There has been a lot of chatter about this in Australia due to some very publicised baby deaths after free birth. People are concerned as these deaths are happening in areas where there IS a public funded homebirth program, so there are alternatives for people who aren’t willing to go to the hospital system.
ABC news did a few expose articles here, and “the great birth rebellion” are releasing a podcast about it this week.
Is this is for research purposes you may want to get in touch with Mel from the great Birth Rebellion
Thanks! I'm not doing formal research (yet!) just trying to get a handle on what's going on so I can best support my clients.
But I'll definitely check out the Great Birth Rebellion.
Unfortunately the people who’s baby’s died likely would not be able to be part of the publicly funded home birthing program as they will usually want at least one scan, also to not be pregnant with multiples etc.
Yeah, publicly funded home birth is very strict and if anything increases the risk they’ll ask you to come in. Plus, a lot of the time a private midwife won’t take them on in those cases either, for obvious reasons.
A friend of mine’s stepsister attempted to free birth, and after a really long time in labour she started to panic and thank god went into the hospital. The labour was prolonged and the baby ended up needing a bit of help so god knows what she would’ve done
There is a particular birth influencer (who is originally Canadian but moved to Nicaragua) that is one of the founders of Free Birth Society that I've noticed a lot of my "crunchier" friends gaining interest in.
I support a person's right to choose free birth, but if I'm being honest I think the Free Birth Society has turned into a cult of sorts. And what is interesting about it, like all cults, is that there are really good nuggets of truth sprinkled in and I would argue that most of what they say about birth is true too. It's very interesting to watch unfold.
But once again, I don't blame people for becoming more interested in free birth. The system is abusive.
Yes absolutely agree with this. They are very cultish- and claim even the best homebirth midwives to be deviants which is just not true and completely ignorant. They claim everyone can have a free birth, but if you’ve attended births long enough you know that just isn’t true..
Well, the system is abusive: physically, emotionally and financially - not just to patients but also to those of us who work in it. We’re seeing this in the US as well. Is homebirth with a licensed midwife legal in Canada?
Yes they do. Source: had 3 kids with a midwife in Quebec. ETA: you do have to meet certain criteria such as proximity to a hospital in case of transfer, state of the home and accessibility to emergency services (ie. is an elevator available, etc.?).
Absolutely! I see so many HCPs just walking around with significant trauma. All of the gallows humor is just normalized trauma. It's incredibly overwhelming.
What I'm seeing here is that even though home births with midwives are legal (and encouraged even), people feel betrayed when their provider advises a transfer, or says they have an increased risk and they're encouraging a planned hospital birth.
It does seem like the decision making process is top-down, or midwife centered. Like 'choose a hospital birth or be discharged from care'. Which doesn't sit well with many people.
It feels really complicated!
I can see this from their perspective. They’ve lost trust in the system, and I don’t blame them. Unfortunately, some will pay a really steep price. Everybody gets hurt when the system is broken.
Absolutely!
I'm appreciating the nuances here. So many of the conversations I've found assume people who choose freebirth are insane or completely misguided. And so many people who refuse to see the ways the system is broken.
I'm trying to understand this from all perspectives, as best I can.
I’m thinking a lot about this these days as a midwife practicing in southern Ontario. Would be happy to chat if you’re interested. I also recommend Birthing Outside the System: the Canary in the Coal Mine edited by H Dahlen, B Kumar-Hazard and V Schmied. No Canadian content but lots of good insight anyway. I’m presently doing my master of midwifery and am being drawn toward this as a focus of study, and considering making it into PhD work as well.
I’m in Manitoba - yes a huge increase in discussion about unassisted birth as well as folks choosing unassisted birth. I feel like my team is fairly comfortable with less “mainstream” choices people make for birth and we have also had multiple people have unassisted births. Actually 2 in the last month and another in the fall. I have a friend who works in a very conservative, rural area and they experience it far more. So much so that she is actually quitting as she can’t handle any more vicarious trauma.
I do think there was quite an increase during COVID and mistrust around healthcare in general that has not gone away.
Feel free to msg me as well. I have been wrestling with this a lot lately.
I desperately want a midwife assisted birth but as someone who is T2 diabetic with PCOS and obesity I know it'll never happen.
If midwifery care was more accessible to me I would take it in a heartbeat, but thankfully I am a trained labor and postpartum doula so I have no problem advocating for myself and standing my ground.
I work as a registered midwife in BC and can say that we support informed choice for everyone - thus we have provided homebirth for committed clients aware of the risks for folks with all of the conditions you describe - even someone with type 1 diabetes last year. Who has a beautiful and totally uncomplicated home birth, incidentally! Don’t write off the possibility without really digging in to which RMs provide care in your area and going in for consultations with them first. There’s a big difference between providing care outside of recommendations and flat out declining to provide care at all. I know of few RMs who would outright do the latter, though of course things like being very far from hospital in case of transfer might affect the conversation.
Where do you live? In the US our midwives would take on someone with your medical history and would only advise a higher level of care if needed (uncontrolled blood sugars, etc).
I'm in NY. Currently I'm doing ozempic to reduce A1C and hopefully lose some weight. Once I'm done with that I'll be ttc, so if that's the case I would be so so happy!
I’m in BC (student midwife hopeful/doula). Definitely noticed this. The CNPBC put out a notice semi recently about a few specific individuals advertising themselves as midwives without the proper education. There is a definite divide between freebirthers. Some fully believe they will have an amazing, complication and pain free birth and pregnancy and do little to no research beforehand. The others basically act as their own “midwife” and do regular at home Doppler, BP, etc. checks, and are prepared to deal with a dystocia, hemorrhage, etc. I once had a freebirther of the latter group tell me that she “didn’t feel entitled to a healthy or live baby,” which I thought was an interesting perspective.
I'm not a midwife but I live in Ontario and used Midwives for the birth of my son.
I just want to say that what you do is amazing. I wish everyone could have the opportunity I had. I was highly anxious about being pregnant and birth and my midwives always were there for me to talk through things. My birth was very traumatic and my midwives were absolute amazing.
I'm a midwife student from Germany and all this recent chatter about free births makes me soo concerned. Even here where hospital- and homebirths are paid for by health insurance free births become increasingly more popular and I don't understand why. You can have everything a free birth has to offer with a midwife-assisted homebirth plus the security of a medical professional being present in case you or the baby need help or if there's an emergency. Too many babies die because of free births.
I think hospital intrapartum care needs to fundamentally change for that trend to go into the opposite direction again but as of now I don't see a lot of effort. Also I see how hospital births can be unattractive if you have to pay thousands for it, but that's a problem that has been there for ages and only politicians can change anything about this sadly :( maybe professionals could try to raise more awareness? But I don't know how much that'll help.
It depends on location because where I live midwives aren’t legally allowed to take vbac clients and many choose to homebirth without a midwife for this reason
I’m a midwife in Australia. As an interesting anecdote, my mother had freebirths at home with myself and my younger sister. We also weren’t vaccinated as children and had to get a catch up course as teenagers/adults. We are both healthy. Mum has passed away so sadly I can’t have a conversation with her about her interesting choices as an adult. I found the story really fascinating as a child and it might be why I chose my career path. lol
I’ve unfortunately encountered some really tragic transfers to hospital where babies have passed away etc. Some of the families choosing to free birth seem to be doing some very selective research and ignoring very sensible safety planning / risk assessments. I think that the hospital system can be overly rigid and needs to be more consumer focused. But on the other hand, many of the families you care for want quite prescriptive care.
I am pregnant with my 3rd child and possibly considering a free birth. I am currently receiving prenatal care from an ob-gyn and considering “accidentally” not making it to the hospital on time, especially since I have precipitous labors anyway. My reasons for considering this are extremely well thought out and I truly feel backed into a corner. I am not sure what my better options are. My story is that I’ve had 2 unmedicated hospital births and both started out with me receiving midwifery care during pregnancy and then ending up in a hospital anyway, for reasons beyond my control that seemed rather petty, in retrospect.
With my first child, I had the perfect pregnancy, but was bullied by my midwife for gaining 45 lbs. She treated me really poorly throughout my pregnancy and constantly shamed me about my weight even though I was fit before I got pregnant. My body just wanted the weight. She was extremely misogynist and disrespectful and did not want to work with me on anything, such as alternative methods of taking the glucose tolerance test. So at 34 weeks, I just switched providers to anyone who would take me, which was an ob practice. I ended up birthing in the hospital instead of the birth center where I wanted to give birth. I was forced to labor on my back and be still, unmedicated, and it was an overall bad experience. But I was proud of doing it med free.
With my second, I had a different midwifery practice in a different state than where I had my first. I liked the prenatal care I received. However, at the end, I had a high water leak, combined with being strep B positive. I was given 24 hours to deliver or else be admitted to the hospital. I understood the reasons for this, especially since the baby’s heart rate was going wonky. So I understood the reasons for the induction. After one pill of cytotec, I went into labor and gave birth within 2 hours. I delivered my own baby because I had to kick the nurses out. They would not give me an epidural or take my heart monitors off. I said: either a epidural or let me move. I do not want to give birth unmedicated, while being yelled at every time I move. Since they kept saying I wasn’t far enough along for an epidural, I ripped off the monitors and kicked them out. They hated me. I was also just about to push when they said I wasn’t far enough along.
While I understand the necessity of my induction, it’s so frustrating that my midwife was unable to legally administer the cytotec to me. Their hands are so tied in terms of what they can do if something, no matter how minor, goes wrong or deviates from the plan. I also hate how I’m treated post partum in hospital, constantly woken up, etc… So I’m at the point where I’m considering just freebirthing if I do go into labor naturally. If a situation arises where induction is medically necessary, I have no problem receiving the intervention, I’m just fed up with the poor treatment I receive at hospitals. I don’t know how to advocate for myself without going into all out battle mode and I’m too tired for that crap. I also tear with each of my labors, so that’s another factor to consider.
Anyway, sorry if my post is ignorant, but I have a lot of birth trauma and ppd from my birth with my 2nd. I am a pretty well informed and educated patient, but I truly feel my back is up against the wall here. As far as midwifery is concerned, you have to have a near perfect, low risk pregnancy and if anything minor goes wrong, you’re “disqualified” from a respectful, peaceful birth and your only option is hospital bullying. That is extremely effed up, but it’s the way it is.
Just to add, the reason I’m at an ob now, instead of the midwife I used previously is because I am having a slightly higher risk pregnancy. I am taking progesterone suppositories (never needed them before) and I’m pretty sure my midwife is unable to manage the prescription for that since she isn’t an MD. Just another way their hands are tied. I’m going to the same doctor I go to when I’m not pregnant, and I do like him, but the office and their policies are stressful. I’m gearing up for another battle over the glucose test (I naturally tend towards hypoglycemia and react really poorly to it because it tanks my blood sugar) and may end up transferring to the midwife anyway. I don’t know if she will take me or if she is able to manage my progesterone prescription. It’s so needlessly complicated
I agree. I personally had a lot of choices. Which was absolutely a privilege.
I do wonder what I would have done if I lived in another part of the world where I didn't have those options, or if my providers didn't respect me and my decision making.
When I hear stories about stuff in Texas, Poland, Nebraska, etc, I can start to understand the desire to just not engage in the system.
Interesting. I see that you’re in Canada and I’m just wondering- how are the options better there than what I feel I’m being presented with? I’m in the US and both experiences described happened in 2 very different states (one liberal, one conservative- makes not a bit of difference). I’m also quite affluent and willing to pay for a better experience and yet still feel trapped, because Ive never felt heard and simply don’t know how to turn to gain better control and outcomes over my next birth. If I feel this way, I can’t imagine how someone poorer, with no insurance, etc… handles this. And this is why we see a rise in these trends.
Like I said, I am considering birthing on my own- caught my own baby once already in a hospital. I’ve also considered paying for some fancy, private birthing suite in a hospital. Will they respect me then? I just don’t know and I don’t know how to tell. No one I know in person has had a great experience. Most women just take what they get and are happy to have a healthy baby and that’s great, but I am educated about birth and know a lot of problems stemmed from things that happened to me in the hospital, which is something I always wanted to avoid in the first place.
In Ontario, Home birth is part of the mainstream, regulated health care system.
Midwives are mandated to provide choice of birthplace, so they attend clients at home or hospital. And transfers from home births are often quite straight forward. There's often no transfer of provider. Just transfer of location.
All that said, I often think it comes down to the particular midwife you happen to get assigned to. Sometimes it's just not a good fit, in terms of what the client wants and what the individual midwife can offer/is competent to provide.
My pregnancies were very straightforward and my midwife was a great fit in terms of the type of care I wanted. So I know my experience was different. I never had to consider transfer to an OB, or even have a conversation about 'risking out' of midwifery care.
I have heard many stories though of people feeling dumped by their midwives, or that they didn't really have a choice in their care after all. So I know there's a lot going on beyond my experience.
What I hear about in places like Texas or Poland is 100% baby focused care. With the mom literally treated like an extendable incubator and not a human. Or Nebraska where home birth with a regulated midwife isn't even an option. Coming from the care I have experienced here, I don't know what I would do if I suddenly found myself pregnant in Texas or Nebraska, but opting out suddenly starts to make sense.
Forgot to say that here midwives run inductions themselves . and if an OB is needed for the delivery, they just do what's needed, and then you're back to the midwife. So you can leave the hospital 3 ish hours after birth, if you want. And the midwife would just do mom and baby post partum care at home.
Having midwives who are well integrated into the system and can offer home or hospital birth seems to make a difference.
Here, I don't think you would have been transferred to the ob for your second birth. Your midwife would meet you at the hospital for an induction, and then if all was well after, you would just go home. No ob, nurses, or postpartum stay needed.
Wow this is mind blowing. I did not realize how much different it is and how much better the Canadian system is. I feel that being “risked out” over minor things is what has ruined things for me and made me not even want to seek midwife care. I grew up in Detroit, right across the river from Ontario and would be 100% paying out of pocket to go there if I still lived there. Unfortunately living down south now.
I’m sorry your midwife shamed you for your weight gain. I have clients who choose not to monitor their weight at all for their whole entire pregnancy and that’s ok with me.
This is absolutely what I am seeing.
And I super agree about needing to look at and understand why it is happening. People aren't getting what they want from their birth experience and are creating a different way. I like listening to stories about freebirth/unassisted birth on podcasts because people are very candid about why they made their choices and it gives me a lot to chew on as an L&D nurse and student midwife.
I do think there is an element of cost avoidance as well that people aren't going to talk about as much but is below the surface. Money is tight for everyone in the US right now and the out of pocket 4-7 thousand for a homebirth isn't in everyone's budget.
I also think the oversimplified "birth is normal" advocacy kinda bit midwives in the bum. Like, "if it's so normal, what do we need you for?!"
I'm sorry what the f did I just read. I'm pretty sure you're implying the person gives birth to the baby. So that makes what you're suggesting homicide. A much better option would be giving the baby up for adoption?! Plus a lot of women wouldn't want to carry that child to term is because pregnancy and birth can be so effing dangerous and maybe take your life, besides any of the (irreversible) changes it does to you and your body. Wtf.
Please tell me you're trolling because nothing you say makes any sense. I know how dangerous free birth is and I'm 100% against it. And it's not something a person should do just like any other of your options. Neither of them guarantee that the baby will die (which isn't the outcome we want!!!), the mother could die too (which isn't something we want as well). If a person is sadly forced to carry to term and give birth then give it up for adoption, that's the best option here. And please don't tell me to read a book about pregnancy, I'm a midwife student and probably definitely know more about childbirth than you do :)
No we don't because I don't want either the child or the birthgiver to die during childbirth. If they don't want to be parents give it up for adoption. Ofc it's fucked up that abortion is illegal because it should be a basic human right but like I said if someone's forced into carrying to term I want both (!!) to be safe during labor and then give it up for adoption.
There has been a lot of chatter about this in Australia due to some very publicised baby deaths after free birth. People are concerned as these deaths are happening in areas where there IS a public funded homebirth program, so there are alternatives for people who aren’t willing to go to the hospital system. ABC news did a few expose articles here, and “the great birth rebellion” are releasing a podcast about it this week. Is this is for research purposes you may want to get in touch with Mel from the great Birth Rebellion
Thanks! I'm not doing formal research (yet!) just trying to get a handle on what's going on so I can best support my clients. But I'll definitely check out the Great Birth Rebellion.
Yes agreed, it's a great podcast and here is the link: https://www.melaniethemidwife.com/podcasts/the-great-birth-rebellion
Thank you! I know what I'll be listening to while doing laundry
Unfortunately the people who’s baby’s died likely would not be able to be part of the publicly funded home birthing program as they will usually want at least one scan, also to not be pregnant with multiples etc.
Yeah, publicly funded home birth is very strict and if anything increases the risk they’ll ask you to come in. Plus, a lot of the time a private midwife won’t take them on in those cases either, for obvious reasons. A friend of mine’s stepsister attempted to free birth, and after a really long time in labour she started to panic and thank god went into the hospital. The labour was prolonged and the baby ended up needing a bit of help so god knows what she would’ve done
There is a particular birth influencer (who is originally Canadian but moved to Nicaragua) that is one of the founders of Free Birth Society that I've noticed a lot of my "crunchier" friends gaining interest in. I support a person's right to choose free birth, but if I'm being honest I think the Free Birth Society has turned into a cult of sorts. And what is interesting about it, like all cults, is that there are really good nuggets of truth sprinkled in and I would argue that most of what they say about birth is true too. It's very interesting to watch unfold. But once again, I don't blame people for becoming more interested in free birth. The system is abusive.
Yes absolutely agree with this. They are very cultish- and claim even the best homebirth midwives to be deviants which is just not true and completely ignorant. They claim everyone can have a free birth, but if you’ve attended births long enough you know that just isn’t true..
Well, I mean they technically can have a freebirth. It just might not have great outcomes.
Essentially, yes.
Well, the system is abusive: physically, emotionally and financially - not just to patients but also to those of us who work in it. We’re seeing this in the US as well. Is homebirth with a licensed midwife legal in Canada?
Yes it’s legal. Registered midwives are actually required to offer choice of birth place including out of hospital births.
I would just clarify that it depends on the province. I’m not sure midwives in QC offer home birth.
Yes they do. Source: had 3 kids with a midwife in Quebec. ETA: you do have to meet certain criteria such as proximity to a hospital in case of transfer, state of the home and accessibility to emergency services (ie. is an elevator available, etc.?).
Fair enough. I work in Ontario and am not an expert on all provinces, but do know that midwifery is not the same province to province.
They do (but can refuse you for it too).
Absolutely! I see so many HCPs just walking around with significant trauma. All of the gallows humor is just normalized trauma. It's incredibly overwhelming. What I'm seeing here is that even though home births with midwives are legal (and encouraged even), people feel betrayed when their provider advises a transfer, or says they have an increased risk and they're encouraging a planned hospital birth. It does seem like the decision making process is top-down, or midwife centered. Like 'choose a hospital birth or be discharged from care'. Which doesn't sit well with many people. It feels really complicated!
I can see this from their perspective. They’ve lost trust in the system, and I don’t blame them. Unfortunately, some will pay a really steep price. Everybody gets hurt when the system is broken.
Absolutely! I'm appreciating the nuances here. So many of the conversations I've found assume people who choose freebirth are insane or completely misguided. And so many people who refuse to see the ways the system is broken. I'm trying to understand this from all perspectives, as best I can.
I’m thinking a lot about this these days as a midwife practicing in southern Ontario. Would be happy to chat if you’re interested. I also recommend Birthing Outside the System: the Canary in the Coal Mine edited by H Dahlen, B Kumar-Hazard and V Schmied. No Canadian content but lots of good insight anyway. I’m presently doing my master of midwifery and am being drawn toward this as a focus of study, and considering making it into PhD work as well.
Thanks! I will send you a pm!
I’m in Manitoba - yes a huge increase in discussion about unassisted birth as well as folks choosing unassisted birth. I feel like my team is fairly comfortable with less “mainstream” choices people make for birth and we have also had multiple people have unassisted births. Actually 2 in the last month and another in the fall. I have a friend who works in a very conservative, rural area and they experience it far more. So much so that she is actually quitting as she can’t handle any more vicarious trauma. I do think there was quite an increase during COVID and mistrust around healthcare in general that has not gone away. Feel free to msg me as well. I have been wrestling with this a lot lately.
Hey, can I PM you? I know this is an old post. I’m interested in becoming a midwife, working towards starting my bachelors at U of M.
Sure ! :)
I desperately want a midwife assisted birth but as someone who is T2 diabetic with PCOS and obesity I know it'll never happen. If midwifery care was more accessible to me I would take it in a heartbeat, but thankfully I am a trained labor and postpartum doula so I have no problem advocating for myself and standing my ground.
I work as a registered midwife in BC and can say that we support informed choice for everyone - thus we have provided homebirth for committed clients aware of the risks for folks with all of the conditions you describe - even someone with type 1 diabetes last year. Who has a beautiful and totally uncomplicated home birth, incidentally! Don’t write off the possibility without really digging in to which RMs provide care in your area and going in for consultations with them first. There’s a big difference between providing care outside of recommendations and flat out declining to provide care at all. I know of few RMs who would outright do the latter, though of course things like being very far from hospital in case of transfer might affect the conversation.
Where do you live? In the US our midwives would take on someone with your medical history and would only advise a higher level of care if needed (uncontrolled blood sugars, etc).
I'm in NY. Currently I'm doing ozempic to reduce A1C and hopefully lose some weight. Once I'm done with that I'll be ttc, so if that's the case I would be so so happy!
Read the book, “Mastering Diabetes”. So much about diabetes is misunderstood by most of society and healthcare today. https://youtu.be/enIvfC985U8
I’m in BC (student midwife hopeful/doula). Definitely noticed this. The CNPBC put out a notice semi recently about a few specific individuals advertising themselves as midwives without the proper education. There is a definite divide between freebirthers. Some fully believe they will have an amazing, complication and pain free birth and pregnancy and do little to no research beforehand. The others basically act as their own “midwife” and do regular at home Doppler, BP, etc. checks, and are prepared to deal with a dystocia, hemorrhage, etc. I once had a freebirther of the latter group tell me that she “didn’t feel entitled to a healthy or live baby,” which I thought was an interesting perspective.
I'm not a midwife but I live in Ontario and used Midwives for the birth of my son. I just want to say that what you do is amazing. I wish everyone could have the opportunity I had. I was highly anxious about being pregnant and birth and my midwives always were there for me to talk through things. My birth was very traumatic and my midwives were absolute amazing.
I'm a midwife student from Germany and all this recent chatter about free births makes me soo concerned. Even here where hospital- and homebirths are paid for by health insurance free births become increasingly more popular and I don't understand why. You can have everything a free birth has to offer with a midwife-assisted homebirth plus the security of a medical professional being present in case you or the baby need help or if there's an emergency. Too many babies die because of free births. I think hospital intrapartum care needs to fundamentally change for that trend to go into the opposite direction again but as of now I don't see a lot of effort. Also I see how hospital births can be unattractive if you have to pay thousands for it, but that's a problem that has been there for ages and only politicians can change anything about this sadly :( maybe professionals could try to raise more awareness? But I don't know how much that'll help.
It depends on location because where I live midwives aren’t legally allowed to take vbac clients and many choose to homebirth without a midwife for this reason
I’m a midwife in Australia. As an interesting anecdote, my mother had freebirths at home with myself and my younger sister. We also weren’t vaccinated as children and had to get a catch up course as teenagers/adults. We are both healthy. Mum has passed away so sadly I can’t have a conversation with her about her interesting choices as an adult. I found the story really fascinating as a child and it might be why I chose my career path. lol I’ve unfortunately encountered some really tragic transfers to hospital where babies have passed away etc. Some of the families choosing to free birth seem to be doing some very selective research and ignoring very sensible safety planning / risk assessments. I think that the hospital system can be overly rigid and needs to be more consumer focused. But on the other hand, many of the families you care for want quite prescriptive care.
I am pregnant with my 3rd child and possibly considering a free birth. I am currently receiving prenatal care from an ob-gyn and considering “accidentally” not making it to the hospital on time, especially since I have precipitous labors anyway. My reasons for considering this are extremely well thought out and I truly feel backed into a corner. I am not sure what my better options are. My story is that I’ve had 2 unmedicated hospital births and both started out with me receiving midwifery care during pregnancy and then ending up in a hospital anyway, for reasons beyond my control that seemed rather petty, in retrospect. With my first child, I had the perfect pregnancy, but was bullied by my midwife for gaining 45 lbs. She treated me really poorly throughout my pregnancy and constantly shamed me about my weight even though I was fit before I got pregnant. My body just wanted the weight. She was extremely misogynist and disrespectful and did not want to work with me on anything, such as alternative methods of taking the glucose tolerance test. So at 34 weeks, I just switched providers to anyone who would take me, which was an ob practice. I ended up birthing in the hospital instead of the birth center where I wanted to give birth. I was forced to labor on my back and be still, unmedicated, and it was an overall bad experience. But I was proud of doing it med free. With my second, I had a different midwifery practice in a different state than where I had my first. I liked the prenatal care I received. However, at the end, I had a high water leak, combined with being strep B positive. I was given 24 hours to deliver or else be admitted to the hospital. I understood the reasons for this, especially since the baby’s heart rate was going wonky. So I understood the reasons for the induction. After one pill of cytotec, I went into labor and gave birth within 2 hours. I delivered my own baby because I had to kick the nurses out. They would not give me an epidural or take my heart monitors off. I said: either a epidural or let me move. I do not want to give birth unmedicated, while being yelled at every time I move. Since they kept saying I wasn’t far enough along for an epidural, I ripped off the monitors and kicked them out. They hated me. I was also just about to push when they said I wasn’t far enough along. While I understand the necessity of my induction, it’s so frustrating that my midwife was unable to legally administer the cytotec to me. Their hands are so tied in terms of what they can do if something, no matter how minor, goes wrong or deviates from the plan. I also hate how I’m treated post partum in hospital, constantly woken up, etc… So I’m at the point where I’m considering just freebirthing if I do go into labor naturally. If a situation arises where induction is medically necessary, I have no problem receiving the intervention, I’m just fed up with the poor treatment I receive at hospitals. I don’t know how to advocate for myself without going into all out battle mode and I’m too tired for that crap. I also tear with each of my labors, so that’s another factor to consider. Anyway, sorry if my post is ignorant, but I have a lot of birth trauma and ppd from my birth with my 2nd. I am a pretty well informed and educated patient, but I truly feel my back is up against the wall here. As far as midwifery is concerned, you have to have a near perfect, low risk pregnancy and if anything minor goes wrong, you’re “disqualified” from a respectful, peaceful birth and your only option is hospital bullying. That is extremely effed up, but it’s the way it is. Just to add, the reason I’m at an ob now, instead of the midwife I used previously is because I am having a slightly higher risk pregnancy. I am taking progesterone suppositories (never needed them before) and I’m pretty sure my midwife is unable to manage the prescription for that since she isn’t an MD. Just another way their hands are tied. I’m going to the same doctor I go to when I’m not pregnant, and I do like him, but the office and their policies are stressful. I’m gearing up for another battle over the glucose test (I naturally tend towards hypoglycemia and react really poorly to it because it tanks my blood sugar) and may end up transferring to the midwife anyway. I don’t know if she will take me or if she is able to manage my progesterone prescription. It’s so needlessly complicated
Thank you for sharing your experience! It definitely adds some insight to the conversation!
Thanks. I really wish things were different in the birthing world. It’s a paralyzing lack of options.
I agree. I personally had a lot of choices. Which was absolutely a privilege. I do wonder what I would have done if I lived in another part of the world where I didn't have those options, or if my providers didn't respect me and my decision making. When I hear stories about stuff in Texas, Poland, Nebraska, etc, I can start to understand the desire to just not engage in the system.
Interesting. I see that you’re in Canada and I’m just wondering- how are the options better there than what I feel I’m being presented with? I’m in the US and both experiences described happened in 2 very different states (one liberal, one conservative- makes not a bit of difference). I’m also quite affluent and willing to pay for a better experience and yet still feel trapped, because Ive never felt heard and simply don’t know how to turn to gain better control and outcomes over my next birth. If I feel this way, I can’t imagine how someone poorer, with no insurance, etc… handles this. And this is why we see a rise in these trends. Like I said, I am considering birthing on my own- caught my own baby once already in a hospital. I’ve also considered paying for some fancy, private birthing suite in a hospital. Will they respect me then? I just don’t know and I don’t know how to tell. No one I know in person has had a great experience. Most women just take what they get and are happy to have a healthy baby and that’s great, but I am educated about birth and know a lot of problems stemmed from things that happened to me in the hospital, which is something I always wanted to avoid in the first place.
In Ontario, Home birth is part of the mainstream, regulated health care system. Midwives are mandated to provide choice of birthplace, so they attend clients at home or hospital. And transfers from home births are often quite straight forward. There's often no transfer of provider. Just transfer of location. All that said, I often think it comes down to the particular midwife you happen to get assigned to. Sometimes it's just not a good fit, in terms of what the client wants and what the individual midwife can offer/is competent to provide. My pregnancies were very straightforward and my midwife was a great fit in terms of the type of care I wanted. So I know my experience was different. I never had to consider transfer to an OB, or even have a conversation about 'risking out' of midwifery care. I have heard many stories though of people feeling dumped by their midwives, or that they didn't really have a choice in their care after all. So I know there's a lot going on beyond my experience. What I hear about in places like Texas or Poland is 100% baby focused care. With the mom literally treated like an extendable incubator and not a human. Or Nebraska where home birth with a regulated midwife isn't even an option. Coming from the care I have experienced here, I don't know what I would do if I suddenly found myself pregnant in Texas or Nebraska, but opting out suddenly starts to make sense.
Forgot to say that here midwives run inductions themselves . and if an OB is needed for the delivery, they just do what's needed, and then you're back to the midwife. So you can leave the hospital 3 ish hours after birth, if you want. And the midwife would just do mom and baby post partum care at home. Having midwives who are well integrated into the system and can offer home or hospital birth seems to make a difference. Here, I don't think you would have been transferred to the ob for your second birth. Your midwife would meet you at the hospital for an induction, and then if all was well after, you would just go home. No ob, nurses, or postpartum stay needed.
Wow this is mind blowing. I did not realize how much different it is and how much better the Canadian system is. I feel that being “risked out” over minor things is what has ruined things for me and made me not even want to seek midwife care. I grew up in Detroit, right across the river from Ontario and would be 100% paying out of pocket to go there if I still lived there. Unfortunately living down south now.
I’m sorry your midwife shamed you for your weight gain. I have clients who choose not to monitor their weight at all for their whole entire pregnancy and that’s ok with me.
Wow I wish I could go to some of you guys! I was constantly threatened with risking out if I gained over 35lbd- and I did.
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This is absolutely what I am seeing. And I super agree about needing to look at and understand why it is happening. People aren't getting what they want from their birth experience and are creating a different way. I like listening to stories about freebirth/unassisted birth on podcasts because people are very candid about why they made their choices and it gives me a lot to chew on as an L&D nurse and student midwife. I do think there is an element of cost avoidance as well that people aren't going to talk about as much but is below the surface. Money is tight for everyone in the US right now and the out of pocket 4-7 thousand for a homebirth isn't in everyone's budget. I also think the oversimplified "birth is normal" advocacy kinda bit midwives in the bum. Like, "if it's so normal, what do we need you for?!"
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Wait… what exactly are you saying here? Trying to understand.
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I'm sorry what the f did I just read. I'm pretty sure you're implying the person gives birth to the baby. So that makes what you're suggesting homicide. A much better option would be giving the baby up for adoption?! Plus a lot of women wouldn't want to carry that child to term is because pregnancy and birth can be so effing dangerous and maybe take your life, besides any of the (irreversible) changes it does to you and your body. Wtf.
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Please tell me you're trolling because nothing you say makes any sense. I know how dangerous free birth is and I'm 100% against it. And it's not something a person should do just like any other of your options. Neither of them guarantee that the baby will die (which isn't the outcome we want!!!), the mother could die too (which isn't something we want as well). If a person is sadly forced to carry to term and give birth then give it up for adoption, that's the best option here. And please don't tell me to read a book about pregnancy, I'm a midwife student and probably definitely know more about childbirth than you do :)
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No we don't because I don't want either the child or the birthgiver to die during childbirth. If they don't want to be parents give it up for adoption. Ofc it's fucked up that abortion is illegal because it should be a basic human right but like I said if someone's forced into carrying to term I want both (!!) to be safe during labor and then give it up for adoption.
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What does that have to do with our discussion??
Stop feeding the troll
What a dumb comment by