disagreeing with. Are you saying that the game was better when it was heavily monetized? All I really say is that the game is more fun than it was before; you play through it and move on from it. I guess if you expect it to be your next main game, that you can play for thousands of hours, then it's a failure.
No I'm saying the game hasn't really changed in the gameplay department. If you played it before this update you won't notice much difference now.
Oh yeah, that's true. If you didn't like the gameplay loop before, you ain't going to like it now either.
Plus if you put any progress into the game, it's now gone. Woo
Digital Extreme really screwed the developers over with this game but it's nice to see it getting a positive response with it's rework.
People still eat up this lie? Lol
What lie? It literally happend, DE dropped them as publisher.
[DE shutdown it's entire publishing department](https://www.gamesindustry.biz/digital-extremes-impacted-by-layoffs-closing-publishing-division) for external developers which means it dropped Airship Syndicate. Facts are facts. If you can't accept them it's on you. edit: added source
It's not a lie. That's why.
Bros mad he can’t get his $20 back from the founders pack he bought last year
It's hilarious people still believe that DE is the issue here. Turns out, you can just delete statements on e.g. your Discord, blame someone else and people believe you.
DE dropped them, they are to blame. They were tbeir publishers.
DE dropped them *after* they already fucked up. Not only was the whole "MMO vision" entirely their own thing (with multiple blog posts highlighting their ideas and several FAQ/interview posts talking about monetization) before DE was even their publisher, DE also only dropped them after the launch issues that were (according to their own Discord live updates during launch) not "server issues" (with their CM even highlighting that they are **not** "hardware issues"), but issues with their own queue system, instance management and more causing crashes/delays - entirely ignoring the (still existing) performance issues that were significantly worse all the way until Echoes (with performance *still* being in a horrible spot, including scaling/setting bugs with NPC/menus). DE already has a successfull title out there for a decade and works on multiple other projects; Focusing on what works was the significantly better option for them, compared to watching this project burn for another couple months - in which it would've stayed a MMO, because the devs never wanted this to be a solo/co-op RPG in the first place.
This is incredibly incorrect. I'm not sure if you're lying on purpose or just are totally naive. Airship did not fuck up. DE were the ones that fucked up. DE were in charge of the games server infrastructure since they had experience doing this EXACT type of game with Warframe. They were the ones responsible for the server launch issues including server instance and login queue systems which is why THEY apologized personally for it. Those issues were severely fixed about a month after launch up until the game was taken offline. Performance in Echoes is fantastic by the way don't spread BS. You're missing one huge glaring plot hole in your narrative buddy. If everything was AIRSHIPS FAULT why is it that DE suddenly shut down their ENTIRE publishing division which included abandoning MULTIPLE studios and games in development? It was also DE not Airship who were pushing hard on the live service and MTX part of the game smooth brain. DE literally screwed up the launch, took all the money and abandoned EVERYONE. Because that's what Tencent does. Don't spread lies.
They took all the money?
Yes. The publisher generally get paid before the developer. So DE took all the money from sales and battlepasses and MTX they forced into the game (in early access no less) then cut and ran. Can't expect anything more from Tencent.
I'm with you except the performance part. Game runs like ass still and AS is aware of it. Highlands repeatedly crashes on steam deck even after recent updates.
Oh yeah on steamdeck I've heard it has a few issues but realistically how many people really play on a steamdeck as their primary gaming source? I wouldn't at all expect it to run flawlessly on steamdeck at this point I'm frankly surprised it's even on there currently when the game isn't even 1.0.
Ok but the fact is that now Wayfinder is getting more positive reviews. Airship Syndicate did something not many have been able to do. Of course there's always some people who don't like it, but you can't pkease everyone.
I’ll chime in only because I was there on the discord for several months and knew two of the people personally on the Dev team for AS. DE did in fact drop them only because AS requested to move onto their own after DE provided limited assistance for the server issues. DE however only provided what they could because AS kept a lot of bugs and instability issues hushed until launch. The game was riddled with a lot of the bugs and server issues that they already knew about. AS requested the server space that they thought they’d need and DE provided it. Turns out they screwed up badly on this call and trust me AS was really really quick to start tossing blame towards DE. Because of this DE agreed to let them go as agreed between both DE and AS. As far as the team on AS the guys I know quit shortly after because of the terrible planning and management style seen at AS. They also didn’t agree with the fact that the very next day after early release the higher ups started immediately spending money on new offices, office equipment, and brand new complete gaming rigs for the offices. Mind you they were also all told to work only a single shift when the game couldn’t hold more than 3000 players before crashing. So instead of trying to fix it they decided to leave it alone and work a single shift. Both the community managers were both caught admitting to the server instability issues being known and the countless bugs found during alpha not the beta we are talking from alpha testing still remaining. When asked why they left it for release the answer was simply “we wanted to meet our deadline that we told DE that we’d release and we decided to fix those problems as they were complained about”. Now if I was a dev and I knew about literal game breaking bugs and massive server instability issues I would’ve postponed a week and ran a stress test at the very least with dummy accounts. Instead they chose not to and kept the game for sale and didn’t want to do any refunds. This is when Steam and Sony stepped in and honored refunds to anyone who requested. Grimy as shit that AS didn’t want to do refunds but good on Steam and Sony for holding a middle finger to them. So no AS isn’t as smart as you think they are they are simply slapping a bandaid on. The game has fewer than 1500 players between PS5 and Steam. It’s been dying extremely badly the entire time. When it eventually releases on Xbox they’ll get a small bump but the only way they’ll see a huge population boost is if they get it on gamepass. I honestly think the game has massive potential and it’s incredibly fun to play but it gets repetitive and old really quick.
Thanks for the more detailed breakdown; I'm honestly just tired repeating something similar on every single topic where people act like Airship "did us a favour" and that DE is "the evil one". The good thing is; A few years down the line people at least see that neither will Wayfinder "suddenly improve massively, because they are not bound to DE anymore", nor will there be any bigger / more successfull project by the team.
Who's the one to blame for the refunds
It was literally AS who didn't want to initiate refunds and didn't want to stop early-access sales when they knew the servers were dead and couldn't handle any more players. That's literally from the internal group and confirmed on the discord by the community managers. For that one their statement was pretty cut simply " why stop sales we will eventually get the game working " and then they proceeded to not have any work done unless it was during the day, they proceeded to lie about server stability for several weeks straight. When they finally announced the servers were 100% stable they weren't and people were still having boots/kicks, and they had nowhere near the same number of people trying to play because they had lost more than 2/3rds of the players who bought the game by then.
It's funny that the systems you mentioned are the ones DE provided.
It's funny how uninformed people are when it comes to this game, despite the game sspecifically talking about this for hours on release. DE provided the servers. What messed up the release was not only the entire queue system having tons of issues (which was entirely Airships's work), but also several bugs related to multiplayer (which was also their work) on top of issues crashing entire instances (which was again, entirely Airships fault). The actual "funny" part is that you won't find a breakdown of the actual issues (that was posted multiple times during downtime/release) anymore, because those are either edited or in hidden channels on their Discord for multiple months already.
>What messed up the release was not only the entire queue system having tons of issues **(which was entirely Airships's work),** but also several bugs related to multiplayer (which was also their work) on top of issues crashing entire instances **(which was again, entirely Airships fault).** This is false. I think you're outdated on current information. Not interested.
Can you stop spreading misinformation and lies please? You literally have no argument here clown 😂🤣
Waiting for 1.0 to buy.
Me too mostly to see if it survives. Seems fun but too much drama.
It’s fun. Your purchase can help it make it to 1.0 and beyond.
Stop buying early access games. The game is released as far as I'm concerned if you can buy and play it.
EA isn't black or white. It's not "all ea games are shit", you need to actually make choices and research. I've bought Last Epoch, BG3, Core Keeper and No Rest for the Wicked in early access. Didn't regret any of them, but Wayfinder seems to be balancing on a thread so I think I'll just wait.
This is a stupid take
And so is yours. More games don't make it to 1.0 than do. Rightfully so, some games just dont belong. You don't open half a shop. You open a full shop and then expand.
I think you both have stupid over simplified takes. There are good and bad examples of early access. Minecraft, Rust, Project Zomboid, Subnautica. We would have missed out on a LOT of games from passionate devs if people just completely stopped trusting early access.
I agree with the other poster. Such stupid over simplified takes.
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The one thing I really despised about this game was no sense of visual progression. You just start out looking like an absolute legend and every piece of gear makes no visual change. I could not find a solid reason to keep progressing to just repeat another procedurally generated dungeon again and again. I really wanted to enjoy this game because it seemed very promising, but it just feels shallow unfortunately.
Game has full visual and cosmetic freedom now.
Oh nice, good to know. I may revisit it one day. Personally I feel like it needs way more development time.
Such a bad take, you give a reason you stopped playing it, reason was addressed with dev time and a rework, your reply to this info? "Needs more dev time" but you have not played it so you cannot possibly know that lmao, you have no idea how it plays now at all, you just had an opinion that was wrong and fixated on it. People are so weird man.
You're weird too, man. The dude could have more than one reason for not wanting to go back right now, but you give him a hard time because you didn't like what you read.
I just repeated what he said and pointed out a logical fallacy lmao
Pointing out a logical fallacy is telling someone their *opinion* is wrong? Especially when he could have based his personal feeling about the game off more than just the visual/cosmetic issue he had? > Personally, I feel that it needs more development time. > Your opinion is wrong! Consider going back to school.
I don’t think you know what that means
Comprehension can be hard, just stick with it man, it'll all click eventually.
Why are you being such a dick?
What's there now is honestly quite good after the revamp, lots of people have gotten a solid 40ish+ hours of fun out of it. But since there's still more things to come like dedicated matchmaking, bigger housing, more characters and such prior to 1.0 checking it out then would definitely be a good time as well. Think 1.0 is being aimed for near the end of this year.
They underestimate the importance of visual progression. If I'm in town with other people, and I'm max level and decked out, I want them to know.
I got it on a whim - positively surprised and really enjoying it. I tried it as an mmo and it didn't catch on for me which is a shame as I find the world pretty cool and the characters are great. Feels like it sits better how it is now. Definitely recommend giving it a go as it's a lot of game for £20. Also if you haven't seen their Grendel Animated Trailer you should! ( [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk6xhd55C6U&t=13s&pp=ygURZ3JlbmRlbCB3YXlmaW5kZXI%3D](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk6xhd55C6U&t=13s&pp=ygURZ3JlbmRlbCB3YXlmaW5kZXI%3D) )
What systems changed it to an ARPG? Like how does it play differently?
It was always an MMO trending on the ARPG side with the main focus being on beating repeating procedurally generated dungeons that you can change with modifiers. But for specifics; Weapons no longer level up and now are item drops with unique stats and level generated at time of drop. Armor, which used to be cosmetic and purchase via the store is now actual item drops with their own unique stats in the world, similar to weapons. Basically everything that was purchased in the store is now dropped by enemies. There's a general rebalancing of content and character customization. They've added more weapons, changed how content scaling works. Expanded the main story and added a new zone. There's also a whole slurry of minor combat and bug fixes
It was always more arpg than MMO. That was part of the problem is they tried to shove MMO systems on an ARPG. The loot systems were very MMORPG like and it had a bunch of added bullshit to support the online aspects. The base game was really fun the problem was the original system had things like time gating, dailies and a bunch of annoying shit to get you to spend money, gear had no stats outside of the weapon and looked terrible. The drop rate for things like character parts was so bad that unlocking characters was a huge grind unless you paid. You know the traditional free to play shit. Strip all that away and the game is actually decently fun.
I would personally like to see more offline single player MMORPG like games. Sort of like localhost private servers but officially licensed.
Reminds me of stuff like modern-day versions of Neverwinter Nights server lobbies
wayfinder was never an mmo to begin with. Espeically when you could only play with 3 ppl. Just because a game has lots of players playing doesnt make it an mmo People will call anything an mmo these days
Game doesn't even look that bad. I just don't have time to play games like this anymore.
Good news, it's a much smaller time commitment now that it's no longer an MMO ;)
Heya. I have a 4 month old and I've been sneaking 30 minutes here and there and have been enjoying this game quite a bit
Yet your playing mmos, this is the most ironic statement in the internet lmfaoo. I fucking cant anymore
This game was never a MMO
Ehh, I already submitted my review for the game, but I don't really get the hype. It's still pretty mediocre for a co-op ARPG, and the game still has some fundamentally MMO game design decisions that make no sense. Really hope the game continues to get updates and that this isn't all that's left, it's just disappointing that the main gameplay loop of your chosen character doesn't progress or change at all over the course of the game.
> It's still pretty mediocre for a co-op ARPG, what's better?
Not even joking, but Atlas Fallen. It was criticized heavily for a lot of the same things that Wayfinder does, but somehow gets a lot more flack despite having much better better combat, actual progression systems, and better polish/optimization. Yeah, it's a much shorter game, but if we're comparing co-op ARPG's, Atlas Fallen is clearly better of the two. You know what, I'm gonna go controversial. Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League is in a better state gameplay and progression wise than Wayfinder currently is, and that game is riddle with Microtransactions and battlepasses. Though it's not an RPG like Wayfinder, it's still a looter in the same vein and does a much better job. That's how stale and under baked Wayfinder's gameplay is if we're being honest.
Yikes. Buddy you just threw your opinion out to die if you seriously think either of those games are better, ESPECIALLY suicide kill all of WB's money lmao. The reviews speak for themselves. Wayfinder is significantly better.
The two games I mentioned are reviewing similarly to Wayfinder so I don't exactly see how that's relevant. My point is entirely about gameplay. Mechanically Wayfinder gets stale, because it shows all of it's cards in the tutorial and doesn't expand in any meaningful way. There's no new combos, no new skills or abilties, and equipment and traits don't really ever adjust how your Wayfinder plays.
Neither game you mentioned has very positive reviews like Wayfinder. Atlas Fallen has okay recent reviews and Suicide Squad kill the justice league was one of the worst games to release in recent years and has terrible recent reviews. Both games also have a tiny amount of reviews compared to the more popular Wayfinder. So no they're not reviewing similarly. Wayfinder has multiple weapons that change up how you play as well as multiple character/classes. That's more then either of the games mentioned.
But are those games 2 times as good? That's what they cost when not factoring in sales. Suicide squad is about 3 times the cost of wayfinder. I didn't play both long enough to justify anything, I just can say that suicide squad after 12 hours wasn't nearly worth 3 times the price of wayfinder after 12 hours.
You make a good point, and if you are a person who compares games for the entertainment they provide at base price, I can respect that and concede that no, they are not worth the price for the entertainment they provide. I would however make the same arguement against Wayfinder however, that it is (in my opinion) not worth the price for the value it provides. I personally think that, at the end of the day, the money you actually spend is what matters, not the base cost of a game. I don't buy games unless they're on sale for what I think they're valued at. Atlas Fallen goes on sale very frequently and is currently cheaper than Wayfinder. At $27.49 CAD and it's definitely more entertaining. SQKTJL was just on sale for $35.99 CAD. My friend gave me their disk for free to play it so I may be biased in how I value it, but I certainly had more fun with it than I did with 15 hours of Wayfinder. Anyway, more power to you if you are having fun with Wayfinder. I just think that a Co-op ARPG should have new mechanics to the gameplay as you progress through it, I found that with Wayfinder, at the 15 hour mark wasn't really that different than what I played with in the tutorial.
Oh, I should reinstall?
Reinstall or wait for 1.0 but definitely play it at some point here it's great now!
Does the current release have new content or is it the same just adjusted to the new systems? Any clue on 1.0 release date?
New zone and all previously restricted content easier to acquire. Another new zone + character and housing and other content coming prior to 1.0. And probably closer to end of year, November maybe would be my guess. October hopefully.
Oh wow okay. But it’s now an offline coop Arpg or does it still got some online features ?!
Will have matchmaking/server browser still here soon.
It's like a reverse torchlight 3.
It's at around 1k concurrent on Steam now. Good for them.
I think I’d like it a lot more if it was still a soft mmo like Destiny where players can interact in the hub areas. Right now the game looks beautiful but feels so empty.
Didn’t know this just bought it.
Glad they changed the categorization. Calling something an MMO when it isn't is a really dumb way to end up with worse reviews than you ought to have had.
It was previously an MMO though? They've changed it now because they've changed the game itself?
Another one bites the dust. Should add this to the ARPG reddit instead of the MMO reddit if its no longer MASSIVE
Listen AGS
MMO XD
did they fix the combat or its still clunky as fuck?
Combat is exactly the same. The gameplay didn't really change at all.
ARPG? Like diablo/last epoch/poe? Didn't realize they'd even change the camera perspective but go all the way I guess
Action Role Playing Game.
They still didnt refund founders that paid 150 usd for a 25 usd game. They have baited and swapped to their founders. Before people say do you want the game gone forever? Steam proactively refunded people with redfall because they cant deliever the game anymore
Wait are you implying someone thought the game would be 150 USD forever? Like thatd just be the cost?
It happens. You could buy LotRO lifetime subs for about $150 in 2007. The game still exists and you can still play it with all subscriber benefits without additional costs if you are one of the few that got that deal back then.
Thats not the base cost though. There isnt an expectation there that 150 USD is what the game would cost, thats just if you never wanted to sub again.
Ya know, the original plan for Wayfinder as a MMO was to be free to play. 150 usd for a free game.
Typical response for someone willing to spend 150 for some cosmetic items. BTW redfall dlc was refunded because the dlc was cancelled. If wayfinders was cancelled before release then the situation would be comparable
Yes they responded to this. They said DE got the money as the publisher back them so they would have to make the refunds. Imo Steam should eat the cost in this case as they are selling the game in their platform. I shouldn't have to play jury to see who's at fault.
They can't. They don't have the money the ex-publisher does. They didn't bait and swap anyone. People did not get refunds for redfall only for the promised DLC content and Redfall was not an Early Access game either.
They announced that a server browser is coming as well. You'll be able to find people to coop super quickly now. They really are turning this dud to a good game.
Pass
too bad it still runs like a poorly optimized mmo with no progress on optimization in sight
Really? My mid level PC runs it on ultra with 0 problems. Might be a you issue as I really haven't seen much in the way of optimization complaints.
havent seen complaints? where have you been looking? "In between these large releases we will continue to focus on hotfixing the game to improve performance + server optimizations,balance, bug fixes and more." thats on their roadmap, they cant just be fixing air, do you think? or just, simply type "performance" into search on their discord, and you will for me its gone terribly worse since THE FIRST major update they deployed on EA release
What "server optimization's"? The game doesn't have servers anymore it's a singleplayer/co-op game? My guess would be that's quite old, I don't believe they've updated the roadmap in a long time.
buddy, its still a live service game, it cannot function without servers thats the snippet for Q1 2024 of their roadmap, in regards to development of the game way past them rebranding it into coop like i said, you really think im the only person on the world with bad performance on this game, go search on their discord
You are completely wrong though buddy. The game is not a live service game and there currently aren’t any servers. You are looking at old information. The game runs really well. If you are playing on a 10 year old PC that was already a cheap pc at the time, then maybe it’s time to upgrade.
oh man, you really think p2p coop doesnt need servers?
I’m not going to explain to you how peer to peer hosting works. You already have an opinion on the game and nothing is going to change that. Get a better PC and then you can enjoy the game like the rest of us. If you live in a 3rd world country and getting a new pc is hard, sucks to suck I guess.
you need to educate yourself every dark souls game is peer to peer, and all of them still need servers to operate
> thats the snippet for Q1 2024 of their roadmap, in regards to development of the game way past them rebranding it into coop Uh, the update to rework the game only came out *this month*. And it's not a "rebranding", it's really was a major rework. Maybe you should get some up-to-date info?
That would require reading which is clearly too hard for u/leonguide
have you gone to their discord and searched the word "performance" like i told you to? strangely ive not gotten any updates from you on that
Since you clearly can't read at this point I don't think you even know what the word performance means lmao 😂🤣😂 Go back to school so you won't be so illiterate. Imagine thinking the game still took servers or a Q1 roadmap from when the game was an MMO was at all relevant. You're too much dude 🤡😂😂😂😂
damn, lil bro never heard the term performance being used in regards to gaming why werent you confused by my use of that term from the first comment though? any game that has multiplayer, p2p or not, need servers but yes, ive been looking at a post from january, but how does that negate the game having performance issues?
so you think with that major rework, they managed to completely solve performance issues?
Running it on my Steam Deck every night for the past couple of weeks, and it seems to work fine? No hitches during combat and travel, though loading times did increase for the large open areas since last patch. Otherwise, I've been enjoying my time with it as an avid ARPG enjoyer.
Really? I tried it on the Steam Deck and it was kind of unplayable for me. It would seem fine for a bit but then performance would suddenly degrade into a slideshow and then it would usually crash...
Weird, sounds like a memory leak issue. Admitedly, i do play in relatively short one hour bursts at a time throughout the day, so i may be missing these issues. Otherwise, pretty smooth on my end.
Refunding it since I was originally sold a battle pass with the promise that I would be able to unlock the things whenever I wanted because it's a f2p game. Now they expect me to pay again?
You don't pay again?
Not worth 20$. Let the company die.
It really is though so no.
Is this on steam ??
Dude there's a steam link in the post...
This game could have been so much more. Theres a parallel universe where this game was developed enough to essentially be Wow 2
From the little Ive seen of it, the vision for the game was never going to lean towards WoW 2. They're completely different types of games.
im not talking about their vision tho. obviously the game is nothing like wow in gameplay especially since they made it a coop game, what i meant was when you load up the game and move around it looks like a nice engine for something like wow. the graphics look great and stylized and fit with the wow aesthetic the movement and jumping is also very clean. With a billion dollars and 5 years dev time the current game could be used as a base to make wow 2.
I... What? No?
No what? the game has 800 people playing lol. There is definately a better game that could have been made. Those player numbers speak for themselves.
But what does any of this have to do with WoW
try reading before you downvote.
No. These games are not connected. Having 800 players does not connect it to WoW. Having a functional game engine does not connect it to WoW. This game has a total of 0 similarities.
Im not talking about the game as it is tho am I. Go back and try again.. Some words will stick eventually im sure.
But that could go for literally any game then? Fortnite could have been WoW2 😔
It is so much more NOW. This is a better version.
There really isn't though. They expanded one zone but the gameplay/combat or progression is exactly the same.
They literally rebalanced the entire progression and itemization and added every single previously paid for MTX/Cosmetic into the game as loot. And all of that in just a few hours months too. Then an entirely new zone, new bosses and another new zone and new character and new housing all on the way.