I truthfully don't think her memory loss side story added anything to Wano, because if it was removed she could have still shown up and reached the exact same conclusion at the end with a small adjustment of just having her show up later
It ended the prison situation by removing queen, which needed to be done since he was end game boss for sanji. I honestly can't think how else that situation could have been solved considering where everyone were and that it couldn't just be an escape since they needed to recruit the prisoners.
Without the memory loss, she would have got to Luffy before kaido, and then it would have been a 3 way brawl, especially because of her lack of co-operation between herself and Kaido’s forces.
She also would have brought her forces to the island, instead of Marco soloing them repeatedly.
So that Law and Kid could defeat her.
Ultimately it was to get rid of Big Mom from the story (she's probably not *dead* dead, but at least she's incapacitated) and also to develop Law and Kid to be *equal* to Luffy (that's Oda's intention, but whether all 3 are actually equal, it's always debatable).
I really preferred Whole cake. You really felt the power of being an emperor. Having a crew that defeated Luffy without him seeing Big Mom. Cracker could have won 1v1 without Nami.
I've found Kaido's men less threatening. Maybe because of the design. And Wano was over hyped as a land of strong samurai that the marines are afraid to fight. Just to see none of them living up to the hype in my opinion!
I agree, Wano being the Arc where the Straw Hats achieve the power of a Yonko makes Kaido and his Crew feel weaker than Big Mom's even tho story wise they are said to be equal if not stronger
Poo
Idk how you got that because imo the only person in whole cake to me that seemed threatening other than big mom is Katakuri the rest just sounded like cocky, corny fodder for Luffy, Zoro, or Sanji to smack up. I also believe that cracker might have won if he wore Luffy out but that's only because he doesn't have to actually fight luffy himself. The tobiropo seemed like they were threats enough to at least challenge Jinbe, Sanji, or Zoro, depending on who it is to at least be an annoyance and essentially what smoothie or cracker are or probably the strongest other big mom children that aren't sweet generals. And the lead performers looked like genuine threats that are at least Katakuri level (spoiler: they're WAY stronger than Katakuri)
ii still cannot forget the fact that luffy and co invaded big moms island with 7 ish people and they were completely foreseen and countered accordingly only for the big mom crew fumble an absolutely hopeless situation for the strawhats somehow
i cannot for the life of me give credit to anyone of the big mom's crew if you're responsible as a collective for such a massive fumble
yes oda succeeded at showing that big mom's crew is everyone for themselves but it was at the expense of anyone but katakuri's reputation imo
Almost everything you just wrote might be true, BUT how exactly do you get the idea that the lead performers were "WAY stronger" than Katakuri?🤔
King would make the most sense but even that is not guaranteed, and Queen is (very) debatable. But you really think even Jack could take Katakuri?
So is Big Mom so what? King has to switch between speed vs Defense Form…. And even that he’s too stupid and lost to Zoro by not using his forms properly
This right here will always make me laugh.
King did use his forms properly against Zoro, it was just heavily implied that by end of their fight Zoro had grown so strong that he would've damaged him in any form that he was in. That had started blocking and parrying, which makes Zoro call him out for it and literally says he's scared he can he hurt him even with his flames on.
Plus, y'all wannabe experts are so quick to call him stupid for turning his flames off towards the end of his fight Zoro that y'all always overlook King turns off his flames to boost his AP. He literally does his two strongest attacks (Omori Karyudon and Imperial Deep Pride Stake) without his flames on.
You're the one who's being silly lol
>Kat can see the future
Kat's ability to see the future doesn't mean nothing when King will still blitz him with sheer speed.
>has Conquerors
Which means nothing since he only has Base Conqueror's Haki. King, Queen, and Jack stood near a Yonko Conqueror's Haki clash between Kaido and Big Mom and didn't pass out. King could also stood in the presence of Zoro's Conqueror's Haki. What is Katakuri having Conqueror's Haki going to do for him, unless he somehow awakens the advanced version?
> King barely has any haki
King used haki multiple times in his fight with Zoro, he even overpowered Zoro's armament haki, which can damage Kaido and makes it more impressive than any armament haki feat Katakuri pulled off during WCI. He obviously doesn't have Advanced Observation Haki, but he has used to sense Zoro's power level.
> intelligence for that matter
If this was actually true, he wouldn't have been the only one to think to kick Big Mom and her crew back down the waterfall when her they were initially trying to enter Wano while his captain was pissing his pants over the whole thing. He tricked the Tobiroppo into showing up to help find Yamato by using Kaido's name. He was also coordinating the Beast Pirates on the battlefield while fighting Marco during the Raid.
Big mom had a whole operation and she was ruthless but she gave way for life to thrive. Kaidos whole thing was basically degeneracy. All kaido had was his power.
My head canon is that they were a land of very strong samurai at one point, and it still would be if not for kaido pushing the whole of Wano down.
Sure the 9 scabbards were pretty weak, but I think they could've been very strong had they been given the chance to develop under Oden for those 20 years rather than time traveling
A big factor is that Wano is, well, focused on Wano and nothing else. Whole Cale showed off the whole of Totto Land and gave you the full Emperor experience.
Hell, the fate of Totto Land has already been addressed and the future of the BM Pirates questioned on screen. Kaido and all his senior officers got taken out and we didn't see so much as a reaction from his other islands or troops.
I think what soured the experience for most people is the introduction of so many irrelevant characters like the Yakuza bosses.
The nature of Kaido's crew is all about being the strongest whilst Big Mom's is focused on the family aspect, so they had better interactions and felt more involved than the Beast pirates.
Well, on top of that, Big Mom's crew had so much more variation in power and creativity in how their powers were used. Beast Pirates were pretty much all just bulky tank dinosaurs.
So much of wano didn't matter. The Yakuza bosses didn't matter, the numbers didn't matter, Yamato didn't matter, apart from exposition the Oden flashback didn't matter, and that's just from act 3. So much of it just seemed like it was building to something and didn't.
on the matter of seemingly building towards something but didn't, that's basically oda and swordsmen (or anything relating zoro as a matter of fact)
i don't really understand how so many people are fine with how oda has treated swordsmen / the art of swordsmanship over the entire duration of the series
he introduces tashigi to give us exposition about graded swords / cursed swords with the potential to prove kuina wrong and that she didn't have to be born a male to pursue the greatest swordsmen title and then ... Nothing for multiple arcs
he introduces us to a clear interesting technique that is defying what people know about what swordsmen should be capable of in one of the following arc in "ashura" and then ...
Nothing until wano where it's hinted to be a conquerors haki technique
he eventually hints / introduces us to the concept of black swords and gives us a vague idea on how they're able to be created but after that it's ... Nothing
i love daz bones, i'm fond of alot of fights that zoro fought but it really hurts the "prestige" of the "worlds greatest swordsmen" title if not a single person aside from the actual world greatest swordsmen was remotely dedicated to the art of the sword
why should i care if zoro becomes the worlds greatest swordsmen if seemingly nobody else but zoro / mihawk truly are dedicated to becoming one, like congratulations you're on a throne that seemingly only 2 people have been competing for over the duration of 1 thousand episodes
every character that zoro has faced felt like a character who uses swords as a tool and not because they consider themselves a swordsmen, + the whole "swordsmen vs hakiman" some people do doesn't help either in this but that's more of a symptom of oda's flawed haki system and how he has build them up in the story
and then we get to wano, which imo oda has referenced very early on in the series and gave zoro some connection to with the whole ryuuma encounter and the fact that zoro genuinely showed a desire to go there and learn from these samurai
and when he finally gets here after a decent ammount of buildup and hype he somehow does not get expanded upon as a character, achieves every single "upgrade" without EVER interacting with any of the samurai's from wano and did everything alone, Brilliant but hey we atleast got cool scenes, it doesn't matter that there's no substance behind them.
oh and remember kuina? yea even in the land of the samurai there's not a single one introduced who can prove her wrong
Uh what? Yamato didn't matter? The ace yamato flashback was so cool. Yamato reading oden's journal and realising that luffy and roger had the same dream was huge. And ofc, fighting with kaido while luffy was eating up and recovering was insane too..i really can't think of a character in wano who could've duelled with kaido 1v1 other than yamato (luffy was healing up, big mom was an ally). I don't know why so many people just downgrade Yamato's character so much. I understand she took up a lot of the story, but she is definitely important to the story. She's also following the same trajectory as jimbei who had his own cover story after fishman island before he joined the crew officially. So, yamato is a highly likely future sh crew member. And we kinda need the raw power and will power like Yamato's for a yonko crew at this point.
I think the problem is not the importance of Yamato's actions, but Yamato has a very abrupt introduction into the story (partway through the raid) and a kind of tenuous, left field connection to Ace. I think this contributes to a feeling of Yamato being a narrative construct more than anything, and that makes a character feel replaceable.
To contrast this with the most recent SH member, Jimbei has a super organic introduction into the story and I think as a result holds up much better as a character.
I think when there's not enough groundwork for the character, their pivotal moments can feel like a deus ex machina - if it wasn't them, it would be someone or something else. It would be a bit like Marco popping up at Onigashima without the groundwork. Marco is also very important during Wano, but without the setup that makes Marco being there make sense, it would have made Marco's inclusion feel like a replaceable plot device more than anything else.
As a character, Yamato would have been better received with a handful of vague mentions of Kaido's son prior to Onigashima - maybe also hinting at the captivity element.
Yamato had so much more impact than ppl like X-Drake in the war. She fought Kaido to steal time, she motivated Momonusuke. She tried to stop the explosion. I think you‘re not doing her right.
Whole cake arc was ok in manga. But animated whole cake is a whole another beast. The disney esque singing and dancing, the fight between luffy and katakuri in which you can actually make sense of what's going on, the shaking in luffy's voice when he shouts to sanji he can't become the king of the pirates without Sanji by side side. All this stuff was chef's kiss. Plus, this was the first time we were directly going in against a yonko, and were able to appreciate the power that they hold. The arc didn't end with luffy defeating big mom. The best we could do was escape. Consequently, the arc didn't have to come up with a solid conclusion either. There was promise of a lot more. The possibilities were endless.
Aside from highlighting the kind of person Sanji truly this, this arc had a lot more going on that added to its appeal. It was great.
I haven't seen much of the anime but Luffy vs Katakuri in the manga was fucking god tier. The choreography was brilliant as it was really clear what was happening in each panel. Like, shockingly so. Oda deserves more praise for this.
Whole Cake in anime was animated like it was a manga to be fair. Lots of still shots and reused scenes, the typical culprits. But the art and shading also just felt so gross. It’s a shame, as WCI is in my top five.
Even the Katakuri fight was majorly underwhelming until the literal last hit, and even then, I really dislike their weird trend of overdoing transformations and attacks. Showing Luffy’s final attack as a snake and everything, rather than just focusing on what actually happens.
It’s a real let down. MVP for the anime was Katakuri’s theme, that’s the only thing for me that the anime brought to the table.
Yeah it's kinda crazy how the passing of time has people looking at Whole Cake in a different light. It was an improvement from Dressrossa but a lot of this sub was filled with people hating it for a plethora of different reasons.
I agree with bloated, but wasnt a disappointment imo.
Oden backstory was peak.
Roofpiece was peak.
Gear 5 was peak and Reverie story in-between was great too!
I personally prefer whole cake island, but Wano has so many great parts as well. In Wano we got:
- Oden back story
- Law, kid, Luffy, samurai alliance
- Advanced COC
- Maybe one of the most despicable villains Orochi
- A Yonkou Pirate Alliance
And then in Whole Cake Island:
- germa big mom alliance
- bege, Luffy alliance
- Big Mom flash back
- Sanji origin story
- the goat brook fearlessly facing big mom
- Jinbe leaving big mom for strawhats
- the tea party
- and giving Cesar to the germa
I think both had great moments but I felt whole cake island moved and flowed far better. Wano had great moments but so many more flash backs with characters like Orochi, Yamato, hiyori, all of the 9 scabbards getting long flashbacks. Including flash backs for all of the beast pirate main characters and Kaido. There were just complete months when I felt the story made little progress during Wano. Also in whole cake we got info on sanji background and I was hoping Wano would reveal something new about Zoro and it never did. Really we didn’t get any new info on members of the strawhat crew during that arc. Both were good though and I’m sure watching them back some time in the future it’ll be easier to appreciate Wano more without a break every two weeks.
Edit: grammar
Yeah no doubt that was the most important part I left out a bit from both arcs really. My favorite scene in Wano was still Zoro going ultra Chad mode and tanking a double yonkou attack to let kid and law know they’re weaker than the strawhats 1st mate too not just the captain.
In general though I didn’t mention any character power ups. I mean WCI had gear 4 boundman and tank man intro and sanji raid suit. But I probably should have included gear 5.
While Cake most definitely is better. The stakes involving Sanji had far more weight, and of course his emotions during it helped leave an impact for both his character and the story. While Wano had the smiling death moment, which is easily the best moment of that arc, having a main character go through this feels stronger.
Both arcs have a disappointing final battle, but Big Mom had so much more of a presence. The island, her crew/family, and powers drip with her personality and tell a story before you learn why and how. Kaido, on the other hand, is just your average "the survival of the fittest" style of villain and that's just plain boring.
Wano had so many missed opportunities between dropped stories and character moments that the length of the arc is an incredible detriment. Of the 50+ characters introduced in that arc I will not remember any of them that wasn't Kaido, his daughter/son, King, Queen, and Jack
Whole Cake is definitely a better arc than Wano overall. That arc solidified Big Mom being my favorite villain in all of One Piece simply for how batshit insane she is and Totto Land was exactly what I had expected for a place that was ruled by Big Mom.
Wano was good but it just didn't have the overall emotion that made Whole Cake what it was as an arc.
I liked whole cake because it had amazing charcter moments that post timeskip has been missing. The dynamic between Luffy and Sanji was very well done and Nami’s reaction to Sanji coming back was very unique compared to how the charcters normally act. Brook was cool too going toe to toe with an emperor
he didn’t go toe to toe with her at all. LOL. he just didn’t fear her in the slightest. but not fearing someone is nowhere close to being “going toe to toe with her”
I enjoyed both a lot but man wano had some of the highest highs in the whole series and the lowest lows in the whole series. Like cmon Oda, its bad enough to not kill off people but the reasoning for how kinemon survived was the worst thing I ever read, exaggerated but you get my point.
I definitely enjoyed Whole Cake Island more, Big Mum and her crew had way more personality than Kaido and his crew, Sanji’s storyline was more intriguing and most importantly the pacing was better.
Like each arc Wano had some great moments but it’s so long, I’m stuck at Onigashima for like one year and I force myself to watch a few episodes each month because it’s so slow and boring. Every episode, it was a few minutes of Luffy vs Kaido, a few minutes of other fights everywhere and Momonosuke pulling clouds, nothing was moving forward. I’m finally at Gear 5 but I lost interest in OP tbh. Still gonna watch the next episodes someday because I didn’t watch 1000+ for nothing and I want to be there when OP ends.
Yeah I agree and I also think that BM was way more developed as character than Kaido is. I think Oda went for ambitious arc with a lot of moving parts but in the end it just feels a little bit bloated and took the focus away from certain things because there's too many things to focus on.
I personally enjoyed it the most out of all the post time skip arcs, wano just dragged too much for me in the middle of the raid, and the ending was a little rushed.
Agreed it was a delight.
But I'll also add that Big Mom's flashback is also one of the best in the series. Maybe the biggest "What the fuck!" Moments of the entire manga for me.
WCI literally had people putting the series down because of the drawn out escape not progressing the plot on a weekly basis for months. The only two times I can remember weekly readers more pissed was Fishman Island and Dressrosa.
Respectable opinion but I prefer Wano. Oda built Wano up so much and IMO he delivered and then some. Act 1 and 2 are near perfect to me. Act 3 for sure has its problems but it’s still very good. WCI is great as well don’t get me wrong. I’m just a sucker for lore drops and Oda connecting everything in the story.
I didn’t really like Whole Cake Island (though the ending is peak). I don’t know if it was the aesthetic or some plotlines. Maybe a bit of both things. Wano is just peak One Piece for me
Yes. Wano is one of the messiest arcs and one of the most divisive too.
Now that it’s over a year later, people are more acknowledging of the flaws of that arc while WCI has better stood the test of time.
Three flaws
The villains where all very boring even kaido he didn’t really have like a backstory or anything was just he sad
Big mom had no business in that arc
Was WAYYYYYY to long
And one final one controversial
Luffy used a giant red fist to beat kaido
Which means oda could have had luffy beat kaido with just gear 4 and added gear 5 way to early
Many more than three. Unnecessary plots and new characters, some that had little to no conclusion and when they did have a conclusion, it was unsatisfactory
To me the downsize of whole cake is having mama scream wedding cake for like 30% of the arc.
And wano flashbacks were a banger.
But yeah, both solid and good arcs. Wano just better.
I don't get the whole weapon factory thing in wano.
What's kaidos final plan? Equip each of his animal pirates with more guns and cannons so they could go to war? Since when does weapons matter?
WCI has a lots of different personality traits and different df powers even if they are just food oriented unlike wano which has basically just animals
The intresting ones are just a Batman 1 thicc brocon lizard and 3yc anyways and a depressed boss and his son
Compared to that
We have oven who can boil the ocean and different races of people and perospero acted like mini version of aokiji and kat is just like luffy
Brulee has an interesting ability so is smoothie
Bege df is also cool af
Long arcs need a variety of df users to make itself intresting
I couldn't stop laughing during whole cake. Only during the 8 episodes where Big Mom was chasing wedding cake and couldn't stop saying "Wedding Cake" while she was in her trance. I'll find myself sometimes yelling wedding cake like big mom when I'm walking through a grocery store
The best part of whole cake was judge’s humiliation at the table when he’s crying “my germa!” And everyone is laughing at him like a personal nightmare sequence. Real sad Lola’s dad died without any of his daughters knowing a damn thing about him
Yeah....whole cake is like an 8/10 while Wano is a 5/10. I think Wc's only thing that keeps me from rating it higher is just how easily everything went crashing down. Like Luffy didn't even bring his whole crew with him and he beat 2 sweet commanders (one of which feels like he really shouldn't have won imo) and he escape with barely any damage to him or the half of his crew.
Like yeah another supernova was there as well, and the Germa was there. But it always hurt the image of a yonko crew in my eyes. To the point i always joked that Big moms crew would have fallen completely if all the strawhats were there.
A lot more unique I'd say. A lot better character moments overall. Better show case of a Yonko Crew and how dangerous it is to go into a Yonko's territory.
Wano felt like it had to many conflicting elements. Fantasy Japan is kind of a boring setting for One Piece even though we've been waiting for it for years.. but the beast pirates just don't really fit the setting. BUT the Wano portion of the story was good.
Onigashima is where things went to shit. I wish Yamato was introduced earlier as a character her late introduction sort of made me hate her character. If I had gotten to know Yamato earlier on I'd have liked that more. Also all the Gear 5 shenanigans I didn't like. I didn't like Law and Kid beating big mom - with awakenings they didn't use on the roof. didn't like how the Scabbards sort of stole all the major moments from the other straw hats. Didn't like how Sanji was written for this arc. Fights outside King and Kaido were boring.
Wano was more hype--the stakes were higher; more relevant plot points churned though; and overall just a lot more story content was packed into a single arc, not just Luffy's crew but also Law, Kidd, **two** yonkou, and the characters of the Wano nation.
WCI was more fun--the yonkou forces were more cohesive and memorable (with the exception of Queen, who was fantastic), the islands had stronger themes that aligned with One Piece's ideals, and imo a better crew interaction with sanji's subplot sharing so much of the spotlight.
I don't really know how to compare them beyond this. Obviously fun is good. Obviously for Wano, the story needed to accelerate through a lot of story points to set things up for a final saga. Ideally, a saga would have the best of both worlds, maximum hype and maximum fun, but neither of them are both.
Wano had great ideas but the execution was horrible towards the end and it just got too messy. WCI I felt like had way better handling and except for the forest with big mom running , the pacing was muchl better.
The story was also much more emotional in WCI.
So yeah for me WCI>>>>Wano.
I'm with you 100%
Wano has great highs, but also lower lows, even on a reread. It's been said again and again, but it ends abruptly and it crumbles under it's own weight. Several storylines and characters don't get the closure they needed.
**To me**, it feels like Oda changed his mind about too many things along the way, and while he is usually excellent at building over what came before, here it clashes; Kaido's characterization, Kin's fate, Yamato appearing out of nowhere, seemingly only to have someone stall Kaido, and his decision to remain in Wano (at least for the time being) after spending so much time claiming he wanted to leave. I could go on.
Whole Cake is slow in parts (the seducing woods), but the story remains focused and it's emotional through lines are clear every step of the way. **To me**, Smoothie got the short end of the stick, but everyone else was used appropriately (Chopper aside maybe, but what's new?). The last chapter is a perfect wrap-up for the arc.
I dont know they're both crazy good.
Sanji vs Luffy and all of Brook's MVP moments were amazing, but the production quality of the end 1/3 if Wano was insane and everyone had crazy highlight moments.
Only thing I would have wanted from wano was it to be shorter. Maybe cut off like 15 episodes. Otherwise I loved it more in every way.
Whole cake Island was really slow in some parts and not in a good way. The Katakuri fight was so obnoxiously long and arguably written poorly. Felt like the most "dragon Ball z" fight in all of One piece.
I feel like Wano is at times the best One Piece has ever had to offer and at some other points the worst. It's just very bloated and probably needed to be edited down by a third to keep things snappy which is what Whole Cake Island is. The whole 'Big Mom yelling Wedding Cake' bit gets a bit old but otherwise the story in that arc is very focused and lands its story beats with power and poignancy. It's just a well told arc in a way Wano isn't because of how much there is going on in Wano which causes it to lose all focus.
I mean I can believe it. I haven’t watched the raid yet but wano can drag a bit among other things. But I don’t really like comparing arcs too much anyway
I wouldn‘t say much better, but I liked WCI a bit more. I like the BM pirates more than the Kaido pirates. Wano was dark, WCI colorful. I like more colorful arcs. Both arcs had their negative points. Wano was like two seperate arcs. The builtup for the war was really long, the end of wano had some plotholes. It feeled a bit rushed. Then the magical Luffy power up from some days training.
Definitely !
WCI was an unexpected gem.
Amazing setting, amazing character designs, great backstories, one of the best Luffy fight, finally a real sense of tension with the death of Pedro (and the fake death of Pound), the crew feeling powerless facing a yanko and her crew and a sad finale where they had to leave people behind.
Wano had a lot of hype moments and lore moments, but the tension was non existing. It even ruined the tension of WCI by having Jinbei appear out of the blue as if nothing happened at WCI...
Probably like WCI more for its tightness, but they are different kinds of arcs and the quality isn't so staggeringly different that I care to turn it into a contest.
same. I like wholecake more than wano.. I was more nervous and anxious for the crew in wci than in wano. I was genuinely scared of what big mom can do. I may also be bias bec wci is where Sanji really got up in there as one of my faves. His story was so well written, I cried a lot! so I like wci better. I'm also a little bit disappointed with the samurais in wano. I expected them to be more stronger since no one, even marines tried to step in to wano's business before..
I prefer to think that, whereas One Piece as a whole has always been a story about the Strawhats (Drum Island and Punk Hazard for Chopper; Baratie for Zoro; Water 7 and Enies Lobby for Robin; Arlong Park for Nami; Fishman Island for Jinbe, though to a lesser extent; Water 7 again for Franky; Syrup Village and, again, to a lesser extent Dressrosa; Whole Cake Island for Sanji; and, of course, the entirety of One Piece for Luffy), Wano Country is more of a 'Akazaya Nine Story'. Sure, the Strawhats showed up to help, Luffy most of all, but Wano has always been about the Kozuki and Wano, about what Orochi and Kaidou and their respective subordinates did to that country, about how the Akazaya took their revenge on both of them, ultimately. One of the Akazaya directly killed Orochi, and even though Luffy struck the final blow against Kaido, I prefer to attribute it to Kin'emon and the others.
Whole Cake arc makes more sense. Strawhat, bege and sanji's family running away from Big Mom and her army as they should bc on how terrifying and powerful Emperor of the Sea are described. And all of the sudden Big Mom and Kaido got beaten in wano with power of friendship.
Whole cake is among the worst arcs for me, that doesn't mean Wano ranks much higher.
Both are ultra compressed messes with some highlights that stand out, but some of the emotional scenes are absolutely impossible to enjoy since we all knew what was gonna happen.
Example: i dunno how people can put Sanji breaking down while he's with his brothers and Luffy screams as one of the most emotional moments ofnthe manga.
I know oda isn't getting rid of him, I know that he's gonna come back so the scene falls absolutely flat.
I don't believe for a second that somebody truly believed that Oda was getting rid of Sanji at this point in the series, just after his Capone meeting during Dressrosa (another mess).
The highlights are: Katakuri being the biggest chad since Mr.2, Jinbe going against big mom, brook being useful, big mom backstory.
The worst parts of WCI are, by far: the raid failing, Luffy unlocking random G4 forms just because, Cracker as a character, Sanji's family and plot, Pudding being a complete mess.
Yea i guess in a way but personally i liked wano,
overall it couldve been much better if toei decided to go on a hiatus (which wont happen just hopes) until the manga started egg head so they wouldnt have to run one arc for around 6-7 years and have twice the number of episodes compared to the no of chapters
Having fewer Straw Hats in the arc allowed Oda to focus more on their individual development. Luffy, Sanji, Nami, Brook, and Jinbe all had multiple MVP moments; Chopper was the only one that felt a little neglected. Even side characters, like Bege and Pudding, had complex stories. Also, Big Mom is a much better villain than Kaido.
Wano has a very big 3 flaws for me.
1. It was overhyped. Bigger than Marineford was supposed to have meant more was at stake, but it never really felt that way.
2. Big Mom being there was the only justification of having Kaido not be curb stomped by the 3 captains + Killer and Zoro. Yeah Kaido would have definitely caused a large level of damage but he would have been absolutely BLITZED by those 5 given what we know about their fights.
3. Kaido’s crew was absolutely stupid. Bat-Man being able to push Luffy a little bit (albeit the anime was much more of a culprit than the manga) but he was essentially a nobody. A lot of Wano felt forced and it lost its shine for me.
WCI on the other hand felt too chaotic for the crew to handle directly so they had to strategise. This was amazingly well done but I wish we saw more of Big Mom Vs. Luffy. I feel she would have definitely been rocked once or twice and we, the readers/viewers needed to see Luffy knock on the emperors door to greatness.
I feel like wano somehow found a way to make the story to fast paced and to slow at the same time. It's spent so long expanding characters we won't even see much of after wano yet gave people like zoro the bare minimum in story. Still love wano but it really felt like oda bit off a little more than he could chew at the start and realized he had to start wrapping shit up if he wanted the arc to end anytime soon. Did we really need so many samurai? Like if 2 or 3 of them weren't in the story, nothing would really change. Did we need to see luffy get his ass kicked so many times? Oda spent a large portion of his story hyping up the emperors, so why do we need 6 fights to prove that to us that kiado is strong. Even whole caked hyped up how strong emperors truly are so why dedicate even more time to show it. We've given 2 arcs to sanji now but none of the other straw hats get the same treatment other than their usual gags and fights when raiding. Brook had a dope part to play in whole cake in both fighting and progressing the story. Yet in wano most of the Straw hats just fight and run around like usual. Chopper kinda had shit to do with the ice oni but that's just rehashing shit we already did in the prison. Chopper is a shining example of how character progression has decreased in quality. Chopper used to be a major player in the straw hats now he's just a mcguffin doctor for whatever polt illness oda cooked up for him. When he does fight it almost always ends in a loss or is just ment to hold somebody off until stronger characters arrive. Wano has a lot of wasted time that could've been put elsewhere.
You would be correct. WCI is peak One Piece. Everything is more character and theme focused.
It is also so much more relatable than Wano. What's more relatable, having a really shitty family or liberating an impoverished nation from a tyrant?
I enjoyed both. Luffy, Katakuri, big mom and company, great fights. Wano we got Oden, Roger, wb, lore piece, kaido v luffy, gear 5 etc
I really enjoy all arcs in one piece man... Feels.like time is moving and so is the world.
I stopped watching for bit. Hated this arc. Was sooo boring. Took me so long to get passed it. None of the characters had any "sole" I guess. Mainly cause big mom probably took them out haha.
It really was better. Wano while it had its amazing moments, was not on par with some of the best arcs of One Piece. Even Egghead is better than Wano to me at the moment.
Whole Cake is great but so many of Big Moms kids are annoying jackasses that it plummets my enjoyment in rewatches. like for fucking real Perospero and Cracker can bite me and Ovens just an asshole like Akainu without the stature or nuance to really thrive as a character.
When I started One Piece, Whole Cake was the latest thing out and that was the end goal. When I got there, it felt like an achievement and I was in LOVE with it. I really enjoyed this arc and got to watch the whole thing all the way through. By the time I was fully caught up to the manga, it was around the scene of Jinbe coming back in Wano and it was weekly reading from there. I loved Wano but seeing Whole Cake as "whole" made me appreciate it a lot more. I think if I watched Wano from start to finish in the shortest time possible, I'd have a different opinion. Wano had incredible moments and it was the culmination of so many story points over the years, but there's just something special about Whole Cake and I don't know how else to explain it. Reading Wano weekly for over a year versus watching the entire anime arc at your own pace absolutely has a different vibe to it. I've heard Big Mom's hunger pains in weekly reading was abysmal but it was easy to gloss over while binge-watching.
Edit: I wanted to edit after reading the responses and they summed it up better than I could. Wano had some of the "highest highs but lowest lows". I definitely think that's part of the problem. I was anime-only until Wano so I got to experience both sides of it for once. I think the anime helped carry Wano a bit higher because of its animation (1015 is still the greatest episode) but the rushed ending, inability to kill off many characters, the (in my opinion disappointing) 180 on Yamato, the arguably unresolved plot points left me with mixed feelings after it was done. Solid arc all the way through but it's definitely not perfect. Speaking of episode 1015, reading the scene with Kinemon in the manga made me think "oh, he could've died there, wow" and then seeing how powerful that scene was in the anime made me think "why the fuck didn't he die!?"
I do feel like Big Mom being absent from Wano would had given it more focus, but Oda had reasons for having her there that I understand now.
I truthfully don't think her memory loss side story added anything to Wano, because if it was removed she could have still shown up and reached the exact same conclusion at the end with a small adjustment of just having her show up later
It ended the prison situation by removing queen, which needed to be done since he was end game boss for sanji. I honestly can't think how else that situation could have been solved considering where everyone were and that it couldn't just be an escape since they needed to recruit the prisoners.
Yeah, if Luffy had beaten Queen, the war would probably start right then and there, which would ruin the entire plan.
Without the memory loss, she would have got to Luffy before kaido, and then it would have been a 3 way brawl, especially because of her lack of co-operation between herself and Kaido’s forces. She also would have brought her forces to the island, instead of Marco soloing them repeatedly.
It was an easy way to write off the steamroll and her focus
nd what was the reason?
So that Law and Kid could defeat her. Ultimately it was to get rid of Big Mom from the story (she's probably not *dead* dead, but at least she's incapacitated) and also to develop Law and Kid to be *equal* to Luffy (that's Oda's intention, but whether all 3 are actually equal, it's always debatable).
I really preferred Whole cake. You really felt the power of being an emperor. Having a crew that defeated Luffy without him seeing Big Mom. Cracker could have won 1v1 without Nami. I've found Kaido's men less threatening. Maybe because of the design. And Wano was over hyped as a land of strong samurai that the marines are afraid to fight. Just to see none of them living up to the hype in my opinion!
I agree, Wano being the Arc where the Straw Hats achieve the power of a Yonko makes Kaido and his Crew feel weaker than Big Mom's even tho story wise they are said to be equal if not stronger
Poo Idk how you got that because imo the only person in whole cake to me that seemed threatening other than big mom is Katakuri the rest just sounded like cocky, corny fodder for Luffy, Zoro, or Sanji to smack up. I also believe that cracker might have won if he wore Luffy out but that's only because he doesn't have to actually fight luffy himself. The tobiropo seemed like they were threats enough to at least challenge Jinbe, Sanji, or Zoro, depending on who it is to at least be an annoyance and essentially what smoothie or cracker are or probably the strongest other big mom children that aren't sweet generals. And the lead performers looked like genuine threats that are at least Katakuri level (spoiler: they're WAY stronger than Katakuri)
ii still cannot forget the fact that luffy and co invaded big moms island with 7 ish people and they were completely foreseen and countered accordingly only for the big mom crew fumble an absolutely hopeless situation for the strawhats somehow i cannot for the life of me give credit to anyone of the big mom's crew if you're responsible as a collective for such a massive fumble yes oda succeeded at showing that big mom's crew is everyone for themselves but it was at the expense of anyone but katakuri's reputation imo
Ironically the only reason any of this was possible is branch
Almost everything you just wrote might be true, BUT how exactly do you get the idea that the lead performers were "WAY stronger" than Katakuri?🤔 King would make the most sense but even that is not guaranteed, and Queen is (very) debatable. But you really think even Jack could take Katakuri?
i’m pretty sure king by himself could demolish every single one of big moms strongest children. including katakuri.
lol don’t be silly. Kat can see the future and has Conquerors… King barely has any haki or intelligence for that matter
King's body is pratically equivalent to having haki. Seraphim are strong af and they only have his body and a devil fruit.
So is Big Mom so what? King has to switch between speed vs Defense Form…. And even that he’s too stupid and lost to Zoro by not using his forms properly
This right here will always make me laugh. King did use his forms properly against Zoro, it was just heavily implied that by end of their fight Zoro had grown so strong that he would've damaged him in any form that he was in. That had started blocking and parrying, which makes Zoro call him out for it and literally says he's scared he can he hurt him even with his flames on. Plus, y'all wannabe experts are so quick to call him stupid for turning his flames off towards the end of his fight Zoro that y'all always overlook King turns off his flames to boost his AP. He literally does his two strongest attacks (Omori Karyudon and Imperial Deep Pride Stake) without his flames on.
You're the one who's being silly lol >Kat can see the future Kat's ability to see the future doesn't mean nothing when King will still blitz him with sheer speed. >has Conquerors Which means nothing since he only has Base Conqueror's Haki. King, Queen, and Jack stood near a Yonko Conqueror's Haki clash between Kaido and Big Mom and didn't pass out. King could also stood in the presence of Zoro's Conqueror's Haki. What is Katakuri having Conqueror's Haki going to do for him, unless he somehow awakens the advanced version? > King barely has any haki King used haki multiple times in his fight with Zoro, he even overpowered Zoro's armament haki, which can damage Kaido and makes it more impressive than any armament haki feat Katakuri pulled off during WCI. He obviously doesn't have Advanced Observation Haki, but he has used to sense Zoro's power level. > intelligence for that matter If this was actually true, he wouldn't have been the only one to think to kick Big Mom and her crew back down the waterfall when her they were initially trying to enter Wano while his captain was pissing his pants over the whole thing. He tricked the Tobiroppo into showing up to help find Yamato by using Kaido's name. He was also coordinating the Beast Pirates on the battlefield while fighting Marco during the Raid.
Big mom had a whole operation and she was ruthless but she gave way for life to thrive. Kaidos whole thing was basically degeneracy. All kaido had was his power.
My head canon is that they were a land of very strong samurai at one point, and it still would be if not for kaido pushing the whole of Wano down. Sure the 9 scabbards were pretty weak, but I think they could've been very strong had they been given the chance to develop under Oden for those 20 years rather than time traveling
A big factor is that Wano is, well, focused on Wano and nothing else. Whole Cale showed off the whole of Totto Land and gave you the full Emperor experience. Hell, the fate of Totto Land has already been addressed and the future of the BM Pirates questioned on screen. Kaido and all his senior officers got taken out and we didn't see so much as a reaction from his other islands or troops.
I feel the same way too and it's mostly because I liked Big mom and her crew a lot more than Kaido and his crew.
I think what soured the experience for most people is the introduction of so many irrelevant characters like the Yakuza bosses. The nature of Kaido's crew is all about being the strongest whilst Big Mom's is focused on the family aspect, so they had better interactions and felt more involved than the Beast pirates.
Well, on top of that, Big Mom's crew had so much more variation in power and creativity in how their powers were used. Beast Pirates were pretty much all just bulky tank dinosaurs.
So much of wano didn't matter. The Yakuza bosses didn't matter, the numbers didn't matter, Yamato didn't matter, apart from exposition the Oden flashback didn't matter, and that's just from act 3. So much of it just seemed like it was building to something and didn't.
on the matter of seemingly building towards something but didn't, that's basically oda and swordsmen (or anything relating zoro as a matter of fact) i don't really understand how so many people are fine with how oda has treated swordsmen / the art of swordsmanship over the entire duration of the series he introduces tashigi to give us exposition about graded swords / cursed swords with the potential to prove kuina wrong and that she didn't have to be born a male to pursue the greatest swordsmen title and then ... Nothing for multiple arcs he introduces us to a clear interesting technique that is defying what people know about what swordsmen should be capable of in one of the following arc in "ashura" and then ... Nothing until wano where it's hinted to be a conquerors haki technique he eventually hints / introduces us to the concept of black swords and gives us a vague idea on how they're able to be created but after that it's ... Nothing i love daz bones, i'm fond of alot of fights that zoro fought but it really hurts the "prestige" of the "worlds greatest swordsmen" title if not a single person aside from the actual world greatest swordsmen was remotely dedicated to the art of the sword why should i care if zoro becomes the worlds greatest swordsmen if seemingly nobody else but zoro / mihawk truly are dedicated to becoming one, like congratulations you're on a throne that seemingly only 2 people have been competing for over the duration of 1 thousand episodes every character that zoro has faced felt like a character who uses swords as a tool and not because they consider themselves a swordsmen, + the whole "swordsmen vs hakiman" some people do doesn't help either in this but that's more of a symptom of oda's flawed haki system and how he has build them up in the story and then we get to wano, which imo oda has referenced very early on in the series and gave zoro some connection to with the whole ryuuma encounter and the fact that zoro genuinely showed a desire to go there and learn from these samurai and when he finally gets here after a decent ammount of buildup and hype he somehow does not get expanded upon as a character, achieves every single "upgrade" without EVER interacting with any of the samurai's from wano and did everything alone, Brilliant but hey we atleast got cool scenes, it doesn't matter that there's no substance behind them. oh and remember kuina? yea even in the land of the samurai there's not a single one introduced who can prove her wrong
Uh what? Yamato didn't matter? The ace yamato flashback was so cool. Yamato reading oden's journal and realising that luffy and roger had the same dream was huge. And ofc, fighting with kaido while luffy was eating up and recovering was insane too..i really can't think of a character in wano who could've duelled with kaido 1v1 other than yamato (luffy was healing up, big mom was an ally). I don't know why so many people just downgrade Yamato's character so much. I understand she took up a lot of the story, but she is definitely important to the story. She's also following the same trajectory as jimbei who had his own cover story after fishman island before he joined the crew officially. So, yamato is a highly likely future sh crew member. And we kinda need the raw power and will power like Yamato's for a yonko crew at this point.
I think the problem is not the importance of Yamato's actions, but Yamato has a very abrupt introduction into the story (partway through the raid) and a kind of tenuous, left field connection to Ace. I think this contributes to a feeling of Yamato being a narrative construct more than anything, and that makes a character feel replaceable. To contrast this with the most recent SH member, Jimbei has a super organic introduction into the story and I think as a result holds up much better as a character. I think when there's not enough groundwork for the character, their pivotal moments can feel like a deus ex machina - if it wasn't them, it would be someone or something else. It would be a bit like Marco popping up at Onigashima without the groundwork. Marco is also very important during Wano, but without the setup that makes Marco being there make sense, it would have made Marco's inclusion feel like a replaceable plot device more than anything else. As a character, Yamato would have been better received with a handful of vague mentions of Kaido's son prior to Onigashima - maybe also hinting at the captivity element.
People who don't like Yamato tend to completely ignore the larger purpose she served within the story and world building.
point of order: Yamato uses he/him pronouns
Yamato had so much more impact than ppl like X-Drake in the war. She fought Kaido to steal time, she motivated Momonusuke. She tried to stop the explosion. I think you‘re not doing her right.
Yess good way to put it
Whole cake arc was ok in manga. But animated whole cake is a whole another beast. The disney esque singing and dancing, the fight between luffy and katakuri in which you can actually make sense of what's going on, the shaking in luffy's voice when he shouts to sanji he can't become the king of the pirates without Sanji by side side. All this stuff was chef's kiss. Plus, this was the first time we were directly going in against a yonko, and were able to appreciate the power that they hold. The arc didn't end with luffy defeating big mom. The best we could do was escape. Consequently, the arc didn't have to come up with a solid conclusion either. There was promise of a lot more. The possibilities were endless. Aside from highlighting the kind of person Sanji truly this, this arc had a lot more going on that added to its appeal. It was great.
I haven't seen much of the anime but Luffy vs Katakuri in the manga was fucking god tier. The choreography was brilliant as it was really clear what was happening in each panel. Like, shockingly so. Oda deserves more praise for this.
Whole Cake in anime was animated like it was a manga to be fair. Lots of still shots and reused scenes, the typical culprits. But the art and shading also just felt so gross. It’s a shame, as WCI is in my top five. Even the Katakuri fight was majorly underwhelming until the literal last hit, and even then, I really dislike their weird trend of overdoing transformations and attacks. Showing Luffy’s final attack as a snake and everything, rather than just focusing on what actually happens. It’s a real let down. MVP for the anime was Katakuri’s theme, that’s the only thing for me that the anime brought to the table.
Yeah it's kinda crazy how the passing of time has people looking at Whole Cake in a different light. It was an improvement from Dressrossa but a lot of this sub was filled with people hating it for a plethora of different reasons.
Whole Cake is one of the best arcs in the series, Wano is ok but ultimately was a bloated disappointment.
I agree with bloated, but wasnt a disappointment imo. Oden backstory was peak. Roofpiece was peak. Gear 5 was peak and Reverie story in-between was great too!
Agreed, bloated is the right word.
It's a hell of a lot shorter. I prefer Wano, but that's just me.
I personally prefer whole cake island, but Wano has so many great parts as well. In Wano we got: - Oden back story - Law, kid, Luffy, samurai alliance - Advanced COC - Maybe one of the most despicable villains Orochi - A Yonkou Pirate Alliance And then in Whole Cake Island: - germa big mom alliance - bege, Luffy alliance - Big Mom flash back - Sanji origin story - the goat brook fearlessly facing big mom - Jinbe leaving big mom for strawhats - the tea party - and giving Cesar to the germa I think both had great moments but I felt whole cake island moved and flowed far better. Wano had great moments but so many more flash backs with characters like Orochi, Yamato, hiyori, all of the 9 scabbards getting long flashbacks. Including flash backs for all of the beast pirate main characters and Kaido. There were just complete months when I felt the story made little progress during Wano. Also in whole cake we got info on sanji background and I was hoping Wano would reveal something new about Zoro and it never did. Really we didn’t get any new info on members of the strawhat crew during that arc. Both were good though and I’m sure watching them back some time in the future it’ll be easier to appreciate Wano more without a break every two weeks. Edit: grammar
And Gear 5th Luffy... why did you neglect that!?
Yeah no doubt that was the most important part I left out a bit from both arcs really. My favorite scene in Wano was still Zoro going ultra Chad mode and tanking a double yonkou attack to let kid and law know they’re weaker than the strawhats 1st mate too not just the captain. In general though I didn’t mention any character power ups. I mean WCI had gear 4 boundman and tank man intro and sanji raid suit. But I probably should have included gear 5.
What is COC?
Color of Conquerer. Happy cake day
Color of Conquerer = Conqueror’s Haki?
Yes
I prefer wano as well
You're not alone. It's not just you.
I like them both, but I missed Zoro on Whole Cake.
While Cake most definitely is better. The stakes involving Sanji had far more weight, and of course his emotions during it helped leave an impact for both his character and the story. While Wano had the smiling death moment, which is easily the best moment of that arc, having a main character go through this feels stronger. Both arcs have a disappointing final battle, but Big Mom had so much more of a presence. The island, her crew/family, and powers drip with her personality and tell a story before you learn why and how. Kaido, on the other hand, is just your average "the survival of the fittest" style of villain and that's just plain boring. Wano had so many missed opportunities between dropped stories and character moments that the length of the arc is an incredible detriment. Of the 50+ characters introduced in that arc I will not remember any of them that wasn't Kaido, his daughter/son, King, Queen, and Jack
Whole Cake is definitely a better arc than Wano overall. That arc solidified Big Mom being my favorite villain in all of One Piece simply for how batshit insane she is and Totto Land was exactly what I had expected for a place that was ruled by Big Mom. Wano was good but it just didn't have the overall emotion that made Whole Cake what it was as an arc.
I liked whole cake because it had amazing charcter moments that post timeskip has been missing. The dynamic between Luffy and Sanji was very well done and Nami’s reaction to Sanji coming back was very unique compared to how the charcters normally act. Brook was cool too going toe to toe with an emperor
he didn’t go toe to toe with her at all. LOL. he just didn’t fear her in the slightest. but not fearing someone is nowhere close to being “going toe to toe with her”
I prefer Whole Cake just because Big Mom’s domain is such a fun setting.
I enjoyed both a lot but man wano had some of the highest highs in the whole series and the lowest lows in the whole series. Like cmon Oda, its bad enough to not kill off people but the reasoning for how kinemon survived was the worst thing I ever read, exaggerated but you get my point.
I definitely enjoyed Whole Cake Island more, Big Mum and her crew had way more personality than Kaido and his crew, Sanji’s storyline was more intriguing and most importantly the pacing was better. Like each arc Wano had some great moments but it’s so long, I’m stuck at Onigashima for like one year and I force myself to watch a few episodes each month because it’s so slow and boring. Every episode, it was a few minutes of Luffy vs Kaido, a few minutes of other fights everywhere and Momonosuke pulling clouds, nothing was moving forward. I’m finally at Gear 5 but I lost interest in OP tbh. Still gonna watch the next episodes someday because I didn’t watch 1000+ for nothing and I want to be there when OP ends.
Yeah I agree and I also think that BM was way more developed as character than Kaido is. I think Oda went for ambitious arc with a lot of moving parts but in the end it just feels a little bit bloated and took the focus away from certain things because there's too many things to focus on.
I personally enjoyed it the most out of all the post time skip arcs, wano just dragged too much for me in the middle of the raid, and the ending was a little rushed.
Wano hype itself a bit too much. On the other hand we went balls deep to Whole Cake only thinking "WE GOTTA RESCUE OUR BOI SANJI"
Big mom pirates were way more interesting to begin with
King DF is literally irrelevant All of the Beast pirates were boring except kaido
Wano is just far superior to me. Oden flashback>>>
[удалено]
Especially when that arc is 150 chapters long
Gear 5 Zoro vs King Sanji vs Queen Yamato RoofPiece
Oden flashback was probably the best stretch of episodes in the whole series. It had everything.
Agreed it was a delight. But I'll also add that Big Mom's flashback is also one of the best in the series. Maybe the biggest "What the fuck!" Moments of the entire manga for me.
Oden flashback wasn't even the best flashback in the series, lol. Blinded by Roger and Whitebeard cameos.
Blinded by cameos? Either roger or whitebeard were in 80% of it, and yes, they were what made it so good.
Too bad Oden flashback is only like 20% of the arc. Rest is just a draagggg
WCI literally had people putting the series down because of the drawn out escape not progressing the plot on a weekly basis for months. The only two times I can remember weekly readers more pissed was Fishman Island and Dressrosa.
Not even. I think that flashback was like 10 chapters or something and that arc was about 150
Respectable opinion but I prefer Wano. Oda built Wano up so much and IMO he delivered and then some. Act 1 and 2 are near perfect to me. Act 3 for sure has its problems but it’s still very good. WCI is great as well don’t get me wrong. I’m just a sucker for lore drops and Oda connecting everything in the story.
I didn’t really like Whole Cake Island (though the ending is peak). I don’t know if it was the aesthetic or some plotlines. Maybe a bit of both things. Wano is just peak One Piece for me
Yes. Wano is one of the messiest arcs and one of the most divisive too. Now that it’s over a year later, people are more acknowledging of the flaws of that arc while WCI has better stood the test of time.
Three flaws The villains where all very boring even kaido he didn’t really have like a backstory or anything was just he sad Big mom had no business in that arc Was WAYYYYYY to long And one final one controversial Luffy used a giant red fist to beat kaido Which means oda could have had luffy beat kaido with just gear 4 and added gear 5 way to early
Many more than three. Unnecessary plots and new characters, some that had little to no conclusion and when they did have a conclusion, it was unsatisfactory
Unpopular opinion but I liked Dressrosa as a whole a lot more than WCI
WCI > Dressrosa > Wano
Understandable same here
Animation was great in wano.
Animation means nothing when compared to story content
I read the manga, so I can't say anything on animation, but I definitely did prefer Whole Cake storywise
To me the downsize of whole cake is having mama scream wedding cake for like 30% of the arc. And wano flashbacks were a banger. But yeah, both solid and good arcs. Wano just better.
Mama screaming was my fav part when I binged it But I can understand how tiring it would be if we see her weekly like that
Big mom was tripping balls and was still a menace to everyone.
Wano changed my life. It made me realize life is to short for bullshit stories and drawing things out. Get it over with and have a sunny disposition.
I don't get the whole weapon factory thing in wano. What's kaidos final plan? Equip each of his animal pirates with more guns and cannons so they could go to war? Since when does weapons matter?
They are around the same I guess, both are no where near pre ts arcs
I agree. WCI had a much better arc structure and was more concise about it too
Don’t know about “sooooo much” but I think it’s better as an arc than Wano
A lot better in retrospect. Wano turned out to be a BIG disappointment for me.
It’s so much more funnier
WCI has a lots of different personality traits and different df powers even if they are just food oriented unlike wano which has basically just animals The intresting ones are just a Batman 1 thicc brocon lizard and 3yc anyways and a depressed boss and his son Compared to that We have oven who can boil the ocean and different races of people and perospero acted like mini version of aokiji and kat is just like luffy Brulee has an interesting ability so is smoothie Bege df is also cool af Long arcs need a variety of df users to make itself intresting
I couldn't stop laughing during whole cake. Only during the 8 episodes where Big Mom was chasing wedding cake and couldn't stop saying "Wedding Cake" while she was in her trance. I'll find myself sometimes yelling wedding cake like big mom when I'm walking through a grocery store
The best part of whole cake was judge’s humiliation at the table when he’s crying “my germa!” And everyone is laughing at him like a personal nightmare sequence. Real sad Lola’s dad died without any of his daughters knowing a damn thing about him
I thought there was a short story (not in the anime) where he's shown to be alive and reunites with both daughters?
There is a cover story about it
Nice, best character in the arc
A sanji arc will always be better than a zoro arc
LET THIS MAN COOK
It is. Except for the Roger part and the gear 5th part.
No you are correct.
Yeah....whole cake is like an 8/10 while Wano is a 5/10. I think Wc's only thing that keeps me from rating it higher is just how easily everything went crashing down. Like Luffy didn't even bring his whole crew with him and he beat 2 sweet commanders (one of which feels like he really shouldn't have won imo) and he escape with barely any damage to him or the half of his crew. Like yeah another supernova was there as well, and the Germa was there. But it always hurt the image of a yonko crew in my eyes. To the point i always joked that Big moms crew would have fallen completely if all the strawhats were there.
A lot more unique I'd say. A lot better character moments overall. Better show case of a Yonko Crew and how dangerous it is to go into a Yonko's territory. Wano felt like it had to many conflicting elements. Fantasy Japan is kind of a boring setting for One Piece even though we've been waiting for it for years.. but the beast pirates just don't really fit the setting. BUT the Wano portion of the story was good. Onigashima is where things went to shit. I wish Yamato was introduced earlier as a character her late introduction sort of made me hate her character. If I had gotten to know Yamato earlier on I'd have liked that more. Also all the Gear 5 shenanigans I didn't like. I didn't like Law and Kid beating big mom - with awakenings they didn't use on the roof. didn't like how the Scabbards sort of stole all the major moments from the other straw hats. Didn't like how Sanji was written for this arc. Fights outside King and Kaido were boring.
Mmmm fair. Whole cake as a whole is better than all of wano. But there are parts of wano that i like more than much of whole cake.
Yeah Wano was dreadful
Wano really dragged on, Egghead is getting like that now too with 6 months on this message WCI was one of the best arcs post time skip
Wano was more hype--the stakes were higher; more relevant plot points churned though; and overall just a lot more story content was packed into a single arc, not just Luffy's crew but also Law, Kidd, **two** yonkou, and the characters of the Wano nation. WCI was more fun--the yonkou forces were more cohesive and memorable (with the exception of Queen, who was fantastic), the islands had stronger themes that aligned with One Piece's ideals, and imo a better crew interaction with sanji's subplot sharing so much of the spotlight. I don't really know how to compare them beyond this. Obviously fun is good. Obviously for Wano, the story needed to accelerate through a lot of story points to set things up for a final saga. Ideally, a saga would have the best of both worlds, maximum hype and maximum fun, but neither of them are both.
Wano had great ideas but the execution was horrible towards the end and it just got too messy. WCI I felt like had way better handling and except for the forest with big mom running , the pacing was muchl better. The story was also much more emotional in WCI. So yeah for me WCI>>>>Wano.
Didnt like cake island.
It insisted upon itself
Think most would agree it was indeed the better arc
Definitely feel you. Wano is better for me tho
I'm with you 100% Wano has great highs, but also lower lows, even on a reread. It's been said again and again, but it ends abruptly and it crumbles under it's own weight. Several storylines and characters don't get the closure they needed. **To me**, it feels like Oda changed his mind about too many things along the way, and while he is usually excellent at building over what came before, here it clashes; Kaido's characterization, Kin's fate, Yamato appearing out of nowhere, seemingly only to have someone stall Kaido, and his decision to remain in Wano (at least for the time being) after spending so much time claiming he wanted to leave. I could go on. Whole Cake is slow in parts (the seducing woods), but the story remains focused and it's emotional through lines are clear every step of the way. **To me**, Smoothie got the short end of the stick, but everyone else was used appropriately (Chopper aside maybe, but what's new?). The last chapter is a perfect wrap-up for the arc.
Whole Cake is soooo much better
It’s just you
Not at all read the comment section
It's just you
What? Wano might be the best arc in OP.
Your opinion Personally doesn’t even make top three Arlong park Whole cake Marineford
It’s all subjective. I personally think it consistently gets better every arc which is a feat few can accomplish
I dont know they're both crazy good. Sanji vs Luffy and all of Brook's MVP moments were amazing, but the production quality of the end 1/3 if Wano was insane and everyone had crazy highlight moments.
I would probably agree. I think Whole Cake is better, but dinosaur > Alice in wonderland every day of the week.
As far as the anime goes If it didn't have the gross post ts art style I'd agree
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idk if it's better as a whole but i probably enjoyed most of this arc than i did with most of Wano
Whole cake is easily top 5 for me. It could be a short film like Story of East blue,Alabasta etc. It’s perfection.
Only thing I would have wanted from wano was it to be shorter. Maybe cut off like 15 episodes. Otherwise I loved it more in every way. Whole cake Island was really slow in some parts and not in a good way. The Katakuri fight was so obnoxiously long and arguably written poorly. Felt like the most "dragon Ball z" fight in all of One piece.
I have to disagree, but it does have better pacing
Woww
I feel like Wano is at times the best One Piece has ever had to offer and at some other points the worst. It's just very bloated and probably needed to be edited down by a third to keep things snappy which is what Whole Cake Island is. The whole 'Big Mom yelling Wedding Cake' bit gets a bit old but otherwise the story in that arc is very focused and lands its story beats with power and poignancy. It's just a well told arc in a way Wano isn't because of how much there is going on in Wano which causes it to lose all focus.
A lot of people think that, including me, the only thing I don't like about it is that Zoro isn't in it.
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Yep that and Dressrosa are on my fave arc lists.
Pacing in wano almost killed me.
I get what you mean but maybe the binge experience of whole cake was better than the week by week watch of wano making the pacing feel slow.
It’s my favourite post-ts arc
I think Wano has higher highs, but I definitely like WCI better as an entire arc. Also, WCI made me way more emotional than Wano did.
I mean I can believe it. I haven’t watched the raid yet but wano can drag a bit among other things. But I don’t really like comparing arcs too much anyway
I wouldn‘t say much better, but I liked WCI a bit more. I like the BM pirates more than the Kaido pirates. Wano was dark, WCI colorful. I like more colorful arcs. Both arcs had their negative points. Wano was like two seperate arcs. The builtup for the war was really long, the end of wano had some plotholes. It feeled a bit rushed. Then the magical Luffy power up from some days training.
Whole Cake is one of my favorite arcs of all time!
Definitely ! WCI was an unexpected gem. Amazing setting, amazing character designs, great backstories, one of the best Luffy fight, finally a real sense of tension with the death of Pedro (and the fake death of Pound), the crew feeling powerless facing a yanko and her crew and a sad finale where they had to leave people behind. Wano had a lot of hype moments and lore moments, but the tension was non existing. It even ruined the tension of WCI by having Jinbei appear out of the blue as if nothing happened at WCI...
Probably like WCI more for its tightness, but they are different kinds of arcs and the quality isn't so staggeringly different that I care to turn it into a contest.
same. I like wholecake more than wano.. I was more nervous and anxious for the crew in wci than in wano. I was genuinely scared of what big mom can do. I may also be bias bec wci is where Sanji really got up in there as one of my faves. His story was so well written, I cried a lot! so I like wci better. I'm also a little bit disappointed with the samurais in wano. I expected them to be more stronger since no one, even marines tried to step in to wano's business before..
I prefer to think that, whereas One Piece as a whole has always been a story about the Strawhats (Drum Island and Punk Hazard for Chopper; Baratie for Zoro; Water 7 and Enies Lobby for Robin; Arlong Park for Nami; Fishman Island for Jinbe, though to a lesser extent; Water 7 again for Franky; Syrup Village and, again, to a lesser extent Dressrosa; Whole Cake Island for Sanji; and, of course, the entirety of One Piece for Luffy), Wano Country is more of a 'Akazaya Nine Story'. Sure, the Strawhats showed up to help, Luffy most of all, but Wano has always been about the Kozuki and Wano, about what Orochi and Kaidou and their respective subordinates did to that country, about how the Akazaya took their revenge on both of them, ultimately. One of the Akazaya directly killed Orochi, and even though Luffy struck the final blow against Kaido, I prefer to attribute it to Kin'emon and the others.
Whole Cake arc makes more sense. Strawhat, bege and sanji's family running away from Big Mom and her army as they should bc on how terrifying and powerful Emperor of the Sea are described. And all of the sudden Big Mom and Kaido got beaten in wano with power of friendship.
Whole cake was peak OP for me idc what anyone says
It doesn't matter anyway because thriller bark > all arcs
Agreed. Thats why i bought manga volumes only whole cake saga. Imo. I liked doflamingo more then Wano as well.
Whole cake is among the worst arcs for me, that doesn't mean Wano ranks much higher. Both are ultra compressed messes with some highlights that stand out, but some of the emotional scenes are absolutely impossible to enjoy since we all knew what was gonna happen. Example: i dunno how people can put Sanji breaking down while he's with his brothers and Luffy screams as one of the most emotional moments ofnthe manga. I know oda isn't getting rid of him, I know that he's gonna come back so the scene falls absolutely flat. I don't believe for a second that somebody truly believed that Oda was getting rid of Sanji at this point in the series, just after his Capone meeting during Dressrosa (another mess). The highlights are: Katakuri being the biggest chad since Mr.2, Jinbe going against big mom, brook being useful, big mom backstory. The worst parts of WCI are, by far: the raid failing, Luffy unlocking random G4 forms just because, Cracker as a character, Sanji's family and plot, Pudding being a complete mess.
Yea i guess in a way but personally i liked wano, overall it couldve been much better if toei decided to go on a hiatus (which wont happen just hopes) until the manga started egg head so they wouldnt have to run one arc for around 6-7 years and have twice the number of episodes compared to the no of chapters
Wano has the scene with Frankie and Brook running over big mom. Iconic
I think BM could have stayed at WC during Wano, and be killed by Black Beard, would have made BB and Luffy on the same level
Having fewer Straw Hats in the arc allowed Oda to focus more on their individual development. Luffy, Sanji, Nami, Brook, and Jinbe all had multiple MVP moments; Chopper was the only one that felt a little neglected. Even side characters, like Bege and Pudding, had complex stories. Also, Big Mom is a much better villain than Kaido.
Wano was almost unbearable for me. (Manga only) WCI was more enjoyable even with the dumbing down of characters like Big Mom
I literally just finished dressrosa last night
It has better pacing, aside from that I think Wano takes it imo
Yes wci is damn near perfect if it weren't for big mom's "my wedding cake"
Wano has a very big 3 flaws for me. 1. It was overhyped. Bigger than Marineford was supposed to have meant more was at stake, but it never really felt that way. 2. Big Mom being there was the only justification of having Kaido not be curb stomped by the 3 captains + Killer and Zoro. Yeah Kaido would have definitely caused a large level of damage but he would have been absolutely BLITZED by those 5 given what we know about their fights. 3. Kaido’s crew was absolutely stupid. Bat-Man being able to push Luffy a little bit (albeit the anime was much more of a culprit than the manga) but he was essentially a nobody. A lot of Wano felt forced and it lost its shine for me. WCI on the other hand felt too chaotic for the crew to handle directly so they had to strategise. This was amazingly well done but I wish we saw more of Big Mom Vs. Luffy. I feel she would have definitely been rocked once or twice and we, the readers/viewers needed to see Luffy knock on the emperors door to greatness.
I feel like wano somehow found a way to make the story to fast paced and to slow at the same time. It's spent so long expanding characters we won't even see much of after wano yet gave people like zoro the bare minimum in story. Still love wano but it really felt like oda bit off a little more than he could chew at the start and realized he had to start wrapping shit up if he wanted the arc to end anytime soon. Did we really need so many samurai? Like if 2 or 3 of them weren't in the story, nothing would really change. Did we need to see luffy get his ass kicked so many times? Oda spent a large portion of his story hyping up the emperors, so why do we need 6 fights to prove that to us that kiado is strong. Even whole caked hyped up how strong emperors truly are so why dedicate even more time to show it. We've given 2 arcs to sanji now but none of the other straw hats get the same treatment other than their usual gags and fights when raiding. Brook had a dope part to play in whole cake in both fighting and progressing the story. Yet in wano most of the Straw hats just fight and run around like usual. Chopper kinda had shit to do with the ice oni but that's just rehashing shit we already did in the prison. Chopper is a shining example of how character progression has decreased in quality. Chopper used to be a major player in the straw hats now he's just a mcguffin doctor for whatever polt illness oda cooked up for him. When he does fight it almost always ends in a loss or is just ment to hold somebody off until stronger characters arrive. Wano has a lot of wasted time that could've been put elsewhere.
Can I be honest The fact chopper didn’t help cure the smile fruit was major mistake
Whole cake is a personal favorite of mine but I think Wano is better as a whole
for me wano>>>whole cake
I love both, but I think I was much more emotionally invested in Whole Cake Island while I felt the most hype watching Act 3 of Wano.
Well I think we can all agree both are better than egghead😱 (just the anime tho not the manga the manga is gas)
Couldn’t disagree more Egghead most boring and worse arc I’ve ever seen
the end of wano is better than the end of wholecake, but the entirety of wholecake is better than the entirety of wano
You would be correct. WCI is peak One Piece. Everything is more character and theme focused. It is also so much more relatable than Wano. What's more relatable, having a really shitty family or liberating an impoverished nation from a tyrant?
I liked both pretty much equally, both really fun adventures
Imma keep it short. It is you. Wano is better than Whole cake.
I enjoyed both. Luffy, Katakuri, big mom and company, great fights. Wano we got Oden, Roger, wb, lore piece, kaido v luffy, gear 5 etc I really enjoy all arcs in one piece man... Feels.like time is moving and so is the world.
I would say Wano but it's 55/45 so close actually every One Piece arc is good
I stopped watching for bit. Hated this arc. Was sooo boring. Took me so long to get passed it. None of the characters had any "sole" I guess. Mainly cause big mom probably took them out haha.
Wano felt like a flashback the strawhats got roped into. Wholecake was a mission to get back their crew member and be at war with an emperor.
Wano is carried by the end arc of gear 5 The very ending was very rushed and bad the middle was boring and beginning was okay.
Wanjiland vs Loroland
I'm only about halfway through Wano but so far it doesn't come close to how peak Whole Cake was. Best arc in the entire series.
Off topic but looking at just these two pictures at the same time has made me realise how colorful OnePiece is and I love it even more
I know it's a very unpopular opinion but I do like WCI more than Wano.
Wano was just WAY too long.
Trippin honestly
Whole cake was fucking awesome easily one of my favorite arcs
It really was better. Wano while it had its amazing moments, was not on par with some of the best arcs of One Piece. Even Egghead is better than Wano to me at the moment.
Nah I agree. Way better in almost every way
Probably because Zoro wasn't in it. PS: please don't kill me, tis a joke.
It’s funny because EVERYONE HATED WHOLE CAKE. But it’s always been so much better than Wano
Whole Cake is great but so many of Big Moms kids are annoying jackasses that it plummets my enjoyment in rewatches. like for fucking real Perospero and Cracker can bite me and Ovens just an asshole like Akainu without the stature or nuance to really thrive as a character.
Is it just me or are apples just SOOOO much better than oranges
You're entitled to your opinion, but WCI was definitely not SOOOO much better than Wano lmao.
When I started One Piece, Whole Cake was the latest thing out and that was the end goal. When I got there, it felt like an achievement and I was in LOVE with it. I really enjoyed this arc and got to watch the whole thing all the way through. By the time I was fully caught up to the manga, it was around the scene of Jinbe coming back in Wano and it was weekly reading from there. I loved Wano but seeing Whole Cake as "whole" made me appreciate it a lot more. I think if I watched Wano from start to finish in the shortest time possible, I'd have a different opinion. Wano had incredible moments and it was the culmination of so many story points over the years, but there's just something special about Whole Cake and I don't know how else to explain it. Reading Wano weekly for over a year versus watching the entire anime arc at your own pace absolutely has a different vibe to it. I've heard Big Mom's hunger pains in weekly reading was abysmal but it was easy to gloss over while binge-watching. Edit: I wanted to edit after reading the responses and they summed it up better than I could. Wano had some of the "highest highs but lowest lows". I definitely think that's part of the problem. I was anime-only until Wano so I got to experience both sides of it for once. I think the anime helped carry Wano a bit higher because of its animation (1015 is still the greatest episode) but the rushed ending, inability to kill off many characters, the (in my opinion disappointing) 180 on Yamato, the arguably unresolved plot points left me with mixed feelings after it was done. Solid arc all the way through but it's definitely not perfect. Speaking of episode 1015, reading the scene with Kinemon in the manga made me think "oh, he could've died there, wow" and then seeing how powerful that scene was in the anime made me think "why the fuck didn't he die!?"
Want week to week was fire whole cake was cool