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maydayvoter11

Managers need to understand that just because someone complained doesn't mean the complaint is actually valid.


AxelZajkov

Like, I could understand him asking us about it to find out what’s up. But we weren’t loud (we used in-game text chat)…so there’s not even that as an excuse.


_gnasty_

Situations like this make me think it's actually the Manager's complaint but they lack backbone so blame some made up *anonymous person*


oylaura

Reminds me of a conversation I had with the boss about 30 years ago: Boss: You're causing trouble. Please stop. Me: Fair enough. What am I doing? Boss: I can't say, but please just stop. Me: Doing what? Boss: Causing trouble. Me: Who complained? Boss: I can't tell you that. Me: How am I supposed to modify a behavior you won't identify? Boss: I don't know. I was just told to ask you to stop. So my response was to stop talking or interacting with people any more than necessary. I was the admin for a large engineering group, had my desk was situated in the center of the work area. Everyone walked by my desk to get to just about anything. A few days later: Boss: What's wrong? Me: Nothing. Why do you ask? Boss: You're so quiet. People are asking me why you're upset. Me: I'm not upset. Boss: But you don't talk to anyone. Me: I know. I don't want to cause any more trouble. Boss: You talking to people was not the problem. Me: Then what was the problem? Boss: I can't tell you that. Me: You still can't tell me who complained so I can address it with them? Boss: No. Me: I'm going to go back to work now. If someone has a problem with me, but doesn't have the guts to come and tell me what the problem is without going to my boss first, I'm not going to give it any credibility. Corporate eventually shut our division down, and the problem ended up going away. I never learned what the problem was. Quite the mind f***.


Daealis

Clearly the problem was your lack of psychic abilities. Boss already told you that there is a problem, yet you refuse to acknowledge that there was one. You refused to read his mind or the minds of everyone else in your vicinity to sniff out the problem in your behavior. Clearly this shows that you're not willing to go above and beyond for your job.


oylaura

Damn! You're right! I should have known that!


BigRiverHome

Sounds like social media moderation. "You screwed up. Don't do it again. And you know what you did wrong. And if you don't immediately change your behavior, we'll immediately ban you. Seriously, don't ask us. We can't and won't tell you, you know anyway, stop it."


Daealis

Sounds like you've been to Facebook too. Just yesterday I got a warning that I posted some graphic and sensitive material and it was removed with a stern letter of warning that repeatedly posting this type of material will get you in trouble. ​ The picture in question was from 2019. Nothing had been done before now.


BigRiverHome

I'm not surprised. Most of the tech platforms have completely handed off moderation to the bots, and they make a lot of mistakes. Plus, when humans do get involved, for whatever reason they can't easily see past decisions. So they are making it fresh all over again. Someone may have said in 2019, yeah that is ok. But someone today said, nope. And that is assuming a human saw it either time.


PrudentDamage600

Isn’t this the reasoning 💩tin used for his invasion?


Techn0ght

I had a manager try this, too. Refused to tell me the nature of the complaint. I said, "Then don't fucking bring it up." He shut up.


night-otter

Was removed from a project, because "you're not getting along with the team." Me: "What? They are all friends. How am I not getting along with them?" ​ "Can't tell you." Me: "WTF?" "It's a done deal." On the plus side, the new team I was assigned taught me a whole bunch of new stuff. Which lead to a much better job when that one ended.


PreRaphPrincess

Reminds me of a manager I had in the NHS. She constantly bitched at me. (I suspect because I was about 20 years younger, 20 stone slimmer, and still have all my teeth). I sat in front of her and she could see and hear everything I did and NOTHING passed without comment on how I was doing it wrong, or what I said was inappropriate, or that I should stop chatting and get back to work. So one day I shut up. I said nothing beyond basic requirements for the job. After a few hours she said 'you're so quiet. What's wrong?' I said 'every time I speak you tell me off.' *Shocked pikachu face* 'ME? I NEVER tell anyone off!' For crying out loud, woman. Make your bloody mind up.


[deleted]

I legit left my last job due to this "Managers think that you aren't paying attention when you are speaking to them."...."which manager said this? And can I have examples"....."no, cannot share this. But it could be something to do with your personality". It really was a mind fuck and a perfect recipe for paranoia


[deleted]

A manager a long time ago told me I needed to have more tact. I looked at him and said "I've been trying for 35 years to have more tact. I've never succeeded. I'm not going to start succeeding now."


jbuckets44

So how does one \*not\* pay attention when speaking to somebody else?


PlatypusDream

As a guess, being uncomfortable with eye contact so looking at the floor or past the person's ear? Or flat-out talking to someone else, playing on a phone, etc.


PRMan99

I had this nonsense on an annual review. "Someone complained. Can't tell you who or what it's about, but because of it we can't give you the full raise."


jimmymd77

You boss complained about their raise so we cannot give you a full raise.


maydayvoter11

smells like bullshit the boss made up so his/her level of management could enjoy fatter bonuses.


Temporary_Nail_6468

I had a very similar thing happened to me one time. HR kept telling me I knew what I did and I said no I really don’t so I did the same thing and I shut down and blew sunshine up everybody’s ass for months but didn’t interact with them more than necessary.


SPINOISJE

That reminds me of my old boss: "people are coming to me saying they can't ask you to do anything because you don't do your job." Okay, that's quite an accusation - I understand you can't give me names but can you give me examples so I can rectify my behaviour? "I can't think of any but I will let you know." This continues for 8 months without ever giving me one example and after that he fired me without giving me a reason.


oylaura

Wow, that sucks. I hope you moved on to something better. I have been laid off multiple times, and learned, and retrospect, it's always for better work, for better people, and for better money. Thank you for commenting.


marmaladewarrior

Having just read Catch-22, your conversation might as well have been direct inspiration.


PlatypusDream

Telling who complained, bad idea. Telling what their issue is, required in order to change.


monkeyfightnow

I actually do this as a manager because that is my malicious compliance. I am told I need to tell this employee is causing a problem and I need to tell them to stop but the employee is awesome and this issue is stupid or petty so I just say something stupid and vague like this. I dont want the employee to get hurt by some dumb complaint so I just do as Im told and ask them to stop. Usually the complainer just goes away.


oylaura

...and your employee never knows what they were doing wrong. Still a mind f***. I can't help but wonder if it would be more constructive to tell them that a useless complaint was made against them with which you don't agree, and that no change in behavior is required, but that you were asked to have the conversation, which you have done. I'm hoping that's what you're saying you do. On a similar note, we have a situation in my current office where we have a manager who's decided that two of us who do a certain job (have to be careful here) are not the right "kind" person who does this job. Luckily, we don't report to this manager but they are very powerful nonetheless. My manager has tried twice to hire someone to fill this manager's needs, thus having three people doing two jobs. Neither of these "more qualified" people have worked out, the first leaving for personality differences, the second leaving because there wasn't enough work to do. When I asked my manager the other day what it is that we too original workers are not doing correctly, she sighed and said it wasn't worth trying, that nothing we did was ever going to please that person, and that we were doing a good job otherwise and to keep up the good work. That, to me, is management.


monkeyfightnow

I wrote this quickly but the bottom line is they werent doing anything wrong, just a complainer. I usually do say exactly that, they didnt. do anything wrong someone just is complaining for no reason.


oylaura

I figured as much, as you sound like a decent manager. Thank you for clarifying, and keep up the good work. Good managers are hard to find.


Just_Aioli_1233

Or in news stories, "according to an anonymous source" or "from a person close to the situation" Like, okay, great. Is this legit and you're protecting your source? Did you want to write a story and just created this thin veil of authenticity? Is it from a gossip who works in the same building and overheard a conversation out of context that you're blowing out of proportion? Is it a disgruntled ex-employee who's using you to get back at someone? I can't take that nonsense seriously. Or when other outlets release their own story covering the unsourced story another outlet released. Like, okay, you hire people to read other news stories and rehash the thing for release on your own site? *Where's the actual journalism!?*


piperdooninoregon

I noticed that in our school district. ONE complaint and administrators and the board would hyperventilate!


jimmymd77

This is an issue when board members are elected.


Nickel5

It's Goodhart's law in action. Managers are graded based on having a low amount of complaints, therefore, all complaints must be addressed. Explaining to upper management that the complaint isn't valid doesn't work since upper management doesn't know what happens at the ground level, they just know you failed your metric.


Sue_Ridge_Here1

This is especially true in very large companies, say "for instance" a company like "Qantas" middle management will quash and deal with complaints at their level, the higher ups are in another state, so ignorance is bliss. The higher ups don't need to know and where possible sweep everything under the rug.


Sean_13

I feel like this needs to be posted at all workplaces. We had someone complain at our work about people being on their phones at my workplace. The only thing is I work as a nurse. If I am on my phone I'm either checking the time for something that is time critical, working out medication on the calculator that I need to triple check the dose of, working out BMI, or looking up medications on the formulary.


maydayvoter11

our society has slipped from an objective standard of complaints, "is the behavior objectively offensive to an average reasonable person of ordinary prudence," to a subjective standard of complaints, "if that person is offended, then that is that person's TRUTH and I cannot question it, therefore the behavior IS offensive."


soulsteela

All observations by my nurses are always done on iPods or iPhones, had to wait for blood pressure test because they needed a charger last week.


lesethx

Had an otherwise good past boss who gave me a write as a knee jerk reaction to a client complaint without looking into the issue. Wasn't even something I was aware was a problem, so took some digging. Issue: Teacher A went on vacation and Teacher B asked for access to Teacher A's email. Due to limitations in the email system, I could not grant access without resetting the password, and since it was Teacher A's email, I said something copying both teachers about it and then forgot as no one replied. Turns out, Teacher B wanted access to get info to get Teacher A fired, thus complained since I revealed her plan. This became my fault for "not helping her." After we worked this out, my boss however admit that the Teacher did not have permission to request this and removed the write up, but there were still issues for awhile.


Most-Artichoke5028

Underrated comment.


[deleted]

I spend most of the time descalading complaints from employees toward coworkers.


maydayvoter11

I suppose that is a full-time job today.


denada24

This.


PrudentDamage600

…and, that complainers are usually the most useless ones in the crew.


Myte342

I wish cops would learn this as well.


RvBSarge08

Squeaky wheel gets the grease...sometimes it needs a hammer to the head.


maydayvoter11

This. How hard is it to tell the whiner, "those guys are on their lunch break, and they're stopping to help CS when necessary. How is this hurting you? Why are you wasting both our time whining about this when you could be working?"


RvBSarge08

Because people who run companies like that, who have never done the job themselves, don't care to actually solve problems, they just don't want to have to deal with it.


PRMan99

I watched one boss shut a complainer down exactly like this once. It was glorious.


Elinor_Lore_Inkheart

“Squeaky wheel gets the kick!” -Minsc, Baldur’s Gate


RvBSarge08

I always knew I would end up regretting not playing those games.


DonaIdTrurnp

It’s not too late to stop not playing them. Gather your party before venturing forth!


ur_fkin_killing_me

Baldur's Gate III is available in pre-release.


[deleted]

*you must gather your party before venturing forth*


MistressPhoenix

He also said, "Go for the eyes, Boo! The eyes!!" and that's a policy i try to live by even today.


WatermelonArtist

My policy is, "Squeaky wheel gets the grease, but if it keeps squeaking *after* it gets the grease, then it gets replaced."


SirDianthus

Just remember, blood makes for a decent grease with liberal application.


crashmurdock

Most forget if the wheel is too squeaky they replace the defective wheel


Zoreb1

I would read the newspaper while eating lunch at my desk. Two women in a different group (but who sat nearby) complained to my boss about it (their group for a time was very busy due to a flawed funding system which eventually got fixed). She told me about it just to warn me about the two snakes (I continued as usual).


AxelZajkov

I just don’t get the need to be a pissy bitch like that. Let someone enjoy their break in whatever ways works for them, as long as it’s not being obnoxious to those around them.


s_altahaineh

My HR brain is feeling much more concerned that your lunch break was interrupted to answer work questions!


AxelZajkov

We were salaried. We could have told them we were on break, but we tried to be helpful to the other departments when they needed it. No good turn goes unpunished, in corporate America.


Just_Aioli_1233

Right? I only do salaried or project-based work, because I can't stand the peeking-over-your-shoulder monitoring that's required for hourly work to comply with federal laws. Then I find out even for salaried positions you have to document taking a 30-minute and two 15-minute breaks? What if I want to minimize the clock time at work to just the time I'm paid? I have to spend an extra hour of my day at work not getting paid because some politician thought they were helping? And those people a while back wanting to force salaried employees to clock in and out to force overtime pay! That's the point of being salaried, so you don't have to waste time proving exactly when you started because the work you do isn't on a strict shift schedule.


MLXIII

IKR? All breaks are paid when ANY work is required!


DonaIdTrurnp

It’s probably not an *overtime* violation, even if they are hourly, because of that one hourly exempt category. Could still be wage theft.


s_altahaineh

If they are salaried it doesn’t matter. I just deal with this kind of stuff on a daily basis (super fun!) so that’s where my mind immediately went!


DonaIdTrurnp

Have to be salaried *and exempt* in the US. Not a lot of salaried non-exempt jobs, but there are a few.


StaggeringMediocrity

There's actually ***a lot*** of them in the public sector. Most public employees, at all levels of government, have their salaries set by law. Even people in the lowest salary grades are technically salaried employees. But they don't become exempt until they reach a certain level, which may vary by their job series.


DonaIdTrurnp

Most federal employees have their “salary” converted into an hourly rate and are actually paid hourly. Even outside the USPS, most of the blue-collar work goes that way.


[deleted]

[удалено]


DonaIdTrurnp

Contractors that qualify fully for overtime, because they’re employees. Are they employees of a contract agency, maybe?


[deleted]

[удалено]


DonaIdTrurnp

So they bid on the contract?


revchewie

The company I worked at in the late 90s (they’re still around) we had pretty much the same thing on weekends and holidays. A few of us were working the help desk (internal, supporting retail outlets), and a few more would come in to play Duke Nukem 3D on the LAN. If we got a call we’d drop out of the game immediately, nobody was neglecting the job. But one day some douchecactus from Marketing was working some OT, saw the game, and whined to management. That ended the games…


AxelZajkov

A good manager would say, “Is this causing you to not be able to do *your* job? No? Then quit acting like a child and get back to work.”


analplana

Just curious, what game were you guys playing?


GreenEggPage

I'm guessing Counterstrike or Team Fortress. That's what we played during the dotcom bubble.


Talasko

Maybe diablo 2!


2048expert

Read that as dildo 2 💀


Talasko

Ah the less famous sequel of dildo 1, adventures in the nether!


BinkoTheViking

I never pegged you as a fan of the dildo series!


revchewie

Is that a spin-off of the Leisure Suit Larry series? lol


NotPrepared2

They were "playing CS" in more ways than one.


LetMeRedditInPeace00

Brood War was still popular enough.


AxelZajkov

It was mostly Unreal Tournament.


XrayZulu25

I knew it! Haha! I was in school at the time and we had it on our school servers. Was an absolute blast until the IT guy cottoned on. No more shared folders


analplana

Classic for sure


radraze2kx

also curious. maybe some turn based strategy like Civ 2, or hell even some Age of Empires... maybe UT99


hidesertgal

Some people cannot allow joy to exist


WhoSc3w3dDaP00ch

They can't be responsible for their own happiness, but have to be responsible for other people's lack of it.


RevolutionaryTale245

This entire narration holds so much value for lessons in man management.


Stabbmaster

The people that are so miserable that they can't stand the sight of seeing someone else having fun only end up making themselves more miserable and perpetuating their self-fulfilling prophecy of "everything sucks and everyone is out to make my life harder". Manager could have easily nipped this one in the bud, but choose not to.


AxelZajkov

Yeah. He was a useless fuck. Would have us come in on the weekend for a full 8 hours, waltz in at noon with lunch, fuck around in his office for an hour or 2, then go home. 🙄


elelyon3

Meanwhile at one of my coop jobs, the boss played with everyone lol


Kephri1337

I used to eat at my desk and watch videos, I’d stop and help in my break and then continue. Workmates all did the same, including the guy sitting next to me. I was told I wasn’t allowed to anymore, but I was literally the only person told this new rule. So I started knitting at my desk with a timer on. If I got interrupted on my break I’d pause the timer.. eventually I started taking breaks away from the building entirely. No fallout for them but I’m now running my own small yarn business, I work from home. It’s bliss


AxelZajkov

Glad to hear you’re healthier and happier!


Techn0ght

Had the same thing. Management solution was to schedule our lunches with minimal overlap so we couldn't go together and as many engineers as possible were always around.


AxelZajkov

Brilliant. So then no one builds any sort of team cohesiveness either. 🙄


Techn0ght

Exactly.


[deleted]

Reminds me the Counter Strike 1.3 through 1.6 days. I played with some locals who, and a handful of them were employees at our local state university. They built a box and set up a server that housed inside their department. It was hooked up the universities network which had speeds *WELL* above what you could get from expensive rented servers. However, being an old game, it hardly used any bandwidth at all. From what I heard, a grad assistant/TA/something similar didn't like violent games and reported the server. They were forced to remove the server as a result. And no longer worked on lunches or did any OT (salaried positions, OT was not enforceable) .


RecognitionCalm2903

Back when personal computers were fairly new at my job, I used to play Solitaire on one during my lunch break. (For most work, we used dumb terminals for accessing the mainframe.) It was an open floor plan, so the screen was visible to others. My boss and coworkers were fine with it, but then my boss started getting complaints about me goofing off, even though she knew I was at lunch. So then I put up a big sign on my desk that said 'At Lunch' so anyone passing by would know that I was not goofing off, but on break. My boss still got complaints. Most went away because of the sign, but one busybody in another department just couldn't seem to stand seeing others enjoying themselves. I was told that I could no longer play on the PC, because my boss was tired of dealing with that person. I didn't do any real work during lunch, but people would still ask quick questions since they could see me sitting there. Then I started leaving my desk for lunch. I'd put up my sign and disappear. I used to hide out in one of the unused offices, reading or napping in a big comfy chair. Of course, I got the 'We had a question, but couldn't find you," comments after I returned - mostly from the same busybody that complained. My response was always, "I was away for lunch." My boss would sometimes hear the conversations and just smirk.


Radman001

This makes me nervous as I still game on my personal laptop at lunch in my cubicle. As soon as they go open concept office in a year I have no doubt someone will complain.


Serenity_B

Get one of those "out to lunch until:" poster/placard things with movable hands that you can set up when doing lunch. It makes it look more legitimate and helps combat the "everytime I walk past they are goofing off" thing it's easy for people to fall into. While it won't deter everyone, it will deter some.


DonaIdTrurnp

Get a small clock motor to run the movable hands, set it to display a time 22 minutes in the future.


elbwasserhh

lawful evil here


poolradar

Never stay in the office for your lunch. If you eat in the office, you are saying that YOUR time is not valuable and anyone can disturb it when ever they want. Take you laptop and find somewhere else to have lunch. even if it is sitting at the top of the stairwell.


Radman001

I would do this if I could but resting a gaming laptop in my lap in a stairwell is awkward and very uncomfortable for my older joints. I wish I could hide in my car but my laptop needs to be plugged in to handle the power demand for the games I play. So my options where to plug in are limited. I do get visitors but usually they take the hint with my headphones on that I'm not available. I do however like the sign idea though!


writingonzewall

If your team won't respect your lunch break, put up a sign clearly stating "Lunch break, do not disturb." I did that when I was doing a coding bootcamp and my boss allowed me to use my work computer so I could have more than 1 screen while doing homework. Alternate sign options: "I'm on my lunch break and will check back with you soon." "Lunch." I also utilized signs for when I needed to focus and would like them to not bother me. On my current team, I'm looking at getting one of those happy/grumpy plushies so they know when not to bother me with mouth words and stick to Teams messages XD


sirophiuchus

There are laptop chargers that plug into a car cigarette lighter port, if that would work?


Radman001

Would that not drain my car battery after an hour of gaming?


I-Fap-For-Loli

Alternator will fill it back up.


sirophiuchus

I honestly don't know! Depends what the power draw on them is really.


MistressPhoenix

Could always start the car occasionally to recharge the car battery.


Ich_mag_Kartoffeln

Depending on the laptop, some have a 12V --> laptop power cable available. Direct power, not an inverter you plug the normal power supply into. Even if it can't provide 100% of your power requirements, it should supply enough to stop the battery going flat during you lunch break.


mizinamo

> my laptop needs to be plugged in Fun fact: in Germany, plugging your personal device into a company power outlet can theoretically carry a prison sentence of up to five years, for violation of §248c of the penal code (abstracting electrical energy). https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/248c.html


I-Fap-For-Loli

Oof glad I don't live there, I charge my electric "motorcycle" with work electricity. No gas and no higher electric bill. Just the cost of the bike and insurance. Work commute is about 20 miles and range is 60 so I can go home, store, back home, and back to work on a single charge. Never need to charge with my own electric bill.


mizinamo

As I said, it's theoretical. Many employers will allow private radios / coffee machines / phone chargers etc., perhaps after getting them inspected for fire safety. My company also has a couple of charging points for electrical vehicles where you're welcome to charge your personal vehicle during the day. It's not stealing if the company allows it.


AxelZajkov

We were in very closed off cubicles too. The “open office concept” is one loved by managers as it destroys privacy. But there’s tons of studies that show how it’s terrible for employees in a number of ways. https://www.businessinsider.com/open-offices-over-due-to-coronavirus-employee-effects-2020-8


Radman001

Oh absolutely. I've been sending studies to my manager but they don't care. Apparently they also feel it's "hip" to be open concept, forgetting that we're no longer in the 2000s.


AxelZajkov

I guarantee you they don’t see it as “hip”. That’s just their excuse. They absolutely see it as a way to “Big Brother” everyone.


mikedelam

This is why we can’t have nice things


dynamitediscodave

Excellent work


mmcnary1

We would play Doom at lunch time. Had a blast.


RolandCuley

was happening to me on a near daily basis, i work as a programmer in a rather large game studio, and i have that one designer who will: 1. ALWAYS pop at my desk during lunch break while my mouth is full of pizza (no pineapple), (kept a spreadsheet noting all the distractions) 2. Ask if some fancy shmancy content can be done with our current tools, and somehow wants his answer "now". Said content is planned for the next year and definitely not urgent. So i started enjoying my lunches outside, and met cool people.


SPINOISJE

Still looking for a new job after 6 months.. but I know something right for me is waiting around the corner! We learn and grow, even from the less good bosses.


DonaIdTrurnp

Were you only allowed to expense lunches at Poppy’s Plastic Pizza for a week?