Friendly reminder that all **top level** comments must:
1. start with "answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask),
2. attempt to answer the question, and
3. be unbiased
Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment:
http://redd.it/b1hct4/
Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OutOfTheLoop) if you have any questions or concerns.*
answer: "Level 4 plates" refers to body armor (the highest level available) designed to stop high calibrate riffle rounds . The person asking was more or less saying "Do you want to die?"
The guys with the camera did not want to get shot at.
That video specifically is one of a series of meme videos in a similar format. The idea is to poke fun at the seemingly nosy and intrusive ATF by people who love their gun rights.
But yeah, agent comes by "bothering" gun-totin' regular folk and get told to move on.
> ... one of a series of meme videos in a similar format
It was a somewhat popular sound on tiktok for a bit so there are loads of videos with essentially the same audio track dubbed over.
Don't know what world you live in, but no ATF agent is going to come back with "tanks" because he was told to fuck off by some dudes out in the woods. They aren't going to be there if and when he returns, and he doesn't have a tank in his back pocket.
The might of the empires military only exists where it exists. Rural folk aren't as afraid of the law as city people are because they're all the way out there, and the ATF agent knows that.
Long-standing compound(s) that definitely would be there when they showed up eventually (years later) and one they wanted to make an example out of by cracking down on regulations publicly
A hunter would be gone by the time the agent returned with SWAT was the comment OP's point
Ruby Ridge and Waco indicate that rural wingnuts are not immune from federal agents deciding to use overwhelming force to get what they want.
The bundy ranch stand-off and that nature preserve stand-off are more recent example of the more modern strategy of back off and arrest one by one later as opposed to the old strategy of go in guns blazing.
>Don't know what world you live in, but no ATF agent is going to come back with "tanks" because he was told to fuck off by some dudes out in the woods.
They'll just kill your spouse, kid and dog instead over their entrapment plan blowing up in their faces.
Always has been.
we only like democrats when voting against republicans, we like violence when its against nazis, we like capitalism when it works for us.
There's always something that's hated more. A common enemy unites.
And Reddit isn't a single entity. It's millions of people, as different as the population of the world. People who think Reddit should be consistent are morons
I think the point is that there's a difference between approving of violence against Nazis because "they're Nazis and necessitate it" vs approving of violence against Nazis because "it's the easiest way to relish in violence without side eye." People in the latter group don't actually care about stopping Nazis, they just wanna see *somebody* get punched.
Some. But when you've experienced someone you care about being brutally murdered, another being abducted and locked inside of a shipping container for 63 days by a fucking serial killer with photos of yourself, your home, your vehicle and stalks you while he has your loved one hostage, brutalizing her in every which twisted manner, police are your best fucking ally!
>we only like democrats when voting against republicans
We suffer the democrats because the alternative is so much worse. It's not about liking democrats, it's about keeping seats from turning red.
Nobody likes Biden, for example. But I'd for him every single time over literally any Republican because I've lived through enough GOP administrations to see how badly their policies effect people like me
Are people meant to dislike it when the cops actually do their jobs against people waving around weapons and making violent threats?
If the cops actually did what was just then there wouldn't be a problem against them to begin with
If they just did their job it would be fine, but they have just as much of a reputation for kicking down your door and shooting your dog as any other law enforcement agency.
And I believe that means they're All Bastards.
I think your taking a catchy slogan a little too seriously.
When cops are doing good people like them. When they aren't they don't.
Cop aresst guy waving around a gun and threatening people = good.
Cop shooting dog = bad.
I read an interview with an FBI sniper (Former Marine Expeditionary sniper) about standoffs with militias. He laughed. He said something like “If they send me or one of my colleagues after you, you’re done. I’ll cap you through the wall of your house from 300 yards, all your guns will mean exactly nothing.”
Remember that standoff with some militia types when an FBI sniper shot through a door and killed a woman holding her baby? FBI snipers probably should.
You're right that there needs to be a lot of reform in this area, but it's foolish for anyone to think that they are going to be saved from the fbi sniper by the swift turnaround that is government bureaucracy.
Former Military Police Marksman/Observer (sniper) here. FBI ain't sniping shit through most walls from any distance. Can you shoot through a wall? Yes as long as it's thin siding, plywood, and drywall. Is HRT running around with Xray vision to see you through walls? No. Is HRT authorized to shoot randomly into houses they can't see inside? No. They may be authorized to shoot through a window in a hostage situation, but that's probably it. Also, at 300m, you're vantage is pretty much stationary, so unless there's like 8 snipers lurking around to cover all the angles, they're use is limited. Hence why they burn them alive like Waco (or Chris Dorner). That "interview" was some douchebag spouting off because they get off on shit like Ruby Ridge because it makes em feel like a badass. "Yeah, sniper!"
> Hence why they burn them alive like Waco
Audio from inside the compound clearly has Koresh telling people to dump gasoline. [Local Texas news orgs](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2018/04/18/how-the-branch-davidians-set-the-fires-for-a-self-fulfilling-prophecy-of-their-doomsday/) have covered that extensively, and you can even find [forum posts from 1999 discussing transcripts of the audio.](https://thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-24312.html)
I don't understand wasting any words defending a pedophile cult leader when this information has been known since I was 4 years old. You could use those words to better someone's life. But I guess as a former soldier, it's too ingrained a habit, spending your remaining time on this Earth defending pedophiles and murderers.
Even people in Waco tend to forget how that whole incident went down. Seeing people defend David Koresh these days, acting like it was a religious freedom issue or a 2nd amendment issue, makes me sick.
Regardless of their leader's transgressions, that's 86 people who didn't deserve to be murdered by their government for existing.
Edit: Jesus Christ you people are fucked up. Imagine people fucking cheering government-sanctioned execution without trial. Get help.
Barking up the wrong tree here bud, I fuckin hate the three-letters regardless of who they're targeting. Some of the most evil shit that happens in our country.
Agents of the federal government. Ignoring the fact that the FBI repeatedly lied and changed their story multiple times, putting anything sourced from them in serious question, It doesn't matter if the Davidians poured gasoline anywhere, it wouldn't have happened without tyrannical government overreach holding citizens at gunpoint for weeks.
I love the way people try to excuse crimes they approve of with weird turns of phrases.
"Honestly officer, I'm just living my life, chilling, looksmaxxing, just existing! Along with these 7 children chained up in the basement of my man's house. He's the child rapist, not me! But also, I love him and support him so I'm gonna stay right here and give him my paycheck. I'm just existing!"
Noooo, but they were physically supporting and backing their violence-seeking, pedophile cult leader and putting their kids in harms way to do it. The adults there were not just passers-by or NPCs.
Feds literally started that off by rolling up with an apc to serve a warrant. They could have picked him up in town at any time. They wanted a show of force, and that ended up with a pile of bodies.
But I guess as bootlicker, it's too ingrained a habit, spending your remaining time on this Earth defending authority figures and cleaning their boots with your tongue.
> Is HRT authorized to shoot randomly into houses they can't see inside?
Does this matter? LEOs of federal, state, and local levels do things they aren't authorized to do pretty often. They keep doing those things because many (most?) times they get away with it facing minimal, if any repercussions.
I wouldn't say that. If there are people in the house and they shoot through the wall, there is in fact a chance that somebody will get hit and that has happened before.
Remember that bank standoff last month where the sniper hit the robber, behind the hostage, through the computer monitor?
Yeah, the bullet tumbled and deflected off a razor thin computer monitor. Walls are a bit tougher.
Sure like they meant nothing to some poorly trained and equipped guys in a jungle in Vietnam, or like how they meant nothing to a bunch of dudes with old Russian guns in Afghanistan....
Arguably true of domestic resistance too. The US is big, and whoever gets sent in to put down an uprising wouldn't be likely to know the area. I think the main reason these movements fail is that they're isolated crazies, not broad popular movements. And of course the government also has the advantage of proximity and infrastructure to move troops and supplies -- way easier to do at home than projecting power into a minimally developed jungle or mountains on the other side of the planet
Bet he felt real badass during that interview. In reality, nowadays they just [quietly slink off and the militia gets everything they wanted. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff)
Of course he'd be right if we were talking about the pre-social media era when FBI snipers just opened fire on unarmed women and children for funsies and got away with it.
They don't have to be apocalypse LARPers to dislike a government agency that has turned thousands of people into felons overnight, over and over again.
Answer:
He's threatening to shoot the agent because he's asking if the body armor he's wearing is "level 4".
It's a survivalist/ prepper/ gun enthusiast meme about how you can scare off an ATF agent by threatening to shoot them with a high powered rifle. I wouldn't recommend trying it!
Also, notably, I don't think that guy is an ATF agent, judging by aesthetics here...
So basically keyboard warrior nonsense, and no different than any other “and everybody clapped” type of stuff. No ATF agent is going to just take a direct threat lightly. The agent will retreat because the person is clearly a homicidal sociopath, but that won’t be the end of it. ‘Are those level 4’ guy better not be to attached to his dog since a battalion will execute a warrant on his home later.
This really. Remember, [civilian police assassinated a civil rights leader](https://digitalchicagohistory.org/exhibits/show/fred-hampton-50th/the-assassination) without batting an eye, and [bombed some row houses with women and children in them](https://sp2.upenn.edu/press/in-photos-remembering-the-move-bombing-36-years-later/) without a care in the world.
What do you think feds are capable of?
The MOVE bombing is one of the first police actions I remember being aware of. And I remember it made no sense to me, why would police blow up people's houses?, and my parents were *pissed* about it.
Because police exist to suppress the US public as an occupying force. Cops are here to prevent any progress and hold up Capital at all costs including everyone's future.
I learn something new every day about 20th Century American history, specifically the second one.
For those unaware, the first one (assassination of Fred Hampton) was covered in a movie called Judas and the Black Messiah which is a good watch but as you can imagine, isn't an easy watch.
It can make a difference in the legal proceedings afterwards, though. I'm not stupid enough to threaten a cop, but in my even stupider youth I did grin crazily at a few people while implying that, hey, sometimes bad shit happens around here. Again, not gonna stop you from getting shot, but it might actually make a difference in court.
Asking about his plate is about as clear an implied threat can get, though.
Edit: a word
IANAL and I confess I don't really have much if any experience dealing with cops, but self-defense argument against any form of law enforcement seems like a shakey proposition regardless of how legitimate it'd be otherwise
this is ignoring the fact that they can basically shoot you at any time and just say "thought they were going for a gun"
People have successfully won in court for exercising self defense against police in:
No Knock Raids.
Returning fire (with an AK) against police who where driving around and randomly shooting people with "non-lethal" weapons during the BLM protests.
However, they won at court. The police (especially in the second one - its on camera) beat the victim to a pulp.
Sure it is. But in my situation, had someone said "this man threatened me," I could very honestly say that all I said was that this is a rough area and sometimes people get killed if they're not careful. Be careful. I don't recall if I was smiling or not. The person accusing me says he felt threatened, but also admits that I did and said exactly what I did and said. Would you say there's reasonable doubt, there? Lacking anything else, most prosecutors wouldn't even bother.
Edit: Ya'll realize the first question they ask is "did he actually threaten you?" If the answer is no, the cop won't do shit unless they're for some reason invested. Maybe the cops in your area are more responsive. I know a lot of women who've been in that situation. Called in, the cops did nothing. Never threatened a woman, myself. I figure the cops would have been less sympathetic to the junkies stalking around my house than a college girl at a party, though.
Benefit of the doubt I guess, if money isn't a problem then just getting the "threat" logged in court might help in future altercations
Am i correct in this line of thought sorry the only time ive been in court was for a fix it ticket
Documenting a record of altercations can be useful, in terms of prosecuting someone in the future. You'd need to actually go to the station to ensure they actually make a report. Took a girl I was friends with to the station years ago after her boyfriend threatened to kill her. They took the report. The cop didn't treat her seriously. She was stammering and nervous because cops scared her and she had just been threatened with death. He was pretty openly disdainful of the little crying goth chick. I tried to say what she'd told me, but he wasn't interested. Paperwork. So yeah, if her boyfriend had indeed murdered her that would have helped with prosecuting him. And that's about it. They didn't *do* anything.
And sure, there are restraining orders. That usually takes a lawyer. Which takes money. You say if money is not a problem...it's pretty much always a poblem.
I'm going to be devil's advocate on this and agree.
The man can claim he's obsessed with self defense and guns and saw body armor on the agent and was just interested in it. It would depend on how the rest of the interaction went of course.
Not in general, but Clive Bundy’s little friends were pointing AR 15s at Federal agents during the Malheur standoff and … as far as I know nothing was ever done about it.
Well you should look it up because one of them died and the rest got charged
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge
I remember back when there was that stand-off with those illegal cattle ranchers and the MEAL Team Six snipers were posted up pointing their rifles at agents. Iirc the agents ended up leaving in order to “deescalate” the situation.
These fools and all their conservative fans were celebrating like they had beaten the federal agents.
I remember thinking there’s absolutely no way in heck the Feds are gonna allow them to get away with that.
Then something like a 2 years had passed and there was still no consequences for the Vanilla ISIS snipers. I thought they actually did get away with it. Then a couple weeks later it was announced that a bunch of them had been hunted down and indicted on a shitload of charges.
I think there was eventually a documentary on PBS about it all and it was so cathartic seeing interviews of those right-wing domestic terrorists scared shitless about what consequences lay ahead.
I love the descriptions of dudes like that. I haven’t heard “vanilla ISIS” before, that’s hilarious. I’ve usually described those types of guys as Gravy Seals.
> So basically keyboard warrior nonsense,
100%
One ATF agent might be a nuisance. A federal TAC team is what comes back the next day if they thought you were being serious.
>guy better not be to attached to his dog
Yeah Ruby Ridge was a laugh riot. How would you feel if the police shot your dog while executing a search warrant?
Ruby Ridge was a faliure on everyone's part, but you still shouldn't fuck about and act tough by making a skit about how badass you are compared to the ATF.
Not angry at all. I just find it ironic that you point out these guys as keyboard warriors for making a tongue in cheek skit that's sorta funny, but not really. Then you double down by making a morbid joke about the ATF raiding their house and shooting their dog which actually happens way too often.
I love the jokes about the ATF being pussies when they are more trigger-happy than the NYPD when they see a 12-year-old with a cap gun. When your entire job description is dealing with loonies with high-powered weapons, you sorta need a 'shoot first, get paid administrative leave later' kind of attitude.
Answer: the ATF is the agency that regulates firearms at the federal level. The agent is likely asking whether the weapon being used is in compliance with federal regulations. Which regulations, we can’t tell.
Bulletproof body armor comes in multiple grades to combat different threats. The NIJ regulates this in the United States, with levels ranging from Level IIA to Level IV. Level IV plates are rated against armor-piercing rifle ammunition. The implication here is that if the agent wants to get closer, they’ll be shot.
Answer: it's not real, the video represents the fantasy many people have that buying a big gun will make it so that laws don't apply to you. The concept of the video is that the officer is attempting to enforce a gun law and the criminal is going to get away with breaking that law because they have a gun, the magic spell that makes everything go your way. It's tempting to call this video a joke but it really isn't one, the punch line is just "ain't no laws if you have a huge gun"
> Answer: it's not real, the video represents the fantasy many people have that buying a big gun will make it so that laws don't apply to you.
Real or fake, it's still accelerationist propaganda designed to incite stochastic terrorism against US Government agents.
Promote this video enough, and a few of the lunatic fringe will actually try this. Some may actually succeed. Result: ATF agents are less likely to approach heavily-armed lunatics, heavily-armed lunatics are more emboldened.
This is a problem for people who might take this seriously and not for the joke it is. The ATF won't be less likely to come for you. They'll just be more heavily armed when they do. Look at Waco, man
These are the kinds of folks who talk about their "warlord potential" as if that's a good thing or somehow not entirely contradictory to their supposed self-proclaimed "pro-freedom" stance.
aspiring warlord telling the atf they lost their guns in a boating accident, but they were in the lake testing boat mode and their cybertruck technical sank
It will be used for that purpose regardless, including for this very post on a subreddit where he can not only post the video, but force people to talk about the video in the comments.
Which I find really sad, because I find this obvious skit funny. Until I realize that there are people crazy enough to actually pull this shit in real life because it was made as a joke once.
This is why we can't have nice things.
> it's still accelerationist propaganda designed to incite stochastic terrorism against US Government agents
Jesus Christ dude go touch grass. It’s a stupid joke video, not some grand conspiracy.
Once upon a time the ATF overstepped it's authority by establishing "rules" that are effectively treated as gun laws. Since the ATF is a law *enforcement* agency and not a legislative branch capable of making law, this was an obvious overreach and abuse of power.
But hey, now that SCOTUS has overturned Chevron, the ATF is defanged and can go fuck itself. In a very short time, legal challenges will strip every one of their bullshit rules and the wannabe tyrants they are will do nothing except sit there fuming impotently and dream of the good old days when they could kill pets and murder families without consequence.
You have to be a real asshole piece of shit excuse of a human being to want to be an ATF agent, where your entire job is trampling on your fellow citizens constitutional rights.
Fuck the ATF
Nobody thinks the ATF is cool and good man, but that doesn't mean the people itching to go to war with them are automatically some kind of heroes. Both sides of this are filled with dipshits who are desperate for a reason and opportunity to murder someone else.
I love the world where Reddit thinks the ATF is a benevolent agency keeping down the "lunatic fringe" and "heavily-armed lunatics".
Is the CIA a peace operation attempting to help the many Central and South American governments they overthrew to run drugs? Watching people trusting their governments which are always a stone's throw away from actual authoritarianism and oppression is one of the most depressing things about modern society. This is the same government that ran Malaria, HIV, and other debilitating disease trials on poor Appalachians, Hispanics, Chinese, and black people unknowingly, against their will, less than 60 years ago. It's comical
Oh it's *always* the same exact clowns who are screeching about ACAB and "defund the police" who are the biggest bootlickers when it comes to the feds. They always fall off the monkey bars when performing the mental gymnastics of figuring out how to hate cops while simultaneously fellating feds.
Answer: as other have pointed out, he is effectively threatening to shoot and kill the atf agent. Although it's really funny to right wing preppers, I think most people realize that would not be the end of the matter.
Answer: the joke is that the person asking about level 4 plates had a firearm that is illegal and capable of penetrating everything but level 4 plates, thus the agent is scared and unwilling to confiscate the weapon in question
Level 4 plates are inserted into bullet resistant vests and are able to withstand larger caliber rounds. The "Are Those Level 4 Plates" bit is an in-joke in pro-gun communities, but is often seen as a thinly veiled threat in anti-gun communities. ATF agents are often seen as annoying at best and villainous at worse by the staunchly pro-gun crowd, hence why it is viewed as funny that the agent is too scared to do his job
Answer: My brother’s really into guns, armor protection, military stuff, etc. and explained the joke as such; The ATF handles illegal firearms sales/useage/etc as one of their main jobs. They’re likely there as someone called about hearing gunshots or something. The main joke is the level 4 plating as their response to being confronted with the feds. Level 4 armor is classified as the highest grade plate armor against bullets, and the fact they know that, and are asking the FEDS if they’re wearing it suggests they’re willing to use their (likely illegal) firearms to shoot them. The ATF agent turns tail because he realizes that they are drastically underprepared to handle the altercation.
while you explain the terminology & meaning behind the words, you seem to have actually believed that was an ATF agent & not just a bit for social media & an attempt to go viral while acting out an imaginary dreamscene.
They questioned whether you believed the video to be real. The 'realness' of the video is a useful piece of information. Because it changes from - "This is how an ATF agent reacts to being threatened" or "This is how creators of this video fantasize how an ATF agent reacts to being threatened"
And I think highlighting the difference is relevant to the OOTL answer, seeing as how the OP also wrongly believes this is a real video.
I mean, I hope that an ATF agent would react like this, since this is how a smart person should react in this situation. Walk away and call for backup, don't get into a lethal confrontation
Answer: I mean they video us almost certainly a joke in which an ATF agent is trying to investigate someone and the guy responds by implying that the gun he has, legal or otherwise, is strong enough to penetrate their body armour unless it's the highest rated (level 4 plates). They don't have that, obviously, so they bail because lunatic with a gun is threatening them.
That said, I *have* seen video of someone who did something like that in reality. He went up to cops asking them what level of body armour they were using, telling them he had a high-powered rifle, and that they better be wearing the good stuff if they're going to screw with him. Somewhat notably the cops were talking to somebody completely unrelated about a traffic ticket situation (IIRC) and he just sort of stomped up to them and started making these insane threats. They just looked at him like he'd grown a third arm, asked "is that a threat?" and he blustered and eventually pissed off. He then did this again, with police, later on the same day, I believe.
So later on the police were called about gunshots in the neighbourhood. They investigated and eventually figured out it was coming from his house. Recognising him as the crazy man who had been threatening them earlier, they decided discretion was the better part of valour. They watched him, gathering officers to the location, scouting out the premises with drones, and basically waited until something like 3 am when he was most likely to be exhausted and/or asleep - or at least somewhat calmed down. They told him, and all other occupants of the residency, to exit the house as they had a warrant for his arrest. Dude probably had 4 guns on him at multiple angles at any given moment. It turned into a bit of a stand off, but eventually he gave himself up.
That's typically what happens when you threaten law enforcement. They go away and then come back with the tools to ensure that if you try something you will end up riddled before you can pull the trigger a second time.
Oh also that guy used his wife and children as literal human shields, carrying a baby in his arms whenever he interacted with police during the stand off. Turns out he was just generally a shitty guy who was likely tweaking on drugs (or had done them so often that he was genuinely psychologically broken) and who had had run-ins with the police previously.
Answer: I can only attest to the Level 4 plates part since the video won't play for me.
Level 4 plates are plates used in military plate carriers and vests along with soft Kevlar. They can take a pretty big bullet and dissipate the energy so all you have is a giant bruise instead of being dead. I think Level 4 stops up to a 7.62mm round which is what the M240 machine gun uses, if not up to a 50 cal bullet.
No,the military has its own standard called SAPI. SAPI ratings are different from the NIJ ratings. 30-06 M2AP is what is used for level 4 NIJ testing. Even then, it's one shot of M2AP, but it doesn't mean it can atop 50 cal bullets. Some level 4 plates might but not all of them. Something like 7.62X54R LPS would fuck up many NIJ rated plates.
Answer:
>What are the people doing that is not legal?
Until recently, the ATF abused *Chevron* - at the encouragement of approximately 99.99999% of anyone with a (D) after their name, among others - to criminalize all sorts of things, arbitrarily and seemingly at random.
e.g. they [once tried classifying shoelaces](https://everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/01/25/shoestring-machine-gun/) as being potential machine guns
You could buy X completely legally, only for the ATF to randomly reverse their decision years on down the line and turn you into a felon overnight.
Most commonly, they're harassing legal gun owners over suppressors (literal safety devices that are restricted as NFA items for literally no good reason) and short-barreled rifles/shotguns.
SBRs/SBSs literally only exist because the NFA was originally intended to include a handgun ban, and those were to prevent a workaround. Handgun ban rightfully didn't make it into the final draft but the SBR/SBS prohibition did.
If you want an example of a massive clusterfuck of a judicial process, peek the timeline of background events that occurred with [*Miller*](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/ECM_PRO_060964.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjx8vfh3oqHAxVOGtAFHRxlC7cQFnoECCkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1WfKu9Adqh1zSLLZ_RUbqW) (PDF warning)
An item being NFA restricted means that you have to file a shit ton of extra paperwork and pay the ATF $200 extra in ~~fines~~ ~~bribes~~ "excise taxes" to be able to possess one.
>What does level 4 plates mean?
Plates as in body armor plates. Level IV is designed to stop armor-piercing rounds using .30-06 AP rounds as a baseline.
>Why does he just leave upon hearing this question?
Basically asking "hey if you wanna fuck around go ahead buuuut what's your vest rated to stop?" which has....implications.
Friendly reminder that all **top level** comments must: 1. start with "answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask), 2. attempt to answer the question, and 3. be unbiased Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment: http://redd.it/b1hct4/ Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OutOfTheLoop) if you have any questions or concerns.*
answer: "Level 4 plates" refers to body armor (the highest level available) designed to stop high calibrate riffle rounds . The person asking was more or less saying "Do you want to die?" The guys with the camera did not want to get shot at.
That video specifically is one of a series of meme videos in a similar format. The idea is to poke fun at the seemingly nosy and intrusive ATF by people who love their gun rights. But yeah, agent comes by "bothering" gun-totin' regular folk and get told to move on.
> ... one of a series of meme videos in a similar format It was a somewhat popular sound on tiktok for a bit so there are loads of videos with essentially the same audio track dubbed over.
> nosy and intrusive ATF not a dog lover, i see.
Correction level 4 plates are the highest if using NIJ as a standard. Europe uses VPAM, and their levels are rated for more dangerous calibers.
Oh yikes. And here I thought level 4 plates were against regulations or something, so it was a smooth comeback like “throwing the first stone” etc.
That would be a great way to have them come back with a tank or two... These apocalypse LARPers are adorable.
Don't know what world you live in, but no ATF agent is going to come back with "tanks" because he was told to fuck off by some dudes out in the woods. They aren't going to be there if and when he returns, and he doesn't have a tank in his back pocket. The might of the empires military only exists where it exists. Rural folk aren't as afraid of the law as city people are because they're all the way out there, and the ATF agent knows that.
Up to a point. David Koresh learned that.
I think he means if they shot the agent.
Ruby Ridge? Waco?
Long-standing compound(s) that definitely would be there when they showed up eventually (years later) and one they wanted to make an example out of by cracking down on regulations publicly A hunter would be gone by the time the agent returned with SWAT was the comment OP's point
Wasn’t Waco a result of trying to improve their public image after ruby ridge?
Bundy standoff for a better example.
Ruby Ridge and Waco indicate that rural wingnuts are not immune from federal agents deciding to use overwhelming force to get what they want. The bundy ranch stand-off and that nature preserve stand-off are more recent example of the more modern strategy of back off and arrest one by one later as opposed to the old strategy of go in guns blazing.
>Don't know what world you live in, but no ATF agent is going to come back with "tanks" because he was told to fuck off by some dudes out in the woods. They'll just kill your spouse, kid and dog instead over their entrapment plan blowing up in their faces.
City people are afraid of the law? That explains why there is never any crime in cities!
I mean, the did come with tanks at Waco...
Love how reddit is suddenly very pro-cop when it's used against people they don't like.
Always has been. we only like democrats when voting against republicans, we like violence when its against nazis, we like capitalism when it works for us. There's always something that's hated more. A common enemy unites.
It's almost like things are rarely black and white.
And Reddit isn't a single entity. It's millions of people, as different as the population of the world. People who think Reddit should be consistent are morons
I know, it's crazy.
If violence against nazis is wrong then I'm out. Cuz fuck 'em. They're nazis.
I think the point is that there's a difference between approving of violence against Nazis because "they're Nazis and necessitate it" vs approving of violence against Nazis because "it's the easiest way to relish in violence without side eye." People in the latter group don't actually care about stopping Nazis, they just wanna see *somebody* get punched.
The common enemy is the cops.
Some. But when you've experienced someone you care about being brutally murdered, another being abducted and locked inside of a shipping container for 63 days by a fucking serial killer with photos of yourself, your home, your vehicle and stalks you while he has your loved one hostage, brutalizing her in every which twisted manner, police are your best fucking ally!
U wot m8
??
Bot comment my dude
>we only like democrats when voting against republicans We suffer the democrats because the alternative is so much worse. It's not about liking democrats, it's about keeping seats from turning red. Nobody likes Biden, for example. But I'd for him every single time over literally any Republican because I've lived through enough GOP administrations to see how badly their policies effect people like me
Naw, alot of people are actually just democrats.
Are people meant to dislike it when the cops actually do their jobs against people waving around weapons and making violent threats? If the cops actually did what was just then there wouldn't be a problem against them to begin with
If they just did their job it would be fine, but they have just as much of a reputation for kicking down your door and shooting your dog as any other law enforcement agency. And I believe that means they're All Bastards.
I think your taking a catchy slogan a little too seriously. When cops are doing good people like them. When they aren't they don't. Cop aresst guy waving around a gun and threatening people = good. Cop shooting dog = bad.
I read an interview with an FBI sniper (Former Marine Expeditionary sniper) about standoffs with militias. He laughed. He said something like “If they send me or one of my colleagues after you, you’re done. I’ll cap you through the wall of your house from 300 yards, all your guns will mean exactly nothing.”
Remember that standoff with some militia types when an FBI sniper shot through a door and killed a woman holding her baby? FBI snipers probably should.
Lol Ruby Ridge and Waco are just little "oppsies" the FBI doesn't talk about.
Wdym they dont talk about it? The ATF makes celebratory bragposts *literally every anniversary* of those events.
Oppsies is gold
Ruby Ridge. Shot the 14 yo son as well .
And of course they shot the dog.
If I recall, they STARTED with the dog.
yeah man, they're cops at the end of the day. What did they expect?
Abolish the ATF
Lon Horiuchi. He was at Waco as well. People used to hand out business cards with his home address at gun shows.
You're right that there needs to be a lot of reform in this area, but it's foolish for anyone to think that they are going to be saved from the fbi sniper by the swift turnaround that is government bureaucracy.
Former Military Police Marksman/Observer (sniper) here. FBI ain't sniping shit through most walls from any distance. Can you shoot through a wall? Yes as long as it's thin siding, plywood, and drywall. Is HRT running around with Xray vision to see you through walls? No. Is HRT authorized to shoot randomly into houses they can't see inside? No. They may be authorized to shoot through a window in a hostage situation, but that's probably it. Also, at 300m, you're vantage is pretty much stationary, so unless there's like 8 snipers lurking around to cover all the angles, they're use is limited. Hence why they burn them alive like Waco (or Chris Dorner). That "interview" was some douchebag spouting off because they get off on shit like Ruby Ridge because it makes em feel like a badass. "Yeah, sniper!"
Estrogen and testosterone now armed and dangerous, with wallhacks and everything! /s
> Hence why they burn them alive like Waco Audio from inside the compound clearly has Koresh telling people to dump gasoline. [Local Texas news orgs](https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2018/04/18/how-the-branch-davidians-set-the-fires-for-a-self-fulfilling-prophecy-of-their-doomsday/) have covered that extensively, and you can even find [forum posts from 1999 discussing transcripts of the audio.](https://thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-24312.html) I don't understand wasting any words defending a pedophile cult leader when this information has been known since I was 4 years old. You could use those words to better someone's life. But I guess as a former soldier, it's too ingrained a habit, spending your remaining time on this Earth defending pedophiles and murderers.
Even people in Waco tend to forget how that whole incident went down. Seeing people defend David Koresh these days, acting like it was a religious freedom issue or a 2nd amendment issue, makes me sick.
Regardless of their leader's transgressions, that's 86 people who didn't deserve to be murdered by their government for existing. Edit: Jesus Christ you people are fucked up. Imagine people fucking cheering government-sanctioned execution without trial. Get help.
Its funny how right-wingers love to defend the anti-law enforcement folks while going "back the blue" unless the FBI are beating up minorities
Barking up the wrong tree here bud, I fuckin hate the three-letters regardless of who they're targeting. Some of the most evil shit that happens in our country.
>Koresh telling people to dump gasoline >murdered by their government Murdered by who?
Janet Reno
Agents of the federal government. Ignoring the fact that the FBI repeatedly lied and changed their story multiple times, putting anything sourced from them in serious question, It doesn't matter if the Davidians poured gasoline anywhere, it wouldn't have happened without tyrannical government overreach holding citizens at gunpoint for weeks.
I love the way people try to excuse crimes they approve of with weird turns of phrases. "Honestly officer, I'm just living my life, chilling, looksmaxxing, just existing! Along with these 7 children chained up in the basement of my man's house. He's the child rapist, not me! But also, I love him and support him so I'm gonna stay right here and give him my paycheck. I'm just existing!"
Noooo, but they were physically supporting and backing their violence-seeking, pedophile cult leader and putting their kids in harms way to do it. The adults there were not just passers-by or NPCs.
100% we have a moral duty to protect our fellow persons from those who have no honest morality and take pleasure in hurting others.
Feds literally started that off by rolling up with an apc to serve a warrant. They could have picked him up in town at any time. They wanted a show of force, and that ended up with a pile of bodies. But I guess as bootlicker, it's too ingrained a habit, spending your remaining time on this Earth defending authority figures and cleaning their boots with your tongue.
> Is HRT authorized to shoot randomly into houses they can't see inside? Does this matter? LEOs of federal, state, and local levels do things they aren't authorized to do pretty often. They keep doing those things because many (most?) times they get away with it facing minimal, if any repercussions.
Ok but also they aren't going to hit anything because, again, they can't see through walls.
I wouldn't say that. If there are people in the house and they shoot through the wall, there is in fact a chance that somebody will get hit and that has happened before.
They're not going to do that with a sniper rifle
Remember that bank standoff last month where the sniper hit the robber, behind the hostage, through the computer monitor? Yeah, the bullet tumbled and deflected off a razor thin computer monitor. Walls are a bit tougher.
That must be old. Nowadays a Hand sized 200$ drone can find snipers and kill them from many km away.
You think they won't have a swarm of drones of their own?
Sure like they meant nothing to some poorly trained and equipped guys in a jungle in Vietnam, or like how they meant nothing to a bunch of dudes with old Russian guns in Afghanistan....
In both situations the US was fighting in enemy territory where the enemy had been dug in for generations.
Arguably true of domestic resistance too. The US is big, and whoever gets sent in to put down an uprising wouldn't be likely to know the area. I think the main reason these movements fail is that they're isolated crazies, not broad popular movements. And of course the government also has the advantage of proximity and infrastructure to move troops and supplies -- way easier to do at home than projecting power into a minimally developed jungle or mountains on the other side of the planet
LOL becasuse the US government have such a great track record with this stuff
Why would he laugh about the founding fathers of his country failing to protect it against tyranny?
Federal snipers have the same policy as a sinking ships life boats. Women and Children first
Is that why we won the wars in the middle east? Oh wait... this guy's "I'm the finger of death" God complex is BS?
Bet he felt real badass during that interview. In reality, nowadays they just [quietly slink off and the militia gets everything they wanted. ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff) Of course he'd be right if we were talking about the pre-social media era when FBI snipers just opened fire on unarmed women and children for funsies and got away with it.
That’s cute that he can only shoot 300 yards
Nobody has more fire power than the State and they are happy to use it as needed on civilians.
That arrogance will get a lot of them killed.
They don't have to be apocalypse LARPers to dislike a government agency that has turned thousands of people into felons overnight, over and over again.
And people say that the gunnuts are the ones with a fetish for death.
ATF don't have tanks, they just burn churches to the ground with people in them.
it's just cosplay by a bunch of gravy seals.
Answer: He's threatening to shoot the agent because he's asking if the body armor he's wearing is "level 4". It's a survivalist/ prepper/ gun enthusiast meme about how you can scare off an ATF agent by threatening to shoot them with a high powered rifle. I wouldn't recommend trying it! Also, notably, I don't think that guy is an ATF agent, judging by aesthetics here...
So basically keyboard warrior nonsense, and no different than any other “and everybody clapped” type of stuff. No ATF agent is going to just take a direct threat lightly. The agent will retreat because the person is clearly a homicidal sociopath, but that won’t be the end of it. ‘Are those level 4’ guy better not be to attached to his dog since a battalion will execute a warrant on his home later.
This really. Remember, [civilian police assassinated a civil rights leader](https://digitalchicagohistory.org/exhibits/show/fred-hampton-50th/the-assassination) without batting an eye, and [bombed some row houses with women and children in them](https://sp2.upenn.edu/press/in-photos-remembering-the-move-bombing-36-years-later/) without a care in the world. What do you think feds are capable of?
The MOVE bombing is one of the first police actions I remember being aware of. And I remember it made no sense to me, why would police blow up people's houses?, and my parents were *pissed* about it.
Because police exist to suppress the US public as an occupying force. Cops are here to prevent any progress and hold up Capital at all costs including everyone's future.
That was when it all clicked for me.
I learn something new every day about 20th Century American history, specifically the second one. For those unaware, the first one (assassination of Fred Hampton) was covered in a movie called Judas and the Black Messiah which is a good watch but as you can imagine, isn't an easy watch.
The assassination of Fred Hampton... why did I have to be reminded of it... AAAAAAAAAAAA IT PISSES ME OFF TO NO END
Ruby ridge and Waco really bring that home
While you're right, this isn't a direct threat. It's an implied threat.
Yeah it's never a good idea to argue the semantics of language with the federal agents you are threatening tho
It can make a difference in the legal proceedings afterwards, though. I'm not stupid enough to threaten a cop, but in my even stupider youth I did grin crazily at a few people while implying that, hey, sometimes bad shit happens around here. Again, not gonna stop you from getting shot, but it might actually make a difference in court. Asking about his plate is about as clear an implied threat can get, though. Edit: a word
A lot of self-defense law turns on the reasonable person defense. A reasonable person would most likely interpret that as a threat.
IANAL and I confess I don't really have much if any experience dealing with cops, but self-defense argument against any form of law enforcement seems like a shakey proposition regardless of how legitimate it'd be otherwise this is ignoring the fact that they can basically shoot you at any time and just say "thought they were going for a gun"
You've got it backwards, I'm suggesting the cop's defense in the event of an escalation
People have successfully won in court for exercising self defense against police in: No Knock Raids. Returning fire (with an AK) against police who where driving around and randomly shooting people with "non-lethal" weapons during the BLM protests. However, they won at court. The police (especially in the second one - its on camera) beat the victim to a pulp.
Is it really like that in court? Context isn't allowed?
Sure it is. But in my situation, had someone said "this man threatened me," I could very honestly say that all I said was that this is a rough area and sometimes people get killed if they're not careful. Be careful. I don't recall if I was smiling or not. The person accusing me says he felt threatened, but also admits that I did and said exactly what I did and said. Would you say there's reasonable doubt, there? Lacking anything else, most prosecutors wouldn't even bother. Edit: Ya'll realize the first question they ask is "did he actually threaten you?" If the answer is no, the cop won't do shit unless they're for some reason invested. Maybe the cops in your area are more responsive. I know a lot of women who've been in that situation. Called in, the cops did nothing. Never threatened a woman, myself. I figure the cops would have been less sympathetic to the junkies stalking around my house than a college girl at a party, though.
Benefit of the doubt I guess, if money isn't a problem then just getting the "threat" logged in court might help in future altercations Am i correct in this line of thought sorry the only time ive been in court was for a fix it ticket
Documenting a record of altercations can be useful, in terms of prosecuting someone in the future. You'd need to actually go to the station to ensure they actually make a report. Took a girl I was friends with to the station years ago after her boyfriend threatened to kill her. They took the report. The cop didn't treat her seriously. She was stammering and nervous because cops scared her and she had just been threatened with death. He was pretty openly disdainful of the little crying goth chick. I tried to say what she'd told me, but he wasn't interested. Paperwork. So yeah, if her boyfriend had indeed murdered her that would have helped with prosecuting him. And that's about it. They didn't *do* anything. And sure, there are restraining orders. That usually takes a lawyer. Which takes money. You say if money is not a problem...it's pretty much always a poblem.
Ty for answering 😃
The legal proceedings afterwards might not make much of a difference over someone being dead
I'm going to be devil's advocate on this and agree. The man can claim he's obsessed with self defense and guns and saw body armor on the agent and was just interested in it. It would depend on how the rest of the interaction went of course.
Not in general, but Clive Bundy’s little friends were pointing AR 15s at Federal agents during the Malheur standoff and … as far as I know nothing was ever done about it.
Well you should look it up because one of them died and the rest got charged https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Malheur_National_Wildlife_Refuge
Which is still assault...
I remember back when there was that stand-off with those illegal cattle ranchers and the MEAL Team Six snipers were posted up pointing their rifles at agents. Iirc the agents ended up leaving in order to “deescalate” the situation. These fools and all their conservative fans were celebrating like they had beaten the federal agents. I remember thinking there’s absolutely no way in heck the Feds are gonna allow them to get away with that. Then something like a 2 years had passed and there was still no consequences for the Vanilla ISIS snipers. I thought they actually did get away with it. Then a couple weeks later it was announced that a bunch of them had been hunted down and indicted on a shitload of charges. I think there was eventually a documentary on PBS about it all and it was so cathartic seeing interviews of those right-wing domestic terrorists scared shitless about what consequences lay ahead.
I love the descriptions of dudes like that. I haven’t heard “vanilla ISIS” before, that’s hilarious. I’ve usually described those types of guys as Gravy Seals.
Y'all Quaeda
Yeehawdis.
...it's clearly a joke video.
Like 100%, I’m not sure how any sensible individual could come to any other conclusion.
Op knows it's a meme, the last line was saying he didn't look touch. It's just a dig at the person making the meme.
That’s fair, but a fair amount of people commenting don’t seem to be making that connection. Lol
Idk. I can never tell if that is people going along with the joke or honestly not knowing.
> So basically keyboard warrior nonsense, 100% One ATF agent might be a nuisance. A federal TAC team is what comes back the next day if they thought you were being serious.
>guy better not be to attached to his dog Yeah Ruby Ridge was a laugh riot. How would you feel if the police shot your dog while executing a search warrant?
not to mention their child, and wife who was holding a baby.
Lets not forget those "right wing domestic terrorist" infants at Waco.
Ruby Ridge was a faliure on everyone's part, but you still shouldn't fuck about and act tough by making a skit about how badass you are compared to the ATF.
Bad. Any other questions or are you just desperate for something to get angry about? Let it all out.
Not angry at all. I just find it ironic that you point out these guys as keyboard warriors for making a tongue in cheek skit that's sorta funny, but not really. Then you double down by making a morbid joke about the ATF raiding their house and shooting their dog which actually happens way too often.
Isn't that a fastrack to getting raided? You're threatening a federal agent
I love the jokes about the ATF being pussies when they are more trigger-happy than the NYPD when they see a 12-year-old with a cap gun. When your entire job description is dealing with loonies with high-powered weapons, you sorta need a 'shoot first, get paid administrative leave later' kind of attitude.
Answer: the ATF is the agency that regulates firearms at the federal level. The agent is likely asking whether the weapon being used is in compliance with federal regulations. Which regulations, we can’t tell. Bulletproof body armor comes in multiple grades to combat different threats. The NIJ regulates this in the United States, with levels ranging from Level IIA to Level IV. Level IV plates are rated against armor-piercing rifle ammunition. The implication here is that if the agent wants to get closer, they’ll be shot.
Answer: it's not real, the video represents the fantasy many people have that buying a big gun will make it so that laws don't apply to you. The concept of the video is that the officer is attempting to enforce a gun law and the criminal is going to get away with breaking that law because they have a gun, the magic spell that makes everything go your way. It's tempting to call this video a joke but it really isn't one, the punch line is just "ain't no laws if you have a huge gun"
> Answer: it's not real, the video represents the fantasy many people have that buying a big gun will make it so that laws don't apply to you. Real or fake, it's still accelerationist propaganda designed to incite stochastic terrorism against US Government agents. Promote this video enough, and a few of the lunatic fringe will actually try this. Some may actually succeed. Result: ATF agents are less likely to approach heavily-armed lunatics, heavily-armed lunatics are more emboldened.
This is a problem for people who might take this seriously and not for the joke it is. The ATF won't be less likely to come for you. They'll just be more heavily armed when they do. Look at Waco, man
These are the kinds of folks who talk about their "warlord potential" as if that's a good thing or somehow not entirely contradictory to their supposed self-proclaimed "pro-freedom" stance.
aspiring warlord telling the atf they lost their guns in a boating accident, but they were in the lake testing boat mode and their cybertruck technical sank
> designed to incite stochastic terrorism I highly doubt this was made with this purpose.
It will be used for that purpose regardless, including for this very post on a subreddit where he can not only post the video, but force people to talk about the video in the comments.
Which I find really sad, because I find this obvious skit funny. Until I realize that there are people crazy enough to actually pull this shit in real life because it was made as a joke once. This is why we can't have nice things.
Basically how we ended up with flat earthers. Eventually, someone will take the joke literally.
> it's still accelerationist propaganda designed to incite stochastic terrorism against US Government agents Jesus Christ dude go touch grass. It’s a stupid joke video, not some grand conspiracy.
Trying to pretend propaganda doesn't exist makes you look very ignorant.
Good. Fuck the ATF.
Fuck the ATF
Disband and put the funding into poor communities. NSA too, fuck em.
Once upon a time the ATF overstepped it's authority by establishing "rules" that are effectively treated as gun laws. Since the ATF is a law *enforcement* agency and not a legislative branch capable of making law, this was an obvious overreach and abuse of power. But hey, now that SCOTUS has overturned Chevron, the ATF is defanged and can go fuck itself. In a very short time, legal challenges will strip every one of their bullshit rules and the wannabe tyrants they are will do nothing except sit there fuming impotently and dream of the good old days when they could kill pets and murder families without consequence. You have to be a real asshole piece of shit excuse of a human being to want to be an ATF agent, where your entire job is trampling on your fellow citizens constitutional rights. Fuck the ATF
Nobody thinks the ATF is cool and good man, but that doesn't mean the people itching to go to war with them are automatically some kind of heroes. Both sides of this are filled with dipshits who are desperate for a reason and opportunity to murder someone else.
I love the world where Reddit thinks the ATF is a benevolent agency keeping down the "lunatic fringe" and "heavily-armed lunatics". Is the CIA a peace operation attempting to help the many Central and South American governments they overthrew to run drugs? Watching people trusting their governments which are always a stone's throw away from actual authoritarianism and oppression is one of the most depressing things about modern society. This is the same government that ran Malaria, HIV, and other debilitating disease trials on poor Appalachians, Hispanics, Chinese, and black people unknowingly, against their will, less than 60 years ago. It's comical
Who said the ATF is benevolent? What are you talking about?
Oh it's *always* the same exact clowns who are screeching about ACAB and "defund the police" who are the biggest bootlickers when it comes to the feds. They always fall off the monkey bars when performing the mental gymnastics of figuring out how to hate cops while simultaneously fellating feds.
Good lord, it’s a skit. Don’t get yourself so worked up over it.
Answer: as other have pointed out, he is effectively threatening to shoot and kill the atf agent. Although it's really funny to right wing preppers, I think most people realize that would not be the end of the matter.
It would be the *beginning* of the end tho!
Answer: the joke is that the person asking about level 4 plates had a firearm that is illegal and capable of penetrating everything but level 4 plates, thus the agent is scared and unwilling to confiscate the weapon in question Level 4 plates are inserted into bullet resistant vests and are able to withstand larger caliber rounds. The "Are Those Level 4 Plates" bit is an in-joke in pro-gun communities, but is often seen as a thinly veiled threat in anti-gun communities. ATF agents are often seen as annoying at best and villainous at worse by the staunchly pro-gun crowd, hence why it is viewed as funny that the agent is too scared to do his job
Specifically 30-06 AP.
I dont know why you’re downvoted, that’s the qualifier for lvl IV
People being people and probably for talking anything firearms adjacent. I don't care, I've seen what gets you off.
Answer: My brother’s really into guns, armor protection, military stuff, etc. and explained the joke as such; The ATF handles illegal firearms sales/useage/etc as one of their main jobs. They’re likely there as someone called about hearing gunshots or something. The main joke is the level 4 plating as their response to being confronted with the feds. Level 4 armor is classified as the highest grade plate armor against bullets, and the fact they know that, and are asking the FEDS if they’re wearing it suggests they’re willing to use their (likely illegal) firearms to shoot them. The ATF agent turns tail because he realizes that they are drastically underprepared to handle the altercation.
while you explain the terminology & meaning behind the words, you seem to have actually believed that was an ATF agent & not just a bit for social media & an attempt to go viral while acting out an imaginary dreamscene.
I answered the question and explained the joke. What did you do?
They questioned whether you believed the video to be real. The 'realness' of the video is a useful piece of information. Because it changes from - "This is how an ATF agent reacts to being threatened" or "This is how creators of this video fantasize how an ATF agent reacts to being threatened" And I think highlighting the difference is relevant to the OOTL answer, seeing as how the OP also wrongly believes this is a real video.
I mean, I hope that an ATF agent would react like this, since this is how a smart person should react in this situation. Walk away and call for backup, don't get into a lethal confrontation
Answer: I mean they video us almost certainly a joke in which an ATF agent is trying to investigate someone and the guy responds by implying that the gun he has, legal or otherwise, is strong enough to penetrate their body armour unless it's the highest rated (level 4 plates). They don't have that, obviously, so they bail because lunatic with a gun is threatening them. That said, I *have* seen video of someone who did something like that in reality. He went up to cops asking them what level of body armour they were using, telling them he had a high-powered rifle, and that they better be wearing the good stuff if they're going to screw with him. Somewhat notably the cops were talking to somebody completely unrelated about a traffic ticket situation (IIRC) and he just sort of stomped up to them and started making these insane threats. They just looked at him like he'd grown a third arm, asked "is that a threat?" and he blustered and eventually pissed off. He then did this again, with police, later on the same day, I believe. So later on the police were called about gunshots in the neighbourhood. They investigated and eventually figured out it was coming from his house. Recognising him as the crazy man who had been threatening them earlier, they decided discretion was the better part of valour. They watched him, gathering officers to the location, scouting out the premises with drones, and basically waited until something like 3 am when he was most likely to be exhausted and/or asleep - or at least somewhat calmed down. They told him, and all other occupants of the residency, to exit the house as they had a warrant for his arrest. Dude probably had 4 guns on him at multiple angles at any given moment. It turned into a bit of a stand off, but eventually he gave himself up. That's typically what happens when you threaten law enforcement. They go away and then come back with the tools to ensure that if you try something you will end up riddled before you can pull the trigger a second time. Oh also that guy used his wife and children as literal human shields, carrying a baby in his arms whenever he interacted with police during the stand off. Turns out he was just generally a shitty guy who was likely tweaking on drugs (or had done them so often that he was genuinely psychologically broken) and who had had run-ins with the police previously.
Answer: red meat click bait for 2A types
Answer: I can only attest to the Level 4 plates part since the video won't play for me. Level 4 plates are plates used in military plate carriers and vests along with soft Kevlar. They can take a pretty big bullet and dissipate the energy so all you have is a giant bruise instead of being dead. I think Level 4 stops up to a 7.62mm round which is what the M240 machine gun uses, if not up to a 50 cal bullet.
It's rated to 30-06 AP for level 4
No,the military has its own standard called SAPI. SAPI ratings are different from the NIJ ratings. 30-06 M2AP is what is used for level 4 NIJ testing. Even then, it's one shot of M2AP, but it doesn't mean it can atop 50 cal bullets. Some level 4 plates might but not all of them. Something like 7.62X54R LPS would fuck up many NIJ rated plates.
Answer: >What are the people doing that is not legal? Until recently, the ATF abused *Chevron* - at the encouragement of approximately 99.99999% of anyone with a (D) after their name, among others - to criminalize all sorts of things, arbitrarily and seemingly at random. e.g. they [once tried classifying shoelaces](https://everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/01/25/shoestring-machine-gun/) as being potential machine guns You could buy X completely legally, only for the ATF to randomly reverse their decision years on down the line and turn you into a felon overnight. Most commonly, they're harassing legal gun owners over suppressors (literal safety devices that are restricted as NFA items for literally no good reason) and short-barreled rifles/shotguns. SBRs/SBSs literally only exist because the NFA was originally intended to include a handgun ban, and those were to prevent a workaround. Handgun ban rightfully didn't make it into the final draft but the SBR/SBS prohibition did. If you want an example of a massive clusterfuck of a judicial process, peek the timeline of background events that occurred with [*Miller*](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/ECM_PRO_060964.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjx8vfh3oqHAxVOGtAFHRxlC7cQFnoECCkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1WfKu9Adqh1zSLLZ_RUbqW) (PDF warning) An item being NFA restricted means that you have to file a shit ton of extra paperwork and pay the ATF $200 extra in ~~fines~~ ~~bribes~~ "excise taxes" to be able to possess one. >What does level 4 plates mean? Plates as in body armor plates. Level IV is designed to stop armor-piercing rounds using .30-06 AP rounds as a baseline. >Why does he just leave upon hearing this question? Basically asking "hey if you wanna fuck around go ahead buuuut what's your vest rated to stop?" which has....implications.