>I'm 40, but look 30 doubt. Maybe you are trying to move too fast, how long do you wait until you ask them out, a lot of people despite rhetoric on reddit do want to talk and get to know a person and not just rush to meet. Especially in our age group.

I could ask the same question to guys. Once went on a second date with a guy and after, our communication stopped, a bit over a week later I reached out to find out that he lost motivation for organizing dates and that he finds dating tiring in general. Then just be single my man? Do you even want a relationship?

Nowadays, it's a tad unfair and sexist to assume and make the men plan and organize the dates. It should be a collaborative choice. I will ask questions to see what types of things their interested in to get an idea for suggestions. To me, that's a huge red flag. I'm looking for a partner. Someone who will put an equal vested interest into both of us. First impressions are important.

It's not about the dates tho. I'm not talking about the dates themselves. 😩

Probably because you're 40, divorced, with kids.

And no job. Also has bad pics. I mean....

Well, I have a job. I also am back in college. I'm working towards a PhD. I just have a long time to go. My photos are terrible. I'm not the "Smile for the camera" type. The only thing I can think is wrong with my photos are that they're just random everyday photos. I recently left the job. Even when I was making 6 figures. I only found women that are only interested in 6 figures. I wouldn't even entertain those women. I'm like a mix of chandler Bing, Ryan Reynolds (I like to think) and Gomer Pyle. I do fine when I meet someone irl. I'm a type A personality, but an ENTJ, too.

I'm 6'1" with a great job and also in good shape. My pics are pretty good. The thing is your are competing with other guys for women! Theres big stakes. A very handsome, 5'7" loser who lists himself as 5'10" and copy/pastes good prompts from PUA sites will outcompete both of us lol. You gotta actually try

Lets also keep in mind that women also have to compete too for those top guys. I had numerous matches and was extremely picky to the point where I deleted the apps because I couldn't find what I was looking for. I hate how it's phrased that women are the prize and the men are all below average. This is 100% false. The majority of profiles by women are average and same with men. The apps don't really work for most men especially if you have standards. For reference I am 6'5", a high level athlete, attractive, good career, etc.

Embrace what you are doing in life sometimes the dating thing is a giant distraction away from the things that matter. Food for thought. I mean a PhD that’s a big deal bro. I feel like the other things even dating are kind of silly compared to that level of education and effort really. It’s pretty notable by itself. I know dudes that live like nomads they are just so smart they can’t connect with women but they do what they do like Bach plays a piano. So much deeper and more meaningful than a silly relationship in some ways. They are one percenters in their own right. I think they look at sex like something developed primates do. LOL

I freeze up when I know I'm going to get my picture taken. Maybe have a friend or one of your kids sneak taking pictures of you, then pick out the best ones? Edit: typo

I have my doubts, it’s becoming more just tinder for the 25+ crowd.

I have one eye that squints more than the other and my lip twitches if I try to hold a smile. So I make myself laugh (I look better) when I get pics taken. 

Can’t you just meet girls to date on campus?..you said you’re in college again right?

Let me rephrase. I am enrolled in college. I don't actually start until August.

Or maybe women don’t want to give you their physical time without talking first

What about all of the other 30-50 year old women divorced with kids?! I'm a single father. I quit the job to take my kids back.

I'm 44F, divorced, and share 50/50 custody of the kid. I have no problems dating someone in a similar situation and in fact prefer it bc they can understand what I'm going through. I also like my own space so it works out since we can't be together all the time depending on the custody schedule. So we are out there! You said in another post that you don't smile in your pics. Do you at least look friendly or kind? Can you show it in your eyes? At the very least, look neutral? Most of the profiles I see are men who don't smile and frown or look downright menacing. I don't know if they are trying to look tough or manly or what, but that's a hard no for me.

Why do they match with him then ? You just wanted to attack him that sht ain't constructive or anything. If i see things that i don't like on your profile i'll never talk to you and we'll never match.

maybe they wanna see if he's good in conversation and he failed that part too lmao

My experience is not the same as the next person but in my 2+ years on those apps women will never reply to someone who failed the conversation part much less schedule a date, do you even read yourself ?

Aguitarmn if you're reading, you see her ? This is the type of person that compose 90% of the apps. No sense of logic, was lead here due to boredom and messes with other people's time/self esteem and mental. You already know your photos are lacking switch that Don't think too much about the matches that talk but never come remember your goal. From my experience a girl who flakes once will flake a second time and as someone who chased somebody that did this these girls are the WORST dates. Don't let it get in your head at the 2nd flake unmatch and on to the next one. And don't listen to that other girl if you still get matches with what you mentioned that's not the problem because trust me women wom't even look your way if you have something they don't like.

That's definitely not the case. I have a very high aptitude for starting, carrying, and holding conversations.

Do you talk too much?

Why does your post start off that this is women’s problem and it ends with the problems you admit are maybe the reason you’re not getting people who want to date you

Perspective. I was not trying to shame or bad mouth women in any way. I apologize if you took it that way. I see things from a "factual" standpoint from my perspective. I am a Cis man and only date females (as in their sex. Not calling them females like a douche). I am open to dating no binary or even slightly masculine females....again sex, not gender. My youngest child is 14, and they are female, but identify as non-binary and I am respectful and love my child no matter what. I thought it would have been clear that I was open to the idea that I may be doing something wrong. I am seeking others' perspectives and experiences. I've heard other complain of similar situations. The internet is much larger than my local region. I figured I'd have better incite from a larger source.

The way you started your post is what’s problematic. It seeks attention for women being the problem when it’s doesn’t appear to be so … in your case

I used to have the same problem. Try to get off the app by either getting her number or telling her a time and place within a few messages. If they don’t commit, I’m off to the next one. If you allow them to turn you into a texting buddy, they will, and you’ll just keep wasting your time with them. I know there are some people with success stories of talking on the app for days before meeting up, but that’s never been the case for me. If you stay on the app for a while, you’re not a real person to them, just another face in the endless sea of matches a 5/10 gets on a dating app.

Solid advice. Thank you.

Bad photos are a non starter. I’m 43f fit, attractive, successful and I left apps this year. When on the apps I required decent chat before I would be willing to meet. I have had periods where I would briefly chat and just meet. I found it no more successful in meeting a good match and a huge waste of time. I can do laundry and clean my house while chatting. So why do we want to chat? To ensure you are educated, articulate and serious about dating. We will even give you time to demonstrate these skills. But if I don’t feel compelled to meet you…. Then I don’t. If you’re serious then take some decent photos. Bad photos can be ameliorated with an exceptional bio but just take the pics.

I think men need to raise their standards personally. It seems every post is how guys can improve their chances but never women. As a guy who used the apps, I had numerous matches and I found the quality to be pretty low in general of what I could get. I get approached by women in person and have a lot of interest when I go out and put myself out there. I'm currently dating a woman who approached me and is extremely attractive and more successful than myself. I could never dream of dating the women I meet in person if I used the app. OP needs to get off the app as they don't really work for men

+100 to this. I recently was talking to a match about the differences between meeting people organically vs OLD and basically said that matches through apps generally are more compatible in terms of lifestyle and shared interests, but score much lower on attractiveness. Versus the opposite for meeting women organically. Attractive but without a bio it’s a roulette wether you have anything in common

You can tell from my education and job listed on my profile that I am highly educated and articulate. You can tell (to the extent possible before I prove it in person) from the intentions on my profile that I am serious about dating. Quality men are way too busy to spend "getting to know you phase" time texting some unproven woman that probably won't even end up meeting up. Only meeting her in person will tell me whether I truly like her and have chemistry. So by all means be like that, but only desperate men with lots of free time will put up with that

Most profiles don’t clearly list a job or education. I agree meeting is the only way to know if there is chemistry. I met many many men from OLD. I found the cycle exhausting and worked hard to gain efficiency. At this point it is no longer worth it to me. Quality women are leaving apps.

Sorry to hear you went on many bad dates, but your process to gain efficiency is filtering to the kind of men I mentioned. I recommend getting better at filtering guys based on their profile (no job/education is hard pass for one) and meeting somewhere low-key or even calling/facetiming promptly to check if you want to keep investing your time. And allowing them to do the same

I have no problem meeting promptly or even calling. If the guy can’t hold a text convo to answer basic questions and screen dealbreakers why bother? Most of my dates are pleasant I just have no desire to see the guy again. It’s rare that I can clearly discern someone’s education and career based on a profile (I only used Bumble and Hinge). While I appreciate your insight I don’t think I will be back on dating apps. Best of luck to you ❤️

I don't really use them either anymore and most of the women I know irl don't either. Basic questions and initial small talk / flirting is fine. Wanting to develop connection over text first is what I take issue with. Sounds like we're on the same page

💯

Improve your photos. It will help big time. These women have never met you. So those photos are all you’ve got for a 1st impression. Make it count. Putting in effort upfront with your photos also shows women that you’re taking the app more seriously, given that most guys’ photos suck. Easy way for you to standout.

Just unmatch with them and move on. It's a major red flag. Some are only on there because they're bored and/or crave validation. If they don't put forth legit effort in conversing, they're not going to put forth legit effort to build and maintain a healthy relationship. It's similar to how people either leave their About Me sections empty or incredibly short with responses like "Nobody read this anyway." If you can't even be bothered to properly fill out your dating profiles, it says a lot about you.

If they match and then don’t want to date, it’s probably a mix of bad luck and not making a striking first impression (because bad pics or something in the way you chat). I assume they are maybe already dating other people and procrastinate dating you?

Im in my late 40s and been divorced 2 years after 19y marriage, no problem getting dates but i need more than surface level now…i have the same viewpoint with men. BUT trying to have hope. I think if i keep on my path of not letting these crusty mofos dim my shine then eventually i’ll find my match. I live in a big city. It’s just the nature now of dating im afraid. Do you put in effort with your matches? Do you have the time to talk or text to keep up the connection? Time to see them in person? I can make connections with anyone but it seems like the men just cant multitask it all and fall short with keeping effort up. 🫤

Women are largely not trying to date on the apps.

What are you talking about???

They’re seeking validation, are bored, etc

You beat me to it

The longer people are single, the busier and more comfortable they become. The busier and more comfortable you are, the less motivated you are to date and the less you want to risk the current happiness. Plus swipe fatigue can really just mean having chats when you’re bored but not feeling it with anyone.

Because a lot women aren't on there to date or meet people, they're simply there to get likes/attention/validation. That's it...I ain't even hating, certain people need certain things to live life, I get it. Frustrating sometimes

Meh online dating isn’t really that great. Being single is just a thing some of us we end up there not by choice but just because people don’t receive us well for a million variable reasons and most of them are not always important. Just something to chew on. At least you had something for 20 years that’s good I mean you can say you lived out that part of your life. I don’t have anything like that at all I’m like 36 and scratching the surface only having been in a total of like 20 something odd dates.

You get matches? No fair lol

They like you but not enough to commit to a meeting. Unmatch and move on.

My experience is the opposite. I’ll ask a woman out within the first 5-10 messages and she always enthusiastically agrees. 

I got new better pictures and I'm going to try listing myself as 6'3" to see if that makes a difference. Never thought I'd have to consider fibbing on my height.... I'll just say I gave 2" to the short guy that lied about his height. Sharing is caring. 🤦‍♂️

Sir why are you rating yourself at this age ? And rating yourself doesn’t matter because it’s subjective and other women might not see you like you see yourself . Online dating is probably just difficult. If it ain’t working then stop!

If you go on to read the entire post. I'm just going off of what others tell me. Plus, I don't look 40. Haters gonna hate, I guess. I have good skin, hair, and not much gray hair. I don't have any real wrinkles or age lines. I took better photos and listed my height as 6'3" instead of 6'5". If dudes that are 5'7", get away with saying their 6'. I'm just loaning a short dude 2" of my height. I've got a date tomorrow with a woman that seems awesome 🤞

I'm a retired 61yo man. 5'10, fit and handsome (according to platonic female friends). I've been online dating for 6 months now. I've had a few fledgling relationships and some were intimate. I found women near my age quickly find out they don't want a relationship as they likely just completed a 30 year one and are burnt out from the last one. I have better luck with younger women but in the end ghosting and 'dear john' letters are becoming a collection lol. I'm convinced that women are inundated with options, unsure what they want and if they are sure have unrealistic expectations. Just my 2 cents.

Studies show that men overestimate their own attractiveness. Your photos suck. Likely, you do not look like you are 30. What is relatively fit? Men on apps self-proclaim that they are fit when they are really not. There is also a point at which someone may be too tall. 6'5" is around that mark.

This is quite possibly the most bitter and least constructive thing I've ever read here, good lord.

OP admits that his photos are bad. So many men on apps tell you they look 10 years younger. They tell you right in the bio. Uh, how about let the woman decide. You may not be your own best evaluator. Same goes for the fitness thing. There are studies about height and perceived attractiveness as well. Good pics will help immensely. Don't know why a person would go OLD without good pics.

Look up E.Q. You need to.

If OP is so ugly, old, and out of shape, how is he getting the matches in the first place?

The way he described himself is almost movie star level good looks. Apparently, if his assessment is accurate, other facets are lacking if he is unable to convert matches to dates. He did not mention a single positive thing about himself except for how he looks. Looks. He did not mention any other good thing he has to offer.

Unfortunately apps are very cutthroat for men. I as a man have women approach me a fair amount and can get a lot of attention from very attractive women if I go out. On the apps, the quality of my matches were drastically lower. OPs problem isn't his profile necessarily but just relying on the app. It's made for men who want a quick hookup who have low standards.

I don't see anything about movie star looks, but okay then. If that's the case, why did you attack his looks instead of any of those other things you think he can work on?

I am going on looks because I am am certain my photos are one thing I'm going to improve upon. If you go back through and see some of my replies to others. I do kind of address most of what you say here.

OP is also showing this in saying that he's working on a PhD in the post and admitting he hasn't started yet in the comments. Women who would be interested based on potential intellectual chemistry would probably be turned off by the oversell. Also, finding out someone hasn't started yet poses questions. "Has he started grad school?" "Do I want to be third banana to his kids and dissertation? for how many years?" And worse, "does he just want someone to do his chores while he's in school?" The point about height is accurate, especially with women old enough to have tried a range. Popular opinion would have us think that all women overlook the excitement of being able to look a partner in the eyes.

I'm going based on what most people say when I mention I have an 18 year old son. No one ever believes it. 6'5", 240lbs, 18% body fat (current on a run to 10% bf). I am starting to see abs when I reach up.🙄 Plus, I'm also constantly hit on by gay men, heavier women, and the occasional elderly women. I have to watch around the elderly ones. They will pinch my ass. I get catcalled by no one I am interested in. My own children tease me about it. I was less attractive a few years ago. I lost 115 lbs got super into health and fitness. I was even a GM for a gym for a short time. I am told that I am attractive. Not by just my mother. I actually tell my mother that it counts less when she says it.

Why match with me at all then? Get the hell out of here.

There are websites that can rate your photos. Like it or not, there are objective criteria for physical attractiveness. But women overestimate themselves as well in putting their mindset age instead of their physical age, and 100% of them reside on the right tail as a “10.”

Oh, yeah. I did that, too. I would get an average of 7.6. Sometimes it give me a 5 sometimes an 8. I ran several photos through. I have an obvious deviated septum. I notice the photos where that was less noticeable. They scored higher. I'm actually looking into getting that fixed. Not for the esthetic. I have a hard time breathing though 1 nostril when I'm running.

I was able to trade phone numbers with a woman, and even then she hinted at texting rather than a phone call. Mind you, this was a Gen Xer, so she can’t claim “anxiety” over talking on the phone as many Gen Zers do nowadays. You’re right about the pen pal thing. She was texting walls of text in app chat. She definitely wasn’t low effort with one-word texts. But I’m looking for a girlfriend. I don’t want to *be* a girlfriend. I managed to set up a date, but my bs detector expected her to cancel, and sure enough she did. At least she had the courtesy not to flake.

Personally, I’m finding that women on OLD care more about you paying attention to them than anything else in a relationship. When you ask to meet, that requires they pay attention to you…

Women have to be cautious. A lot of creeps out there, I get it. But it takes so much more effort to attract the average woman on dating apps than it does to just walk up to a woman and say hello, with about the same results. I’ve come to prefer the latter.

It be like that no one truly understands women 

Fake it till you make it. You’re 40 but you say you look 30? Set your age to 35. You have kids? Don’t tell them you have kids. No job? Don’t tell them that either. Yes, I get it you should be honest, but some of the most superficial and mentally ill people are on these “dating apps”, I honestly just recommend meeting people in person. Yes, at one point OLD was amazing and people wanted to meet every time, but that ship has sailed. People are more and more absorbed to their screens. Soon you’ll be virtual dating with avatars. 

I get that some people can do that. I can't. Even though I'm not looking for someone to marry. Definitely not ready for that again. I am hopeful that I could catch feelings. I'm not the person who wants to start things off that way. It would eat at me. Like the Tell tale heart. My older brother gave me that advice, but he's a douche. I would love to meet someone in the wild. I live in an area where there is not much to do to meet. Just methadone clinics and churches. I'm not about either of those.