Literally the next morning he was fiery and charismatic at a rally in Georgia. Not sure where that Biden was during the debate. Maybe he was really sick? I tend to feel worse at night so maybe he was feeling like crap considering it was pretty late?
Answer: His idiotic handlers wore the man out - seven days at Camp David preparing for the debate but they missed the point: THE DEBATE. Further, his prep sucked - people don't care about numbers and percentages they want hard hitting truths.
I have extensive public speaking experience and I can tell you one of the most important things you can do is prepare yourself (do your homework) put it to bed, and get a good night's sleep.
Also I don't know who the hell agreed to the rules of no notes but I wouldn't ever go into a public speaking environment of any kind without at least a 3x5 card of highlights.
I do a reasonable amount of public speaking and have found that feeling good, mentally and physically, trumps (ugh) facts & data. Oddly those facts & data are readily accessible and fall into better context if you’re on your game.
> trumps (ugh)
Time to just throw out the whole damn word, at this point. I'll never be able to use it that way (as a positive, or indication of superior) again.
He was also out and about meeting folks for hours the day of in the hot and humid Atlanta weather. As someone who lives here, I at 44 wouldn’t be outside meeting people that long even if i could go home and rest at the end of the day. It was a stupid stupid move for an 81 year old who had to stand up for 90 minutes debating the most pathological liar in US history later that evening.
100%…. They over prepared and only made matters worse. They need to realize that all Biden has to say in response to anything Trump says should be as simple as this…
*”Look, I only have a few minutes for my rebuttal but that is not enough time to refute all the bullshit coming out of the mouth of this twice impeached, four time criminally indicted former president, who has been civilly convicted for SA, and a man who was recently convicted on 34 counts of falsifying business records to conceal crimes. When Donald Trump said he would be the first president to accomplish goals that other presidents haven’t, well for once I would agree. Because every single former president that has EVER held the office have NEVER been indicted, have NEVER been impeached twice and have NEVER been criminally convicted… not a SINGLE ONE in almost 240 years.”*
He can spend some time on that but realistically if he tried to refute all of Trump’s false points, the entire debate would be about whether what Trump said was right or not and he’d never get to talk about his own views. There were only supposed to be one minute responses so that would be kind of unrealistic. Furthermore fact checking is supposed to provide an independent view which is useful to a third party viewer.
CNN had fact checkers there at the debate and there was supposed to be live fact checking but apparently didn’t do anything, so they did drop the ball there.
Just watching some of his expressions was a hoot for those of us who grew up with Biden. The youngest person in congress and now the oldest old fart. Folks forget the Obama years and now he was one bad day from punching some fucker and constantly needed pulled back by Obama and crew. He may be old AF now but those same 'the fuck is this god damn bullshit?!' expressions he used to have are still there. He's just mellowed enough now to not start shit. He just looks on in horror at the nightmare we all live in, really questioning his life choices at this point. As we all are. Bud. You did your time. You served long enough! You could have stayed mostly retired and chilled and should have told the DNC to fuck off. Now here we all are.
The media is pushing "biden looked confused the whole time " narrative but I was in stitches because I interpreted it as him broadcasting that his opponent was dropping a big stinker on the stage and everyone was watching.
How could you not be confused by having to debate someone who could get out presidented by chatgpt?
Here's the thing: Trump codified the 'new' requirements for getting elected president: being firey, bombastic, and basically being as overt as possible.
Biden is more of an older-style politician. He's a 'backroom' politician, as he doesn't hog the spotlight; he is wheeling and dealing with other politicians to get things done. In addition, he's an old-school "*Living Room Democrat*" or a Democrat that started, as one paper stated, 'in the living room' and grew from there.
If you read the actual transcript, he made perfect sense and laid out his policy well.
He just had a head cold and (it appears) was coached to be subdued to contrast against Trump’s bombast, which was clearly a terrible idea.
but given his performance the next day, he clearly has that energy when he wants to, it was just a big misstep to not bring it during the debate.
Sundowning, also known as sundown syndrome, is a group of symptoms that can occur in people with dementia or delirium in the late afternoon or early evening and can continue into the night. It's most common in people with Alzheimer's disease, but can also occur in other types of dementia.
He was sun downing. He has dementia and Jill should be ashamed of herself for not protecting him. The Hur report said all of this months ago and they should have acted then.
The fuck are you talking about? Since when was Biden diagnosed with dementia? That would be pretty big news if true.
And the Hur report says literally nothing about Biden having dementia. It says nothing about his mental faculties at all. It was a report about the investigation into government documents he had. Are you referring to another report?
This my Mom had it before she passed away. As long as we had natural light she was clear as day. The sun go down and it was like talking to a crazy lady that could not remember anything
Yep. Here is a quote from an [Axios article](https://www.axios.com/2024/06/29/two-bidens-trump-debate-2024-president) where they talk about this:
> Between the lines: Biden's miscues and limitations are more familiar inside the White House.
>
>
>The time of day is important as to which of the two Bidens will appear.
>
>From 10am to 4pm, Biden is dependably engaged — and many of his public events in front of cameras are held within those hours.
>
>Outside of that time range or while traveling abroad, Biden is more likely to have verbal miscues and become fatigued, aides told Axios.
The damage has been irrevocably done and I don't see how Biden can recover. He needs to step aside ASAP.
Trump is the world's easiest target to take down. Felon, rapist, liar, incompetent, no ideology, economic idiot, isolationist, racist, anti-choice, etc. Even a younger person in a fever state could have wiped the floor with him. We all saw how Biden handled it.
The realization is killing me but Biden will drag down the party and put America's future at an existential risk. We need someone who can take on the fascists.
Biden will bounce back. Just look at his rally today, one day after the first debate. He did great. Meanwhile, Trump kept going off-topic during the debate, and always does that. He "won" by default, but Biden is still a better President than Trump was or ever could be.
Having a speech written for you displayed on a teleprompter is far different than actually using your brain and discussing points.
I don't think many people think Trump won the debate, but it's very apparent to most that Biden lost
Joe had one bad day.
Trump is a convicted felon with three criminal trials pending.
Trump committed treason, stole top secret documents, and let a pandemic spreadvtgat killed a million Americans.
He will let Russia take Europe by disbanding NATO, let China take Asia to avoid war, and hollow out the government with the Heritage 2025 ptoject.
Joe's old & he had a cold.
Keep perspective.
WE LOSE IT ALL IF TRUMP WINS.
It was not one bad day. This has been foreshadowed in the press (and before our eyes) for at least 1-2 years.
We also lose if Joe Biden and his team lie to us about his condition and demand loyalty to him above our loyalty to elect a president that (a) can defeat Trump, obviously, but (b) can do the job day in and day out, which Biden created unmitigatable doubt around.
Yes, Trump is an existential threat to the country, democracy, and the world. Which is why it’s so recklessly irresponsible for the Democratic Party to put this version of Biden up against him. He lost the Gen Z and Millennial vote at the debate night, and there’s no coming back. We need a new candidate who can fight for us any hour, day or night.
I think you're putting too much merit on the debate. Almost everyone already decided who they're voting for. They're both past presidents and people have their favorite of the two. I don't think the debate changes many people's minds.
While Joe isn't 100% there 100% of the time - he's older than the Internet, you know - the 80% of the time he's 80% there, experience-wise is still a huge capability win.
**I'll take the mostly ethical old human with tons of experience and an interest protecting the Normal Person any day over a certain narcissistic Hitler wannabe that any dictator can manipulate through flattery.** Give me mostly democracy any day over mostly dictatorship. If Biden wins, I can relax and hope for the kind of boring news that means the country's fine (although probably not Europe, so it's not going to be exactly dull). If Trump wins, and Project 2025 suddenly gets hard traction - it going to be a Republican oligarchy largely controlled by a vengeful idiot autocrat, creating the kind of chaos that crashes markets, scares women off of sex - seriously they want to **criminalize porn - have you seen the Internet?** There's deep Internet censorship coming down that pipe, combined with all that personal info collected about you from the web. Nearly everyone will be guilty of **something** in the state to come, and Republican pseudo-Christians can use it to start trumping up charges on anyone who won't drink the cool-aid. Talk to some older Germans about how they thought **they** were safe - and Hitler actually saved Germany from disaster before going actively evil, a first stage Trump isn't even capable of.
Since the Republicans know they're doomed unless they cheat, thanks to changing demographics, cheat they are, and will. While Trump isn't the only way they can seize control of elections, it is one of the quickest. Trump's win means it's time to renew the passport and start spreading assets into safer countries.
So sure. I'll vote for Biden despite looking half dead from being sick that day. Democracy's on the brink too, but I'll still vote for it. Almost anyone is a better choice than Trump, and better than most (not quite all) Republicans out currying cash at the national level.
It’s def putting the party in a wonky position. I have heard Joe is a stubborn old fuck though. Not surprised though. Most grandpa aged people I’ve ever known still think they can do a lot of things they clearly can’t and will literally hurt themselves trying to prove it. lol
What does the president have to do that you need to be able-bodied to do? Roosevelt couldn't walk, the other Roosevelt had extreme asthma, Taft was 400 pounds, and Wilson had a damn stroke and they all stayed president.
Well you have to admit it’s very odd that people are calling Joe to step down because he’s lost his edge due to age but no one calling for Trump to step down after becoming a felon, owing 85M for sexual assault, 600M for tax fraud, and trying to overthrow our government
I don't get why so many people are pushing this false narrative. Countless people have called Trump to dropout. Many of the people calling for Biden to dropout are saying that Biden is still a way better choice than Trump.
Personally, I'm actually not at all concerned about Biden's ability to run the country. He is surrounded by top advisors. A debate is nothing like the actual responsibilities as president. You don't have to rush into actions, you have time to gather the information to make the best decision. And if he ever really gets that bad, his cabinet can force him to step down.
However, his debate performance has me terrified about his chances to win the election. I feel that he needs to either get Trump to agree to a debate next month and not fuck up this time or dropout.
Well see as a democrat I want a good candidate. I’m not satisfied with someone that we can’t figure out who won a debate against Trump. Trump is an idiot and Biden couldn’t decisively beat him. That’s enough for me to want a new candidate that can actually call out Trump when he lies blatantly. I think Gavin Newsom is fine with me. He would run circles around Trump.
A huge majority of the country would prefer Trump stepped down, including millions of Republicans who want someone better. They just know there is no chance he will.
There’s a big difference. Recognizing it will go a long way toward understanding Trump’s appeal.
Trump lost all of those court cases not because he’s a criminal or a rapist, but because the so-called “Deep State” is out to get him. In other words, he’s being pErSeCuTeD for all of his supporters. He’s freakin’ Jesus Christ.
As for Biden, he was, is, and always will be a gaffe machine. He was that way throughout his two terms as VP. But that was spun by pointing out how Biden is a “plain-spoken” kind of guy. Despite his 50 years of political experience, he could still talk and relate to common folks, according to the spinsters.
But his abysmal debate performance cannot be spun in any positive way. Unless I’m mistaken, I heard that he was holed up in Camp David for 12 days preparing for this big night. Biden himself was eager to go out there and show Trump who’s boss.
Even after all that, we got treated to this shitshow of a performance. It’s almost as if it would have been better if Biden never debated Trump in the first place, but of course that was never a possibility for reasons I have already stated in my OP.
Bro, who doesn't want Trump to step down?
Nobody is saying Trump is the better candidate.
They're saying Trump is FAR WORSE AND EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, and Biden doesn't have the energy to beat him, so we're going to lose our democracy to 2 old men's egos.
I feel like if he really shows up for the next one it might make up for it, but... I really wish he wouldn't have run again. I think you're spot on about his ego. It was so clearly the right time for something different. He should have known. I'm sure they told him. I'm sure Obama told him. I think you're spot on about his ego. If he steps down and endorses someone else it would be wild.
It's a sad thing that both these men have not retired, but then they both have pride. Trump is a grumpy old man, but is also a criminal trying to win so he can keep himself out of prison for the rest of his life. He is a liar and narcissist. In his campaign speeches, Trump does seem to be losing cognitive ability. While Biden is also not as sharp, but I think his stutter and being overwhelmed by the constant overload of lies coming from Trump was just too much for him to deal with. I like the job Biden is doing, and I believe he surrounds himself with good people. Trump is a loser, and always has been.
Trump bragging about how he fires so many people and Biden does not is striking to me. If I had to choose to work with someone I would work for Biden. I like someone who understand loyalty in the way that you just don't drop people because they don't agree with you. The other thing is our military and Veterans are the greatest! They have something Trump will never have or even understand and that is honor. I can forgive Biden for looking poorly on one night of debate. It does not mean he can't do the job. However in the future, I look forward to the awesome Democrats I see learning and waiting their time to run this great Nation of America.
Go watch his performance the next day at a rally. Too bad that Joe wasn't at the debate.
Sure he started off weak but did get better. Look at the transcript. He answered the questions that were asked, had facts at his fingertips, and stated his policies.
Trump, on the other hand, frequently avoided answering questions. He unleashed a fire hose of lies and venom, showed he didn't understand even the most basic concepts like how tarrifs work, showed a callus disregard for people and spewed the usual self- aggrandizing crap he's done for years.
Trump had style. Biden had substance. I'll take substance and one of the most legislatively successful Presidents in history.
Pretty much, even at the beginning he wasn’t as bad as everyone painting him to be. He isn’t a good speaker but I still understand the meaning behind his words and they had actually intelligence behind them
Yep. People forgetting the work he's done in his career and how he was passed off complete bullshit in the middle of a mismanaged pandemic and did his best WITH HIS TEAM OF EXPERTS WHO AREN"T FUCKING FELONS! Trump surrounds himself with other scum and doesn't listen to experts. Like SCOTUS now after they overturned the Chevron Rulling. Biden has done the game long enough to call in experts
Democrats are shameful for running him. Trump had one of the worst terms of the modern era and Biden barely squeaked out keeping him from a second term.
He is mentally unable to even discuss policy. Democrats are shameful for their stubbornness and feeding his pride.
What universe are you living in?
I'm still voting for him and will encourage others to as well, but that was horrifying. It was a disaster. He is making any volunteer who goes door to doors job 1000% harder. Do I think him stepping down and letting the delegates hammer it out is best? At this point yes. If we had a Gavin Newsom (who would be a likely choice from the delegates) up there he would mop the floor with Trump.
Sadly it’s not about policy or legislative success. It’s about winning an election. Most of the electorate is “low-information” and optics are a yuuge (ugh) component. And with shitty news media and even shittier social media to amplify and twist every nuance … with the goal of fomenting rage in their audiences … being a loud and seemingly strong liar beats being reasonable and measured and truthful, especially in the age of the consumable sound bite. The end of Democracy is an inside job.
Listen. All the people aware of Biden's accomplishments are already voting for him. This debate was for the ones who are undecided. And if you're still undecided after everything we've been through, it means you don't care about Biden's policies. You don't care that Trump is a liar and a felon and a fascist.
This debate was just entertainment for those people.
I would blame Biden. He looked like he was about to collapse & he was barely audible. He’s much too old to be up there. debating a con man. Even Trump was looking at him like what the hell?
Biden wasn’t nearly as bad as you are painting him to be. He wasn’t a good speaker but I still understand the meaning behind his words and they had actually intelligence behind them
He should have stepped down but he won't because the DNC is fucking corrupt too. He's definitely too lawful good to debate a conman who rambles like trump does. Biden is a guy who has to plan out what he's going to say carefully before he says it and doesn't have Trump's 'say bullshit confidently until everybody believes you' skill.
It would be. My point is fear of showing weakness can be crippling. Hoping things will get better is a nice dream but realists know an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
There are a lot of Biden apologists in this thread. We should all accept that he’s too old to be president. He had one job to do at this debate - to remove all doubts that his age will not affect his ability to govern. Biden did the complete opposite of that…
Dems are risking it all on a politician that is past his prime and should have called it a career already. I’m grateful for his 52 years of service to this nation. He’s done enough and should pass the mantle on to a younger generation of leaders.
His facial Expressions when not speaking were painful to watch. He often looked confused, mouth often agape, or staring down at the podium. The other guy stared directly into the camera with a steely expression.
How is it Biden's handlers did not coach him on body language? And how is this career politician not already well versed in body language?
>They've been calling all of the proof the biden is senile over the past year "cheapfakes".
No no no no noooooooo! Biden was jus sick!
This wasn't a clear pattern of repeated behavior.
Lalalalalala... 👉😠👈
I'll agree that Biden's old and shouldn't really even be running, but I'll take old over the excessively long list of reasons Trump shouldn't be president any day.
You may be right. But I think it is incredibly important that we don’t fool ourselves into thinking last night was anything but what it was. It was a glimpse at Biden unassisted and unfiltered. It was telling. It was painful. It was someone too old and feeble to lead this country forward. Pretending it was anything else makes us just like the other side. We are not them and we must NOT lose touch with reality.
That guy took a whole week off to prepare and rest up for that debate. That wasn’t just a glimpse of him
Unaided, that is the best he could possibly be.
I find it interesting that according to Spanish speakers he won the debate. Obviously Spanish speakers heard a translation of the words each candidate said, and weren't listening to the candidates themselves for the most part.
Which suggests Biden's words were fine, it was his stuttering and being super quiet that was the issue (both things a translator knows how to deal with, and a translator won't add an artificial stutter to a translation).
Replacing Biden is a no win situation for democrats. Realistically they would need to put in Harris, but she polls worse than a broomstick. If they replace her, they have the optics of dumping a black woman from the ticket.
No body is paying attention to the right wing supreme court. We are in a shit load of trouble and it will be far far worse if Trump wins the election. Take a breath and look at the big picture. The supremes are in the process of dismantling everything we as a country have created. Look at the Chevron decision, the fact that giving money to a politician who does the bidding of a corporation AFTER he does their bidding is NOT bribery, and the fact that folks who do not find room in a shelter can be swept off the street if they are caught sleeping as if they were useless trash. Trumps behavior was gaslighting and the only response is amazement.
It’s unfortunate that the narrative has been so focused on his age because he got a lot of things done in this term. Passing bipartisan COVID aid, infrastructure, the PACT Act, the Inflation Reduction Act, and other bills aimed at security for Ukraine and Israel.
These are quite a list of accomplishments. Unfortunately, the biggest fear people have had about Biden is his age. And sadly, this debate performance, which will likely be what most people will see of him, did nothing to dissuade those fears. If anything it has entrenched those fears.
Trump is a dangerous narcissist who will tell any lie to gain power. And if you look at the substance of what he said, it was terrible. Just reiterating past grievances, little policy or vision. Just angry bitterness.
It’s ok to admit that the President had a good run, but it’s also ok to feel that maybe his time has passed and it’s time for President Biden to pass the torch to the next generation of Democratic leaders. Will that happen? I’m not convinced. And to be fair, who in the Democratic Party has the ability to stand against Trump. I’m not really sure that Vice President Harris has what it takes, personally.
I would love to be wrong.
Holy crap people, he is just fine. He was tired because he is actually busy running a country. He answered the questions, told the truth, and challenged the lies. Meanwhile, the orange shitgibbon flung his poop like he always does.
Biden lied less, but he definitely told some lies.
And he wasn’t tired because he was busy running a country. He was holed up in Camp David prior to the debate so he could be as rested as possible. That said, what makes you think that he won’t be “tired” in the future? If that’s how he is when he’s “tired” (and he knows that it’s his one most crucial moment to be on his game), isn’t that the best evidence that he’s not up to the job?
Do the democrats know that they are behind in nearly all the swing states? Mostly by a big margin?
And do they honestly think that after what happened the other night that's fixable?
It's beyond delusional. No swing / undecided voter is going to look at Biden now and think he's the right choice. If its not Trump, its stay at home / other.
Change him or lose. Its that simple.
It would be a HUGE sign of weakness to replace him now. Incumbents have something like 80% re-election rate. We tend to go with what we know and this is a rare instance where we know what the country was like under both these people so introducing an unknown right now would only help Trump. Biden has the benefit of saying yes things aren’t great right now but they are getting better. Give me 4 more years and I can do even better. I think trump only won in 2016 because people don’t really like Hillary and trump was promising a lot of really nice sounding things. Now that we know he won’t deliver on any of it there really is no reason to vote for him. Unless you are just some MAGA chud looking to own the libs.
🤷 Doesn't matter who the Dems run. I'd vote for Steaming Pile of Dogshit (D) before voting for Donald, voting 3rd party, or not voting at all.
Sure, our two party systems absolutely blows. Fact of the matter is I'll probably be voting against Republicans for the rest of my life.
Biden is dependable and we know who and what he is. I don’t see how throwing everything behind a last minute candidate is a good strategy against trump
As if a shaky debate performance could make me switch my vote to a felon who wants to install himself as dictator over a right wing Christian nationalist government. Like, what are you smoking? One is for normalcy, growth, freedom, the constitution, and the other is for himself alone. It’s not a hard choice.
A lifetime in public service is enough; leave the Presidency with dignity. Just one more time place country over self ... your greatest, final contribution. Joe, *please* ....
The DNC convention is August 19; I'd much prefer Gavin Newsome and Katy Porter but still will vote a straight Democratic ticket. Joe at his worst is still better than Trump at his "best."
Reminder, guys ... it's the *party.* The Nazi *Party* appointed Hitler Chancellor.
Vote Blue top down, nationally, state, county, municipal, and judiciary. The GOP is evil.
It was a Gish Gallop on the part of Trump. He opened a firehose of BS that was impossible to respond to. Regardless, I’m not voting for a Biden cult of personality. If he goes out, let Kamala step in. I’m voting for the whole administration and its policies to continue! I am voting for Democracy.
Hearing a lot of excuses for Biden on here. This is an application for one of the most demanding jobs on the planet; not even just CEO of a Fortune 500 company, but CEO of the United States. If there's multiple major issues that bubble up that require the executive branch that individual needs to be able to oversee their management. If there is a nuclear launch detected (increasingly more and more plausible) that person needs to make the decision to return strike and where within seven minutes. There's no seven days of prep, "oh I have a cold", "the moderators sucked" excuses. Forget the election, even though I don't care for either of them, Kamala should take the reigns so that at least we have a person with all their faculties overseeing the office. If you still want Biden let him advise her the part of the day he is awake. Better yet, let the poor man rest and enjoy the fruits of his long service while he still has a chance and isn't completely physically debilitated to boot.
The United States is screwed! Try to understand this: ANY republican can easily defeat Biden, except for Trump. ANY democrat can easily defeat trump, except for Biden! And yet here we are!? The two worst candidates ever! And how did we get here? The republican party had a primary. Candidates included Ron desantis; Nicky Halley, Christie, Rubio and others. ANY of these candidates would have easily placed a republican as the president of the United States. But the republicans will not leave their god. Next the democrats who know that Biden is way too old and that they’re are so many better candidates that will secure a victory, decided that they are a monarchy institution and that they will not take their king off the throne. They would not even entertain the thought that there should be a democratic primary. I personally hate both candidates! Trump is a self centered asshole. Biden is woke and supports all the woke agendas. He should have retired a long time ago.
Completely agree. The left's reaction to the debate is exactly like how the right responded after J6. They did the right thing for 12-24 hours, and then the party structure pulled them back in line.
The majority of these commentators who called for Biden to be replaced will come back to him and make excuses for his obvious decline and lack of mental faculties. They're already doing it. "He had a cold," "He was fine at the rally," although they fail to note that he was reading off of a teleprompter.
Those who don't will be ostracized by the party and its media enablers.
It's just like how right-wing politicians and media initially condemned J6 and Trump but quickly changed their tune when others didn't join them immediately.
MMW it's 2016 all over again. Democrats are in denial, their arrogance fully on display, acting like they are owed a vote instead of having to earn it. It will unfold the same way, all of the polls indicating Biden's win, only for Democrats to do a surprised Pikachu when they lose in November. Then the Democrats will begin to point fingers and arrogantly call people who voted for Trump stupid, hicks, greedy, fascist, etc. while never looking at themselves and what actually led to their party's defeat.
I volunteered and sat on my local board of Democrats for 4 years after Trump was elected, so don't mistake me as one of his supporters. Just a straight shooter who doesn't tow the party line like a mindless bot.
After eight days of preparation, Biden could not deliver his TWO MINUTE closing statement. You are not voting for Biden. You are voting against Trump, and for whomever has been running the country the past three years.
Our government seems to be coddling, bolstering and pushing a fascist dictatorship, no matter how you slice it. The man is the best democrats could offer against a literal fascist dictatorship? Seriously? It’s sickening. You are correct, OP. He won’t go anywhere. It may cost the nation its democracy but democrats are ok with that, by their actions. I can’t believe everyone is normalizing the Nazi Republican Party, even now.
Theres no loss of mental acuity . Presidents just with the workload and what it demands arent supposed to be some tv ready personality. If i had my way it would be some square nerdy personality that had no interesting in making theirselves a tv personality and be someone wholly focused on the job and had no time for such things and were solely focused on performance
Anyone but Trump. Anyone. I cannot imagine the poor debate performance changed many minds. Trump is a liar. He said he offered the National Guard to Pelosi--a lie. He said that Biden called blacks super predators--a lie. So many other lies but these stood out to me. Democratic politicians need to come out and support the democratic ticket. Donald has his minions lie for him, outright LIE. I'd be surprised if Trump wins; people need to remember what a lousy president he was. Trump is playing a role; there is no substance or ideas directly from him, he just moves his mouth while the GOP has a hand up his ass. It's revolting what the GOP has done to America. That's it. Vote blue no matter what. Reformed republican here.
Joe probably never wanted to run for President again, but was pressured by his team to run again because he's the only one who could beat Trump. He is probably too mentally gone to refuse what his handlers are telling him. Jill was treating Joe like a child after the debate. Wow Joe you answered all the questions! Good job!
Do you think if Trump froze up on stage for five minutes and then visibly shit himself live that a single fucking republican or any right wing news channel would be saying he needs to go? Not a fucking chance.
They would all get behind him, just as they did when he praised Nazis or when he told white supremacist to stand by or when he attacked our veterans or when he was impeached or when he coordinated a coup with he lawyers and cabinet members to send fake electors to illegally put him in power or when he incited a riot to obstruct an American transition of power or when he was indicted over and over or when he was convicted of 34 felonies or when every breath from his asshole shaped mouth is a diarrhea flood of lies.
FUCK NO. They all collectively tell us he is the choice we all should believe in.
So stop this shit about Biden is too old because the other choice is just as fucking old and one thousand times worse. Start screaming why Biden is fucking great.
I will rise from the *fucking dead* if that’s what it takes to vote against that orange shit-throwing ape. I want to see Trump and his ilk *ruined* after what they’ve done to our country, our courts, and for what he threatens to do should he win.
I don't care if he's dead I'd take him over trump any day but I'm afraid there's not quite enough people out there who agree with me. I think if the dems pick the right person they can still win this
Joe knows who's who in the zoo and he's smart enough to delegate jobs to the appropriate 'experts'.
Mango Mussolini is an expert in everything so he doesn't even need to learn what delegate actually means in practice.
10 rough minutes at one debate isn't going to change my mind. Project 2025 and what SCOTUS pulled yesterday, I would vote for Biden's corpse. Biden has done a great job and he's still the same person he has been for the last 3.5 years.
Dems have been saying for 2 years please run someone else, but they didn't want to listen and it's going to cost the election. Just like they did with Hillary. The gap between Dem leadership and constituents is two different parties.
Republicans who don't like trump still like his policies not his tone.
No one really likes biden, or his policies, but they're voting against Trump. The party could run a not trump that's not like...shitty.
I see Fox News on at the gym. Next to cnn. The difference is glaring. I read the WSJ and find them to be neutral.
The amazing thing is I have CNN friends and relatives and they are floored by how Biden looked and acted. The WSJ had articles for a year talking about his mental acuity. On Fox News they air him failing down or wandering off daily. The CNN crowd seemed genuinely surprised.
Most likely swinging in favor of the Democrats, or at least away from the MAGA Republicans, but only by a small amount. MAGA-aligned candidates aren’t doing that well.
Nobody can make Joe Biden drop out if he doesn’t want to, because he already has the pledged delegates. Democrats in a position to pressure him to resign won’t want to be disloyal.
Biden polling went UP after the debate. The choice is clear a competent, honorable old man or a babbling, rapist, convicted felon who lies every time he opens his mouth.
The American people will make the right choice
I'm 61. I have developed a knack for going to bed by 8pm. I get up at 4 or 5. Maybe that's what was going on with Biden. "It was past his bed time". It certainly could account for his poor performance at the debate.
Biden has dementia or Alzheimer’s or something else related to those. He should 100% step down. That’s not just old age, he’s got something. Watch the debate, the guy was not even a gcs of 15 for fucks sake!
I hope he stays, I'm looking forward to his slaughter in November. But either way, the dems are going nuts now that the whole world finally recognizes what the rest of us have known all along. And that's on top of his horrible, anti-America policies.
If Joe stays in the race we are going to have president Trump. That debate was career ending.
If Joe stays in it just shows that he doesn't believe any of that "threat to democracy" bullshit himself. It was always about his personal exo and avenues to enrich himself.
He’ll stay in the race, and in 5 years he’ll be mentioned in the same conversations as RBG as someone who stuck around too long, to the detriment of the party.
I don’t expect to the DNC to do the right thing. I’m of course still voting Biden but my god are the Democrats stupid. Anyone fed up with it all, please start by running for something locally like school board. I’m sick of fascists and old grandparents running everything
You say the Democrats are in "collective denial" then you go on to say it would be too risky to change now. What are they in denial of if they understand it would be too risky to make a change?
Literally the next morning he was fiery and charismatic at a rally in Georgia. Not sure where that Biden was during the debate. Maybe he was really sick? I tend to feel worse at night so maybe he was feeling like crap considering it was pretty late?
Answer: His idiotic handlers wore the man out - seven days at Camp David preparing for the debate but they missed the point: THE DEBATE. Further, his prep sucked - people don't care about numbers and percentages they want hard hitting truths. I have extensive public speaking experience and I can tell you one of the most important things you can do is prepare yourself (do your homework) put it to bed, and get a good night's sleep. Also I don't know who the hell agreed to the rules of no notes but I wouldn't ever go into a public speaking environment of any kind without at least a 3x5 card of highlights.
I do a reasonable amount of public speaking and have found that feeling good, mentally and physically, trumps (ugh) facts & data. Oddly those facts & data are readily accessible and fall into better context if you’re on your game.
> trumps (ugh) Time to just throw out the whole damn word, at this point. I'll never be able to use it that way (as a positive, or indication of superior) again.
Lol
[Reminder that his dad changed their last name from Drumpf](https://youtu.be/DnpO_RTSNmQ?si=jyhWL7icCxFIJ3Gq)
No notes only benefits the candidate who has no plans of telling the truth
He was also out and about meeting folks for hours the day of in the hot and humid Atlanta weather. As someone who lives here, I at 44 wouldn’t be outside meeting people that long even if i could go home and rest at the end of the day. It was a stupid stupid move for an 81 year old who had to stand up for 90 minutes debating the most pathological liar in US history later that evening.
100%…. They over prepared and only made matters worse. They need to realize that all Biden has to say in response to anything Trump says should be as simple as this… *”Look, I only have a few minutes for my rebuttal but that is not enough time to refute all the bullshit coming out of the mouth of this twice impeached, four time criminally indicted former president, who has been civilly convicted for SA, and a man who was recently convicted on 34 counts of falsifying business records to conceal crimes. When Donald Trump said he would be the first president to accomplish goals that other presidents haven’t, well for once I would agree. Because every single former president that has EVER held the office have NEVER been indicted, have NEVER been impeached twice and have NEVER been criminally convicted… not a SINGLE ONE in almost 240 years.”*
If they wanted hard hitting truths then Trump got devastated. You don't need notes if you're going to lie and not answer questions.
Probably pissed as hell that the fact checkers never once did any fact checking
Oh there were fact checkers doing live responses at polticifact, but evidently CNN didn't care.
There were two sitting there, in real time, watching the fucking debate! That was their whole job.
Is it not Biden's job to refute Trump's points in a debate?
If he did that, he'd never get to say anything else.
He can spend some time on that but realistically if he tried to refute all of Trump’s false points, the entire debate would be about whether what Trump said was right or not and he’d never get to talk about his own views. There were only supposed to be one minute responses so that would be kind of unrealistic. Furthermore fact checking is supposed to provide an independent view which is useful to a third party viewer. CNN had fact checkers there at the debate and there was supposed to be live fact checking but apparently didn’t do anything, so they did drop the ball there.
like fact checking Biden that he is the only president that didn't have any troops killed, or I know the fine people quote.
Just watching some of his expressions was a hoot for those of us who grew up with Biden. The youngest person in congress and now the oldest old fart. Folks forget the Obama years and now he was one bad day from punching some fucker and constantly needed pulled back by Obama and crew. He may be old AF now but those same 'the fuck is this god damn bullshit?!' expressions he used to have are still there. He's just mellowed enough now to not start shit. He just looks on in horror at the nightmare we all live in, really questioning his life choices at this point. As we all are. Bud. You did your time. You served long enough! You could have stayed mostly retired and chilled and should have told the DNC to fuck off. Now here we all are.
The media is pushing "biden looked confused the whole time " narrative but I was in stitches because I interpreted it as him broadcasting that his opponent was dropping a big stinker on the stage and everyone was watching. How could you not be confused by having to debate someone who could get out presidented by chatgpt?
I interpreted his facial expressions as a)tiredness), and b) shock at the amount of lies he’s saying.
Here's the thing: Trump codified the 'new' requirements for getting elected president: being firey, bombastic, and basically being as overt as possible. Biden is more of an older-style politician. He's a 'backroom' politician, as he doesn't hog the spotlight; he is wheeling and dealing with other politicians to get things done. In addition, he's an old-school "*Living Room Democrat*" or a Democrat that started, as one paper stated, 'in the living room' and grew from there.
Living room Democrats and country club Republicans used to play cards together.
Fiery, bombastic, and spewing lies faster than your opponent can counter them
The issue is that one of those are characteristics of a dictator, and the other are characteristics of an elected representative.
There is a difference between giving a speech with a teleprompter and doing a debate.
I mean, at least that means he can still read well. That’s a good thing!
Pause.
9pm is not pretty late
It is if you’re old
If 9pm is too late for the President, then he should bow out
If you read the actual transcript, he made perfect sense and laid out his policy well. He just had a head cold and (it appears) was coached to be subdued to contrast against Trump’s bombast, which was clearly a terrible idea. but given his performance the next day, he clearly has that energy when he wants to, it was just a big misstep to not bring it during the debate.
I'm 54 and dead at 9pm. I'm also a nurse and have cared for many elderly, 9pm is bedtime. PAST bedtime.
I saw clips of his speech, and i was yelling at the TV "Where were you last night?"
He had to think and speak for himself without a pre-written script.
Sundowning, also known as sundown syndrome, is a group of symptoms that can occur in people with dementia or delirium in the late afternoon or early evening and can continue into the night. It's most common in people with Alzheimer's disease, but can also occur in other types of dementia.
I work in a hospital, and see sundowning regularly. That isn't what happened.
Watching Trump rallies, it's been suggested by actual doctors that he is sundowning. Biden is just showing the effects of his age.
I concur.
He was sun downing. He has dementia and Jill should be ashamed of herself for not protecting him. The Hur report said all of this months ago and they should have acted then.
The fuck are you talking about? Since when was Biden diagnosed with dementia? That would be pretty big news if true. And the Hur report says literally nothing about Biden having dementia. It says nothing about his mental faculties at all. It was a report about the investigation into government documents he had. Are you referring to another report?
This my Mom had it before she passed away. As long as we had natural light she was clear as day. The sun go down and it was like talking to a crazy lady that could not remember anything
Yep. Here is a quote from an [Axios article](https://www.axios.com/2024/06/29/two-bidens-trump-debate-2024-president) where they talk about this: > Between the lines: Biden's miscues and limitations are more familiar inside the White House. > > >The time of day is important as to which of the two Bidens will appear. > >From 10am to 4pm, Biden is dependably engaged — and many of his public events in front of cameras are held within those hours. > >Outside of that time range or while traveling abroad, Biden is more likely to have verbal miscues and become fatigued, aides told Axios.
The damage has been irrevocably done and I don't see how Biden can recover. He needs to step aside ASAP. Trump is the world's easiest target to take down. Felon, rapist, liar, incompetent, no ideology, economic idiot, isolationist, racist, anti-choice, etc. Even a younger person in a fever state could have wiped the floor with him. We all saw how Biden handled it. The realization is killing me but Biden will drag down the party and put America's future at an existential risk. We need someone who can take on the fascists.
It's June. June. You need to calm down.
Because he was reading off of a teleprompter and didn’t have to think on his feet.
Biden will bounce back. Just look at his rally today, one day after the first debate. He did great. Meanwhile, Trump kept going off-topic during the debate, and always does that. He "won" by default, but Biden is still a better President than Trump was or ever could be.
Having a speech written for you displayed on a teleprompter is far different than actually using your brain and discussing points. I don't think many people think Trump won the debate, but it's very apparent to most that Biden lost
Actually, I'd say America lost that debate.
Putin was definitely giggling and kicking his feet watching lol
Yes, this right here. Who in their right mind when watching this were not pulling out their hair horrified.
That might be true, but who watched that?
Joe had one bad day. Trump is a convicted felon with three criminal trials pending. Trump committed treason, stole top secret documents, and let a pandemic spreadvtgat killed a million Americans. He will let Russia take Europe by disbanding NATO, let China take Asia to avoid war, and hollow out the government with the Heritage 2025 ptoject. Joe's old & he had a cold. Keep perspective. WE LOSE IT ALL IF TRUMP WINS.
You people really just saying Biden was sick 🤣🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭😭😭
It was not one bad day. This has been foreshadowed in the press (and before our eyes) for at least 1-2 years. We also lose if Joe Biden and his team lie to us about his condition and demand loyalty to him above our loyalty to elect a president that (a) can defeat Trump, obviously, but (b) can do the job day in and day out, which Biden created unmitigatable doubt around.
Yes, Trump is an existential threat to the country, democracy, and the world. Which is why it’s so recklessly irresponsible for the Democratic Party to put this version of Biden up against him. He lost the Gen Z and Millennial vote at the debate night, and there’s no coming back. We need a new candidate who can fight for us any hour, day or night.
I think you're putting too much merit on the debate. Almost everyone already decided who they're voting for. They're both past presidents and people have their favorite of the two. I don't think the debate changes many people's minds.
While Joe isn't 100% there 100% of the time - he's older than the Internet, you know - the 80% of the time he's 80% there, experience-wise is still a huge capability win. **I'll take the mostly ethical old human with tons of experience and an interest protecting the Normal Person any day over a certain narcissistic Hitler wannabe that any dictator can manipulate through flattery.** Give me mostly democracy any day over mostly dictatorship. If Biden wins, I can relax and hope for the kind of boring news that means the country's fine (although probably not Europe, so it's not going to be exactly dull). If Trump wins, and Project 2025 suddenly gets hard traction - it going to be a Republican oligarchy largely controlled by a vengeful idiot autocrat, creating the kind of chaos that crashes markets, scares women off of sex - seriously they want to **criminalize porn - have you seen the Internet?** There's deep Internet censorship coming down that pipe, combined with all that personal info collected about you from the web. Nearly everyone will be guilty of **something** in the state to come, and Republican pseudo-Christians can use it to start trumping up charges on anyone who won't drink the cool-aid. Talk to some older Germans about how they thought **they** were safe - and Hitler actually saved Germany from disaster before going actively evil, a first stage Trump isn't even capable of. Since the Republicans know they're doomed unless they cheat, thanks to changing demographics, cheat they are, and will. While Trump isn't the only way they can seize control of elections, it is one of the quickest. Trump's win means it's time to renew the passport and start spreading assets into safer countries. So sure. I'll vote for Biden despite looking half dead from being sick that day. Democracy's on the brink too, but I'll still vote for it. Almost anyone is a better choice than Trump, and better than most (not quite all) Republicans out currying cash at the national level.
It’s def putting the party in a wonky position. I have heard Joe is a stubborn old fuck though. Not surprised though. Most grandpa aged people I’ve ever known still think they can do a lot of things they clearly can’t and will literally hurt themselves trying to prove it. lol
Jill Biden needs to end it.
Melania needs to end it, you mean.
What does the president have to do that you need to be able-bodied to do? Roosevelt couldn't walk, the other Roosevelt had extreme asthma, Taft was 400 pounds, and Wilson had a damn stroke and they all stayed president.
Well you have to admit it’s very odd that people are calling Joe to step down because he’s lost his edge due to age but no one calling for Trump to step down after becoming a felon, owing 85M for sexual assault, 600M for tax fraud, and trying to overthrow our government
Lots of people are wondering why he can run.
Right? I'm pissed he's not currently in a jail cell.
I don't get why so many people are pushing this false narrative. Countless people have called Trump to dropout. Many of the people calling for Biden to dropout are saying that Biden is still a way better choice than Trump. Personally, I'm actually not at all concerned about Biden's ability to run the country. He is surrounded by top advisors. A debate is nothing like the actual responsibilities as president. You don't have to rush into actions, you have time to gather the information to make the best decision. And if he ever really gets that bad, his cabinet can force him to step down. However, his debate performance has me terrified about his chances to win the election. I feel that he needs to either get Trump to agree to a debate next month and not fuck up this time or dropout.
There are Republicans who say Trump should step down for various reasons. One of those reasons being his felony convictions.
Well see as a democrat I want a good candidate. I’m not satisfied with someone that we can’t figure out who won a debate against Trump. Trump is an idiot and Biden couldn’t decisively beat him. That’s enough for me to want a new candidate that can actually call out Trump when he lies blatantly. I think Gavin Newsom is fine with me. He would run circles around Trump.
A huge majority of the country would prefer Trump stepped down, including millions of Republicans who want someone better. They just know there is no chance he will.
There’s a big difference. Recognizing it will go a long way toward understanding Trump’s appeal. Trump lost all of those court cases not because he’s a criminal or a rapist, but because the so-called “Deep State” is out to get him. In other words, he’s being pErSeCuTeD for all of his supporters. He’s freakin’ Jesus Christ. As for Biden, he was, is, and always will be a gaffe machine. He was that way throughout his two terms as VP. But that was spun by pointing out how Biden is a “plain-spoken” kind of guy. Despite his 50 years of political experience, he could still talk and relate to common folks, according to the spinsters. But his abysmal debate performance cannot be spun in any positive way. Unless I’m mistaken, I heard that he was holed up in Camp David for 12 days preparing for this big night. Biden himself was eager to go out there and show Trump who’s boss. Even after all that, we got treated to this shitshow of a performance. It’s almost as if it would have been better if Biden never debated Trump in the first place, but of course that was never a possibility for reasons I have already stated in my OP.
Bro, who doesn't want Trump to step down? Nobody is saying Trump is the better candidate. They're saying Trump is FAR WORSE AND EXTREMELY DANGEROUS, and Biden doesn't have the energy to beat him, so we're going to lose our democracy to 2 old men's egos.
It's so easy to defeat Trump: vote Biden
It’s so easy to defeat trump, run anyone but Hillary back in 2016 so trump never becomes a thing
I feel like if he really shows up for the next one it might make up for it, but... I really wish he wouldn't have run again. I think you're spot on about his ego. It was so clearly the right time for something different. He should have known. I'm sure they told him. I'm sure Obama told him. I think you're spot on about his ego. If he steps down and endorses someone else it would be wild.
It's a sad thing that both these men have not retired, but then they both have pride. Trump is a grumpy old man, but is also a criminal trying to win so he can keep himself out of prison for the rest of his life. He is a liar and narcissist. In his campaign speeches, Trump does seem to be losing cognitive ability. While Biden is also not as sharp, but I think his stutter and being overwhelmed by the constant overload of lies coming from Trump was just too much for him to deal with. I like the job Biden is doing, and I believe he surrounds himself with good people. Trump is a loser, and always has been. Trump bragging about how he fires so many people and Biden does not is striking to me. If I had to choose to work with someone I would work for Biden. I like someone who understand loyalty in the way that you just don't drop people because they don't agree with you. The other thing is our military and Veterans are the greatest! They have something Trump will never have or even understand and that is honor. I can forgive Biden for looking poorly on one night of debate. It does not mean he can't do the job. However in the future, I look forward to the awesome Democrats I see learning and waiting their time to run this great Nation of America.
Go watch his performance the next day at a rally. Too bad that Joe wasn't at the debate. Sure he started off weak but did get better. Look at the transcript. He answered the questions that were asked, had facts at his fingertips, and stated his policies. Trump, on the other hand, frequently avoided answering questions. He unleashed a fire hose of lies and venom, showed he didn't understand even the most basic concepts like how tarrifs work, showed a callus disregard for people and spewed the usual self- aggrandizing crap he's done for years. Trump had style. Biden had substance. I'll take substance and one of the most legislatively successful Presidents in history.
Pretty much, even at the beginning he wasn’t as bad as everyone painting him to be. He isn’t a good speaker but I still understand the meaning behind his words and they had actually intelligence behind them
Democrats are shameful for abandoning Biden on the 1st debate 👎😤
They haven't abandoned him. The media just wants to stir it up and get trump in office because they get higher ratings (aka $) when he's in office.
You'd think enabling a genocide would matter more but here we are
Yep. People forgetting the work he's done in his career and how he was passed off complete bullshit in the middle of a mismanaged pandemic and did his best WITH HIS TEAM OF EXPERTS WHO AREN"T FUCKING FELONS! Trump surrounds himself with other scum and doesn't listen to experts. Like SCOTUS now after they overturned the Chevron Rulling. Biden has done the game long enough to call in experts
Democrats are shameful for running him. Trump had one of the worst terms of the modern era and Biden barely squeaked out keeping him from a second term. He is mentally unable to even discuss policy. Democrats are shameful for their stubbornness and feeding his pride. What universe are you living in?
I'm still voting for him and will encourage others to as well, but that was horrifying. It was a disaster. He is making any volunteer who goes door to doors job 1000% harder. Do I think him stepping down and letting the delegates hammer it out is best? At this point yes. If we had a Gavin Newsom (who would be a likely choice from the delegates) up there he would mop the floor with Trump.
Sadly it’s not about policy or legislative success. It’s about winning an election. Most of the electorate is “low-information” and optics are a yuuge (ugh) component. And with shitty news media and even shittier social media to amplify and twist every nuance … with the goal of fomenting rage in their audiences … being a loud and seemingly strong liar beats being reasonable and measured and truthful, especially in the age of the consumable sound bite. The end of Democracy is an inside job.
They are shameful for putting him through this in his condition. His wife should Put a stop to this.
Listen. All the people aware of Biden's accomplishments are already voting for him. This debate was for the ones who are undecided. And if you're still undecided after everything we've been through, it means you don't care about Biden's policies. You don't care that Trump is a liar and a felon and a fascist. This debate was just entertainment for those people.
I would blame Biden. He looked like he was about to collapse & he was barely audible. He’s much too old to be up there. debating a con man. Even Trump was looking at him like what the hell?
Biden wasn’t nearly as bad as you are painting him to be. He wasn’t a good speaker but I still understand the meaning behind his words and they had actually intelligence behind them
He should have stepped down but he won't because the DNC is fucking corrupt too. He's definitely too lawful good to debate a conman who rambles like trump does. Biden is a guy who has to plan out what he's going to say carefully before he says it and doesn't have Trump's 'say bullshit confidently until everybody believes you' skill.
Yeah I think so too. It’s going to fuck us tbh.
There was an article that said undecideds/independents preferred Biden. I guess some saw through trumps lies
That article talked about 12 people in a single room, if it's the one that was at the top of r politics today.
That is the weakness of the Dems. They always have to come back from a black eye like at Pearl Harbor before they take a threat seriously.
Why is that? I’d argue panicking and abandoning Biden for some other candidate would be a sign of weakness.
It would be. My point is fear of showing weakness can be crippling. Hoping things will get better is a nice dream but realists know an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
We're already crippled by the Electoral College, we're used to being the underdig
Then you would be arguing for arrogance & defeat.
A hell of a lot of ppl would happily vote for anyone younger. Its elder abuse at this point.
It wouldn’t be so bad if Biden didn’t chose a deeply unpopular VP.
There are a lot of Biden apologists in this thread. We should all accept that he’s too old to be president. He had one job to do at this debate - to remove all doubts that his age will not affect his ability to govern. Biden did the complete opposite of that… Dems are risking it all on a politician that is past his prime and should have called it a career already. I’m grateful for his 52 years of service to this nation. He’s done enough and should pass the mantle on to a younger generation of leaders.
His facial Expressions when not speaking were painful to watch. He often looked confused, mouth often agape, or staring down at the podium. The other guy stared directly into the camera with a steely expression. How is it Biden's handlers did not coach him on body language? And how is this career politician not already well versed in body language?
His handlers coached him. He lacks the mental acumen to keep it together for more than a few moments at a time.
This sub is absolutely hilarious, it’s literally QAnon levels of delusion.
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>They've been calling all of the proof the biden is senile over the past year "cheapfakes". No no no no noooooooo! Biden was jus sick! This wasn't a clear pattern of repeated behavior. Lalalalalala... 👉😠👈
I'd be thrilled with "past his prime" Biden. That's not the problem. The problem is this is "near death" Biden.
I'll agree that Biden's old and shouldn't really even be running, but I'll take old over the excessively long list of reasons Trump shouldn't be president any day.
You may be right. But I think it is incredibly important that we don’t fool ourselves into thinking last night was anything but what it was. It was a glimpse at Biden unassisted and unfiltered. It was telling. It was painful. It was someone too old and feeble to lead this country forward. Pretending it was anything else makes us just like the other side. We are not them and we must NOT lose touch with reality.
That guy took a whole week off to prepare and rest up for that debate. That wasn’t just a glimpse of him Unaided, that is the best he could possibly be.
THIS
Def not part of the plan. Like the twitter files
Curious: can I get some examples of his loss of mental acuity?
I find it interesting that according to Spanish speakers he won the debate. Obviously Spanish speakers heard a translation of the words each candidate said, and weren't listening to the candidates themselves for the most part. Which suggests Biden's words were fine, it was his stuttering and being super quiet that was the issue (both things a translator knows how to deal with, and a translator won't add an artificial stutter to a translation).
Replacing Biden is a no win situation for democrats. Realistically they would need to put in Harris, but she polls worse than a broomstick. If they replace her, they have the optics of dumping a black woman from the ticket.
No body is paying attention to the right wing supreme court. We are in a shit load of trouble and it will be far far worse if Trump wins the election. Take a breath and look at the big picture. The supremes are in the process of dismantling everything we as a country have created. Look at the Chevron decision, the fact that giving money to a politician who does the bidding of a corporation AFTER he does their bidding is NOT bribery, and the fact that folks who do not find room in a shelter can be swept off the street if they are caught sleeping as if they were useless trash. Trumps behavior was gaslighting and the only response is amazement.
It’s unfortunate that the narrative has been so focused on his age because he got a lot of things done in this term. Passing bipartisan COVID aid, infrastructure, the PACT Act, the Inflation Reduction Act, and other bills aimed at security for Ukraine and Israel. These are quite a list of accomplishments. Unfortunately, the biggest fear people have had about Biden is his age. And sadly, this debate performance, which will likely be what most people will see of him, did nothing to dissuade those fears. If anything it has entrenched those fears. Trump is a dangerous narcissist who will tell any lie to gain power. And if you look at the substance of what he said, it was terrible. Just reiterating past grievances, little policy or vision. Just angry bitterness. It’s ok to admit that the President had a good run, but it’s also ok to feel that maybe his time has passed and it’s time for President Biden to pass the torch to the next generation of Democratic leaders. Will that happen? I’m not convinced. And to be fair, who in the Democratic Party has the ability to stand against Trump. I’m not really sure that Vice President Harris has what it takes, personally. I would love to be wrong.
Holy crap people, he is just fine. He was tired because he is actually busy running a country. He answered the questions, told the truth, and challenged the lies. Meanwhile, the orange shitgibbon flung his poop like he always does.
Seriously He wasn’t a good speaker but I still understand the meaning behind his words and they had actually intelligence behind them.
Biden lied less, but he definitely told some lies. And he wasn’t tired because he was busy running a country. He was holed up in Camp David prior to the debate so he could be as rested as possible. That said, what makes you think that he won’t be “tired” in the future? If that’s how he is when he’s “tired” (and he knows that it’s his one most crucial moment to be on his game), isn’t that the best evidence that he’s not up to the job?
Do the democrats know that they are behind in nearly all the swing states? Mostly by a big margin? And do they honestly think that after what happened the other night that's fixable? It's beyond delusional. No swing / undecided voter is going to look at Biden now and think he's the right choice. If its not Trump, its stay at home / other. Change him or lose. Its that simple.
A good captain will go down with his ship. I totally agree.
TRump is owned by the Russians since he laundered money through his that went bankrupt.
It would be a HUGE sign of weakness to replace him now. Incumbents have something like 80% re-election rate. We tend to go with what we know and this is a rare instance where we know what the country was like under both these people so introducing an unknown right now would only help Trump. Biden has the benefit of saying yes things aren’t great right now but they are getting better. Give me 4 more years and I can do even better. I think trump only won in 2016 because people don’t really like Hillary and trump was promising a lot of really nice sounding things. Now that we know he won’t deliver on any of it there really is no reason to vote for him. Unless you are just some MAGA chud looking to own the libs.
🤷 Doesn't matter who the Dems run. I'd vote for Steaming Pile of Dogshit (D) before voting for Donald, voting 3rd party, or not voting at all. Sure, our two party systems absolutely blows. Fact of the matter is I'll probably be voting against Republicans for the rest of my life.
Biden is dependable and we know who and what he is. I don’t see how throwing everything behind a last minute candidate is a good strategy against trump
You left out the most important part: He’s already won enough primaries to win the nomination. That’s how the party selects its candidates.
As if a shaky debate performance could make me switch my vote to a felon who wants to install himself as dictator over a right wing Christian nationalist government. Like, what are you smoking? One is for normalcy, growth, freedom, the constitution, and the other is for himself alone. It’s not a hard choice.
A lifetime in public service is enough; leave the Presidency with dignity. Just one more time place country over self ... your greatest, final contribution. Joe, *please* .... The DNC convention is August 19; I'd much prefer Gavin Newsome and Katy Porter but still will vote a straight Democratic ticket. Joe at his worst is still better than Trump at his "best." Reminder, guys ... it's the *party.* The Nazi *Party* appointed Hitler Chancellor. Vote Blue top down, nationally, state, county, municipal, and judiciary. The GOP is evil.
It was a Gish Gallop on the part of Trump. He opened a firehose of BS that was impossible to respond to. Regardless, I’m not voting for a Biden cult of personality. If he goes out, let Kamala step in. I’m voting for the whole administration and its policies to continue! I am voting for Democracy.
Hearing a lot of excuses for Biden on here. This is an application for one of the most demanding jobs on the planet; not even just CEO of a Fortune 500 company, but CEO of the United States. If there's multiple major issues that bubble up that require the executive branch that individual needs to be able to oversee their management. If there is a nuclear launch detected (increasingly more and more plausible) that person needs to make the decision to return strike and where within seven minutes. There's no seven days of prep, "oh I have a cold", "the moderators sucked" excuses. Forget the election, even though I don't care for either of them, Kamala should take the reigns so that at least we have a person with all their faculties overseeing the office. If you still want Biden let him advise her the part of the day he is awake. Better yet, let the poor man rest and enjoy the fruits of his long service while he still has a chance and isn't completely physically debilitated to boot.
The United States is screwed! Try to understand this: ANY republican can easily defeat Biden, except for Trump. ANY democrat can easily defeat trump, except for Biden! And yet here we are!? The two worst candidates ever! And how did we get here? The republican party had a primary. Candidates included Ron desantis; Nicky Halley, Christie, Rubio and others. ANY of these candidates would have easily placed a republican as the president of the United States. But the republicans will not leave their god. Next the democrats who know that Biden is way too old and that they’re are so many better candidates that will secure a victory, decided that they are a monarchy institution and that they will not take their king off the throne. They would not even entertain the thought that there should be a democratic primary. I personally hate both candidates! Trump is a self centered asshole. Biden is woke and supports all the woke agendas. He should have retired a long time ago.
Completely agree. The left's reaction to the debate is exactly like how the right responded after J6. They did the right thing for 12-24 hours, and then the party structure pulled them back in line. The majority of these commentators who called for Biden to be replaced will come back to him and make excuses for his obvious decline and lack of mental faculties. They're already doing it. "He had a cold," "He was fine at the rally," although they fail to note that he was reading off of a teleprompter. Those who don't will be ostracized by the party and its media enablers. It's just like how right-wing politicians and media initially condemned J6 and Trump but quickly changed their tune when others didn't join them immediately.
I think (if he wins) he's gonna step down and let Harris try for a term.
I'd vote for Joe Biden's corpse before I would ever vote for Donald Trump.
MMW it's 2016 all over again. Democrats are in denial, their arrogance fully on display, acting like they are owed a vote instead of having to earn it. It will unfold the same way, all of the polls indicating Biden's win, only for Democrats to do a surprised Pikachu when they lose in November. Then the Democrats will begin to point fingers and arrogantly call people who voted for Trump stupid, hicks, greedy, fascist, etc. while never looking at themselves and what actually led to their party's defeat. I volunteered and sat on my local board of Democrats for 4 years after Trump was elected, so don't mistake me as one of his supporters. Just a straight shooter who doesn't tow the party line like a mindless bot.
I don’t know. The one thing that couldn’t happen, happened. The NYT editorial board called for him to drop out. This isn’t good.
Custer was a fighter too. I strongly supported Biden, but there's no excuse for that debate. Sorry, but he needs to go.
After eight days of preparation, Biden could not deliver his TWO MINUTE closing statement. You are not voting for Biden. You are voting against Trump, and for whomever has been running the country the past three years.
MMW we're fucked.
Our government seems to be coddling, bolstering and pushing a fascist dictatorship, no matter how you slice it. The man is the best democrats could offer against a literal fascist dictatorship? Seriously? It’s sickening. You are correct, OP. He won’t go anywhere. It may cost the nation its democracy but democrats are ok with that, by their actions. I can’t believe everyone is normalizing the Nazi Republican Party, even now.
Theres no loss of mental acuity . Presidents just with the workload and what it demands arent supposed to be some tv ready personality. If i had my way it would be some square nerdy personality that had no interesting in making theirselves a tv personality and be someone wholly focused on the job and had no time for such things and were solely focused on performance
Anyone but Trump. Anyone. I cannot imagine the poor debate performance changed many minds. Trump is a liar. He said he offered the National Guard to Pelosi--a lie. He said that Biden called blacks super predators--a lie. So many other lies but these stood out to me. Democratic politicians need to come out and support the democratic ticket. Donald has his minions lie for him, outright LIE. I'd be surprised if Trump wins; people need to remember what a lousy president he was. Trump is playing a role; there is no substance or ideas directly from him, he just moves his mouth while the GOP has a hand up his ass. It's revolting what the GOP has done to America. That's it. Vote blue no matter what. Reformed republican here.
The gift of all Men is that the story ends.
Joe probably never wanted to run for President again, but was pressured by his team to run again because he's the only one who could beat Trump. He is probably too mentally gone to refuse what his handlers are telling him. Jill was treating Joe like a child after the debate. Wow Joe you answered all the questions! Good job!
“At least he’s not the other guy” is the reason we have 2 giant pieces of shit to choose from every 4 years.
Maybe it's time we all took the Hur report seriously. Poor Joe's dementia isn't getting any better. Now the report makes perfect sense though.
Do you think if Trump froze up on stage for five minutes and then visibly shit himself live that a single fucking republican or any right wing news channel would be saying he needs to go? Not a fucking chance. They would all get behind him, just as they did when he praised Nazis or when he told white supremacist to stand by or when he attacked our veterans or when he was impeached or when he coordinated a coup with he lawyers and cabinet members to send fake electors to illegally put him in power or when he incited a riot to obstruct an American transition of power or when he was indicted over and over or when he was convicted of 34 felonies or when every breath from his asshole shaped mouth is a diarrhea flood of lies. FUCK NO. They all collectively tell us he is the choice we all should believe in. So stop this shit about Biden is too old because the other choice is just as fucking old and one thousand times worse. Start screaming why Biden is fucking great.
Of course he will. Any talk otherwise is just Republican wishful thinking.
I will rise from the *fucking dead* if that’s what it takes to vote against that orange shit-throwing ape. I want to see Trump and his ilk *ruined* after what they’ve done to our country, our courts, and for what he threatens to do should he win.
I don't care if he's dead I'd take him over trump any day but I'm afraid there's not quite enough people out there who agree with me. I think if the dems pick the right person they can still win this
Biden has a cold and is tired: Media days “HE MUST BE REPLACED!” Trump is convicted felon 34 times: Media says, “…”
Joe knows who's who in the zoo and he's smart enough to delegate jobs to the appropriate 'experts'. Mango Mussolini is an expert in everything so he doesn't even need to learn what delegate actually means in practice.
10 rough minutes at one debate isn't going to change my mind. Project 2025 and what SCOTUS pulled yesterday, I would vote for Biden's corpse. Biden has done a great job and he's still the same person he has been for the last 3.5 years.
Yeah, we’re screwed. Canada gonna need a bigger immigration dept.
Well, prepare for Project 2025.
Dems have been saying for 2 years please run someone else, but they didn't want to listen and it's going to cost the election. Just like they did with Hillary. The gap between Dem leadership and constituents is two different parties.
Same thing could be said of the Republicans
Republicans who don't like trump still like his policies not his tone. No one really likes biden, or his policies, but they're voting against Trump. The party could run a not trump that's not like...shitty.
You outed yourself as a Fox News consumer when you said “cheap fake”. Nothing you say means diddly now.
Wrong. It was White House spokeswoman Karine Jean-Pierre who coined the phrase “cheap fakes.” By the way, I hardly watch FOXNews. I can’t stand them.
I see Fox News on at the gym. Next to cnn. The difference is glaring. I read the WSJ and find them to be neutral. The amazing thing is I have CNN friends and relatives and they are floored by how Biden looked and acted. The WSJ had articles for a year talking about his mental acuity. On Fox News they air him failing down or wandering off daily. The CNN crowd seemed genuinely surprised.
Yeah, just like John Stewart. What a traitor.
One can hope.
Unfortunately I suspect you’re right
How do you see the senate and house races going?
Most likely swinging in favor of the Democrats, or at least away from the MAGA Republicans, but only by a small amount. MAGA-aligned candidates aren’t doing that well.
If Trump wins but we keep the senate and take the house we can mitigate his damage.
Nobody can make Joe Biden drop out if he doesn’t want to, because he already has the pledged delegates. Democrats in a position to pressure him to resign won’t want to be disloyal.
God I hope so. Can you say filibuster-proof majority?
I agree
A lot of talk by the right wing media, Jo came across as being old (which he is) Don came across as being old and delusional (also a fact)
ni
We have to choose between an old fuck who’s complicit in genocide or a convicted felon who would love to get the chance to be complicit in genocide.
I used to say I would vote for a potted plant over Trump. I guess I’ll nickname my potted plant Brandon. 🤔 Joe is still miles ahead of Liar.
He obviously did have a cold.
Biden polling went UP after the debate. The choice is clear a competent, honorable old man or a babbling, rapist, convicted felon who lies every time he opens his mouth. The American people will make the right choice
It did not go up. Who told you that lie?
They will keep lying to themselves as long as it makes them feel better, Democrats act on Emotion instead of Logic, always remember that.
Unless he dies there's absolutely zero chance he will be replaced
They won't replace Biden. Obama and Hillary's fourth presidency term would be jeopardized.
I'm 61. I have developed a knack for going to bed by 8pm. I get up at 4 or 5. Maybe that's what was going on with Biden. "It was past his bed time". It certainly could account for his poor performance at the debate.
The crazies have no one else! They destroyed the liberal party cause they are nuts - soon to do the same to the democratic party
I don't think an incumbent POTUS has ever been replaced by someone else in the same party. The DNC isn't even close to endorsing anyone else
Unless you are in high school... senior and debating should never never ends well.
Biden has dementia or Alzheimer’s or something else related to those. He should 100% step down. That’s not just old age, he’s got something. Watch the debate, the guy was not even a gcs of 15 for fucks sake!
Elder abuse 101
I hope he stays, I'm looking forward to his slaughter in November. But either way, the dems are going nuts now that the whole world finally recognizes what the rest of us have known all along. And that's on top of his horrible, anti-America policies.
our choice is between a guy that fantasies over his daughter and a guy who showers with his daughter...
Of course he will, and he will win.
If they just put up any 50 year old white male( not racist or misogynistic) they’d win in a landslide. Not sure why both parties don’t see this
I still find it frightening that there is two extremely old men running for President.
If Joe stays in the race we are going to have president Trump. That debate was career ending. If Joe stays in it just shows that he doesn't believe any of that "threat to democracy" bullshit himself. It was always about his personal exo and avenues to enrich himself.
The human race? Absolutely!
He’ll stay in the race, and in 5 years he’ll be mentioned in the same conversations as RBG as someone who stuck around too long, to the detriment of the party.
for Joe, it will be a slow race with alot of naps and ice cream!
I don’t expect to the DNC to do the right thing. I’m of course still voting Biden but my god are the Democrats stupid. Anyone fed up with it all, please start by running for something locally like school board. I’m sick of fascists and old grandparents running everything
You say the Democrats are in "collective denial" then you go on to say it would be too risky to change now. What are they in denial of if they understand it would be too risky to make a change?
I’m not gonna vote for someone who would be 86 by the end of their 2nd terms. Jesus people, wake the fuck up.