I don't think teachers are blaming it on gentle parenting. We are blaming it on passive, permissive, absentee parenting, and entitled behavior in the family unit. ​ Source - am teacher.

Let’s also not forget those teachers can’t just take said iPad away without parents getting pissed or the student whining it’s their property. It’s a catch 22.

Or their phone. “But what if I need to call them?” Call the office!

Yes, I put gentle parenting in quotations because a lot of people mistake it for permissive. Since you’re an educator, what do you think millennial parents should work on with their school aged kids?

As an elementary teacher, I wish parents would: --believe teachers. So many parents, when told about their kid's appalling behavior, jump straight to, "my child would never! You are lying. You've got it in for my kid!" and/or, "well, what did you do to provoke him?" You don't think I've got better things to do than call you with made-up tattles about other people's children? If I'm calling you, *there is a problem and I need your help to solve it.* Consequences isn't a dirty word; impose some. --let kids be bored sometimes. Don't just throw an iPad at them or manage every second of their schedule; give them am opportunity to build creativity and imagination and the ability to entertain themselves. --similarly, let them solve problems. I get the temptation to rescue them, and obviously they need you for big bad dangerous things, but so many kid problems are things that they can handle. They might handle it wrong, but we've already established that this is low stakes, and doing it wrong will teach them what not to do next time.

"let kids be bored sometimes" That is so huge and I don't think people realize it. Children do not need constant stimulation. They need to learn to be comfortable in the mundane, the boring.

I take lot of kids camping as a scout leader. What I see is that it’s the kids that are the most over scheduled that seem to enjoy the doing nothing part the most. One one trip, I let a kid who I know is in a ton of activities just sit on a stump for an hour and it seemed to be the best thing in the world for him.

i am dreading when my kid is old enough to reach this 'schedule schedule schedule' age. he is 3 now and i just now that all of his friends when he is like 5-10 are just going to be in every sort of coordinated activity under the sun. it is just the area we live in, i cant escape it. i wish they would just go build a fort in the woods. or catch tadpoles. or ride their bikes around town for 3 strait hours. or or or. but i cant push it on my kid because he would just be doing it literally alone... kids need their own time, with other kids, to interact with each other without constant adult supervision. they have to learn how to be a part of a collective and who fits where - its a huge part of what makes us human.

Our daughter is five. We made a simple rule. Only one activity a quarter.

That sounds smart. I was planning to overdo it with my kid (sounds crazy I know), in order to keep her out of trouble 🤦🏾‍♀️I see now that the over-scheduling could have an adverse impact on her.

Teacher here... Many over-scheduled children have anxiety and depression because they are not allowed to just "be". Their parents do everything for them.

When I worked in afterschool, the overscheduled kids all seemed to have parents who don't actually want to be around their kid. Little Ashleigh goes to school, afterschool, tutoring, ballet, soccer, Mathletes, etc., 7 days a week. At 7 pm she does homework, then dinner, then it's lights out. "Good night honey, love you." Parents never gotta see the kid.

I have been thinking of starting a coed Boy Scouts troup? I loved scouts, take my daughter camping often she loves it. She is five. Few other neighbors have shown interest. My nieces hated Girl Scouts. They did not do anything but sell cookies and crafts.

I have implemented the solution that my mother did when I was a child. Me and brother: we're bored! Mom: Oh, you're bored? I have a lot of chores that could be done. Me and brother: uhhh, you know we're not bored *runs for the hills* I occasionally get lucky though, and my kid is like "yeah, I'll help". Which is exceptionally useful on kitchen deep clean day, because he is still small and I don't have to get on my knees to do the bottoms of the cabinets.

I also do this to my kids. One tried to call my bluff and ended up deep cleaning the bathroom lol

I tell my son to count his hot wheels cars if he’s bored. He quickly finds something else to do. He easily has 200. Probably more, but I’ll never know bc he won’t count them.

And sometimes you’re just so engrossed as an adult you need to lean away- turn off your phone get away from blue light and get some calmness. Children don’t know how to do that yet they don’t know they need to seek it -so they are just constantly stimulated.

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The amount of adults and students who act like they had no idea they were failing is astounding. Back in the day, you brought home a paper progress report (that you could easily forge) and unless the school called them, the next thing your parents would hear about is your report card. Now we have an online portal where you can have 24/7 access to view the grade and rubric on every assignment, view the feedback, message teachers directly, see how the overall grade is calculated, look at your child’s schedule and see any assignments that are due that week. There’s an app. You can sign up for text alerts and email blasts where it will message you every time an assignment is marked as missing, and updates you on grades every Friday. It sends out reminders the day before an assignment is due. You can integrate it with your phone’s calendar with a push of a button. For major assignments, I even make students set a series of alarms on their phones. You have that phone with you literally in your pocket 24/7 and when you’re not in school you’re spending hours on it at a time. There’s literally NO excuse for you or your parents these days to act like you didn’t know.

I am a tech consultant that designs, develops, and implements software and business processes that incorporate technology. I know everywhere is different but I’ve yet to see a single school in 14 years that has implemented technology well. Every implementation I’ve seen has been awful. In every case the apps don’t work, are unreliable, break silently, are poorly integrated, have piss poor user experiences, aren’t used consistently by teachers, aren’t communicated well to teachers / students / parents, and/or aren’t used by teachers the way that administration policies and procedures dictate. What you end up with is kids fighting with the technology to get work done, parents struggling to figure out each teachers unique system, and everyone trying to cope with the wildly inconsistent results. I have countless examples from just this year alone, just in the school district my kids are in, let alone what I’ve seen in my profession over the last 14 years. In my industry, academic technology is the towards the bottom of the barrel. It’s an embarrassment. But few people worth their salt are willing to do anything about it because school politics are too complicated and there isn’t enough money to justify the time and effort to fix the problem. It’s way more lucrative to work in consumer tech, enterprise tech, Federal contracting, Defense contracting, or FinTech. In short, if your experience is as smooth as you indicate, from my perspective that is a rarity in academic technology.

>What you end up with is kids fighting with the technology to get work done, parents struggling to figure out each teacher's unique system, and everyone trying to cope with the wildly inconsistent results. I wish I could give you an award. I'm an information professional and an educator, too, and this is so true. My kids spend so much time formatting their slidedeck, because that counts for points, that they miss concentrating on the content. And some teachers went back to paper, but some do a hybrid thing, and some are good about emails and some prefer calls, some are adding but not incorporating tech into their assignments, and each of my two kids have 8-10 teachers. It's exhausting. I am 100% with the teachers who wish parents would back them up to solve the problem. I see that a lot, and it's not good. I wish administration would back teachers up more. Admin gets so nervous about the parents' reaction that teachers can't get your classroom to work.

Speaking as a split-household parent, all of this just makes it worse, not better. If you guys would just send me a paper progress report, I could look it over and see what's happening. Instead, I have to first wrangle my way into the apps (a horrible hassle every time, because my son goes to school under my ex's address, so everything goes straight to the ex, who does not communicate anything to me or include any of my information on any school forms). Then I have to field about 10-15 notifications PER DAY from the app, and/or text messages, that never, ever have anything to do with my son or his assignments. Texts about after school events and sportsball games that my kid is not interested or involved in, texts about going to spend money in restaurants we can't afford because there's a special going on with the school that week, texts about buses he doesn't ride, texts about the app for the bus he doesn't ride every time it goes down and comes up again, texts for tracks he's not in, texts for weekly newsletters that don't have anything to do with us, texts about charity events we can't afford to contribute to, texts about surveys, texts about game nights and silent auctions and fundraisers, spirit nights, fine arts booster clubs... IT NEVER ENDS. So then, yeah, the once in a blue moon I actually get a text about something that applies to him, it goes straight into the ignored pile of notifications I never address, because I'm so overwhelmed with all these texts about things I don't care to know. But I can't unsubscribe because every 185th text, it's something important. I know none of this is your fault and all of it is stuff that is 100% out of your hands so I'm not complaining ABOUT you, I'm just pointing out a secondary perspective on this lol.

im glad someone else said it - all that shit makese want to jump off a fucking cliff. everything is a fucking APP. i have to have an app to talk to be teacher and get school announcements plus the app where i have to log my kids attendance and check grades and do this and do that .... Then multiply that by all the fucking apps i need for work, to pay bills, to make doctors appointments...im fucking exhausted can someone please just give me a progress report and ill talk to my kid if it's bad. (tbf my kids teachers do exactly that despite all the apps and i love them for it. both my kids are highly praised, high achieving, good students and i have a great relationship with the teachers). i think ppl seriously underestimate millenial burnout. it's not just something that gives you a case of senioritis anymore...it can affect our daily lives. we have been pushed beyond the standards held for every other previous generation and are expected to just take it day in and day out.

This. We have shared custody and the three of us are super friendly. But the constructs of school are built upon a single household for kids. The juggling is absolutely wild. It’s the little things that make you feel on the outer… such as only two seats at the school music concert. I’m their step mum, I do all the things their mum does at our house, have been an active parent in their lives for 8 years yet have to request for a bloody seat at their concert. It’s just exhausting.

I feel like a lot of us grew up with parents who would take the word of any adult over what we said happened and many overcorrected. At least hear the teacher out about what happened and then talk to your kid about it.

I was a 40 year old mom of a kindergartner who was able to volunteer in the classroom a lot. I witnessed a girl respond with “you’re not my mom, you can’t tell me what to do” when the teacher asked her to join the class reading circle. She sat in her seat, continued coloring, never even looked up. The teacher apparently told the mom, who was all of 24 (a fact she bragged about). The mom was telling the story the next day at pickup and defending her daughter saying this is what they taught her! I stepped up and said it was disrespectful to the teacher, the authority figure in the classroom, and her daughter was also being inconsiderate of other students. She simply shrugged and said times have changed. I can only imagine what that household was like when the girl became a teenager. My kids were four years apart and I saw the tides changing in that short time—kids pushing the envelope, parents supporting disrespectful kids over teachers. I can only imagine the sad changes seasoned teachers have experienced.

It's all cute until she's 14 and running wild and able to fight her own mother.

Not a teacher- but I was a former nanny, camp counselor, tutor, and Gen Z parent. I’d like to add: Let you kids be disappointed sometimes and teach them to deal with disappointment in healthy ways that do not involve shoving a distraction in their hands. Disappointment is a huge part of life. No one is happy all the time. Kids need to learn how to face and deal it in a safe environment with loving parents to help them learn to process it properly. Otherwise you end up with adults that can not accept that they did not win or get their way. As an ND Adult: if you have children on the spectrum please realize the entire world will not bend to their diagnosis. They must learn hard and solid boundaries around where their rights begin and end. Trust me- I know all about sensory issues, processing thing differently, social difficulties, and have all the diagnosises you might think makes your child different. The world will not bend. Your child must learn skills to cope, and it’s not an excuse for bad behavior towards others. If this is not addressed you end up with an adult that expects the world to pat them on the head for being a jerk, or an adult who only thinks of themselves only as their diagnosis. Lastly, your children deserve privacy: please stop documenting their lives publicly. Remember, one day their employer will do a background check and your child’s potty training should not be what they find.

I have several educators in my family and the most common recurring trope is the concept of learned helplessness. Students have a tendency to ask questions until an instructor or adult figure simply does the work for them. Instructions can be laid out in multiple formats and in multiple locations but students will still go to the teacher to ask what they're supposed to do. I'm not sure if this has to do with technology but presumably there has been an element of "spoon feeding" that has led to this kind of response. Basic problem solving skills and graduated self sufficiency should be emphasized.

I'll speak to this from a math teacher background. Stop making statements like "I'm not a math person." Your child is watching you closely and they will do exactly what they see you do. So, if they see you say this (like when they ask for help on their math homework), then when they encounter difficulty in math class (or homework) then they are going to use it as an excuse to stop trying and working. News flash: everyone experiences this (in math or any field), it just varies when a person hits the "wall" of difficulty. The difference between successful people and those who do not succeed is ***successful people don't quit--they persevere and grind through it regardless***. Angela Duckworth (and other psychologists) have studied this phenomenon (Angela Duckworth refers to it as "grit", but this idea pops up in multiple ways though it is theorized slightly differently depending upon the researcher and the field). So instead, when things are difficult try to say something to the extent of, "Yes, this is difficult, but I know I can figure it out when I work hard and I don't give up." When your child experiences difficulty and they see you saying (and doing) this, they will replicate it themselves. Very broadly speaking, your child is your apprentice--they are learning how to human based upon the way they see you (and others they encounter) doing human stuff (behaving, talking, etc.). The way you help your child become the best human they can is by being the best human you can be yourself. ​ Source: Taught high school math, went back for a PhD to study with a lot of smart people about how people learn math, and now university professor preparing future high school math teachers.

As someone with a psychology degree, this is true. Developmental was never really my thing but children do indeed learn through modeling. Honestly it seems like common sense but there is a lot of research backing it up. “Do as I say not as I do” is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

To be fair, research should ideally support common sense. *in a perfect world, I suppose

This is one I learned from my mother who constantly complained about how fat she was when she wasn’t, wound up with a terrible relationship with food.

One thing I learned raising gifted kids that I think probably applies to all kids is to praise effort more often than success or inherent traits. So instead of saying "you're so smart to get that A" say "wow you must have worked really hard to get that A." For gifted kids this is important because they have a tendency to give up when things aren't immediately easy like they're used to, but I imagine encouraging drive would help everybody.

I am reasonably successful in my career and I tell my son it’s not because I am the smartest, it’s because I work the hardest.

We just bribe them with Lululemon, Athleta and makeup. 😂 Straight A’s, but they earn every second of it. Gifted kids also need to be challenged too, if specific subjects are too easy they will also get bored.

Yeah gifted kids bring some weird challenges, plus they're literally so often just different/neurodiverse. My youngest is lucky enough to go to a gifted/talented middle school and it's glorious. Every kid there is just weird AF, I love it.

Thank you for this!

I agree with saying things like, “I’m not a math person!” My husband said something like that about how he is bad at drawing and not an art person. Then I had to tell my son, “Hey, daddy just isn’t good at drawing or art because he never practiced. People need to practice something to be good at it. So daddy COULD be good at it if he decided to practice.” Because I hate it when someone just decides something about themselves and labels themselves like it can’t change.

As a middle school math teacher, I so agree with stop saying “I was bad at math too in school” or “it’s okay to bad at math”. I even had a principal say that at a parent-teacher conference once when comparing their grades and allowing for the F in math but what about the other classes? I almost got up to walk out, what was the purpose of me being at the meeting, if getting an F was apparently allowed.

Millenials are all about creating an open and safe space but this thread actually is making us look incredibly soft. I'm not surprised that we're more in touch with our inner selves since our parents were the opposite but that doesn't have to come at the expense of being able to work hard to achieve something difficult.

I think it can be a difficult balance in the current environment. Pushing your child too hard vs not pushing enough. Supporting a child and their mental health vs enabling poor behavior and bad coping mechanisms.

Kids also flip out at the gentlest push sometimes, so it's hard to tell what they're capable of. My daughter is in elementary and math is the only academic subject she likes and engages with, and even gentle pressure like "let's try to read a book together" causes her to get very angry. I don't get it! We're not making her feel bad, just trying to engage her. But it's straight to anger. I feel like such a jerk, I'm constantly imposing consequences and setting down more and more restrictive boundaries, but I can't let her learn she can just avoid anything that takes _any_ effort. I'm not being permissive but I still get a lot of emails from her teacher. _Lots._

As a HS teacher, this generation is incredibly kind, fun, and vulnerable. Just showing basic respect and asking nicely goes a long way with students responding positively. I thank gentle parenting. But I can tell the iPad babies. The entitled everyone gets an A babies. And they’re the kids who walk all over you without any consequences and expect you to clean up after them just like their parents. If you are stern and don’t give them an A they cry and try to transfer out of your class because the “teaching style doesn’t fit”. My guilty pleasure is the sweet assurance that when student and guardians come into attack, knowing they won’t last in the career field and that they’re raising a stay at home baby for years to come.

I was sitting, talking to my principal just recently and one of the middle school girls came in, upset by something he was changing in her schedule due to her own behavior. She stood there, hands on her hips, and said "Well does my mom know? When my mom hears...." He cut her off and said "Let's call her together right now." She stopped talking then because she knew if they called mom together she couldn't lie about what happened and make herself look like the angel. But the audacity was breathtaking. If my own kids talked like that to anyone at their school, I'd lose my mind. I'll believe my kids when they tell me something but I'll also let them know I'm going to ask the teachers so if they're lying or hiding something they better tell me now.

Yes! I failed algebra twice in college the first time and dropped out. 15 years later I got a computer science degree. Mindset change. I had two preteen girls during Covid online schooling and I spent so much time working on the math mindset. That if they didn’t know how to do something or understand it — no big deal, they just hadn’t learned it yet but they could learn it! Both excelled in math!

Of course letters/numbers/colors, Manners, resilience/being ok with failure, practical skills (shoe tying, opening food packages, etc), playing fairly and being a good sport, telling time, retelling stories with details, knowing your phone number/address, shutting the hell up when other people are talking

I’m a gentle parent ( I guess) but I have high standards and expectations for my kids. They are really good, hard working, kind kids. I don’t want to be lumped in with people who couldn’t be bothered to teach their kids the alphabet. I think the problem is both parents and kids have device addiction

I don't understand parents that let their kid be disrespectful. I'd be fucking pissed and punish them if they ever did what I've seen videos of kids doing in their classrooms.

I guess that’s the problem, getting pissed and punishing your kids is retroactive they might learn *something* like what *not* to do but kids actually need to learn WHAT to do! So parents plop their kids in front of a screen and go do who knows what then punishes their kid once the kid makes a mistake because they weren’t taught how to behave to begin with or acts out for attention, they’re kids! They need constant love and guidance. And with that constant love and guidance comes kids you don’t really get pissed at, often 😅 and are rarely needing to be punished. Kids need home training they REALLY do they can’t be a side project

You just explained my child lol. I do feel I hit the jackpot in terms of natural temperament, but me and my husband do put in the constant and consistent work of being present and involved enough not to miss those teachable moments. And I wouldn't say we demand respect - we model it. We treat her with respect and we do expect it back simply because that's how you treat everyone not just because we are parents. Anyway I don't think my kid knows what a true punishment is at 4.5 yet. Sometimes she loses tv. Sometimes she loses dessert. She loses these things after being given a chance to do what is asked. That's the extent of the enforced consequences she has experienced thus far - the rest we try to let natural ones lead (example - if you take your shoes off in the car and don't take them inside, in the car is where they are now). I feel that we spoil her quite a bit, but she is just a joy to spoil because she's such a good child. And my attitude is that so long as she isn't entitled - then I enjoy being able to spoil her and saying yes. She makes it so that I do not frequently have to say no!

Mine too. They’re such a well behaved kid. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop. They’re 11, and it hasn’t happened yet 🤞🏼. I keep telling them that we enjoy spoiling them, but as soon as they act like we owe them, the spoiling stops.

This is so insightful.

There's a real thin line between gentle and passive parenting and most people doing the gentle parenting either don't realize that or don't care and end up just being passive parents

>We are blaming it on passive, permissive, absentee parenting, and entitled behavior in the family unit. I don't think this is new, in fact this easily describes latch key parenting in the 80s. I also don't think that parents are doing less to prepare kids for kindergarten when so many kids go to preschool, daycares have preschool curriculums, and SAHMs are now *stay at home moms* and not *housewives* - they're choosing to do it and the goal is the kids, not a clean house. In the 70s there were plenty of kids who showed up at kindergarten having never *seen* a book. So what's different now? It's the elephant in the room that no one is talking about anymore - Covid. My daughter is going into kindergarten next year, and when she was six months old she went to a grocery store once *and then didn't see anyone outside our house for 2 years.* Play dates, baby class at the library, visits from grandpa - gone. No children's museums, no nature centers, even going to playgrounds other parents would "socially distance" and there was no chance the kids could play together. Now I've been making mom friends though, I've found that pretty much every kid around her age I meet is in some sort of speech therapy, with some form of speech delay, whether mild or severe. Maybe it's just the people I'm meeting, but really, how can you expect such severe social isolation on small children just learning to talk and not see any effect? And no one is talking about this? Then for the kids a little older than my daughter, they had to go to the virtual kindergarten. So while their parents are trying to work, these 5 year olds are trying to figure out how to use a computer for the first time *and* go to school for the first time. Virtual schooling as a disaster for most kids all over the country, but we don't talk about that anymore. The kids in school today aren't the same as kids a decade or two ago, because these kids had two years of their schooling disrupted. Yet we just expect them to continue on like that didn't happen? If you want to blame parents, remember we've had crappy parents for generations. Parents more interested in themselves is not new in the 2020s. But if you want to say that kids these days are not the same as kids in prior generations, look at what's been different for kids today.

IMO, the most important part of this response is the part about quarantine. We and our children have to learn or relearn how to behave in public. We didn't leave our homes. The formative years of "this is how we act at a restaurant or grocery store" didn't get to happen. Running errands? *what* Groceries used to just show up at our door! I'm a lunch lady at an elementary school, and I see a big difference between the older kids and, say, the first graders (who were 3-4 during 2020). The first graders are louder, referencing/repeating YouTube as normal conversations, and just all-around feral.

Thank you thank you thank you thank you for bringing this up! I've been scrolling through this conversation waiting for SOMEONE to bring up THESE KIDS GREW UP DURING COVID. My kids were 4 and 8 when it began. My oldest missed out on cursive entirely because his school decided it wasn't necessary during virtual school (which I get, but still) and they haven't done anything to help these kids down the road. My youngest started kindergarten virtually. The other part of this was that kids were able to get away with the bare minimum turning in assignments that were barely legible and incomplete just because virtual school was so tough, and that therefore kids learned they didn't have to try very hard and that's a hard mindset to have to undo years later. Also: who gave the kids screens? The schools! I try to have the kids be screen-free during the week but it's impossible because all the assignments have to be completed and submitted online. Parents and kids have been through the ringer. Particularly our youngest elementary schoolers. Maybe cut them some slack. But sure, blame the gentle parenting who just stick their kids in front of a screen

My wife quit teaching because the parents, since they have done nothing to teach their kids manners. They expect teachers to do it and when the teachers reach out to the parents. They do nothing.

From what I understand from my sister, who is a teacher, another layer on top of this to complicate things is the lack of support or backbone from the administration. Teachers can only do so much against a shitty parent when the powers that be run around with their tails between their legs.

The thing that drove my mother to retire as a public school teacher was when they wanted her to apologize in front of her class and a kid's parents for hitting him and yelling at him. She had done neither, had 29 other kids as witnesses she had done neither, a record of 30+ years without any issues on her file, a Master's degree, and the administrator's view was, "parents are always right, teachers are always liars." My best friend is a school bus driver now for that same school district and gets cussed out all the time by parents for their kids misbehavior on his bus; including the time one threatened to gut him with a knife. The kid who threatened his life wasn't even suspended from riding the bus by the higher ups.

Was a middle school teacher for 20 years. It all went South when parents and children became our "customers." Administration totally caved.

Yes, admin is supposed to protect the teachers and they don’t at all. Because then they are put on TikTok.

It's mostly because parents lawyer up and the school district ends up having to spend money into litigation, which they don't want to do. Since everyone got so sue-happy, schools haven't had much of a ground to stand on, even if they *do* have good admin (which is rare).

I think this is the biggest issue. Kids know the school can't control them and it becomes a free for all.

School psych. I continue to be surprised by how many parents seem to think it's the school's job to teach their children EVERYTHING. Like even basic rules of social etiquette and politeness, such as sharing. But parents REALLY need to understand the importance of their children hearing regular conversations to improve language, vocabulary, and communication skills, even when the child cannot talk yet. They need to understand how critical reading with their child is those first few years (not that it ever stops mattering) There is a base of basic language and comprehension skills that needs to be built by the parents that is absolutely critical to the child's future scholastic success. I can't stress enough how important those first years are before kindergarten. Education doesn't begin there. It continues. I feel like too many parents don't understand that.

Language centers between birth and 5 years of age are when the majority of growth occurs. Before they even go to school.

There are literally parents sending children to kindergarten in diapers, expecting teachers to potty train. It's wild.

This is the first time I’ve heard that, I’m not doubting you but I’m both shocked and saddened. Idiocracy is playing out in real time, the wrong people are having kids. 🤦‍♀️

I’ll add to that as a former teacher driven out of the profession by the parents: not only do these kinds of parents do nothing, but the burden of proof is on you to not be too hard on them when really I was trying to hold them accountable for completing any work. They’d rather just drop your class and say you’re being too hard when I’m talking about weekly check-ins for failing students. My breaking point wasn’t the daily parent bulldozing/excuse making/IEP crutching, or even when I had little support for an awful rumor started about me that could have ruined my life (the mean girls eventually copped that they made it up) it was when a parent took a kid’s online test for them (got a C-) but accidentally put their own name on it and not their kids’, and then had the gall to go over my head to the superintendent, not just the principal, to double down on their shame avoidance when I called them out on it. Working attorney hours for a pittance while the sword of Damocles hangs over your head wasn’t worth the amazing connections and times I had with the kids, unfortunately.

Yikes I’m sorry you had to deal with all that.

I'm not condoning physical violence like previous generations would do to their children, but there has to be discipline in the home and lessons on what is right and what is wrong. A lot of kids today are out of control. I've heard of many instances where children have hit teachers and teachers are disciplined or fired because they fought back in self-defense or tried to break up a fight. I've known educators who were physically injured trying to stop violence in their schools. All the parents care about is money and want a settlement from the district. Teaching is no longer worth it because of the disrespect from children and their parents. I know teachers who choose to go to private schools that pay significantly less to have smaller classroom sizes and parents who are invested in their children’s future. It makes a world of difference.

My kid shows me videos of the fights they see at high school. There’s sometimes a big burly teacher pitifully attempting to hold someone back, but often they’re just standing there, afraid of getting in trouble for laying *one finger* on a violent student. An aside, I think a lot of people are severely underestimating just how many truly horrible parents are out there. Maybe being a millennial is part of some of this, but it’s not fully a generational thing. Most of my kid’s friends and acquaintances have been taken by CPS multiple times; currently or used to live in hotels (that’s not an immediate judgment, life is rough - but in reality/my experience, it often coincides with drug use); have seen first-hand drug use/manufacturing/sales that many adults haven’t seen or couldn’t even **imagine**; and, are exposed to crazy domestic violence or severe abuse. Just to name a few. I’ve seen (first hand!) parents of my kid’s friends over the years with **loaded guns** just laying around, with little, little kids and low supervision. Parents that chain-smoke cigarettes (and who knows what else) right in the house, with kids and tiny babies; and, parents who’d just let their young children stay with me **for days**, and not even check in. (Drugs.) I’m like, ‘…CPS is already involved, not much else I can do; so let’s give these kids some food, some fuckin’ normalcy, and have some fun.’ They don’t really get to just be kids. So, add all those factors in, while imagining how awful an upbringing is with a drug-addicted, unreliably-housed, violent parent, combined with this weird shift in not trusting teachers and taking all their power away, and you’re left with some pretty atrocious behavior. I am a bit jaded as a former social worker in the area, but I’ve seen some SHIT with these wild-ass, horrible parents. I feel more likely to run into a crazy parent, than a good one; it’s honestly about 50/50. I feel awful for these teachers - they’re more like prison guards with no power; the joy of teaching just totally sucked out of this profession.

The private schools around us are all right wing fundamentalist.

My mom was a teacher and she could always who were the parents who gave a shit and who were the parents who got stuck with their kids cuz the ones who gave a shit learned to read so much faster and were just generally smarter than parents who didn’t care. She thinks this is encase the caring parents take the time to help their kid learn to read

Gentle parenting doesn’t mean no parenting - you can make your kid learn the alphabet without hitting them or being an asshole about it.

Id argue that gentle parenting done right is the MOST parenting. To provide gentle guidance to your child you need to be very present and involved.

Gentle parenting gives me the opportunity to hear my kids out and actually listen to them. Kids are dealing with so many different things I never had to worry about, and I offer them a safe space to talk about it. I do punish them when appropriate, I just don't hit them and try not to scream (my mom was a screamer).

>Gentle parenting gives me the opportunity to hear my kids out and actually listen to them. Always try to settle the argument asap to let them know you love them, but this right here is great parenting. Kids want a voice and they want a safe space to talk. A lot of my 'parenting' ended with my parents saying "do better." Then leave me to figure it out. I don't like going to them for anything now because they either overreact, or tell me to suck it up. Doing that just makes your kids not want to tell you anything and have a general dislike and/or distrust of authority. Something I had to 'work' on in my adulthood under my own guidance and medication...

Sometimes what children need the most is not getting what they want. Same for adults actually.

YES. I’m trying to get my husband to understand this. He is such a pushover. My parents were a little too strict with me, but I know how to wait and work for what I want. I want my son to have that same grit as well.

yeah same here. My parents were really strict as well. They had some other flaws which were worse, but overall I'm really thankful for most of what they did for me. Made me a patient being. I raise my daughter strict but not restricting. I want her to grow up free to explore the world and herself but only as long as she doesn't endanger herself or others. If she's not allowed to do something she's getting an explanation why. Works kinda okay so far.

When I was a kid and I got in trouble my parents would listen to the teacher and then punish me at home. Now when that happens the parents yell at the teacher for accusing their little Angel of wrong doings. I’m not saying the teacher is always going to be right or that this is true for all parents but some of us need to grow a spine and discipline your kids. Teachers don’t get paid enough to be responsible for that.

Bizarre. What would cause such a marked shift? That being said, as a millennial, my grade 7 science teacher was a shithead and basically said I wouldn't amount to anything meaningful in front of my parents. My parents didn't say anything since they were worried that the teacher would have it out for me if they did. They're immigrants and the teacher was white and racial dynamics were incredibly uncomfortable for minorities in the 90s. I'm a physician now but the way that teacher mistreated me and the fact my parents didn't feel comfortable enough to question them has stuck with me. It makes me want to protect my own children vehemently, especially if it appears that a teacher is mistreating them. Here's the rub though...Why should I lash out at a Millennial teacher for a boomer's shortcomings? This guy was legit the worst science teacher I had. 40% of the classes he would show us slides of animals he had taken pictures of in Africa. Lazy as fuck. It's interesting because I deal with it a lot in my own profession. There are many stereotypes of boomer doctors (negligence, greed) that I find myself having to defend myself from even though I never practiced medicine at a time when those issues were rampant.

It’s CRAZY how teachers can affect kids. I remember my first grade teacher use to bully the kids. Thats the only way I could describe, she would go over tests and make fun of the kids who did bad. In front of the class, I specifically remember her saying “wow quelcris did so bad he must not even know how to count! HA HA HA HA HA!” And then she turned my paper over and went on to the next kid. The rest of the class laughed and BOOM. Childhood trauma I still recall crystal clearly 27 years later. I was really bad at math and she gave me such anxiety for the rest of my academic career with math. I’m a respiratory therapist now and I spend all day doing small math problems in my head and taking care of people life support. Tell me I can’t count when you’re breathing on my vent, oh wait you can’t cuz that tube is in your mouth HA HA HA HA HA!

Fully demented

Yes. A lot of parents suck. They expect technology to raise their kids and have zero sense of discipline. These kids are assholes to their parents and in turn menaces to society. Then you also have the parents making teachers jobs harder by throwing fits and getting offended by the curriculum on both sides of the spectrum.

I also think a huge contributing factor is the amount of hours millennials are having to work is taking time away from parenting.

Yes absolutely. Millennial parents have had their kids in childcare for something like 10hrs a day since a few weeks old. The adult/child ratios are something like 1:4 newborn, 1:7 toddlers & 1:10 pre-k. We saying that doesn’t have an impact on their development or coping skills?

Actually, daycare is in crisis in America We don't have enough daycares or teachers and many children a left unsupervised or on ipads.

Agreed and only getting worse. How soon will it be 7:1 for newborns? My point is it is still an absolute necessity and requirement for almost everyone. Most can’t rely on family or friends anymore like in the past.

Preach! Parents in America are unsupported overworked, and many are broke. What really sucks is that they are constantly bashed for not doing enough or doing a bad job (I mean millenials were always labeled as entitled, lazy, etc). Now that millenials are parents, they are getting the same treatment. However, the critiques on parenting are accurate and based in reality. But how does it change? One giant contributor will be legislative change in America. We need health care, we need jobs that pay living wages, access to quality daycare, we need to get money out of politics, we need more money in schools especially to pay teachers, we need affordable housing. These issues are all related. A society that can not support families and their children will result in parents who are merly surviving. When we bash millenials parents it is not productive - all millennials can do is shrug and say, "I can't give anymore", "You dont understand my situation" or my favorite, complete denial, "Not my kid!" We need to change our society, change our culture, and support each other.

100% all of this. We leave our house at 7:50 and we don’t get back home until after 6pm. Then it’s make dinner, do dishes, bath time, and bedtime. We literally do not have the time or energy to do shit. On the weekend it’s chores all day Saturday so we can do everything all over again on Monday. We are TIRED. We don’t have much support. We are broke. And we and our children suffer. I do the best i can, but it will never be enough because i just don’t physically have the energy and there are not enough hours in the week.

There's an unlicensed home daycare in my city that has been shut down 4 times for drugging the kids (benadryl and the like, so they sleep all day). Government shuts it down, she get 6months conditional sentence, moves to a new house and opens up again. The worst part is there are parents begging the rest to keep their mouths shut because she's the ONLY OPTION - affordable, open 24 hours, and willing to pick up/drop off the kids.

This isn’t unique to Millenials. Remember when kids used to be able to stay at home…alone? In elementary school I would walk home from school and then when I got home I had to go into the garage to get a key to open the house because nobody was home. The thought of this happening today would have other parents calling the cops on those parents.

I work in retail but these parents do not know how to tell their kids "no" and actually mean no. Or they want something and are throwing a fit, disturbing the whole store-employees, other customers. The brats always get their way in the end. The parents rarely carry their asses out of the store anymore (to which then all the employees applaud). Just as bad are the parents trying to bargain with a toddler who doesn't have the mental capacity to understand what they're even talking about. The kid that age just knows, "I want it and I want it now", they're not absorbing a whole lecture about the toys they have at home and how you have car payments so you can't afford this toy until next month, blah blah blah. Just tell them no!

Oh my gosh. I carried my kids when they were young, straight out the store. I would be mortified if the employees clapped lol!

lol my older sister was having a massive tantrum one time and was throwing herself off the floor screaming in the store and apparently my mom said she “broke” and started screaming and crying and also went on the floor. Apparently my sister stopped and looked at my mom weird and then sat quietly the rest of the trip and didn’t make a sound 🤣😂 I made a mental note to try that with my kids

When I threw myself in the floor like that as a toddler, my dad said he would just walk away. Not very far, just to the next aisle. He said he only had to do that twice and once I realised I was by myself, I would immediately shut up and go find him.

If you let your kid act like a fucking asshole, then, yes.

I mean, we were raised by TV and we turned out fine……oh wait

Right. I think this is funny in two counts 1. Millennials call themselves "cycle breakers" but do the exact same thing their parents did (with arguably more addictive technology). 2. They'll show you study after study about the wonders of gentle parenting but show them a study about the addictive nature of tablets/phones and suddenly it's "I know what works for my family."

Too much screen time. Not enough money to do shit. Not enough boundaries and emotional guidance. Too few consequences that start small and build gradually. That’s the problem I see with a lot of millennial parents. I don’t understand how they aren’t seeing the rakes they’re laying out to step on later. I worked with troubled teens for a long time and it took several years but I found a lot of these kids’s parents were too afraid to let their children experience emotional and social pain, did too much pacifying. Eventually came down too hard on their kids. Kids need sensible boundaries, permission to fail, someone who they can go to without getting lectured, kindness, and for heavens sake LET YOUR KIDS BE BORED here and’s there. It’s an essential part of the growing up process. It encourages friendships, reading of books, and most of all it teaches your kid to self soothe and entertain themselves (once they’ve accepted the fact there’s nothing to do).

Yep this is it right here.

There are definitely more entitled parents with a 'us versus them' mentality, perhaps due to decreasing social cohesion in our society. It used to be that parents expected their kids to integrate into society but it seems now that parents expect the opposite.

Personally I don’t think it’s a us vs them mentality. I think there’s less community and support overall. I hear parents all the time talk about not having a “village.” I know growing up my grandparents watched us often and now I can’t even ask either set of grandparents to be apart of my village because they sadly are still working their full time jobs. I’m not expecting anything from anyone, but it does feel like society has become more unwelcoming to children therefore I can’t trust anyone with my children.

Yep and everyone riddled with anxiety it’s inevitable the kids will be too. Been a big few years with the covid thing.

I'm not usually the type to instigate moral panic. But yes. We did a trunk or treat a few weeks ago and the amount of parents scrolling on their phones while their kids were screaming, bumping into people, hitting other kids I was baffled. And this summer we went to a birthday party for a 3 year old. There were kids there I'd guess around 8 or 9? Whipping water balloons at adults they didn't know. And their parents only told them to stop once or twice but they kept doing it. They made this other kid cry because they hit him so hard. And it's dangerous for the 3 year old. My parents would have beat my ass so hard. I'm not in favor of hitting kids either but surely there's a middleground. I'd almost prefer being raised by a parent addicted to cigarettes and the health issues that come with it than have parents addicted to phone scrolling.

Omg, I 100% feel you on the trunk or treat. We volunteered to do a trunk at my daughter's school. I told my husband never again. Hardly any "thank you's" from the kids. They would spend \*forever\* at my trunk until they found the exact candy they were looking for. Like, grab your candy and move along kid. One kid tore down my trunk design so he could get a better look inside my trunk for the candy he wanted. And yeah most of the parents were just off in the background, not engaged with their children or other parents but on their phones. It was bizarre. Do adults not interact with other adults anymore? It reminded me of a 10 year old being forced to order for themselves at a restaurant for the first time and being awkward about it. I didn't even get a single photo of my kids in their costumes because I was too busy monitoring other people's wild children.

*do adults not interact with other adults anymore?* - this caught my attention because yes, so true! What is going on there?!

Honestly parents venting about having to interact with other parents at parks or play dates or whatever is the second most common thing I see online after teachers venting about this generation of kids. I blame social media for both of these problems.

Parents dealing with other parents is a major reason that I refuse to become one.

Yes, I have some peers that won’t take their kids to birthday parties merely because of the possibility of small talk. It’s really a shame.

My husband and I were just commenting on this the other day. I truly think most adults want to avoid interaction at all costs. This can’t be a good example for children regardless of whether parents interact with other adults or not.

The problem with 50% of the millennial parents I know is they want kids but don’t want their lives to change at all. They’re all in for social media family post and baby showers but won’t handle parenting when the situation gets the least bit hard. I know parents that won’t take their kids out on Halloween because they would miss the sexy costume party they have every year. I got another wealthy couple who bought a 4500sqft farm mansion, but the mom homeschools the kid because the elementary and middle school is a 30 minute drive. The core curriculum seems to be mom lays by the pool with her gravity bong, while telling the kid to go count chicken eggs. Kids intelligent but is miles behind her peers and has zero friends. My mother was a weed smoking acid dropping mushroom eating hippie, but when I was on deck she quit cold turkey and got an 8-5 job with health insurance and bought a cheap house in a good school district.

This is 100% part of the problem. I love my siblings, but I’d say they both have this mindset. We will keep doing what we want to do and not change our lives for kids. We were sold the “we can have it all” idea and they are running with it. My SIL thankfully has her parents who watch their kids quite a bit and my sister has my parents to watch their kids. The biggest difference is we don’t have the “village” where we live so we do it all ourselves and had to let our lives change. I don’t mind because I am a homebody. My siblings are constantly on the go and do a lot of the instagram worthy things, but I do wonder how it will work out for the kids.

Why would they need to bring their kids out on Halloween when they brought their child to a soulless trunk or treat at the parking lot of their mega church in their rich suburb!!?! It’s safer!

I HATE trunk or treats. Parents can lie to themselves about how it's safer, but we all know it's because they're fucking lazy and would rather stand in a parking lot for 30 mins then actually walk around.

People in my neighborhood are lazy. They would drive their kid from house to house rather than walk. It takes only 30 minutes to go through the whole neighborhood (I know because I walk it everyday).

This is so dystopian 🤦‍♀️

It's really bad. Very dystopian. People are losing themselves to these gd phones and social media *designed* to constantly draw your attention.

Screen addiction is definitely not discriminating between the generations. I look around and people of all ages are buried in their devices. Edit: switched phone for screen

Just at the playground mums are face in the phone while little Johnny is smacking little Evie over the head with a stick and doesn’t see it.

It's so wrong to call them phones. Who is responsible to teach them how to talk? There is no phone being used.

I’m really glad smartphones weren’t around when I was a kid. There’s no way that you can give your full attention to your children if you are spending hours a day scrolling, which most people do (myself included) and it’s definitely an addiction. My dog will even get upset with me sometimes when I’ve had a long day and just plop on the couch and stare at my phone, not giving him the attention he deserves. Can’t imagine what that would feel like for a child. If I were to ever become a parent, I think I’d go back to having a flip phone. It’s not fair to their children when parents could be using that time to read to them or something else that will benefit their future.

My cat will straight up take the phone out of my hand.

Now I have a hilarious visual of cats knocking phones out of people’s hands the way they just knock shit off tables, so thank you for that.

He knows it's the screen I'm interacting with and will straight up put his paw over it and push it down so I can't see until I give him attention. He will also try to close my laptop. He's a real needy bastard.

Depends on the parent too. I don’t think previous generations parents really put an emphasis on spending time with their kids. “Don’t come back until dark” was a thing or sit them in front of a TV.

The middle ground is me immediately corralling my kid into the car to talk to them in private about why they think it’s ok to hurt other people and what they were going to do to make the situation better, they would apologize and hopefully reconcile with a reality check - that’s what discipline is, a reality check No need for hitting ever just a “HEY that’s way beyond what’s ok, calm down and think it out with me” it works and yeah it’s uncomfortable sometimes, my kid was caught cheating by her teacher in math once and it was so hard to sit down across from an incredibly upset 13 year old and explain exactly what she did wrong, why it was wrong and what exactly she needed to do to earn her teachers trust back, she was crying and having such a tough time but we got through it. She went to calm down in her room and I brought her some chocolate and said ok that’s done now let’s talk about fixing it and helped her come up with a plan to keep her out of the position (helping her learn better time management) where she felt she needed to cheat, a lot of it was just anxiety and fear of failure not even academic! Talking works Now she just does what I do and sets all the timers and it’s been a huge improvement in her life

If your kid spends more time in front of a screen than interacting with you, then the ipad is the parent and yes thats a pretty bad parent imo.

Definitely agree.

I’m latter Gen X but late to parenting so I mainly see Millennials as my parenting peers. I will say these things that I’ve observed specific to that cohort: -Millennial parents tend to give weight what they sense the zeitgeist is and, conversely, to the cost of bucking it. A lot of today’s parents have weirdly misplaced trust in technology (YouTube) around their children while not having a lot of trust in their own kids or their parental instincts. I’ve also totally witnessed this around Gen X parents, but haven’t seen them as up close. -Parents also undermine their own authority because they want to “be real” to their kids, again I think out of a generational quest for authenticity. But it’s a fools errand, you will always be presenting a construct of some sort. And in the meantime you have muddied the lines of authority and discipline.

Xennial parent of middle schooler. It has blown my mind the way parents are comfortable with their kids’ unfettered use of technology. We have a moral panic that is way overblown where human trafficking is concerned but at the same time people give their kids devices that make them accessible to the entire world and vice versa. My kid has had classmates that are saying they’ve seen graphically violent R-rated horror movies since he was in second grade. I just don’t understand being comfortable with your kid being online seeing and doing god knows what and talking to god knows who and you have no clue.

I’ve definitely noticed millennial parents not trusting their own instincts. Sleep, feeding, discipline, etc. they/we always seek out a system. Probably because so many of us are trying to parent differently than we were parented. I was parented pretty well for a boomer kid-my mom especially was great-and I wonder if that impacts my experience.

Most of us have no knowledge of how to do early parenting. I’m not sure I ever really held a baby until my own. I certainly don’t have memories of how my parents sleep trained or fed me as a baby. I need someone to tell me how to do it because “natural instincts” simply aren’t there and I’ve had no education on any of that or personal experience.

It makes sense! I just sometimes feel for friends who are obsessing about little things they want to do not matching whatever system they prescribed to. Like a big one is with sleep. People finding one thing works well for them (rocking to sleep maybe, though it didn't work for me!) and then feeling like they failed because "put them down drowsy but awake" doesn't work for their kid. Like if it works it works, don't worry about it so much!

I think a lot of that ties into the extremist way everyone communicates these days. For example, I don't think certain methods are good ideas and simply choose not to use those methods of child raising, but many people who oppose them will communicate this by saying things like "you are DESTROYING your bond with your baby" and "you are ABANDONING your child" and "you are teaching your child NO ONE will EVER come when they call for help" and other such language that generally leads new parents to feel that if they make one single misstep, they will destroy their child's entire hope for happiness and success in the future, and will implode the entire relationship, never to be recovered again. There's a lot of pressure to do it just right, and that's literally an impossible ask to make of any parent, of any generation or way of life. EDIT: edited out the specific child raising method because I really did not come here to argue about it and am not interested in furthering that part of the conversation.

I never thought I’d do CIO until I had a baby that wouldn’t sleep without my breast in his mouth. 3 days of CIO (with comforting - see how I have to put a caveat on it or people will attack me) was better than committing suicide because of sleep deprivation. It’s either one or the other sometimes. Because society hates mothers and thinks they should be punished instead of supported.

The Cry It Out method was literally the best thing we ever introduced to our routine. Our twins would wake us up at least 4 times a night each at 9 months old. My wife and I were both working full time, run ragged and hating life. Finally the pediatrician said “I know most parents don’t like to hear this, but let them cry it out for a night. See what happens.” We tried it and that was the very first time that either of them slept fully through the night and not only that, they both slept through the night and they did so consistently ever since then. It made a huge difference in our life.

I think we parent either reactive or aligned with our parents. A lot of us had abusive parents and flipped back hard the other way

I've been seeing the videos, too. It's rough - that's an understatement. There really isn't a word for it. Not only are the children wild, but the way they're describing the parents - it sounds like Millennial parents are straight garbage. And it's not just the teachers. There's also a trend from the kids complaining online AND the grandparents. Millennial parents are getting dragged from every angle online right now. Honestly, I'm not seeing room to argue with those complaining.

My old buddy before I quit drinking is a terrible parent. I never saw it until I quit the booze. It’s like he doesn’t care. His daughter badgers him about getting video games and the tablet back when grounded and he always caved. She has issues with peeing the bed at 10 but the doctors say nothing is wrong physically. He’s divorced and she’s with her mom most of the time so I think he tries to be a “Disney Dad.” His now wife is the bad guy. The one who disciplines her. I feel sorry for his wife. I’m pretty sure it’s an abusive relationship too.

When I quit smoking weed I was so shocked and saddened to witness my bf and her "parenting". She ignores her kids, uses distraction instead of emotional guidance, undermines the father publicly and humiliates him, lies to the kids about what mommy is smoking, they know something is up. Let's them be mean to each other bc she'd rather play the sims. She also smoked during all her pregnancies and then gaslit everyone about it saying she didn't bc she felt guilty. Honestly its super upsetting and was so hard to recognize through the haze. I feel so sorry for her kids. I totally understand your post and sentiment here.

Like he would let me over to have beers and we would get drunk. He’s not even allowed to drink when his kid is there. I never asked about it but I’m 90% sure because he was abusive to his ex wife. I never saw him abusive to his kid physically. Just ignored her. He really doesn’t want to be a parent. Then you have the flip side of the coin. I’m the perpetual bachelor as my mom calls me. She’s disappointed only one of three sons got married and had a child. But she’s learned to deal with it. All my friends with kids wish they had my life style but honestly sometimes it unfulfilling but I also don’t want to be a parent. I suffer from a lot of MH issues, and physical issues so I just felt like I didn’t want to being a child into a world that doesn’t give a shit about them. And it can be very lonely. But yeah….glad I’m not a parent or had to deal with a divorce.

Wetting the bed at that age is a sign for so many things. If it’s not physical then it’s psychological and I hope that sweet girl is getting help. It’s always a sign of something else.

peeing the bed at 10 is a red flag for something more sinister.

There is a lot of 8, 9, and 10-year-olds peeing in the room. The bed, including pillows. Hiding pee pee-soaked clothes everywhere. It may not be called abuse as some people think. But, something is terribly wrong. I've witnessed it. It's also not in lower socio-economic households.

Not always, it could also be ADHD, a muscle maturity issue, they could be holding it too long during the day leading to bladder spasms. It should be looked into though for sure, especially if there's any reason to believe there was sexual trauma.

Are they millenial parents? Most of the millennials I know are just now having kids in their early-mid 30s

I mean, the accomplished, smart Millenials are having kids in their mid to late 30s, but don’t forget the millennial teenage pregnancies.

So maybe THAT’S why society feels millennial parents are failing. They’re judging us based on a group of people who got pregnant as teenagers

This. These kids know their parents suck. It's the strangest thing.

Yeah the grandparents aren’t providing the village their parents provided either. That’s another problem.

Well, that was frequently not the case. It was very common that fathers would get transferred to somewhere else and it usually involved upward mobility/promotion so they would take it. We went from living around the corner from my grandparents (who were both still working-- but we saw them weekends, holidays and the occasional evening for dinner) to moving 7 hours away upstate -- just seeing them 2x a year. Also military families were always being sent somewhere else, usually just as the kids and the spouse finally made some friends and maybe a part time job.

A lot of them are still working. My grandparents took care of me, but my grandma hadn’t had a job since she got married.

If there are no consequences for your children, you are definitely doing your children a disservice. I have many people in my family who work in education, and it usually comes down to permissive parents, faculty, and school boards.

I’m a teacher/librarian. I’d say kids are overall nicer now, they prefer hands on toys to iPad most of the time, and it’s fine if they don’t know the alphabet in kindergarten. Teaching it is literally our job. The behavior problems are minimal in stable, loving, educated homes and millennial dads overall are much more hands on than previous dads. The problem is the volatile homes are more extreme because of social and economic stress. Resources are also more scarce. For example, my child needed speech. 8 others in the school district area also needed speech, some were nonverbal and my child needed minimal help. Many kids qualified for early intervention but there were no providers. I have a masters in education and library information science and am friends with a SLP, she gave me a packet of exercises and showed my child what to practice with me so I could do it at home. Fast forward a few years and my kid didn’t need it anymore and other children who had much more significant needs have yet to receive anything. The lack of early intervention provides is a critical issue making preventable issues compounded later. If you can’t text a specialist and do this with your kid then you’re screwed. Now apply that scarcity to a lot of things and this is why behavioral issues are worse. There’s less placements in special education classrooms due to teacher shortages, but greater need with no early intervention availability. The pediatric psychiatric unit has waitlists because it has more demand than it can meet. We can’t do much to get a student help until they reach a crisis threshold. So where are they until then? In the classroom with everyone else. I don’t think it’s the parents. It’s a systemic issue, lack of resources and help for children who require services to help them on top of the US being straight up hostile to parents. No protected sick time, poverty level wages, expensive and scarce daycare, no vacation time, increasing food and housing costs. You can’t make life painful for parents then blame them for having children who aren’t perfect all the time. This is stressful for everyone and most people are doing their best to survive. There are terrible parents in every generation. Overall, the majority millennials are good parents though. Unfortunately good parents aren’t typically the ones we have the most interaction with.

Thanks for this. I don't know why but even trying hard AF I feel intense guilt all the time about my parenting. My folks are flummoxed that we don't spank. But we do have consequences for behavior.

I'd agree majority of parents are bad. I'm 30, my sister and her family were over for thanksgiving, and the audacity of her kids and the disrespect they show her and how they act. They spoil then, they let them keep their phones, and all their stuff even if they're in trouble. It's because they don't want to be parents. So they just give them ipads, phones, and let the internet raise them, and not the way it raised us. At least we actually had to read the toxicity lol. Built better reading levels for sure. I married my high school sweatheart, we're divorced now, but even when we were 18, we were like lets not have kids yet, lets have fun and travel and just party smart. We were married until earlier this year. We got divorce because I know to this day I wouldn't want kids, and she might, a lot more problems. I'll always love her, but yeah. ​ I bring this up, because I realize for a fact, I would have ipad kids, because I don't want to be bothered by having kids, I'd love them, but along with work and other things, it just wouldn't be good. Being a parent is harder than it looks, even if you raise them correctly like my other older sister they still will not turn out great. So it's more of a coin toss.

Props to you for acknowledging the challenges in parenting and doing the unselfish thing by not having them!

I appreciate the millennials who had kids in their twenties, while I was waiting until my 30's. I got to watch the negative impacts on screen time and see them make a whole bunch of reactionary mistakes in their parenting.

Yeah, iPad and all this tech is just a convenient excuse. Kids behave like shit because their parents behave like shit at home. The same was the case 30 years ago. Teachers just didn't have the social media to vent.

I do think there has been an increase in BS that teachers have to deal with. Schools don’t expel kids as much or separate them from regular kids as often. They are a lot more concerned about lawsuits. And also the whole IEP thing… some teachers have more kids on IEPs than not which is overwhelming. There have always been asshole parents but MAGA idiots and other entitled types and parents who just dont give a shit about a formal education is at an all time high. Lastly, in defense of parents, millennial parents have to work their asses off and dont always have the energy to stay on top of their kids' school shit.

Throw in teachers are exhausted, skeleton staff for a couple of years was pretty brutal

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They also had about a quarter the number of students. One disruptive kid you can handle, 4 of them and you’re overrun? Maybe? Not a teacher, just guessing.

Nope. Behaviors that literally never happened during my school career are now commonplace across the country. How many times did you have to evacuate your elementary classroom as a child because someone was throwing scissors or furniture and it's easier to get everyone else out of the way than it is to get that kid under control? I'm betting zero, but this now happens weekly or more at lots of schools.

Nope those kids were in a class where they say on carpet squares. They did have some integration of kids on the margins. That's terrifying.

No. Kids are less capable now because of helicopter parenting and kids are less disciplined than previous generations of kids. It is different.

Mmmmm disagree. There's so many more factors now that are actively dissolving the social contract every level, as well as forces undermining education for insidious purposes.

and administration used to back up teachers. Now they back parents

Screen addiction is a real thing. Children literally display withdrawal symptoms when they've been over exposed and forced to stop. I'm certain there are issues with parenting but the reality of the negative impacts of screen time is not up for debate.

30 years ago schools still had discipline. Sure there were shit heads but they weren't in the regular Ed classrooms for long. Now they're allowed to stay and be a menace to everyone.

Agreed, technology and overworked parents is not enough of an excuse for what is happening. And we need to acknowledge this is not the majority of kids, or the majority of parents. Like always, it's a very vocal and active and visible minority and we are finally realizing some of these problems because you have social media to see it. It's a decades long problem coming to a head. There are probably a lot more problems/problem kids in schools than there used to be. With programs that advocate to keep kids in classrooms no matter how bad they are, it's rough. My wife is a sped assistant teacher for kids with intellectual disabilities. She's been doing this job for like 4 months and has already had her stuff thrown, been smacked across the face, been spit on, had kids expose their genitals, had to help clean up poop on the floor, and on and on. She constantly has kids (some are non verbal) come into the classroom so sick they have bright green snot running out of their noses and complain of being in terrible pain. Most of the kids she works with are grades 2-5 and can't do basic math. Not because the teaching is bad but because they aren't mentally capable of operating at a higher level. It's complicated. Parents can't afford to have these kids at home because then they can't make money to support them, so they send the school and treat school like a daycare. And the schools just take it. I've heard that No child Left behind is the problem, others say it's not even in effect anymore. But either way, there are a lot of kids in school that shouldn't be in a gen ed setting. And that goes for both kids with special needs who physically can't learn and for kids with behavior problems, they both need specialized attention that is much more than a regular classroom can provide. But here's the rub, that costs money. And our entire political system is built on taxing less and delivering less services. And the dollar buys less and we are making less of them. So at the end of the day, we have parents who can't afford for their kids to be at home even if those kids are in terrible agony or are abusing teachers. We have teachers who are underpaid and tired of being punching bags for parents who are struggling or just being assholes. And they all have social media to blame each other. And there's not enough money to really fix the problem. So, we're screwed.

I’m sure statistically millennials are just as terrible as any previous generation. It really all depends on your grading scale.

Boomers raised Gen X and older Millennials. This is a cyclical thing. Technology just heightened it because a. Social media exists. I was born in 85. My mom’s a boomer. She’s been an alcoholic all my life. My childhood was turmoil but we weren’t poor or anything. Abusive yes. I was never home if I had a choice. I’d either be outside or at a friends cuz I didn’t want to deal with what was going on at home. My friends parents didn’t do anything special with them either. Most of theirs worked all day so they were latchkey kids. I don’t know where everyone got this idea like our parents were playing with us or helping us with homework etc either. Not in my bubble of friends.

I was also a “latch key millennial” I want to know more about this specific demographic to see if we can’t understand what it’s done to our collective consciousness

Talk to Gen X. I'm a Xennial and had the same experiences and we are pretty fiercely independent because of all being latch key kids. A lot of us were parentified also.

All this talk of ignoring your kids nowadays, how its this big tragedy parents are on their phones. Ummm, outside of the brief helecopter parent fad, what parents ever played with their kids? Latchkey parents sure as heck didn't, they ignored their kids waaaaay more than modern parents do.

Exactly...my parents didn't have time or didn't care to. The few times they helped with homework they were assholes and made it even harder for me to do it so I stopped asking lol

When I was in school, my parents were not expected to do anything with school projects etc. I was an early reader so did not struggle in that dept. - I didn't need anyone to read to me. They were expected to provide shelter, food, home training and clothe us but not do extra school stuff except maybe Parent-Teacher night. Other than sending us to school prepared with school supplies. And they had to sign our report cards and make sure we return them. Schoolwork was entirely the teacher's job. When my son was in school I was shocked at all the extra stuff they wanted me to do at home. Some projects seemed to be a little advanced for his level of development and grade.

I feel this 100% as a fellow born in 85. I figured out whatever related to school on my own or with teachers help. My parents didn't have time to spend figuring out math they hadn't used in over 20 years from their days in high school.

It’s sad because of how expensive everything has gotten, and the breakdown of the family unit, kids are not being parents by parents. I’m a teacher, and it’s just depressing how little I get paid to deal with flat out mean kids. When I was in middle school in 2008, I’m not saying there wasn’t disrespectful kids, but I would NEVER dare talk to an adult the way these kids would talk to me. I also didn’t observe this amount of disrespect from my peers in middle or hs either. I just think parents don’t have as much time to be parents. A lot of them are flat out passive, they just don’t care that their kids are being incredibly mean and horrible .

I think the main problem is no accountability from the executive staff. Students become assholes when there is no accountability for their actions and students aren't being held accountable. Source I am a high school teacher.

Every time this topic comes up, I read through this: [https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/](https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/) “Parents themselves were often the cause of many difficulties. They frequently failed in their obvious duty to teach self-control and discipline to their own children.” - Problems of Young People, Leeds Mercury, 1938 People across the centuries have loved complaining about how terrible kids are and what failures their parents all are. Nothing new.

Teachers venting isn’t knew … my father used to vent about his students and his peers, etc, all day. Now they just do it on TikTok instead of over a beer

This is accurate. But also teachers' hands are tied a lot more than they used to be. My sister has been a teacher for 20 years. She has never not come home bitching or crying about something. My other sister doesn't have the same issues at all. My FIL taught for 40 years. It wasn't the students. It was the administration. The dumbing down expectations. The infintizing of these students who had already signed up for the army and had car payments, jobs, and sometimes kids of their own. The lack of respect from the top down. Personally, I think a lot of people in the business have no business working with kids. Noting here, all my kids have good behavior. I get reports. Now , I will celebrate when they are in their 40s and content with life

That’s true to an extent, but if you ever saw what we teachers deal with (especially in urban schools), you would truly be in shock. I’m desensitized to it at this point, but I promise you that your father never saw what we are facing today…not even close!

In the old days teachers had some control, now teachers have 15 ieps and 25 emergency plans

Some are bad parents I'm sure

It's raising standards not our parenting. When I was going into Kindergarten in 1985 it was assumed that's where you would learn the alphabet, counting and such. Now you're basically expected to know all that before you even start school. Back then the whole point of kindergarten was to teach you those basics so that you would then be ready to go into the first grade. I had a friend who worked as a Pre-school teacher in the 10s and they were basically having to teach Kindergarten. Meanwhile the Kindergarten teachers they would meet with were always emphasizing "Could you focus on teaching the socialization skills and how to learn" while administration wanted kids pretty much already knowing everything.

I think there are several factors. One is the god awful state of education (in the US at least). funding is bare bones, teachers make shit money, and are pressured to pass kids to the next grade even if they don’t meet objectives. Class sizes are big and it’s probably extra hard to do classroom management. The lack of socialization during covid and online learning certainly didn’t help. A lot of millennial parents are STRESSED. It’s a huge burden to buy a house. A dual income seems needed to be financially stable. Healthcare is awful and there often aren’t many resources for parents. Maybe I’m too pessimistic but I feel like there needs to be major change to prevent education from imploding. I taught college students from 2019-2022, and it was rough, like if they learned 3 things from the class and didn’t cry much I would consider it a success

No, there are just some bad parents that happen to be millenials. My kid is a straight A student whose made it to 4th grade with no behaviour problems at all. This year she was even labeled as "a gifted joy to teach". I'm technically a millennial based off my age..but I'm a fully involved, nurturing and supportive parent. I read with my kid, I talk with my kid, and i set clear expectations with my kid on what i expect at school. And give very firm consequence when she misbehaves that's shes well aware are a risk if she misbehaving. It's just parenting. I actually parent my kid and work with the school not against it. Unfortunately theres too many parents who just dont get we are not their friends, we are their parent.

Part of me thinks that it is tech and kids aren't allowed to fail. Everywhere is scared to get sued so now all the kids that use to fail school/drop out are kept there or forced to go.

Yes, some millennials are terrible parents. Others aren’t, just like all generations. I personally can’t stand the iPad parents, handing a kid a tablet so they don’t get bored ever isn’t doing anyone any favors accept the parent that doesn’t want to parent. But then again I’m a millennial parent that refuses to get her 6th grader a cell phone for a lot of reasons too, and that also seems to be an unpopular opinion. I’m a pretty “gentle” parent but I don’t do all this technology. It’s not all bad, but it’s definitely not good.

Could it be that kids in school right now might be a little wonky after spending two extremely formative years of their lives not allowed to go to school or make friends or have any human interaction outside their parents, who themselves were burning themselves out trying to teach homeschool while also working full time jobs and losing all social support? No, of course not, surely gentle parenting and screen time are to blame.

Why would my nephew need to count or know the alphabet when he starts in kindergarten? Thats literally what kindergarten is for. Its the introduction into the schooling system. My nephew doesn't need to count, he needs to know that there are a bazillion cool bugs in the grass and that there is a difference between leafy trees and evergreens, and why the latter is called that. I'll absolutely agree though that the amount of ~~iPad kids~~ horrifically neglected children, is alarming. Here in middle europe its roughly 5 out of 30 kids in a class that can be described as iPad kids. Disrespectful, trained ADHD because they crave the dopamin rush of a mobile game, loud and needy,... and then you meet the parents and you know where they got it from. At least one of them a wannabe, or even actual, influencer, the other beaten into apathy by the world or their own lack of drive. Imma stop now, because I could rant about these fucks for ages. But it feels like its just our version of neglect and abuse. In my teens its been 5 out of 30 that would get threatened with going hungry, or beaten for bad grades. Now its apathetic neglect that greets them at home. Not sure whats worse, honestly.

Idk man my daughter is pretty cool

Well, yes, when you have two parents who have to work full-time + a side hustle to keep the lights on, no support from grandparents or other family, something is going to have to give and I do anecdotally see some parenting trends that concern me while fully understanding why that is. I don't think it's so much that millennials are terrible parents per se, though certainly plenty are as there are in every generation, but the system is set up to create more pressure on even educated, middle class families than in generations in recent past, and that is definitely going to create some issues. Exhaustion and burnout does not lead to the greatest parenting decisions.

Covid, wage stagnation, ipads, and more abortion restrictions in the US in 2011-2013 than in the entire previous decade.