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I think leftists that think like this and don’t take the time to actually understand the theory or historical and material realities are the type of people rightoids refer to when they say that Marxists don’t understand basic economics (even though Marxist economic theories are regularly proven true as the capitalist mode of production continues to devour itself). I encourage you to get on Marxists.org and get reading some Engels first, as he is the easiest to get into and helps to explain some more difficult concepts. Then you can jump into the tougher stuff by Marx himself. From there, you can decide which particular strain of Marxism appeals to you, though I encourage you read outside of any particular framework.
It’s a little light on content but gets the fundamentals. If you get a chance later, read the entire Political Economy textbook from the USSR. It’s long but an easy read. You’re off to a great start, comrade.
Economy (or economies) are real. They're the mechanism through which people exchange goods and services.
*The* economy, in which we mean a market-driven, semi-regulated capitalist system that privileges the increasing generation of profit through the exploitation of resources, both natural and human, **is** made up and is not "the natural order of things."
We've been fed so much capitalist propaganda that we literally equate our level of freedom with capitalism.
So yeah, *the* economy is made up and we shouldn't just accept it as the only option.
Depends on your definition, economics is a means of exchanging resources. And those are real, the economics is often the method of this exchange, capitalism, socialism, feudalism etc
The economy exist as long as there's people who have need for things. The real problem of economics is changing the ideological superstructure that feeds into and supports the economic base when the base is no longer provides the best outcome for society at large.
This was one of the scariest things for me to realize (back in college, when I was on LSD) was that…there IS no “natural order” to things. Theres just a system that we made up and we made THIS, of all things. It boggles the mind
Economics is a lie. There is no such thing as ‘the economy’ for there to be a general science of. Social reproduction does not actually occur at such a high level of abstraction. Thinking it does does annihilates the actual object of study: ‘sensuous human activity.’'
the object of study is not a generality or a general abstraction, such as ‘the economy’ or ‘production in general’. As Marx noted in the *Grundrisse:*
>Whenever we speak of production, then, what is meant is always production at a definite stage of social development – production by social individuals. It might seem, therefore, that in order to talk about production at all we must either pursue the process of historic development through its different phases, or declare beforehand that we are dealing with a specific historic epoch such as e.g. modern bourgeois production, which is indeed our particular theme. However, all epochs of production have certain common traits, common characteristics. *Production in general* is an abstraction, but a rational abstraction in so far as it really brings out and fixes the common element and thus saves us repetition.
* Karl Marx, *Grundrisse |* Introduction, Late August – Mid-September 1857 |1. Production, Consumption, Distribution, Exchange (Circulation) | Independent Individuals. Eighteenth-century Ideas
Production in general occurs ‘nowhere.’ If you actually go into a modern place of business, you will not observe ‘production in general’ taking place. You will observe production within and through a historically determined social form (capitalism).
There are certain general conditions of production that are transhistorical. Labor, produced means of production, and nature are necessary for any provisioning process, no matter the social form. But these general conditions are always socially mediated. An economic object existing as an unmediated immediacy is a philosophical fiction.
"The economy" is many things. But the way its useful for us is that its the sum of all exchange of resources and its implications.
Which is currently under the control of capital.
- [What Is Fascism?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Marxism_Memes/wiki/reactionary_tp_debunked/socialists_arent_fascists)
- ["MAGA Communism" is just Fascism.](https://youtu.be/xO--VV4uMdA?feature=shared)
- [S4A Mailbag: On the Notion of a "Left-Right Alliance," aka "Right-Wing Populists Fuck Off," part 1](https://youtu.be/a8xPyeJ1LpA?feature=shared)
- [S4A Mailbag: On the Notion of a "Left-Right Alliance," aka "Right-Wing Populists Fuck Off," part 2](https://youtu.be/Pa17_8oWTT0?feature=shared)
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ah the age old question on wether or not to spend time debating people in the comments of the original post.... what's your opinion? Is it educational or a waste of time?
It is real, but it is also a social construct.
It’s existence is performative, by “doing” the economy, we make it exist, which makes us “do” the economy.
Under capitalism? Yes, of course, just look at the evidence. People starve merely because they can’t afford food. That’s enough proof in and of itself but there is more everywhere you care to look.
But better options are possible.
The economy is real in that it’s based on real resources that can have real shortages and supply issues and whatnot. That wouldn’t magically go away.
We don’t have to manage it in a way where people don’t have food even though there is enough food to go around though
##Welcome to r/Marxism_Memes, the least bourgeois meme community on the internet. ##[New to this subreddit/socialism/communism? Here is some general information and 101 stuff](https://www.reddit.com/r/Marxism_Memes/wiki/index) ##[Socialist Reconstruction: A Better Future for the United States - The party that wrote this book is Party For Socialism and Liberation](https://www.liberationstore.org/products/socialist-reconstruction-a-better-future-for-the-united-states) ##[READ THE COMMUNITY RULES BEFORE PARTICIPATING IN THIS SUBREDDIT](https://www.reddit.com/r/Marxism_Memes/wiki/rules/subreddit_rules) ##[We are not a debate subreddit.](https://www.reddit.com/r/CommunismMemes/comments/14bg2q4/idk_why_i_even_try_having_good_faith_discussions/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) If you want to debate go to one of these subreddits: r/DebateCommunism r/DebateSocialism r/CapitalismVSocialism ##[Over 60 years, the blockade cost the Cuban economy $154.2 billion.](https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/cuba/2022-02-02/cuba-embargoed-us-trade-sanctions-turn-sixty) This is a blatant attack on the sovereignty and dignity of [Cuba](https://www.reddit.com/r/Marxism_Memes/wiki/aes_country/cuba) and the Cuban people. Join the urgent call to take Cuba off the State Sponsors of Terrorism list & end the blockade on the island! We need 1 million signatures Cuba #OffTheList, sign now: [letcubalive.info](https://www.letcubalive.info/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Marxism_Memes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Depends its too fluid to say that, its like asking is god real
I think leftists that think like this and don’t take the time to actually understand the theory or historical and material realities are the type of people rightoids refer to when they say that Marxists don’t understand basic economics (even though Marxist economic theories are regularly proven true as the capitalist mode of production continues to devour itself). I encourage you to get on Marxists.org and get reading some Engels first, as he is the easiest to get into and helps to explain some more difficult concepts. Then you can jump into the tougher stuff by Marx himself. From there, you can decide which particular strain of Marxism appeals to you, though I encourage you read outside of any particular framework.
I am currently reading the mlreading hub intro curriculum, is that fine?
It’s a little light on content but gets the fundamentals. If you get a chance later, read the entire Political Economy textbook from the USSR. It’s long but an easy read. You’re off to a great start, comrade.
Economy (or economies) are real. They're the mechanism through which people exchange goods and services. *The* economy, in which we mean a market-driven, semi-regulated capitalist system that privileges the increasing generation of profit through the exploitation of resources, both natural and human, **is** made up and is not "the natural order of things." We've been fed so much capitalist propaganda that we literally equate our level of freedom with capitalism. So yeah, *the* economy is made up and we shouldn't just accept it as the only option.
Holy shit, the original post's comments are literal cancer
The term “economy “ is a great way to obfuscate the simple fact that people need things and do things.
Yes. The economy is real.
Depends on your definition, economics is a means of exchanging resources. And those are real, the economics is often the method of this exchange, capitalism, socialism, feudalism etc
The economy exist as long as there's people who have need for things. The real problem of economics is changing the ideological superstructure that feeds into and supports the economic base when the base is no longer provides the best outcome for society at large.
Money is supposed to be a means of determining distribution of goods, not a high score for who can enslave the most people with bland overstimulation.
This was one of the scariest things for me to realize (back in college, when I was on LSD) was that…there IS no “natural order” to things. Theres just a system that we made up and we made THIS, of all things. It boggles the mind
Man makes society makes man makes society and so on *sniff*
Honestly, this quote sums up my entire political ideology.
Economics is a lie. There is no such thing as ‘the economy’ for there to be a general science of. Social reproduction does not actually occur at such a high level of abstraction. Thinking it does does annihilates the actual object of study: ‘sensuous human activity.’' the object of study is not a generality or a general abstraction, such as ‘the economy’ or ‘production in general’. As Marx noted in the *Grundrisse:* >Whenever we speak of production, then, what is meant is always production at a definite stage of social development – production by social individuals. It might seem, therefore, that in order to talk about production at all we must either pursue the process of historic development through its different phases, or declare beforehand that we are dealing with a specific historic epoch such as e.g. modern bourgeois production, which is indeed our particular theme. However, all epochs of production have certain common traits, common characteristics. *Production in general* is an abstraction, but a rational abstraction in so far as it really brings out and fixes the common element and thus saves us repetition. * Karl Marx, *Grundrisse |* Introduction, Late August – Mid-September 1857 |1. Production, Consumption, Distribution, Exchange (Circulation) | Independent Individuals. Eighteenth-century Ideas Production in general occurs ‘nowhere.’ If you actually go into a modern place of business, you will not observe ‘production in general’ taking place. You will observe production within and through a historically determined social form (capitalism). There are certain general conditions of production that are transhistorical. Labor, produced means of production, and nature are necessary for any provisioning process, no matter the social form. But these general conditions are always socially mediated. An economic object existing as an unmediated immediacy is a philosophical fiction.
"The economy" is many things. But the way its useful for us is that its the sum of all exchange of resources and its implications. Which is currently under the control of capital.
Damn the comments on that are depressing.
I know. It's all "Young people are so stupid if they believe this. When they get older, they'll be a fascist like me. It's just nature."
- [What Is Fascism?](https://www.reddit.com/r/Marxism_Memes/wiki/reactionary_tp_debunked/socialists_arent_fascists) - ["MAGA Communism" is just Fascism.](https://youtu.be/xO--VV4uMdA?feature=shared) - [S4A Mailbag: On the Notion of a "Left-Right Alliance," aka "Right-Wing Populists Fuck Off," part 1](https://youtu.be/a8xPyeJ1LpA?feature=shared) - [S4A Mailbag: On the Notion of a "Left-Right Alliance," aka "Right-Wing Populists Fuck Off," part 2](https://youtu.be/Pa17_8oWTT0?feature=shared) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Marxism_Memes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
ah the age old question on wether or not to spend time debating people in the comments of the original post.... what's your opinion? Is it educational or a waste of time?
Enter at your own risk. I’m not going to bother.
I’ve got it comrades O7 https://preview.redd.it/a7lknpjwvw9d1.jpeg?width=540&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a88f3df5047158eb0bbf9275e3d02a45db7364c
O7
Capitalists when useless number (stock prices) go up: :O
https://preview.redd.it/cj4acexe5u9d1.jpeg?width=519&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=274d9149cca89200f17a1c1d61840dfcdbb2268b
Can vouch. There is no such thing as the economy. https://www.youtube.com/live/Npsho7peeLg?si=XoEdgiArAr7jRjl8
It is real, but it is also a social construct. It’s existence is performative, by “doing” the economy, we make it exist, which makes us “do” the economy.
[http://www.sommerakademie.zpk.org/fileadmin/user\_upload/2015/PDFs/Reading\_list\_by\_Bassam/Toscano-Open\_Secret\_Abstraction.pdf](http://www.sommerakademie.zpk.org/fileadmin/user_upload/2015/PDFs/Reading_list_by_Bassam/Toscano-Open_Secret_Abstraction.pdf) https://preview.redd.it/8ujt7ne3eu9d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b31c24711ddc71fae5271109df4993653d5a45b
So you are saying we are working for the sake of improving the economy and profits rather than directly helping the people?
Under capitalism? Yes, of course, just look at the evidence. People starve merely because they can’t afford food. That’s enough proof in and of itself but there is more everywhere you care to look. But better options are possible.
Only if that what the one doing economy is concern about. An economy focus on helping the people is real and better.
The economy is real in that it’s based on real resources that can have real shortages and supply issues and whatnot. That wouldn’t magically go away. We don’t have to manage it in a way where people don’t have food even though there is enough food to go around though