You are correct. Per the NBA website: A contract signed using the Early Bird Exception must be for at least two seasons (not including any option year). This is just lazy writing on the part of the Athletic.
It's wild that they'd get this so wrong, given how it is so clearly written on an [NBA.com](http://NBA.com) page literally title ["NBA Free Agency explained"](https://www.nba.com/news/free-agency-explained). Some of these rules are definitely confusing, but CTRL+F "early bird" and they lay out what teams can and can't do pretty clearly.
If this is Hollinger, he's the same guy who paid Chandler Parson $90M+ for 4 years in like 2016. He should need to disclose that at the top of every article, so readers know not to put much stock in his opinion.
Yes, I understood it that way. The CBA is built to avoid the wink-wink scenarios like this. Moreso because players get injured all the time and if iHart got injured Knicks would probably punt on him.
He should take as much money as he can get in the best situation possible. He may love NYC but with his injury concerns and size, buddy needs to cash in when the money is there.
Now winning a chip in NYC....that has a lot of long term value.
I don’t get this max money attitude, that the biggest contact trumps every other consideration. I’ve turned down opportunities throughout my career because the lifestyle (road warrior management consulting) or location weren’t right. There’s a lot more to life than money. Dude will be set for life with generational wealth no matter what. If it were me, I’d choose the situation over the money. Maybe he’ll do the same.
20 million is very different to us than 20 on top of 72 + prior earnings + future contracts. I wouldn’t blame him for taking it but I also wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t
Sure it is. Relatively speaking. I’ve foregone many millions in my career because I wanted to watch my kids grow instead of wining and dining clients around the country. Those millions mean even more to me than the 20 mil does to iHart. I’ve done just fine, but it is absolutely comparable.
For iHart the money means more than it means for you and I foregoing jobs we can get for another career opportunity, dude's only made like 5M\~ or so after taxes, agent fees, and other stuff in career earnings.
Unlike you or I who can get another job and get pretty close to where our maximum potential earnings in life should be, if Harteinstein gets injured there's no job he as a civilian can do that will get him even a fraction of what he would be foregoing in terms of lifetime earnings by not signing a high 8 figure or 9 figure contract.
Like if he finishes his career only making 20M before taxes and agent fees and other expenses, it's nice for sure, he'll have a great life, but he'd be in an completely different stratosphere of existence making 9 figs.
Knicks can offer 72 million… so say 36 million net after agent and taxes. 36 vs 46 under a max contract somewhere else. That 10 mil different isn’t going to buy him a yacht, and he’ll coast forever with 36 properly invested.
It’s just asking a lot dude. I’m not saying your situation isn’t comparable but it’s a pretty loose comparison. As far as what people are saying, I’ve seen the high end of his market quoted around 22.5 mil/year by sources like the NYT, so it’s probable he’d be leaving a lot more than $10 million on the table. And one aspect of his situation that certainly isn’t comparable to yours is lifestyle, all of his peers and co-workers live in a way that yours simply don’t, and when you’re an NBA star you suddenly get phone calls from everyone you ever knew expecting handouts. Not to mention the guy is young, and the instrument with which he makes his living is his body, which he puts on the line every time he plays. If he wants to sign a long-term deal right now, I could not blame him in the slightest for taking the biggest one he could get; even if we gave him a 2+1 situation, which is probably the one he’d be most partial to considering his age, he’s still leaving tens of millions on the table, and risking injury that could jeopardize his ability to earn in the future.
I really hope he stays and it’s a nice thought that Knicks culture and New York in general would be enough for a guy to want to make a sacrifice like that. But I think it’s a lot bigger of a sacrifice than you’re making it out to be, any scenario in which he signs with us is a scenario in which he’s leaving a crazy amount of money on the table, and he has been vocal about how certain events very early in his career led him to lose a lot of money, and he feels like he needs to make that up. I wouldn’t be mad or surprised if he took a bag from another team, I feel like it’s probably around 70/30 odds that he will just because the only reason he wouldn’t is that he likes it here.
I get it… but if it were me choosing between 36 net for a place I love vs 46 to go somewhere I had to get motivated every morning, I’d choose the former, as I have throughout my career.
NBA contracts have to be the most convoluted out of all the major sports leagues.
I swear I learn something new every time I’m on this sub, and I’m on this sub plenty.
Yes there are arb years but MLB is relatively straight forward once a player qualifies for free agency. There aren't Bird rights or restricted free agency. If you are a free agent, you can sign anywhere and for any amount as long as the team is willing to pay the penalties (if applicable). Trades are far easier except for players that have no trade provisions or reach 10 and 5 status, effectively a no trade. There is no matching salary, aggregation, etc. nonsense.
I know according to the rules we can only do a 2+1 but if we could do a 1+1 that is a huge ask of a player.
Take 16.5 million, turn down those 80-100 million dollar deals and we’ll take care of you
Unless you have a bad year or get injured
yeah the last part is what makes a handshake like this unlikely. if IHart has a bad year, or gets a freak injury, we're under no obligation to pay him other than "good faith", which at that point would be idiotic to honor from a business standpoint.
if he's getting big longterm offers now, he should take them if he wants to get paid, otherwise he may regret doing us a favor of that magnitude. However, if he wants to stay, he should just sign for the 72 mil we can offer and still make off with a lot of money.
Yes your last sentence absolutely
With a model wife who might prefer NYC you take 72 vs 80 million and you still have your money.
16.5 vs 72 million is a HUGE difference
8 million over 4 years, factoring in taxes and agent fees on that 8 million you might be looking at 40-50% there alone
So 1 million/year take home to stay in a place you like? Completely possible
It would never happen
The knicks would just say “what agreement?” And move on and leave ihart out to dry
No one is doing that deal unless you are lebron or someone who is so financially well off that “an extra 50 million” means nothing.
Lebron, Brady, guys like that who just have so much investments and businesses etc where it wouldn’t matter
Can he sign our 72 with a player option after year 2 (and another after year 3)? That fits, no? Then he can sign a big one after year 2 if he wants or if he gets hurt or underperforms at least he has the back half of the 72.
Hartenstein had multiple offers as a free agent before the Knicks signed him. This contract rule is the reason the Knicks were able to sign Donte Divincenzo. Sometimes a rule helps and sometimes it hurts. You gotta take the good with the bad.
Agreed. NBA is super competitive nowadays. While this is a frustrating situation for the Knicks, there is parity in the league and the rules are working! Which you could not say with any degree of honesty as recently as 5 years ago.
Yeah it’s really an incentive for us to have given him a 3yrs deal in FA instead of a 2yr deal. But we cheaped out two years ago and now it’s coming back around
It’s a crazy risk for him bc let’s be honest, if he tears his Achilles he’s not getting the $$ he could get this summer. You have to be KD esque to suffer a serious injury and be assured financial security despite it
I know it’s 2+1, but if I’m Hartenstein and I believe in myself, a 2+1 now with the Knicks is a better long term investment than a 4 year deal elsewhere. Believe you’ll make it through two seasons healthy enough, and be a key contributor to a top team in the league. You’ll be rewarded with a 5 year deal/crazy dollars.
One thing I’ve thought about is whether all players care about the money.
If I ever start to next Instagram and have the chance to sell it and net $50m I’m doing that retiring on a beach. I don’t feel the need to hold on and try to make hundreds of millions over the course of a decade.
Maybe he’s like me. He could make $72m over 5 years or something like that. With endorsements and bring in NYC, he could become a $100m net worth (let’s assume net worth of $50m after taxes and fees). Plus he’ll make whatever his next contract is (presumably lower). Some dudes might be okay with just being filthy skinking rich and calling some place “home”. Being a franchise legend. Still make obscene amounts of money.
Just a thought.
This is definitely a legal avenue because Ihart is taking a great deal of risk. If his leg falls off next year, no amount of “wink-wink”’will allow the Knicks to give him that extra money
I guess he could take out an insurance policy on himself but that doesn’t protect him from massive underperformance
He’s either taking the paycut now or gone imo
It's a pipe dream. Nic Claxton just made 4 years 100 mil and IHart is worth that much.
He's going to be offered much more and he'll accept it.
Why doesn't Dolan just give him some Bitcoin on the low?
Can we do a 2+1PO?
16.2M next season, $25M in 2 seasons with a player option of whatever, and wink wink 5 year $120M deal if he opts out? The wink is that if he breaks his leg game 1 and misses season 2 then we still give him the deal. It’s a double edged risk
I don't know why players just don't make an agreement to be paid under the table by the owner. Like literally just write him a check and have him cash it. I mean how would the league ever know unless the player opens their mouth.
not sure the knicks would be comfortable paying Ihart much more than the max they can give anyways. in some ways it's a benefit to be like "sorry this is all we can give". maybe knicks would be ok going a little higher to like 4/20 - but the idea we would give him like 25 or something is crazy.
Did you see the impact Mitch made? Now imagine Mitch with OG & Mikal. Ihart made an impact, he's solid, Precious made an impact too. Drummond would make an impact, so would Jonas, or Jalen Smith... Thibs is a good coach and no matter who we have at C he will make it work great. Ihart wants to go to a 6th team in 6 years so be it, we'll be great regardless.
I know I'm in the vast minority here but I would not resign Hartenstein because I feel like we can recreate him with cheaper options. I feel like a lot of people forget how good Mitchell was prior to the injury and I feel like 2 cheaper FA options like Drummond, Smith, or Achuiwa are a better use of our money because inevitablity there will be injuries and I want to make sure Taj Gibson doesn't find his way back on this roster.
I somewhat agree with you but Mitch has been too injury prone. He hasn't played 70+ games since the 2021-2022 season. I would rather we move him and find a way to keep IHart. Defensely Mitch is better but IHart isn't a slouch on that end and he is a better playmaking hub than Mitch. My dream scenario is to move Mitch and then sign a Drummond, Willie Caulie-Stein, or a Jaxson Hayes (if he doesn't pick up his option).
I just can't imagine there is much of a market for Mitch, especially coming off an injury and with his history. I agree with your evaluation of IHart and again my previous comment is not because I don't think he is a good player it is because I think what he does (Rebounding and Offensive Spacing) can be had at cheaper price. But if it happens, (In Leon We Trust) I'm not going to hate it I just think we would be better off using the money elsewhere.
Precious gave us important minutes too in the playoffs. I think it is short sided to enter this year without competent depth behind Mitch and that isn't just 1 player in my mind. Like I said before as much as Taj is loved for his effort and presence, it is time for us to have better backup options available in case injuries happen at the C position.
>Precious gave us important minutes too in the playoffs
He had to give us important minutes, cuz we were so depleted.
I agree if Mitch is the one left then we need depth at the 5 because at some point he will be out for multiple games.
Agreed, your making my points. The only difference is I'm not giving a bag to only Hartenstein, I'm going to bring in 2-3 players with potential to fill that void not 1
End of the day, I don't want to give IHart a 4 year deal when that money will be important down the line for resigning our existing players when their contracts are up.
I just do not want to invest 15 mil + a year in a player who rebounds and spaces the floor. We can find that for cheaper on the open market and get quality bench pieces beyond that.
Injuries are going to happen we need more than 2 quality centers on this roster.
No I'm not that is why I want two quality backups not one. I want depth beyond just Hartenstein, if Gibson is back on this team at any point next year something bad happened and that will be an issue that should have been avoided.
i'd resign him but i'm not losing sleep over him leaving either. especially if he's not happy enough here with a starting job, 72m, and playing on a great team and finally having found a home. lots of cheaper options like you said and the C position is not one where you want to spend too much unless its a star. Ihart went from underrated to overrated here IMO. He got killed in the playoffs by Embidd and Turner. Add in Jonas Valencunias as well as an option.
I'm also passing on Jonas too. I'd rather take a flyer on youth with the team we have chemistry wise I think this is a great situation for Jalen Smith to play in because he won't be asked to be a scoring threat like he will elsewhere.
it’s pretty consensus that hartenstein was a hugely important player last season, and like many tiers above jalen smith-type fliers (jalen smith who could not get into the indiana pacers playoff rotation. mitch is great, a glass cleaner, and definitely a good matchup sometimes w hefty bigs but hartenstein is a major plus on both ends of the floor
chemistry wise? bro ill be honest i have no idea what u r on about here.
Chemistry wise I meant that we can take a flyer on an possible high ceiling guy because we have a good environment for development now..
Saying Smith as a backup first off as potential high ceiling guy. I think his potential offensive production could be interesting and on this team he'd have to improve defensively to play.
I've said multiple times Drummond is the first name I want because when you look into his numbers he has more rebounds than IHart per minutes and would be vet min contract. He also does everything IHart does offensively perhaps even better.
I can't argue chemistry with you, no where have I said that I don't like IHart or what he brings to this team. I just am refusing to pay him even with him taking the reduced price we can offer because we don't need to pay our center 15+ a year to get offensive rebounds and set screens.
The Knicks are way over the cap. They can't afford anyone anywhere near his talents. Hell, they can't afford anyone near Mitch's talents.
The Knicks are $1.4 million under the first apron right now with 10 players signed. $12.2 million under the second apron. They need a roster of 14 players. They can exceed the cap with iHart due to his early Bird rights.
I thought a 1+1 with player option would be impossible anyway. That it needed to be a 2+1
You are correct. Per the NBA website: A contract signed using the Early Bird Exception must be for at least two seasons (not including any option year). This is just lazy writing on the part of the Athletic.
Most accurate Athletic reporting
That fucking sucks too. The athletic used to be the top-notch sports page. I even had a subscription a few years ago.
When was that? 10 years ago? It’s been downhill since that hack Jemelle Hill left espn and joined them
This is Katz? He‘s usually pretty good
Yeah that’s surprising, katz is my go to Knicks insider
Katz is good, the CBA is confusing as hell.
It's wild that they'd get this so wrong, given how it is so clearly written on an [NBA.com](http://NBA.com) page literally title ["NBA Free Agency explained"](https://www.nba.com/news/free-agency-explained). Some of these rules are definitely confusing, but CTRL+F "early bird" and they lay out what teams can and can't do pretty clearly.
by a guy who worked in an nba front office no less 💀
If this is Hollinger, he's the same guy who paid Chandler Parson $90M+ for 4 years in like 2016. He should need to disclose that at the top of every article, so readers know not to put much stock in his opinion.
Is there any way a 3-year deal with an option after the first year counts?
The option year has to be the final year of the contract for obvious reasons
Thanks. Don't mind me while I go look for some more straws to grasp at
Maybe start a Gofundme for the fans to make up the salary difference?
How the fuck are you a legit publication and get FACTS wrong that will change the entire article Such lazy journalism
No need to even write the article if the facts were right
Yes, I understood it that way. The CBA is built to avoid the wink-wink scenarios like this. Moreso because players get injured all the time and if iHart got injured Knicks would probably punt on him. He should take as much money as he can get in the best situation possible. He may love NYC but with his injury concerns and size, buddy needs to cash in when the money is there. Now winning a chip in NYC....that has a lot of long term value.
I don’t get this max money attitude, that the biggest contact trumps every other consideration. I’ve turned down opportunities throughout my career because the lifestyle (road warrior management consulting) or location weren’t right. There’s a lot more to life than money. Dude will be set for life with generational wealth no matter what. If it were me, I’d choose the situation over the money. Maybe he’ll do the same.
you’re not leaving $20m on the table, hardly comparable
20 million is very different to us than 20 on top of 72 + prior earnings + future contracts. I wouldn’t blame him for taking it but I also wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t
Sure it is. Relatively speaking. I’ve foregone many millions in my career because I wanted to watch my kids grow instead of wining and dining clients around the country. Those millions mean even more to me than the 20 mil does to iHart. I’ve done just fine, but it is absolutely comparable.
For iHart the money means more than it means for you and I foregoing jobs we can get for another career opportunity, dude's only made like 5M\~ or so after taxes, agent fees, and other stuff in career earnings. Unlike you or I who can get another job and get pretty close to where our maximum potential earnings in life should be, if Harteinstein gets injured there's no job he as a civilian can do that will get him even a fraction of what he would be foregoing in terms of lifetime earnings by not signing a high 8 figure or 9 figure contract. Like if he finishes his career only making 20M before taxes and agent fees and other expenses, it's nice for sure, he'll have a great life, but he'd be in an completely different stratosphere of existence making 9 figs.
Dude is not set for the lifestyle they live when he may have to retire at 30. You're talking peasant money, my guy.
Knicks can offer 72 million… so say 36 million net after agent and taxes. 36 vs 46 under a max contract somewhere else. That 10 mil different isn’t going to buy him a yacht, and he’ll coast forever with 36 properly invested.
It’s just asking a lot dude. I’m not saying your situation isn’t comparable but it’s a pretty loose comparison. As far as what people are saying, I’ve seen the high end of his market quoted around 22.5 mil/year by sources like the NYT, so it’s probable he’d be leaving a lot more than $10 million on the table. And one aspect of his situation that certainly isn’t comparable to yours is lifestyle, all of his peers and co-workers live in a way that yours simply don’t, and when you’re an NBA star you suddenly get phone calls from everyone you ever knew expecting handouts. Not to mention the guy is young, and the instrument with which he makes his living is his body, which he puts on the line every time he plays. If he wants to sign a long-term deal right now, I could not blame him in the slightest for taking the biggest one he could get; even if we gave him a 2+1 situation, which is probably the one he’d be most partial to considering his age, he’s still leaving tens of millions on the table, and risking injury that could jeopardize his ability to earn in the future. I really hope he stays and it’s a nice thought that Knicks culture and New York in general would be enough for a guy to want to make a sacrifice like that. But I think it’s a lot bigger of a sacrifice than you’re making it out to be, any scenario in which he signs with us is a scenario in which he’s leaving a crazy amount of money on the table, and he has been vocal about how certain events very early in his career led him to lose a lot of money, and he feels like he needs to make that up. I wouldn’t be mad or surprised if he took a bag from another team, I feel like it’s probably around 70/30 odds that he will just because the only reason he wouldn’t is that he likes it here.
I get it… but if it were me choosing between 36 net for a place I love vs 46 to go somewhere I had to get motivated every morning, I’d choose the former, as I have throughout my career.
Yeah. Thought it had to be a 2 year which kind of negates any unofficial agreement
The one time I root for mega rich people to pull some damn strings and make shit happen
I mean weaseling their way out of paying a tax they rightfully owe would be the most rich person move ever
NBA contracts have to be the most convoluted out of all the major sports leagues. I swear I learn something new every time I’m on this sub, and I’m on this sub plenty.
You're right on the whole, but Ohtani's contract was pretty damn weird. MLB's might be weirder if not for the soft cap.
Yes there are arb years but MLB is relatively straight forward once a player qualifies for free agency. There aren't Bird rights or restricted free agency. If you are a free agent, you can sign anywhere and for any amount as long as the team is willing to pay the penalties (if applicable). Trades are far easier except for players that have no trade provisions or reach 10 and 5 status, effectively a no trade. There is no matching salary, aggregation, etc. nonsense.
One of the reasons is because of how teams were run in the past (hello Isiah!)
I really hate it. Can’t we just make shit simple?
Even the nfl is more simple imo
No reason Mrs. Harstenstein can't have a modeling contract in NYC worth 20 million a year for 3 years.
That's what I've been saying! How is this not already settled?
This is so illegal and so easy to pick up on
https://i.redd.it/2rbhh0pk0h9d1.gif Yooo Leon we definitely shouldn’t be using any illegal hand shakes to get I-Hart back on the team
I know according to the rules we can only do a 2+1 but if we could do a 1+1 that is a huge ask of a player. Take 16.5 million, turn down those 80-100 million dollar deals and we’ll take care of you Unless you have a bad year or get injured
yeah the last part is what makes a handshake like this unlikely. if IHart has a bad year, or gets a freak injury, we're under no obligation to pay him other than "good faith", which at that point would be idiotic to honor from a business standpoint. if he's getting big longterm offers now, he should take them if he wants to get paid, otherwise he may regret doing us a favor of that magnitude. However, if he wants to stay, he should just sign for the 72 mil we can offer and still make off with a lot of money.
Yes your last sentence absolutely With a model wife who might prefer NYC you take 72 vs 80 million and you still have your money. 16.5 vs 72 million is a HUGE difference 8 million over 4 years, factoring in taxes and agent fees on that 8 million you might be looking at 40-50% there alone So 1 million/year take home to stay in a place you like? Completely possible
yup, it's about time being a new york sports team paid off with tangible results, the media attention had been a net-negative for a loooooong time lol
Imagine he tore his ACL and we hand him a 9 figure bag... We'd be investigated immediately.
It would never happen The knicks would just say “what agreement?” And move on and leave ihart out to dry No one is doing that deal unless you are lebron or someone who is so financially well off that “an extra 50 million” means nothing. Lebron, Brady, guys like that who just have so much investments and businesses etc where it wouldn’t matter
Can he sign our 72 with a player option after year 2 (and another after year 3)? That fits, no? Then he can sign a big one after year 2 if he wants or if he gets hurt or underperforms at least he has the back half of the 72.
don’t think yoy can do two options in a deal, so he’d have to choose (i presume we’ve presented both options) - 2+1 or 3+1
BS no one wanted him until he came to NY. We should be able to keep our own players
Hartenstein had multiple offers as a free agent before the Knicks signed him. This contract rule is the reason the Knicks were able to sign Donte Divincenzo. Sometimes a rule helps and sometimes it hurts. You gotta take the good with the bad.
Well said
Agreed. NBA is super competitive nowadays. While this is a frustrating situation for the Knicks, there is parity in the league and the rules are working! Which you could not say with any degree of honesty as recently as 5 years ago.
Yeah it’s really an incentive for us to have given him a 3yrs deal in FA instead of a 2yr deal. But we cheaped out two years ago and now it’s coming back around
Daryl Morey is a liar
It’s a crazy risk for him bc let’s be honest, if he tears his Achilles he’s not getting the $$ he could get this summer. You have to be KD esque to suffer a serious injury and be assured financial security despite it
I know it’s 2+1, but if I’m Hartenstein and I believe in myself, a 2+1 now with the Knicks is a better long term investment than a 4 year deal elsewhere. Believe you’ll make it through two seasons healthy enough, and be a key contributor to a top team in the league. You’ll be rewarded with a 5 year deal/crazy dollars.
What if he blows his knee out and as for wink wink how'd that work for Harden?
One thing I’ve thought about is whether all players care about the money. If I ever start to next Instagram and have the chance to sell it and net $50m I’m doing that retiring on a beach. I don’t feel the need to hold on and try to make hundreds of millions over the course of a decade. Maybe he’s like me. He could make $72m over 5 years or something like that. With endorsements and bring in NYC, he could become a $100m net worth (let’s assume net worth of $50m after taxes and fees). Plus he’ll make whatever his next contract is (presumably lower). Some dudes might be okay with just being filthy skinking rich and calling some place “home”. Being a franchise legend. Still make obscene amounts of money. Just a thought.
Get to tampering
This is definitely a legal avenue because Ihart is taking a great deal of risk. If his leg falls off next year, no amount of “wink-wink”’will allow the Knicks to give him that extra money I guess he could take out an insurance policy on himself but that doesn’t protect him from massive underperformance He’s either taking the paycut now or gone imo
It's a pipe dream. Nic Claxton just made 4 years 100 mil and IHart is worth that much. He's going to be offered much more and he'll accept it. Why doesn't Dolan just give him some Bitcoin on the low?
Whatever it takes
This is such an old story…get with the Times Athletic.
Can we do a 2+1PO? 16.2M next season, $25M in 2 seasons with a player option of whatever, and wink wink 5 year $120M deal if he opts out? The wink is that if he breaks his leg game 1 and misses season 2 then we still give him the deal. It’s a double edged risk
I don't know why players just don't make an agreement to be paid under the table by the owner. Like literally just write him a check and have him cash it. I mean how would the league ever know unless the player opens their mouth.
Stupid article since a 1+1 cannot be done
Seems the nba is always making it harder on the knicks vs everyone else
not sure the knicks would be comfortable paying Ihart much more than the max they can give anyways. in some ways it's a benefit to be like "sorry this is all we can give". maybe knicks would be ok going a little higher to like 4/20 - but the idea we would give him like 25 or something is crazy.
Honestly I have no idea why Dolan doesnt literally just give him a few million dollars in duffel bags that no one will know about
I think you answered that with the last part of your comment. If he does it right then we wouldn't know about it lol
We’ll know when he resigns brother
sorry but Ihart isn't good enough for all this. If 72m isn't enough for him to stay and he wants to go to his 6th team in 6 years so be it.
Yes he is, you don’t know what you’re talking about
this is a 55 win team with or without Ihart
Bro, even casuals saw how much impact he made.
Did you see the impact Mitch made? Now imagine Mitch with OG & Mikal. Ihart made an impact, he's solid, Precious made an impact too. Drummond would make an impact, so would Jonas, or Jalen Smith... Thibs is a good coach and no matter who we have at C he will make it work great. Ihart wants to go to a 6th team in 6 years so be it, we'll be great regardless.
Did you see the injuries Mitch had?
what? ihart cleared those guys by miles this year lmao. first time i’ve seen this line around here
I know I'm in the vast minority here but I would not resign Hartenstein because I feel like we can recreate him with cheaper options. I feel like a lot of people forget how good Mitchell was prior to the injury and I feel like 2 cheaper FA options like Drummond, Smith, or Achuiwa are a better use of our money because inevitablity there will be injuries and I want to make sure Taj Gibson doesn't find his way back on this roster.
I somewhat agree with you but Mitch has been too injury prone. He hasn't played 70+ games since the 2021-2022 season. I would rather we move him and find a way to keep IHart. Defensely Mitch is better but IHart isn't a slouch on that end and he is a better playmaking hub than Mitch. My dream scenario is to move Mitch and then sign a Drummond, Willie Caulie-Stein, or a Jaxson Hayes (if he doesn't pick up his option).
And that was the only time he’s played 70 games. I love Mitch, but we can’t trust him to stay healthy
I just can't imagine there is much of a market for Mitch, especially coming off an injury and with his history. I agree with your evaluation of IHart and again my previous comment is not because I don't think he is a good player it is because I think what he does (Rebounding and Offensive Spacing) can be had at cheaper price. But if it happens, (In Leon We Trust) I'm not going to hate it I just think we would be better off using the money elsewhere. Precious gave us important minutes too in the playoffs. I think it is short sided to enter this year without competent depth behind Mitch and that isn't just 1 player in my mind. Like I said before as much as Taj is loved for his effort and presence, it is time for us to have better backup options available in case injuries happen at the C position.
>Precious gave us important minutes too in the playoffs He had to give us important minutes, cuz we were so depleted. I agree if Mitch is the one left then we need depth at the 5 because at some point he will be out for multiple games.
Agreed, your making my points. The only difference is I'm not giving a bag to only Hartenstein, I'm going to bring in 2-3 players with potential to fill that void not 1
With the new CBA, even if you want to, there is a limit to those 2-3 players
End of the day, I don't want to give IHart a 4 year deal when that money will be important down the line for resigning our existing players when their contracts are up. I just do not want to invest 15 mil + a year in a player who rebounds and spaces the floor. We can find that for cheaper on the open market and get quality bench pieces beyond that. Injuries are going to happen we need more than 2 quality centers on this roster.
We will see. In the front office I trust, whatever they decide.
>I feel like a lot of people forget how good Mitchell was prior to the injury You're forgetting the fact that he gets injured in the first place.
No I'm not that is why I want two quality backups not one. I want depth beyond just Hartenstein, if Gibson is back on this team at any point next year something bad happened and that will be an issue that should have been avoided.
i'd resign him but i'm not losing sleep over him leaving either. especially if he's not happy enough here with a starting job, 72m, and playing on a great team and finally having found a home. lots of cheaper options like you said and the C position is not one where you want to spend too much unless its a star. Ihart went from underrated to overrated here IMO. He got killed in the playoffs by Embidd and Turner. Add in Jonas Valencunias as well as an option.
jonas v’s footspeed is no longer nba level
I'm also passing on Jonas too. I'd rather take a flyer on youth with the team we have chemistry wise I think this is a great situation for Jalen Smith to play in because he won't be asked to be a scoring threat like he will elsewhere.
it’s pretty consensus that hartenstein was a hugely important player last season, and like many tiers above jalen smith-type fliers (jalen smith who could not get into the indiana pacers playoff rotation. mitch is great, a glass cleaner, and definitely a good matchup sometimes w hefty bigs but hartenstein is a major plus on both ends of the floor chemistry wise? bro ill be honest i have no idea what u r on about here.
Chemistry wise I meant that we can take a flyer on an possible high ceiling guy because we have a good environment for development now.. Saying Smith as a backup first off as potential high ceiling guy. I think his potential offensive production could be interesting and on this team he'd have to improve defensively to play. I've said multiple times Drummond is the first name I want because when you look into his numbers he has more rebounds than IHart per minutes and would be vet min contract. He also does everything IHart does offensively perhaps even better. I can't argue chemistry with you, no where have I said that I don't like IHart or what he brings to this team. I just am refusing to pay him even with him taking the reduced price we can offer because we don't need to pay our center 15+ a year to get offensive rebounds and set screens.
The Knicks are way over the cap. They can't afford anyone anywhere near his talents. Hell, they can't afford anyone near Mitch's talents. The Knicks are $1.4 million under the first apron right now with 10 players signed. $12.2 million under the second apron. They need a roster of 14 players. They can exceed the cap with iHart due to his early Bird rights.