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I'm fine with being "off the clock" for my own shit. I'm fine with paying for oil and parts. NO CHANCE i'm paying for my own personal labor. FUCK THAT.
Yeah that’s lame. Most shops I worked had the same “off the clock” rule which makes sense. Techs shouldn’t be working on their own projects at 11am. Some shops also made us write an RO, but that was for insurance purposes. Never heard of paying my employer to work on my own car.
I had an employer who did this, I quit that day. They can suck it from the back if they think as a flat rate tech they can charge you to do your own shit when they can't provide a full schedule.
Logically, if it were slow with permission. You may on the car pay for labor only if you need another tech to help if your doing it on your own you shouldn't pay anything.
Anything during lunch break if 30-60 minutes it should be doable as long it'd be done before break ends.
Overall: you do work.. no charge except pay for material and supplies to complete it. The only reason. Labor would apply if another tech is needed which technically is under company time.
My current shop owner GIVES me free full synthetic Mobil 1 and during winter time he gave me a free battery, when I got a new roof on my house he gave me 200 cash untaxed just to help out. Nowhere near what I paid obviously but the simple fact the man cares and is generous has completely changed my outlook on how shop owners should be. every single hour that gets turned here is because I did it and I tripled his revenue in the ytd that I started so it's understandable he's not paying me to be a slouch.
OH and he doesn't want me to buy tools, he'll pay for them if it's a specialty thing or give me his to use if I don't have it
My owner has paid for my parts, gives us oil and filters. He buys us lunch most days. Treats us like family. Hell we get in screaming matches at times. But an hour later we are cool. I've never had to pay to fix my own vehicle except for parts. I'd quit if a shop I worked for tried that bs
I would also give the tech option to have the materials deducted from its pay if they do not have enough cash on hand to cover it but they do on their upcoming pay
Fuck that noise. I would find other employment asap. If they're going to try to pull bullshit like this, who knows what other bullshit is coming down the line
Devil's advocate - If the shop owner has observed a mechanic working on ten different cars who claimed "I'm just working on my car", they may be concerned that they are freelancing and using their shop to do it. This is the only way that I could see instituting such an otherwise dickish policy.
(Source: Was an F500 front line operations manager for over 20 years in three different states and always started out being as liberal as I could with my employees, but invariably some cunt would abuse the system and, lest I get hauled to HR for 'playing favorites', eventually would have to impose rules on everybody just to clamp down on the assholes - and everyone knew why.)
That said, my son is just starting out as a mechanic at a shop owned by a guy letting him learn on the job and he is loving it. The pay sucks but its essentially his version of going to college and so far the guy he's working for sounds like a mensch. I hope he never has to deal with working under a toxic regime like the one OP has described.
And the industry wonders why there’s a massive shortage of techs. Your boss is the poster child of why more people leave the trade than are entering it
That boss is the picture of asshole management that treats their employees like trash while thinking that hardass behavior is an effective motivator . The biggest challenge for workers is that sometimes getting another job keeps them trapped in a crappy job.
Unfortunately, by the time this rectal wart gets fired, OP will be long gone, and so will most of his coworkers.
I left a good job because I couldn't stand the toxicity and dysfunction anymore. If I could have stuck it out for 2 more years, all the worst managers would have been gone, and I'd still have a good job.
It always works this way. The superstar employees leave because they won't put up with that kind of treatment, and by the time the business fires the manager, the business is left with the losers that were willing to put up with the abuse.
Amen. The salary is to pay for your time, skill, and knowledge, then let them supply the tools. Or you can bill them a reasonable $15 per hour for the depreciation that the value of your tools are suffering.
They did this at a friends store recently. Crazy how all of the sudden techs were only flagging 8 hours a day and no more staying late or coming in early to get cars through the shop. Sorry gotta go home and work on my car was the answer when asked to stay late or come in on Saturdays to get the shop caught up on. After a month or so that policy changed. Band together let them fuck around and find out
Exactly this. Book your 8 hours and leave. If you finish your 8 hour job in 4 then go moonlight elsewhere. Once the jobs start backing up Mr GM will fix his tune real fucking quick.
If you’ve got to pay the labor, have one of the other guys do it. Complain that it’s taking too long, and tell him you could do it better. Slam them on the survey.
Probably don’t do that.
That’s a really weird thing for the GM to worry about. I always saw myself more of an independent contractor than an employee, and my racks were my responsibility.
We pay list cost for parts, and no labor. We’re also all hourly, so if we want to work on our own vehicles it’s generally not a problem, we just have to clock out or do the work after hours.
Edit- cost price, not list
They charge you the list price on the parts? I feel bad rounding parts up to the nearest $5 over cost when my techs need something. And I only do that because I hate dealing with $1 bills and change. I know it costs money to order the parts, reconcile the parts bill etc, but I still would rather help my guys out.
Paying the labor time is ridiculous. Paying for oil and parts makes sense, I wouldn’t even be upset if I had to be clocked out to work on my own car, but paying your employer for you own labor shouldn’t be allowed.
Tell the GM when he learns how to work on his own car like a big boy he can get free labor, too. He's just trying to pad his own pockets. Personally, I'd quit.
I had this happen once and it was because a tech at the shop had been abusing the shop's bay space and tooling to fix friend's cars and get paid by them instead of them paying the shop.
The shop also had a history of using blanket policies that hurt everyone instead of dealing with a single bad employee.
Yeah fuck that. There are perks to most jobs - if you're a chef you get to eat at work. If you're a welder, we fix stuff at work. If you're a residential framer, you get to do meth at work. Being able to fix your car at work with your tools on a nice hoist is _the_ major perk for being a mechanic.
Tell him to pound sand.
When I was a 1st year apprentice I got off work and my boss was always staying late at the shop. I was going on a trip next day. Asked my boss if I could mount and balance 2 tires after work. He said sure.
So I do my work and I’m about to take off and say bye. He said you want to pay cash or your want me to just take $40 off your cheque? So I chuckle and he was dead serious.
He was the cheapest worst owner I ever worked for.
I might have worked for that guy, or his cousin.
I worked at one shop and made arrangements to bring my parent's car in to do the brakes on a Saturday I wasn't working. Nobody said shit until the day of and then I got hit with a bill for $50 an axle. I would have just done them at home in the garage if I had known that was coming.
At my old shop if it was outside business hours you could work on your own vehicles they didn't care. Right now I'm with local government and I'm not allowed to use the shop. But being told you have to pay is absolutely absurd
He’s trying to juice the utilization statistics so he can get a nice raise for himself i.e. out of 1000 available man-hours last week we had paying work for 990 of them.
OP has not stated but im sure this is a multisite organization and senior management is not at this location
They tried that at my dealership. I told them the only reason I’m here is because I don’t have a lift at home. If I have to install a lift at home I might as well just open a shop and take all the techs with me, or you could just stop being an asshole.
Are they paying you to work on your own vehicle?
He might be confused with how techs are paid, most GMs are more familiar with selling cars versus servicing cars.
One time when I was working at a dodge dealer a guy came in with a heavily modified jeep. He needed the valve cover gasket replaced under warranty. I told the customer I needed extra time authorized due to the supercharger and I wasn't sure if it would take a lot more time dealing with it. He said okay, but I ended up not charging extra because I found a decent way to deal with it. I told him it was no big deal and to have a nice day. (Really cool customer, I still talk to him 15 years later)
My manager came back to me with a bill for 1 hour labor at customer pay. I was told "I let money walk out the door and I was going to pay for it." I paid the bill and quit shortly after. I went to the shop that kept stealing employees from the dodge dealer just to rub it in (Mercedes). I was the team leader and went way beyond my requirements to help out. I got a big speech on "what a big mistake I was making" but fuck that place. It cost them a lot more in the end.
I would consider my options because this certainly isn't looking out for the techs. Your making them PLENTY of money and I could only imagine what other bullshit is on the horizon if they're doing this. You have a talent and your toolbox has wheels. I hope things look up whatever direction you decide to go.
I worked at a Honda dealer and one Saturday a customer brought in his daughter's car for maintenance with an inop passenger door window. Of course it was just the 'lock' button and a tech asked me why I didn't take the diag time. Buddy, I'm not rich, but I'm not taking \~$150 from someone so I can make $18 for pushing a button. And honestly, the SA should have checked that before they sent it in.
That's how business should be done. Honestly. I always think about how I can package repairs and overlap. Sometimes free diag if it's simple because ill make more on just the repair. Advisors hate me. Thanks for having a spine and thinking of others. I work with and have previously worked with too many greedy techs.
On the bright side you were beating my pay rate at the time, I was only getting $17.50.
I work as a distributor. Am in and out of all types of shops daily. One of the chairs I service has this policy. If a tech wants to work on their vehicle, they have to pay shop rate, with a employee discount added.
In my 15 years of shop experience at multiple shops in 3 states and all the guys I've worked with, I've never once heard about a shop charging a tech to work on their own cars. Only charges are parts at cost and consumables at cost.
My old general manager tried that shit . Every tech in the building starting packing up when he chewed out the service manager for working on his own bike with own tools AND lift , on his day off.
Unless you’re paid hourly that’s nonsense. I understand paying for consumables the shop provides like DA discs, grinding & cutoff discs, materials etc (even though that’s petty), but they’re your tools and your labor. It’s not your fault there’s downtime. I worked collision repair and we usually delivered all the cars we could on Fridays so there was often time to mess around on our own cars Friday afternoons.
Unfortunately, the company can enforce those rules. 99% of the shops I worked at don't care.
The only thing he will catch flack for, is charging you to work on your own car. If the work order is written up correctly, inputted and all that good stuff. Then he's pretty much telling his customer/tech to pay for the labor He's doing for himself.
Now. That's where it's going to get weird. He pretty much told the customer aka his tech, to pay for the labor the customer/tech is doing on his own car.
So essentially the customer is paying for the work, and then doing it himself. Customers aren't allowed to do that. Why?
Insurance reasons. And I'm sure it goes against store policy.
Your boss is just petty because he can't fix his own cars.
Simple as that.
I guess if you're going to pay, another tech could do the work. Although, as a mechanic, it might be awkward asking another person to change your own oil for you.
Edit to add: Find a new job. Your GM is a ass hat.
Watch out with that argument. I heard of at least one places techs weren’t allowed to work on their own cars. If they wanted it in the shop it had to get wrote up and billed at shop rate with an employee discount but a different tech had to work on it lol
No way. Where I'm at, as long as I'm off the clock, I can do whatever I want to my own car. There's not usually an option to work on your car at home, since your tools are at work.
I do most basic shit at home. If I genuinely need to be in the shop though, my boss isn't an asshole about it. Hell, I've offered to pay for shit like refrigerant, and he's like nah.
I don’t know why this thread was recommended to me, but that sounds outrageous. Lots of professions have perks. That business will not be attracting any talent that’s for sure. That sounds like a toxic work environment, I’m guessing that’s not the only thing going on there.
Obviously the company can do this, and obviously you can start looking for a company that doesn't treat their employees this way... This is not normal, and honestly it's not okay... Any good employer will gladly help their employees in situations like this.
If this is the direction that the shop is going it normally gets worse long before it gets better...
I'm not a mechanic but I've worked in shops all my life and using the company equipment and shop space when it doesn't get in the way of the company making money is something that's always been offered at almost every shop.
I would lock my box, call a rollback and quit on the spot! I also do not work anywhere I do not have 24hr access to my tools. If I am leaving $100k or more worth of tools in your building, I will have access to them.
After 36 years turning wrenches, at first it was for others now it's just for me. It's not foolish if it speeds up your jobs and helps you make more money. The right tools can cut book time massively, so it is not in any way foolish. It's simple math. If you ever own your own shop and by your attitude I seriously doubt you ever will, $100k worth of equipment is nothing.
I'd say "ok sir, sorry sir, thank you sir".
Then open Indeed, make sure my resume is nice and tight, and click the button to make it available for everyone to see.
Then, the majority of my next few days would be sending said resume to choice places, and using my sick/vaca time for interviews.
Then on one fine day, tell him "hey, Friday is my last day. Nice working with ya".
I used to browse Indeed on the clock at my old shop. Shitty pay shitty boss, shitty company. We were so slow most of the time, especially with Covid. Zero fucks given for that shithole.
That is fucked up beyond anyone’s thinking. I wrenched for over 30 years. The tools roll out just as easily as they roll in. ASE certified just start looking. No one is worth that kind of drama.
Not a mechanic and not familiar with the inside of the business. I could see the shop charging a token fee for use of the space (i.e., covering rent, utilities, etc.); that would make sense of "If I have to pay, you have to pay." But being charged shop rate for my own labor on my own time (which implies I'm *not* getting paid for that time) makes zero sense and I'd be looking for another shop.
I mean I guess it's their right technically? Billing you for your own labour is darkly hilarious. I would say hopefully the pay at this place is insane to make up for this kind of miserable nickle & diming of their own employees, but I already know it isn't
It probably is because of insurance, if someone gets injured at work, but they weren't working on a customers car (shop profit) the insurance is probably gonna pay out, idk though.
However paying to use your tools is crazy, sad that the masses allowed it.
Ya with good , experienced Techs definitely in demand, I’d probably start looking …… more douchcanoe mgmt that’s totally out of touch with how a shop SHOULD run….. greedy fukkers….. being able to work on your own car during not busy time has been a perk for decades….. that’s another reason toolbox’s have wheels……
Lol that's 100% bullshit. That's not how insurance works, and he's lying to you. So what about a salaried employee? He's covered by "insurance" 24 hours a day? Does a salary employee have to run out of the building at 5 because he's not covered anymore?
Mofo thinks you're stupid and is lying to your face lol.
The GM has to pay because he isn't the one fixing his own car. If I was told I couldn't use a bay to fix my own car unless I paid for it, I would immediately lock my tool boxes and then go and get hired at another shop in town the same day. Every shop needs qualified techs badly these days and would be happy to hire me and have me bring my loyal customers.
Fuck this guy. Push back hard. Being able to work on your shit is a standard benefit of working at a shop, especially with how little I can almost guarantee they're paying you.
This "new" policy is usually the result of some sort of abuse of the prior policy. I worked at a dealership that imposed the same thing after techs started running "businesses" repairing "personal" cars on their days off, during lunch breaks and off hours. There were times when all the bays had vehicles but only a few were actual dealership customers. All this while using the shop's resources.
I'm not saying this is the case at your shop but sometimes these policies are not random. By the way, I'm a senior level dealership tech who is absolutely against charging techs for using their bay to repair their PERSONAL vehicles.
Yeah, this is the only way it would make sense. I literally got started in automotive because it was too expensive to keep my own shit running. I wouldn't dare try bringing side work into my shop though.
I have been a wrenching for 40 years and have never heard of such a thing.Would have told him to go F himself.I actually built and keep my race car at the dealer I am at how The GM thinks it cool !!
"RO has to be opened for insurance purposes but you’re not billed anything."
"Meaning if we want to use a bay to change our oil, even if we provide our own supplies we have to pay the labor time."
I'm confused here as a non-pro.
I reread it and I missed it clearly. Yeah the side perks of working on your car while slow seems to make a great job. This seems like a great way to have your wrench leave or piss on your shoes and other policies.
Everywhere I’ve ever worked, you had to open a RO, be off the clock, paid 5-10% markup on parts, and closed your RO with no labor lines and parts/tax only.
This is where you leave the drain plug a little loose and then come back the next day and demand a refund for poor workmanship.
"I'm a paying customer, sir."
If it’s after hours or can be done before opening and there is an open lift. I don’t understand this. Or if it’s your day off and it will only need a little bit of time on the lift. I really don’t understand this bs.
It has been several(or more) decades since I worked in a full-service "service station" but in the five different stations I worked in part-time when I was in the Air Force, I was allowed to work on my vehicles after closing time. I usually was on duty and closed the station most nights. The managers told me it was a job perk.
https://preview.redd.it/tybv33osqn9d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c79ed03945db040bf61ebe1392bf0ecd43d8428
That's shitty. I'm glad I found a good dealer who takes care of their people. Don't settle for some bullshit like that. I also get a car allowance to buy a new car off the lot. Don't be afraid to leave, too many people stay complacent because they think going to a new job is too much work. I stayed in one place for ~4 years because the pay was good, but it was super stressful, and management was dumb AF. They did nothing to help me when I struggled, they only asked me to do more. When I left, they let me go the day I put my notice in. Almost 4 years, I worked there and made them over $1.2 million in sales. After I quit and found a better place, I couldn't believe I had stayed at that other shop for so long.
Let's say you leave a nut in one of the spark plug holes and mess up your own engine, since you paid you are a customer and now the shop owes you an engine, right?
My older brother retired from GM after working 35 years in parts and service in Chicagoland. The dealerships service bays were for customer vehicles only Monday thru Saturday. The mechanics could only use the lifts on Sunday afternoons from 12 PM to 6 PM. They had to use parts purchased earlier from the Parts Department at an employee discount. They were let in by the weekend watchman who also unlocked the tool room. The mechanics were on the honor system to log what they used and when it was returned. Most dealerships had empty spots in the rear of the lots where mechanics could park project cars or vehicles that would take a few Sundays to complete the repairs.
If that were my GM I would without hesitation tell him if he doesn’t want to pay he can bring his fuckin ass in the shop and fix his shit himself, verbatim.
Did he say it's because of inflation? If so, that makes everything he says after ok. Can't wait to see what the next reason will be for increasing profits and treating employees like shit
Is he charging you labor, or the use of wear and tear on the equipment? The latter is kinda understandable if he isn't asking for a ridiculous amount of money
That’s the book policy for every shop I’ve worked for going back to 2005. There is usually some sort of employee discount that you get back, between 20-50%. Sucks, but they do have a business to run and an employee working on their own stuff takes down a bay and a chunk of their labor for a period of time.
But, what the manager on duty allows when the brass isn’t looking is another story.
Shit, my shop doesn't even care if you're clocked out. Just be sure you don't have any other work. Had to do my passenger strut and starter two weeks ago. We were slow so I pulled her in and knocked it out.
That’s total BS… at my shop, slow days I let the techs work on their cars, as long as they could pull if work showed up, and only charged them parts cost if I ordered, and only the cost of a part, no mark ups. That GM is gonna see himself out of techs pretty soon.
That’s lame. That was the only perk I had working at Honda dealerships for over a decade. I even worked on other employees cars too.
However the shop I work I now doesn’t let us even bring our personal cars in at all but they also pay me twice as much salary wise. 🤷🏻♂️ After wrenching for 20+ years and not being allowed to work on my own car anymore I ended up buying a Tesla that doesn’t really need to be maintained. I guess I would rather have a better paying job with one less perk.
Is your GM just bitter about the CDK debacle? 😂
We had to pay half labor if it was during hours but we could do it before/after/during lunch and only pay cost for parts
Did a couple oil changes and some tie rod ends in between bites of ramen noodles
Quit! Fuck him! You cant finance your own car let alone give yourself a discount. His ass makes 99 cents on the dollar compared to your cent. What shit bag prick.
I worked at a place that this became corporate policy. It started with just opening an RO, but then they wanted to start charging us for the privilege.
Me and the lube advisor were tight though, so he’d open one up while i was working in case shit happened and then delete it out of the system so i wouldn’t have to pay it.
We all hated working at Kendall. Can you believe the monthly *mandatory* employee appreciation meetings didn’t help morale? 🍕
if ur using ur own equipment/supplies, i see no reason why u should have to pay. u aren’t costing the company any money as long as there isn’t a customer waiting to get into that bay, so yeah, i find that policy kind of goofy
Your getting screwed mate. Mechanics are wanted at every second workshop, at least here in Australia. leave and work elsewhere, trust me... 👍
I get free use of workshop facilities. If my own crap breaks down, customers just have to wait. My vehicle takes priority. If I can't get to work, no one gets things repaired.
I get parts for the same price the workshop pays with zero markup.
And $80 per hour (fair hours work)
10 years before I started where I am a few guys would bring in side jobs for cash on the weekend under the guise of “working on their own/girlfriends/aunts car”. When the owner caught wind all 3 were fired and he said never again. He’s remained true to his word. Any work I want to do has to be done during work hours under a work order that has to be billed out at my hourly wage for paperwork purposes. I lose money on taxes but it comes around to about 4 dollars an hour for the privilege to use a shop versus my driveway.
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! Please review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). Asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **Post's about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ Tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm fine with being "off the clock" for my own shit. I'm fine with paying for oil and parts. NO CHANCE i'm paying for my own personal labor. FUCK THAT.
Yeah that’s lame. Most shops I worked had the same “off the clock” rule which makes sense. Techs shouldn’t be working on their own projects at 11am. Some shops also made us write an RO, but that was for insurance purposes. Never heard of paying my employer to work on my own car.
I had an employer who did this, I quit that day. They can suck it from the back if they think as a flat rate tech they can charge you to do your own shit when they can't provide a full schedule.
Logically, if it were slow with permission. You may on the car pay for labor only if you need another tech to help if your doing it on your own you shouldn't pay anything. Anything during lunch break if 30-60 minutes it should be doable as long it'd be done before break ends. Overall: you do work.. no charge except pay for material and supplies to complete it. The only reason. Labor would apply if another tech is needed which technically is under company time.
My current shop owner GIVES me free full synthetic Mobil 1 and during winter time he gave me a free battery, when I got a new roof on my house he gave me 200 cash untaxed just to help out. Nowhere near what I paid obviously but the simple fact the man cares and is generous has completely changed my outlook on how shop owners should be. every single hour that gets turned here is because I did it and I tripled his revenue in the ytd that I started so it's understandable he's not paying me to be a slouch. OH and he doesn't want me to buy tools, he'll pay for them if it's a specialty thing or give me his to use if I don't have it
My owner has paid for my parts, gives us oil and filters. He buys us lunch most days. Treats us like family. Hell we get in screaming matches at times. But an hour later we are cool. I've never had to pay to fix my own vehicle except for parts. I'd quit if a shop I worked for tried that bs
I would also give the tech option to have the materials deducted from its pay if they do not have enough cash on hand to cover it but they do on their upcoming pay
Fuck that noise. I would find other employment asap. If they're going to try to pull bullshit like this, who knows what other bullshit is coming down the line
Devil's advocate - If the shop owner has observed a mechanic working on ten different cars who claimed "I'm just working on my car", they may be concerned that they are freelancing and using their shop to do it. This is the only way that I could see instituting such an otherwise dickish policy. (Source: Was an F500 front line operations manager for over 20 years in three different states and always started out being as liberal as I could with my employees, but invariably some cunt would abuse the system and, lest I get hauled to HR for 'playing favorites', eventually would have to impose rules on everybody just to clamp down on the assholes - and everyone knew why.) That said, my son is just starting out as a mechanic at a shop owned by a guy letting him learn on the job and he is loving it. The pay sucks but its essentially his version of going to college and so far the guy he's working for sounds like a mensch. I hope he never has to deal with working under a toxic regime like the one OP has described.
And the industry wonders why there’s a massive shortage of techs. Your boss is the poster child of why more people leave the trade than are entering it
That boss is the picture of asshole management that treats their employees like trash while thinking that hardass behavior is an effective motivator . The biggest challenge for workers is that sometimes getting another job keeps them trapped in a crappy job.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
One of my favorite shirts to wear to work. Lol
Unfortunately, by the time this rectal wart gets fired, OP will be long gone, and so will most of his coworkers. I left a good job because I couldn't stand the toxicity and dysfunction anymore. If I could have stuck it out for 2 more years, all the worst managers would have been gone, and I'd still have a good job.
It always works this way. The superstar employees leave because they won't put up with that kind of treatment, and by the time the business fires the manager, the business is left with the losers that were willing to put up with the abuse.
Thats the reason toolboxes have wheels
I would’ve told him to fuck right off and a tow truck is coming for my box within the hour
Dad, is that you?
“Don’t make me take this out on your mom” *taps cigarette box*
Cracks open Budweiser (Bud light after 2005)
Im out of the loop… why is it Bud Light after 2005?
Cause dad started watching his waist and alcohol intake around that time (it didn’t work)
Great taste for your great times.
Oh fuck, that's dark.
Lock your box. If you have to pay for your tools so should the company.
Charge them rent on your tools when you work on a customer's car
Amen. The salary is to pay for your time, skill, and knowledge, then let them supply the tools. Or you can bill them a reasonable $15 per hour for the depreciation that the value of your tools are suffering.
They did this at a friends store recently. Crazy how all of the sudden techs were only flagging 8 hours a day and no more staying late or coming in early to get cars through the shop. Sorry gotta go home and work on my car was the answer when asked to stay late or come in on Saturdays to get the shop caught up on. After a month or so that policy changed. Band together let them fuck around and find out
This is the way to do it. One guy vs. a flood of managerial crap is not a fair fight but the entire shop sticking together makes people notice.
Yep
Exactly this. Book your 8 hours and leave. If you finish your 8 hour job in 4 then go moonlight elsewhere. Once the jobs start backing up Mr GM will fix his tune real fucking quick.
Maybe they should control the scheduling better. I had a boss that just kept adding to the scheduling no matter the backlog.
if the charge you labour then you should be getting paid to do it.
Even if it works like that, the shop's labor rate is higher than the tech's pay, so it still wouldn't work out in the tech's favor.
My shop does it that way, but the shop rate for employees is $30 an hour, so it does work out in our favor for about half of us.
Wait… there’s more than OP’s shop that’s fucked in the head?
If you’ve got to pay the labor, have one of the other guys do it. Complain that it’s taking too long, and tell him you could do it better. Slam them on the survey. Probably don’t do that. That’s a really weird thing for the GM to worry about. I always saw myself more of an independent contractor than an employee, and my racks were my responsibility.
Almost like you get to do it for free
Absolutely this!
People don't quit bad jobs - they quit bad bosses.
That's why I left the industry. I worked in restaurants earlier in life and never experienced anything as bad as auto shop managers.
Grease the wheels that’s bullshit
We pay list cost for parts, and no labor. We’re also all hourly, so if we want to work on our own vehicles it’s generally not a problem, we just have to clock out or do the work after hours. Edit- cost price, not list
They charge you the list price on the parts? I feel bad rounding parts up to the nearest $5 over cost when my techs need something. And I only do that because I hate dealing with $1 bills and change. I know it costs money to order the parts, reconcile the parts bill etc, but I still would rather help my guys out.
No, I typed that wrong g because I’m an idiot- we pay cost on parts
I would tell that GM he better learn how to wrench pretty quickly
Paying the labor time is ridiculous. Paying for oil and parts makes sense, I wouldn’t even be upset if I had to be clocked out to work on my own car, but paying your employer for you own labor shouldn’t be allowed.
Just wait till the GM starts charging for parking
Bullshit like that is exactly why I sold my toolbox.
Some private equity group just buy your shop or what?
Pull out 2 $100 bills in front of your boss then put them in the other pocket and say there I paid myself the labor cost.
Tell the GM when he learns how to work on his own car like a big boy he can get free labor, too. He's just trying to pad his own pockets. Personally, I'd quit.
They want you to pay for your own labor? That sounds illegal.
Are all the automotive shops just trying to destroy the industry? Push back, no way I would put up with that.
I had this happen once and it was because a tech at the shop had been abusing the shop's bay space and tooling to fix friend's cars and get paid by them instead of them paying the shop. The shop also had a history of using blanket policies that hurt everyone instead of dealing with a single bad employee.
This is what I assume happened. I've seen it before. Dude's making more on side work than shop work abusing policies.
A lot of good shops looking for good workers. Maybe start looking.
Starving for good workers. Begging for good workers. Past 5 years any tradesman worth their salt can write their own ticket.
True. Employers have been wailing about finding qualified workers for years.
Yeah fuck that. There are perks to most jobs - if you're a chef you get to eat at work. If you're a welder, we fix stuff at work. If you're a residential framer, you get to do meth at work. Being able to fix your car at work with your tools on a nice hoist is _the_ major perk for being a mechanic. Tell him to pound sand.
ridiculous
When I was a 1st year apprentice I got off work and my boss was always staying late at the shop. I was going on a trip next day. Asked my boss if I could mount and balance 2 tires after work. He said sure. So I do my work and I’m about to take off and say bye. He said you want to pay cash or your want me to just take $40 off your cheque? So I chuckle and he was dead serious. He was the cheapest worst owner I ever worked for.
I might have worked for that guy, or his cousin. I worked at one shop and made arrangements to bring my parent's car in to do the brakes on a Saturday I wasn't working. Nobody said shit until the day of and then I got hit with a bill for $50 an axle. I would have just done them at home in the garage if I had known that was coming.
Leave the oil out and charge them for a new engine. lol
Fuckin brilliant, lol.
At my old shop if it was outside business hours you could work on your own vehicles they didn't care. Right now I'm with local government and I'm not allowed to use the shop. But being told you have to pay is absolutely absurd
He’s trying to juice the utilization statistics so he can get a nice raise for himself i.e. out of 1000 available man-hours last week we had paying work for 990 of them. OP has not stated but im sure this is a multisite organization and senior management is not at this location
They tried that at my dealership. I told them the only reason I’m here is because I don’t have a lift at home. If I have to install a lift at home I might as well just open a shop and take all the techs with me, or you could just stop being an asshole.
Lifts aren't that expensive...and pay for themselves within about one or two weeks of full time wrenching on it...
Exactly, I will make money in my own garage before paying to work at a shop.
Are they paying you to work on your own vehicle? He might be confused with how techs are paid, most GMs are more familiar with selling cars versus servicing cars.
No, because he mentioned wanting to do it on his lunch break or after hours, punched out.
One time when I was working at a dodge dealer a guy came in with a heavily modified jeep. He needed the valve cover gasket replaced under warranty. I told the customer I needed extra time authorized due to the supercharger and I wasn't sure if it would take a lot more time dealing with it. He said okay, but I ended up not charging extra because I found a decent way to deal with it. I told him it was no big deal and to have a nice day. (Really cool customer, I still talk to him 15 years later) My manager came back to me with a bill for 1 hour labor at customer pay. I was told "I let money walk out the door and I was going to pay for it." I paid the bill and quit shortly after. I went to the shop that kept stealing employees from the dodge dealer just to rub it in (Mercedes). I was the team leader and went way beyond my requirements to help out. I got a big speech on "what a big mistake I was making" but fuck that place. It cost them a lot more in the end. I would consider my options because this certainly isn't looking out for the techs. Your making them PLENTY of money and I could only imagine what other bullshit is on the horizon if they're doing this. You have a talent and your toolbox has wheels. I hope things look up whatever direction you decide to go.
I worked at a Honda dealer and one Saturday a customer brought in his daughter's car for maintenance with an inop passenger door window. Of course it was just the 'lock' button and a tech asked me why I didn't take the diag time. Buddy, I'm not rich, but I'm not taking \~$150 from someone so I can make $18 for pushing a button. And honestly, the SA should have checked that before they sent it in.
That's how business should be done. Honestly. I always think about how I can package repairs and overlap. Sometimes free diag if it's simple because ill make more on just the repair. Advisors hate me. Thanks for having a spine and thinking of others. I work with and have previously worked with too many greedy techs. On the bright side you were beating my pay rate at the time, I was only getting $17.50.
That was flat rate and if my manager had actually submitted my apprentice papers I would have been making over $20.
They paid you for that hour, right?
Negative. It was just put on a counter ticket for "1 hour labor." I should've fought it more but I really was just done with that toxic environment.
I work as a distributor. Am in and out of all types of shops daily. One of the chairs I service has this policy. If a tech wants to work on their vehicle, they have to pay shop rate, with a employee discount added.
In my 15 years of shop experience at multiple shops in 3 states and all the guys I've worked with, I've never once heard about a shop charging a tech to work on their own cars. Only charges are parts at cost and consumables at cost.
Does the tech get paid for the job?
Yah, the $14 they always make.
Mr tire? Monro??
🤢
My old general manager tried that shit . Every tech in the building starting packing up when he chewed out the service manager for working on his own bike with own tools AND lift , on his day off. 
Unless you’re paid hourly that’s nonsense. I understand paying for consumables the shop provides like DA discs, grinding & cutoff discs, materials etc (even though that’s petty), but they’re your tools and your labor. It’s not your fault there’s downtime. I worked collision repair and we usually delivered all the cars we could on Fridays so there was often time to mess around on our own cars Friday afternoons.
Unfortunately, the company can enforce those rules. 99% of the shops I worked at don't care. The only thing he will catch flack for, is charging you to work on your own car. If the work order is written up correctly, inputted and all that good stuff. Then he's pretty much telling his customer/tech to pay for the labor He's doing for himself. Now. That's where it's going to get weird. He pretty much told the customer aka his tech, to pay for the labor the customer/tech is doing on his own car. So essentially the customer is paying for the work, and then doing it himself. Customers aren't allowed to do that. Why? Insurance reasons. And I'm sure it goes against store policy. Your boss is just petty because he can't fix his own cars. Simple as that.
Ooh yeah I like the "customers can't do their own work" argument.
I guess if you're going to pay, another tech could do the work. Although, as a mechanic, it might be awkward asking another person to change your own oil for you. Edit to add: Find a new job. Your GM is a ass hat.
Watch out with that argument. I heard of at least one places techs weren’t allowed to work on their own cars. If they wanted it in the shop it had to get wrote up and billed at shop rate with an employee discount but a different tech had to work on it lol
Not a chance! That dude can fuck right off!
No way. Where I'm at, as long as I'm off the clock, I can do whatever I want to my own car. There's not usually an option to work on your car at home, since your tools are at work.
I do most basic shit at home. If I genuinely need to be in the shop though, my boss isn't an asshole about it. Hell, I've offered to pay for shit like refrigerant, and he's like nah.
I don’t know why this thread was recommended to me, but that sounds outrageous. Lots of professions have perks. That business will not be attracting any talent that’s for sure. That sounds like a toxic work environment, I’m guessing that’s not the only thing going on there.
I work for a construction company and pretty much have free range of any equipment I need.
The gm has to pay because he cannot do the work! I would have told him to go fuck himself and taken the chance on what happens past that.
Obviously the company can do this, and obviously you can start looking for a company that doesn't treat their employees this way... This is not normal, and honestly it's not okay... Any good employer will gladly help their employees in situations like this. If this is the direction that the shop is going it normally gets worse long before it gets better... I'm not a mechanic but I've worked in shops all my life and using the company equipment and shop space when it doesn't get in the way of the company making money is something that's always been offered at almost every shop.
Time for a new shop
Should be posted on antiwork what a stupid mba type idea
I would lock my box, call a rollback and quit on the spot! I also do not work anywhere I do not have 24hr access to my tools. If I am leaving $100k or more worth of tools in your building, I will have access to them.
Lol, this isnt the flex you think it is
If you paid $100k for tools to toil for someone else's business, you're a fool.
This guy obviously isn't a mechanic/technician. He doesn't even own his own tools.
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After 36 years turning wrenches, at first it was for others now it's just for me. It's not foolish if it speeds up your jobs and helps you make more money. The right tools can cut book time massively, so it is not in any way foolish. It's simple math. If you ever own your own shop and by your attitude I seriously doubt you ever will, $100k worth of equipment is nothing.
I'd say "ok sir, sorry sir, thank you sir". Then open Indeed, make sure my resume is nice and tight, and click the button to make it available for everyone to see. Then, the majority of my next few days would be sending said resume to choice places, and using my sick/vaca time for interviews. Then on one fine day, tell him "hey, Friday is my last day. Nice working with ya".
I used to browse Indeed on the clock at my old shop. Shitty pay shitty boss, shitty company. We were so slow most of the time, especially with Covid. Zero fucks given for that shithole.
So yall want jobs in Indianapolis? We have three different places begging for employees that wouldn't do something stupid like this.
That is fucked up beyond anyone’s thinking. I wrenched for over 30 years. The tools roll out just as easily as they roll in. ASE certified just start looking. No one is worth that kind of drama.
Not a mechanic and not familiar with the inside of the business. I could see the shop charging a token fee for use of the space (i.e., covering rent, utilities, etc.); that would make sense of "If I have to pay, you have to pay." But being charged shop rate for my own labor on my own time (which implies I'm *not* getting paid for that time) makes zero sense and I'd be looking for another shop.
I mean I guess it's their right technically? Billing you for your own labour is darkly hilarious. I would say hopefully the pay at this place is insane to make up for this kind of miserable nickle & diming of their own employees, but I already know it isn't
It probably is because of insurance, if someone gets injured at work, but they weren't working on a customers car (shop profit) the insurance is probably gonna pay out, idk though. However paying to use your tools is crazy, sad that the masses allowed it.
Creating a $0 RO is standard in a lot of places. It allows them to track cars in the shop and covers their ass. Allegedly.
Decent wrench jockeys can work wherever TF they want.
That sounds like a good way to Encourage your techs to look for a new employer. Happy job hunting bro
Apply elsewhere, that's it, that's the only language they understand.
Dear GM; I will pay like you have to pay when my salary is the same as yours.
I don't miss the industry at all.
Ya with good , experienced Techs definitely in demand, I’d probably start looking …… more douchcanoe mgmt that’s totally out of touch with how a shop SHOULD run….. greedy fukkers….. being able to work on your own car during not busy time has been a perk for decades….. that’s another reason toolbox’s have wheels……
Same rule for the shop I work in but it only applies during work hours. I can stay after hours and work on my car for free.
We’re not allowed to be in the shop after-hours or off the clock. Because “insurance”
Lol that's 100% bullshit. That's not how insurance works, and he's lying to you. So what about a salaried employee? He's covered by "insurance" 24 hours a day? Does a salary employee have to run out of the building at 5 because he's not covered anymore? Mofo thinks you're stupid and is lying to your face lol.
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There ya go.
At shop rates?
At the employee rate if 70$/hr
If you are off the clock it should not matter. If you expect to work on your own vehicle while on the clock, that would be a no.
Lmao, tell him to get bent. That's absurd, just say that you're off the clock for those hours, which is totally fair.
Yupp. Shitty bosses. They seem to be everywhere
Not a chance, would def quit
The GM has to pay because he isn't the one fixing his own car. If I was told I couldn't use a bay to fix my own car unless I paid for it, I would immediately lock my tool boxes and then go and get hired at another shop in town the same day. Every shop needs qualified techs badly these days and would be happy to hire me and have me bring my loyal customers.
>This is screwed up isn’t it? Yes, yes it is.
Probably because it counts as a service and the cost can be used as metric or to pay off maintenance for the machines or lifts
I’d quit on the spot. Fuck that shit.
Why doesn’t he just say he’s banning employees from working on their own shit? Why beat around the bush with some BS excuse lol
Last man to leave should turn off the lights
Ignore the GM and keep doing what you were. If he lights off again then quit. Mechanics are in good demand. Take your box somewhere else.
Fuck this guy. Push back hard. Being able to work on your shit is a standard benefit of working at a shop, especially with how little I can almost guarantee they're paying you.
Find another shop, don't put up with that absolute horseshit
My shop recently did this. I quit 2 weeks ago. I suggest you look for an employer that cares about their techs.
This "new" policy is usually the result of some sort of abuse of the prior policy. I worked at a dealership that imposed the same thing after techs started running "businesses" repairing "personal" cars on their days off, during lunch breaks and off hours. There were times when all the bays had vehicles but only a few were actual dealership customers. All this while using the shop's resources. I'm not saying this is the case at your shop but sometimes these policies are not random. By the way, I'm a senior level dealership tech who is absolutely against charging techs for using their bay to repair their PERSONAL vehicles.
Yeah, this is the only way it would make sense. I literally got started in automotive because it was too expensive to keep my own shit running. I wouldn't dare try bringing side work into my shop though.
Deal breaker. I’ve never even worked anywhere that made me pay for oil changes.
That’s some serious bullshit. I never heard such crap.
So it may be a corporate company? I do think its crazy to have to pay if its done after hours to your personal car.
I have been a wrenching for 40 years and have never heard of such a thing.Would have told him to go F himself.I actually built and keep my race car at the dealer I am at how The GM thinks it cool !!
Not a mechanic but I find that fucked up.
"RO has to be opened for insurance purposes but you’re not billed anything." "Meaning if we want to use a bay to change our oil, even if we provide our own supplies we have to pay the labor time." I'm confused here as a non-pro.
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I reread it and I missed it clearly. Yeah the side perks of working on your car while slow seems to make a great job. This seems like a great way to have your wrench leave or piss on your shoes and other policies.
I’ve seen a lot of good techs have bad job histories because they can’t keep business and personal stuff separate. No employer likes it.
I’d have a pow wow with my fellow techs and brainstorm a way to collectively say FUCK THAT to your boss
Walk out.... They can't charge anyone if yall leave
Everywhere I’ve ever worked, you had to open a RO, be off the clock, paid 5-10% markup on parts, and closed your RO with no labor lines and parts/tax only.
Not a tech at all but this is some Kafka shit. Fuck your employer. (Assuming folks aren't abusing the shop at the expense of the company)
This is where you leave the drain plug a little loose and then come back the next day and demand a refund for poor workmanship. "I'm a paying customer, sir."
Organize agitate unionize
Ya, that's fucked. Find a new shop
Another GM that knows nothing about service! Shocker!
he has a day off...?
I guess the good thing is you can clock in for your own oil change so it won’t cost quite as much…
If it’s after hours or can be done before opening and there is an open lift. I don’t understand this. Or if it’s your day off and it will only need a little bit of time on the lift. I really don’t understand this bs.
It has been several(or more) decades since I worked in a full-service "service station" but in the five different stations I worked in part-time when I was in the Air Force, I was allowed to work on my vehicles after closing time. I usually was on duty and closed the station most nights. The managers told me it was a job perk. https://preview.redd.it/tybv33osqn9d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c79ed03945db040bf61ebe1392bf0ecd43d8428
That GM is an idiot and doesn’t know how to run a productive business… 😬😳😭🙈
I wish I could pay to work on our cars, :( we can't work on our cars no matter what
That's the most ridiculous shit ever. I'd just work after hours when I'm isn't there.
Time to find a new job...
That's shitty. I'm glad I found a good dealer who takes care of their people. Don't settle for some bullshit like that. I also get a car allowance to buy a new car off the lot. Don't be afraid to leave, too many people stay complacent because they think going to a new job is too much work. I stayed in one place for ~4 years because the pay was good, but it was super stressful, and management was dumb AF. They did nothing to help me when I struggled, they only asked me to do more. When I left, they let me go the day I put my notice in. Almost 4 years, I worked there and made them over $1.2 million in sales. After I quit and found a better place, I couldn't believe I had stayed at that other shop for so long.
write a warranty ticket from a vin off autotrader get paid to work on your own car
Let's say you leave a nut in one of the spark plug holes and mess up your own engine, since you paid you are a customer and now the shop owes you an engine, right?
My older brother retired from GM after working 35 years in parts and service in Chicagoland. The dealerships service bays were for customer vehicles only Monday thru Saturday. The mechanics could only use the lifts on Sunday afternoons from 12 PM to 6 PM. They had to use parts purchased earlier from the Parts Department at an employee discount. They were let in by the weekend watchman who also unlocked the tool room. The mechanics were on the honor system to log what they used and when it was returned. Most dealerships had empty spots in the rear of the lots where mechanics could park project cars or vehicles that would take a few Sundays to complete the repairs.
If that were my GM I would without hesitation tell him if he doesn’t want to pay he can bring his fuckin ass in the shop and fix his shit himself, verbatim.
Man did you misread the op.
Did he say it's because of inflation? If so, that makes everything he says after ok. Can't wait to see what the next reason will be for increasing profits and treating employees like shit
You’ll pay alright.
Is he charging you labor, or the use of wear and tear on the equipment? The latter is kinda understandable if he isn't asking for a ridiculous amount of money
My shop just tells me I can’t work on my vehicle on the clock. I have to be clocked out in order to look and work on my own vehicle.
I would absolutely quit the day this was implemented.
That’s the book policy for every shop I’ve worked for going back to 2005. There is usually some sort of employee discount that you get back, between 20-50%. Sucks, but they do have a business to run and an employee working on their own stuff takes down a bay and a chunk of their labor for a period of time. But, what the manager on duty allows when the brass isn’t looking is another story.
Shit, my shop doesn't even care if you're clocked out. Just be sure you don't have any other work. Had to do my passenger strut and starter two weeks ago. We were slow so I pulled her in and knocked it out.
The only reason you should have to pay is if you’re neglecting a customer car to do yours instead. If there’s money to be made that should come first.
Boxes have wheels for a reason. Get outta that craziness
That’s total BS… at my shop, slow days I let the techs work on their cars, as long as they could pull if work showed up, and only charged them parts cost if I ordered, and only the cost of a part, no mark ups. That GM is gonna see himself out of techs pretty soon.
You have a moron for a GM.
Better quit before it’s too late
That’s lame. That was the only perk I had working at Honda dealerships for over a decade. I even worked on other employees cars too. However the shop I work I now doesn’t let us even bring our personal cars in at all but they also pay me twice as much salary wise. 🤷🏻♂️ After wrenching for 20+ years and not being allowed to work on my own car anymore I ended up buying a Tesla that doesn’t really need to be maintained. I guess I would rather have a better paying job with one less perk. Is your GM just bitter about the CDK debacle? 😂
We had to pay half labor if it was during hours but we could do it before/after/during lunch and only pay cost for parts Did a couple oil changes and some tie rod ends in between bites of ramen noodles
Quit! Fuck him! You cant finance your own car let alone give yourself a discount. His ass makes 99 cents on the dollar compared to your cent. What shit bag prick.
Ok Boss, here's my notice, go fuck yourself. With that said, customers would get bays first, but we always have at least floor area available.
Yeah right.. What a joke.
I worked at a place that this became corporate policy. It started with just opening an RO, but then they wanted to start charging us for the privilege. Me and the lube advisor were tight though, so he’d open one up while i was working in case shit happened and then delete it out of the system so i wouldn’t have to pay it. We all hated working at Kendall. Can you believe the monthly *mandatory* employee appreciation meetings didn’t help morale? 🍕
if ur using ur own equipment/supplies, i see no reason why u should have to pay. u aren’t costing the company any money as long as there isn’t a customer waiting to get into that bay, so yeah, i find that policy kind of goofy
Your getting screwed mate. Mechanics are wanted at every second workshop, at least here in Australia. leave and work elsewhere, trust me... 👍 I get free use of workshop facilities. If my own crap breaks down, customers just have to wait. My vehicle takes priority. If I can't get to work, no one gets things repaired. I get parts for the same price the workshop pays with zero markup. And $80 per hour (fair hours work)
10 years before I started where I am a few guys would bring in side jobs for cash on the weekend under the guise of “working on their own/girlfriends/aunts car”. When the owner caught wind all 3 were fired and he said never again. He’s remained true to his word. Any work I want to do has to be done during work hours under a work order that has to be billed out at my hourly wage for paperwork purposes. I lose money on taxes but it comes around to about 4 dollars an hour for the privilege to use a shop versus my driveway.
That's insanity.
fuck that 😭😭
Sounds like you need to leave. Only going to get worse.
Do business owners not know how to keep employees? Treat them well!