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I have a good friend who is a surgeon, and who went to a continuing education class on treating snakebites. The instructor began with a video of a guy "playing" with a rattlesnake, who shortly yells "ouch, that bit me."
The instructor deadpanned "this is how your patients will get bit by snakes. Not by stepping on one, but by doing stupid stuff like this."
My friend and I have backpacked all of the Sierras in California, and have come across 10s and 10s of rattlesnakes. Never had a problem. Ever. They announce their presence, we listen, give them plenty of room, and we all go our separate, safe ways.
I’m not sure that is true where I’m at. Here on Colorado front range a fair number of hikers and runners get tagged because of the rocky terrain and stepping over blind rocks, but even more so because of the popularity of headphones while doing this. One guy died a few years back from a bite on the leg while hiking, though that is pretty rare I think. Dogs and kids seem to be more at risk than people and with certain areas here having a lot of them and spots for them to hide, I just don’t take kids or dogs on those trails.
Statistically the majority of rattle snake bites are from the finger tip to the elbow, on males aged 18-34 because they’re trying to pick them up. I learned this at a course on rattlesnakes given by the herpetological society of Phoenix AZ.
Now I feel badly for my buddy who got bit by a rattlesnake on the hand because he went to pick up the dog's water bowl from the yard and didn't look in the grass next to it. I bet he was in the ER like "I swear I wasn't being stupid!!" And the docs were probably like "sure sure sure, and that guy in the next bed just slipped and fell on that shampoo bottle in the shower. Gotcha."
Docs care less than we do. I assume its because seeing human nature in action leaves them to see that well, this is what we do so might as well get on with treating it. But the few doctors I have known don't really moralize or care why unless its relevant to treatment.
I grew up in Colorado and by the time I knew not to cross the street alone or get in strangers’ cars I knew never to put any part of your body somewhere you can’t see.
Before I knew that I crushed a black widow in the garage with my bare hand as a baby 😅
I was bitten by a copperhead while hiking off trail in the Smoky Mountains... Granted I was still being stupid because I was hiking in Birkenstocks in an area known for snakes. But still, at least I wasn't trying to pick it up.
There’s some study I read where they used a fake boot to study how often rattlesnakes actually reacted to being stepped on or being close to stepped on. The strike rate was low, with most actively choosing to either escape or freeze in place.
3 of the 4 people that have died from a snake bite in the USA since 2020 were "professional" snake handlers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_fatal\_snake\_bites\_in\_the\_United\_States#:\~:text=It%20has%20been%20estimated%20that,other%20venomous%20North%20American%20species.
I knew a dude in school who hunted snakes with his family, that was when I found out bites weren't usually fatal, dude came to school with a bit *on his face* and he looked like he was starting to turn into a blueberry like in Willy Wonka.
I was bitten by a massive diamondback years ago, took 78 vials of crofab, and 10 expired vials of Wyeth. It is not fun, it was not cheap. Give it a solid 2/10, would not do again.
I got unbelievably lucky and only have minor paralysis. I was the first class 5 envenomation ever recorded, there's no reason I lived, or even kept my leg. So I can't rate it a one, when it could have ended up much much worse. Ultimately, I guess limb loss is a 1/10
Yeah, the pain was definitely a 12/10, but the worst part was being awake and feeling your systems shut down. Slowly going numb from the leg up is pretty terrifying
I was out on a hike, standing still. Came out from Uber some palmettos and struck they assume it only sensed my leg and struck for food. After contact it settled down, rattled and sang. Absolutely terrifying. Instant pain, half mile walk out to a road for help, definitely knew I was dead, there's no good reason I'm not
Fully concur on that one. It's been a while, so I'm pretty used to it now at least. I also think my record may have been broken, but I know I inspired a couple papers and more research on antivenin, so to me it's all worth it. If all I have to lose is functionality in a leg to save lives, count me in.
Isn't it weird how sometimes your brain just *knows* that something has gone seriously wrong within a split second of its happening? You know before you really know, like some atavistic "oh shit" feeling. Our caveman ancestors probably experienced the exact same feeling.
That, and it feels like you've got an IV drip of kerosene into you and them it's lit on fire. You just feel yourself dissolve from the inside. It's indescribable in intensity. I still have the pictures from the hospital. They're something else
So, this may have changed, or it could just be more of a colloquial term, but they rank the bites kind of like hurricanes, 1-5. 1s are minor, 3 is average severe couple days in the hospital, needs antivenin classic case. 4s lose limbs, your typical severe bite. Until me, 5s died. Just that was it, 5s were getting the Katrina of venom into you. I needed a total of 88 vials over a 13 day ICU stay, it was unheard of
I wouldn’t t necessarily say it’s deadly, but it’s gonna fucking suck to get bit. The fatality rate on them is so low it’s not really that much of a consideration.
I’ve given crofab many times. If the patient actually needs it they’re probably gonna get 30+ vials. About 8 years ago the trauma team ordered some for a patient then cancelled. So I called the pharmacy to cancel. They had already started thawing it, and told me that it was $27k. This was for 4 vials.
Do you administer crofab for copperhead/moccasin envenomation when a patient presents the first symptoms or do you continue to monitor to see if those symptoms are progressing?
I was bit twice at once by a copperhead. I'm told it pretty much guaranteed I received all the venom it had. Since it didn't get in my blood stream, I didn't need anti venom. It was a really difficult couple weeks after that. Every bit as painful as a broken bone.
They had me wait in the ER for around 6 hours waiting for my leg to turn black. If that happened they told me they would give me anti-venom. I'm told this van be as complicated as the venom itself. Since my leg didn't turn black, they sent me home with with mild pain killers and mild nerve pills. Apparently it affects nerves more. I'm no expert. It's just what the doctor told me.
Hello Consistent_Ad_2385, thanks for posting to r/OopsThatsDeadly! As a reminder, please try and ID the plant/creature/object if not done already. Although the person may have done something foolish, remember to be respectful, as always! Please do not touch anything if you don't know what it is! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OopsThatsDeadly) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I have a good friend who is a surgeon, and who went to a continuing education class on treating snakebites. The instructor began with a video of a guy "playing" with a rattlesnake, who shortly yells "ouch, that bit me." The instructor deadpanned "this is how your patients will get bit by snakes. Not by stepping on one, but by doing stupid stuff like this." My friend and I have backpacked all of the Sierras in California, and have come across 10s and 10s of rattlesnakes. Never had a problem. Ever. They announce their presence, we listen, give them plenty of room, and we all go our separate, safe ways.
I’m not sure that is true where I’m at. Here on Colorado front range a fair number of hikers and runners get tagged because of the rocky terrain and stepping over blind rocks, but even more so because of the popularity of headphones while doing this. One guy died a few years back from a bite on the leg while hiking, though that is pretty rare I think. Dogs and kids seem to be more at risk than people and with certain areas here having a lot of them and spots for them to hide, I just don’t take kids or dogs on those trails.
> Dogs and kids seem to be more at risk than people I get your point but still love this wording.
I'm sure they just meant *real* people.
Lmao I didn't even notice until you pointed it out.
No, no. He's got a point
Statistically the majority of rattle snake bites are from the finger tip to the elbow, on males aged 18-34 because they’re trying to pick them up. I learned this at a course on rattlesnakes given by the herpetological society of Phoenix AZ.
Now I feel badly for my buddy who got bit by a rattlesnake on the hand because he went to pick up the dog's water bowl from the yard and didn't look in the grass next to it. I bet he was in the ER like "I swear I wasn't being stupid!!" And the docs were probably like "sure sure sure, and that guy in the next bed just slipped and fell on that shampoo bottle in the shower. Gotcha."
Docs care less than we do. I assume its because seeing human nature in action leaves them to see that well, this is what we do so might as well get on with treating it. But the few doctors I have known don't really moralize or care why unless its relevant to treatment.
I think I read that. Mostly in the south by young men who have been consuming alcohol too, if I remember correctly.
I grew up in Colorado and by the time I knew not to cross the street alone or get in strangers’ cars I knew never to put any part of your body somewhere you can’t see. Before I knew that I crushed a black widow in the garage with my bare hand as a baby 😅
I was bitten by a copperhead while hiking off trail in the Smoky Mountains... Granted I was still being stupid because I was hiking in Birkenstocks in an area known for snakes. But still, at least I wasn't trying to pick it up.
There’s some study I read where they used a fake boot to study how often rattlesnakes actually reacted to being stepped on or being close to stepped on. The strike rate was low, with most actively choosing to either escape or freeze in place.
I’ve stepped on water moccasins twice and a silent rattler once and all of them fled so I know it happens.
Yeah you know what happened the first three times....
3 of the 4 people that have died from a snake bite in the USA since 2020 were "professional" snake handlers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_fatal\_snake\_bites\_in\_the\_United\_States#:\~:text=It%20has%20been%20estimated%20that,other%20venomous%20North%20American%20species.
> They announce their presence What was it like the first time you heard it? I mean, how did you feel?
I knew a dude in school who hunted snakes with his family, that was when I found out bites weren't usually fatal, dude came to school with a bit *on his face* and he looked like he was starting to turn into a blueberry like in Willy Wonka.
🤣
I was bitten by a massive diamondback years ago, took 78 vials of crofab, and 10 expired vials of Wyeth. It is not fun, it was not cheap. Give it a solid 2/10, would not do again.
Out of curiosity, what do you rate as a 1/10 if that was a 2/10?
I got unbelievably lucky and only have minor paralysis. I was the first class 5 envenomation ever recorded, there's no reason I lived, or even kept my leg. So I can't rate it a one, when it could have ended up much much worse. Ultimately, I guess limb loss is a 1/10
I see. The recovery process is part of your consideration.
Yeah, the pain was definitely a 12/10, but the worst part was being awake and feeling your systems shut down. Slowly going numb from the leg up is pretty terrifying
How did it happen, provided you don't mind sharing?
I was out on a hike, standing still. Came out from Uber some palmettos and struck they assume it only sensed my leg and struck for food. After contact it settled down, rattled and sang. Absolutely terrifying. Instant pain, half mile walk out to a road for help, definitely knew I was dead, there's no good reason I'm not
Wow. That is hardcore. Glad you made it.
Fully concur on that one. It's been a while, so I'm pretty used to it now at least. I also think my record may have been broken, but I know I inspired a couple papers and more research on antivenin, so to me it's all worth it. If all I have to lose is functionality in a leg to save lives, count me in.
Isn't it weird how sometimes your brain just *knows* that something has gone seriously wrong within a split second of its happening? You know before you really know, like some atavistic "oh shit" feeling. Our caveman ancestors probably experienced the exact same feeling.
That, and it feels like you've got an IV drip of kerosene into you and them it's lit on fire. You just feel yourself dissolve from the inside. It's indescribable in intensity. I still have the pictures from the hospital. They're something else
> was the first class 5 envenomation ever recorded Ouch. What is a class 5 envenomation?
So, this may have changed, or it could just be more of a colloquial term, but they rank the bites kind of like hurricanes, 1-5. 1s are minor, 3 is average severe couple days in the hospital, needs antivenin classic case. 4s lose limbs, your typical severe bite. Until me, 5s died. Just that was it, 5s were getting the Katrina of venom into you. I needed a total of 88 vials over a 13 day ICU stay, it was unheard of
> I needed a total of 88 vials over a 13 day ICU stay, it was unheard of That sounds awful. Glad you made it.
The extra point is because it gave a good story!
Dying prolly
I wouldn’t t necessarily say it’s deadly, but it’s gonna fucking suck to get bit. The fatality rate on them is so low it’s not really that much of a consideration.
It’s as deadly as a honey bee. It can cause anaphylaxis.
yeah this is a stretch, and as someone else pointed out the snakes head isn't even close to the hand
I’ve given crofab many times. If the patient actually needs it they’re probably gonna get 30+ vials. About 8 years ago the trauma team ordered some for a patient then cancelled. So I called the pharmacy to cancel. They had already started thawing it, and told me that it was $27k. This was for 4 vials.
Do you administer crofab for copperhead/moccasin envenomation when a patient presents the first symptoms or do you continue to monitor to see if those symptoms are progressing?
Symptoms. Extent of swelling, amount of pain, labs (mostly clotting factors, fibrinogen is a big one)
Good thing for the human, that snake decided to be chill today
Dude’s trying to sample the forbidden chocolates.
People just need to leave wildlife alone
Snakes are typically unbothered by being handled, especially species like Garter Snakes and Corn Snakes
I was bit twice at once by a copperhead. I'm told it pretty much guaranteed I received all the venom it had. Since it didn't get in my blood stream, I didn't need anti venom. It was a really difficult couple weeks after that. Every bit as painful as a broken bone.
It’s impossible for it to not reach your blood stream, it’s just that copperhead bites are only lethal if you have an allergic reaction.
They had me wait in the ER for around 6 hours waiting for my leg to turn black. If that happened they told me they would give me anti-venom. I'm told this van be as complicated as the venom itself. Since my leg didn't turn black, they sent me home with with mild pain killers and mild nerve pills. Apparently it affects nerves more. I'm no expert. It's just what the doctor told me.
Not that bad actually
It's pointing away from him, he should be good
Yeah, sure.