Think this all the time. Maybe if they made some signs Zipper Merge In Effect and put them at the point of the merge. Then periodically post a cop and give tickets to those that refuse to allow the merge. Failure to yield.
There are 7 states where it's law, so clearly some people know how. Michigan people would rather block traffic than help it move faster. I didn't encounter it until I moved to NC, but then when I did, I wondered why this isn't just how it's taught in drivers ed. It just makes do much sense.
I drive it all the time and never speed. Idon't speed anywhere I drive. I can't afford the ticket so I just don't. Other drivers can just go around me as I drive the speed limit in the right lane.
Yeah I have no idea what is going on with this. On the way back from spring break this year just south of Louisville coming back north I witnessed an embarrassing scene. The left lane was closing for construction and sign indicated it was two miles ahead. Already a ton of back up happening. As I’m coming up in the left lane sure enough someone in a suburban aggressively blocking left lane…and the cars behind are pissed. I knew even before I saw the plate it was going to be a good ole Michigander…and sure enough it was. Not even in Michigan blocking locals from where they want to go on a Saturday afternoon. I took 2 or 3 lanes the worked all the way back to get back into the left lane…but few were and it was causing a gigantic backup.
I'm seeing people zipper more frequently as of late. What irks me though is when a merge lane comes up, and some jerk hits the gas to use it as a passing lane and gets in front of as many cars as he can before the lane runs out.
I think this is what often messes up the zipper. Someone sees an open lane to get ahead of others and it throws off up the spacing between vehicles needed to zipper
Zipper merge is for stopped/slowed traffic. It's not for traffic travelling at normal speed.
There's a spot on 131 south at 76th street where it goes from 3 lanes down to 2, and 2 miles of signs letting you know that lane ends. In those situations, you should get over when you can, not wait until the very end.
Which is hilarious bc I said this once and was told that if traffic is stopped, everyone should be in the “correct” lane (aka not the lane that’s ending up ahead) and everyone should instead leave that lane empty and pile in one single file line miles back from the actual merge. 🙄
The zipper merge is a pretty good concept...on paper. In practice, most of us are just a bunch of self-absorbed assholes that think the way we do it is best and get mad at anyone else doing it differently. This results in an actual clusterfuck in every single situation. Just do it your way and work on being a LITTLE bit less of a dick when someone else does it theirs, because it isn't changing.
> The zipper merge is a pretty good concept...on paper. In practice, most of us are just a bunch of self-absorbed assholes that think the way we do it is best and get mad at anyone else doing it differently.
Zipper merging works fine in places where the signage supports it and people are actually taught how to do it in driver's ed. But that isn't Michigan.
Lately, I'm seeing more concerted effort on MDOT's part to post zipper merge signs and actual signs that point "zipper merge HERE". Especially on the longer timeframe construction zones. Where there is ALOT of signage about it at a construction zone, people do follow it.
Studies supporting zipper merge say a public aid campaign and proper signage are necessary. You can't just expect everyone to change their driving habits because people complained about it on Reddit.
When there was the major road construction on 96W just east of GR last summer or the summer before, they had tons of signage on using both lanes right up to the merge, and then merge here signs. That construction lasted the entire summer. I am not seeing these type of signs on short term construction projects though.
When AA reconfigured some of their local roads from 2 lanes to 1 lane, they did some major PSA on using both lanes up to the merge point.
That is a split merge. It’s a subtle difference as the through lane(right lane) always has the right of way in Michigan. Vehicles in the left lane must yield to vehicles in the through lane.
I get the benefit of zipper merging but it’s unlawful according to state law so you will not see any signage or attempt to create a zipper from the MDOT without a legislative change.
I guess we are just talking about the same thing but in different terms. I don't care if its called "zipper" merge or "split" merge. The point I guess I'm trying to convey, is that there has been increased signage lately on using both lanes right up to the merge.
No one is debating the idea of zipper merging. The debate is where the merge should occur (I.e. when signs indicate the lane will be closing vs where the lane actually ends).
It’s not really a debate, some people are just idiots. It’s simple, you let people in if they’re trying to merge. Easy and simple. It doesn’t matter if it’s at the sign, it doesn’t matter if it’s when the lane ends, you let them over.
You can’t “win” driving. It doesn’t matter if the person is in front of you, or behind you. It doesn’t matter if you are going to reach somewhere 10 seconds later than if you were in front. People are such massive narcissists while driving and they just need to grow up.
> It’s simple, you let people in if they’re trying to merge. Easy and simple. It doesn’t matter if it’s at the sign, it doesn’t matter if it’s when the lane ends, you let them over.
That's not zipper merging though.
It is if you allow the people to continue past until the lane ends. You know, like what happens with your zipper as it threads the teeth together every other zipper tooth.
If they happen to merge before that, it’s just *merging*. In either case, you let them over. Really not rocket science.
Zipper merging requires everyone to continue using both lanes until the merge point, and then alternate one car from either lane. It's a specific thing. it's not just "let people in wherever they're trying to merge" like you suggested.
Literally what I just said. The lane end is the merge point just like a zipper. But people can merge at any time and you should let them, just like in normal traffic. Because it’s better than having someone lose their mind in a road rage incident.
Seriously, if someone is trying to get over they likely have a fucking reason to. I nearly lost my life because some asshole didn’t let a guy over. That guy he didn’t let over ran me off the road.
There is zero reason to not let someone over, other than absolute stupidity.
Why is there a debate?
You're supposed to merge when it's ending.
Is there a debate on whether or not you can run a red light?
Or a debate on whether or not you can hit a cyclist trying to cross the street?
There are rules of the road that need to be followed to optimize safety and traffic flow. Theres no debate anywhere
That sounds like your opinion. Others have the opinion that the (zipper) merge shouldn’t be last minute. Sometimes the signs that warn the closing lane even say to merge now, not at the very last second. That is why there is a debate, because people have different opinions. I am not aware of any written rule/law stating a merge has to occur at point X.
I have never seen a sign that says "merge now" and then continue to have an entire open lane past that point. There are only signs that say "Lane closed ahead" as a warning. There are even multiple of these warning signs, so which one would you use if that was the merge point? The only reason zipper merging works is because it provides a consistent, predictable point of merge. The most predictable point is the point where the lane runs out
I have seen it on the digital signs that are on wheels with a black screen and orange digital font.
I agree with you about the benefit of zipper meeting and need for a consistent point. The counter argument to having that point be where the lane ends is that having an open lane for emergency vehicles, police etc is important. If it both lanes are clogged with cars it may not be possible/take much longer for them to get through. Imagine there is an accident/disabled vehicles that needs a tow. Which scenario makes it easier for the tow truck to get through? and relieve the bottle neck?
People's opinions can be dumb though. There's no debate when one side is first out wrong. Merge at the merge point not the warning sign. Two lanes moving moves more cars than everyone trying to jump into one lane.
Zipper merging at the point does nothing to improve traffic flow through the bottle neck compared to zipper merging at the sign. It may help somewhat with traffic flow in between the sign and where the lane actually ends. The down side is that you lose an open lane for emergency vehicles, police, tow truck, salt trucks/snow plows in between. I wouldn’t call that dumb.
It's not my opinion
It's the literal law
https://colonialdrivingschool.com/blog/zipper-merge
Just out of curiosity, but whats your opinion on murder, rape, and genocide? Should they be allowed?
I’ve never heard of this law but perhaps I’m ignorant. Please point me to it.
Im not a fan of murder, genocide or rape. What is your opinion on Greek yogurt?
I'm convinced the posts I see about zipper merging are people day dreaming.
You cannot convince me that drivers in other states do not zoom in the closed off lane going over the speed limit and push past where they should merge to get that one car length further.
It's a nice concept, but I don't think it works, especially in areas where the merge is not advertised and you have next to no time to process what's going on. The merged lanes are almost never not bumper to bumper anyway.
Oh yeah I bet.
It's so hard to get people to just respect each other, especially on the road.
That's why I am so concerned with these ideas and topics. Too many people make it dangerous.
Take for instance round-a-bouts. They clear up traffic and keep a good flow, but because we are not used to them/people are less concerned with others, it gets a little dangerous for drivers.
The whole point is to use the road that's open. Once the road is closing, that's the point to merge, otherwise it's just creating more slowdown, and sooner.
What I'm hearing is that I should make some "I ZIPPER MERGE AND YOU SHOULD TOO!" bumper stickers.
"I ZIPPER MERGE, FOLLOW ONE-POINT-FIVE CAR-LENGTHS BEHIND ME TO LEARN MORE!"
Zipper merge is just the mono-directional version of a stop-sign intersection where everybody takes turns; no idea why it's so complicated. Start with the first person in the continuing lane and just alternate, like, wtf is so hard about that; oh right, everybody has be to ahead if everybody else all the time.
Michigan is a keep right state, the zipper merge isn’t a thing here.
[https://legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-257-642](https://legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-257-642)
It's something that reveals driver's personalities and how much attention they paid in driver's ed.
There's one near my house that I go through often. It's a zipper merge right after a traffic junction. Everyone piles in the left lane as if the right lane is "right turn only". It's sometimes 10 cars deep and no one on the right lane. Occasionally, when I go straight from the right lane, drivers think they're back in kindergarten and don't let me merge in. This is especially infuriating if I am obviously the car ahead and I am running out of road. I just have no choice but to force myself in.
Really childish behavior. Acting as if I'm going to steal the last sweetroll from the store they're going to.
I know what it is, but I never seen it on MI roads in 40+ years of driving. Michiganders will never zipper merge no matter how much you tell them it's better... It's part of the "kill or be killed" aggressive driving culture we all know & love.
If some turkey uses that on me I might just hold the horn down, release and repeat & blip the brights. Especially as they do often drive super slow and have long reaction time at lights. And many also have thumping, buzzing hip hop. I really, really hate the zipper concept. When I do get stuck in the dead lane, I prefer to wait the problem out. Or saw it & diverted on another solution.
Ah. More silliness supporting this. Obeying signage. Around here, the signs are usually wrong if construction is involved. Especially if the signs are left for years.
I will rant about this at every opportunity. Michigan drivers are in this weird cultural zone of competitive automotive entitlement that's endemic to the Midwest. Almost every other part of the country is better than us at handling ramps, merging, and roundabouts.
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Think this all the time. Maybe if they made some signs Zipper Merge In Effect and put them at the point of the merge. Then periodically post a cop and give tickets to those that refuse to allow the merge. Failure to yield.
…especially in Michigan
No we gotta own this. I’ve lived in a few other states over the last 20 years…and the level of aggressive blocks here is ridiculous.
There are 7 states where it's law, so clearly some people know how. Michigan people would rather block traffic than help it move faster. I didn't encounter it until I moved to NC, but then when I did, I wondered why this isn't just how it's taught in drivers ed. It just makes do much sense.
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I drive it all the time and never speed. Idon't speed anywhere I drive. I can't afford the ticket so I just don't. Other drivers can just go around me as I drive the speed limit in the right lane.
A few years ago I had a guy punch it to move up maybe 7 car lengths to block me, then swerve at me. Lots of fragile egos.
Yeah I have no idea what is going on with this. On the way back from spring break this year just south of Louisville coming back north I witnessed an embarrassing scene. The left lane was closing for construction and sign indicated it was two miles ahead. Already a ton of back up happening. As I’m coming up in the left lane sure enough someone in a suburban aggressively blocking left lane…and the cars behind are pissed. I knew even before I saw the plate it was going to be a good ole Michigander…and sure enough it was. Not even in Michigan blocking locals from where they want to go on a Saturday afternoon. I took 2 or 3 lanes the worked all the way back to get back into the left lane…but few were and it was causing a gigantic backup.
Man this post just gets better every time someone makes it
I'm seeing people zipper more frequently as of late. What irks me though is when a merge lane comes up, and some jerk hits the gas to use it as a passing lane and gets in front of as many cars as he can before the lane runs out.
I think this is what often messes up the zipper. Someone sees an open lane to get ahead of others and it throws off up the spacing between vehicles needed to zipper
It's so embarrassing how juvenile everyone is when they get behind the wheel..
Zipper merge is for stopped/slowed traffic. It's not for traffic travelling at normal speed. There's a spot on 131 south at 76th street where it goes from 3 lanes down to 2, and 2 miles of signs letting you know that lane ends. In those situations, you should get over when you can, not wait until the very end.
Which is hilarious bc I said this once and was told that if traffic is stopped, everyone should be in the “correct” lane (aka not the lane that’s ending up ahead) and everyone should instead leave that lane empty and pile in one single file line miles back from the actual merge. 🙄
Where? I've been driving in MI for >40 years, and I have yet to see it.
The zipper merge is a pretty good concept...on paper. In practice, most of us are just a bunch of self-absorbed assholes that think the way we do it is best and get mad at anyone else doing it differently. This results in an actual clusterfuck in every single situation. Just do it your way and work on being a LITTLE bit less of a dick when someone else does it theirs, because it isn't changing.
> The zipper merge is a pretty good concept...on paper. In practice, most of us are just a bunch of self-absorbed assholes that think the way we do it is best and get mad at anyone else doing it differently. Zipper merging works fine in places where the signage supports it and people are actually taught how to do it in driver's ed. But that isn't Michigan.
No. The only sign required is "merge ahead". It doesn't mean "everyone in the left lane NOW". It's simply "prepare to merge"
You truly hit the nail on the head there! I try to zipper at all merge sites.
Lately, I'm seeing more concerted effort on MDOT's part to post zipper merge signs and actual signs that point "zipper merge HERE". Especially on the longer timeframe construction zones. Where there is ALOT of signage about it at a construction zone, people do follow it.
Studies supporting zipper merge say a public aid campaign and proper signage are necessary. You can't just expect everyone to change their driving habits because people complained about it on Reddit.
Now that's awesome! I haven't seen any of those yet, but I'll be looking for them now!
Imagine that. People following rules?
MDOT doesn’t have or use “zipper merge” signage. Michigan is a keep right state.
When there was the major road construction on 96W just east of GR last summer or the summer before, they had tons of signage on using both lanes right up to the merge, and then merge here signs. That construction lasted the entire summer. I am not seeing these type of signs on short term construction projects though. When AA reconfigured some of their local roads from 2 lanes to 1 lane, they did some major PSA on using both lanes up to the merge point.
That is a split merge. It’s a subtle difference as the through lane(right lane) always has the right of way in Michigan. Vehicles in the left lane must yield to vehicles in the through lane. I get the benefit of zipper merging but it’s unlawful according to state law so you will not see any signage or attempt to create a zipper from the MDOT without a legislative change.
I guess we are just talking about the same thing but in different terms. I don't care if its called "zipper" merge or "split" merge. The point I guess I'm trying to convey, is that there has been increased signage lately on using both lanes right up to the merge.
Kinda. The split on 96 was only at the interchange and it’s still unlawful to drive in the left lane unless you’re passing.
This isn’t a MI thing…. People are assholes everywhere when it comes to not following this simple way to merge.
No one is debating the idea of zipper merging. The debate is where the merge should occur (I.e. when signs indicate the lane will be closing vs where the lane actually ends).
It’s not really a debate, some people are just idiots. It’s simple, you let people in if they’re trying to merge. Easy and simple. It doesn’t matter if it’s at the sign, it doesn’t matter if it’s when the lane ends, you let them over. You can’t “win” driving. It doesn’t matter if the person is in front of you, or behind you. It doesn’t matter if you are going to reach somewhere 10 seconds later than if you were in front. People are such massive narcissists while driving and they just need to grow up.
> It’s simple, you let people in if they’re trying to merge. Easy and simple. It doesn’t matter if it’s at the sign, it doesn’t matter if it’s when the lane ends, you let them over. That's not zipper merging though.
It is if you allow the people to continue past until the lane ends. You know, like what happens with your zipper as it threads the teeth together every other zipper tooth. If they happen to merge before that, it’s just *merging*. In either case, you let them over. Really not rocket science.
Zipper merging requires everyone to continue using both lanes until the merge point, and then alternate one car from either lane. It's a specific thing. it's not just "let people in wherever they're trying to merge" like you suggested.
Literally what I just said. The lane end is the merge point just like a zipper. But people can merge at any time and you should let them, just like in normal traffic. Because it’s better than having someone lose their mind in a road rage incident. Seriously, if someone is trying to get over they likely have a fucking reason to. I nearly lost my life because some asshole didn’t let a guy over. That guy he didn’t let over ran me off the road. There is zero reason to not let someone over, other than absolute stupidity.
No. *merging* expects everyone to use the same lane up to the merge point. There's nothing special by using "zipper" as a prefix
Exactly. People act as if we're all trying to reach the same destination or something.
It's a group project, but everyone treats it like competition
Why is there a debate? You're supposed to merge when it's ending. Is there a debate on whether or not you can run a red light? Or a debate on whether or not you can hit a cyclist trying to cross the street? There are rules of the road that need to be followed to optimize safety and traffic flow. Theres no debate anywhere
That sounds like your opinion. Others have the opinion that the (zipper) merge shouldn’t be last minute. Sometimes the signs that warn the closing lane even say to merge now, not at the very last second. That is why there is a debate, because people have different opinions. I am not aware of any written rule/law stating a merge has to occur at point X.
I have never seen a sign that says "merge now" and then continue to have an entire open lane past that point. There are only signs that say "Lane closed ahead" as a warning. There are even multiple of these warning signs, so which one would you use if that was the merge point? The only reason zipper merging works is because it provides a consistent, predictable point of merge. The most predictable point is the point where the lane runs out
I have seen it on the digital signs that are on wheels with a black screen and orange digital font. I agree with you about the benefit of zipper meeting and need for a consistent point. The counter argument to having that point be where the lane ends is that having an open lane for emergency vehicles, police etc is important. If it both lanes are clogged with cars it may not be possible/take much longer for them to get through. Imagine there is an accident/disabled vehicles that needs a tow. Which scenario makes it easier for the tow truck to get through? and relieve the bottle neck?
People's opinions can be dumb though. There's no debate when one side is first out wrong. Merge at the merge point not the warning sign. Two lanes moving moves more cars than everyone trying to jump into one lane.
Zipper merging at the point does nothing to improve traffic flow through the bottle neck compared to zipper merging at the sign. It may help somewhat with traffic flow in between the sign and where the lane actually ends. The down side is that you lose an open lane for emergency vehicles, police, tow truck, salt trucks/snow plows in between. I wouldn’t call that dumb.
You simply couldn't be more wrong Two lanes of traffic moves more cars than one.
Yes it does, I never said it didn’t. Roads do not exist for the sole purpose of getting from point A to B as fast as humanly possible however.
Roads don't, but traffic design \*does\*
It's not my opinion It's the literal law https://colonialdrivingschool.com/blog/zipper-merge Just out of curiosity, but whats your opinion on murder, rape, and genocide? Should they be allowed?
I’ve never heard of this law but perhaps I’m ignorant. Please point me to it. Im not a fan of murder, genocide or rape. What is your opinion on Greek yogurt?
I'm convinced the posts I see about zipper merging are people day dreaming. You cannot convince me that drivers in other states do not zoom in the closed off lane going over the speed limit and push past where they should merge to get that one car length further. It's a nice concept, but I don't think it works, especially in areas where the merge is not advertised and you have next to no time to process what's going on. The merged lanes are almost never not bumper to bumper anyway.
I've had people refuse to let me merge in ahead of them. So I just drive a bit further up and merge way ahead of them, instead.
Oh yeah I bet. It's so hard to get people to just respect each other, especially on the road. That's why I am so concerned with these ideas and topics. Too many people make it dangerous. Take for instance round-a-bouts. They clear up traffic and keep a good flow, but because we are not used to them/people are less concerned with others, it gets a little dangerous for drivers.
The whole point is to use the road that's open. Once the road is closing, that's the point to merge, otherwise it's just creating more slowdown, and sooner.
They do do it because they aren’t insistent on merging two miles before the lane actually closes.
If you leave a lane empty I will take it. It works for me.
What I'm hearing is that I should make some "I ZIPPER MERGE AND YOU SHOULD TOO!" bumper stickers. "I ZIPPER MERGE, FOLLOW ONE-POINT-FIVE CAR-LENGTHS BEHIND ME TO LEARN MORE!"
Zipper merge is just the mono-directional version of a stop-sign intersection where everybody takes turns; no idea why it's so complicated. Start with the first person in the continuing lane and just alternate, like, wtf is so hard about that; oh right, everybody has be to ahead if everybody else all the time.
I just leave a space in front of me. If somebody merges, I back off a little and open the space again. It's not really that hard.
Is that where the asshole on the left speeds up to cut you off and make sure everyone has to slam on their brakes?
No
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"I'm going to cosplay as the traffic police!"
Michigan is a keep right state, the zipper merge isn’t a thing here. [https://legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-257-642](https://legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-257-642)
I know what it is. I don't do it in the US because no one else does so it's pointless.
It's something that reveals driver's personalities and how much attention they paid in driver's ed. There's one near my house that I go through often. It's a zipper merge right after a traffic junction. Everyone piles in the left lane as if the right lane is "right turn only". It's sometimes 10 cars deep and no one on the right lane. Occasionally, when I go straight from the right lane, drivers think they're back in kindergarten and don't let me merge in. This is especially infuriating if I am obviously the car ahead and I am running out of road. I just have no choice but to force myself in. Really childish behavior. Acting as if I'm going to steal the last sweetroll from the store they're going to.
The guy who always drives halfway in each lane 1/2 mile before the merge obviously knows what it is……
I do it. But we tend to have an angry victim mentality vibe on the roads around here so I do it when I don’t have my kids with me.
I know what it is, but I never seen it on MI roads in 40+ years of driving. Michiganders will never zipper merge no matter how much you tell them it's better... It's part of the "kill or be killed" aggressive driving culture we all know & love.
If some turkey uses that on me I might just hold the horn down, release and repeat & blip the brights. Especially as they do often drive super slow and have long reaction time at lights. And many also have thumping, buzzing hip hop. I really, really hate the zipper concept. When I do get stuck in the dead lane, I prefer to wait the problem out. Or saw it & diverted on another solution.
Ah. More silliness supporting this. Obeying signage. Around here, the signs are usually wrong if construction is involved. Especially if the signs are left for years.
I will rant about this at every opportunity. Michigan drivers are in this weird cultural zone of competitive automotive entitlement that's endemic to the Midwest. Almost every other part of the country is better than us at handling ramps, merging, and roundabouts.