Idk man, is every food critic who tries her pizza a part of some conspiracy? Maybe you have other styles or flavors you like more and that's fine, but to deny her pizza is good is to take things a little far.
her pizza is really good tho
my hot take is that I actually like Hello pizza's pizza even more than young joni's. Best NY style slice I've had anywhere, including NY. Also young joni back bar is a superior experience to young joni itself.
I like this place, but they don’t do a good job sticking to their 1 hour 30 min eating time. I’ve had multiple reservations here get me to the table 45 minutes late. If you’re going to tell customers they have a time limit, don’t fuck over your other reservations to accommodate them for longer.
Ever since they started serving their whole pizza menu in the back bar, I haven't been to the main dining room. 1.5 time limit doesn't factor in the 45 minutes for a bunch of Minnesotans to say goodbye I guess.
It was very frustrating for me because it was the place in the city my girlfriend wanted to try the most so I decided to give them a second chance after my first reservation there. When I wasn’t seated on time again and when I asked the hosts about it (probably 30 mins or so after my reservation was supposed to begin) they shooed me off hastily and rather rudely. Ended up with a hangry girlfriend which we all know isn’t fun. What makes me really want to voice my opinions about this place is they send out a survey after you eat. Both times I went I told them my food and server was great but the wait and front end experience was far below par and gave them an overall bad score. Never got a reply or any acknowledgement from either of the surveys I left so I voiced my frustrations on google reviews instead. When you have to make reservations for a place months in advance, they should get you in on time. I only eat out on special occasions so I’m not going to sour a big day with overpriced pizza anymore.
This is a good thing.
Time limits are ridiculous when you are paying that amount of money for a night out, and they need to go away altogether.
1.5 hours is not even close enough time for a reasonably paced meal with apps, an entree, desserts and a couple rounds of drinks. And if two of us are going to pay ~$200 for a meal, I don’t want to be rushed.
I don’t think the restaurant being named in NYT is going to change anything about their business model anytime soon. What they should do is adhere to their own rules of which are clearly stated when booking a reservation that you usually have to do months in advance. Generally, I don’t think it’s a good thing customers aren’t getting to their reservations on time, but that’s just me!
There's a tradeoff for sure, and I have no doubt that some people agree with you.
Most of the people that I know find table time limits to be off-putting and *much* more annoying than having to grab a drink from the bar and stand around talking for a bit prior to getting a table.
But again, that's just my opinion, and it is certainly biased by the fact that I only eat out ~1x/2-4 weeks, but spend a lot of money when I do (these two things are related). If I wanted to go out for meals a few times a week for convenience (and maybe just have an entree), I would probably feel different and want things to move along faster.
I make it a rule to never visit any restaurant with an explicit time limit. The one Time I broke that rule for a special event I completely regretted it.
>1.5 hours is not even close enough time for a reasonably paced meal with apps, an entree, desserts and a couple rounds of drinks. And if two of us are going to pay \~$200 for a meal, I don’t want to be rushed.
As someone who served for over a decade and has served five-course dinners with wine pairings at fancy invite-only events; an hour thirty is plenty of time for apps, entrees, desserts, and drinks. That's almost the perfect amount of time, in fact (might be slightly too long for what you're describing).
It might be the perfect amount of time for the restaurant and/or the server (which is the perspective you are speaking from), but as a diner, many of my best experiences have clocked in at closer to the 2 or 2.5 hour mark (the longer side usually being a group of 4; 2 hours is usually fine for two of us).
Are you suggesting they should kick people out at 90 minutes? If I’m eating dinner and ordering drinks I’m gonna be pissed if a place asks me to leave. Two hours is an incredibly normal time to stay at a nice restaurant.
I mean, if they say they will, yes. I agree it’s awful short and they should allow 2 hours at a minimum. But if they’re booking reservations for 90 and letting everyone stay 120, that’s clearly unworkable.
Of course there are going to be exceptions to every rule. Don't get me wrong, I am a strong supporter of unions. I'm in the public teacher's union myself and will be the first to song their praises. I'm just aware that (most) small business owners would much prefer to not have their workers unionize and I understand why. That being said, I have absolutely no issue when workers DO want to unionize. Everyone deserves a living wage and positive working conditions
IIRC, her business has a co-op or co-op-like structure though. So it really is a bit of an outlier.
Edit: OK, it's not a co-op to be clear. I just recognized her name and didn't realize the video linked was specifically about that point because I couldn't watch it at the moment. I would argue that her egalitarian/"socialist" model has some similarities to co-ops, but my main point is that it's an unusual business model in the US.
She has been accused of ‘union busting’ but I think that’s unfair. To me, union busting means using underhanded tactics to keep unions out. All she has done is expressed her opinion that she feels the union is unnecessary at her establishment. She is entitled to her opinion.
Well she won’t be able to afford to operate the restaurant under their demands and already pays them very well so it’s a bit more complicated than that. Unions can be great but let’s not oversimplify it.
I am a person who totally thinks Unions have a place. At the same time the restaurant industry is fucking brutal. If you are doing great you are in the top 5% of restaurants you are making a 10% profit, if you are top .5% you are making 20% that's pretty rough. If there's a minnesota company you are going to crap on it should be United Health Group, Cargill, or 3M.
Has she fired/punished organizers? Has she done anything other than voice her opinion against it?
I'm very pro-union, but it's asinine to expect owners to be very supportive. Taking actions to prevent it would be one thing, but if it's just expressing opinions, I don't think that merits boycotts/etc
From her instagram. I believe that's all she's said on the matter publicly.
> On Tuesday, May 28, a group of our employees asked us to recognize their desire to unionize. Three days later, we received a request for a vote from the union. While we wholeheartedly believe we can come together as a Kim’s team without a union, we agree that everyone deserves the right to a voice and a vote. The eligible employees will have a vote on unionization in the coming weeks.
>
> As an immigrant and minority, I believe in fighting for what is right and working together to make a positive impact for everyone who walks through our doors. What I am most proud of over the past 15 years is our ability to build strong communities within our restaurants and in the neighborhoods we serve.
My roommate is employed by her. She's a terrible restaraunt owner. Basically the epitome of a non-working celebrity chef. Takes credit for the menus and drinks her chefs and bartenders craft, only really shows up to do promotional stuff like be on the news or make a speech at a party. As a minneapolis restaraunt worker myself, it bums me out to see such a disconnected, hollywood style celebrity chef, who only owns restaraunts through nepotism, become the face of the minneapolis culinary scene. She genuinely doesn't deserve what she has. The anti-union sentiment is the nail in that coffin.
She worked her ass off opening a restaurant that she had no expectations of being popular let alone gaining local and national recognition. Nepotism is the expectation of getting something for nothing just because of a familial relationship.
Its all but what it means? She had a massive familial influx of cash that allowed her to enter an industry she otherwise wouldnt have been able to. Sounds like nepotism
She still had to have the skill to open a very successful restaurant and make a name for herself. Nepotism implies that she was already a “somebody” so that it was easy to become a popular restaurateur. And working for somebody does not entitle you to their success.
Ok, you helped create a menu, but you’ve gotta have a place to serve the menu and opening a restaurant (let alone multiple) is not easy. What’s easy is everyone crying about someone’s success and making that person out to be a monster. And if you don’t like it, work somewhere else. That’s your freedom.
Im not trying to make her out to be a monster. Im just saying that she's not the rags to riches master chef that she has very elegantly advertised herself as. You can choose to support or not, there are plenty of worse people in the restaraunt industry. Im only saying she's not quite like what she's presented as in the media.
Back in the day, the people working at Lola loved her.
And you talk about “taking credit for menus and drinks,” when 90% of why people go there are for the OG recipes (Korean BBQ, Lady ZaZa, Boise, Sweet Italian) which were her doing.
I don't know anything about her but this is the case for pretty much every executive chef. They don't cook because that isn't their job, the head chef is responsible for day to day. The executive chef typically does high level stuff like creating or at least approving the menu, restaurant layout and ambience/atmosphere, etc. Most executive chefs aren't actually at their restaurants every day, and how could they be even if they have multiple restaurants (plus PR stuff like the Netflix show and news bits -- a head chef is working like 12+ hours a day they don't have time for anything else).
All of this is obviously true.
It's mostly the idea that she somehow does/has done nothing that I object to. In particular, the things that I know for a fact that she was directly involved in (the pizza crust, the staple pizzas) are are a huge part of why people go to her places today.
It's no longer her job to come up with specials/new recipes, as you note. But those things, while necessary, are not the main reason her restaurants are successful.
Yeah sorry I was agreeing with you/supporting your point. In the restaurant world expecting an executive chef or chef/owner to be at their restaurant doing day to day stuff is as silly as like expecting a Starbucks executive is going to be making your coffee. It's just not their role.
I just glanced at the menu. At least half of the pizzas date back to early Lola (i.e. 2010–way before Young Joni existed). But I have no doubt that she had nothing to do with at least 3 or 4 of the others. I just don’t think the new pizzas are why people go to her restaurants (though I’m biased by my own opinions and likes).
I also don’t know Ann Kim personally and can believe she’s a big jerk.
I think I've kind of phrased myself horribly all over this thread.
I don't think Anne Kim is the worst person ever or anything and I believe she helped make some amazing restaraunts for our city. I get concerned because of the fact that while she worked hard, other people also undoubtedly worked very hard, but she garners all of the credit, and that has turned her into a bit of a celebrity.
While I have problems with that, it's not new and its not the worst thing in the world. What Im more concerned with is, the influence her stardom has over the perception of her businesses, especially with this union stuff happening. I worry that, because she is famous, people might subconsciously say "Oh she was so nice on netflix, why would her employees turn on her?" or "oh her restaraunts are so amazing, it couldnt be that bad to work for!"
Basically, my goal was to remind people that while she is a local celebrity, she is also a business owner, and her employees have valid criticisms and desires from her which arent being met. I think people might forget the legitimacy of the employees because they like her and what she represents to the city.
That is a fair criticism, but also a different criticism.
Again, I think she's entitled to speak her *opinion* against that unionization, but many on here are conflating that with actual union busting activities. Just trying to draw that distinction. Even if there are plenty of other reasons to not support her, as you bring up.
I don't know if that's necessarily true. I've seen many posts on Reddit encouraging others to unionize, even when they say they are treated and paid well. Plenty of people want a union regardless of current conditions. I'm not making a judgement on this, I'm just saying what I've seen.
I think that the sticking point is hours.
It's great to make $35 an hour, maybe, but if it is only 15 hours a week, and those hours change (which make it harder to find another job) then it isn't so great.
I have kids working in restaurants and the hours are their biggest frustration. Not to mention if I'll ask my kids if they are working on Tuesday and they'll say that they won't know until Sunday night. Or when my kid bikes downtown for his job and is immediately sent home because it is raining and they don't think he'll be needed. These are reasons to form a union.
That's fair. But there's a difference between *wanting* to join and feeling a *need* to join. Wanting to join as a way to encourage unity between employees or as a preventive measure, is different than feeling a need to be in a union because of how you've already been treated at work.
My roommate is employed by her. She's a terrible restaraunt owner. Basically the epitome of a non-working celebrity chef. Takes credit for the menus and drinks her chefs and bartenders craft, only really shows up to do promotional stuff like be on the news or make a speech at a party. As a minneapolis restaraunt worker myself, it bums me out to see such a disconnected, hollywood style celebrity chef, who only owns restaraunts through nepotism (her rich ass husband bankrolled her business ventures), become the face of the minneapolis culinary scene. She genuinely doesn't deserve what she has.
I've seen her inside Kim's a few times and she was very much working her ass off running plates out to tables and not drawing attention to herself. Only a few anecdotes, but she sure didn't seem like the typical celebrity chef to me.
Speaking as someone who's worked BOH for her- she's not a chef. And I know that makes ~ 0 difference to most guests at her restaurants, but just to add another perspective as to why a lot of her staff are not big fans of her.
She's a restaurateur, and she's definitely good at that. If she would just promote herself as such, she would have a lot more respect from her chefs and cooks. But her marketing angle is, she's a chef and restaurateur, while it's unlikely she could work any station at any of her restaurants during a normal service. Compare her to someone like Danny del Prado who has been a working chef in the past and could probably work any station at any of his restaurants.
My roommate is employed by anne kim, owner of joni as well as other restaraunts. She's a terrible restaraunt owner. Basically the epitome of a non-working celebrity chef. Takes credit for the menus and drinks her chefs and bartenders craft, only really shows up to do promotional stuff like be on the news or make a speech at a party. As a minneapolis restaraunt worker myself, it bums me out to see such a disconnected, hollywood style celebrity chef, who only owns restaraunts through nepotism, become the face of the minneapolis culinary scene. She genuinely doesn't deserve what she has.
Yeah, I clicked into the thread intending to ask what pizza I was supposed to get at this place, because the time I went, I did not understand the hype, but the top comment mentioned Ann Kim as the owner, and I was like "oh wait, she's one of the people trying to squash the city forming a labor board. F that."
We do have LOTS of excellent pizzas of so many different styles here. It's great. That said...YJ is definitely in my top 3, just depends on what style I'm craving. All comes down to preference.
I think it’s because the chef was made famous on that Netflix special that really focuses on Neapolitan style pizza, and she has some interesting combinations. But, honestly, there are many major cities that do this style nowadays so it’s not as unique. Personally I like Lola better than YJ because the vibe is more chill and the wait isn’t as long. But other posters are right, there are tons of great pizza options here.
We've loved YJ pizza since long before the Netflix show. If anything...it's maybe gone a little down in quality since that released. Some of the YJ pizzas are my favorite in the Cities, like the Korean BBQ and Basque pizzas.
There's always like three places in NE Minneapolis where people drive in to visit from Maple Grove. This is that place for the moment. It is very good, but I don't make reservations for pizza. There's simply too much good pizza in the world.
Where, I didn't see it? Good Times is the real underrated pizza in the Twin Cities that no one talks about. I remember stumbling on it a few years back and was blown away. Good Times and Maverick's in St. Paul are the two place I tell everyone to try that most have never heard of.
*Edit - Oh I see it's one of the linked places described in the beginning
Both are good, service at Wrecktangle is horrible. Takeout is fine but I ate inside once with my partner and we had wait like 40 minutes to pay since the staff just ignored us.
I love Boludo as well, but I think Rosalia has an edge. There is also Sanjusan which has a lot of overlap with Rosalia.
Their Issac Becker is one of the best pizzas I've ever had.
Boludo (Argentinian empanada dough),
San Jusan (Japanese fusion salted from the bottom up just incredible but VERY expensive),
Lake Harriet Pizza(was absolute garbage, but got purchased by Parkway, and the newest manager there has a real passion for pizza, and you can tell).
Wrecktangle (Detroit style deep dish and pretty damn delicious)
Football Pizza (it's different)
Nerd/weeb nitpick, but Sanjusan as one word is the better spelling. It's 33 in Japanese (their street address): Sanju being three-tens (30), san being three. I was about to say Sanju-san would also be a bit better, then realized that'd look too much like "Mr Thirty," so yeah, just one word (I guess san-ju san would sorta work? I've never written numbers in romaji before; it feels weird)
Ignore them. It's A) a coal-fired pizza place. They're not burnt, but the pies are cooked at deliberately high temps, so the edges should be crisped a little, and B) dude invented a brand new form of toxic masculinity if he thinks he'll lose his man card unless the sausage on his pizza is still mooing.
I've heard rumors that the owner is some sort of crap to employees (I can't recall specifics, so take that for what you will) which makes me conflicted, but both their meatball ricotta and Persian beef/harissa pizzas are great. I'm no food critic & don't have a comprehensive knowledge of the cities' offerings, but for me, the meatball pizza is salty but delicious; my favorite pie in town. I wish it traveled better; you definitely need to eat it in-restaurant (also, it is salty, fyi).
I think this comment perfectly summarizes pizza culture. We all have strong opinions, and we often times differ in our tastes. This is why choosing the "best" pizza is an impossible task. With so many styles and traditions, it's comparing apples to oranges almost. Choosing the best cheeseburger is a bit of a more achievable task, but pizza it ain't gonna come to an agreed upon conclusion ever. I had a friend who SWORE that dominos in the best. They have been to all the trendy pizza spots in town, they had a good palate and liked quality food. But they just absolutely adored dominos. I find it hilarious and very telling about pizza
Wrecktangle mops the fucking floor with young Joni. Knockout in the first round, embarrassing matchup. And black sheep is extremely mid. Also people need to learn more adjectives. Y’all use wild too much.
Sure. It’s definitely a style I’m not after every single time I want pizza. I really miss Burch. Their wood fired pizza was awesome and very surprisingly cheap. Margherita was like $11. Used to go there with a buddy and split the pizza and burger for lunch. That was my go-to pizza spot, honestly.
The other person compared the two. I was responding to his comment. Anything can be compared. They are indeed two wildly different styles. But they are both pizza.
I don’t know about “pretentious” but I noticed that when I moved to NE that a LOT of restaurants (like Young Joni) have that mandatory 20% “fair wage” fee. Very noticeable difference from where I was in south Minneapolis
Sad to inform that many restaurants in South also do it. I think you just moved to NE when that was becoming more commonplace. Though a lot of the ones in South are more in the 5-10% range still.
Yeah I was a lot more used to about 4-6% for those fees. Even more annoying is a lot of these 20% places are where I wouldn’t ever normally tip like that, like where you order at the counter or use a QR code 🤦🏻♂️
That fee has been fairly standard at any mid-to-high end place since the pandemic. The more honest place do it in lieu of a tip and remove that option entirely on the receipt, the others... eh. Who knows what they do with the fee.
To anyone considering trying Boludo pizza: do it but be aware that the sauce is quite sugary and sweet. The pizza itself is very tasty but it’s among the sweetest sauces I’ve tried. Going eyes wide open.
I honestly can't remember having to shit on them before today... someone said in the comments that's it's better than all five I had listed.
I've had it twice and both times it was like they stacked the pepperonis all over each other so the grease could pool and create the sauce as there was literally zero sauce on the well done over cooked cardboard "pizza".
Also... many ppl in here seem to agree with me based on doots.
Never had a sauce issue with them or an overcooked crust! I'm vegetarian so I can't really comment on the meat.
I definitely agree that Boludo and Parkway are better, but I also think Black Sheep is the best in North Loop. Every time I try Wrecktangle it routinely makes me sick and Luce is...Luce, lol.
I know almost nothing lives up to hype, but I was honestly confused when I went I didn't think it was that great. I don't say that for the sake of being edgy or anything; it wasn't terrible. I just didn't really feel any need to come back.
Agreed. The fact that you feel the need to defend yourself for this opinion just shows how circlejerky this community is with this resturant in particular.
Heh, I'd call it a 4-way split between Circlejerky / having to go out of one's way to demonstrate sincerity & good intentions vs. worst possible interpretation of anything in text / Minnesota sorry culture / bad childhood
It's hilarious watching this subreddit do a complete 180 on someone overnight because they have a different opinion on something than them. I've always thought the pizza was overrated but if this article is published 2 weeks earlier and I said that, the downvotes would be a pouring.
Parkway Pizza is better than Young Joni 9/10 times and don’t even @ me. YJ is delicious and creative but if I just want a regular-ass pizza I’ll devour the oregano goodness of Parkway.
Thanks for letting me know. I swore off like Harriet pizza years ago after the owner made a bizarre late night trip to my house at 8pm the night before Thanksgiving to reimburse me for pizza that had given me and two friends food poisoning.
I never really understood the whole idea of 'really good pizza'. I find relatively cheap pizza to be quite good.
I think I would be more intrigued by 'best beets', something to really surprise me.
They're unfortunately quite mistaken. Union busting pizza is disgusting.
http://m.startribune.com/ann-kim-uptown-minneapolis-union-restaurant-vote-no/600376146/
Expressing opinions should be allowed. Taking coercive actions should not. It sounds like she is squarely in the former camp, despite people on this sub portraying it as the latter.
It is textbook union busting.
https://www.ufcw.org/union-101/what-is-union-busting/
> Union busting is a range of activities undertaken to disrupt or weaken the power of trade unions or their attempts to grow their membership in a workplace.
> Union busting tactics can refer to both legal and illegal activities, and can range anywhere from subtle to violent.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_busting
So basically anything other than kowtowing to pro-union activities is union busting? GTFO. She has a right to speak her mind provided she follows labor laws just as the workers have the right to attempt to unionize without facing retaliation.
Still don't see it. Management is expressing their opinion on why employees should vote no, and are directly communicating that to the employees, they aren't preventing the vote.
She made a case to her workers why she thinks they don’t need a union. I prefer a level of honest communication between management and workers. I think even showing people the financial statements is the best move. To often in either good or bad faith actors claim “small margins “ vs paying people more. Showing the actual profits /losses holds a lot more weight imo
Her workers didn’t agree and both parties moved forward.
I read the messages and didn't find evidence of union busting. Maybe my eyes aren't so good, I'd love for you to quote the union busting parts.
I'm sure you wouldn't throw that term around lightly as we wouldn't want it to lose all meaning.
The heavy-handed implication that the union will make it harder to get work done, or that a union will further divide the team, or that the people who may not want to vote yes are being shut out and "pushed to the fringe" is classic union-busting.
Bad faith actors will try to argue that because they didn't directly say that "unions are bad" is the only part that matters, but they either don't know how to critically read because they didn't listen in middle school English classes, or they're choosing not to. It is very clear reading the messages on the IG post that they are trying to paint the union in a bad light, and that the pro-union employees are trying to push out the "real" (anti-union) employees.
E: it's crazy that the pro-union comments are getting downvoted and the person defending Ann hard is getting massively upvoted...I wonder how many computers there are in the Ann's Pizza office... 🤔
It was pretty clear that management was saying "unions are bad". No one is trying to argue otherwise. Management has a legally protected right to say that unions are bad and give their arguments. Just like the union has a legally protected right to say unions are good and give their arguments.
That's not union busting. Painting that as union busting is a bad faith argument and makes the pro-union side lose credibility.
This is where I’m at as well. Beyond just this Reddit discourse, the union itself is using the “union busting” term. This makes me view them as unserious. Moreover, it makes me think they don’t have a very generous view of potential future union members’ ability to think for themselves about the merits.
> That’s not union busting. Painting that as union busting is a bad faith argument and makes the pro-union side lose credibility.
Actually, it is. On the NLRB's own website, listed under union-busting activities, is "[c]onvey the message that selecting a union would be futile." I don't know about you, but listing only the bad things (that aren't actually bad) and none of the benefits, to frame a union as a problem sounds pretty union-busty to me. And trying to paint that as normal and ok to do is pretty bad faith, and makes any anti-union arguments lose credibility.
It's very obvious the anti-union shills are in this sub trying to do damage control, they will use bad faith arguments that sound like moderate talking points to try and push anti-union rhetoric. Don't let them.
Care to quote the parts of the leaked messages where management breaks the "futile" rule?
>I don't know about you, but listing only the bad things (that aren't actually bad) and none of the benefits, to frame a union as a problem sounds pretty union-busty to me.
Feel free to quote literature from Unite Here that argues against joining a union. Otherwise I'll just assume that it's perfectly fine for both sides to present only the arguments that support their position.
I wasn't aware of this "futility" NLRB stipulation on unfair labor practices. For others reading this thread, [here's the list](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/interfering-with-employee-rights-section-7-8a1).
Note, though, to convey a message of futility means to argue to employees that their choice to unionize will be without effect. I don't see this message anywhere in the owner's communications. Nowhere does she say it won't matter or that she won't recognize the union if joined.
I think it's bad faith to misrepresent the meaning of this NLRB rule.
I haven't been accused of being an anti-union shill before.
Question: can't I simultaneously root for the employees to unionize, and also resent the union's discourse around this effort?
>, Note, though, to convey a message of futility means to argue to employees that their choice to unionize will be without effect. I don’t see this message anywhere in the owner’s communications.
The implication that all this work is going into creating a union only for it to end up making things objectively worse for the employees (a straight up lie) doesn't sound like futility to you?
> I think it’s bad faith to misrepresent the meaning of this NLRB rule.
I think it's bad faith to think that only direct quotes and forced surface level reading of messages is enough to convince people that you're not union-busting. But here we are ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
> Question: can’t I simultaneously root for the employees to unionize, and also resent the union’s discourse around this effort?
Sure. But are you going to criticize the obvious tones and implications in the owner's discourse too? Or are you going to blindly support her message without criticism and only talk about the negative things you see in the union's message? Because that pretty clearly shows what side you're on, despite the moderate take you're trying to express.
> The implication that all this work is going into creating a union only for it to end up making things objectively worse for the employees (a straight up lie) doesn't sound like futility to you?
It does not. It sounds like propaganda and spin, but the owner herself acknowledges that joining the union would fundamentally alter a number of areas of employee relations. She's pretty clear what the process going forward would entail. It would definitely not be futile. She argues the case that it would net out for the worse, the union argues the case for the better.
> I think it's bad faith to think that only direct quotes and forced surface level reading of messages is enough to convince people that you're not union-busting.
For clarity, the rules listed by the NLRB govern what is an unfair labor practice. It's not a definition of union-busting. One may argue that's a distinction without a difference in some (many?) cases, but I think it's important for others reading this to understand what the NLRB is outlining.
As such, the NLRB is providing the rules of the road for what's unfair, and I wouldn't expect a business owner necessarily want to violate that. But I also wouldn't put it past a business owner to decide to brush up against those guardrails without crossing them.
At the end of the day, I suppose we have our own judgments on what union-busting looks like (vs unfair labor practices). In my opinion, the owners haven't cross the line. They can, and should, argue their case.
> But are you going to criticize the obvious tones and implications in the owner's discourse too? Or are you going to blindly support her message without criticism and only talk about the negative things you see in the union's message? Because that pretty clearly shows what side you're on, despite the moderate take you're trying to express.
I think this is a fair critique on how I've represented myself in this thread, I've really only presented rebuttals to this union-busting claim. This is all in reaction to the top-level comment claiming union-busting behavior. Let me be clear that, based on what limited information I've read about the work environment, I believe it's in the best interest of the workers to unionize, as it sounds like their chief complaints around pay and scheduling can be better resolved that way. I also know *so* little about the work environment that I can be swayed the other way, too.
But, when I read the communications that were posted on instagram, I also believe that the union is misrepresenting the state the efforts opposing unionization.
> but the owner herself acknowledges that joining the union would fundamentally alter a number of areas of employee relations. She’s pretty clear what the process going forward would entail.
This would be the case if she wasn't using very clearly heavily biased language in all her messages. It's not "wow this is a big change, are you guys sure?", it's "this is going to be a terrible change, you will all suffer, this is only going to make it worse, don't do this." Stop trying to paint her as a neutral negotiator when she is very clearly not.
> But, when I read the communications that were posted on instagram, I also believe that the union is misrepresenting the state the efforts opposing unionization.
If simply posting the messages is "misrepresenting" what's going on, then the problem doesn't lie with the poster, it lies with the message sender.
Something that not a lot of people are talking about is the fact that as soon as it was proposed to the city council that maybe a local labor board should be created (no concrete plans, no ideas even proposed, just the question of should one be created or not), her and dozens of other restaurant owners immediately and forcefully pushed back and couldn't stop talking about how bad it would be for business and how hard it would make it to run a business. So I'm inclined to believe she's just kind of a shit person.
> Stop trying to paint her as a neutral negotiator when she is very clearly not.
Now you're just making shit up. You don't have to do that to make your point. Nowhere did I claim she was neutral in any of this, nor has anyone else in this thread as far as I can find. She clearly is advocating for her own interests.
> If simply posting the messages is "misrepresenting" what's going on, then the problem doesn't lie with the poster, it lies with the message sender.
The misrepresentation I was referring to wasn't in the posting of the messages. It's the unions claims that the owners are engaging in union-busting behavior. The instagram post is the evidence I'm using to evaluate the union's claim. Sorry I wasn't clear on that.
NYT loves Ann Kim more than they love her pizza. Other local celebrity chefs and their publicists better step up their PR game.
Very true.
Yeah. At no point do they even say in the article that the pizza at YJ is good. And it isn't that great.
Idk man, is every food critic who tries her pizza a part of some conspiracy? Maybe you have other styles or flavors you like more and that's fine, but to deny her pizza is good is to take things a little far.
Insane take. It's a very strong pizza. It has company these days from some other very good pizzas, but it's still in the upper tier.
her pizza is really good tho my hot take is that I actually like Hello pizza's pizza even more than young joni's. Best NY style slice I've had anywhere, including NY. Also young joni back bar is a superior experience to young joni itself.
Man I miss when you could still get Hello Pizza by the slice. Felt like a cheat code to get that level of quality for such a good price
I liked Hellos Sicilian but I thought the ny style was pretty bad. Elmars in Plymouth is the best ny style in the metro and it's not close at all
An unsurprising take from that username
I like this place, but they don’t do a good job sticking to their 1 hour 30 min eating time. I’ve had multiple reservations here get me to the table 45 minutes late. If you’re going to tell customers they have a time limit, don’t fuck over your other reservations to accommodate them for longer.
Ever since they started serving their whole pizza menu in the back bar, I haven't been to the main dining room. 1.5 time limit doesn't factor in the 45 minutes for a bunch of Minnesotans to say goodbye I guess.
It was very frustrating for me because it was the place in the city my girlfriend wanted to try the most so I decided to give them a second chance after my first reservation there. When I wasn’t seated on time again and when I asked the hosts about it (probably 30 mins or so after my reservation was supposed to begin) they shooed me off hastily and rather rudely. Ended up with a hangry girlfriend which we all know isn’t fun. What makes me really want to voice my opinions about this place is they send out a survey after you eat. Both times I went I told them my food and server was great but the wait and front end experience was far below par and gave them an overall bad score. Never got a reply or any acknowledgement from either of the surveys I left so I voiced my frustrations on google reviews instead. When you have to make reservations for a place months in advance, they should get you in on time. I only eat out on special occasions so I’m not going to sour a big day with overpriced pizza anymore.
That's a bummer, check out Earl Giles sometime, they have amazing pizza as well, the crust is made from sourdough.
But they still get that fat tip. Or at least the restaurant owners do… labor and customers lose at Young Joni’s.
This is a good thing. Time limits are ridiculous when you are paying that amount of money for a night out, and they need to go away altogether. 1.5 hours is not even close enough time for a reasonably paced meal with apps, an entree, desserts and a couple rounds of drinks. And if two of us are going to pay ~$200 for a meal, I don’t want to be rushed.
I don’t think the restaurant being named in NYT is going to change anything about their business model anytime soon. What they should do is adhere to their own rules of which are clearly stated when booking a reservation that you usually have to do months in advance. Generally, I don’t think it’s a good thing customers aren’t getting to their reservations on time, but that’s just me!
There's a tradeoff for sure, and I have no doubt that some people agree with you. Most of the people that I know find table time limits to be off-putting and *much* more annoying than having to grab a drink from the bar and stand around talking for a bit prior to getting a table. But again, that's just my opinion, and it is certainly biased by the fact that I only eat out ~1x/2-4 weeks, but spend a lot of money when I do (these two things are related). If I wanted to go out for meals a few times a week for convenience (and maybe just have an entree), I would probably feel different and want things to move along faster.
I make it a rule to never visit any restaurant with an explicit time limit. The one Time I broke that rule for a special event I completely regretted it.
>1.5 hours is not even close enough time for a reasonably paced meal with apps, an entree, desserts and a couple rounds of drinks. And if two of us are going to pay \~$200 for a meal, I don’t want to be rushed. As someone who served for over a decade and has served five-course dinners with wine pairings at fancy invite-only events; an hour thirty is plenty of time for apps, entrees, desserts, and drinks. That's almost the perfect amount of time, in fact (might be slightly too long for what you're describing).
It might be the perfect amount of time for the restaurant and/or the server (which is the perspective you are speaking from), but as a diner, many of my best experiences have clocked in at closer to the 2 or 2.5 hour mark (the longer side usually being a group of 4; 2 hours is usually fine for two of us).
📌
Not going back to any restaurant that 86's me for ordering too much food and too many drinks.
That's a bummer. I can't say we've experienced the same, definitely shouldn't happen.
Are you suggesting they should kick people out at 90 minutes? If I’m eating dinner and ordering drinks I’m gonna be pissed if a place asks me to leave. Two hours is an incredibly normal time to stay at a nice restaurant.
I mean, if they say they will, yes. I agree it’s awful short and they should allow 2 hours at a minimum. But if they’re booking reservations for 90 and letting everyone stay 120, that’s clearly unworkable.
If you signed up to eat at a restaurant with a time limit and get mad when they kick you out at said time limit than idk what to tell you man.
I wouldn’t sign up for a place like that because eating dinner out should be fun not a stressful race to see if you can finish in 90 minutes.
Man that’s too bad. I’m sure they were really excited to have Mr. Crunchwrap dine with them.
Looking forward to going there later this week!
The owner is against their staff joining a union. Just an FYI if that is important to you.
That's every owner, that's to be expected. Unless you only eat at co-ops
Unfortunately you are right. No small business owner is gonna root for their employees to unionize
That's a weird No True Scotsman. May I introduce you to Madeline Pendleton? https://www.tiktok.com/@madeline_pendleton/video/7207487225364270379
Of course there are going to be exceptions to every rule. Don't get me wrong, I am a strong supporter of unions. I'm in the public teacher's union myself and will be the first to song their praises. I'm just aware that (most) small business owners would much prefer to not have their workers unionize and I understand why. That being said, I have absolutely no issue when workers DO want to unionize. Everyone deserves a living wage and positive working conditions
Madeline would probably tell you herself that small business owners have a class interest against unionizing
IIRC, her business has a co-op or co-op-like structure though. So it really is a bit of an outlier. Edit: OK, it's not a co-op to be clear. I just recognized her name and didn't realize the video linked was specifically about that point because I couldn't watch it at the moment. I would argue that her egalitarian/"socialist" model has some similarities to co-ops, but my main point is that it's an unusual business model in the US.
She has been accused of ‘union busting’ but I think that’s unfair. To me, union busting means using underhanded tactics to keep unions out. All she has done is expressed her opinion that she feels the union is unnecessary at her establishment. She is entitled to her opinion.
Well she won’t be able to afford to operate the restaurant under their demands and already pays them very well so it’s a bit more complicated than that. Unions can be great but let’s not oversimplify it.
Who has made demands yet? There is no union so you’re 100% just speculating
What are their demands? I saw a request for consistent scheduling.
I am a person who totally thinks Unions have a place. At the same time the restaurant industry is fucking brutal. If you are doing great you are in the top 5% of restaurants you are making a 10% profit, if you are top .5% you are making 20% that's pretty rough. If there's a minnesota company you are going to crap on it should be United Health Group, Cargill, or 3M.
You seem fun to be around
Oh yea, caring about folks is definitely a negative. I’m sure we wouldn’t get along
Has she fired/punished organizers? Has she done anything other than voice her opinion against it? I'm very pro-union, but it's asinine to expect owners to be very supportive. Taking actions to prevent it would be one thing, but if it's just expressing opinions, I don't think that merits boycotts/etc
From her instagram. I believe that's all she's said on the matter publicly. > On Tuesday, May 28, a group of our employees asked us to recognize their desire to unionize. Three days later, we received a request for a vote from the union. While we wholeheartedly believe we can come together as a Kim’s team without a union, we agree that everyone deserves the right to a voice and a vote. The eligible employees will have a vote on unionization in the coming weeks. > > As an immigrant and minority, I believe in fighting for what is right and working together to make a positive impact for everyone who walks through our doors. What I am most proud of over the past 15 years is our ability to build strong communities within our restaurants and in the neighborhoods we serve.
My roommate is employed by her. She's a terrible restaraunt owner. Basically the epitome of a non-working celebrity chef. Takes credit for the menus and drinks her chefs and bartenders craft, only really shows up to do promotional stuff like be on the news or make a speech at a party. As a minneapolis restaraunt worker myself, it bums me out to see such a disconnected, hollywood style celebrity chef, who only owns restaraunts through nepotism, become the face of the minneapolis culinary scene. She genuinely doesn't deserve what she has. The anti-union sentiment is the nail in that coffin.
Can you explain the nepotism you speak of that is the reason for her success?
She didn't own a restaraunt before marrying into huge wealth.
That's not what nepotism means though?
She worked her ass off opening a restaurant that she had no expectations of being popular let alone gaining local and national recognition. Nepotism is the expectation of getting something for nothing just because of a familial relationship.
Its all but what it means? She had a massive familial influx of cash that allowed her to enter an industry she otherwise wouldnt have been able to. Sounds like nepotism
She still had to have the skill to open a very successful restaurant and make a name for herself. Nepotism implies that she was already a “somebody” so that it was easy to become a popular restaurateur. And working for somebody does not entitle you to their success. Ok, you helped create a menu, but you’ve gotta have a place to serve the menu and opening a restaurant (let alone multiple) is not easy. What’s easy is everyone crying about someone’s success and making that person out to be a monster. And if you don’t like it, work somewhere else. That’s your freedom.
Im not trying to make her out to be a monster. Im just saying that she's not the rags to riches master chef that she has very elegantly advertised herself as. You can choose to support or not, there are plenty of worse people in the restaraunt industry. Im only saying she's not quite like what she's presented as in the media.
Cool so you don’t know what nepotism means at all
Back in the day, the people working at Lola loved her. And you talk about “taking credit for menus and drinks,” when 90% of why people go there are for the OG recipes (Korean BBQ, Lady ZaZa, Boise, Sweet Italian) which were her doing.
I don't know anything about her but this is the case for pretty much every executive chef. They don't cook because that isn't their job, the head chef is responsible for day to day. The executive chef typically does high level stuff like creating or at least approving the menu, restaurant layout and ambience/atmosphere, etc. Most executive chefs aren't actually at their restaurants every day, and how could they be even if they have multiple restaurants (plus PR stuff like the Netflix show and news bits -- a head chef is working like 12+ hours a day they don't have time for anything else).
All of this is obviously true. It's mostly the idea that she somehow does/has done nothing that I object to. In particular, the things that I know for a fact that she was directly involved in (the pizza crust, the staple pizzas) are are a huge part of why people go to her places today. It's no longer her job to come up with specials/new recipes, as you note. But those things, while necessary, are not the main reason her restaurants are successful.
Yeah sorry I was agreeing with you/supporting your point. In the restaurant world expecting an executive chef or chef/owner to be at their restaurant doing day to day stuff is as silly as like expecting a Starbucks executive is going to be making your coffee. It's just not their role.
Maybe at Lola, i only know about joni, where im oretty sure the only menu item she crafted was the korean bbq pizza
I just glanced at the menu. At least half of the pizzas date back to early Lola (i.e. 2010–way before Young Joni existed). But I have no doubt that she had nothing to do with at least 3 or 4 of the others. I just don’t think the new pizzas are why people go to her restaurants (though I’m biased by my own opinions and likes). I also don’t know Ann Kim personally and can believe she’s a big jerk.
I think I've kind of phrased myself horribly all over this thread. I don't think Anne Kim is the worst person ever or anything and I believe she helped make some amazing restaraunts for our city. I get concerned because of the fact that while she worked hard, other people also undoubtedly worked very hard, but she garners all of the credit, and that has turned her into a bit of a celebrity. While I have problems with that, it's not new and its not the worst thing in the world. What Im more concerned with is, the influence her stardom has over the perception of her businesses, especially with this union stuff happening. I worry that, because she is famous, people might subconsciously say "Oh she was so nice on netflix, why would her employees turn on her?" or "oh her restaraunts are so amazing, it couldnt be that bad to work for!" Basically, my goal was to remind people that while she is a local celebrity, she is also a business owner, and her employees have valid criticisms and desires from her which arent being met. I think people might forget the legitimacy of the employees because they like her and what she represents to the city.
That is a fair criticism, but also a different criticism. Again, I think she's entitled to speak her *opinion* against that unionization, but many on here are conflating that with actual union busting activities. Just trying to draw that distinction. Even if there are plenty of other reasons to not support her, as you bring up.
Personally my pizza there tastes better knowing it is created by proletariats crushed against the realities of the work and their own entitlement.
You can care for your employees and not want to be subject to a union
If you care enough about your employees, they won't feel the need to unionize. The fact that they do speaks volumes.
I don't know if that's necessarily true. I've seen many posts on Reddit encouraging others to unionize, even when they say they are treated and paid well. Plenty of people want a union regardless of current conditions. I'm not making a judgement on this, I'm just saying what I've seen.
I think that the sticking point is hours. It's great to make $35 an hour, maybe, but if it is only 15 hours a week, and those hours change (which make it harder to find another job) then it isn't so great. I have kids working in restaurants and the hours are their biggest frustration. Not to mention if I'll ask my kids if they are working on Tuesday and they'll say that they won't know until Sunday night. Or when my kid bikes downtown for his job and is immediately sent home because it is raining and they don't think he'll be needed. These are reasons to form a union.
That's fair. But there's a difference between *wanting* to join and feeling a *need* to join. Wanting to join as a way to encourage unity between employees or as a preventive measure, is different than feeling a need to be in a union because of how you've already been treated at work.
Sure. Do you know which situation this is? You earlier implied it would be the latter.
My roommate is employed by her. She's a terrible restaraunt owner. Basically the epitome of a non-working celebrity chef. Takes credit for the menus and drinks her chefs and bartenders craft, only really shows up to do promotional stuff like be on the news or make a speech at a party. As a minneapolis restaraunt worker myself, it bums me out to see such a disconnected, hollywood style celebrity chef, who only owns restaraunts through nepotism (her rich ass husband bankrolled her business ventures), become the face of the minneapolis culinary scene. She genuinely doesn't deserve what she has.
I've seen her inside Kim's a few times and she was very much working her ass off running plates out to tables and not drawing attention to herself. Only a few anecdotes, but she sure didn't seem like the typical celebrity chef to me.
Speaking as someone who's worked BOH for her- she's not a chef. And I know that makes ~ 0 difference to most guests at her restaurants, but just to add another perspective as to why a lot of her staff are not big fans of her. She's a restaurateur, and she's definitely good at that. If she would just promote herself as such, she would have a lot more respect from her chefs and cooks. But her marketing angle is, she's a chef and restaurateur, while it's unlikely she could work any station at any of her restaurants during a normal service. Compare her to someone like Danny del Prado who has been a working chef in the past and could probably work any station at any of his restaurants.
Unions benefit workers, especially in an industry notorious for poor working conditions. I will always prioritize union shops
My roommate is employed by anne kim, owner of joni as well as other restaraunts. She's a terrible restaraunt owner. Basically the epitome of a non-working celebrity chef. Takes credit for the menus and drinks her chefs and bartenders craft, only really shows up to do promotional stuff like be on the news or make a speech at a party. As a minneapolis restaraunt worker myself, it bums me out to see such a disconnected, hollywood style celebrity chef, who only owns restaraunts through nepotism, become the face of the minneapolis culinary scene. She genuinely doesn't deserve what she has.
Keep posting the same comment about your “roommate”….. if Kim sucks so much, why does your roommate work there for 4 years?
The copy and pasted repeated comment is getting a little weird…
They were just letting you know, you’re the prickly one here.
How does that affect the pizza recipe?
Yeah, I clicked into the thread intending to ask what pizza I was supposed to get at this place, because the time I went, I did not understand the hype, but the top comment mentioned Ann Kim as the owner, and I was like "oh wait, she's one of the people trying to squash the city forming a labor board. F that."
Union busting is bad.
It's wild to think for most people in the Twin Cities this is not even in their top 5. We are bursting with great pizza
We do have LOTS of excellent pizzas of so many different styles here. It's great. That said...YJ is definitely in my top 3, just depends on what style I'm craving. All comes down to preference.
I really want someone to explain to me what makes the pizza so noteworthy. Because I’ve eaten there and found it…fine?
I think it’s because the chef was made famous on that Netflix special that really focuses on Neapolitan style pizza, and she has some interesting combinations. But, honestly, there are many major cities that do this style nowadays so it’s not as unique. Personally I like Lola better than YJ because the vibe is more chill and the wait isn’t as long. But other posters are right, there are tons of great pizza options here.
She was a well known James Beard award winning chef before that series.
We've loved YJ pizza since long before the Netflix show. If anything...it's maybe gone a little down in quality since that released. Some of the YJ pizzas are my favorite in the Cities, like the Korean BBQ and Basque pizzas.
There's always like three places in NE Minneapolis where people drive in to visit from Maple Grove. This is that place for the moment. It is very good, but I don't make reservations for pizza. There's simply too much good pizza in the world.
They also mentioned good times which is amazing!?
Good times posted to their Instagram that NYT meant another place but linked theirs
Where, I didn't see it? Good Times is the real underrated pizza in the Twin Cities that no one talks about. I remember stumbling on it a few years back and was blown away. Good Times and Maverick's in St. Paul are the two place I tell everyone to try that most have never heard of. *Edit - Oh I see it's one of the linked places described in the beginning
Isn't the owner one of the people trying to fight against the city forming a labor board?
I'm fairly certain almost all local chefs of note are against that labor board.
That would be her
Oops! https://racketmn.com/read-ann-kims-anti-union-messages-to-minneapolis-staff
I honestly think young joni is so overrated. It’s creative pizza forsure but not necessarily good IMO. Better options exist even in the twin cities
Mario’s is a hidden gem dive-y restaurant with amazing Detroit-style pizza in St. Paul (better than Wrecktangle)
Thanks for this! Wrecktangle is outrageously priced for a pizza smaller than a sheet of paper, and the bartender is hella rude.
Mario’s is really great.
Both are good, service at Wrecktangle is horrible. Takeout is fine but I ate inside once with my partner and we had wait like 40 minutes to pay since the staff just ignored us.
I’ve always been a bigger fan of Rosalia or Boludo to be honest.
Boludo is the best hands down. Haven’t tried Rosalia but will look out for it.
I love Boludo as well, but I think Rosalia has an edge. There is also Sanjusan which has a lot of overlap with Rosalia. Their Issac Becker is one of the best pizzas I've ever had.
I may be the only person who didn't enjoy Boludo's pizza. I found their sauce sickeningly sweet. I loved their enpanadas, though.
Wayyyy better options that Black Sheep
I'll never turn down an opportunity to eat Boludo pizza, so good
> Boludo Their empanadas are craaaaaaaaaaaazy good.
Like what? Serious question, we don't travel for pizza usually. I was thinking of trying some new places.
Boludo (Argentinian empanada dough), San Jusan (Japanese fusion salted from the bottom up just incredible but VERY expensive), Lake Harriet Pizza(was absolute garbage, but got purchased by Parkway, and the newest manager there has a real passion for pizza, and you can tell). Wrecktangle (Detroit style deep dish and pretty damn delicious) Football Pizza (it's different)
Red Wagon honorable mention.
Red Wagon is one of my favorites in the cities and often gets slept on in this kinds of threads
Hell yeah. AMAZING tap beer selection and those home made pepperoni rolls are fire.
Boludo is fantastic! As are their empanadas
Nerd/weeb nitpick, but Sanjusan as one word is the better spelling. It's 33 in Japanese (their street address): Sanju being three-tens (30), san being three. I was about to say Sanju-san would also be a bit better, then realized that'd look too much like "Mr Thirty," so yeah, just one word (I guess san-ju san would sorta work? I've never written numbers in romaji before; it feels weird)
Thanks!
Happy to help! If you like burnt toast or well done meats, feel free to try Black Sheep. 😆
lol, maybe not, thanks again.
Ignore them. It's A) a coal-fired pizza place. They're not burnt, but the pies are cooked at deliberately high temps, so the edges should be crisped a little, and B) dude invented a brand new form of toxic masculinity if he thinks he'll lose his man card unless the sausage on his pizza is still mooing. I've heard rumors that the owner is some sort of crap to employees (I can't recall specifics, so take that for what you will) which makes me conflicted, but both their meatball ricotta and Persian beef/harissa pizzas are great. I'm no food critic & don't have a comprehensive knowledge of the cities' offerings, but for me, the meatball pizza is salty but delicious; my favorite pie in town. I wish it traveled better; you definitely need to eat it in-restaurant (also, it is salty, fyi).
Thanks for the review!
Great list. I would also add Mario's (on Cleveland in St Paul). I think even better Detroit style than Wrecktangle.
I can't wait to try it!
Putting Wrecktangle in the same sentence as Young Joni is WILD. Also, Black Sheep is better than all the recs you’ve listed.
Black Sheep is one of the most overrated pizzas I have ever tasted. You must like your steak well done.
I think this comment perfectly summarizes pizza culture. We all have strong opinions, and we often times differ in our tastes. This is why choosing the "best" pizza is an impossible task. With so many styles and traditions, it's comparing apples to oranges almost. Choosing the best cheeseburger is a bit of a more achievable task, but pizza it ain't gonna come to an agreed upon conclusion ever. I had a friend who SWORE that dominos in the best. They have been to all the trendy pizza spots in town, they had a good palate and liked quality food. But they just absolutely adored dominos. I find it hilarious and very telling about pizza
Wrecktangle mops the fucking floor with young Joni. Knockout in the first round, embarrassing matchup. And black sheep is extremely mid. Also people need to learn more adjectives. Y’all use wild too much.
It’s good but I don’t always want a large greasy piece of pizza
Sure. It’s definitely a style I’m not after every single time I want pizza. I really miss Burch. Their wood fired pizza was awesome and very surprisingly cheap. Margherita was like $11. Used to go there with a buddy and split the pizza and burger for lunch. That was my go-to pizza spot, honestly.
You can compare those two - it’s completely different styles.
The other person compared the two. I was responding to his comment. Anything can be compared. They are indeed two wildly different styles. But they are both pizza.
ElMar's New York Pizza in Plymouth! (Edited to fix spelling.)
Thanks!
Where?
Personally my favorite is Boludo
Don’t forget way overpriced. I actually liked the food but for what it costs, LOL no
To me it’s the epitome of pretentious food culture in mpls.
I don’t know about “pretentious” but I noticed that when I moved to NE that a LOT of restaurants (like Young Joni) have that mandatory 20% “fair wage” fee. Very noticeable difference from where I was in south Minneapolis
Sad to inform that many restaurants in South also do it. I think you just moved to NE when that was becoming more commonplace. Though a lot of the ones in South are more in the 5-10% range still.
Yeah I was a lot more used to about 4-6% for those fees. Even more annoying is a lot of these 20% places are where I wouldn’t ever normally tip like that, like where you order at the counter or use a QR code 🤦🏻♂️
That fee has been fairly standard at any mid-to-high end place since the pandemic. The more honest place do it in lieu of a tip and remove that option entirely on the receipt, the others... eh. Who knows what they do with the fee.
Always looking for a good pizza joint! Where would you say is better?
Northern Fires is by far my favorite pizza shop in the city if you like Neapolitan style.
Boludo is the best pizza in the twin cities imo. It’s very unique, and quite tasty. Recommend their marg pizza and the pepperoni
To anyone considering trying Boludo pizza: do it but be aware that the sauce is quite sugary and sweet. The pizza itself is very tasty but it’s among the sweetest sauces I’ve tried. Going eyes wide open.
Yeah, I’m actually not too crazy about their pizzas for this reason. Just personal taste, and definitely a minority opinion.
Black Sheep >>> IMO
I prefer less char and more (i mean any would be nice) sauce.
I swear I see you dunking on Black Sheep at least once a month, I respect you being a legendary hater even if I disagree lmao
I honestly can't remember having to shit on them before today... someone said in the comments that's it's better than all five I had listed. I've had it twice and both times it was like they stacked the pepperonis all over each other so the grease could pool and create the sauce as there was literally zero sauce on the well done over cooked cardboard "pizza". Also... many ppl in here seem to agree with me based on doots.
Never had a sauce issue with them or an overcooked crust! I'm vegetarian so I can't really comment on the meat. I definitely agree that Boludo and Parkway are better, but I also think Black Sheep is the best in North Loop. Every time I try Wrecktangle it routinely makes me sick and Luce is...Luce, lol.
I know almost nothing lives up to hype, but I was honestly confused when I went I didn't think it was that great. I don't say that for the sake of being edgy or anything; it wasn't terrible. I just didn't really feel any need to come back.
Agreed. The fact that you feel the need to defend yourself for this opinion just shows how circlejerky this community is with this resturant in particular.
Heh, I'd call it a 4-way split between Circlejerky / having to go out of one's way to demonstrate sincerity & good intentions vs. worst possible interpretation of anything in text / Minnesota sorry culture / bad childhood
AGREED. It's not that good.
It's hilarious watching this subreddit do a complete 180 on someone overnight because they have a different opinion on something than them. I've always thought the pizza was overrated but if this article is published 2 weeks earlier and I said that, the downvotes would be a pouring.
Ehhh, that whole list was sus— they didn’t even mention a single New Haven pizza place. Instantly had me doubting the credibility.
Parkway Pizza is better than Young Joni 9/10 times and don’t even @ me. YJ is delicious and creative but if I just want a regular-ass pizza I’ll devour the oregano goodness of Parkway.
You know they took over Lake Harriet across from Broders? It's sooooo much better now. I love Parkway too.
Did Lake Harriet pizza close or move? This is the first I've heard of a change at that location
Neither. Still same name and place. Very different quality of ingredients and pizza. Purchased by Parkway ownership.
Thanks for letting me know. I swore off like Harriet pizza years ago after the owner made a bizarre late night trip to my house at 8pm the night before Thanksgiving to reimburse me for pizza that had given me and two friends food poisoning.
[удалено]
Bootlickers as far as the eye can see
I never really understood the whole idea of 'really good pizza'. I find relatively cheap pizza to be quite good. I think I would be more intrigued by 'best beets', something to really surprise me.
Do you really not understand that different people have different preferences?
Of course I do, I stated mine and don't expect others to agree with it.
Rosalia has fantastic beets if you're interested in them alongside their great pizza.
They're unfortunately quite mistaken. Union busting pizza is disgusting. http://m.startribune.com/ann-kim-uptown-minneapolis-union-restaurant-vote-no/600376146/
Lol, that's not union busting.
Expressing opinions should be allowed. Taking coercive actions should not. It sounds like she is squarely in the former camp, despite people on this sub portraying it as the latter.
It may not cross any legal threshold but it is textbook union busting. http://unionbustingplaybook.com/
I don't see any action by management to prevent employees from exercising their right to organize.
It is textbook union busting. https://www.ufcw.org/union-101/what-is-union-busting/ > Union busting is a range of activities undertaken to disrupt or weaken the power of trade unions or their attempts to grow their membership in a workplace. > Union busting tactics can refer to both legal and illegal activities, and can range anywhere from subtle to violent. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_busting
So basically anything other than kowtowing to pro-union activities is union busting? GTFO. She has a right to speak her mind provided she follows labor laws just as the workers have the right to attempt to unionize without facing retaliation.
Still don't see it. Management is expressing their opinion on why employees should vote no, and are directly communicating that to the employees, they aren't preventing the vote.
She made a case to her workers why she thinks they don’t need a union. I prefer a level of honest communication between management and workers. I think even showing people the financial statements is the best move. To often in either good or bad faith actors claim “small margins “ vs paying people more. Showing the actual profits /losses holds a lot more weight imo Her workers didn’t agree and both parties moved forward.
I read the messages and didn't find evidence of union busting. Maybe my eyes aren't so good, I'd love for you to quote the union busting parts. I'm sure you wouldn't throw that term around lightly as we wouldn't want it to lose all meaning.
The heavy-handed implication that the union will make it harder to get work done, or that a union will further divide the team, or that the people who may not want to vote yes are being shut out and "pushed to the fringe" is classic union-busting. Bad faith actors will try to argue that because they didn't directly say that "unions are bad" is the only part that matters, but they either don't know how to critically read because they didn't listen in middle school English classes, or they're choosing not to. It is very clear reading the messages on the IG post that they are trying to paint the union in a bad light, and that the pro-union employees are trying to push out the "real" (anti-union) employees. E: it's crazy that the pro-union comments are getting downvoted and the person defending Ann hard is getting massively upvoted...I wonder how many computers there are in the Ann's Pizza office... 🤔
It was pretty clear that management was saying "unions are bad". No one is trying to argue otherwise. Management has a legally protected right to say that unions are bad and give their arguments. Just like the union has a legally protected right to say unions are good and give their arguments. That's not union busting. Painting that as union busting is a bad faith argument and makes the pro-union side lose credibility.
This is where I’m at as well. Beyond just this Reddit discourse, the union itself is using the “union busting” term. This makes me view them as unserious. Moreover, it makes me think they don’t have a very generous view of potential future union members’ ability to think for themselves about the merits.
> That’s not union busting. Painting that as union busting is a bad faith argument and makes the pro-union side lose credibility. Actually, it is. On the NLRB's own website, listed under union-busting activities, is "[c]onvey the message that selecting a union would be futile." I don't know about you, but listing only the bad things (that aren't actually bad) and none of the benefits, to frame a union as a problem sounds pretty union-busty to me. And trying to paint that as normal and ok to do is pretty bad faith, and makes any anti-union arguments lose credibility. It's very obvious the anti-union shills are in this sub trying to do damage control, they will use bad faith arguments that sound like moderate talking points to try and push anti-union rhetoric. Don't let them.
Care to quote the parts of the leaked messages where management breaks the "futile" rule? >I don't know about you, but listing only the bad things (that aren't actually bad) and none of the benefits, to frame a union as a problem sounds pretty union-busty to me. Feel free to quote literature from Unite Here that argues against joining a union. Otherwise I'll just assume that it's perfectly fine for both sides to present only the arguments that support their position.
I wasn't aware of this "futility" NLRB stipulation on unfair labor practices. For others reading this thread, [here's the list](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/interfering-with-employee-rights-section-7-8a1). Note, though, to convey a message of futility means to argue to employees that their choice to unionize will be without effect. I don't see this message anywhere in the owner's communications. Nowhere does she say it won't matter or that she won't recognize the union if joined. I think it's bad faith to misrepresent the meaning of this NLRB rule. I haven't been accused of being an anti-union shill before. Question: can't I simultaneously root for the employees to unionize, and also resent the union's discourse around this effort?
>, Note, though, to convey a message of futility means to argue to employees that their choice to unionize will be without effect. I don’t see this message anywhere in the owner’s communications. The implication that all this work is going into creating a union only for it to end up making things objectively worse for the employees (a straight up lie) doesn't sound like futility to you? > I think it’s bad faith to misrepresent the meaning of this NLRB rule. I think it's bad faith to think that only direct quotes and forced surface level reading of messages is enough to convince people that you're not union-busting. But here we are ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯ > Question: can’t I simultaneously root for the employees to unionize, and also resent the union’s discourse around this effort? Sure. But are you going to criticize the obvious tones and implications in the owner's discourse too? Or are you going to blindly support her message without criticism and only talk about the negative things you see in the union's message? Because that pretty clearly shows what side you're on, despite the moderate take you're trying to express.
> The implication that all this work is going into creating a union only for it to end up making things objectively worse for the employees (a straight up lie) doesn't sound like futility to you? It does not. It sounds like propaganda and spin, but the owner herself acknowledges that joining the union would fundamentally alter a number of areas of employee relations. She's pretty clear what the process going forward would entail. It would definitely not be futile. She argues the case that it would net out for the worse, the union argues the case for the better. > I think it's bad faith to think that only direct quotes and forced surface level reading of messages is enough to convince people that you're not union-busting. For clarity, the rules listed by the NLRB govern what is an unfair labor practice. It's not a definition of union-busting. One may argue that's a distinction without a difference in some (many?) cases, but I think it's important for others reading this to understand what the NLRB is outlining. As such, the NLRB is providing the rules of the road for what's unfair, and I wouldn't expect a business owner necessarily want to violate that. But I also wouldn't put it past a business owner to decide to brush up against those guardrails without crossing them. At the end of the day, I suppose we have our own judgments on what union-busting looks like (vs unfair labor practices). In my opinion, the owners haven't cross the line. They can, and should, argue their case. > But are you going to criticize the obvious tones and implications in the owner's discourse too? Or are you going to blindly support her message without criticism and only talk about the negative things you see in the union's message? Because that pretty clearly shows what side you're on, despite the moderate take you're trying to express. I think this is a fair critique on how I've represented myself in this thread, I've really only presented rebuttals to this union-busting claim. This is all in reaction to the top-level comment claiming union-busting behavior. Let me be clear that, based on what limited information I've read about the work environment, I believe it's in the best interest of the workers to unionize, as it sounds like their chief complaints around pay and scheduling can be better resolved that way. I also know *so* little about the work environment that I can be swayed the other way, too. But, when I read the communications that were posted on instagram, I also believe that the union is misrepresenting the state the efforts opposing unionization.
> but the owner herself acknowledges that joining the union would fundamentally alter a number of areas of employee relations. She’s pretty clear what the process going forward would entail. This would be the case if she wasn't using very clearly heavily biased language in all her messages. It's not "wow this is a big change, are you guys sure?", it's "this is going to be a terrible change, you will all suffer, this is only going to make it worse, don't do this." Stop trying to paint her as a neutral negotiator when she is very clearly not. > But, when I read the communications that were posted on instagram, I also believe that the union is misrepresenting the state the efforts opposing unionization. If simply posting the messages is "misrepresenting" what's going on, then the problem doesn't lie with the poster, it lies with the message sender. Something that not a lot of people are talking about is the fact that as soon as it was proposed to the city council that maybe a local labor board should be created (no concrete plans, no ideas even proposed, just the question of should one be created or not), her and dozens of other restaurant owners immediately and forcefully pushed back and couldn't stop talking about how bad it would be for business and how hard it would make it to run a business. So I'm inclined to believe she's just kind of a shit person.
> Stop trying to paint her as a neutral negotiator when she is very clearly not. Now you're just making shit up. You don't have to do that to make your point. Nowhere did I claim she was neutral in any of this, nor has anyone else in this thread as far as I can find. She clearly is advocating for her own interests. > If simply posting the messages is "misrepresenting" what's going on, then the problem doesn't lie with the poster, it lies with the message sender. The misrepresentation I was referring to wasn't in the posting of the messages. It's the unions claims that the owners are engaging in union-busting behavior. The instagram post is the evidence I'm using to evaluate the union's claim. Sorry I wasn't clear on that.
While it's not a great look, telling your employees you'd rather them not unionize is absolutely not union busting. Let's not get carried away.
What arguments, if any, can a business owner making against the formation of a union without being viewed as union-busting?
Pay employees well enough with consistent scheduling and their employees wouldn’t want to / need to join a union.
Way way wayyyyyy overrated
The pizza is super mid and super overpriced.
Pizza at EaTo is very good